Re: Stus-List Ox meets Practical Sailor

[bobmor99 . via CnC-List]

I'm not sure there was a single article about the 33-1. I think David's
boat was used as an experimental platform to try out different products.
Could be wrong. I recycled my old PS issues a few years ago.
--Bob M
Ox 33-1
Jax, FL

On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 7:49 PM, Barbara Hickson Fellers via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Anyone have link to the PS article on David Paine's 33-1 of 25 yrs ago?
>
>
> Barbara L. Hickson
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Changing weight distribution in Landfall 38

[Robert Boyer via CnC-List]

Fred:

The existing battery location in the engine compartment can hold 2 
batteries--one can be the starting bank and the other part of the house bank.  
Then if I make 2 or 3 batteries located somewhere forward, they could be 
dedicated to the house bank (and I could somehow isolate them from starting 
loads) through switching.

Bob

Bob Boyer
S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
1983 C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
email: dainyr...@icloud.com 
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com

"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply 
messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame

> On Nov 19, 2015, at 11:59 AM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Bob — I would consider sizing the wiring aft from the forward batteries to 
> allow at least 100 amps, with a maximum 10% voltage drop.  This would require 
> at least 4AWG cabling from under the v-berth to the electrical panel aft; 
> better would be 2AWG, which would allow you to pull 30 amps with a 3% voltage 
> drop.  Don’t forget that you’ll need a battery switch located very close to 
> the bank under the v-berth; and I would also put a 100-amp breaker (a 
> 285-Series surface mount would do the trick: 
> https://www.bluesea.com/products/7187/285-Series_Circuit_Breaker_-_Surface_Mount_100A)
>  after the battery switch to protect the long wiring running aft.
> 
> The biggest issue with doing this is that trying to start your engine by 
> switching over to the forward bank is most likely not going to work, as your 
> starter wants more current than your wiring would be sized for.  Trying to 
> upsize the wiring to accommodate this would be VERY expensive, and not ideal 
> in any case.  If you move two batteries forward and keep two aft, basically 
> splitting your house bank into two banks, you’d have a better chance using 
> the aft bank as an emergency engine start source; but your wiring for 
> charging and selection is going to be more complicated.
> 
> Does this help at all, or just set you up for more questions?   :^)
> 
> — Fred
> 
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
> 
>> On Nov 19, 2015, at 10:24 AM, Robert Boyer via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I am equipping my boat for 8 months per year of cruising in the Bahamas.  I 
>> have added a 19-gallon auxiliary diesel tank where my holding tank was 
>> located (under the navigation seat) which adds weight aft.  I currently have 
>> 4 group 27 batteries which will be eventually upgraded to Group 31's--these 
>> also are located aft.
>> 
>> I have been considering moving 2 or 3 batteries from the aft cockpit locker 
>> to some dead space under the v-berth.  This would take some weight from the 
>> aft and add it forward.  (My boat currently sits about 2" high at the bow 
>> and maybe 1 inch low at the stern with no one aboard but full fuel tanks.)
>> 
>> I could configure the batteries such that the new forward bank could be the 
>> house bank and the starting bank (which I could probably reduce to 1 or 2 
>> batteries) could remain aft.  My problem is sizing the cables that would run 
>> from the forward batteries to the aft controls.  As I see it, these cables 
>> would never carry more than 30 amps (maximum charging from my solar panels) 
>> unless I needed them for starting (in the event of a dead starting battery).
>> 
>> Does anyone have any comments or suggestions on this matter?
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> Bob Boyer
>> S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
>> 1983 C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
>> email: dainyr...@icloud.com 
>> blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
> 
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Re: Stus-List Changing weight distribution in Landfall 38

[ed vanderkruk via CnC-List]

Technically vapors are an issue. All battery types - wet/sealed/gel/AGM -
are subject to ABYC venting guidelines. There are some solutions - venting
the battery enclosure or having vented caps for wet cell directed overboard
somehow.

Ed
On Nov 19, 2015 12:50 PM, "Robert Boyer via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> I DO use AGMs--so, vapors are not an issue.  I have some space just
> forward of the mast under the settee but close to the boat's centerline
> that might work for battery storage--I have to check out the dimensions but
> this would remove weight aft and add it close to the center of gravity.
>
> Bob
>
> Bob Boyer
> S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
> 1983 C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
> email: dainyr...@icloud.com 
> blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
>
> "There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply
> messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame
>
> On Nov 19, 2015, at 11:54 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> as you said, the current from the house batteries should never be high, so
> the wires should not be an issue. However, if you calculate your load at 30
> A and select appropriate gauge of the wire (for distance), make sure that
> you install an appropriate fuse (probably not larger than 50 A) (I would do
> it right on the terminal, but ABYC says, within 6 or 7 in from the
> terminal) to protect that wire. Such fuse would probably allow for one
> quick start of the motor (it would not allow for cranking a cranky motor).
> But if you want to be able to use your house batteries for cranking, you
> have to allow for at least 80 – 100 A in that cable (i.e. appropriate
> gauge). Keep in mind that if you install bigger cable, your voltage loss
> would be less, so you would have more energy available to you lights and
> instruments (instead of heating the cabin).
>
> One other thought. I am not sure if putting batteries under the V-berth is
> the best idea. As much as you could, you should avoid placing heavy objects
> far away from the centre of gravity. In heavy weather the heavy bow would
> be your enemy, not a friend.
>
> And finally, at least theoretically, you should not install the normal
> lead-acid batteries in the cabin (where they are not vented directly
> outside). If you want to install batteries below, you should use the gel or
> AGM batteries. This, in turn, leads to a more complex charging system
> (especially, if you are going to use AGMs).
>
> just a few ideas to consider
>
> Marek
> 1994 C270, “Legato”
> Ottawa, ON
>
>
> *From:* Robert Boyer via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 19, 2015 11:24 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Robert Boyer 
> *Subject:* Stus-List Changing weight distribution in Landfall 38
>
> I am equipping my boat for 8 months per year of cruising in the Bahamas.
> I have added a 19-gallon auxiliary diesel tank where my holding tank was
> located (under the navigation seat) which adds weight aft.  I currently
> have 4 group 27 batteries which will be eventually upgraded to Group
> 31's--these also are located aft.
>
> I have been considering moving 2 or 3 batteries from the aft cockpit
> locker to some dead space under the v-berth.  This would take some weight
> from the aft and add it forward.  (My boat currently sits about 2" high at
> the bow and maybe 1 inch low at the stern with no one aboard but full fuel
> tanks.)
>
> I could configure the batteries such that the new forward bank could be
> the house bank and the starting bank (which I could probably reduce to 1 or
> 2 batteries) could remain aft.  My problem is sizing the cables that would
> run from the forward batteries to the aft controls.  As I see it, these
> cables would never carry more than 30 amps (maximum charging from my solar
> panels) unless I needed them for starting (in the event of a dead starting
> battery).
>
> Does anyone have any comments or suggestions on this matter?
>
> Bob
>
> Bob Boyer
> S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
> 1983 C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
> email: dainyr...@icloud.com 
> blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
>
> "There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply
> messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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> bottom of page at:
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>
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Re: Stus-List Ox meets Practical Sailor

[Sylvain Laplante via CnC-List]

Actually there is a fairly complete test of a C mkII in their September 
issue ( 5 pages, many pictures ). The boat's name is Sea Dancer.
At the end of the article there's an Editor's note:  "This review is an updated 
and expanded version of one previously published"
SylvainC MkIII

  From: bobmor99 . via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: bobmor99 . 
 Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2015 2:56 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Ox meets Practical Sailor
   
I'm not sure there was a single article about the 33-1. I think David's boat 
was used as an experimental platform to try out different products.Could be 
wrong. I recycled my old PS issues a few years ago.--Bob MOx 33-1Jax, FL
On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 7:49 PM, Barbara Hickson Fellers via CnC-List 
 wrote:

 Anyone have link to the PS article on David Paine's 33-1 of 25 yrs ago? 


Barbara L. Hickson


 

 


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Re: Stus-List Video of C 30 racing in Annapolis

[Ron Casciato via CnC-List]

Ronthink of it as a way to get a good used one if they have a lot of
them out there.I think I'm generationally challenged to be able to sail
one...

 

Ron C.

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ronald B.
Frerker via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2015 4:07 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Ronald B. Frerker
Subject: Re: Stus-List Video of C 30 racing in Annapolis

 

Imagine my disappointment, I was thinking of original C 30s.

Great video though and I hope they sell the hell out of them.  Can only help
get the name out there.

Ron

C 30-1

Wild Cheri

STL

 

 

  _  

From: Rick Brass via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Rick Brass 
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2015 9:48 AM
Subject: Stus-List Video of C 30 racing in Annapolis

 

The attached video was included in a post from a sailing TV website this
morning. I have to say I'm impressed to see so many C 30s on the line, and
the performance of the boats is impressive. Certainly not "us father's" C
And pretty athletic for this fat old man. But impressive none the less.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FxUDhhQQVo

 

Rick Brass

Imzadi  C 38 mk 2

 

 

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Stus-List Changing weight distribution in Landfall 38

[Daniel Sheer via CnC-List]

Bob,
For what it's worth, I have 5 group 31 batteries in my LF 38, one in the 
forward end of the starboard lazarette (starting battery), two under the nav 
seat (house bank 1) with the Electroscan, and two under the port quarterberth 
(house bank 2). There are two big red bank switches, one separates the two 
house banks, and on separates both of the house banks from the starter. The 
alternator and the solar panel both charge house bank 1, and there's a diode 
equivalent of an echo charger that allows the starting battery to charge even 
when it is isolated from the house banks. I recently put in a 12 gallon holding 
tank, but it is in what used to be storage just forward of the head - I don't 
have a shower. This works well. First, I find the electroscan very useful in 
the Bay, pump outs are rare, the waste is disinfected, and it's legal, at least 
for now. Far as I can tell, weight distribution is not an issue. The boat is 
quite competitive in my club as long as the bottom's clean, even though I have 
only cruising (heavy dacron) sails of less than max size. 

Dan SheerPegathy LF38Rock Creek off the Patapsco
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Re: Stus-List Article from "The Yacht" magazine sept/oct 1985

[JP Mail via CnC-List]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 19, 2015, at 6:15 PM, Jim Watts via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> If you can scan it to a PDF you could send it to Stu and he can post it on 
> the website. 
> 
> Jim Watts
> Paradigm Shift
> C 35 Mk III
> Victoria, BC
>> 

Yes, thanks. That's exactly what Stu said. It's in the works. Thx
JP 


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Re: Stus-List Changing weight distribution in Landfall 38

[Robert Boyer via CnC-List]

Thats a good idea for the rare, if ever, occasion arises.

Sent from my iPhone, Bob Boyer

> On Nov 19, 2015, at 3:27 PM, bobmor99 . via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> If it will be very rare to ever need a v-berth house battery for engine 
> starting, how about, if the need were to arise, disconnect one of the v-berth 
> batteries, take it aft, and use some jumper cables to get the engine started. 
> Bob M
> Ox 33-1
> Jax. FL
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
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> 

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Re: Stus-List Changing weight distribution in Landfall 38

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

When you add the windlass you'll have the battery!

On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 3:51 PM, Robert Boyer via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Thats a good idea for the rare, if ever, occasion arises.
>
> Sent from my iPhone, Bob Boyer
>
> > On Nov 19, 2015, at 3:27 PM, bobmor99 . via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> >
> > If it will be very rare to ever need a v-berth house battery for engine
> starting, how about, if the need were to arise, disconnect one of the
> v-berth batteries, take it aft, and use some jumper cables to get the
> engine started.
> > Bob M
> > Ox 33-1
> > Jax. FL
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> >
> > Email address:
> > CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
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> >
>
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>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Video of C 30 racing in Annapolis

[Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List]

Imagine my disappointment, I was thinking of original C 30s.Great video 
though and I hope they sell the hell out of them.  Can only help get the name 
out there.RonC 30-1Wild CheriSTL

  From: Rick Brass via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Rick Brass 
 Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2015 9:48 AM
 Subject: Stus-List Video of C 30 racing in Annapolis
   
The 
attached video was included in a post from a sailing TV website this morning. I 
have to say I’m impressed to see so many C 30s on the line, and the 
performance of the boats is impressive. Certainly not “us father’s” C And 
pretty athletic for this fat old man. But impressive none the less.  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FxUDhhQQVo  Rick BrassImzadi  C 38 mk 2

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Stus-List Article from "The Yacht" magazine sept/oct 1985

[JP Mail via CnC-List]

Found a 7 page article titled, C the Committee and the Corporate Boat. 
Interesting to me as I'm buying an '84. Any interest in me posting and if so 
what is the best way?


Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Stus-List Changing weight distribution in Landfall 38

[Robert Boyer via CnC-List]

I think ABYC is a little to conservative on this issue if that is their stance. 
 "AGM's are advantageous anyplace where you need a reliable totally sealed 
battery for safety or environmental reasons - wheelchairs, medical standby 
power, inside RV's,  computer room UPS systems, or in enclosed 
spaces in boats."

Bob

Bob Boyer
S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
1983 C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
email: dainyr...@icloud.com 
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com

"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply 
messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame

> On Nov 19, 2015, at 1:19 PM, ed vanderkruk via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Technically vapors are an issue. All battery types - wet/sealed/gel/AGM - are 
> subject to ABYC venting guidelines. There are some solutions - venting the 
> battery enclosure or having vented caps for wet cell directed overboard 
> somehow. 
> 
> Ed
> 
>> On Nov 19, 2015 12:50 PM, "Robert Boyer via CnC-List" 
>>  wrote:
>> I DO use AGMs--so, vapors are not an issue.  I have some space just forward 
>> of the mast under the settee but close to the boat's centerline that might 
>> work for battery storage--I have to check out the dimensions but this would 
>> remove weight aft and add it close to the center of gravity.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> Bob Boyer
>> S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
>> 1983 C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
>> email: dainyr...@icloud.com 
>> blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
>> 
>> "There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply 
>> messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame
>> 
>>> On Nov 19, 2015, at 11:54 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bob,
>>>  
>>> as you said, the current from the house batteries should never be high, so 
>>> the wires should not be an issue. However, if you calculate your load at 30 
>>> A and select appropriate gauge of the wire (for distance), make sure that 
>>> you install an appropriate fuse (probably not larger than 50 A) (I would do 
>>> it right on the terminal, but ABYC says, within 6 or 7 in from the 
>>> terminal) to protect that wire. Such fuse would probably allow for one 
>>> quick start of the motor (it would not allow for cranking a cranky motor). 
>>> But if you want to be able to use your house batteries for cranking, you 
>>> have to allow for at least 80 – 100 A in that cable (i.e. appropriate 
>>> gauge). Keep in mind that if you install bigger cable, your voltage loss 
>>> would be less, so you would have more energy available to you lights and 
>>> instruments (instead of heating the cabin).
>>>  
>>> One other thought. I am not sure if putting batteries under the V-berth is 
>>> the best idea. As much as you could, you should avoid placing heavy objects 
>>> far away from the centre of gravity. In heavy weather the heavy bow would 
>>> be your enemy, not a friend.
>>>  
>>> And finally, at least theoretically, you should not install the normal 
>>> lead-acid batteries in the cabin (where they are not vented directly 
>>> outside). If you want to install batteries below, you should use the gel or 
>>> AGM batteries. This, in turn, leads to a more complex charging system 
>>> (especially, if you are going to use AGMs).
>>>  
>>> just a few ideas to consider
>>>  
>>> Marek
>>> 1994 C270, “Legato”
>>> Ottawa, ON
>>>  
>>>  
>>> From: Robert Boyer via CnC-List
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2015 11:24 AM
>>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> Cc: Robert Boyer
>>> Subject: Stus-List Changing weight distribution in Landfall 38
>>>  
>>> I am equipping my boat for 8 months per year of cruising in the Bahamas.  I 
>>> have added a 19-gallon auxiliary diesel tank where my holding tank was 
>>> located (under the navigation seat) which adds weight aft.  I currently 
>>> have 4 group 27 batteries which will be eventually upgraded to Group 
>>> 31's--these also are located aft.
>>>  
>>> I have been considering moving 2 or 3 batteries from the aft cockpit locker 
>>> to some dead space under the v-berth.  This would take some weight from the 
>>> aft and add it forward.  (My boat currently sits about 2" high at the bow 
>>> and maybe 1 inch low at the stern with no one aboard but full fuel tanks.)
>>>  
>>> I could configure the batteries such that the new forward bank could be the 
>>> house bank and the starting bank (which I could probably reduce to 1 or 2 
>>> batteries) could remain aft.  My problem is sizing the cables that would 
>>> run from the forward batteries to the aft controls.  As I see it, these 
>>> cables would never carry more than 30 amps (maximum charging from my solar 
>>> panels) unless I needed them for starting (in the event of a dead starting 
>>> battery).
>>>  
>>> Does anyone have any comments or suggestions on this matter?
>>>  
>>> Bob
>>> 
>>> Bob Boyer
>>> S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
>>> 1983 C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
>>> email: dainyr...@icloud.com 
>>> blog: 

Re: Stus-List Changing weight distribution in Landfall 38

[bobmor99 . via CnC-List]

If it will be very rare to ever need a v-berth house battery for engine
starting, how about, if the need were to arise, disconnect one of the
v-berth batteries, take it aft, and use some jumper cables to get the
engine started.
Bob M
Ox 33-1
Jax. FL
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Re: Stus-List Video of C 30 racing in Annapolis

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Nice video!  Tacking and sheeting angles are crazy!

Maybe I can crew on one someday!

Joel

On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 4:20 PM, Ron Casciato via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Ron……….think of it as a way to get a good used one if they have a lot of
> them out there.I think I’m generationally challenged to be able to sail
> one………
>
>
>
> Ron C.
>
>
> --
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Ronald
> B. Frerker via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 19, 2015 4:07 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Ronald B. Frerker
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Video of C 30 racing in Annapolis
>
>
>
> Imagine my disappointment, I was thinking of original C 30s.
>
> Great video though and I hope they sell the hell out of them.  Can only
> help get the name out there.
>
> Ron
>
> C 30-1
>
> Wild Cheri
>
> STL
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *From:* Rick Brass via CnC-List 
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Rick Brass 
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 19, 2015 9:48 AM
> *Subject:* Stus-List Video of C 30 racing in Annapolis
>
>
>
> The attached video was included in a post from a sailing TV website this
> morning. I have to say I’m impressed to see so many C 30s on the line,
> and the performance of the boats is impressive. Certainly not “us father’s”
> C And pretty athletic for this fat old man. But impressive none the less.
>
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FxUDhhQQVo
>
>
>
> Rick Brass
>
> *Imzadi  *
> C 38 mk 2
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
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>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Stus-List Video of C 30 racing in Annapolis

[robert via CnC-List]

Ron,
No, we are not too old to sail one of these new C 30 sport 
boats.we are too old to own and campaign one.


But I do agree with you, I'd rather be 'in' the boat than 'on' the boat!

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.



On 2015-11-19 5:20 PM, Ron Casciato via CnC-List wrote:


Ron……….think of it as a way to get a good used one if they have a lot 
of them out there.I think I’m generationally challenged to be able 
to sail one………


Ron C.




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Re: Stus-List Changing weight distribution in Landfall 38

[Dreuge via CnC-List]

I was thinking the exact same thing regarding a windlass and the need for 
starting if you split up the home bank leaving one bank(or just one battery) 
aft for emergency starting.   

As suggested, you should protect the wires at the battery, but rather than 
adding breakers, I suggest using a battery switch close to and MRBF terminal 
fuse blocks right on the battery.  Here is a great link :  
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/743190-post1.html

Waytek  has great prices.  Same product as Blue Sea but less than half the 
cost.   (http://www.waytekwire.com/products?pSearch=mrbf)




-
Paul E.
1981 C 38 Landfall 
S/V Johanna Rose
Carrabelle, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

> On Nov 19, 2015, at 4:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 15:59:34 -0500
> From: Joel Aronson >
> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com " 
> >
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Changing weight distribution in Landfall 38
> Message-ID:
>    >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> When you add the windlass you'll have the battery!
> 
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 3:51 PM, Robert Boyer via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> 
>> Thats a good idea for the rare, if ever, occasion arises.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone, Bob Boyer
>> 
>>> On Nov 19, 2015, at 3:27 PM, bobmor99 . via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
>>> 
>>> If it will be very rare to ever need a v-berth house battery for engine
>> starting, how about, if the need were to arise, disconnect one of the
>> v-berth batteries, take it aft, and use some jumper cables to get the
>> engine started.
>>> Bob M
>>> Ox 33-1
>>> Jax. FL
>>> 
>>> 

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Re: Stus-List Article from "The Yacht" magazine sept/oct 1985

[Jim Watts via CnC-List]

If you can scan it to a PDF you could send it to Stu and he can post it on
the website.

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

On 19 November 2015 at 13:19, JP Mail via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Found a 7 page article titled, C the Committee and the Corporate Boat.
> Interesting to me as I'm buying an '84. Any interest in me posting and if
> so what is the best way?
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ___
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Re: Stus-List Changing weight distribution in Landfall 38

[Fred Hazzard via CnC-List]

How about more water tanks instead?  Cruisers can't have to much water.

Fred Hazzard
S/V Fury
C 44
Portland, Or
On Nov 19, 2015 12:53 PM, "Robert Boyer via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Thats a good idea for the rare, if ever, occasion arises.
>
> Sent from my iPhone, Bob Boyer
>
> > On Nov 19, 2015, at 3:27 PM, bobmor99 . via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> >
> > If it will be very rare to ever need a v-berth house battery for engine
> starting, how about, if the need were to arise, disconnect one of the
> v-berth batteries, take it aft, and use some jumper cables to get the
> engine started.
> > Bob M
> > Ox 33-1
> > Jax. FL
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> >
> > Email address:
> > CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
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> >
>
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Stus-List Antifouling Paint

[robert via CnC-List]

Steve:

Your idea sounds much safer than mixing all three paints in one can.  I 
have already painted Micron 66 over Micron CSC with no issues.  Thank you.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.

On 2015-11-19 8:00 AM, S Thomas via CnC-List wrote:

Rob,
Painting over one kind of paint with another is quite 
different from what you originally proposed, which was to mix them all 
together in a can first. I think that is a bad idea unless you are 
certain that the paints all have essentially the same chemistry in 
their drying process. It might work, but why not play it safer, and 
just use one can until it runs out, and then the next, and so on.



Steve Thomas
C MKIII
Port Stanley, ON

C
Merritt Island, FL




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Re: Stus-List Antifouling Paint

[S Thomas via CnC-List]

Rob,
Painting over one kind of paint with another is quite different 
from what you originally proposed, which was to mix them all together in a 
can first. I think that is a bad idea unless you are certain that the paints 
all have essentially the same chemistry in their drying process. It might 
work, but why not play it safer, and just use one can until it runs out, and 
then the next, and so on.



Steve Thomas
C MKIII
Port Stanley, ON

C
Merritt Island, FL


- Original Message - 
From: "robert via CnC-List" 

To: 
Cc: "robert" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2015 12:47
Subject: Stus-List Antifouling Paint



Mike:

I am not so sure I would trust them. years ago, I bought a Kirby 25 
with VC 17...I wanted to put Micron CSC on the bottom but I did not 
want to remove the VC17...I will never remove antifouling paint again.


I asked Interlux tech support if I could put the CSC over the VC 
17."absolutely not was Interlux's answer.the CSC will simply peel 
off and provide no antifouling protection.you must remove the VC 17".


I gave it a wet sanding with 320 grit paper and applied the Micron CSC 
over it..absolutely no problem for the 7 years we raced the boat. 
John Roy and Paul Gallant remarked how nice the bottom of the Kirby 
was..John even felt the bottom had been 'long sanded' at some point 
before I bought the boat.


I painted the entire inside of the Kirby with Brightside..Interlux 
told me it would peel if I didn't prime first..no primer and one part 
Brightside worked finenever peeled.


Maybe I just answered my own question..what possible harm could it do!

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.



On 2015-11-18 11:46 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List wrote:

Contact interlux tech support to ask this question.  www.yachtpaint.com

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of robert 
via CnC-List

Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2015 11:40 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: robert
Subject: Stus-List Antifouling Paint

I have 3 different kinds of antifouling paint (Micron 66, Micron CSC and 
another ablative with 43% copper ) ..approx. a litre or quart of 
each.


Would it be alright to dump all of it into one one gallon can and mix it
all together.   I realize they might have different individual
effectiveness but do I really care if I don't have to buy a gallon of 
paint in the Spring.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.




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Stus-List Video of C 30 racing in Annapolis

[robert via CnC-List]

Mike:

I am proud to say that the last sail of this season on AZURA we (Dwight 
Veinot and me) had her going 7.1 knts to 7.3 knts to weather consistent 
speed on the GPS.


So we are ready to take on the new C 30 one design.any time!

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 -84
Halifax, N.S.

On 2015-11-19 11:00 PM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List wrote:

If a c is that fast imagine a c!

From: CnC-List [cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] on behalf of robert via CnC-List 
[cnc-list@cnc-list.com]
Sent: November 19, 2015 6:41 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: robert
Subject: Stus-List Video of C 30 racing in Annapolis





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Re: Stus-List Changing weight distribution in Landfall 38

[svpegasus38]

Bob, on Pegasus I have a 4d (house 1) under the port q-berth, a pair of 
6volts under the companion way (house 2) and a pair of group 24 for starting 
and windlass on the shelf to port of the engine. This keeps all heavy battery 
cables (except windlass) in short runs, lessens the voltage drop. I installed 
an isolator that allows all batteries to be charged by the engine. Not sure how 
it will work when I add solar. May just use the solar for the house bank. 
Doug MountjoysvPegasusLF38 just west of Ballard, WA.





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Re: Stus-List Changing weight distribution in Landfall 38

[Robert Boyer via CnC-List]

A couple good points were made here.  At the present moment my second (44-lb) 
anchor and rode are not on the bow--once I add this, it will help with weight 
distribution.

The other benefit of moving batteries around would be space gains in the 
starboard cockpit locker where I now have two batteries.  By moving these 2 
batteries I gain in 3 ways:  I reduce weight aft AND add weight forward AND I 
gain locker space.  So, it is still desirable to me.

I like the idea of 2 battery switches, separating the house bank into two--I 
did not think about this.

Also, the point was made that if the single starting battery ever fails without 
warning, I could take a battery from the house bank and put it in place where 
the failed starting battery was.  This makes a lot of sense since I have never 
had a starting battery fail without any warning.

If I add a water maker, it would be in place of the forward water tank which 
would again alter my weight distribution with less weight in the bow.

I appreciate all the good ideas--they all help!

Bob

Sent from my iPhone, Bob Boyer

> On Nov 19, 2015, at 8:27 PM, Daniel Sheer via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Bob,
> 
> For what it's worth, I have 5 group 31 batteries in my LF 38, one in the 
> forward end of the starboard lazarette (starting battery), two under the nav 
> seat (house bank 1) with the Electroscan, and two under the port quarterberth 
> (house bank 2). There are two big red bank switches, one separates the two 
> house banks, and on separates both of the house banks from the starter. The 
> alternator and the solar panel both charge house bank 1, and there's a diode 
> equivalent of an echo charger that allows the starting battery to charge even 
> when it is isolated from the house banks. I recently put in a 12 gallon 
> holding tank, but it is in what used to be storage just forward of the head - 
> I don't have a shower. This works well. First, I find the electroscan very 
> useful in the Bay, pump outs are rare, the waste is disinfected, and it's 
> legal, at least for now. Far as I can tell, weight distribution is not an 
> issue. The boat is quite competitive in my club as long as the bottom's 
> clean, even though I have only cruising (heavy dacron) sails of less than max 
> size. 
> 
> Dan Sheer
> Pegathy LF38
> Rock Creek off the Patapsco
> ___
> 
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Stus-List Water pump servicing

[John and Maryann Read via CnC-List]

Finally got around to servicing the pumps on our Yanmar 3GM.  It has the 
Sendure aftermarket cooling system so has a Yanmar OEM engine circulating water 
pump and a Jabsco raw water pump.  Need impellers, gasket and new screws for 
the face plate.  Question is where to readily source these.



A Google search discloses:



Crowley   Yanmar impeller 104211-42071

Pump Agents Jabsco pump model 2760-0001 impeller 4528-0001



Any suggestions for sources?





John and Maryann

Legacy III

1982 C 34

Noank, CT



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Re: Stus-List Keel repair

[robert via CnC-List]

David:

I am no expert on this topic, however, I saw a similar repair this 
season at our clubthe contractor was using an epoxy filler to fill 
the missing volume.not a great deal of weight lost in the keel and a 
relatively simple repair..I remember he screwed a few long SS screws 
into the lead keel to act as an extra 'anchor' for the epoxy filler.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.



On 2015-11-19 11:12 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List wrote:
Aries is now finally out of the water and I had a chance to survey the 
damage to the keel from my encounter with Melton Ledge last summer.  I 
actually received a special award from the Race Committee for going up 
on the ledge during a race and needing to be towed off.  In my 
defense, the marker buoy was 100 yards from where it was supposed to 
be and the Coast Guard repositioned it after I alerted them to the 
problem.
The front edge of the keel is well smashed in over about a 6 inch area 
where it looks like the lead is actually missing.  I had presumed I 
would pound it back into shape and then smooth, but that does not look 
possible now that I see it.  The guy who helps out in the yard 
suggested using Marine Tex epoxy putty to fill in the missing volume 
and then smooth (angle grinder?)  I am hoping that the experts on this 
list can give me some guidance as to how to tackle the repair. 
 Thanks- Dave


Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT




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Re: Stus-List Water pump servicing

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Depco Pump (http://www.depcopump.com/catalogs.php) should have the Jabsco
parts.

Dennis C.

On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 9:24 PM, John and Maryann Read via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Finally got around to servicing the pumps on our Yanmar 3GM.  It has the
> Sendure aftermarket cooling system so has a Yanmar OEM engine circulating
> water pump and a Jabsco raw water pump.  Need impellers, gasket and new
> screws for the face plate.  Question is where to readily source these.
>
>
>
> A Google search discloses:
>
>
>
> Crowley   Yanmar impeller 104211-42071
>
> Pump Agents Jabsco pump model 2760-0001 impeller
> 4528-0001
>
>
>
> Any suggestions for sources?
>
>
>
>
>
> John and Maryann
>
> Legacy III
>
> 1982 C 34
>
> Noank, CT
>
>
> --
> [image: Avast logo] 
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com 
>
>
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Stus-List Batteries in the cabin. Was Re: Changing weight distribution in Landfall 38

[Sailnomad via CnC-List]

Ok, now I am worried
I have 5 group 27 wet cell batteries under my cabin sole. They are not
wented. And I live aboard full time with wife and 2 dogs. Am I living
dangerously ? I never smelled anything. What are the symptoms ?
Ahmet
C 25 "Tabasco"
Irwin 43 "Waterdancer"
Boston, MA
On Nov 19, 2015 12:50 PM, "Robert Boyer via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> I DO use AGMs--so, vapors are not an issue.  I have some space just
> forward of the mast under the settee but close to the boat's centerline
> that might work for battery storage--I have to check out the dimensions but
> this would remove weight aft and add it close to the center of gravity.
>
> Bob
>
> Bob Boyer
> S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
> 1983 C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
> email: dainyr...@icloud.com 
> blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
>
> "There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply
> messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame
>
> On Nov 19, 2015, at 11:54 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> as you said, the current from the house batteries should never be high, so
> the wires should not be an issue. However, if you calculate your load at 30
> A and select appropriate gauge of the wire (for distance), make sure that
> you install an appropriate fuse (probably not larger than 50 A) (I would do
> it right on the terminal, but ABYC says, within 6 or 7 in from the
> terminal) to protect that wire. Such fuse would probably allow for one
> quick start of the motor (it would not allow for cranking a cranky motor).
> But if you want to be able to use your house batteries for cranking, you
> have to allow for at least 80 – 100 A in that cable (i.e. appropriate
> gauge). Keep in mind that if you install bigger cable, your voltage loss
> would be less, so you would have more energy available to you lights and
> instruments (instead of heating the cabin).
>
> One other thought. I am not sure if putting batteries under the V-berth is
> the best idea. As much as you could, you should avoid placing heavy objects
> far away from the centre of gravity. In heavy weather the heavy bow would
> be your enemy, not a friend.
>
> And finally, at least theoretically, you should not install the normal
> lead-acid batteries in the cabin (where they are not vented directly
> outside). If you want to install batteries below, you should use the gel or
> AGM batteries. This, in turn, leads to a more complex charging system
> (especially, if you are going to use AGMs).
>
> just a few ideas to consider
>
> Marek
> 1994 C270, “Legato”
> Ottawa, ON
>
>
> *From:* Robert Boyer via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 19, 2015 11:24 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Robert Boyer 
> *Subject:* Stus-List Changing weight distribution in Landfall 38
>
> I am equipping my boat for 8 months per year of cruising in the Bahamas.
> I have added a 19-gallon auxiliary diesel tank where my holding tank was
> located (under the navigation seat) which adds weight aft.  I currently
> have 4 group 27 batteries which will be eventually upgraded to Group
> 31's--these also are located aft.
>
> I have been considering moving 2 or 3 batteries from the aft cockpit
> locker to some dead space under the v-berth.  This would take some weight
> from the aft and add it forward.  (My boat currently sits about 2" high at
> the bow and maybe 1 inch low at the stern with no one aboard but full fuel
> tanks.)
>
> I could configure the batteries such that the new forward bank could be
> the house bank and the starting bank (which I could probably reduce to 1 or
> 2 batteries) could remain aft.  My problem is sizing the cables that would
> run from the forward batteries to the aft controls.  As I see it, these
> cables would never carry more than 30 amps (maximum charging from my solar
> panels) unless I needed them for starting (in the event of a dead starting
> battery).
>
> Does anyone have any comments or suggestions on this matter?
>
> Bob
>
> Bob Boyer
> S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
> 1983 C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
> email: dainyr...@icloud.com 
> blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
>
> "There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply
> messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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> bottom of page at:
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Re: Stus-List Video of C 30 racing in Annapolis

[Jack Fitzgerald via CnC-List]

I have shipped 6 of these C 30 OD boats to Japan this year with more
expected to ship in 2016. We have shipped a number of them to Europe as
well. This is one hot boat and has taken off internationally.

Best regards,
Jack Fitzgerald, export manager
Fitzgerald Forwarding Co. Inc. FMC license no:1966F
260 Oatland Island Road, Savannah, GA 31410 USA
Tel. no: 912 898.1069 - Fax no: 912 898.9458 - 24/7 mobile number: 912
441.2296
Email*: j...@fitzgeraldforwarding.com
www.fitzgeraldforwarding.com


**PLEASE REMOVE honeys...@aol.com  FROM YOUR ADDRESS
BOOK AND IMMEDIATELY ADD j...@fitzgeraldforwarding.com
*


On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 10:48 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> The attached video was included in a post from a sailing TV website this
> morning. I have to say I’m impressed to see so many C 30s on the line,
> and the performance of the boats is impressive. Certainly not “us father’s”
> C And pretty athletic for this fat old man. But impressive none the less.
>
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FxUDhhQQVo
>
>
>
> Rick Brass
>
> *Imzadi  *C 38 mk 2
>
> *la Belle Aurore *C 25 mk1
>
> Washington, NC
>
>
>
> ___
>
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> bottom of page at:
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>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Video of C 30 racing in Annapolis

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

If a c is that fast imagine a c!

From: CnC-List [cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] on behalf of robert via CnC-List 
[cnc-list@cnc-list.com]
Sent: November 19, 2015 6:41 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: robert
Subject: Stus-List Video of C 30 racing in Annapolis

Ron,
No, we are not too old to sail one of these new C 30 sport boats.we are 
too old to own and campaign one.

But I do agree with you, I'd rather be 'in' the boat than 'on' the boat!

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.



On 2015-11-19 5:20 PM, Ron Casciato via CnC-List wrote:
Ron……….think of it as a way to get a good used one if they have a lot of them 
out there.I think I’m generationally challenged to be able to sail one………

Ron C.




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Stus-List Keel repair

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

Aries is now finally out of the water and I had a chance to survey the damage 
to the keel from my encounter with Melton Ledge last summer.  I actually 
received a special award from the Race Committee for going up on the ledge 
during a race and needing to be towed off.  In my defense, the marker buoy was 
100 yards from where it was supposed to be and the Coast Guard repositioned it 
after I alerted them to the problem.  
The front edge of the keel is well smashed in over about a 6 inch area where it 
looks like the lead is actually missing.  I had presumed I would pound it back 
into shape and then smooth, but that does not look possible now that I see it.  
The guy who helps out in the yard suggested using Marine Tex epoxy putty to 
fill in the missing volume and then smooth (angle grinder?)  I am hoping that 
the experts on this list can give me some guidance as to how to tackle the 
repair.  Thanks- Dave

Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT



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Re: Stus-List Keel repair

[Brent Driedger via CnC-List]

That's a bummer.  
Have you inspected the hull in front of the keel and in back? Tremendous forces 
during a grounding can fracture the hull in ways which may barely be visible 
but can cause delimitation etc. If the impact was enough to distort the lead it 
may be well within your interests to have hull inspected carefully.  There are 
people that can do scans of the laminate.  In my opinion this is more important 
than the distorted lead which superficial and not structural.  

Best of luck, the 34+ is my favourite. 

Cheers

Brent
27-5
Lake Winnipeg. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 19, 2015, at 9:12 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Aries is now finally out of the water and I had a chance to survey the damage 
> to the keel from my encounter with Melton Ledge last summer.  I actually 
> received a special award from the Race Committee for going up on the ledge 
> during a race and needing to be towed off.  In my defense, the marker buoy 
> was 100 yards from where it was supposed to be and the Coast Guard 
> repositioned it after I alerted them to the problem.  
> The front edge of the keel is well smashed in over about a 6 inch area where 
> it looks like the lead is actually missing.  I had presumed I would pound it 
> back into shape and then smooth, but that does not look possible now that I 
> see it.  The guy who helps out in the yard suggested using Marine Tex epoxy 
> putty to fill in the missing volume and then smooth (angle grinder?)  I am 
> hoping that the experts on this list can give me some guidance as to how to 
> tackle the repair.  Thanks- Dave
> 
> Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> of page at:
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> 
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Stus-List Video of C 30 racing in Annapolis

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

The attached video was included in a post from a sailing TV website this
morning. I have to say I'm impressed to see so many C 30s on the line, and
the performance of the boats is impressive. Certainly not "us father's" C
And pretty athletic for this fat old man. But impressive none the less.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FxUDhhQQVo

 

Rick Brass

Imzadi  C 38 mk 2

la Belle Aurore C 25 mk1

Washington, NC

 

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Re: Stus-List Changing weight distribution in Landfall 38

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Bob,

as you said, the current from the house batteries should never be high, so the 
wires should not be an issue. However, if you calculate your load at 30 A and 
select appropriate gauge of the wire (for distance), make sure that you install 
an appropriate fuse (probably not larger than 50 A) (I would do it right on the 
terminal, but ABYC says, within 6 or 7 in from the terminal) to protect that 
wire. Such fuse would probably allow for one quick start of the motor (it would 
not allow for cranking a cranky motor). But if you want to be able to use your 
house batteries for cranking, you have to allow for at least 80 – 100 A in that 
cable (i.e. appropriate gauge). Keep in mind that if you install bigger cable, 
your voltage loss would be less, so you would have more energy available to you 
lights and instruments (instead of heating the cabin).

One other thought. I am not sure if putting batteries under the V-berth is the 
best idea. As much as you could, you should avoid placing heavy objects far 
away from the centre of gravity. In heavy weather the heavy bow would be your 
enemy, not a friend.

And finally, at least theoretically, you should not install the normal 
lead-acid batteries in the cabin (where they are not vented directly outside). 
If you want to install batteries below, you should use the gel or AGM 
batteries. This, in turn, leads to a more complex charging system (especially, 
if you are going to use AGMs).

just a few ideas to consider

Marek
1994 C270, “Legato”
Ottawa, ON


From: Robert Boyer via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2015 11:24 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Robert Boyer 
Subject: Stus-List Changing weight distribution in Landfall 38

I am equipping my boat for 8 months per year of cruising in the Bahamas.  I 
have added a 19-gallon auxiliary diesel tank where my holding tank was located 
(under the navigation seat) which adds weight aft.  I currently have 4 group 27 
batteries which will be eventually upgraded to Group 31's--these also are 
located aft.

I have been considering moving 2 or 3 batteries from the aft cockpit locker to 
some dead space under the v-berth.  This would take some weight from the aft 
and add it forward.  (My boat currently sits about 2" high at the bow and maybe 
1 inch low at the stern with no one aboard but full fuel tanks.)

I could configure the batteries such that the new forward bank could be the 
house bank and the starting bank (which I could probably reduce to 1 or 2 
batteries) could remain aft.  My problem is sizing the cables that would run 
from the forward batteries to the aft controls.  As I see it, these cables 
would never carry more than 30 amps (maximum charging from my solar panels) 
unless I needed them for starting (in the event of a dead starting battery).

Does anyone have any comments or suggestions on this matter?

Bob

Bob Boyer 
S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
1983 C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
email: dainyr...@icloud.com 
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com


"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply 
messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame

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Re: Stus-List Changing weight distribution in Landfall 38

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Bob — I would consider sizing the wiring aft from the forward batteries to 
allow at least 100 amps, with a maximum 10% voltage drop.  This would require 
at least 4AWG cabling from under the v-berth to the electrical panel aft; 
better would be 2AWG, which would allow you to pull 30 amps with a 3% voltage 
drop.  Don’t forget that you’ll need a battery switch located very close to the 
bank under the v-berth; and I would also put a 100-amp breaker (a 285-Series 
surface mount would do the trick: 
https://www.bluesea.com/products/7187/285-Series_Circuit_Breaker_-_Surface_Mount_100A)
 after the battery switch to protect the long wiring running aft.

The biggest issue with doing this is that trying to start your engine by 
switching over to the forward bank is most likely not going to work, as your 
starter wants more current than your wiring would be sized for.  Trying to 
upsize the wiring to accommodate this would be VERY expensive, and not ideal in 
any case.  If you move two batteries forward and keep two aft, basically 
splitting your house bank into two banks, you’d have a better chance using the 
aft bank as an emergency engine start source; but your wiring for charging and 
selection is going to be more complicated.

Does this help at all, or just set you up for more questions?   :^)

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Nov 19, 2015, at 10:24 AM, Robert Boyer via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I am equipping my boat for 8 months per year of cruising in the Bahamas.  I 
> have added a 19-gallon auxiliary diesel tank where my holding tank was 
> located (under the navigation seat) which adds weight aft.  I currently have 
> 4 group 27 batteries which will be eventually upgraded to Group 31's--these 
> also are located aft.
> 
> I have been considering moving 2 or 3 batteries from the aft cockpit locker 
> to some dead space under the v-berth.  This would take some weight from the 
> aft and add it forward.  (My boat currently sits about 2" high at the bow and 
> maybe 1 inch low at the stern with no one aboard but full fuel tanks.)
> 
> I could configure the batteries such that the new forward bank could be the 
> house bank and the starting bank (which I could probably reduce to 1 or 2 
> batteries) could remain aft.  My problem is sizing the cables that would run 
> from the forward batteries to the aft controls.  As I see it, these cables 
> would never carry more than 30 amps (maximum charging from my solar panels) 
> unless I needed them for starting (in the event of a dead starting battery).
> 
> Does anyone have any comments or suggestions on this matter?
> 
> Bob
> 
> Bob Boyer
> S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
> 1983 C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
> email: dainyr...@icloud.com  
> blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com 
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Re: Stus-List Changing weight distribution in Landfall 38

[Robert Boyer via CnC-List]

I DO use AGMs--so, vapors are not an issue.  I have some space just forward of 
the mast under the settee but close to the boat's centerline that might work 
for battery storage--I have to check out the dimensions but this would remove 
weight aft and add it close to the center of gravity.

Bob

Bob Boyer
S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
1983 C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
email: dainyr...@icloud.com 
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com

"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply 
messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame

> On Nov 19, 2015, at 11:54 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Bob,
>  
> as you said, the current from the house batteries should never be high, so 
> the wires should not be an issue. However, if you calculate your load at 30 A 
> and select appropriate gauge of the wire (for distance), make sure that you 
> install an appropriate fuse (probably not larger than 50 A) (I would do it 
> right on the terminal, but ABYC says, within 6 or 7 in from the terminal) to 
> protect that wire. Such fuse would probably allow for one quick start of the 
> motor (it would not allow for cranking a cranky motor). But if you want to be 
> able to use your house batteries for cranking, you have to allow for at least 
> 80 – 100 A in that cable (i.e. appropriate gauge). Keep in mind that if you 
> install bigger cable, your voltage loss would be less, so you would have more 
> energy available to you lights and instruments (instead of heating the cabin).
>  
> One other thought. I am not sure if putting batteries under the V-berth is 
> the best idea. As much as you could, you should avoid placing heavy objects 
> far away from the centre of gravity. In heavy weather the heavy bow would be 
> your enemy, not a friend.
>  
> And finally, at least theoretically, you should not install the normal 
> lead-acid batteries in the cabin (where they are not vented directly 
> outside). If you want to install batteries below, you should use the gel or 
> AGM batteries. This, in turn, leads to a more complex charging system 
> (especially, if you are going to use AGMs).
>  
> just a few ideas to consider
>  
> Marek
> 1994 C270, “Legato”
> Ottawa, ON
>  
>  
> From: Robert Boyer via CnC-List
> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2015 11:24 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Robert Boyer
> Subject: Stus-List Changing weight distribution in Landfall 38
>  
> I am equipping my boat for 8 months per year of cruising in the Bahamas.  I 
> have added a 19-gallon auxiliary diesel tank where my holding tank was 
> located (under the navigation seat) which adds weight aft.  I currently have 
> 4 group 27 batteries which will be eventually upgraded to Group 31's--these 
> also are located aft.
>  
> I have been considering moving 2 or 3 batteries from the aft cockpit locker 
> to some dead space under the v-berth.  This would take some weight from the 
> aft and add it forward.  (My boat currently sits about 2" high at the bow and 
> maybe 1 inch low at the stern with no one aboard but full fuel tanks.)
>  
> I could configure the batteries such that the new forward bank could be the 
> house bank and the starting bank (which I could probably reduce to 1 or 2 
> batteries) could remain aft.  My problem is sizing the cables that would run 
> from the forward batteries to the aft controls.  As I see it, these cables 
> would never carry more than 30 amps (maximum charging from my solar panels) 
> unless I needed them for starting (in the event of a dead starting battery).
>  
> Does anyone have any comments or suggestions on this matter?
>  
> Bob
> 
> Bob Boyer
> S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
> 1983 C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
> email: dainyr...@icloud.com 
> blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
> 
> "There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply 
> messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame
> 
>  
> ___
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
> of page at:
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> 
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