Stus-List Bonded Windows

[Mitchell's via CnC-List]

Gary, Nice write up, thanks! I have the same project to do in April/May. You 
left me with one question. How many tubes of Dow Corning did you need? 
Len Mitchell
Crazy Legs
1989 37+
Midland On. 

Sent from my mobile device. 
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Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Headgorilla via CnC-List]

Very nice work, thank you for sharing your project with us.
 
Mike
Skywalker 34'
 
 
-Original Message-
From: Gary Russell via CnC-List 
To: C List 
Cc: Gary Russell 
Sent: Wed, Dec 2, 2015 8:48 pm
Subject: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)



For those who were following my post on bonded windows onHigh Maintenance, I 
have an update and many thoughts on the project enumeratedbelow.  I have 
successfully installed twowindows on the starboard side and replaced the 
acrylic on all the hatches andcan say that the project has been very 
successful.  I have terminated my project at this point asthe temperatures are 
now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperatureof greater than 60 
degrees F for application. Here are my observations:

 
#1.  Plexus is evilstuff and should not be allowed on a boat. It is too hard 
and tenacious a bond. Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a different 
expansion coefficient,fracture of the acrylic is assured. Removing the stuff is 
impossible without destroying the gel coatunderneath.  I tried a sharp 
bladebetween the fiberglass and the acrylic and all I managed to do was rip up 
thegel coat.
 
#2.  Before removingthe windows, make a template out of some thin plywood (or 
other material) becausethe window will (no doubt) come out in pieces and you 
will have nothing as areference for making the new windows.
 
#3.  I finally wassuccessful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router bit set to 
a depth equal to thethickness of the acrylic plus the thickness of the Plexus.  
I actually used a Roto-Zip instead of arouter as it had a smaller footprint and 
was easier to handle.  I free-handed the router to cut through theacrylic and 
into the Plexus.  It’s riskybut effective.   Don’t cut all the wayaround the 
perimeter, but leave tabs to support the window.  Otherwise, the window will 
sink under theweight of the router and you will cut into the gel coat.  You can 
break out the tabs later.
 
#4.  Once the windows wereout, I used West System epoxy thickened with low 
density filler to repair anydamage to the gel coat.  Fortunately, all my gel 
coat damage was limited to the area under the windows.  Once the windowsare out 
and the damage is repaired, the rest is fun and easy. 
 
#5.   I cut the newwindow out of 3/8” Plexiglas using a pattern router bit 
(sometimes called a Formicatrimmer).  I used masking tape folded inhalf 
lengthwise to stick the new Plexiglas to the old window (or template).  I ran 
the tape at right angles to insure thatthey wouldn’t slide in either direction 
with respect to each other.  It does a very nice job and is quiteeasy.  I then 
used a 1/8” round offrouter bit on the outside edge of the new window for 
cosmetic reasons and a 45degree chamfer bit on the inside edge to make room for 
the Dow Corning 795silicone.
 
#6.  I installed the3M VHB 4991 tape on the coach roof and masked around where 
I wanted the windowto go.  This would help me locate the window and provide the 
masking for the Dow Corning 795 siliconeto follow.  I also masked the edge of 
thenew window for the same reason.
 
#7.  Now cones thetricky part.  You only get one shot withthe VHB tape, because 
once it is down, it is not coming up.  I tried adhering two small pieces of 
acrylicto each other with about two square inches of VHB tape, and I can assure 
you,you won’t pull them apart.  VHB isamazing stuff.  As a guide, I mounted 
twosmall wooden blocks to the masking take below the window with a small piece 
ofVHB tape.  By attaching it to the maskingtape, I was sure I could get it back 
off. Actually, VHB doesn’t stick very well to masking tape anyway.  I also 
stuck a small wooden block to the maskingtape at one end of the window as well. 
This allowed me to set the window on the two bottom block and then slideit over 
to the end block before pushing the window into place.  By all means, make 
several trial runs withthe film still on the VHB tape before removing the film. 
 Once the film is off you are committed.  I pushed the window in place and it 
lookedperfect.  Then it is simply a matter ofsquirting the Dow Corning stuff 
into the gap and smoothing it out with afinger.  As soon as the silicon 
issmoothed out, you can remove the masking tape and pour yourself a stiff 
one,while you admire the fine job you have done.
 
#8.  There was concernexpressed that the VHB tape would be visible through the 
window, and it wassuggested that the window should be painted with Krylon 
Fusion Black.  Actually, the VHB tape is the same color asthe Plexus which is 
not visible, so the VHB won’t be visible either.  No paint is necessary.  I 
used the darker shade of grey Plexiglas andcan say that it look spectacular.  
Thedarker shade really “pops” and the contrast is particularly attractive (in 
myhumble opinion).  The darker color makesit difficult to see into the boat, 
but has a minimal effect when 

Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Pete Shelquist via CnC-List]

Just an observation; The VHB tape seems like a more simple installation.  
However, I’m curious if Plexus is evil because it’s too hard and tenacious, yet 
the VHB joined parts won’t come apart, in 5-10 yrs when redoing windows again 
it sounds like we’ll be calling VHB evil.  

 

I don’t have a better solution, and question if there’s really a good one out 
there.  It sounds like we need to keep templates of the lenses and deal with 
cutting and filling around the frame when the connection fails.

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary Russell 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 7:47 PM
To: C List
Cc: Gary Russell
Subject: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

 

For those who were following my post on bonded windows on High Maintenance, I 
have an update and many thoughts on the project enumerated below.  I have 
successfully installed two windows on the starboard side and replaced the 
acrylic on all the hatches and can say that the project has been very 
successful.  I have terminated my project at this point as the temperatures are 
now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperature of greater than 60 
degrees F for application.  Here are my observations:

 

#1.  Plexus is evil stuff and should not be allowed on a boat.  It is too hard 
and tenacious a bond.  Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a different 
expansion coefficient, fracture of the acrylic is assured.  Removing the stuff 
is impossible without destroying the gel coat underneath.  I tried a sharp 
blade between the fiberglass and the acrylic and all I managed to do was rip up 
the gel coat.

 

#2.  Before removing the windows, make a template out of some thin plywood (or 
other material) because the window will (no doubt) come out in pieces and you 
will have nothing as a reference for making the new windows.

 

#3.  I finally was successful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router bit set 
to a depth equal to the thickness of the acrylic plus the thickness of the 
Plexus.  I actually used a Roto-Zip instead of a router as it had a smaller 
footprint and was easier to handle.  I free-handed the router to cut through 
the acrylic and into the Plexus.  It’s risky but effective.   Don’t cut all the 
way around the perimeter, but leave tabs to support the window.  Otherwise, the 
window will sink under the weight of the router and you will cut into the gel 
coat.  You can break out the tabs later.

 

#4.  Once the windows were out, I used West System epoxy thickened with low 
density filler to repair any damage to the gel coat.  Fortunately, all my gel 
coat damage was limited to the area under the windows.  Once the windows are 
out and the damage is repaired, the rest is fun and easy. 

 

#5.   I cut the new window out of 3/8” Plexiglas using a pattern router bit 
(sometimes called a Formica trimmer).  I used masking tape folded in half 
lengthwise to stick the new Plexiglas to the old window (or template).  I ran 
the tape at right angles to insure that they wouldn’t slide in either direction 
with respect to each other.  It does a very nice job and is quite easy.  I then 
used a 1/8” round off router bit on the outside edge of the new window for 
cosmetic reasons and a 45 degree chamfer bit on the inside edge to make room 
for the Dow Corning 795 silicone.

 

#6.  I installed the 3M VHB 4991 tape on the coach roof and masked around where 
I wanted the window to go.  This would help me locate the window and provide 
the masking for the Dow Corning 795 silicone to follow.  I also masked the edge 
of the new window for the same reason.

 

#7.  Now cones the tricky part.  You only get one shot with the VHB tape, 
because once it is down, it is not coming up.  I tried adhering two small 
pieces of acrylic to each other with about two square inches of VHB tape, and I 
can assure you, you won’t pull them apart.  VHB is amazing stuff.  As a guide, 
I mounted two small wooden blocks to the masking take below the window with a 
small piece of VHB tape.  By attaching it to the masking tape, I was sure I 
could get it back off.  Actually, VHB doesn’t stick very well to masking tape 
anyway.  I also stuck a small wooden block to the masking tape at one end of 
the window as well.  This allowed me to set the window on the two bottom block 
and then slide it over to the end block before pushing the window into place.  
By all means, make several trial runs with the film still on the VHB tape 
before removing the film.  Once the film is off you are committed.  I pushed 
the window in place and it looked perfect.  Then it is simply a matter of 
squirting the Dow Corning stuff into the gap and smoothing it out with a 
finger.  As soon as the silicon is smoothed out, you can remove the masking 
tape and pour yourself a stiff one, while you admire the fine job you have done.

 

#8.  There was concern expressed that the VHB tape would be visible through the 
window, and it was 

Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Andrew Burton via CnC-List]

I have templates for the C 40 windows if anyone needs them. Actually,
just a set of old windows the PO thoughtfully passed on to me.

Andy
C 40
Peregrine

On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 9:17 AM, Pete Shelquist via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Just an observation; The VHB tape seems like a more simple installation.
> However, I’m curious if Plexus is evil because it’s too hard and tenacious,
> yet the VHB joined parts won’t come apart, in 5-10 yrs when redoing windows
> again it sounds like we’ll be calling VHB evil.
>
>
>
> I don’t have a better solution, and question if there’s really a good one
> out there.  It sounds like we need to keep templates of the lenses and deal
> with cutting and filling around the frame when the connection fails.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Gary
> Russell via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 02, 2015 7:47 PM
> *To:* C List
> *Cc:* Gary Russell
> *Subject:* Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)
>
>
>
> For those who were following my post on bonded windows on High
> Maintenance, I have an update and many thoughts on the project enumerated
> below.  I have successfully installed two windows on the starboard side and
> replaced the acrylic on all the hatches and can say that the project has
> been very successful.  I have terminated my project at this point as the
> temperatures are now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperature
> of greater than 60 degrees F for application.  Here are my observations:
>
>
>
> #1.  Plexus is evil stuff and should not be allowed on a boat.  It is too
> hard and tenacious a bond.  Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a
> different expansion coefficient, fracture of the acrylic is assured.
> Removing the stuff is impossible without destroying the gel coat
> underneath.  I tried a sharp blade between the fiberglass and the acrylic
> and all I managed to do was rip up the gel coat.
>
>
>
> #2.  Before removing the windows, make a template out of some thin plywood
> (or other material) because the window will (no doubt) come out in pieces
> and you will have nothing as a reference for making the new windows.
>
>
>
> #3.  I finally was successful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router bit
> set to a depth equal to the thickness of the acrylic plus the thickness of
> the Plexus.  I actually used a Roto-Zip instead of a router as it had a
> smaller footprint and was easier to handle.  I free-handed the router to
> cut through the acrylic and into the Plexus.  It’s risky but effective.
> Don’t cut all the way around the perimeter, but leave tabs to support the
> window.  Otherwise, the window will sink under the weight of the router and
> you will cut into the gel coat.  You can break out the tabs later.
>
>
>
> #4.  Once the windows were out, I used West System epoxy thickened with
> low density filler to repair any damage to the gel coat.  Fortunately, all
> my gel coat damage was limited to the area under the windows.  Once the
> windows are out and the damage is repaired, the rest is fun and easy.
>
>
>
> #5.   I cut the new window out of 3/8” Plexiglas using a pattern router
> bit (sometimes called a Formica trimmer).  I used masking tape folded in
> half lengthwise to stick the new Plexiglas to the old window (or
> template).  I ran the tape at right angles to insure that they wouldn’t
> slide in either direction with respect to each other.  It does a very nice
> job and is quite easy.  I then used a 1/8” round off router bit on the
> outside edge of the new window for cosmetic reasons and a 45 degree chamfer
> bit on the inside edge to make room for the Dow Corning 795 silicone.
>
>
>
> #6.  I installed the 3M VHB 4991 tape on the coach roof and masked around
> where I wanted the window to go.  This would help me locate the window and
> provide the masking for the Dow Corning 795 silicone to follow.  I also
> masked the edge of the new window for the same reason.
>
>
>
> #7.  Now cones the tricky part.  You only get one shot with the VHB tape,
> because once it is down, it is not coming up.  I tried adhering two small
> pieces of acrylic to each other with about two square inches of VHB tape,
> and I can assure you, you won’t pull them apart.  VHB is amazing stuff.  As
> a guide, I mounted two small wooden blocks to the masking take below the
> window with a small piece of VHB tape.  By attaching it to the masking
> tape, I was sure I could get it back off.  Actually, VHB doesn’t stick very
> well to masking tape anyway.  I also stuck a small wooden block to the
> masking tape at one end of the window as well.  This allowed me to set the
> window on the two bottom block and then slide it over to the end block
> before pushing the window into place.  By all means, make several trial
> runs with the film still on the VHB tape before removing the film.  Once
> the film is off you are committed.  I pushed the window in place and it
> looked perfect.  Then it is 

Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Dreuge via CnC-List]

Hi Gary,

As I mentioned on the list before, there is a simple solution for the tricky 
part.  

Before removing the protective film on the VHB tape, align the window exactly 
where you want it and run two wide strips of masking tape down from the cabin 
top
onto the window spaced out like hinges. Then gently swing up the window, 
remove the VHB protective film, gently swing back down, and press firmly.  Easy 
and 
accurate for one person to do even for ports over 50".

-
Paul E.
1981 C 38 Landfall 
S/V Johanna Rose
Carrabelle, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

> On Dec 2, 2015, at 8:58 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> 
> #7.  Now cones the tricky part.  You only get one shot with the VHB tape,
> because once it is down, it is not coming up.  I tried adhering two small
> pieces of acrylic to each other with about two square inches of VHB tape,
> and I can assure you, you won?t pull them apart.  VHB is amazing stuff.  As
> a guide, I mounted two small wooden blocks to the masking take below the
> window with a small piece of VHB tape.  By attaching it to the masking
> tape, I was sure I could get it back off.  Actually, VHB doesn?t stick very
> well to masking tape anyway.  I also stuck a small wooden block to the
> masking tape at one end of the window as well.  This allowed me to set the
> window on the two bottom block and then slide it over to the end block
> before pushing the window into place.  By all means, make several trial
> runs with the film still on the VHB tape before removing the film.  Once
> the film is off you are committed.  I pushed the window in place and it
> looked perfect.  Then it is simply a matter of squirting the Dow Corning
> stuff into the gap and smoothing it out with a finger.  As soon as the
> silicon is smoothed out, you can remove the masking tape and pour yourself
> a stiff one, while you admire the fine job you have done.

___

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Re: Stus-List Jumper Batteries

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I was skeptical about something so small being able to start a car and even
more sceptical about something less than half the price.  The one I
provided the link for before is the one I have in my wife's car.  Having
used it I can say, It does what it claims to do.  After having tried it and
having my scepticism defused, I decided to shop for a second jump-pack.
The second one has 3 less AH (12AH total) and was in a hard case but
generally the same specs otherwise and $75 instead of $50.  After comparing
both of them and finding then about equal, I asked my wife which one she
wanted to keep in her car.  She chose the cheaper 15AH unit.  So now I have
the less powerful (and more expensive) one that comes in a hard case in my
car.  Funny thing is, given the choice I would chose the cheaper one too.

$75-ish one in my car... Less recommended:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D42AFS8/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_eTeywbFMS236N

$50-ish one in wife's car... More recommended:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GX4Y9AY/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_L0eywbCCMMWED

Josh
On Dec 3, 2015 7:41 AM, "jim aridas via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> I will chime in on the mpower it is really amazing. Great to jump
> vehicles, but also very handy when I
> forget to plug the boat back in after beer can racing tuesday nights, and
> the refrig kills the battery. Fires my 3gmf
> right up as well. Had it for 2 yrs now. Typically I see these units in the
> $120 range.
> As with anything I would be a skeptical of units 1/2 the price. The one on
> amazon might be "harbor freight ish"
> looks like the real thing but doesn't perform that way.
> Jim
> Galaxy 34'
> Brielle, NJ
>
> --
> Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 09:04:53 -0600
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Jumper Batteries
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> CC: muckl...@gmail.com
>
> Chuck,
>
> I don't know if you saw this on the other thread.  $50, 15Ah, the size and
> weight of a large-ish hardback book.
>
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GX4Y9AY/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_UwExwbNFB55BK
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> That's amazingly small.  Think I'll get one.
>
> C
>
> --
> *From: *"Indigo via CnC-List" 
> *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc: *"Indigo" 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, December 1, 2015 2:40:39 PM
> *Subject: *Stus-List Jumper Batteries
>
> I bought a mPower Jump last winter to replace an old clunky starter pack
> to keep on board Indigo.  Not 100% confident that it would start the diesel
> 3GMF, I charged up the unit at home - used it twice to start my Honda
> Accord, and then without recharging it, used it in May to start the boat
> with no other batteries connected - worked just great on the diesel that
> had not been run since laying up in the winter.
>
> Specs from their website below!
>
>
> The mPower Jump. Always With You, Always Ready, Always Easy to Use.
>
>- Jump starts all 12V cars including 8 cylinder vehicles
>- Fits in a glove box
>- Automatic On Technology
>- Multiple safety protection
>- High capacity battery technology
>- 600A peak current
>
> *Technical Specifications:*
>
>- Input: 12V 1A
>- Output: 12V
>- Jump start Start Current: 300A
>- Peak Current: 600A
>- Size: 7.09 x 2.76 x 1.38
>- Weight: 1.52 lbs.
>- Operating Temperature: -20° C-60° C/-4° F-140° F
>- Battery Capacity: 13000mAh
>- Full Charging Time: Approx 4h
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
> ___
>
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> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
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>
>
>
> ___ Email address:
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> unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at:
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>
> ___
>
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> bottom of page at:
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>
>
>
___

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Re: Stus-List Jumper Batteries

[jim aridas via CnC-List]

I will chime in on the mpower it is really amazing. Great to jump vehicles, but 
also very handy when Iforget to plug the boat back in after beer can racing 
tuesday nights, and the refrig kills the battery. Fires my 3gmf right up as 
well. Had it for 2 yrs now. Typically I see these units in the $120 range.As 
with anything I would be a skeptical of units 1/2 the price. The one on amazon 
might be "harbor freight ish"looks like the real thing but doesn't perform that 
way.JimGalaxy 34' Brielle, NJ

Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 09:04:53 -0600
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Jumper Batteries
From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
CC: muckl...@gmail.com

Chuck, 
I don't know if you saw this on the other thread.  $50, 15Ah, the size and 
weight of a large-ish hardback book.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GX4Y9AY/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_UwExwbNFB55BK
Josh Muckley

S/V Sea Hawk

1989 C 37+

Solomons, MD 
That's amazingly small.  Think I'll get one.

C

From: "Indigo via CnC-List" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: "Indigo" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2015 2:40:39 PM
Subject: Stus-List Jumper Batteries

I bought a mPower Jump last winter to replace an old clunky starter pack to 
keep on board Indigo.  Not 100% confident that it would start the diesel 3GMF, 
I charged up the unit at home - used it twice to start my Honda Accord, and 
then without recharging it, used it in May to start the boat with no other 
batteries connected - worked just great on the diesel that had not been run 
since laying up in the winter. 
Specs from their website below!
The mPower Jump. Always With You, Always Ready, Always Easy to Use. Jump starts 
all 12V cars including 8 cylinder vehiclesFits in a glove boxAutomatic On 
TechnologyMultiple safety protectionHigh capacity battery technology600A peak 
currentTechnical Specifications: Input: 12V 1AOutput: 12VJump start Start 
Current: 300APeak Current: 600ASize: 7.09 x 2.76 x 1.38Weight: 1.52 
lbs.Operating Temperature: -20° C-60° C/-4° F-140° FBattery Capacity: 
13000mAhFull Charging Time: Approx 4h
___

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Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Robert Boyer via CnC-List]

Also, a little heat using a heat gun (or the sun in the tropics) will make it 
easier to separate.

Bob

Sent from my iPhone, Bob Boyer

> On Dec 3, 2015, at 12:49 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Pete,
>  Although you can't pull the VHB apart with your fingers, it would be 
> very easy (I think) to separate with a blade.  Although I haven't tried it, 
> the tape is quite thick (0.090") and made of a firm acrylic foam, so cutting 
> the bond should do the trick.  A sharp razor blade should be able to remove 
> the residue.
> 
> Gary
> S/V High Maintenance
> '90 C 37 Plus
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
> 
> ~~~_/)~~
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 9:17 AM, Pete Shelquist via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> Just an observation; The VHB tape seems like a more simple installation.  
>> However, I’m curious if Plexus is evil because it’s too hard and tenacious, 
>> yet the VHB joined parts won’t come apart, in 5-10 yrs when redoing windows 
>> again it sounds like we’ll be calling VHB evil. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I don’t have a better solution, and question if there’s really a good one 
>> out there.  It sounds like we need to keep templates of the lenses and deal 
>> with cutting and filling around the frame when the connection fails.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary 
>> Russell via CnC-List
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 7:47 PM
>> To: C List
>> Cc: Gary Russell
>> Subject: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> For those who were following my post on bonded windows on High Maintenance, 
>> I have an update and many thoughts on the project enumerated below.  I have 
>> successfully installed two windows on the starboard side and replaced the 
>> acrylic on all the hatches and can say that the project has been very 
>> successful.  I have terminated my project at this point as the temperatures 
>> are now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperature of greater 
>> than 60 degrees F for application.  Here are my observations:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> #1.  Plexus is evil stuff and should not be allowed on a boat.  It is too 
>> hard and tenacious a bond.  Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a 
>> different expansion coefficient, fracture of the acrylic is assured.  
>> Removing the stuff is impossible without destroying the gel coat underneath. 
>>  I tried a sharp blade between the fiberglass and the acrylic and all I 
>> managed to do was rip up the gel coat.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> #2.  Before removing the windows, make a template out of some thin plywood 
>> (or other material) because the window will (no doubt) come out in pieces 
>> and you will have nothing as a reference for making the new windows.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> #3.  I finally was successful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router bit 
>> set to a depth equal to the thickness of the acrylic plus the thickness of 
>> the Plexus.  I actually used a Roto-Zip instead of a router as it had a 
>> smaller footprint and was easier to handle.  I free-handed the router to cut 
>> through the acrylic and into the Plexus.  It’s risky but effective.   Don’t 
>> cut all the way around the perimeter, but leave tabs to support the window.  
>> Otherwise, the window will sink under the weight of the router and you will 
>> cut into the gel coat.  You can break out the tabs later.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> #4.  Once the windows were out, I used West System epoxy thickened with low 
>> density filler to repair any damage to the gel coat.  Fortunately, all my 
>> gel coat damage was limited to the area under the windows.  Once the windows 
>> are out and the damage is repaired, the rest is fun and easy.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> #5.   I cut the new window out of 3/8” Plexiglas using a pattern router bit 
>> (sometimes called a Formica trimmer).  I used masking tape folded in half 
>> lengthwise to stick the new Plexiglas to the old window (or template).  I 
>> ran the tape at right angles to insure that they wouldn’t slide in either 
>> direction with respect to each other.  It does a very nice job and is quite 
>> easy.  I then used a 1/8” round off router bit on the outside edge of the 
>> new window for cosmetic reasons and a 45 degree chamfer bit on the inside 
>> edge to make room for the Dow Corning 795 silicone.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> #6.  I installed the 3M VHB 4991 tape on the coach roof and masked around 
>> where I wanted the window to go.  This would help me locate the window and 
>> provide the masking for the Dow Corning 795 silicone to follow.  I also 
>> masked the edge of the new window for the same reason.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> #7.  Now cones the tricky part.  You only get one shot with the VHB tape, 
>> because once it is down, it is not coming up.  I tried adhering two small 
>> pieces of acrylic to each other with about two square inches of VHB tape, 
>> and I can assure you, you won’t pull them apart.  VHB is amazing stuff.  As 
>> a 

Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Allen,
 If I understand your question, I used Dow Corning 795 Black silicone.
Gary

~~~_/)~~


On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 7:46 PM, allen via CnC-List 
wrote:

> What did you use for caulking to protect the bond?  My caulking is coming
> undone.
>
> Allen Miles
> s/v Septima
> C 30-2
> Hampton, VA
>
> *From:* Andrew Burton via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 03, 2015 9:26 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Andrew Burton 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)
>
> I have templates for the C 40 windows if anyone needs them. Actually,
> just a set of old windows the PO thoughtfully passed on to me.
>
> Andy
> C 40
> Peregrine
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 9:17 AM, Pete Shelquist via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Just an observation; The VHB tape seems like a more simple installation.
>> However, I’m curious if Plexus is evil because it’s too hard and tenacious,
>> yet the VHB joined parts won’t come apart, in 5-10 yrs when redoing windows
>> again it sounds like we’ll be calling VHB evil.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don’t have a better solution, and question if there’s really a good one
>> out there.  It sounds like we need to keep templates of the lenses and deal
>> with cutting and filling around the frame when the connection fails.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Gary
>> Russell via CnC-List
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 02, 2015 7:47 PM
>> *To:* C List
>> *Cc:* Gary Russell
>> *Subject:* Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)
>>
>>
>>
>> For those who were following my post on bonded windows on High
>> Maintenance, I have an update and many thoughts on the project enumerated
>> below.  I have successfully installed two windows on the starboard side and
>> replaced the acrylic on all the hatches and can say that the project has
>> been very successful.  I have terminated my project at this point as the
>> temperatures are now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperature
>> of greater than 60 degrees F for application.  Here are my observations:
>>
>>
>>
>> #1.  Plexus is evil stuff and should not be allowed on a boat.  It is too
>> hard and tenacious a bond.  Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a
>> different expansion coefficient, fracture of the acrylic is assured.
>> Removing the stuff is impossible without destroying the gel coat
>> underneath.  I tried a sharp blade between the fiberglass and the acrylic
>> and all I managed to do was rip up the gel coat.
>>
>>
>>
>> #2.  Before removing the windows, make a template out of some thin
>> plywood (or other material) because the window will (no doubt) come out in
>> pieces and you will have nothing as a reference for making the new windows.
>>
>>
>>
>> #3.  I finally was successful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router bit
>> set to a depth equal to the thickness of the acrylic plus the thickness of
>> the Plexus.  I actually used a Roto-Zip instead of a router as it had a
>> smaller footprint and was easier to handle.  I free-handed the router to
>> cut through the acrylic and into the Plexus.  It’s risky but effective.
>> Don’t cut all the way around the perimeter, but leave tabs to support the
>> window.  Otherwise, the window will sink under the weight of the router and
>> you will cut into the gel coat.  You can break out the tabs later.
>>
>>
>>
>> #4.  Once the windows were out, I used West System epoxy thickened with
>> low density filler to repair any damage to the gel coat.  Fortunately, all
>> my gel coat damage was limited to the area under the windows.  Once the
>> windows are out and the damage is repaired, the rest is fun and easy.
>>
>>
>>
>> #5.   I cut the new window out of 3/8” Plexiglas using a pattern router
>> bit (sometimes called a Formica trimmer).  I used masking tape folded in
>> half lengthwise to stick the new Plexiglas to the old window (or
>> template).  I ran the tape at right angles to insure that they wouldn’t
>> slide in either direction with respect to each other.  It does a very nice
>> job and is quite easy.  I then used a 1/8” round off router bit on the
>> outside edge of the new window for cosmetic reasons and a 45 degree chamfer
>> bit on the inside edge to make room for the Dow Corning 795 silicone.
>>
>>
>>
>> #6.  I installed the 3M VHB 4991 tape on the coach roof and masked around
>> where I wanted the window to go.  This would help me locate the window and
>> provide the masking for the Dow Corning 795 silicone to follow.  I also
>> masked the edge of the new window for the same reason.
>>
>>
>>
>> #7.  Now cones the tricky part.  You only get one shot with the VHB tape,
>> because once it is down, it is not coming up.  I tried adhering two small
>> pieces of acrylic to each other with about two square inches of VHB tape,
>> and I can assure you, you won’t pull them apart.  VHB is amazing stuff.  As
>> a guide, I mounted two 

Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[allen via CnC-List]

What did you use for caulking to protect the bond?  My caulking is coming 
undone.

Allen Miles
s/v Septima
C 30-2
Hampton, VA


From: Andrew Burton via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2015 9:26 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Andrew Burton 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)


I have templates for the C 40 windows if anyone needs them. Actually, just a 
set of old windows the PO thoughtfully passed on to me.


Andy

C 40

Peregrine



On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 9:17 AM, Pete Shelquist via CnC-List 
 wrote:

  Just an observation; The VHB tape seems like a more simple installation.  
However, I’m curious if Plexus is evil because it’s too hard and tenacious, yet 
the VHB joined parts won’t come apart, in 5-10 yrs when redoing windows again 
it sounds like we’ll be calling VHB evil.  



  I don’t have a better solution, and question if there’s really a good one out 
there.  It sounds like we need to keep templates of the lenses and deal with 
cutting and filling around the frame when the connection fails.







  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary 
Russell via CnC-List
  Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 7:47 PM
  To: C List
  Cc: Gary Russell
  Subject: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)



  For those who were following my post on bonded windows on High Maintenance, I 
have an update and many thoughts on the project enumerated below.  I have 
successfully installed two windows on the starboard side and replaced the 
acrylic on all the hatches and can say that the project has been very 
successful.  I have terminated my project at this point as the temperatures are 
now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperature of greater than 60 
degrees F for application.  Here are my observations:



  #1.  Plexus is evil stuff and should not be allowed on a boat.  It is too 
hard and tenacious a bond.  Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a 
different expansion coefficient, fracture of the acrylic is assured.  Removing 
the stuff is impossible without destroying the gel coat underneath.  I tried a 
sharp blade between the fiberglass and the acrylic and all I managed to do was 
rip up the gel coat.



  #2.  Before removing the windows, make a template out of some thin plywood 
(or other material) because the window will (no doubt) come out in pieces and 
you will have nothing as a reference for making the new windows.



  #3.  I finally was successful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router bit set 
to a depth equal to the thickness of the acrylic plus the thickness of the 
Plexus.  I actually used a Roto-Zip instead of a router as it had a smaller 
footprint and was easier to handle.  I free-handed the router to cut through 
the acrylic and into the Plexus.  It’s risky but effective.   Don’t cut all the 
way around the perimeter, but leave tabs to support the window.  Otherwise, the 
window will sink under the weight of the router and you will cut into the gel 
coat.  You can break out the tabs later.



  #4.  Once the windows were out, I used West System epoxy thickened with low 
density filler to repair any damage to the gel coat.  Fortunately, all my gel 
coat damage was limited to the area under the windows.  Once the windows are 
out and the damage is repaired, the rest is fun and easy. 



  #5.   I cut the new window out of 3/8” Plexiglas using a pattern router bit 
(sometimes called a Formica trimmer).  I used masking tape folded in half 
lengthwise to stick the new Plexiglas to the old window (or template).  I ran 
the tape at right angles to insure that they wouldn’t slide in either direction 
with respect to each other.  It does a very nice job and is quite easy.  I then 
used a 1/8” round off router bit on the outside edge of the new window for 
cosmetic reasons and a 45 degree chamfer bit on the inside edge to make room 
for the Dow Corning 795 silicone.



  #6.  I installed the 3M VHB 4991 tape on the coach roof and masked around 
where I wanted the window to go.  This would help me locate the window and 
provide the masking for the Dow Corning 795 silicone to follow.  I also masked 
the edge of the new window for the same reason.



  #7.  Now cones the tricky part.  You only get one shot with the VHB tape, 
because once it is down, it is not coming up.  I tried adhering two small 
pieces of acrylic to each other with about two square inches of VHB tape, and I 
can assure you, you won’t pull them apart.  VHB is amazing stuff.  As a guide, 
I mounted two small wooden blocks to the masking take below the window with a 
small piece of VHB tape.  By attaching it to the masking tape, I was sure I 
could get it back off.  Actually, VHB doesn’t stick very well to masking tape 
anyway.  I also stuck a small wooden block to the masking tape at one end of 
the window as well.  This allowed me to set the window on the two bottom block 
and then slide it over to the end block before pushing the window into 

Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Hi Paul,
 I did consider your proposal, but because my forward window was over
90" long, mounted on a curved surface and the area above was mostly
non-skid I was uncomfortable with that approach.  Masking tape does not
stick well to non-skid and a bonding failure at a critical time would be a
disaster.  I don't doubt that it would work well for many applications, and
might have worked for mine as well, but in the end, I was just
uncomfortable and looked for an alternative.  Mounting the guide blocks
worked very well for me.  Thanks for your post.

Gary
S/V High Maintenance
'90 C 37 Plus
East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~


On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 8:35 AM, Dreuge via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Hi Gary,
>
> As I mentioned on the list before, there is a simple solution for the
> tricky part.
>
> Before removing the protective film on the VHB tape, align the window
> exactly
> where you want it and run two wide strips of masking tape down from the
> cabin top
> onto the window spaced out like hinges. Then gently swing up the window,
> remove the VHB protective film, gently swing back down, and press firmly.
> Easy and
> accurate for one person to do even for ports over 50".
>
> -
> Paul E.
> 1981 C 38 Landfall
> S/V Johanna Rose
> Carrabelle, FL
>
> http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/
>
> On Dec 2, 2015, at 8:58 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
>
>
> #7.  Now cones the tricky part.  You only get one shot with the VHB tape,
> because once it is down, it is not coming up.  I tried adhering two small
> pieces of acrylic to each other with about two square inches of VHB tape,
> and I can assure you, you won?t pull them apart.  VHB is amazing stuff.  As
> a guide, I mounted two small wooden blocks to the masking take below the
> window with a small piece of VHB tape.  By attaching it to the masking
> tape, I was sure I could get it back off.  Actually, VHB doesn?t stick very
> well to masking tape anyway.  I also stuck a small wooden block to the
> masking tape at one end of the window as well.  This allowed me to set the
> window on the two bottom block and then slide it over to the end block
> before pushing the window into place.  By all means, make several trial
> runs with the film still on the VHB tape before removing the film.  Once
> the film is off you are committed.  I pushed the window in place and it
> looked perfect.  Then it is simply a matter of squirting the Dow Corning
> stuff into the gap and smoothing it out with a finger.  As soon as the
> silicon is smoothed out, you can remove the masking tape and pour yourself
> a stiff one, while you admire the fine job you have done.
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
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>
>
>
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