Re: Stus-List RC issues.

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Forgot to mention, the boat that volunteers as RC for a race is given the 
average of its other scores in the series for that race.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 28, 2016, at 7:04 PM, RANDY via CnC-List  wrote:
> 
> Hi Charlie,
> 
> In my club for keelboats we have a ten-week spring series and a ten-week 
> summer series on Wednesday nights, and a five-week fall series on Sunday 
> afternoons.  We generally get two dozen boats in the summer, half that in the 
> fall, and somewhere in between during the spring.  We expect every boat to 
> volunteer as RC once per year, so it almost works out as long as our 
> membership doesn't keep declining.  We generally have to beg, cajole, etc. 
> but we get the spots filled.
> 
> We use the stick first: if a boat doesn't fulfill its obligation to serve as 
> RC once in the year, we replace its highest place in a race with a DNC.
> 
> But we're considering adding a carrot, because we sometimes have more series 
> races than boats in the club.  The carrot under consideration is giving an 
> extra throw-out to each boat that does RC a second time during the year (we 
> give one throw-out per series as a general policy).
> 
> Cheers,
> Randy
> 
> From: "Charlie Nelson via CnC-List" 
> To: "cnc-list" 
> Cc: cenel...@aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 3:07:24 PM
> Subject: Stus-List RC issues.
> 
> I am looking for ideas on various ways to encourage club members to serve as 
> Race Committee and Mark Boat personnel.
>  
> Currently, our Club Racing Chairperson cajoles, begs, etc. club members who 
> race to serve periodically as the PRO, RC and MB crew. Since we have a one 
> design Sunfish fleet,
> they often provide this for the PHRF racers and the PHRF racers reciprocate 
> for the Sunfish races.
>  
> If a PHRF racer misses a PHRF race for which he/she serves as a RC, SB, MB or 
> PRO, their score that day is the same as their average race score for the 
> series so they do not suffer
> in scoring or qualification for the series when they serve. Of course this 
> does not provide an incentive to serve.
>  
> One local club has pretty regular RC and SB crew. 
>  
> Another,without that luxury, rotates it among the PHRF racers, awarding a 2nd 
> place to the boat who serves and limits this service to
> one race day per series. Basically they induce racers to serve with at least 
> a couple of 2nd places that they might not otherwise receive.
>  
> Some ideas we are considering include getting an iron clad commitment to 
> serve as PRO/RC from each racer which commits them to do it on a specific 
> race day and requires them to find a replacement
> crew if something comes up that requires them to bow out. If they cannot find 
> a replacement or trade dates with someone, then the racing that day would be 
> cancelled.
>  
> We are also considering giving a modest 'stipend' to encourage some club 
> members to consider taking this on for our ~ 10 race day 2017 PHRF season (6 
> race Saturdays and 2 weekend regattas). 
>  
> I prefer to give something to those who serve (2nd place on their service 
> day, free/reduced series or regatta entry fees, etc.) since it basically 
> impossible to 'punish' a volunteer club member who doesn't show up
> to 'do his duty'. I also believe a carrot is more effective than a stick!
>  
> Any list suggestions/examples would be appreciated.
>  
> Thanks,
>  
> Charlie Nelson
> Water Phantom
> 1995 C 36 XL/cb
>  
>  
>  
>  
> cenel...@aol.com
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
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Re: Stus-List RC issues.

[RANDY via CnC-List]

Hi Charlie, 

In my club for keelboats we have a ten-week spring series and a ten-week summer 
series on Wednesday nights, and a five-week fall series on Sunday afternoons. 
We generally get two dozen boats in the summer, half that in the fall, and 
somewhere in between during the spring. We expect every boat to volunteer as RC 
once per year, so it almost works out as long as our membership doesn't keep 
declining. We generally have to beg, cajole, etc. but we get the spots filled. 

We use the stick first: if a boat doesn't fulfill its obligation to serve as RC 
once in the year, we replace its highest place in a race with a DNC. 

But we're considering adding a carrot, because we sometimes have more series 
races than boats in the club. The carrot under consideration is giving an extra 
throw-out to each boat that does RC a second time during the year (we give one 
throw-out per series as a general policy). 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Charlie Nelson via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: cenel...@aol.com 
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 3:07:24 PM 
Subject: Stus-List RC issues. 

I am looking for ideas on various ways to encourage club members to serve as 
Race Committee and Mark Boat personnel. 
Currently, our Club Racing Chairperson cajoles, begs, etc. club members who 
race to serve periodically as the PRO, RC and MB crew. Since we have a one 
design Sunfish fleet, 
they often provide this for the PHRF racers and the PHRF racers reciprocate for 
the Sunfish races. 
If a PHRF racer misses a PHRF race for which he/she serves as a RC, SB, MB or 
PRO, their score that day is the same as their average race score for the 
series so they do not suffer 
in scoring or qualification for the series when they serve. Of course this does 
not provide an incentive to serve. 
One local club has pretty regular RC and SB crew. 
Another,without that luxury, rotates it among the PHRF racers, awarding a 2nd 
place to the boat who serves and limits this service to 
one race day per series. Basically they induce racers to serve with at least a 
couple of 2nd places that they might not otherwise receive. 
Some ideas we are considering include getting an iron clad commitment to serve 
as PRO/RC from each racer which commits them to do it on a specific race day 
and requires them to find a replacement 
crew if something comes up that requires them to bow out. If they cannot find a 
replacement or trade dates with someone, then the racing that day would be 
cancelled. 
We are also considering giving a modest 'stipend' to encourage some club 
members to consider taking this on for our ~ 10 race day 2017 PHRF season (6 
race Saturdays and 2 weekend regattas). 
I prefer to give something to those who serve (2nd place on their service day, 
free/reduced series or regatta entry fees, etc.) since it basically impossible 
to 'punish' a volunteer club member who doesn't show up 
to 'do his duty'. I also believe a carrot is more effective than a stick! 
Any list suggestions/examples would be appreciated. 
Thanks, 
Charlie Nelson 
Water Phantom 
1995 C 36 XL/cb 
cenel...@aol.com 

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Re: Stus-List RC issues.

[Fred Hazzard via CnC-List]

Give the rc boat a throwout.  Make each fleet required to provide a
committee.

Fred Hazzard
S/V Fury
Portland, Or

On Sep 28, 2016 5:22 PM, "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Give RC boat advantageous points in series
> 
> From: CnC-List [cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] on behalf of Charlie
> Nelson via CnC-List [cnc-list@cnc-list.com]
> Sent: September 28, 2016 6:07 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: cenel...@aol.com
> Subject: Stus-List RC issues.
>
> I am looking for ideas on various ways to encourage club members to serve
> as Race Committee and Mark Boat personnel.
>
> Currently, our Club Racing Chairperson cajoles, begs, etc. club members
> who race to serve periodically as the PRO, RC and MB crew. Since we have a
> one design Sunfish fleet,
> they often provide this for the PHRF racers and the PHRF racers
> reciprocate for the Sunfish races.
>
> If a PHRF racer misses a PHRF race for which he/she serves as a RC, SB, MB
> or PRO, their score that day is the same as their average race score for
> the series so they do not suffer
> in scoring or qualification for the series when they serve. Of course this
> does not provide an incentive to serve.
>
> One local club has pretty regular RC and SB crew.
>
> Another,without that luxury, rotates it among the PHRF racers, awarding a
> 2nd place to the boat who serves and limits this service to
> one race day per series. Basically they induce racers to serve with at
> least a couple of 2nd places that they might not otherwise receive.
>
> Some ideas we are considering include getting an iron clad commitment to
> serve as PRO/RC from each racer which commits them to do it on a specific
> race day and requires them to find a replacement
> crew if something comes up that requires them to bow out. If they cannot
> find a replacement or trade dates with someone, then the racing that day
> would be cancelled.
>
> We are also considering giving a modest 'stipend' to encourage some club
> members to consider taking this on for our ~ 10 race day 2017 PHRF season
> (6 race Saturdays and 2 weekend regattas).
>
> I prefer to give something to those who serve (2nd place on their service
> day, free/reduced series or regatta entry fees, etc.) since it basically
> impossible to 'punish' a volunteer club member who doesn't show up
> to 'do his duty'. I also believe a carrot is more effective than a stick!
>
> Any list suggestions/examples would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charlie Nelson
> Water Phantom
> 1995 C 36 XL/cb
>
>
>
>
> cenel...@aol.com
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
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Stus-List RC suggestion

[Francois Rivard via CnC-List]

In our club you get a 1 score, same as 1 st place, for doing RC..

It's usually reasonably well attended.

-François Rivard
34+ "Take Five'
Lake Lanier, GA
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Re: Stus-List RC issues.

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Give RC boat advantageous points in series

From: CnC-List [cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] on behalf of Charlie Nelson via 
CnC-List [cnc-list@cnc-list.com]
Sent: September 28, 2016 6:07 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List RC issues.

I am looking for ideas on various ways to encourage club members to serve as 
Race Committee and Mark Boat personnel.

Currently, our Club Racing Chairperson cajoles, begs, etc. club members who 
race to serve periodically as the PRO, RC and MB crew. Since we have a one 
design Sunfish fleet,
they often provide this for the PHRF racers and the PHRF racers reciprocate for 
the Sunfish races.

If a PHRF racer misses a PHRF race for which he/she serves as a RC, SB, MB or 
PRO, their score that day is the same as their average race score for the 
series so they do not suffer
in scoring or qualification for the series when they serve. Of course this does 
not provide an incentive to serve.

One local club has pretty regular RC and SB crew.

Another,without that luxury, rotates it among the PHRF racers, awarding a 2nd 
place to the boat who serves and limits this service to
one race day per series. Basically they induce racers to serve with at least a 
couple of 2nd places that they might not otherwise receive.

Some ideas we are considering include getting an iron clad commitment to serve 
as PRO/RC from each racer which commits them to do it on a specific race day 
and requires them to find a replacement
crew if something comes up that requires them to bow out. If they cannot find a 
replacement or trade dates with someone, then the racing that day would be 
cancelled.

We are also considering giving a modest 'stipend' to encourage some club 
members to consider taking this on for our ~ 10 race day 2017 PHRF season (6 
race Saturdays and 2 weekend regattas).

I prefer to give something to those who serve (2nd place on their service day, 
free/reduced series or regatta entry fees, etc.) since it basically impossible 
to 'punish' a volunteer club member who doesn't show up
to 'do his duty'. I also believe a carrot is more effective than a stick!

Any list suggestions/examples would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
1995 C 36 XL/cb




cenel...@aol.com

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Re: Stus-List C Polars Again

[Bruno Lachance via CnC-List]

Thank you very much Lee for sharing. Can you elaborate on the source of the 
data and your personal experience using it compared to real world in pure speed 
and VMG?

Thanks!

Bruno lachance
BEcassine, 33 mkII 1987
New Richmond,Qc

Envoyé de mon iPad

> Le 28 sept. 2016 à 00:12, Lee Rosenbaum via CnC-List  
> a écrit :
> 
> Attached are the polars for a C 33 MKII
> 
> Regards,
> Lee Rosenbaum
> Kookaburra
> C 33-2
> Kenosha, WI
> 
> -Original Message-
> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2016 19:23:32 + (UTC)
> From: John McKay 
> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List C Polars Again
> Message-ID: <1607791233.409403.1475004212...@mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Does anyone have the polars for a C 33 MK II?
> John on Enterprise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!

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Re: Stus-List RC issues.

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Charlie,

For a multiple-race series, we’ve made it a rule that for each race, one 
entered boat will be selected at random to serve as RC for that night’s race. 
The selection is done at the week before the series starts so people have the 
option to trade with another boat. Failure to appear and failure to follow 
established guidelines results in a non-throwoutable DSQ for the night. 

As long as boats serve and there is a start and finish of two or more boats in 
their division, the receive their average score for the night. If a race in 
their division is not run, or nobody in their division finishes, they do not 
get a score either. 

If you have enough boats, you can make it every two years. 

Simply put, if you want to eat the cake, sometimes you may need to do the 
dishes. 



All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 









> On Sep 28, 2016, at 5:07 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I am looking for ideas on various ways to encourage club members to serve as 
> Race Committee and Mark Boat personnel.
>  
> Currently, our Club Racing Chairperson cajoles, begs, etc. club members who 
> race to serve periodically as the PRO, RC and MB crew. Since we have a one 
> design Sunfish fleet,
> they often provide this for the PHRF racers and the PHRF racers reciprocate 
> for the Sunfish races.
>  
> If a PHRF racer misses a PHRF race for which he/she serves as a RC, SB, MB or 
> PRO, their score that day is the same as their average race score for the 
> series so they do not suffer
> in scoring or qualification for the series when they serve. Of course this 
> does not provide an incentive to serve.
>  
> One local club has pretty regular RC and SB crew. 
>  
> Another,without that luxury, rotates it among the PHRF racers, awarding a 2nd 
> place to the boat who serves and limits this service to
> one race day per series. Basically they induce racers to serve with at least 
> a couple of 2nd places that they might not otherwise receive.
>  
> Some ideas we are considering include getting an iron clad commitment to 
> serve as PRO/RC from each racer which commits them to do it on a specific 
> race day and requires them to find a replacement
> crew if something comes up that requires them to bow out. If they cannot find 
> a replacement or trade dates with someone, then the racing that day would be 
> cancelled.
>  
> We are also considering giving a modest 'stipend' to encourage some club 
> members to consider taking this on for our ~ 10 race day 2017 PHRF season (6 
> race Saturdays and 2 weekend regattas). 
>  
> I prefer to give something to those who serve (2nd place on their service 
> day, free/reduced series or regatta entry fees, etc.) since it basically 
> impossible to 'punish' a volunteer club member who doesn't show up
> to 'do his duty'. I also believe a carrot is more effective than a stick!
>  
> Any list suggestions/examples would be appreciated.
>  
> Thanks,
>  
> Charlie Nelson
> Water Phantom
> 1995 C 36 XL/cb
>  
>  
>  
>  
> cenel...@aol.com
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!

___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List RC issues.

[Michael Crombie via CnC-List]

Hi Charlie,

Every week a different boat is assigned RC duty...they just need to provide a 
suitable person whether they be from the boat crew or not.  You can of course 
vary this...2 boats assigned RC if you need 2 people, etc.  You can't sign up 
for racing unless you are prepared to accept this responsibility. It works 
really well.

Mike 
Atacama 33mkii
Toronto


Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.

-Original Message-
From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
Sender: "CnC-List" 
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2016 17:07:24 
To: 
Reply-To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: 
Subject: Stus-List RC issues.

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greatly appreciated!

Stus-List RC issues.

[Charlie Nelson via CnC-List]

I am looking for ideas on various ways to encourage club members to serve as 
Race Committee and Mark Boat personnel. 
 
Currently, our Club Racing Chairperson cajoles, begs, etc. club members who 
race to serve periodically as the PRO, RC and MB crew. Since we have a one 
design Sunfish fleet, 
they often provide this for the PHRF racers and the PHRF racers reciprocate for 
the Sunfish races.

If a PHRF racer misses a PHRF race for which he/she serves as a RC, SB, MB or 
PRO, their score that day is the same as their average race score for the 
series so they do not suffer 
in scoring or qualification for the series when they serve. Of course this does 
not provide an incentive to serve.

One local club has pretty regular RC and SB crew.  

Another,without that luxury, rotates it among the PHRF racers, awarding a 2nd 
place to the boat who serves and limits this service to 
one race day per series. Basically they induce racers to serve with at least a 
couple of 2nd places that they might not otherwise receive.

Some ideas we are considering include getting an iron clad commitment to serve 
as PRO/RC from each racer which commits them to do it on a specific race day 
and requires them to find a replacement
crew if something comes up that requires them to bow out. If they cannot find a 
replacement or trade dates with someone, then the racing that day would be 
cancelled.

We are also considering giving a modest 'stipend' to encourage some club 
members to consider taking this on for our ~ 10 race day 2017 PHRF season (6 
race Saturdays and 2 weekend regattas). 

I prefer to give something to those who serve (2nd place on their service day, 
free/reduced series or regatta entry fees, etc.) since it basically impossible 
to 'punish' a volunteer club member who doesn't show up
to 'do his duty'. I also believe a carrot is more effective than a stick!

Any list suggestions/examples would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
1995 C 36 XL/cb


 
 
cenel...@aol.com

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Re: Stus-List Polars for C 30

[RANDY via CnC-List]

Hi Alan, 

I waited four months for my SailTimer Wind Instrument (ordered it mid-April, 
received it mid-August, installed it mid-September). 

Is it worth it? I think so. Before I had it, the only way I could get wind data 
was from my hand-held wind meter in real time ( http://www.weatherhawk.com/sm18 
) which indicates lower-than-actual speed and can't tell me wind angle, or from 
http://wx.iwindsurf.com/map#39.548,-105.08,14,1,!11170,1 after the fact. 

The SailTimer Wind Instrument only cost me $350 - about $100 less than the most 
basic Raymarine i40 wind system with cockpit display and masthead transducer - 
and when combined with the SailTimer App it has a *lot* more functionality, and 
there are no wires to run or displays to mount. 

It's nice enough to just finally have wind speed and angle data in the cockpit. 
But the features of the app that really interest me are: 
* the graph of true wind speed, apparent wind speed, and boat speed over time - 
see http://www.sailtimerapp.com/NewFeatures.html , 
* the polar learning capability (see 
http://www.sailtimerapp.com/NewFeatures.html again), and 
* the optimal tacking route functionality - see 
http://www.sailtimerapp.com/HowToUse.html 

Installation and setup of the system was straightforward. I did go up the mast 
to mount the instrument with screws and nuts through holes I drilled in the 
masthead cap flange. And you have to install a couple apps on your iOS device 
and register with the SailTimerMaps website. But then it just works. 

I have noticed that the app sucks down the battery on my iPhone pretty fast - a 
full charge won't last a whole day. But some PO installed a cigarette lighter 
on my boat, so I now use an iPhone car charger when I'm running the app while 
sailing. 

I've only used it in anger for one weekend now, and I'm still learning the app. 
I can post speed graphs and polar tables etc. after another week or two. 

Best Regards, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C 30-1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 

- Original Message -

From: "Alan Lombard via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Alan Lombard"  
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 10:19:45 AM 
Subject: Stus-List Polars for C 30 

Randy, 
I too am interested in polars for the C 30 Mk 1. 
But I'm even more interested in what you think of your wind instrument. How 
long did you have to wait for delivery, and is it worth it? 
Cheers, 
Alan 
C 30-1 Selchie 
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Stus-List Polars for C 30

[Alan Lombard via CnC-List]

 app. 

I scrubbed my bottom a few weeks ago but couldn't see to get the keel (murky
marina water), so I'm sure it's not perfectly clean. 

Cheers,
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Jeffrey Nelson via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: "cnc-list" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: "Jeffrey Nelson" <jhnelso...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 3:42:46 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List C Polars Again 



Add a dirty bottom at this time of year and they'd work for my boat too. :-)
Are you using speed over ground or speed over water for your baseline speed?

--
Cheers,
Jeff Nelson
Muir Caileag
C 30
Armdale Y.C. 
Halifax 

On 9/27/2016 6:24 PM, RANDY via CnC-List wrote: 



Those are a reasonable approximation but they're from a 30E, the European
edition of the 30, which has a different design from my MK I (e.g. reverse
transom, different interior, probably different displacement), and who knows
what sails and what kind of prop etc. That boat is apparently fastest on a
shallow broad reach, probably under spinnaker. 

Assuming I can get an accurate set of polars for my boat this year, they'll
still show lower speeds than the boat's true potential, because I have old
tired sails including an undersized main, and I have a fixed prop. Even so
I'd like to get an accurate set of polars as a baseline to compare against
when I have new sails and a folding prop, hopefully next year. Then
hopefully I can sail the boat to its true speed potential. 

Cheers,
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Bill Coleman" <colt...@verizon.net>
To: "RANDY" <randy.staff...@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 1:26:24 PM
Subject: RE: Stus-List C Polars Again 



Can?t you just use the polars given on that site? They have a C 30 



Wind velocity   

6kts

8kts

10kts   

12kts   

14kts   

16kts   

20kts 

Beat angles     

45.5?   

43.7?   

43.3?   

43.7?   

43? 

41.3?   

40.5? 


Beat VMG

2.55

3.08

3.46

3.8 

4.14

4.39

4.53 


52? 

3.98

4.73

5.31

5.82

6.15

6.35

6.5 


60? 

4.26

5.02

5.65

6.08

6.34

6.52

6.72 


75? 

4.51

5.3 

5.94

6.29

6.49

6.67

7.02 


90? 

4.64

5.61

6.24

6.55

6.71

6.8 

7.04 


110?

4.77

5.75

6.31

6.63

6.93

7.23

7.53 


120?

4.65

5.63

6.24

6.57

6.86

7.18

7.75 


135?

4.27

5.19

5.97

6.39

6.67

6.96

7.56 


150?

3.68

4.6 

5.39

6.04

6.4 

6.66

7.21 


Run VMG 

3.19

3.99

4.69

5.33

5.92

6.31

6.83 


Gybe angles 

148.1?  

152.1?  

153.5?  

159.8?  

180?

180?

180? 



Right? 




Regards, 



Bill Coleman 




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--
Boat_Sig Cheers,
Jeff Nelson
Muir Caileag
C 30
Armdale Y.C. 
Halifax 

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Re: Stus-List C Polars Again

[mike amirault via CnC-List]

Never mind Lee, I found the excel attachment. Thanks.

Mike Amirault
C Lovely Cruise
SCSC___

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Re: Stus-List C Polars Again

[mike amirault via CnC-List]

Lee, would you kindly email the C polars to me as well? Thanks.

Mike Amirault
C Lovely Cruise
SMSC___

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