Re: Stus-List Negative wire corrosion issues

[bwhitmore via CnC-List]

Interestingly, this was never an issue on our 1977 C, but that was a Great 
Lakes boat.  Maybe just the difference between salt & fresh water...
Thank you,
Bruce Whitmore 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
 Date: 7/19/17  10:12 AM  (GMT-05:00) To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Joel Aronson  Subject: Re: 
Stus-List Negative wire corrosion issues 
Bruce,
They use non-tinned non-marine grade wire in lots of boats.  I don't know why 
the ground tends to corrode first.  Make sure you are cutting off enough wire 
to get to wire that is not garbage.  Don't buy connectors at an automotive 
store.  Speaker wire is likely garbage from end to end.You can't test impedance 
by checking voltage.  Learned that one the hard way!
Joel
On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 9:53 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
wrote:
I hope you're coating your connections with TefGel as you fix them.  :)
Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, LA
On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 8:49 AM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
 wrote:
Hello, 
We took over ownership of a 1994 C 37/40+ about 4 months ago.  At that time, 
we knew we had a battery issue.  As it turns out, after we replaced the 
batteries, we found that one of the battery banks was still not showing enough 
voltage getting to the panel.  I immediately suspected a bad ground, and when I 
went to tighten it, the ground cable made a crunching sound/feel when I pulled 
on it.  
I immediately replaced the ground cables, which fixed the problem.  
As I continue to address other electrical issues (lights and pumps that don't 
work, rotted speakers, etc.), I'm finding that in most cases, the negative wire 
at the far attachment to the appliance (speaker, pump, light, etc.), tends to 
be corroded.  Usually just green on the inside, but still usable, but in some 
cases it is requiring me to splice in a piece of wire a few inches away.  In 
one case where there is a light in the closet of the forward cabin, I will 
probably have to rewire with a new light due to the wires breaking through.
Is this "normal" corrosion (the boat is in salt water), or is there a 
particular cause for only the ground wire to corrode?  Why is it not happening 
on the power wire as well?
Does this indicate other issues I should watch out for?  I'm not seeing pink 
discoloration on seacocks, don't see issues on the engine, etc.  
Thanks in advance,
Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+Madiera Beach, FL
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!





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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!





-- 
Joel 
301 541 8551

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Re: Stus-List Negative wire corrosion issues

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Bruce,

They use non-tinned non-marine grade wire in lots of boats.  I don't know
why the ground tends to corrode first.  Make sure you are cutting off
enough wire to get to wire that is not garbage.  Don't buy connectors at an
automotive store.  Speaker wire is likely garbage from end to end.
You can't test impedance by checking voltage.  Learned that one the hard
way!

Joel

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 9:53 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I hope you're coating your connections with TefGel as you fix them.  :)
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 8:49 AM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> We took over ownership of a 1994 C 37/40+ about 4 months ago.  At that
>> time, we knew we had a battery issue.  As it turns out, after we replaced
>> the batteries, we found that one of the battery banks was still not showing
>> enough voltage getting to the panel.  I immediately suspected a bad ground,
>> and when I went to tighten it, the ground cable made a crunching sound/feel
>> when I pulled on it.
>>
>> I immediately replaced the ground cables, which fixed the problem.
>>
>> As I continue to address other electrical issues (lights and pumps that
>> don't work, rotted speakers, etc.), I'm finding that in most cases, the
>> negative wire at the far attachment to the appliance (speaker, pump, light,
>> etc.), tends to be corroded.  Usually just green on the inside, but still
>> usable, but in some cases it is requiring me to splice in a piece of wire a
>> few inches away.  In one case where there is a light in the closet of the
>> forward cabin, I will probably have to rewire with a new light due to the
>> wires breaking through.
>>
>> Is this "normal" corrosion (the boat is in salt water), or is there a
>> particular cause for only the ground wire to corrode?  Why is it not
>> happening on the power wire as well?
>>
>> Does this indicate other issues I should watch out for?  I'm not seeing
>> pink discoloration on seacocks, don't see issues on the engine, etc.
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Bruce Whitmore
>> 1994 C 37/40+
>> Madiera Beach, FL
>> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
>> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Rules of the Road

[JP Mail via CnC-List]

Ok. Got it. Let's get back to bilge pumps and varnishes. 
Jon

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 19, 2017, at 9:37 AM, David via CnC-List  wrote:
> 
> I hold a 75 Tom Ocean Operatoms license. 
> 
> It was Not dragging a net and not fishing.  Just booms down.   
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
> 
> 
>  Original message 
> From: JP Mail via CnC-List  
> Date: 7/18/17 3:42 PM (GMT-05:00) 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Cc: JP Mail  
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Rules of the Road 
> 
> Correct. This guy had stabilizers out and dragging a net. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 18, 2017, at 3:23 PM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
>> "Fishing" means a commercial vessel dragging gear, not some guy trolling.
>> 
>> Joel
>> 
>>> On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 3:19 PM, JP Mail via CnC-List 
>>>  wrote:
>>> Vessel engaged in Fishing is restricted in her ability to move and has the 
>>> right away over sailing vessel. 
>>> Yeah, just got the 6 pack license. 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jul 18, 2017, at 2:07 PM, David via CnC-List  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 We were powered up on a broad reach with a chute heading eastward down LIS 
 doing about 9 knots with just Lady Di and I.  Clear  September weekday so 
 empty waters.  And a rare morning sail with great wind from the right 
 direction. 
 
 Fishing dragger with stabilizers down is slowing bearing down on us from 
 astern.   30 minutes later and he would have run right up our transom if I 
 did not alter course and risk a roundup in the process 
 
 Prick was on bridge.  Wouldnt answer radio.  
 
 Some of those commercial guys just have a bad attitude towards us 
 "yachties"  
 
 Either it's black or white with them...competent or maliciously 
 incompetent.  
 
 1981 40-2.  
 
 
 
 Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
 
 
  Original message 
 From: Danny Haughey via CnC-List  
 Date: 7/18/17 1:24 PM (GMT-05:00) 
 To: Aaron Rouhi via CnC-List  
 Cc: Danny Haughey  
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Rules of the Road 
 
 when we were on our 22 foot sailboat we got swamped by a bis a$$ powers 
 boat's wake because he couldn't be bother to give us any room and passed 
 us about 20 feet off our bow throwing a 4' wake. Then they had the nerve 
 to wave...  My wife waved back with 1 finger while hanging off the 
 shrouds.  That wake came up over the bow and right down the companionway...
 
 Last summer, I was watching this sail boat flying a spinnaker closing on 
 us from the stern to port.  We were running wing and wing doing about 4 
 knots in a light breeze.  Now, I watched them for at least 40 minutes, 
 when I first saw them they could simply have changed their course by one 
 degree and came well aft. instead, they close within shouting distance 
 and the lady on the helm yells over, "can you give us some room?"  I 
 shouted back, "what do you want me to do?"  she replies, "head up!"  
 Upon which two other crew members seemed to say something to her and 
 they dropped the sock over the spin, came across my stern and opened the 
 little spin back up.  I assumed the stand on position of being the 
 overtaken vessel and knew it was their job to get around me. I could not 
 figure out what they were doing and decided the best thing i could do 
 was stand on.  Luckily it worked out!
 
 Danny
 
 
 On 7/18/2017 12:59 PM, Aaron Rouhi via CnC-List wrote:
 > Glad you were able get away without any damages... I have had a few of 
 > these here in Chesapeake. Once the "captain" of the power boat actually 
 > turned around and yelled at me for not changing course...
 >
 > Cheers,
 > AR
 >
 >> On Jul 18, 2017, at 10:32 AM, robert via CnC-List 
 >>  wrote:
 >>
 >> Yesterday afternoon, having a pleasant sail in Halifax harbor, 5.5 
 >> knots, starboard tack with a 25' to 30' cape island power boat 
 >> approaching at about the same speed on my port side.
 >>
 >> As we approached each other, I was judging distance and time and it 
 >> became clear we were on a collision course.  Since I was under sail and 
 >> he was a leisure boat, not commercial, under power I assumed he would 
 >> give way..maybe slow his speed and let me cross in front of him or 
 >> he would duck behind me.
 >>
 >> Not happeningI could see him looking right at me so it was not a 
 >> case where he didn't, couldn't see me.at the last moment when I 
 >> realized he wasn't going to give me right of way,  I 'crashed 
 >> 

Re: Stus-List Under-deck autopilot story...

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

The 35 MK I has a pretty good emergency tiller. I used to use it to steer from 
under the dodger in the rain. If it had a hinge and was about a foot longer it 
would be as good as if the boat was designed to be tiller steered with the 
exception of the drag form moving the wheel.

Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bruce 
Whitmore via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 9:56 AM
To: C List 
Cc: Bruce Whitmore 
Subject: Stus-List Under-deck autopilot story...

Hello all,

I saw the comment about wheel vs. under-deck autopilots, and have a rather 
funny story.  It turns out our new boat neighbors had taken their 42 ft. 
Catalina out for a relatively long sail (a couple hundred miles).  As they were 
coming back, the steering failed.  They attached their emergency rudder, and as 
was mentioned by another poster, it was a pretty miserable way to steer the 
boat.  The emergency rudder stock was short, and they fought with it for 12 
hours or more.

Coming into the harbor, they were exhausted.

Later, the owner was talking with his son about the experience, and his son 
asked "Did you turn on the autopilot - why didn't it work?"

Turns out, it never occurred to them that the autopilot was unaffected by the 
cable failure...  :)

It's still a source of ribbing and laughter to this day.

I love the fact that our autopilot is driven under deck by a hydraulic ram.

Kindest Regards,

Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+
Madiera Beach, FL
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Stus-List Under-deck autopilot story...

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
I saw the comment about wheel vs. under-deck autopilots, and have a rather 
funny story.  It turns out our new boat neighbors had taken their 42 ft. 
Catalina out for a relatively long sail (a couple hundred miles).  As they were 
coming back, the steering failed.  They attached their emergency rudder, and as 
was mentioned by another poster, it was a pretty miserable way to steer the 
boat.  The emergency rudder stock was short, and they fought with it for 12 
hours or more.  
Coming into the harbor, they were exhausted.
Later, the owner was talking with his son about the experience, and his son 
asked "Did you turn on the autopilot - why didn't it work?"
Turns out, it never occurred to them that the autopilot was unaffected by the 
cable failure...  :)
It's still a source of ribbing and laughter to this day.
I love the fact that our autopilot is driven under deck by a hydraulic ram.
Kindest Regards, 
Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+Madiera Beach, FL
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Negative wire corrosion issues

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

I hope you're coating your connections with TefGel as you fix them.  :)

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 8:49 AM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> We took over ownership of a 1994 C 37/40+ about 4 months ago.  At that
> time, we knew we had a battery issue.  As it turns out, after we replaced
> the batteries, we found that one of the battery banks was still not showing
> enough voltage getting to the panel.  I immediately suspected a bad ground,
> and when I went to tighten it, the ground cable made a crunching sound/feel
> when I pulled on it.
>
> I immediately replaced the ground cables, which fixed the problem.
>
> As I continue to address other electrical issues (lights and pumps that
> don't work, rotted speakers, etc.), I'm finding that in most cases, the
> negative wire at the far attachment to the appliance (speaker, pump, light,
> etc.), tends to be corroded.  Usually just green on the inside, but still
> usable, but in some cases it is requiring me to splice in a piece of wire a
> few inches away.  In one case where there is a light in the closet of the
> forward cabin, I will probably have to rewire with a new light due to the
> wires breaking through.
>
> Is this "normal" corrosion (the boat is in salt water), or is there a
> particular cause for only the ground wire to corrode?  Why is it not
> happening on the power wire as well?
>
> Does this indicate other issues I should watch out for?  I'm not seeing
> pink discoloration on seacocks, don't see issues on the engine, etc.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Bruce Whitmore
> 1994 C 37/40+
> Madiera Beach, FL
> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

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Stus-List Negative wire corrosion issues

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello, 
We took over ownership of a 1994 C 37/40+ about 4 months ago.  At that time, 
we knew we had a battery issue.  As it turns out, after we replaced the 
batteries, we found that one of the battery banks was still not showing enough 
voltage getting to the panel.  I immediately suspected a bad ground, and when I 
went to tighten it, the ground cable made a crunching sound/feel when I pulled 
on it.  
I immediately replaced the ground cables, which fixed the problem.  
As I continue to address other electrical issues (lights and pumps that don't 
work, rotted speakers, etc.), I'm finding that in most cases, the negative wire 
at the far attachment to the appliance (speaker, pump, light, etc.), tends to 
be corroded.  Usually just green on the inside, but still usable, but in some 
cases it is requiring me to splice in a piece of wire a few inches away.  In 
one case where there is a light in the closet of the forward cabin, I will 
probably have to rewire with a new light due to the wires breaking through.
Is this "normal" corrosion (the boat is in salt water), or is there a 
particular cause for only the ground wire to corrode?  Why is it not happening 
on the power wire as well?
Does this indicate other issues I should watch out for?  I'm not seeing pink 
discoloration on seacocks, don't see issues on the engine, etc.  
Thanks in advance,
Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+Madiera Beach, FL
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Rules of the Road

[David via CnC-List]

I hold a 75 Tom Ocean Operatoms license.

It was Not dragging a net and not fishing.  Just booms down.



Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone


 Original message 
From: JP Mail via CnC-List 
Date: 7/18/17 3:42 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: JP Mail 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Rules of the Road

Correct. This guy had stabilizers out and dragging a net.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 18, 2017, at 3:23 PM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
> wrote:

"Fishing" means a commercial vessel dragging gear, not some guy trolling.

Joel

On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 3:19 PM, JP Mail via CnC-List 
> wrote:
Vessel engaged in Fishing is restricted in her ability to move and has the 
right away over sailing vessel.
Yeah, just got the 6 pack license.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 18, 2017, at 2:07 PM, David via CnC-List 
> wrote:

We were powered up on a broad reach with a chute heading eastward down LIS 
doing about 9 knots with just Lady Di and I.  Clear  September weekday so empty 
waters.  And a rare morning sail with great wind from the right direction.

Fishing dragger with stabilizers down is slowing bearing down on us from 
astern.   30 minutes later and he would have run right up our transom if I did 
not alter course and risk a roundup in the process

Prick was on bridge.  Wouldnt answer radio.

Some of those commercial guys just have a bad attitude towards us "yachties"

Either it's black or white with them...competent or maliciously incompetent.

1981 40-2.



Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone


 Original message 
From: Danny Haughey via CnC-List 
>
Date: 7/18/17 1:24 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Aaron Rouhi via CnC-List 
>
Cc: Danny Haughey >
Subject: Re: Stus-List Rules of the Road

when we were on our 22 foot sailboat we got swamped by a bis a$$ powers
boat's wake because he couldn't be bother to give us any room and passed
us about 20 feet off our bow throwing a 4' wake. Then they had the nerve
to wave...  My wife waved back with 1 finger while hanging off the
shrouds.  That wake came up over the bow and right down the companionway...

Last summer, I was watching this sail boat flying a spinnaker closing on
us from the stern to port.  We were running wing and wing doing about 4
knots in a light breeze.  Now, I watched them for at least 40 minutes,
when I first saw them they could simply have changed their course by one
degree and came well aft. instead, they close within shouting distance
and the lady on the helm yells over, "can you give us some room?"  I
shouted back, "what do you want me to do?"  she replies, "head up!"
Upon which two other crew members seemed to say something to her and
they dropped the sock over the spin, came across my stern and opened the
little spin back up.  I assumed the stand on position of being the
overtaken vessel and knew it was their job to get around me. I could not
figure out what they were doing and decided the best thing i could do
was stand on.  Luckily it worked out!

Danny


On 7/18/2017 12:59 PM, Aaron Rouhi via CnC-List wrote:
> Glad you were able get away without any damages... I have had a few of these 
> here in Chesapeake. Once the "captain" of the power boat actually turned 
> around and yelled at me for not changing course...
>
> Cheers,
> AR
>
>> On Jul 18, 2017, at 10:32 AM, robert via CnC-List 
>> > wrote:
>>
>> Yesterday afternoon, having a pleasant sail in Halifax harbor, 5.5 knots, 
>> starboard tack with a 25' to 30' cape island power boat approaching at about 
>> the same speed on my port side.
>>
>> As we approached each other, I was judging distance and time and it became 
>> clear we were on a collision course.  Since I was under sail and he was a 
>> leisure boat, not commercial, under power I assumed he would give 
>> way..maybe slow his speed and let me cross in front of him or he would 
>> duck behind me.
>>
>> Not happeningI could see him looking right at me so it was not a case 
>> where he didn't, couldn't see me.at the last moment when I realized he 
>> wasn't going to give me right of way,  I 'crashed tacked'..I didn't even 
>> have time to release the jib...just spun around 180 degrees and he 
>> passed approx. 3' from my transom. There were two people sitting in chairs 
>> on his back deck that saw me and looked bewildered wondering why I was so 
>> close to them.
>>
>> He didn't slow down, didn't alter his course, didn't acknowledge me in any 
>> way.   If I had not turned, we would have collided..given my judgement 
>> of the situation, he would have T-boned me about mid ship, port side 

Re: Stus-List Rules of the road.

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

What “working boat” rule exactly does he think there is?
Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Brian Fry 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 6:12 PM
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Brian Fry 
Subject: Stus-List Rules of the road.

I was heading south out of Annapolis on a port tack. Power boat which looked 
like a Crabber type is heading north on a course which will take me across his 
bow with at least 100 yards or more clearance. As it is that he is heading 
north I cannot see his stern, and if he is working or not. Looks to me like  he 
is just heading for port. He is not stopping, I see no pots going over the side 
or coming back on board. I hold my course. NBD, as we aren't really on a 
collision course anyway. I finally decided to veer off starboard and give him 
more room when I got close enough to see no one at the helm. As we passed, with 
lots of distance to spare, he cussed ME out "give way to a working vessel you 
so an so"
How the hell was I to know he was "working". He was flying no flag ( it was 
daylight). Nor have I ever seen anyone fly day signals on the Bay.
NTL, I always assume the other vessel will not abide buy the rules, but I don't 
give way unless I feel it necessary. Usually that means our distances are still 
far enough apart to avoid last minute confusion.
S/V La Neige
1993 C 37/40 XL
Havre de Grace , MD
FB blog : thenext14years
Brian and Manon
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Re: Stus-List Pulling engine from C 40 Aft Cabin

[PETER OCAMPO via CnC-List]

Hi don

I have the same set up when you do it can you take pictures eventually I will 
have to do it 

In the fall I have to do the rudder 

Peter
C 40 aft 1983
Goonie island. 
Portland me

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 18, 2017, at 12:13 PM, Don Marlin via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> I am planning to pull the engine from my C 40 Aft Cabin this fall.
> The goals are to clean the engine area and redo the sound insulation.
> I will also change the engine mounts and inspect the PYI dripless.
> I may overhaul the engine (Westerbeke W33 with about 3200 hours).
> There is nothing specifically wrong with the engine, it starts and runs well.
> I will do the obvious, compression test, valve adjust, look for leaks, 
> replace hoses etc.
> 
> Looking for anyone on the list who has pulled the engine on this particular 
> model.
> The aft cabin has a V-Drive and a fairly unique engine arrangement.
> I would be interested in any advice or tips in doing this.
> 
> ​Thanks in advance
> ​
> -- 
> Don Marlin
> ​SV Indulgence C 40​
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!