Re: Stus-List CnC-List Digest, Vol 144, Issue 88

2018-01-25 Thread Jim Watts via CnC-List 
Please put in a real subject and trim all the excess bits from your posts.
Thanks a bunch.

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

On 25 January 2018 at 15:33, Opt online via CnC-List 
wrote:

> CT has the same rules for documented vessels which our 37+ is (sticker but
> no bow numbers ).  I put the stickers on the mast just above the partners.
>   Visible but not obtrusive.
>
> Rich Hulit
> 917 854-5537
> rhhu...@optonline.net
> Sent from my iPhone please excuse typos
>
> > On Jan 25, 2018, at 6:06 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> >
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> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. Re:  "Maritime Documentation Center" (David Castor)
> >   2. Re:  "Maritime Documentation Center" (Dreuge)
> >   3. Re:  "Maritime Documentation Center" (BillBinaList)
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 22:50:54 +
> > From: David Castor 
> > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > Subject: Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"
> > Message-ID:
> >

Stus-List C 24 Mainsheet Traveler

2018-01-25 Thread Doug Ellmore via CnC-List 
I am wonder if anyone has installed an elevated mainsheet traveler over the
tiller of a C 24?

I am consider building something like found on this McGregor:
https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/boom-vang-on-traveler.168335/

-- 
Doug
s/v Red Sky, C 24, #102

d...@ellmore.net
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Re: Stus-List CnC-List Digest, Vol 144, Issue 88

2018-01-25 Thread Opt online via CnC-List 
CT has the same rules for documented vessels which our 37+ is (sticker but no 
bow numbers ).  I put the stickers on the mast just above the partners.
Visible but not obtrusive.  

Rich Hulit
917 854-5537
rhhu...@optonline.net
Sent from my iPhone please excuse typos

> On Jan 25, 2018, at 6:06 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
>cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re:  "Maritime Documentation Center" (David Castor)
>   2. Re:  "Maritime Documentation Center" (Dreuge)
>   3. Re:  "Maritime Documentation Center" (BillBinaList)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 22:50:54 +
> From: David Castor 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"
> Message-ID:
>

Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

2018-01-25 Thread BillBinaList via CnC-List 


IS A DOCUMENTED VESSEL EXEMPT FROM STATE JURISDICTION?

No, all documented vessels must comply with the laws of the state in 
which they are operated. The vessel's document must be shown to state 
law enforcement personnel upon their demand. States may require 
documented vessels to be registered (but not numbered) and to display 
state decals showing that they have complied with state requirements.



Bill Bina


On 1/25/2018 3:33 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List wrote:


Now you’ve really hit a sore spot with me.

I have NO love for the PA Fish and Boat Commission,

And have been pulled over a few times by them. They like to ask where 
my PA decals are, and I point to the nearly indelible round temporary 
stickers I put on the bow, and note with that as proof that I had paid 
the Sales Tax in 1997.   Of course they want the current sticker, and 
I tell them that these are Federal Waters, not PA State Waters, the 
boat is documented and that is that. Well, of course then they get all 
huffy, and once they just asked where the boat was docked, slip, etc, 
like they were going to do something and I never heard from them.


Another time, last summer in fact, they did another check, and wanted 
to see life jackets, fire extinguishers, etc, and then got to the 
sticker issue.  I told them that I had in fact paid for a current 
sticker (I had decided a couple years ago to re-up my sticker, just to 
keep them off my back, but I just couldn’t bring myself to put them on 
bow.)


I couldn’t find the stickers right then, and they said they were going 
to check. They had a laptop, I told to check right there, but for some 
reason they couldn’t tap in to the Dep of Revenue site or something.  
I never heard from them again.  But I did find my stickers the next 
day, they were current.


This below is an article I copied out of the BoatUS Magazine several 
years ago on the subject.


<<"Why I put Pa. numbers on a federally documented Boat, just  a  few  
notes  on  your 'documentation ' issue:


In Pa.,  the  Fish and  Boat  Commission can  and  will pull over  
any   boat  lacking the PA  registration  numbers  on the  bow.  We  
have a  federally  documented  boat  but  paid the  PA  sales tax  on  
it  when we  bought  it . We registered  with the  F & B People   at 
this  time and  got  the PA numbers.  We did  not  care  to  put the 
PA  numbers  on the bow  believing  we  were  'federally  documented' 
and  it was  not required.


On a  windy  3rd  of  July , we  were pulled over  by  F We  
explained  it was  a  documented  boat, not  required by  federal law 
to display  ANY  state  stickers. (We  were  in fact OUT of the  
jurisdiction of the  F & B  , as  we  were on Lake  Erie,  a  federal 
navigable  waterway. The  PA  F    jurisdiction only  extends  to PA 
inland   Lakes  like Lake  Arthur, and PA  waterways,  like  Oil 
Creek. (and Erie  is NOT  a  PA inland  lake)  The  F  has  no  
jurisdiction over navigable  federal waterways, (Like the  Allegheny  
River  below  the uppermost  lock, etc.) It  took these F   guys an  
hour  to  pull us  over, look  at  our  PA registration certificate 
(which WAS  current) ,   and  call someone in Harrisburg  to  decide 
whether  to  issue  us   the  $150 ticket  they were threatening.  (By 
the  way  F  also  has the 'right' to  forbid  you to  use  any  PA  
state  park  for haul  in  UNTIL  you  get the PA numbers ) This  
'arrest'   happened  to  us  on  a windy holiday weekend ,  with  
guests  on  board.  It  was  very  disruptive  of the  holiday spirit  
and  I must  say  the  F  guy  was belligerent,  rude  and  
thoroughly unpleasant  to deal  with . (You  may  have  seen the  same 
F  Officer who 'arrested '  us  on his  patrol in the  Presque Isle 
marina--he is  the portly  gentleman,   smoking  his  cigar  while  
moored  at the  gas  dock at Presque isle  state  park,  near  the NO 
SMOKING  sign.. but  that  is another  matter...)


So you  certainly  have a legal  right NOT  to  have  PA numbers   on  
your  bow-- but  do  you  want the  hassle of  getting  pulled over 
for  an  hour    every  time a  F  sees  your boat  without  PA 
numbers?  And  do  you want to  fight the  $150 ticket,  and  
lose  more time   out of your  short  boating  season  ??


Numbers not required on bow, see

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/nvdcfaq.asp#22 >>

Bill Coleman

C 39 Erie, PAanimated_favicon1






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Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

2018-01-25 Thread BillBinaList via CnC-List 
States may require registration for documented vessels, but they cannot 
require you to display registration numbers on the boat. They may 
require display of a sticker indicating that state fees/taxes have been 
paid. Federal laws always supersede state law.  It violates Federal Law 
to display state registration numbers on a federally documented vessel.


Bill Bina


On 1/25/2018 5:50 PM, David Castor via CnC-List wrote:

Annual sticker that is paid for every year.



On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 2:31 PM svpegasus38 via CnC-List 
> wrote:


Same with Washington. State. Just have to display the state
sticker on documented vessels.



Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
Doug Mountjoy
POYC
Rebecca Leah
Lf39

 Original message 
From: schiller via CnC-List >
Date: 1/25/18 13:40 (GMT-08:00)
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: schiller >
Subject: Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

Michigan requires that you display the Michigan Registration
sticker on documented boats.  You will get a registration number
when you register the boat but you do not have to display them. 
Before I renewed the documentation on Corsair (Redwing 35), I
displayed the registration numbers on a plastic panels hung from
the bow lifelines.  Michigan has now outlawed that so I documented
Corsair.  I hate putting registration numbers on the fiberglass
bow.  Grace (C 35-3) already had registration numbers on the bow
and has never been documented.

Interestingly enough, the water cops all think any boat over 25'
that doesn't display registration numbers must be documented so
they don't check.  Even if they aren't displaying the registration
sticker.

Neil Schiller
Old: 1970 Redwing 35 (C 35, Mark I), Hull #7
New: 1983 C 35-3, #028
White Lake, Michigan
WLYC

On 1/25/2018 4:13 PM, Jack Brennan via CnC-List wrote:

Florida has a wonderful discount for “antique” vessels at least
30 years old.
I think I pay $5 a year – as opposed to maybe $135 – because I
sail a good old boat. Florida also requires a state decal for
federally documented vessels such as mine, by the way.
Jack Brennan
Former C 25
Shanachie, 1974 Bristol 30
Tierra Verde, Fl.
*From:* Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List
*Sent:* Thursday, January 25, 2018 3:55 PM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Cc:* Matthew L. Wolford
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"
Yes, it’s a sore subject for PA boaters on Lake Erie.  The law
was changed several years ago to require State registration of
Federally documented recreational vessels. Registrations last two
years, then must be renewed.  I don’t put my stickers on the bow,
but they are affixed to fiberglass supports (port and starboard)
for the main traveler and are clearly visible.  Don’t want to
give my good friends at the PFBC another reason to board.
**



Virus-free. www.avast.com




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Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

2018-01-25 Thread Dreuge via CnC-List 
I love the antique vessel discount.   I pay more to register my 8’ dinghy than 
I do for my 38’ sailboat.  It is also documented so I have no numbers on the 
bow, just the registration sticker which is placed low on the mast, port side.

-
Paul E.
1981 C 38 Landfall 
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

> On Jan 25, 2018, at 5:36 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 16:13:09 -0500
> From: "Jack Brennan"  >
> To: >
> Subject: Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"
> Message-ID: <61C5D7DF0F42416982F032D6072D3EFB@jackPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Florida has a wonderful discount for ?antique? vessels at least 30 years old.
> I think I pay $5 a year ? as opposed to maybe $135 ? because I sail a good 
> old boat. Florida also requires a state decal for federally documented 
> vessels such as mine, by the way.
> Jack Brennan
> Former C 25
> Shanachie, 1974 Bristol 30
> Tierra Verde, Fl.
> From: Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List 
> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 3:55 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  
> Cc: Matthew L. Wolford 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"
> 
> Yes, it?s a sore subject for PA boaters on Lake Erie.  The law was changed 
> several years ago to require State registration of Federally documented 
> recreational vessels.  Registrations last two years, then must be renewed.  I 
> don?t put my stickers on the bow, but they are affixed to fiberglass supports 
> (port and starboard) for the main traveler and are clearly visible.  Don?t 
> want to give my good friends at the PFBC another reason to board.
> 
> 

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Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

2018-01-25 Thread David Castor via CnC-List 
Annual sticker that is paid for every year.



On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 2:31 PM svpegasus38 via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Same with Washington. State. Just have to display the state sticker on
> documented vessels.
>
>
>
> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
> Doug Mountjoy
> POYC
> Rebecca Leah
> Lf39
>
>  Original message 
> From: schiller via CnC-List 
> Date: 1/25/18 13:40 (GMT-08:00)
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: schiller 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"
>
> Michigan requires that you display the Michigan Registration sticker on
> documented boats.  You will get a registration number when you register the
> boat but you do not have to display them.  Before I renewed the
> documentation on Corsair (Redwing 35), I displayed the registration numbers
> on a plastic panels hung from the bow lifelines.  Michigan has now outlawed
> that so I documented Corsair.  I hate putting registration numbers on the
> fiberglass bow.  Grace (C 35-3) already had registration numbers on the
> bow and has never been documented.
>
> Interestingly enough, the water cops all think any boat over 25' that
> doesn't display registration numbers must be documented so they don't
> check.  Even if they aren't displaying the registration sticker.
>
> Neil Schiller
> Old: 1970 Redwing 35 (C 35, Mark I), Hull #7
> New: 1983 C 35-3, #028
> White Lake, Michigan
> WLYC
>
> On 1/25/2018 4:13 PM, Jack Brennan via CnC-List wrote:
>
> Florida has a wonderful discount for “antique” vessels at least 30 years
> old.
>
> I think I pay $5 a year – as opposed to maybe $135 – because I sail a good
> old boat. Florida also requires a state decal for federally documented
> vessels such as mine, by the way.
>
> Jack Brennan
> Former C 25
> Shanachie, 1974 Bristol 30
> Tierra Verde, Fl.
> *From:* Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 25, 2018 3:55 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Matthew L. Wolford
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"
>
> Yes, it’s a sore subject for PA boaters on Lake Erie.  The law was changed
> several years ago to require State registration of Federally documented
> recreational vessels.  Registrations last two years, then must be renewed.
> I don’t put my stickers on the bow, but they are affixed to fiberglass
> supports (port and starboard) for the main traveler and are clearly
> visible.  Don’t want to give my good friends at the PFBC another reason to
> board.
>
>
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> 
> <#m_-8901797830081342471_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
>
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>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
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>
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Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

2018-01-25 Thread Randy Stafford via CnC-List 
In Colorado, USCG-documented vessels are exempt from the requirement to be 
registered in the state.  
http://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Boating/BoatingRegulations.pdf 
, pg.28, 
statute 33-13-103(1)(b).

Cheers,
Randy

> On Jan 25, 2018, at 3:30 PM, svpegasus38 via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Same with Washington. State. Just have to display the state sticker on 
> documented vessels. 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
> Doug Mountjoy 
> POYC 
> Rebecca Leah 
> Lf39
> 
>  Original message 
> From: schiller via CnC-List  > 
> Date: 1/25/18 13:40 (GMT-08:00)
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Cc: schiller  > 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"
> 
> Michigan requires that you display the Michigan Registration sticker on 
> documented boats.  You will get a registration number when you register the 
> boat but you do not have to display them.  Before I renewed the documentation 
> on Corsair (Redwing 35), I displayed the registration numbers on a plastic 
> panels hung from the bow lifelines.  Michigan has now outlawed that so I 
> documented Corsair.  I hate putting registration numbers on the fiberglass 
> bow.  Grace (C 35-3) already had registration numbers on the bow and has 
> never been documented.
> 
> Interestingly enough, the water cops all think any boat over 25' that doesn't 
> display registration numbers must be documented so they don't check.  Even if 
> they aren't displaying the registration sticker.
> 
> Neil Schiller
> Old: 1970 Redwing 35 (C 35, Mark I), Hull #7
> New: 1983 C 35-3, #028
> White Lake, Michigan
> WLYC
> 
> On 1/25/2018 4:13 PM, Jack Brennan via CnC-List wrote:
>> Florida has a wonderful discount for “antique” vessels at least 30 years old.
>>  
>> I think I pay $5 a year – as opposed to maybe $135 – because I sail a good 
>> old boat. Florida also requires a state decal for federally documented 
>> vessels such as mine, by the way.
>>  
>> Jack Brennan
>> Former C 25
>> Shanachie, 1974 Bristol 30
>> Tierra Verde, Fl.
>> From: Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List <>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 3:55 PM
>> To:  <>cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
>> Cc: Matthew L. Wolford <>
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"
>>  
>> Yes, it’s a sore subject for PA boaters on Lake Erie.  The law was changed 
>> several years ago to require State registration of Federally documented 
>> recreational vessels.  Registrations last two years, then must be renewed.  
>> I don’t put my stickers on the bow, but they are affixed to fiberglass 
>> supports (port and starboard) for the main traveler and are clearly visible. 
>>  Don’t want to give my good friends at the PFBC another reason to board.
>>  
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  Virus-free. www.avast.com 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
>> 
>> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
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Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

2018-01-25 Thread svpegasus38 via CnC-List 
Same with Washington. State. Just have to display the state sticker on 
documented vessels. 


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE DeviceDoug Mountjoy POYC Rebecca Leah Lf39
 Original message From: schiller via CnC-List 
 Date: 1/25/18  13:40  (GMT-08:00) To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: schiller  Subject: Re: 
Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center" 

Michigan requires that you display the Michigan
  Registration sticker on documented boats.  You will get a
  registration number when you register the boat but you do not have
  to display them.  Before I renewed the documentation on Corsair
  (Redwing 35), I displayed the registration numbers on a plastic
  panels hung from the bow lifelines.  Michigan has now outlawed
  that so I documented Corsair.  I hate putting registration numbers
  on the fiberglass bow.  Grace (C 35-3) already had
  registration numbers on the bow and has never been documented.

  

  Interestingly enough, the water cops all think any boat over 25'
  that doesn't display registration numbers must be documented so
  they don't check.  Even if they aren't displaying the registration
  sticker.

  

  Neil Schiller

  Old: 1970 Redwing 35 (C 35, Mark I), Hull #7

  New: 1983 C 35-3, #028

  White Lake, Michigan

  WLYC



On 1/25/2018 4:13 PM, Jack Brennan via
  CnC-List wrote:



  
  
  
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}

  


  

  
Florida
  has a wonderful discount for “antique” vessels at least 30
  years old.
  
  
 
  
  
I
  think I pay $5 a year – as opposed to maybe $135 – because
  I sail a good old boat. Florida also requires a state
  decal for federally documented vessels such as mine, by
  the way.
  
  
 
  
  Jack Brennan
  Former C 25
  Shanachie, 1974 Bristol 30

Tierra Verde, Fl.
  

  
From: Matthew
L. Wolford via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 3:55 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Matthew L. Wolford 
Subject: Re: Stus-List "Maritime
  Documentation Center"
  

 
  
  

  
Yes, it’s a sore subject for PA boaters on Lake
  Erie.  The law was changed several years ago to
  require State registration of Federally documented
  recreational vessels.  Registrations last two years,
  then must be renewed.  I don’t put my stickers on the
  bow, but they are affixed to fiberglass supports (port
  and starboard) for the main traveler and are clearly
  visible.  Don’t want to give my good friends at the
  PFBC another reason to board.

  
 
 
  

  

  

  
  


  

  
  Virus-free. www.avast.com 

  

 
  

  
  

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  ___

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Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

2018-01-25 Thread Jack Brennan via CnC-List 
Florida has a wonderful discount for “antique” vessels at least 30 years old.
I think I pay $5 a year – as opposed to maybe $135 – because I sail a good old 
boat. Florida also requires a state decal for federally documented vessels such 
as mine, by the way.
Jack Brennan
Former C 25
Shanachie, 1974 Bristol 30
Tierra Verde, Fl.
From: Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 3:55 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Matthew L. Wolford
Subject: Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

Yes, it’s a sore subject for PA boaters on Lake Erie.  The law was changed 
several years ago to require State registration of Federally documented 
recreational vessels.  Registrations last two years, then must be renewed.  I 
don’t put my stickers on the bow, but they are affixed to fiberglass supports 
(port and starboard) for the main traveler and are clearly visible.  Don’t want 
to give my good friends at the PFBC another reason to board.



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Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

2018-01-25 Thread Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List 
Yes, it’s a sore subject for PA boaters on Lake Erie.  The law was changed 
several years ago to require State registration of Federally documented 
recreational vessels.  Registrations last two years, then must be renewed.  I 
don’t put my stickers on the bow, but they are affixed to fiberglass supports 
(port and starboard) for the main traveler and are clearly visible.  Don’t want 
to give my good friends at the PFBC another reason to board.

From: Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 3:33 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Bill Coleman 
Subject: Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

Now you’ve really hit a sore spot with me.

I have NO love for the PA Fish and Boat Commission, 

And have been pulled over a few times by them. They like to ask where my PA 
decals are, and I point to the nearly indelible round temporary stickers I put 
on the bow, and note with that as proof that I had paid the Sales Tax in 1997.  
 Of course they want the current sticker, and I tell them that these are 
Federal Waters, not PA State Waters, the boat is documented and that is that.  
Well, of course then they get all huffy, and once they just asked where the 
boat was docked, slip, etc, like they were going to do something and I never 
heard from them.

Another time, last summer in fact, they did another check, and wanted to see 
life jackets, fire extinguishers, etc, and then got to the sticker issue.  I 
told them that I had in fact paid for a current sticker (I had decided a couple 
years ago to re-up my sticker, just to keep them off my back, but I just 
couldn’t bring myself to put them on bow.)

I couldn’t find the stickers right then, and they said they were going to 
check. They had a laptop, I told to check right there, but for some reason they 
couldn’t tap in to the Dep of Revenue site or something.  I never heard from 
them again.  But I did find my stickers the next day, they were current.

 

This below is an article I copied out of the BoatUS Magazine several years ago 
on the subject.

 

<<"Why I put Pa. numbers on a federally documented Boat, just  a  few  notes  
on  your 'documentation '   issue: 

 

In Pa.,  the  Fish and  Boat  Commission can  and  will pull  over  any   boat  
lacking the PA  registration  numbers  on the  bow.  We  have a  federally  
documented  boat  but  paid the  PA  sales  tax  on  it  when  we  bought  it . 
We registered  with the  F & B  People   at this  time and  got  the PA 
numbers.  We did  not  care  to  put the  PA  numbers  on the  bow  believing  
we  were  'federally  documented' and  it was  not required.  

 

On a  windy  3rd  of  July , we  were pulled over  by  F We  explained  it 
was  a  documented  boat, not  required  by  federal law to  display  ANY  
state  stickers. (We  were  in fact OUT of the  jurisdiction of the  F & B  , 
as  we  were on Lake  Erie,  a  federal  navigable  waterway. The  PA  F
jurisdiction only  extends  to PA  inland   Lakes  like Lake  Arthur, and PA  
waterways,  like  Oil Creek. (and   Erie  is NOT  a  PA inland  lake)  The  F 
 has  no  jurisdiction over   navigable  federal  waterways, (Like the  
Allegheny  River  below  the uppermost  lock, etc.)It  took these F   
guys an  hour  to  pull us  over,   look  at  our  PA  registration certificate 
(which WAS  current) ,   and  call someone in  Harrisburg  to  decide whether  
to  issue  us   the  $150  ticket  they were  threatening.  (By the  way  F  
also  has the 'right'  to  forbid  you  to  use  any  PA  state  park  for haul 
 in  UNTIL  you  get the PA  numbers ) This  'arrest'   happened  to  us  
on  a  windy holiday weekend ,  with  guests  on  board.  It  was  very  
disruptive  of the  holiday  spirit  and  I must  say  the  F  guy  was  
belligerent,  rude  and  thoroughly unpleasant  to deal  with . (You  may  have 
 seen the  same  F  Officer who 'arrested '  us  on his  patrol in the  
Presque Isle marina--he is  the  portly  gentleman,   smoking  his  cigar  
while  moored  at the  gas  dock at  Presque isle  state  park,  near  the NO 
SMOKING  sign..  but  that  is  another  matter...)

 

So you  certainly  have a legal  right NOT  to  have  PA numbers   on  your  
bow-- but  do  you  want the  hassle  of  getting  pulled  over for  an  hour   
 every  time a  F  sees  your  boat  without  PA  numbers?  And  do  you 
want to  fight the  $150  ticket,  and  lose  more  time   out of your  short  
boating  season  ??

Numbers not required on bow, see

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/nvdcfaq.asp#22  >>

 

Bill Coleman

C 39 Erie, PA

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Matthew L. 
Wolford via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 8:38 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Matthew L. Wolford
Subject: Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

 

I also need to purchase a decal from the Department of Homeland Security to 
sail across Lake Erie ($27.50).  No paperwork to

Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

2018-01-25 Thread Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
Now you’ve really hit a sore spot with me.

I have NO love for the PA Fish and Boat Commission, 

And have been pulled over a few times by them. They like to ask where my PA 
decals are, and I point to the nearly indelible round temporary stickers I put 
on the bow, and note with that as proof that I had paid the Sales Tax in 1997.  
 Of course they want the current sticker, and I tell them that these are 
Federal Waters, not PA State Waters, the boat is documented and that is that.  
Well, of course then they get all huffy, and once they just asked where the 
boat was docked, slip, etc, like they were going to do something and I never 
heard from them.

Another time, last summer in fact, they did another check, and wanted to see 
life jackets, fire extinguishers, etc, and then got to the sticker issue.  I 
told them that I had in fact paid for a current sticker (I had decided a couple 
years ago to re-up my sticker, just to keep them off my back, but I just 
couldn’t bring myself to put them on bow.)

I couldn’t find the stickers right then, and they said they were going to 
check. They had a laptop, I told to check right there, but for some reason they 
couldn’t tap in to the Dep of Revenue site or something.  I never heard from 
them again.  But I did find my stickers the next day, they were current.

 

This below is an article I copied out of the BoatUS Magazine several years ago 
on the subject.

 

<<"Why I put Pa. numbers on a federally documented Boat, just  a  few  notes  
on  your 'documentation '   issue: 

 

In Pa.,  the  Fish and  Boat  Commission can  and  will pull  over  any   boat  
lacking the PA  registration  numbers  on the  bow.  We  have a  federally  
documented  boat  but  paid the  PA  sales  tax  on  it  when  we  bought  it . 
We registered  with the  F & B  People   at this  time and  got  the PA 
numbers.  We did  not  care  to  put the  PA  numbers  on the  bow  believing  
we  were  'federally  documented' and  it was  not required.  

 

On a  windy  3rd  of  July , we  were pulled over  by  F We  explained  it 
was  a  documented  boat, not  required  by  federal law to  display  ANY  
state  stickers. (We  were  in fact OUT of the  jurisdiction of the  F & B  , 
as  we  were on Lake  Erie,  a  federal  navigable  waterway. The  PA  F
jurisdiction only  extends  to PA  inland   Lakes  like Lake  Arthur, and PA  
waterways,  like  Oil Creek. (and   Erie  is NOT  a  PA inland  lake)  The  F 
 has  no  jurisdiction over   navigable  federal  waterways, (Like the  
Allegheny  River  below  the uppermost  lock, etc.)It  took these F   
guys an  hour  to  pull us  over,   look  at  our  PA  registration certificate 
(which WAS  current) ,   and  call someone in  Harrisburg  to  decide whether  
to  issue  us   the  $150  ticket  they were  threatening.  (By the  way  F  
also  has the 'right'  to  forbid  you  to  use  any  PA  state  park  for haul 
 in  UNTIL  you  get the PA  numbers ) This  'arrest'   happened  to  us  
on  a  windy holiday weekend ,  with  guests  on  board.  It  was  very  
disruptive  of the  holiday  spirit  and  I must  say  the  F  guy  was  
belligerent,  rude  and  thoroughly unpleasant  to deal  with . (You  may  have 
 seen the  same  F  Officer who 'arrested '  us  on his  patrol in the  
Presque Isle marina--he is  the  portly  gentleman,   smoking  his  cigar  
while  moored  at the  gas  dock at  Presque isle  state  park,  near  the NO 
SMOKING  sign..  but  that  is  another  matter...)

 

So you  certainly  have a legal  right NOT  to  have  PA numbers   on  your  
bow-- but  do  you  want the  hassle  of  getting  pulled  over for  an  hour   
 every  time a  F  sees  your  boat  without  PA  numbers?  And  do  you 
want to  fight the  $150  ticket,  and  lose  more  time   out of your  short  
boating  season  ??

Numbers not required on bow, see

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/nvdcfaq.asp#22  >>

 

Bill Coleman

C 39 Erie, PAanimated_favicon1

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Matthew L. 
Wolford via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 8:38 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Matthew L. Wolford
Subject: Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

 

I also need to purchase a decal from the Department of Homeland Security to 
sail across Lake Erie ($27.50).  No paperwork to process other than 
self-generated to collect the fee.  And of course the Commonwealth of 
Pennsylvania needs its registration fee because being Federally documented is 
not good enough.

 

From: Ron Ricci via   CnC-List 

Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 8:22 PM

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 

Cc: Ron Ricci   

Subject: Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

 

I also received the notice.  Somehow, the USCG Documentation Center enables 
these guys by providing mailing the list of documented boats.  They are taking 
advantage of an

Re: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

2018-01-25 Thread Steve Staten via CnC-List 
This same scam operates for website domain names. The actual cost of renewing 
our domain name is about the same for registering your boat. The last fake 
invoice that we received was for ten times that amount with the usual “no 
obligation to pay” proviso. I call it a “Stupid Tax”. I imagine all sort of 
certifications that must be renewed are targeted. Beauty Salon operators, for 
instance, or tattoo parlors. If you hurry, you could get in on the ground floor 
scamming the recently-legalized marijuana growers.

Steve Staten
“C’Est La Vie”, C 27
Langley, OK

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Coleman 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:38 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Bill Coleman
Subject: Stus-List "Maritime Documentation Center"

Just got my EARLY supposed Documentation Renewal from the "Maritime 
Documentation Center"

I think the USCG must have taken heed of all the complaints, as these people 
have really toned down their ‘Renewal’
There is no amount to pay, and now little bits in there like , This is a 
courtesy notice,  This is not an invoice,  you are under no obligation to pay, 
etc –
Things that were not in their notice in past years.

I am sure they will still snag some people who are either not paying attention, 
or are too busy to notice.

Bill Coleman
C 39 Erie, PA[animated_favicon1]

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Re: Stus-List Masthead sheaves C 37+

2018-01-25 Thread Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
Josh,

Good to know!

Joel


Virus-free.
www.avg.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 10:51 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I reached out to the internet for some more info on sheave and rope
> sizes.  I stumbled upon a Marlow website which was loaded with technical
> details.  They had a FAQ section and then a submit your own question
> section.  Here is their answer.
>
> We normally say the ideal groove is one that has a width around 10-15%
> bigger than the rope diameter and has a semicircle profile.  The reason for
> this is that it supports the rope's shape without causing abrasion or
> distortion.  If the groove is too small then the rope rubs against the
> sides when entering and leaving the sheave and is squeezed, this causes
> abrasion and can accelerate rope wear.  If the groove is too big it allows
> the rope to distort and flatten as it enters the sheave, this will cause
> more internal abrasion and so accelerate fatigue.
>
> V grooves are normally used where the rope, or wire, is driving the sheave
> (or vice versa).  In this case the 'V' serves to increase the friction
> between the rope and the sheave at the expense of rope life.
>
> I hope this explains things.
>
> Regards,
> Paul Dyer | Technical Manager
> WWW.MARLOWROPES.COM
>
>
> So there you have it.  As previously discussed I'll be having the sheaves
> made with a 1/2" groove.  I'm willing to trade off slightly reduced service
> life for the versatility of a larger groove.  Hopefully this helps someone
> else.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
>
>
> On Jan 23, 2018 7:41 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Josh,
>>
>>
>>
>> I use the term stopper as a generic for sheet stoppers, halyard stoppers,
>> jammers, rope clutches, or almost any kind of mechanical cleat (except a
>> cam cleat.  I call those cam cleats).  I have some really old Schaefer rope
>> clutches that work just fine.  They hold 3/8” or 10mm line well, 7/16” most
>> of the time too.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don’t think there is any serious concern if the sheave is slightly too
>> large.  Yes, the halyard will be slightly flattened, as it will not be
>> supported quite as well, but as long as the difference is only 1/8” or so,
>> it’s not an issue.  A serious mismatch (1/4” or more) might be cause for
>> some concern, but it would be the long term damage from being repeatedly
>> flattened and reshaped as the line runs over the sheave.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jake
>>
>>
>>
>> *Jake Brodersen*
>>
>> *C 35 Mk-III “Midnight Mistress”*
>>
>> *Hampton VA*
>>
>> [image: cid:image001.png@01D2F43E.567E4070]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
>> Muckley via CnC-List
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 21:42
>> *To:* C List 
>> *Cc:* Josh Muckley 
>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Masthead sheaves C 37+
>>
>>
>>
>> Halyard stopper?  What's that?  Haha, no really what's that?  Stopper
>> balls?  Or jammers?
>>
>>
>>
>> You're right though 3/8ths is almost too small for my winches.  So
>> smaller is pretty unlikely.  But bigger might be nice, particularly if it
>> becomes necessary to run the taper of a core to core eye splice.
>>
>>
>>
>> The 3/8ths sta-set I have for my spin halyard is almost too small at
>> ~5000 lbs break strength.  I really like to make sure my lifting rigging is
>> sufficient for climbing standards.
>>
>>
>>
>> I guess my question is, is there any disadvantage to running smaller line
>> in a big sheave.
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh
>>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Masthead sheaves C 37+

2018-01-25 Thread Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
I reached out to the internet for some more info on sheave and rope sizes.
I stumbled upon a Marlow website which was loaded with technical details.
They had a FAQ section and then a submit your own question section.  Here
is their answer.

We normally say the ideal groove is one that has a width around 10-15%
bigger than the rope diameter and has a semicircle profile.  The reason for
this is that it supports the rope's shape without causing abrasion or
distortion.  If the groove is too small then the rope rubs against the
sides when entering and leaving the sheave and is squeezed, this causes
abrasion and can accelerate rope wear.  If the groove is too big it allows
the rope to distort and flatten as it enters the sheave, this will cause
more internal abrasion and so accelerate fatigue.

V grooves are normally used where the rope, or wire, is driving the sheave
(or vice versa).  In this case the 'V' serves to increase the friction
between the rope and the sheave at the expense of rope life.

I hope this explains things.

Regards,
Paul Dyer | Technical Manager
WWW.MARLOWROPES.COM


So there you have it.  As previously discussed I'll be having the sheaves
made with a 1/2" groove.  I'm willing to trade off slightly reduced service
life for the versatility of a larger groove.  Hopefully this helps someone
else.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Jan 23, 2018 7:41 PM,  wrote:

> Josh,
>
>
>
> I use the term stopper as a generic for sheet stoppers, halyard stoppers,
> jammers, rope clutches, or almost any kind of mechanical cleat (except a
> cam cleat.  I call those cam cleats).  I have some really old Schaefer rope
> clutches that work just fine.  They hold 3/8” or 10mm line well, 7/16” most
> of the time too.
>
>
>
> I don’t think there is any serious concern if the sheave is slightly too
> large.  Yes, the halyard will be slightly flattened, as it will not be
> supported quite as well, but as long as the difference is only 1/8” or so,
> it’s not an issue.  A serious mismatch (1/4” or more) might be cause for
> some concern, but it would be the long term damage from being repeatedly
> flattened and reshaped as the line runs over the sheave.
>
>
>
> Jake
>
>
>
> *Jake Brodersen*
>
> *C 35 Mk-III “Midnight Mistress”*
>
> *Hampton VA*
>
> [image: cid:image001.png@01D2F43E.567E4070]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
> Muckley via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 21:42
> *To:* C List 
> *Cc:* Josh Muckley 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Masthead sheaves C 37+
>
>
>
> Halyard stopper?  What's that?  Haha, no really what's that?  Stopper
> balls?  Or jammers?
>
>
>
> You're right though 3/8ths is almost too small for my winches.  So smaller
> is pretty unlikely.  But bigger might be nice, particularly if it becomes
> necessary to run the taper of a core to core eye splice.
>
>
>
> The 3/8ths sta-set I have for my spin halyard is almost too small at ~5000
> lbs break strength.  I really like to make sure my lifting rigging is
> sufficient for climbing standards.
>
>
>
> I guess my question is, is there any disadvantage to running smaller line
> in a big sheave.
>
>
>
> Josh
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray