Re: Stus-List Winterizing water system

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Be careful with any alcoholic beverages in your fresh water system – anything 
with lower concentration (and your vodka would be diluted) would be a great 
food for bacteria and other microorganisms leaving in dark places.

Marek
1994 C270 Legato
Ottawa, ON

From: robert via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 14:15
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: robert
Subject: Stus-List Winterizing water system

I try to keep it as simple as possibledrain the fresh water tank,
hot water tank into the bilge and then close up...keep the pressure
water system on and blow as much of the water from the hoses/taps/ hot
WT/showerpour approx 2 gallons of RV or Plumber's AF into the fresh
water tank and turn on the pressure system and have AF running from
every outletif that happens, then the hoses and pumps have AF in
them.  Run AF out through the head shower pump/hose(s).  Run AF out
through the electric bilge pump...out through the main bilge pump with
the cockpit handle.out the head.

A little AF gets into the hot water heater but the entire water system
gets fresh water flushed a few times each Spring  before the engine is
started and any heat gets to the hot water tank.  I make sure that if
there is any AF left in the hot water tank, it is flushed with fresh
water and no heat gets to the hot water tank with AF in it.

When I am ready to fill my fresh water tank to start the season, I add a
bottle of gin even though I don't drink the water from the tank.I
like the gin better than a tablespoon of bleach...yes it costs more but
it does a great job keeping the tank fresh.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - #277
Halifax, N.S.


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Re: Stus-List Winterizing water system

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

I never do anything but run the water out and then run pink stuff through. 
Drain both tanks, add 2 gallons of pink to each, and run it through the lines. 
One year I wanted running water all winter and just left the cabin heat turned 
up to 70. It was fine until a hose out in the unheated cockpit locker froze ☹
We have it easy: Back in the day when I worked on boats, it could be close to 
$1000 for winterizing a big powerboat.
2 big diesels, a generator, icemaker, 2 heads with showers, big hot water 
heater, and 2-4 air conditioners that needed pressure fed water. Oil change was 
enough of a PITA *in the water*, if the boat was already out getting a hose set 
up well enough to cool a 12 cylinder diesel with a 3 or 4 inch water intake 
hose was a giant PITA and then if the tranny dragged you had to have another 
hose on the cutless bearing and maybe a THIRD one for the stuffing box. Then 
you had the dinghy outboard!


Joe Della Barba
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I




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Stus-List Winterizing water system

[robert via CnC-List]

I try to keep it as simple as possibledrain the fresh water tank, 
hot water tank into the bilge and then close up...keep the pressure 
water system on and blow as much of the water from the hoses/taps/ hot 
WT/showerpour approx 2 gallons of RV or Plumber's AF into the fresh 
water tank and turn on the pressure system and have AF running from 
every outletif that happens, then the hoses and pumps have AF in 
them.  Run AF out through the head shower pump/hose(s).  Run AF out 
through the electric bilge pump...out through the main bilge pump with 
the cockpit handle.out the head.


A little AF gets into the hot water heater but the entire water system 
gets fresh water flushed a few times each Spring  before the engine is 
started and any heat gets to the hot water tank.  I make sure that if 
there is any AF left in the hot water tank, it is flushed with fresh 
water and no heat gets to the hot water tank with AF in it.


When I am ready to fill my fresh water tank to start the season, I add a 
bottle of gin even though I don't drink the water from the tank.I 
like the gin better than a tablespoon of bleach...yes it costs more but 
it does a great job keeping the tank fresh.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - #277
Halifax, N.S.


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Re: Stus-List Winterizing water system

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Francois,

How do you make sure that there is no water in the pump if you have the T 
_after_ the pump?

I guess in GA it is not a big deal (your winter is not as cold as here; I 
imagine you are hovering just below the freezing point).

Marek

1994 C270 Legato
Ottawa, ON

From: Francois Rivard via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 12:14
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Francois Rivard
Subject: Stus-List Winterizing water system

Hi All,

Pretty straightforward here:

Emptying the tanks:
I Just run the tanks dry by running the water thorough the faucets normally 
then clean / dry the tanks using paper towels through the access ports.

Adding the pink stuff:
There's a "T" fitting after the pump (Alleviates having to run alcohol through 
it) Just pump it in using $7.00 Walmart hand pump. Keep pumping until the stuff 
coming out pink of all faucets. I check 'em one by one, including the shower 
head .

30 minutes effort.

-Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier,GA




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Stus-List Winterizing water system

[Francois Rivard via CnC-List]

Hi All,

Pretty straightforward here:

Emptying the tanks:
I Just run the tanks dry by running the water thorough the faucets normally
then clean / dry the tanks using paper towels through the access ports.

Adding the pink stuff:
There's a "T" fitting after the pump (Alleviates having to run alcohol
through it) Just pump it in using $7.00 Walmart hand pump. Keep pumping
until the stuff coming out pink of all faucets. I check 'em one by one,
including the shower head .

30 minutes effort.

-Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier,GA
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Re: Stus-List Winterizing water system

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I pump my tanks dry, then use a shop-vac to blow into the hotwater tank
drain.  The drain is branched off of the cold water inlet to the heater so
this perfectly pressurizes the hot and cold system.  I systematically open
each faucet on hot and cold until all the water is gone.  Then I go to the
aforementioned tanks which have been pumped dry and add about 1/2 gallon to
each tank, then pump each tank down while cycling through each fixture.  I
then re-add a 1/2 gallon to each tank and pump again, cycling through each
fixture.

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/water_system_winterizing

Be careful, even just a little dilution can allow freezing.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD




On Sun, Nov 18, 2018, 7:11 PM Matthew Schlanger via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I agree for the tank. Just letting it drain should be fine. It’s the
> running antifreeze through the rest of the system that’s throwing me. Today
> I did blast the tank with a compressor and more water came out so I  like
> doing that. Just letting it drain wasn’t 100 percent, but likely good
> enough.
>
> I traced the hosing some. Too many disappear below the hot water tank to
> have a full picture. A saw a puddle of antifreeze there but could get to
> it. It makes sense to connect the input and outputs of the tank together
> but it didn’t work. I think the water pressure pump feeds a T that then
> runs to the cold on the galley sink. I think there is another T there which
> probably feeds the hand shower in the head. The hot water does the same
> thing. So connecting tank out to the T at the input of the tank should pump
> water, antifreeze, to both endpoints. But it’s not happening.
>
> For this season, given my failure, I am hoping just draining and pulling
> antifreeze through the hand and foot pumped lines will be enough. So far
> can’t figure it out.
>
> Matthew
> The Office
> C&C 35 Mk III
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 18, 2018, at 3:15 PM, dwight veinot via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> I leave mine drained and dry with hoses disconnected and i don’t blow with
> compressed. 15 years no problems same pump and hw tank. I like simple
>
> On Sun, Nov 18, 2018 at 12:39 PM Matthew Schlanger via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> I am trying to winterize my water system myself this year. I have a C& 35
>> mk3. I took the intake and output hoses off of the hot water tank, the
>> lower connection was a T, I think that was the cold water input. I attached
>> the hot to the cold water T, and let the water drain out of the tank. I
>> plan to go back to today to blast it with air from a compressor to make
>> sure. It takes a lot of energy and water to clear the pink antifreeze when
>> spring comes an I have heard this is a better way to go - you are just
>> never sure it’s all clear and don’t want to take any more antifreeze
>> showers. I put antifreeze in the tank and hand pumped to through the
>> passive lines but trying to use the pressure pump to fill the active lines,
>> it comes out the bilge and never through the pressurized faucets. Either I
>> busted a line or something weird is going on I have not figured it out yet.
>> I will try to trace the hoses and see what’s going on. Disconnecting the in
>> and out and tying them together was suggested by one of the boat mechanics
>> at the boatyard I am using this year, but that doesn’t mean he’s right.
>>
>> Any insight would be appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Matthew Schlanger
>> The Office
>> C&C 35 mk III
>> South Nyack, NY
>> ___
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>> --
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>
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>
>
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Re: Stus-List Winterizing water system

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

As far as the water heater goes, a by-pass is a great addition (about $30, if 
you buy one, make sure you buy the one with two valves!).

Pouring AF into the water heater is not a good idea – the taste and smell would 
stay almost forever, and you need a lot to saturate the heater tank with AF (it 
is not a simple case of displacing water). Instead, drain the water heater. I 
push most of the water from the WH using compressed air, the rest has to drain. 
Btw. be prepared that the last few cups of water would be dirty with sediment 
(you will have some sediment in the WH, almost regardless how clean it is), so 
you may not want to drain directly into the bilge.

If there is a little bit of water in the WH tank, it should not be a problem – 
it would have enough room to expand as it freezes.

If you want to be extra careful about all your fresh water system, you can push 
(or suck) the water from all lines, then run AF through the lines, and then 
push the AF out of the lines. this way, even if there are any low spots, you 
will have remnants of the AF in the lines, not water, but most of the lines 
would be free of AF, so there would be very little aftertaste.

The same applies, more or less, to the fresh water side of the engine cooling. 
Run AF through the system until what comes out is no longer diluted, but push 
the AF out of the system after that. This helps with any seals, plastic 
components (e.g. strainer) etc.

For pumping the AF through the system, buy an extra pump port (e.g.: Shurflo 
244-2926), add a half meter hose, unscrew the original pump port, attach this 
one, put the hose into the AF jug, and run the pump. Very simple process and it 
winterises the pump in the process.

Marek

1994 C270 Legato
Ottawa, ON

From: Steve Thomas via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:08
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Steve Thomas
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing water system

Shop vac has worked good for me. I found the rv alcohol antifreeze left a 
residual taste that was hard to clear, and I suspected that it was hard on 
rubber parts in the pump. Same idea as compressed air I guess, but suck instead 
of blow. Still have to pay attention to potential blockage by pumps and valves 
of course. Due dilligence.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley,ON

 Matthew Schlanger via CnC-List  wrote:
I agree for the tank. Just letting it drain should be fine. It’s the running 
antifreeze through the rest of the system that’s throwing me. Today I did blast 
the tank with a compressor and more water came out so I  like doing that. Just 
letting it drain wasn’t 100 percent, but likely good enough.

I traced the hosing some. Too many disappear below the hot water tank to have a 
full picture. A saw a puddle of antifreeze there but could get to it. It makes 
sense to connect the input and outputs of the tank together but it didn’t work. 
I think the water pressure pump feeds a T that then runs to the cold on the 
galley sink. I think there is another T there which probably feeds the hand 
shower in the head. The hot water does the same thing. So connecting tank out 
to the T at the input of the tank should pump water, antifreeze, to both 
endpoints. But it’s not happening.

For this season, given my failure, I am hoping just draining and pulling 
antifreeze through the hand and foot pumped lines will be enough. So far can’t 
figure it out.

Matthew
The Office
C&C 35 Mk III

Sent from my iPhone


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Re: Stus-List Winterizing water system

[Steve Thomas via CnC-List]

Shop vac has worked good for me. I found the rv alcohol antifreeze left a 
residual taste that was hard to clear, and I suspected that it was hard on 
rubber parts in the pump. Same idea as compressed air I guess, but suck instead 
of blow. Still have to pay attention to potential blockage by pumps and valves 
of course. Due dilligence. 

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley,ON

 Matthew Schlanger via CnC-List  wrote: 
I agree for the tank. Just letting it drain should be fine. It’s the running 
antifreeze through the rest of the system that’s throwing me. Today I did blast 
the tank with a compressor and more water came out so I  like doing that. Just 
letting it drain wasn’t 100 percent, but likely good enough. 

I traced the hosing some. Too many disappear below the hot water tank to have a 
full picture. A saw a puddle of antifreeze there but could get to it. It makes 
sense to connect the input and outputs of the tank together but it didn’t work. 
I think the water pressure pump feeds a T that then runs to the cold on the 
galley sink. I think there is another T there which probably feeds the hand 
shower in the head. The hot water does the same thing. So connecting tank out 
to the T at the input of the tank should pump water, antifreeze, to both 
endpoints. But it’s not happening. 

For this season, given my failure, I am hoping just draining and pulling 
antifreeze through the hand and foot pumped lines will be enough. So far can’t 
figure it out. 

Matthew
The Office
C&C 35 Mk III

Sent from my iPhone


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Re: Stus-List Engine Antifreeze

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

It is an environmentally hazard chemical. Use only what you need and change
only if you are absolutely certain that you need to. Changing prematurely
just to feel good about servicing your vehicle may not actually be good

On Sun, Nov 18, 2018 at 9:50 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I have seen auto parts stores with "used oil" tanks.  I feel like they
> also had a "used antifreeze" tank too.  Might want to give your local store
> a call.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37 +
> Solomons, MD
>
> On Sun, Nov 18, 2018, 7:20 PM Jim Reinardy via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
>
>> This is a tangent off the original question, but does anyone know what to
>> do with the old antifreeze?  My city will take motor oil but not
>> antifreeze.   It’s been holding me back from changing it out lately, but I
>> really need to do in the spring.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jim Reinardy
>> C&C 30-2 “Firewater”
>> Milwaukee, WI
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 18, 2018 at 9:16 AM -0600, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Robert,
>>>
>>> Below is a post I put on the board about a month ago, which speaks to
>>> the issue of the coolant itself.  Your boat may be sufficiently old that
>>> all its ever had is the standard green antifreeze, but nonetheless, you
>>> will probably find this interesting.  In the end, rather than having the
>>> concern about Dextron antifreeze causing head gasket leaks hang over my
>>> head, I am going to go with the newer "universal" long-life coolant, which
>>> I believe is yellow (though the color means nothing anymore).  As for the
>>> frequency of coolant changes, Yanmar now recommends changing it EVERY YEAR
>>> even if it is long-life coolant.  The primary job of coolant (other than
>>> keeping it from freezing) is stopping corrosion in the engine, and coolant
>>> breaks down over time (especially the old style green coolant).  This is
>>> why they developed "long life" coolant which is supposedly good for 5
>>> years.
>>>
>>> So, I'll probably plan on replacing the coolant every 2 years at the
>>> same time I replace my impeller.
>>>
>>> Hope you find the reading below helpful.
>>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> As a result of a concern about tracking down a potential antifreeze leak
>>> (which I haven't done yet), I wanted to confirm the coolant type.  There is
>>> no mention as to specific types either in my 3JH2E operating or service
>>> manuals.  Yes, I could go (way) out of my way to get Yanmar branded
>>> coolant, but let's face it - it is not only way more expensive, its
>>> available almost exclusively at Yanmar dealers, and the nearest one to me
>>> is 15 miles away and isn't open on Saturdays or Sundays.  And of course,
>>> what happens if you need more when you're out cruising?
>>>
>>> In doing research, I found the following bulletin, published by Mack
>>> Boring:
>>> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=2ahUKEwizh_zu8Y3eAhWOy1MKHSFlD3cQFjADegQIBxAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fldmarineservice.com%2Ffiles%2Fyanmar_bulletins.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3WK3R6vfJyTHOt5yGzFMDZ
>>>
>>> In the section about coolants, it recommends:
>>>
>>> Texaco Long Life Coolant, numbers 7991 and 7998.  Unfortunately, one
>>> really can't find either product on the web, so I can't seem to find if it
>>> was orange (DEXCOOL) or red for diesels, or for that matter if it was
>>> ethylene glycol or propylene glycol based.
>>>
>>> Havoline Extended Life Anti-Freeze/Coolant, number 7994.  Per this link,
>>> 7994 is DEX-COOL, but is ethylene glycol based.
>>> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwij_o2I843eAhWK0FMKHXc5AfMQFjAAegQICxAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rialtainfo.com%2Fvw%2Fvw_images%2Fradiator_%26_coolant.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3ZxHApMqFHHgB-qcUwOYWa
>>>
>>> Dex-Cool Long Life Coolant, which at least at the time of introduction
>>> was propylene glycol based and is Organic Acid Technology (OAT) thus
>>> meaning less toxic.  Funny thing is, Dex-Cool was not even introduced until
>>> a year after my boat was built (1995) and at the time, was only being used
>>> in GM cars.
>>>
>>> Prestone Extended Life Coolant, product code AF888.  Per the attached,
>>> guess what, it's Dex-Cool.
>>> https://www.autozone.com/antifreeze-radiator-additives-and-windshield-wash-fluid/antifreeze/prestone-antifreeze-engine-coolant/87934_0_0.
>>> It is ethylene glycol based, but Prestone says it is OAT, which would seem
>>> to conflict with what I can find about traditional Dex-Cool.
>>>
>>> Not entirely satisfied, I wanted to see what a Yanmar official
>>> publication recommended.  In a 2009 JH Series Operation Manual, it
>>> recommends Texaco 7997 and 7998 (same as above).  It also recommends
>>> Havoline 7994, as above.  It however says nothing about Dex-Cool or
>>> Prestone AF888.  I get similar results in a 3JH4E manual.
>>>
>>> Then, of course, I was faced with the fact that