Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[Jim Watts via CnC-List]

Yes. The geometry doesn't work unless the sheet is led underneath the
lifelines too. Easier to use a second sheet led through a block on the
toerail.

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC


On Wed, 21 Aug 2019 at 15:43, Wade Glew via CnC-List 
wrote:

> good pic John; thanks.   Is there a reason the twing line can't be
> attached outside the lifeline?
> Wade
> Oh Boy, C 33 MK II
>
> On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 11:09 AM Jim Watts via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> I use a simple twing setup...easy to attach, easy to trim, cheap. Up to
>> the point where you need to rig a second sheet outboard of the lifelines,
>> anyhow.
>> https://i.imgur.com/EwjDofL.jpg
>>
>> Jim Watts
>> Paradigm Shift
>> C 35 Mk III
>> Victoria, BC
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 21 Aug 2019 at 09:02, Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> John:
>>>
>>> Yes, leave the jib sheet attached.  Also, if you don’t like the
>>> position you get attaching the barber hauler line to the clew, you can also
>>> attach it to the jib sheet itself to deflect it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* John Conklin via CnC-List 
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 21, 2019 11:30 AM
>>> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> *Cc:* John Conklin 
>>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles
>>>
>>> All makes sense
>>> Based on replies Plan is to attach snatch block to toe rail mast area
>>> have the sheet run to and tied off at my extra winch on one end thru block
>>> and clipped off to upper lifeline tensioned to not flip around
>>> When reaching will attach this second line to clew  (leaving jib sheet
>>> attached??) and this should move clew outward the open the slot !
>>> Let try it !!
>>>
>>> Thanks all!
>>>
>>> John Conklin
>>> S/V Halcyon
>>> S/V Heartbeat
>>> www.flirtingwithfire.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>>
>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>>
>>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Stus-List Nicro/Marinco day/night vent motor replacement

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Well, I replaced the motor in Touche's Nicro Model 20703S day/night vent.
Cost for two motors delivered was under $10.  A new vent runs about $175.
In addition, Marinco no longer makes the 20703 model.  It has been replaced
by the 20803 model.  Last time the model changed, I had to modify the
mount, drill more holes in the deck, etc.  I didn't want to do that again.
I managed to find a new 20703S but it will be nice to have the old one as a
drop-in spare.

Here is the link to the repair document:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1DIcB97w4BUImn8-mOGs7sJaYY_9eBCX9

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
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Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[Wade Glew via CnC-List]

good pic John; thanks.   Is there a reason the twing line can't be attached
outside the lifeline?
Wade
Oh Boy, C 33 MK II

On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 11:09 AM Jim Watts via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I use a simple twing setup...easy to attach, easy to trim, cheap. Up to
> the point where you need to rig a second sheet outboard of the lifelines,
> anyhow.
> https://i.imgur.com/EwjDofL.jpg
>
> Jim Watts
> Paradigm Shift
> C 35 Mk III
> Victoria, BC
>
>
> On Wed, 21 Aug 2019 at 09:02, Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> John:
>>
>> Yes, leave the jib sheet attached.  Also, if you don’t like the
>> position you get attaching the barber hauler line to the clew, you can also
>> attach it to the jib sheet itself to deflect it.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* John Conklin via CnC-List 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 21, 2019 11:30 AM
>> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> *Cc:* John Conklin 
>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles
>>
>> All makes sense
>> Based on replies Plan is to attach snatch block to toe rail mast area
>> have the sheet run to and tied off at my extra winch on one end thru block
>> and clipped off to upper lifeline tensioned to not flip around
>> When reaching will attach this second line to clew  (leaving jib sheet
>> attached??) and this should move clew outward the open the slot !
>> Let try it !!
>>
>> Thanks all!
>>
>> John Conklin
>> S/V Halcyon
>> S/V Heartbeat
>> www.flirtingwithfire.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List C 35 MK III For Sale (New London, CT)

[David Jacobs via CnC-List]

Has the rod rigging ever been replaced?
Fresh or raw water cooled engine?
Pressure hot and cold water?
Age and condition of sails?

I sold my 1984 35 MK III 2 years ago, am currently sailing a 37’ Beneteau and 
am thinking about going back to the C

Thanks,
Dave Jacobs

> On Aug 21, 2019, at 12:04 PM, Brien Sadler via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> We have bought a new boat and have to let our TAZ go. I've only had her for a 
> few years but she has been great to us. Below is the link to her Facebook ad. 
> Please let anybody know that might be interested. 
> 
> R/
> 
> Brien Sadler
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2649261335107049/ 
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 

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Re: Stus-List C 35 MK III For Sale (New London, CT)

[John Conklin via CnC-List]

She’s beautiful!! Just 22 months too late would have jumped on that !!

John Conklin
S/V Halcyon
S/V Heartbeat
www.flirtingwithfire.com


On Aug 21, 2019, at 11:05 AM, Brien Sadler via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

We have bought a new boat and have to let our TAZ go. I've only had her for a 
few years but she has been great to us. Below is the link to her Facebook ad. 
Please let anybody know that might be interested.

R/

Brien Sadler

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2649261335107049/
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Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

Exactly – and you can move the block to wherever you think is most effective.  
Also, if you use this set-up, make sure the carabiner is sufficiently strong (I 
have seen cheap ones distort under load). 

Thanks, Jim.

From: Jim Watts via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 12:08 PM
To: 1 CnC List 
Cc: Jim Watts 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

I use a simple twing setup...easy to attach, easy to trim, cheap. Up to the 
point where you need to rig a second sheet outboard of the lifelines, anyhow. 

https://i.imgur.com/EwjDofL.jpg

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC



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Stus-List Sat phones Data Plans Grib Files

[Dan via CnC-List]

Hi guys,

First off - I've heard iridium go is slow and I can't seem to find one for
rent in Canada so that's out.

We're looking to rent a sat phone for one month to go off shore in October
for Berumda/BVIs from Canada. I've looked into iridium phones and Inmarsat
phones:

The Iridium 9555 can serve as a dial-up modem for your laptop but you pay
per minute of use just as though you made a voice call. I can rent one for
1 month at $300 + minutes.

The Inmarsat phones come with a data plan, and I assume you can plug them
into a PC. Does anyone have any experience with sat phone data?

Mainly I need to get a GRIB file attachment through an email attachment on
an inmarsat Sat phone for my weather, and transfer it to my PC.

What works best for doing this - dial up with Iridium or Data on Inmarsat?

Thanks guys,

Dan
Breakaweigh
C
Halifax, NS
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Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[Jim Watts via CnC-List]

I use a simple twing setup...easy to attach, easy to trim, cheap. Up to the
point where you need to rig a second sheet outboard of the lifelines,
anyhow.
https://i.imgur.com/EwjDofL.jpg

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC


On Wed, 21 Aug 2019 at 09:02, Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> John:
>
> Yes, leave the jib sheet attached.  Also, if you don’t like the
> position you get attaching the barber hauler line to the clew, you can also
> attach it to the jib sheet itself to deflect it.
>
>
>
> *From:* John Conklin via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 21, 2019 11:30 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* John Conklin 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles
>
> All makes sense
> Based on replies Plan is to attach snatch block to toe rail mast area have
> the sheet run to and tied off at my extra winch on one end thru block and
> clipped off to upper lifeline tensioned to not flip around
> When reaching will attach this second line to clew  (leaving jib sheet
> attached??) and this should move clew outward the open the slot !
> Let try it !!
>
> Thanks all!
>
> John Conklin
> S/V Halcyon
> S/V Heartbeat
> www.flirtingwithfire.com
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Stus-List C 35 MK III For Sale (New London, CT)

[Brien Sadler via CnC-List]

We have bought a new boat and have to let our TAZ go. I've only had her for
a few years but she has been great to us. Below is the link to her Facebook
ad. Please let anybody know that might be interested.

R/

Brien Sadler

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2649261335107049/
___

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Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

John:

Yes, leave the jib sheet attached.  Also, if you don’t like the position 
you get attaching the barber hauler line to the clew, you can also attach it to 
the jib sheet itself to deflect it.



From: John Conklin via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 11:30 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: John Conklin 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

All makes sense  
Based on replies Plan is to attach snatch block to toe rail mast area have the 
sheet run to and tied off at my extra winch on one end thru block and clipped 
off to upper lifeline tensioned to not flip around 
When reaching will attach this second line to clew  (leaving jib sheet 
attached??) and this should move clew outward the open the slot ! 
Let try it !! 

Thanks all!

John Conklin 

S/V Halcyon
S/V Heartbeat
www.flirtingwithfire.com


 ___

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Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[John Conklin via CnC-List]

All makes sense
Based on replies Plan is to attach snatch block to toe rail mast area have the 
sheet run to and tied off at my extra winch on one end thru block and clipped 
off to upper lifeline tensioned to not flip around
When reaching will attach this second line to clew  (leaving jib sheet 
attached??) and this should move clew outward the open the slot !
Let try it !!

Thanks all!

John Conklin
S/V Halcyon
S/V Heartbeat
www.flirtingwithfire.com


On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:36 AM, Shawn Wright via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

This sounds like a simple solution to rig up. If anyone has photos of their 
barber hauler or similar setup under use, please share!

Thanks
--
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
S/V Callisto, 1974 C 35
https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto


On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 7:28 AM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
I rig barberhaulers also. I attach a pulley on the toerail at the sweet spot, 
with a soft shackle and string up the top of the pulley to the lower lifeline 
so it doesn't flop around. I keep a short 5/16" diameter line for this purpose 
with a carabiner in one end and clip that to the upper lifeline when not in 
use. To engage the barberhauler, we simply clip it onto the clew cringle and 
adjust. We have to unclip the barberhauler before tacking, so the regular sheet 
needs to be tensioned before that, so some crew have complained about it's 
benefit because they have to remember to do that. I may try repositioning the 
pulley back a little and clipping onto the sheet instead.

I sail mostly solo now, so hope to use them as twings for the spinnaker 
sheet/guys. Any advice would be appreciated.

Chuck S Resolute 1990 C 34R

On August 21, 2019 at 9:51 AM Jeff Helsdingen via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

Thanks Dennis, that answered some questions. We were trying to figure out who 
or why there were pieces of toe rail there. Partially confusing because a 
previous owner also added job track and a different previous owner had a deck 
job done but didn't remove them. $75, what a deal..

Jeff
Caposhi
C 35 mk1 #54

On Tue., Aug. 20, 2019, 7:45 p.m. Dennis C. via CnC-List, < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
First, if you are racing, having the whisker pole on the same side as the boom 
may be prohibited in certain jurisdictions.

Barber hauling is a complicated configuration.  Basically, you are setting a 
triangle using two sheets to change location of the clew of the genoa.  
Generally, "barber haulers" can be set to move the clew inboard or outboard or 
forward (downward).  Inhauls or inhaulers can be used to move the clew inboard 
to decrease the sheeting angles.

Rather than get too deep into all of that, on Touche' we simply use what we 
call the "outboard sheet".  Touche' has an inboard genoa track with line 
adjustable genoa cars, as we steer more off the wind and ease the genoa sheet, 
we move the car forward to keep the leech from twisting off.  Our trigger to 
rig the outboard sheet is when the genoa sheet is eased enough that it begins 
to contact the upper lifeline.  At that point we attach a snatch block to the 
toe rail slightly FORWARD of directly below where the genoa sheet crosses the 
toe rail.

The outboard sheet has a snap shackle which we clip into the clew ring or the 
soft shackle on the clew of the genoa.  The tail is run to a secondary winch.  
We can control the inboard/outboard location of the clew by proportionally 
tensioning the primary sheet and the outboard sheet.  However, more often than 
not, we simply trim exclusively on the outboard sheet.

Our old C's like to "breathe".  Opening the slot allows that.  Also, moving 
the lead forward as the sheet is eased keeps the leech from twisting off and 
dumping power.  Touche' loves reaching with the outboard sheet.  In fact, in 
one distance race we lost 1st place by 20 seconds.  In retrospect, I think it's 
because we didn't rig the outboard sheet or move the car forward on a long 
reaching leg.

One thing to keep in mind is that many of the older boats did not come with an 
inboard track.  Touche' had short pieces of toe rail on the deck forward of the 
primary winches.  It was listed as an option on the original order as  "Inside 
fairleads rails" $75.  So, rigging an outboard sheet may simply be returning to 
an original configuration.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 2:49 PM David Knecht via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
I have been reading about Barber Haulers to help with reaching by getting the 
clew further outboard and keeping the leech from twisting off.  I was thinking 
of a snatch block on the toe rail and a line snap shackled to the clew 
attachment point to accomplish this.  However, I have also seen people using 
their whisker pole on the leeward side 

Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

On our 1990 C 34R:  When we sail close hauled the foot of the genoa is 
completely inside the lifelines and sheeted to the very aft end of our genoa 
track positioned on deck next to the cabin sides.  When reaching, the genoa 
needs to be trimmed outside the lifelines and sheeted to the toerail further 
forward.  I keep the usual sheets attached to the sail and add the barberhauler 
using a caribiner to attach it to the sail's clew.  I have been on boats that 
use a SS hook instead or a snap shackle could be used, but caribiners cost 20% 
of those and clip onto the lifelines to keep ready for use.


To use, simply trim the sails as normal, then unclip the barberhauler caribiner 
from the lifeline and clip onto the clew of the genoa and cleat the other end, 
then ease tension on the regular sheet until the barberhauler positions the 
genoa where the telltails are flowing how you like them, the slot is open and 
the main is not being backwinded.




Chuck S


> On August 20, 2019 at 9:45 PM Shawn Wright via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dennis, thanks for the detailed info. I'm trying to understand picture it 
> all, but am unclear on which sheet goes through the snatch block on the rail? 
> I have genoa tracks on the side deck but they are used for the inner 95% jib. 
> The outer genoa uses blocks on the toerail, which I haven't tried relocating, 
> although I do have a few snatch blocks I could add forward to try to 
> approximate the effect you're describing (I think). 
> How do you attach the outboard sheet to the clew once on a reach? Do you 
> have to luff up to do this? With our current arrangement, I know that I am 
> losing a lot of power with the genoa, but am not always sure how to fix it, 
> especially single handed. I suspect the genoa blocks are too far back on the 
> toerail for anything except close reach to close hauled, and when sheeted in 
> tight, they pull the lifelines inward. 
> 
> --
> Shawn Wright
> shawngwri...@gmail.com mailto:shawngwri...@gmail.com
> S/V Callisto, 1974 C 35
> https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

This sounds like a simple solution to rig up. If anyone has photos of their
barber hauler or similar setup under use, please share!

Thanks
--
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
S/V Callisto, 1974 C 35
https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto


On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 7:28 AM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I rig barberhaulers also. I attach a pulley on the toerail at the sweet
> spot, with a soft shackle and string up the top of the pulley to the lower
> lifeline so it doesn't flop around. I keep a short 5/16" diameter line for
> this purpose with a carabiner in one end and clip that to the upper
> lifeline when not in use. To engage the barberhauler, we simply clip it
> onto the clew cringle and adjust. We have to unclip the barberhauler before
> tacking, so the regular sheet needs to be tensioned before that, so some
> crew have complained about it's benefit because they have to remember to do
> that. I may try repositioning the pulley back a little and clipping onto
> the sheet instead.
>
> I sail mostly solo now, so hope to use them as twings for the spinnaker
> sheet/guys. Any advice would be appreciated.
>
> Chuck S Resolute 1990 C 34R
>
> On August 21, 2019 at 9:51 AM Jeff Helsdingen via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks Dennis, that answered some questions. We were trying to figure out
> who or why there were pieces of toe rail there. Partially confusing because
> a previous owner also added job track and a different previous owner had a
> deck job done but didn't remove them. $75, what a deal..
>
> Jeff
> Caposhi
> C 35 mk1 #54
>
> On Tue., Aug. 20, 2019, 7:45 p.m. Dennis C. via CnC-List, <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> First, if you are racing, having the whisker pole on the same side as the
>> boom may be prohibited in certain jurisdictions.
>>
>> Barber hauling is a complicated configuration.  Basically, you are
>> setting a triangle using two sheets to change location of the clew of the
>> genoa.  Generally, "barber haulers" can be set to move the clew inboard or
>> outboard or forward (downward).  Inhauls or inhaulers can be used to move
>> the clew inboard to decrease the sheeting angles.
>>
>> Rather than get too deep into all of that, on Touche' we simply use what
>> we call the "outboard sheet".  Touche' has an inboard genoa track with line
>> adjustable genoa cars, as we steer more off the wind and ease the genoa
>> sheet, we move the car forward to keep the leech from twisting off.  Our
>> trigger to rig the outboard sheet is when the genoa sheet is eased enough
>> that it begins to contact the upper lifeline.  At that point we attach a
>> snatch block to the toe rail slightly FORWARD of directly below where the
>> genoa sheet crosses the toe rail.
>>
>> The outboard sheet has a snap shackle which we clip into the clew ring or
>> the soft shackle on the clew of the genoa.  The tail is run to a secondary
>> winch.  We can control the inboard/outboard location of the clew by
>> proportionally tensioning the primary sheet and the outboard sheet.
>> However, more often than not, we simply trim exclusively on the outboard
>> sheet.
>>
>> Our old C's like to "breathe".  Opening the slot allows that.  Also,
>> moving the lead forward as the sheet is eased keeps the leech from twisting
>> off and dumping power.  Touche' loves reaching with the outboard sheet.  In
>> fact, in one distance race we lost 1st place by 20 seconds.  In retrospect,
>> I think it's because we didn't rig the outboard sheet or move the car
>> forward on a long reaching leg.
>>
>> One thing to keep in mind is that many of the older boats did not come
>> with an inboard track.  Touche' had short pieces of toe rail on the deck
>> forward of the primary winches.  It was listed as an option on the original
>> order as  "Inside fairleads rails" $75.  So, rigging an outboard sheet may
>> simply be returning to an original configuration.
>>
>> Dennis C.
>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>> Mandeville, LA
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 2:49 PM David Knecht via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I have been reading about Barber Haulers to help with reaching by
>>> getting the clew further outboard and keeping the leech from twisting off.
>>> I was thinking of a snatch block on the toe rail and a line snap shackled
>>> to the clew attachment point to accomplish this.  However, I have also seen
>>> people using their whisker pole on the leeward side to hold the genoa clew
>>> outboard and up.  Has anyone compared these options?  The pole seems more
>>> of a hassle, but should be more effective.  Dave
>>>
>>> S/V Aries
>>> 1990 C 34+
>>> New London, CT
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>>
>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>>> use PayPal to send contribution --https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>>
>>> 

Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

Hi Dennis,

Thanks for the clarification. We do have the aft genoa track similar to
yours, but not the forward track. But since our boat has two foresails in a
solent rig, the inner stay with the 95% jib is sheeted to the genoa track,
and the genoa on the outer stay is sheeted to the toerail with a fixed
block just forward of the winch. When sheeting the genoa in hard, the sheet
contacts the outside of the lifeline, which is one issue. I can resolve
this by running the genoa sheet on the track instead, but haven't tried it
yet. The lead angles to the winches from the genoa track are not great,
although I suppose I could still also run it through the rear block on the
rail. I guess the main issues with moving the genoa sheet position are that
the genoa track is already used by the jib sheets, and I need to decide if
the point of sail will require the sheets inboard or outboard of the
lifelines. There are numbers along the toerail, so at some point, the PO
used snatch blocks I suppose, but the current blocks use regular shackles
so are not easy to move. Maybe I'll post a photo so it's more clear...
Thanks
--
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
S/V Callisto, 1974 C 35
https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto


On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 5:36 AM Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Shawn,
>
> It sounds like you don't have a genoa track.  Look at this:
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_sb5TfIENvsb1FWampMNVpnSGM
>
> The short track by the shrouds is our jib track.  That's for our 95% jib.
>
> Further aft is a longer track which is our genoa track for our 125% and
> larger sails.  If you don't have a genoa track then you are only capable of
> rigging your sheet to the toe rail.  If so, then your configuration is what
> we call our outboard sheet.  Hence my comment of returning to an original
> configuration.
>
> Dennis C.
>
> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 8:46 PM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Dennis, thanks for the detailed info. I'm trying to understand picture it
>> all, but am unclear on which sheet goes through the snatch block on the
>> rail? I have genoa tracks on the side deck but they are used for the inner
>> 95% jib. The outer genoa uses blocks on the toerail, which I haven't tried
>> relocating, although I do have a few snatch blocks I could add forward to
>> try to approximate the effect you're describing (I think).
>> How do you attach the outboard sheet to the clew once on a reach? Do you
>> have to luff up to do this? With our current arrangement, I know that I am
>> losing a lot of power with the genoa, but am not always sure how to fix it,
>> especially single handed. I suspect the genoa blocks are too far back on
>> the toerail for anything except close reach to close hauled, and when
>> sheeted in tight, they pull the lifelines inward.
>>
>> --
>> Shawn Wright
>> shawngwri...@gmail.com
>> S/V Callisto, 1974 C 35
>> https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 4:45 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> First, if you are racing, having the whisker pole on the same side as
>>> the boom may be prohibited in certain jurisdictions.
>>>
>>> Barber hauling is a complicated configuration.  Basically, you are
>>> setting a triangle using two sheets to change location of the clew of the
>>> genoa.  Generally, "barber haulers" can be set to move the clew inboard or
>>> outboard or forward (downward).  Inhauls or inhaulers can be used to move
>>> the clew inboard to decrease the sheeting angles.
>>>
>>> Rather than get too deep into all of that, on Touche' we simply use what
>>> we call the "outboard sheet".  Touche' has an inboard genoa track with line
>>> adjustable genoa cars, as we steer more off the wind and ease the genoa
>>> sheet, we move the car forward to keep the leech from twisting off.  Our
>>> trigger to rig the outboard sheet is when the genoa sheet is eased enough
>>> that it begins to contact the upper lifeline.  At that point we attach a
>>> snatch block to the toe rail slightly FORWARD of directly below where the
>>> genoa sheet crosses the toe rail.
>>>
>>> The outboard sheet has a snap shackle which we clip into the clew ring
>>> or the soft shackle on the clew of the genoa.  The tail is run to a
>>> secondary winch.  We can control the inboard/outboard location of the clew
>>> by proportionally tensioning the primary sheet and the outboard sheet.
>>> However, more often than not, we simply trim exclusively on the outboard
>>> sheet.
>>>
>>> Our old C's like to "breathe".  Opening the slot allows that.  Also,
>>> moving the lead forward as the sheet is eased keeps the leech from twisting
>>> off and dumping power.  Touche' loves reaching with the outboard sheet.  In
>>> fact, in one distance race we lost 1st place by 20 seconds.  In retrospect,
>>> I think it's because we didn't rig the outboard sheet or move the car
>>> forward on a long reaching leg.
>>>
>>> One thing to keep in mind 

Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

I rig barberhaulers also. I attach a pulley on the toerail at the sweet spot, 
with a soft shackle and string up the top of the pulley to the lower lifeline 
so it doesn't flop around. I keep a short 5/16" diameter line for this purpose 
with a carabiner in one end and clip that to the upper lifeline when not in 
use. To engage the barberhauler, we simply clip it onto the clew cringle and 
adjust. We have to unclip the barberhauler before tacking, so the regular sheet 
needs to be tensioned before that, so some crew have complained about it's 
benefit because they have to remember to do that. I may try repositioning the 
pulley back a little and clipping onto the sheet instead.

I sail mostly solo now, so hope to use them as twings for the spinnaker 
sheet/guys. Any advice would be appreciated.

Chuck S Resolute 1990 C 34R


> On August 21, 2019 at 9:51 AM Jeff Helsdingen via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Dennis, that answered some questions. We were trying to figure out 
> who or why there were pieces of toe rail there. Partially confusing because a 
> previous owner also added job track and a different previous owner had a deck 
> job done but didn't remove them. $75, what a deal..
> 
> Jeff
> Caposhi
> C 35 mk1 #54
> 
> On Tue., Aug. 20, 2019, 7:45 p.m. Dennis C. via CnC-List, < 
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> 
> > > First, if you are racing, having the whisker pole on the 
> same side as the boom may be prohibited in certain jurisdictions.
> > 
> > Barber hauling is a complicated configuration.  Basically, you are 
> > setting a triangle using two sheets to change location of the clew of the 
> > genoa.  Generally, "barber haulers" can be set to move the clew inboard or 
> > outboard or forward (downward).  Inhauls or inhaulers can be used to move 
> > the clew inboard to decrease the sheeting angles.
> > 
> > Rather than get too deep into all of that, on Touche' we simply use 
> > what we call the "outboard sheet".  Touche' has an inboard genoa track with 
> > line adjustable genoa cars, as we steer more off the wind and ease the 
> > genoa sheet, we move the car forward to keep the leech from twisting off.  
> > Our trigger to rig the outboard sheet is when the genoa sheet is eased 
> > enough that it begins to contact the upper lifeline.  At that point we 
> > attach a snatch block to the toe rail slightly FORWARD of directly below 
> > where the genoa sheet crosses the toe rail.  
> > 
> > The outboard sheet has a snap shackle which we clip into the clew 
> > ring or the soft shackle on the clew of the genoa.  The tail is run to a 
> > secondary winch.  We can control the inboard/outboard location of the clew 
> > by proportionally tensioning the primary sheet and the outboard sheet.  
> > However, more often than not, we simply trim exclusively on the outboard 
> > sheet.
> > 
> > Our old C's like to "breathe".  Opening the slot allows that.  
> > Also, moving the lead forward as the sheet is eased keeps the leech from 
> > twisting off and dumping power.  Touche' loves reaching with the outboard 
> > sheet.  In fact, in one distance race we lost 1st place by 20 seconds.  In 
> > retrospect, I think it's because we didn't rig the outboard sheet or move 
> > the car forward on a long reaching leg.
> > 
> > One thing to keep in mind is that many of the older boats did not 
> > come with an inboard track.  Touche' had short pieces of toe rail on the 
> > deck forward of the primary winches.  It was listed as an option on the 
> > original order as  "Inside fairleads rails" $75.  So, rigging an outboard 
> > sheet may simply be returning to an original configuration.
> > 
> > Dennis C.
> > Touche' 35-1 #83
> > Mandeville, LA
> > 
> > On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 2:49 PM David Knecht via CnC-List < 
> > cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> > 
> > > > > I have been reading about Barber Haulers to 
> > help with reaching by getting the clew further outboard and keeping the 
> > leech from twisting off.  I was thinking of a snatch block on the toe rail 
> > and a line snap shackled to the clew attachment point to accomplish this.  
> > However, I have also seen people using their whisker pole on the leeward 
> > side to hold the genoa clew outboard and up.  Has anyone compared these 
> > options?  The pole seems more of a hassle, but should be more effective.  
> > Dave
> > > 
> > > S/V Aries
> > > 1990 C 34+
> > > New London, CT
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ___
> > > 
> > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your 
> > > contributions.  Each and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want 
> > > to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution --
> > > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> > > 
> > > 
> > 

Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[Jeff Helsdingen via CnC-List]

Thanks Dennis, that answered some questions. We were trying to figure out
who or why there were pieces of toe rail there. Partially confusing because
a previous owner also added job track and a different previous owner had a
deck job done but didn't remove them. $75, what a deal..

Jeff
Caposhi
C 35 mk1 #54

On Tue., Aug. 20, 2019, 7:45 p.m. Dennis C. via CnC-List, <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> First, if you are racing, having the whisker pole on the same side as the
> boom may be prohibited in certain jurisdictions.
>
> Barber hauling is a complicated configuration.  Basically, you are setting
> a triangle using two sheets to change location of the clew of the genoa.
> Generally, "barber haulers" can be set to move the clew inboard or outboard
> or forward (downward).  Inhauls or inhaulers can be used to move the clew
> inboard to decrease the sheeting angles.
>
> Rather than get too deep into all of that, on Touche' we simply use what
> we call the "outboard sheet".  Touche' has an inboard genoa track with line
> adjustable genoa cars, as we steer more off the wind and ease the genoa
> sheet, we move the car forward to keep the leech from twisting off.  Our
> trigger to rig the outboard sheet is when the genoa sheet is eased enough
> that it begins to contact the upper lifeline.  At that point we attach a
> snatch block to the toe rail slightly FORWARD of directly below where the
> genoa sheet crosses the toe rail.
>
> The outboard sheet has a snap shackle which we clip into the clew ring or
> the soft shackle on the clew of the genoa.  The tail is run to a secondary
> winch.  We can control the inboard/outboard location of the clew by
> proportionally tensioning the primary sheet and the outboard sheet.
> However, more often than not, we simply trim exclusively on the outboard
> sheet.
>
> Our old C's like to "breathe".  Opening the slot allows that.  Also,
> moving the lead forward as the sheet is eased keeps the leech from twisting
> off and dumping power.  Touche' loves reaching with the outboard sheet.  In
> fact, in one distance race we lost 1st place by 20 seconds.  In retrospect,
> I think it's because we didn't rig the outboard sheet or move the car
> forward on a long reaching leg.
>
> One thing to keep in mind is that many of the older boats did not come
> with an inboard track.  Touche' had short pieces of toe rail on the deck
> forward of the primary winches.  It was listed as an option on the original
> order as  "Inside fairleads rails" $75.  So, rigging an outboard sheet may
> simply be returning to an original configuration.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 2:49 PM David Knecht via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> I have been reading about Barber Haulers to help with reaching by getting
>> the clew further outboard and keeping the leech from twisting off.  I was
>> thinking of a snatch block on the toe rail and a line snap shackled to the
>> clew attachment point to accomplish this.  However, I have also seen people
>> using their whisker pole on the leeward side to hold the genoa clew
>> outboard and up.  Has anyone compared these options?  The pole seems more
>> of a hassle, but should be more effective.  Dave
>>
>> S/V Aries
>> 1990 C 34+
>> New London, CT
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Stus-List Reaching Sheet

[Barry Lenoble via CnC-List]

Hi Wade,

Some terminology so we are all discussing the same thing. 

I am not using a barber hauler. Typically a barber hauler (BH) is a separate
line attached to the sheet. The BH is used to position the clew of the sail.
Most of the time the BH will move the sheet in or out. Some can also
position the sheet up or down. 

I am using a separate sheet. On my boat and the boat I race on we refer to
that as the 'reaching sheet.' I clip a snatch block to the toe rail, run the
sheet through that and tie to the clew of the sail (I should probably put a
small shackle on the end to make the sail attachment quicker). The sheet is
led to a separate winch, tensioned, and then the regular sheet (which is
lead through the car on the genoa track) is eased. Depending on the point of
sail, the reaching sheet and regular sheet may both be tensioned.

To answer your question, the sheet is led outside of the lifelines.

In regarding to inboard and outboard tracks for the headsails, the boat I
race on, a 1988 C 35 mark 3, has two tracks. There is a short (maybe 1')
track set inside of the shrouds that is used for the #3 headsail. That's a
small sail and clew doesn't reach the shrouds. So for upwind work it's
trimmed in hard, inside of the shrouds. For the #1 and #2 headsail there is
another set of tracks. Set aft and further outside. There are line
adjustable cars that we set depending on the sail, wind speed, sea
conditions, etc.

And if we're reaching in conditions where we can't fly a spinnaker we will
use the 'reaching sheet'. It's kind of rare to do that, but when we do it
really pays off. On my boat (no spinnaker) I use the reaching sheet more
often, especially when cruising.

Barry

Barry Lenoble
leno...@optonline.net
Deep Blue C, C 110
Mt. Sinai, NY



From: Wade Glew 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List barber haulers and whisker poles
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Can I ask Barry, is the barber hauler sheet on the Genoa  Lew led to the
snap shackle from outside the lifelines or inside?
Wade
Oh Boy C 33 MKII



___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Shawn,

It sounds like you don't have a genoa track.  Look at this:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_sb5TfIENvsb1FWampMNVpnSGM

The short track by the shrouds is our jib track.  That's for our 95% jib.

Further aft is a longer track which is our genoa track for our 125% and
larger sails.  If you don't have a genoa track then you are only capable of
rigging your sheet to the toe rail.  If so, then your configuration is what
we call our outboard sheet.  Hence my comment of returning to an original
configuration.

Dennis C.

On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 8:46 PM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Dennis, thanks for the detailed info. I'm trying to understand picture it
> all, but am unclear on which sheet goes through the snatch block on the
> rail? I have genoa tracks on the side deck but they are used for the inner
> 95% jib. The outer genoa uses blocks on the toerail, which I haven't tried
> relocating, although I do have a few snatch blocks I could add forward to
> try to approximate the effect you're describing (I think).
> How do you attach the outboard sheet to the clew once on a reach? Do you
> have to luff up to do this? With our current arrangement, I know that I am
> losing a lot of power with the genoa, but am not always sure how to fix it,
> especially single handed. I suspect the genoa blocks are too far back on
> the toerail for anything except close reach to close hauled, and when
> sheeted in tight, they pull the lifelines inward.
>
> --
> Shawn Wright
> shawngwri...@gmail.com
> S/V Callisto, 1974 C 35
> https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 4:45 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> First, if you are racing, having the whisker pole on the same side as the
>> boom may be prohibited in certain jurisdictions.
>>
>> Barber hauling is a complicated configuration.  Basically, you are
>> setting a triangle using two sheets to change location of the clew of the
>> genoa.  Generally, "barber haulers" can be set to move the clew inboard or
>> outboard or forward (downward).  Inhauls or inhaulers can be used to move
>> the clew inboard to decrease the sheeting angles.
>>
>> Rather than get too deep into all of that, on Touche' we simply use what
>> we call the "outboard sheet".  Touche' has an inboard genoa track with line
>> adjustable genoa cars, as we steer more off the wind and ease the genoa
>> sheet, we move the car forward to keep the leech from twisting off.  Our
>> trigger to rig the outboard sheet is when the genoa sheet is eased enough
>> that it begins to contact the upper lifeline.  At that point we attach a
>> snatch block to the toe rail slightly FORWARD of directly below where the
>> genoa sheet crosses the toe rail.
>>
>> The outboard sheet has a snap shackle which we clip into the clew ring or
>> the soft shackle on the clew of the genoa.  The tail is run to a secondary
>> winch.  We can control the inboard/outboard location of the clew by
>> proportionally tensioning the primary sheet and the outboard sheet.
>> However, more often than not, we simply trim exclusively on the outboard
>> sheet.
>>
>> Our old C's like to "breathe".  Opening the slot allows that.  Also,
>> moving the lead forward as the sheet is eased keeps the leech from twisting
>> off and dumping power.  Touche' loves reaching with the outboard sheet.  In
>> fact, in one distance race we lost 1st place by 20 seconds.  In retrospect,
>> I think it's because we didn't rig the outboard sheet or move the car
>> forward on a long reaching leg.
>>
>> One thing to keep in mind is that many of the older boats did not come
>> with an inboard track.  Touche' had short pieces of toe rail on the deck
>> forward of the primary winches.  It was listed as an option on the original
>> order as  "Inside fairleads rails" $75.  So, rigging an outboard sheet may
>> simply be returning to an original configuration.
>>
>> Dennis C.
>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>> Mandeville, LA
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 2:49 PM David Knecht via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I have been reading about Barber Haulers to help with reaching by
>>> getting the clew further outboard and keeping the leech from twisting off.
>>> I was thinking of a snatch block on the toe rail and a line snap shackled
>>> to the clew attachment point to accomplish this.  However, I have also seen
>>> people using their whisker pole on the leeward side to hold the genoa clew
>>> outboard and up.  Has anyone compared these options?  The pole seems more
>>> of a hassle, but should be more effective.  Dave
>>>
>>> S/V Aries
>>> 1990 C 34+
>>> New London, CT
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>>
>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>>
>>>