Re: Stus-List Flooded Batteries

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

I left the foam batteries out of my discussion because I heard they are 
almost impossible to get now.


Joe

Coquina

On 9/24/2019 6:13 PM, Robert Boyer via CnC-List wrote:
I have had (4) Group 31 Firefly Oasis carbon-foam AGM batteries (in 
parallel) on board Rainy Days for nearly five years now and I love 
them.  They can cycle deeper than conventional batteries and have a 
greater cycle life.  In performance, they are between Lithium and 
conventional AGMs.  They are still rather heavy and expensive ($500 
each) but very reliable.


In addition, I do not have them broken into two banks like many people 
do.  I have 340 watts of good quality flexible solar panels and very 
good MPPT controllers.


We are year-round cruisers.   You may think that the maintenance is 
minimal on flooded cells but it would be added to all the other boat 
maintenance I have to do.


I don’t know why no one has mentioned these in the discussion of 
batteries.


Bob

There is no way that I would use flooded cells while this technology 
is available.  Also, batteries, in my opinion, are not a place to go 
cheap.


Bob Boyer
s/v Rainy Days
C Landfall 38 (Hull # 230)
(Presently in Baltimore for the summer)
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com 
email: dainyr...@icloud.com 

On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:47 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:



Paul,
in your calculations, you can assume 30% of usable capacity of a 
normal flooded battery (from 50% SoC to 80% SoC), which would shift 
the calculations a bit towards the Lithium batteries. The problem is 
that you would need a completely new charging system, which would 
throw the calculations in the opposite direction.
Another consideration is weight. The LiFe batteries would be 
(roughly) 1/4 of the flooded.
And yet another dimension – usability, or maintainability. The 
flooded batteries are very easy to maintain, most people know (or 
should) how to use them and even if we murder them occasionally (more 
often than we want to admit), they are cheap to replace. I think, 
this is the biggest advantage and the reason why LiFe are not gaining 
enough momentum. Maybe we need to give them a few years...

Marek
1994 C270 Legato
Ottawa, ON
*From:* Dreuge via CnC-List
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 24, 2019 10:03
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Cc:* Dreuge
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Flooded Batteries
While I have been looking into LiFe batteries, I still think Trojan 
T105 provide the best bang for the buck.  Cost have come down a 
little for lithium batteries, and with industry leaders like Trojan 
now selling these batteries(already at better $/AH), I’m expecting 
reasonable price drops in the coming years.
For example, a pair of T105 provides 115 usable AH (50% of 230AH @ 
12V) for total price of $280.    The Trojan Trillium TR 12.8 110 
provides 100 useable  AH (90% of 110AH @ 12V) for a price just over 
$1,000.   If I had to replace my house bank today, I would go with 4 
Trojan T105.  Worst case they would last 4-5yrs but likely longer. In 
5 years, one should not be surprised to see lithium prices drop by 
more than 25% (i.e. a cost saving of about $550 or the cost of the 4 
Trojans).
I know folks who highly recommend the Sam’s Club GC2 Duracell 
batteries.  While I’m a fan of the Trojan quality, at $90/battery or 
$360 for 215 usable AH (50% of 430 AH), the Sam’s Club option is 
worth looking at especially if one is considering going with LiFe 
batteries later rather than sooner.  To be fair, if I was full time 
cruising, I would weigh the sooner rather than the later.

just my two bits,
Paul
-
Paul E.
1981 C Landfall 38
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL
http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/


On Sep 23, 2019, at 8:16 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:

On 9/22/2019 10:28 PM, Peter Cowenhoven via CnC-List wrote:

Anyone still use flooded batteries. Looking to replace 3 weak batteries
that are causing engine startng issues.



Are the AGM or Gel batteries worth the $$ s.



Thanks in advance.



Peter Cowenhoven

Branford CT

Landfall 35

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Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

Both are modified square wave.

Joe

On 9/24/2019 9:26 PM, bwhitmore via CnC-List wrote:
Joe,  just out of curiosity, is the big inverter pure sine wave, or 
both or neither?




Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 Original message 
From: "Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List" 
Date: 9/24/19 7:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: "Della Barba, Joe" 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters

The big charger-inverters are complicated beasts. I sold and installed 
a lot of them back in the day.


I have a ProNautic 15 amp charger, a separate 300 watt inverter, and a 
separate 1200 watt inverter. Either one can drive the cabin outlets 
depending on a switch. The 300 watt unit is silent and draws very 
little in standby. It gets used most of the time, but if I need a big 
tool or the hairdryer we fire up the 1200 watt inverter. It has a fan 
you can hear, so we don’t use it when we don’t need to.


All 3 together are less than a big inverter/charger.

*/Joe Della Barba/*

Coquina

C 35 MK I

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*sv Rebecca Leah via CnC-List

*Sent:* Tuesday, September 24, 2019 7:14 PM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Cc:* sv Rebecca Leah 
*Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters

I have to agree with you Dennis. I have a 2.5k inverter/charger I 
would love to get rid of. It's big and I don't like the way it's wired 
into my boat. I had a fault while out cruising earlier this month, 
that rendered the whole unit us less. Except for ballast. Luckily I 
was able to reset the fault.


Doug Mountjoy

Sv Rebecca Leah

C LF39

Port Orchard YC wa.

 Original message 

From: "Dennis C. via CnC-List" >


Date: 9/24/19 12:40 (GMT-08:00)

To: CnClist mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>

Cc: "Dennis C." mailto:capt...@gmail.com>>

Subject: Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters

Chuck,

Just a philosophical comment on charger/inverters.  I personally don't 
like them.  Others may disagree.


If either side dies, you're screwed.  I prefer to install a separate 
charger and a separate inverter.


Dennis C.

Touche' 35-1 #83

Mandeville, LA

Any suggestions for charger/inverters would be appreciated.

Chuck Gilchrest


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Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters

[bwhitmore via CnC-List]

Joe,  just out of curiosity, is the big inverter pure sine wave, or both or 
neither?Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: "Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List" 
 Date: 9/24/19  7:51 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: "Della Barba, Joe"  Subject: 
Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters 

The big charger-inverters are complicated beasts. I sold and installed a lot of 
them back in the day.
I have a ProNautic 15 amp charger, a separate 300 watt inverter, and a separate 
1200 watt inverter. Either one can drive the cabin outlets depending on a 
switch.
 The 300 watt unit is silent and draws very little in standby. It gets used 
most of the time, but if I need a big tool or the hairdryer we fire up the 1200 
watt inverter. It has a fan you can hear, so we don’t use it when we don’t need 
to.
All 3 together are less than a big inverter/charger.


Joe Della Barba
Coquina
C 35 MK I


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
On Behalf Of sv Rebecca Leah via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 7:14 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: sv Rebecca Leah 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters


 

I have to agree with you Dennis. I have a 2.5k inverter/charger I would love to 
get rid of. It's big and I don't like the way it's wired into my boat. I had a 
fault while out cruising earlier
 this month, that rendered the whole unit us less. Except for ballast. Luckily 
I was able to reset the fault. 


 


 


 


Doug Mountjoy 

Sv Rebecca Leah 


C LF39


Port Orchard YC wa.



 



 Original message 


From: "Dennis C. via CnC-List" 



Date: 9/24/19 12:40 (GMT-08:00) 



To: CnClist 



Cc: "Dennis C." 



Subject: Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters



 




Chuck,


 


Just a philosophical comment on charger/inverters.  I personally don't like 
them.  Others may disagree.


 


If either side dies, you're screwed.  I prefer to install a separate charger 
and a separate inverter.


 


Dennis C.


Touche' 35-1 #83


Mandeville, LA

 


 




Any suggestions for charger/inverters would be appreciated.
Chuck Gilchrest
 






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Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

The big charger-inverters are complicated beasts. I sold and installed a lot of 
them back in the day.
I have a ProNautic 15 amp charger, a separate 300 watt inverter, and a separate 
1200 watt inverter. Either one can drive the cabin outlets depending on a 
switch. The 300 watt unit is silent and draws very little in standby. It gets 
used most of the time, but if I need a big tool or the hairdryer we fire up the 
1200 watt inverter. It has a fan you can hear, so we don’t use it when we don’t 
need to.
All 3 together are less than a big inverter/charger.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina
C 35 MK I
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of sv Rebecca 
Leah via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 7:14 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: sv Rebecca Leah 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters

I have to agree with you Dennis. I have a 2.5k inverter/charger I would love to 
get rid of. It's big and I don't like the way it's wired into my boat. I had a 
fault while out cruising earlier this month, that rendered the whole unit us 
less. Except for ballast. Luckily I was able to reset the fault.



Doug Mountjoy
Sv Rebecca Leah
C LF39
Port Orchard YC wa.

 Original message 
From: "Dennis C. via CnC-List" 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Date: 9/24/19 12:40 (GMT-08:00)
To: CnClist mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: "Dennis C." mailto:capt...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters

Chuck,

Just a philosophical comment on charger/inverters.  I personally don't like 
them.  Others may disagree.

If either side dies, you're screwed.  I prefer to install a separate charger 
and a separate inverter.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA


Any suggestions for charger/inverters would be appreciated.
Chuck Gilchrest

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Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters

[sv Rebecca Leah via CnC-List]

I have to agree with you Dennis. I have a 2.5k inverter/charger I would love to 
get rid of. It's big and I don't like the way it's wired into my boat. I had a 
fault while out cruising earlier this month, that rendered the whole unit us 
less. Except for ballast. Luckily I was able to reset the fault. Doug Mountjoy 
Sv Rebecca Leah C LF39Port Orchard YC wa.
 Original message From: "Dennis C. via CnC-List" 
 Date: 9/24/19  12:40  (GMT-08:00) To: CnClist 
 Cc: "Dennis C."  Subject: Re: 
Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters Chuck,Just a philosophical 
comment on charger/inverters.  I personally don't like them.  Others may 
disagree.If either side dies, you're screwed.  I prefer to install a separate 
charger and a separate inverter.Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, LAAny 
suggestions for charger/inverters would be appreciated.Chuck Gilchrest

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Re: Stus-List Flooded Batteries

[Robert Boyer via CnC-List]

I have had (4) Group 31 Firefly Oasis carbon-foam AGM batteries (in parallel) 
on board Rainy Days for nearly five years now and I love them.  They can cycle 
deeper than conventional batteries and have a greater cycle life.  In 
performance, they are between Lithium and conventional AGMs.  They are still 
rather heavy and expensive ($500 each) but very reliable.

In addition, I do not have them broken into two banks like many people do.  I 
have 340 watts of good quality flexible solar panels and very good MPPT 
controllers.

We are year-round cruisers.   You may think that the maintenance is minimal on 
flooded cells but it would be added to all the other boat maintenance I have to 
do.

I don’t know why no one has mentioned these in the discussion of batteries.

Bob

There is no way that I would use flooded cells while this technology is 
available.  Also, batteries, in my opinion, are not a place to go cheap.

Bob Boyer
s/v Rainy Days
C Landfall 38 (Hull # 230)
(Presently in Baltimore for the summer)
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
email: dainyr...@icloud.com

> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:47 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Paul,
>  
> in your calculations, you can assume 30% of usable capacity of a normal 
> flooded battery (from 50% SoC to 80% SoC), which would shift the calculations 
> a bit towards the Lithium batteries. The problem is that you would need a 
> completely new charging system, which would throw the calculations in the 
> opposite direction.
>  
> Another consideration is weight. The LiFe batteries would be (roughly) 1/4 of 
> the flooded.
>  
> And yet another dimension – usability, or maintainability. The flooded 
> batteries are very easy to maintain, most people know (or should) how to use 
> them and even if we murder them occasionally (more often than we want to 
> admit), they are cheap to replace. I think, this is the biggest advantage and 
> the reason why LiFe are not gaining enough momentum. Maybe we need to give 
> them a few years...
>  
> Marek
> 1994 C270 Legato
> Ottawa, ON
>  
> From: Dreuge via CnC-List
> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 10:03
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Dreuge
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Flooded Batteries
>  
> While I have been looking into LiFe batteries, I still think Trojan T105 
> provide the best bang for the buck.  Cost have come down a little for lithium 
> batteries, and with industry leaders like Trojan now selling these 
> batteries(already at better $/AH), I’m expecting reasonable price drops in 
> the coming years.
>  
> For example, a pair of T105 provides 115 usable AH (50% of 230AH @ 12V) for 
> total price of $280.The Trojan Trillium TR 12.8 110 provides 100 useable  
> AH (90% of 110AH @ 12V) for a price just over $1,000.   If I had to replace 
> my house bank today, I would go with 4 Trojan T105.  Worst case they would 
> last 4-5yrs but likely longer.   In 5 years, one should not be surprised to 
> see lithium prices drop by more than 25% (i.e. a cost saving of about $550 or 
> the cost of the 4 Trojans).
>  
> I know folks who highly recommend the Sam’s Club GC2 Duracell batteries.  
> While I’m a fan of the Trojan quality, at $90/battery or $360 for 215 usable 
> AH (50% of 430 AH), the Sam’s Club option is worth looking at especially if 
> one is considering going with LiFe batteries later rather than sooner.  To be 
> fair, if I was full time cruising, I would weigh the sooner rather than the 
> later.
>  
> just my two bits,
> Paul
> -
> Paul E.
> 1981 C Landfall 38 
> S/V Johanna Rose
> Fort Walton Beach, FL
>  
> http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/
> 
>> On Sep 23, 2019, at 8:16 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
>>  
>>> On 9/22/2019 10:28 PM, Peter Cowenhoven via CnC-List wrote:
>>> 
>>> Anyone still use flooded batteries.  Looking to replace 3 weak batteries
>>> that are causing engine startng issues.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Are the AGM or Gel batteries worth the $$ s.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Peter Cowenhoven
>>> 
>>> Branford CT
>>> 
>>> Landfall 35
> 
>  
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
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Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all, 

For years on our C 27 MKIII we used a 40 watt or so solar panel with a charge 
controller, and the panel mounted on our sliding hatch to charge our batteries 
(a series 24 and 27) on the mooring.  We used a battery combiner to keep the 
starting and house battery charged.  

We also had a small inverter that would have been sufficient to power a 
coffeemaker, but we used it for a flat panel TV.  Overall, it worked well, and 
we never had concerns about our batteries being charged.  The new owner has 
kept the batteries in the boat over the winter, getting topped off by the solar 
panel.  

It has been an inexpensive, elegant solution that worked well for us.  

Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+ "Astralis"
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
 

  
 ___

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Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

Thanks Dennis.
I also wonder if a dedicated inverter may absorb less battery power in the 
conversion process than a multi-function inverter/charger.  I guess ultimately 
it’s a matter of getting the right one to suit one’s needs.  I rarely have 
access to shore power except when the boat is on the hard but would enjoy using 
that juice to top off the battery banks when my solar panels come down and the 
shrink wrap goes on.
Chuck Gilchrest 
S/V Half Magic 
1983 35 Landfall 
Padanaram MA

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 24, 2019, at 3:40 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Chuck,
> 
> Just a philosophical comment on charger/inverters.  I personally don't like 
> them.  Others may disagree.
> 
> If either side dies, you're screwed.  I prefer to install a separate charger 
> and a separate inverter.
> 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> 
> 
>> Any suggestions for charger/inverters would be appreciated.
>> 
>> Chuck Gilchrest
>> 
>> 
>> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
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Re: Stus-List Solar panels - now charger/inverters

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Chuck,

Just a philosophical comment on charger/inverters.  I personally don't like
them.  Others may disagree.

If either side dies, you're screwed.  I prefer to install a separate
charger and a separate inverter.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA


Any suggestions for charger/inverters would be appreciated.
>
> Chuck Gilchrest
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

I have a similar set up with 2 semi-flexible 100w panels installed on my
bimini.  We were able to stitch Velcro around the perimeter of the panels
with the nap side facing up.  Then we stitched "fold over" tabs with the
hook Velcro facing down on the bimini so one could lay the panels directly
atop the bimini and secure the panels with the coordinating Velcro tabs.
The tabs run the entire length of the panels, both fore and aft and
athwartships providing a secure installation that resists wind from getting
underneath the panels.  This installation allows me to remove both panels
and canvas in the event of storms or bad weather.  I only have the panels
hooked up to the house bank of batteries (2 wet cell group 31) and rely on
the alternator to keep the starting battery (group 27) charged, although I
can combine battery banks to start the diesel if the starter battery gets
low.  Our boat lives on a mooring.

Contemplating buying a combination battery charger/inverter this winter to
replace the Promariner Protech 1240 charger that died last summer.
Promariner no longer has replacement parts for the existing charger although
I suspect a knowledgeable electronics guy could likely find a bad diode or
capacitor and make an easy repair. maybe.   My wife enjoys using her Keurig
onboard and the toaster/oven is about a 1200w draw.  I would love to not
need to haul around the portable 2000w Honda Generator which I'm sure makes
no friends in the morning in a quiet harbor..

Any suggestions for charger/inverters would be appreciated.

Chuck Gilchrest

S/V Half Magic

1983 35 Landfall

Padanaram, MA

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Andrew Walther
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 12:46 PM
To: Len Mitchell ; CNC List 
Cc: Andrew Walther 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Solar panels

 

Thanks Len - I've seen up to about 180 watts but only really clear day when
sun was directly overhead.  It's surprising though with cloud cover I have
also seen 70-80 watts.  We don't have hug loads the fridge being the main
one.  We were away for a month this year and had several 2-3 day anchorages
where we never had to run the engine - very pleased with the whole thing.

 

If anybody is interested this is what we installed...

 

2 x 100 Watt Panels
 

 

MPPT Controller
 

 

Reasonably easy install also.

 

Andy

 

 

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Re: Stus-List Flooded Batteries

[Dreuge via CnC-List]

Another issue regarding flooded batteries is the orientation.  

While not important in most applications, on a sailing boat flooded batteries 
should be mounted along the beam (port to starboard) rather than oriented along 
the centerline.  


Mainsail at pbase.com  has a nice discussion of this issue:  
https://pbase.com/mainecruising/flooded_battery_orientation


-
Paul E.
1981 C Landfall 38 
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:27 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 16:27:12 +
> From: "Della Barba, Joe"  >
> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com " 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
> Subject: Stus-List Flooded Batteries
> Message-ID:
>   
>   
> >
>   
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> From what I read the life cycle cost of golf cart batteries is lower when you 
> use them hard and discharge past 50%. Sure it reduces the life of them, but 
> you get a lot more AH per $ in the end. The golf cart drivers surely could 
> not care less about stopping at 50%!
> Joe
> Coquina
> Ps ? remember wet cells need equalizing every now and then. Gels do NOT and 
> AGMs sort of do.
> 

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Re: Stus-List Flooded Batteries

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Paul,

in your calculations, you can assume 30% of usable capacity of a normal flooded 
battery (from 50% SoC to 80% SoC), which would shift the calculations a bit 
towards the Lithium batteries. The problem is that you would need a completely 
new charging system, which would throw the calculations in the opposite 
direction.

Another consideration is weight. The LiFe batteries would be (roughly) 1/4 of 
the flooded.

And yet another dimension – usability, or maintainability. The flooded 
batteries are very easy to maintain, most people know (or should) how to use 
them and even if we murder them occasionally (more often than we want to 
admit), they are cheap to replace. I think, this is the biggest advantage and 
the reason why LiFe are not gaining enough momentum. Maybe we need to give them 
a few years...

Marek
1994 C270 Legato
Ottawa, ON

From: Dreuge via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 10:03
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Dreuge
Subject: Re: Stus-List Flooded Batteries

While I have been looking into LiFe batteries, I still think Trojan T105 
provide the best bang for the buck.  Cost have come down a little for lithium 
batteries, and with industry leaders like Trojan now selling these 
batteries(already at better $/AH), I’m expecting reasonable price drops in the 
coming years.

For example, a pair of T105 provides 115 usable AH (50% of 230AH @ 12V) for 
total price of $280.The Trojan Trillium TR 12.8 110 provides 100 useable  
AH (90% of 110AH @ 12V) for a price just over $1,000.   If I had to replace my 
house bank today, I would go with 4 Trojan T105.  Worst case they would last 
4-5yrs but likely longer.   In 5 years, one should not be surprised to see 
lithium prices drop by more than 25% (i.e. a cost saving of about $550 or the 
cost of the 4 Trojans).

I know folks who highly recommend the Sam’s Club GC2 Duracell batteries.  While 
I’m a fan of the Trojan quality, at $90/battery or $360 for 215 usable AH (50% 
of 430 AH), the Sam’s Club option is worth looking at especially if one is 
considering going with LiFe batteries later rather than sooner.  To be fair, if 
I was full time cruising, I would weigh the sooner rather than the later.

just my two bits,
Paul
-
Paul E.
1981 C Landfall 38
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

On Sep 23, 2019, at 8:16 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:

On 9/22/2019 10:28 PM, Peter Cowenhoven via CnC-List wrote:

Anyone still use flooded batteries.  Looking to replace 3 weak batteries
that are causing engine startng issues.



Are the AGM or Gel batteries worth the $$ s.



Thanks in advance.



Peter Cowenhoven

Branford CT

Landfall 35

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Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Andrew Walther via CnC-List]

Thanks Len - I've seen up to about 180 watts but only really clear day when sun 
was directly overhead.  It's surprising though with cloud cover I have also 
seen 70-80 watts.  We don't have hug loads the fridge being the main one.  We 
were away for a month this year and had several 2-3 day anchorages where we 
never had to run the engine - very pleased with the whole thing.



If anybody is interested this is what we installed...



2 x 100 Watt 
Panels



MPPT 
Controller



Reasonably easy install also.



Andy







-Original Message-
From: Len Mitchell 
Sent: September 23, 2019 8:09 PM
To: CNC List 
Subject: Stus-List Solar panels



Nice install Andy! That looks really well done. Curious how many amps you are 
getting in full sun. Len





Sent from my iPad


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to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Stus-List Flooded Batteries

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

From what I read the life cycle cost of golf cart batteries is lower when you 
use them hard and discharge past 50%. Sure it reduces the life of them, but you 
get a lot more AH per $ in the end. The golf cart drivers surely could not care 
less about stopping at 50%!
Joe
Coquina
Ps – remember wet cells need equalizing every now and then. Gels do NOT and 
AGMs sort of do.


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dreuge via 
CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 10:02 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Dreuge 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List Flooded Batteries

While I have been looking into LiFe batteries, I still think Trojan T105 
provide the best bang for the buck.  Cost have come down a little for lithium 
batteries, and with industry leaders like Trojan now selling these 
batteries(already at better $/AH), I’m expecting reasonable price drops in the 
coming years.

For example, a pair of T105 provides 115 usable AH (50% of 230AH @ 12V) for 
total price of $280.The Trojan Trillium TR 12.8 110 provides 100 useable  
AH (90% of 110AH @ 12V) for a price just over $1,000.   If I had to replace my 
house bank today, I would go with 4 Trojan T105.  Worst case they would last 
4-5yrs but likely longer.   In 5 years, one should not be surprised to see 
lithium prices drop by more than 25% (i.e. a cost saving of about $550 or the 
cost of the 4 Trojans).

I know folks who highly recommend the Sam’s Club GC2 Duracell batteries.  While 
I’m a fan of the Trojan quality, at $90/battery or $360 for 215 usable AH (50% 
of 430 AH), the Sam’s Club option is worth looking at especially if one is 
considering going with LiFe batteries later rather than sooner.  To be fair, if 
I was full time cruising, I would weigh the sooner rather than the later.

just my two bits,
Paul
-
Paul E.
1981 C Landfall 38
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/


On Sep 23, 2019, at 8:16 PM, 
cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:

On 9/22/2019 10:28 PM, Peter Cowenhoven via CnC-List wrote:

Anyone still use flooded batteries.  Looking to replace 3 weak batteries
that are causing engine startng issues.



Are the AGM or Gel batteries worth the $$ s.



Thanks in advance.



Peter Cowenhoven

Branford CT

Landfall 35

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Re: Stus-List Flooded Batteries

[Charlie Nelson via CnC-List]

Yes--those of you old enough to remember the original ~ 19" or so 'portable'  
TVs will remember they also had carrying handles--I guess they were supposed to 
make the 5-100 lb tube type TV 'portable"! Charlie NelsonWater PhantomC 36 
XL/kcb  -Original Message-
From: Robert Abbott via CnC-List 
To: nausetbeach ; cnc-list 
Cc: Robert Abbott 
Sent: Tue, Sep 24, 2019 9:04 am
Subject: Stus-List Flooded Batteries

 Brian:
 
 In the Fall, the first thing I do is check the fluid level(s) in each cell 
making sure the lead plates are covered in water (always use distilled water).  
Then they get a full charge until my battery charger reverts to maintain mode.  
I always follow up by checking the specific gravity of each cell which should 
be around 1.27 (I think from memory).  If the specific gravity is not good, 
they will not hold their charge.  If all checks out, then I completely 
disconnect the batteries from everything so there is nothing to draw a current.
 
 I have left them the whole winter without a top up charge.   This past Spring, 
 one was 12.4V, the other 12.5V.    Some winters I have gone aboard and given 
them an occasional top up charge but if the specific gravity is good and they 
are fully charged before layup, it is not necessary.  They will be fine.
 
 Even though the batteries have carrying straps, there is no way I am taking 
them off.on the boat when it is totally unnecessary.
 
 Rob Abbott
 AZURA
 C #277
 Halifax, N.S.
 
 
 
  
 
 On 9/23/2019 10:56 AM, nausetbe...@optonline.net wrote:
  
 
#yiv3507517136 #yiv3507517136 -- _filtered #yiv3507517136 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 
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{margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} #yiv3507517136 div.yiv3507517136WordSection1 
{} #yiv3507517136  Rob,    What is your winter procedure to get such long life? 
 I have been removing my 3 flooded batteries and storing them in my garage, 
giving them a monthly charge “top up.”  Would much rather not carry them down 
and then back up the ladder comes spring.  My boat is 1 hour away in the winter 
so do not get there that often to give them a regular charge.      Do you 
charge them on regular visits to the boat?  Do you disconnect them and let them 
sit, with very slow self discharge during the colder months?      Thanks, Brian 
  
   
 ___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List Boom Bail for 30-2

[Charlie Nelson via CnC-List]

My webbing 'strop'(?) is about 1" wide with loops in each end so I just put one 
loop thru the other and hook the mainsheet block shackle to the 'free' loop. 
The entire length of the strop is only a little more than the circumference of 
the boom. With the pressure on the strap and its width of 1" and with the strap 
in contact with the top and sides of the boom, it will never move. Even when in 
the slip, with any tension on the main sheet to keep the boom steady, it will 
not move. Charlie NelsonC 36 XL/kcb-Original Message-
From: Jim Reinardy via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: firewater 
Sent: Mon, Sep 23, 2019 10:22 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Boom Bail for 30-2

#yiv6102025310 #yiv6102025310 -- _filtered #yiv6102025310 
{font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv6102025310 
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{} #yiv6102025310 Charlie,  That is an interesting thought!  How do you keep 
yours from slipping down the boom?  How wide would you say the webbing is?  
Thanks,  Jim  From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of 
Charlie Nelson via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2019 9:12 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Boom Bail for 30-2  Why not consider a strong webbing 
type strap with sewn loops on each end?--can be very strong, cheap and 
indestructible. I have been using the same one on Water Phantom for 20+ years.  
 Charlie NelsonC 36 XL/kcb

-Original Message-
From: Jim Reinardy via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: firewater 
Sent: Mon, Sep 23, 2019 9:30 pm
Subject: Stus-List Boom Bail for 30-2Hi all, We were headed out for the last 
race of the season Saturday and as we loaded up the main for the first time, 
the fitting on the boom that  attaches to the main sheet snapped off our 30-2.  
This was a single eye attached to a plate riveted to the inside of the boom.  I 
suspect this probably just weakened over time and happened to give out at the 
weld.   It was quite windy, but at that point the stresses on the mainsheet 
weren’t out of the ordinary since we were just motoring out of the harbor.  No 
other damage to the boat and no harm to the crew as a result of this, so it 
could have been much worse. Now the issue is how to find a replacement.  Anyone 
have an idea if these are available off the shelf or have another idea for 
replacement?  RigRite does not recognize it.  I have also contacted 

Re: Stus-List Flooded Batteries

[nausetbeach--- via CnC-List]

Marek and Ken,

 

Thanks for the information.  The winters get cold enough so will give it a try 
this year.  Will disconnect them and leave them in place.  

 

Thanks,

Brian

 

From: Ken Heaton  
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2019 11:12 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: nausetbe...@optonline.net
Subject: Re: Stus-List Flooded Batteries

 

I'm not sure where you are located. How cold are your winters

The colder the winter the less often you need to recharge the batteries over 
winter (this is assuming you do no ever use the batteries when they are cold). 
This also assumes you start the storage period with the batteries fully 
charged.  If you have cold winters, or even coolish winters there is no good 
reason to take the batteries out of the boat.

Self discharge slows as the temperature drops.

Does that help?

Ken H.

On Monday, 23 September 2019, nausetbeach--- via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:
> Rob,
>
>  
>
> What is your winter procedure to get such long life?  I have been removing my 
> 3 flooded batteries and storing them in my garage, giving them a monthly 
> charge “top up.”  Would much rather not carry them down and then back up the 
> ladder comes spring.  My boat is 1 hour away in the winter so do not get 
> there that often to give them a regular charge. 
>
>  
>
> Do you charge them on regular visits to the boat?  Do you disconnect them and 
> let them sit, with very slow self discharge during the colder months? 
>
>  
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brian
>
>  
>
> From: CnC-List   > On Behalf Of Robert Abbott via 
> CnC-List
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2019 8:47 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  
> Cc: Robert Abbott mailto:robertabb...@eastlink.ca> 
> >
> Subject: Stus-List Flooded Batteries
>
>  
>
> I have two Group 27's Great Northern deep cycle batteries that have just seen 
> their 11th season of use.leave them on the boat over the winter.
>
> Time to get new ones but they just keep on going.
>
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C 32, #277
> Halifax, N.S.
>
> On 9/22/2019 10:28 PM, Peter Cowenhoven via CnC-List wrote:
>
> Anyone still use flooded batteries.  Looking to replace 3 weak batteries that 
> are causing engine startng issues.
>
>  
>
> Are the AGM or Gel batteries worth the $$ s.
>
>  
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>  
>
> Peter Cowenhoven
>
> Branford CT
>
> Landfall 35
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>
> ___
>
>  
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>  
>
>   

___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Flooded Batteries

[Dreuge via CnC-List]

While I have been looking into LiFe batteries, I still think Trojan T105 
provide the best bang for the buck.  Cost have come down a little for lithium 
batteries, and with industry leaders like Trojan now selling these 
batteries(already at better $/AH), I’m expecting reasonable price drops in the 
coming years.

For example, a pair of T105 provides 115 usable AH (50% of 230AH @ 12V) for 
total price of $280.The Trojan Trillium TR 12.8 110 provides 100 useable  
AH (90% of 110AH @ 12V) for a price just over $1,000.   If I had to replace my 
house bank today, I would go with 4 Trojan T105.  Worst case they would last 
4-5yrs but likely longer.   In 5 years, one should not be surprised to see 
lithium prices drop by more than 25% (i.e. a cost saving of about $550 or the 
cost of the 4 Trojans).

I know folks who highly recommend the Sam’s Club GC2 Duracell batteries.  While 
I’m a fan of the Trojan quality, at $90/battery or $360 for 215 usable AH (50% 
of 430 AH), the Sam’s Club option is worth looking at especially if one is 
considering going with LiFe batteries later rather than sooner.  To be fair, if 
I was full time cruising, I would weigh the sooner rather than the later.

just my two bits,
Paul
-
Paul E.
1981 C Landfall 38 
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

> On Sep 23, 2019, at 8:16 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
>> On 9/22/2019 10:28 PM, Peter Cowenhoven via CnC-List wrote:
>> 
>> Anyone still use flooded batteries.  Looking to replace 3 weak batteries
>> that are causing engine startng issues.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Are the AGM or Gel batteries worth the $$ s.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks in advance.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Peter Cowenhoven
>> 
>> Branford CT
>> 
>> Landfall 35

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Stus-List Flooded Batteries

[Robert Abbott via CnC-List]

Brian:

In the Fall, the first thing I do is check the fluid level(s) in each 
cell making sure the lead plates are covered in water (always use 
distilled water).  Then they get a full charge until my battery charger 
reverts to maintain mode.  I always follow up by checking the specific 
gravity of each cell which should be around 1.27 (I think from memory).  
If the specific gravity is not good, they will not hold their charge.  
If all checks out, then I completely disconnect the batteries from 
everything so there is nothing to draw a current.


I have left them the whole winter without a top up charge.   This past 
Spring,  one was 12.4V, the other 12.5V.    Some winters I have gone 
aboard and given them an occasional top up charge but if the specific 
gravity is good and they are fully charged before layup, it is not 
necessary.  They will be fine.


Even though the batteries have carrying straps, there is no way I am 
taking them off.on the boat when it is totally unnecessary.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C #277
Halifax, N.S.





On 9/23/2019 10:56 AM, nausetbe...@optonline.net wrote:


Rob,

What is your winter procedure to get such long life?  I have been 
removing my 3 flooded batteries and storing them in my garage, giving 
them a monthly charge “top up.”  Would much rather not carry them down 
and then back up the ladder comes spring.  My boat is 1 hour away in 
the winter so do not get there that often to give them a regular charge.


Do you charge them on regular visits to the boat?  Do you disconnect 
them and let them sit, with very slow self discharge during the colder 
months?


Thanks,

Brian




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Re: Stus-List Boom Bail for 30-2

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

Try South Shore in Niagara on the Lake.

From: Jim Reinardy via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2019 9:29 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: firewa...@reinardy.us 
Subject: Stus-List Boom Bail for 30-2

Hi all,

 

We were headed out for the last race of the season Saturday and as we loaded up 
the main for the first time, the fitting on the boom that  attaches to the main 
sheet snapped off our 30-2.  This was a single eye attached to a plate riveted 
to the inside of the boom.  I suspect this probably just weakened over time and 
happened to give out at the weld.   It was quite windy, but at that point the 
stresses on the mainsheet weren’t out of the ordinary since we were just 
motoring out of the harbor.  No other damage to the boat and no harm to the 
crew as a result of this, so it could have been much worse.

 

Now the issue is how to find a replacement.  Anyone have an idea if these are 
available off the shelf or have another idea for replacement?  RigRite does not 
recognize it.  I have also contacted Offshore Spars, who I believe made the rig 
originally and helped me out with a boom vang bracket last year. RigRite has 
one that is similar size but with a different hole pattern that I probably 
could make work, but still hoping for a true replacement if I can get one.  
Thanks for your help!

 

Jim Reinardy

C 30-2 “Firewater”

Milwaukee, WI 

 




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Re: Stus-List The Low drag Prop saga is over!

[Wade Glew via CnC-List]

Mine is a 2 blade Bruce
Wade

On Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 21:39 bwhitmore via CnC-List, 
wrote:

> In each of the cases noted about Flex o Fold, are we talking about the 3
> blade or two blade models?  The recommend a 3 blade for my 37/40 with a
> Yanmar 3JH2E.
>
> Looking forward to your thoughts,
>
> Bruce Whitmore
>
>
>
> Sent from Samsung tablet.
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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