Re: Stus-List Navtec backstay psi - now headsail & mainsail shape
Nobody gonna challenge you on this DC just tell us what to do ok On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 12:46 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:50 AM Paul via CnC-List > wrote: > >> Brings a good question. How do I know my headstay is set properly? I've >> always wondered and never known an answer. How do I know that my main >> sail >> is optimum shape as a result? >> >> Paul Hood >> C '81 > > > VERY complicated question and definitely a new thread. No simple answer. > Answer depends on your rig, the cut and age of your sails and lots of > factors. > > Over the years, I've added pre-bend to Touche's rig by tensioning the > forward lower shrouds (not possible with inline shrouds), added 5 inches to > the headstay, adjusted the turnbuckle on the roller furler, etc. in an > effort to optimize headsail and mainsail shaping. The reconfigurations > came from years of sailing, racing, reading and discussions with sailmakers > and fellow racers. > > Having said that, there are general suggestions that may apply. If you > haven't read North U's book Racing Trim by Bill Gladstone, it's a good > start. It covers rig tuning, sail shape and lots of topics pertinent to > your question. > > I'll let others chime in for a while and see what's said. > > Dennis C. > Touche' 35-1 #83 > Mandeville, LA > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > -- Sent from Gmail Mobile ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Navtec Rebuild or?
Lew Townsend in Seattle does all my hydraulic repairs. (206} 498-7282. Not only did he do the repairs, he stayed in touch with me to make sure everything was working ok. Alan Bergen 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Navtec Rebuild or?
New seal kits can be found online. Just make sure you get the correct one. They're a bit pricey so shop around. eBay has a couple. If you disassemble it and find it's just the top seal, take the old seal and the unit to a reputable hydraulic shop. They can probably match it or fix it. It's just a hydraulic ram. Any shop that fixes rams for dozers, Bobcats, etc. might be able to handle it. If you want the absolute bombproof reliable fix, send it to Lew Townsend in Seattle (206.498.7282). He is the accepted expert on repairing them. Cost you about $350-400 but it will be done right. Lew was going on a 3 week cruise when I needed mine repaired. I sent it to a "Navtec" repair shop in Texas. They installed a new seal kit but it loosens ever so slowly over time. Wish I'd waited on Lew. Finally, when you reinstall it, get a black rubber washer from a big box building supply store and slide it down the shaft so it sits on top of the cylinder. It will protect the top seal from UV which is the most common failure mode for these things. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 1:38 PM Luke Wolbrink via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Everyone talking about backstay tension reminded me of a project I was > looking to do this winter; rebuild the backstay tensioner. It's the > original navtec one with the handle and guage built-in. There's always a > bit of oil on the ram when it's extended so I'm guessing just needs a new > seal. > > 1) Is there a recommended place to get these serviced since Navtec is out > of business? I'm in Chicago so hopefully something in the midwest. > > 2) I'm relatively handy, is it something that can be DIY? If so any idea > where to get parts? I could care less about the guage (like others I have a > marked batten) > > 3) If I wanted to to the replace route any recommendations on > manufacturers (there are several) and sizes? > > thanks in advance, > Luke > 1985, 35-3 Zella > > > > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Stus-List Navtec Rebuild or?
Everyone talking about backstay tension reminded me of a project I was looking to do this winter; rebuild the backstay tensioner. It's the original navtec one with the handle and guage built-in. There's always a bit of oil on the ram when it's extended so I'm guessing just needs a new seal. 1) Is there a recommended place to get these serviced since Navtec is out of business? I'm in Chicago so hopefully something in the midwest. 2) I'm relatively handy, is it something that can be DIY? If so any idea where to get parts? I could care less about the guage (like others I have a marked batten) 3) If I wanted to to the replace route any recommendations on manufacturers (there are several) and sizes? thanks in advance, Luke 1985, 35-3 Zella On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 7:33 AM wrote: > Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to > cnc-list@cnc-list.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..." > Today's Topics: > >1. C 44 Navtec backstay psi (Patrick Gateley) >2. Re: C 44 Navtec backstay psi (Josh Muckley) >3. Re: C 44 Navtec backstay psi (David Risch) >4. Re: C 44 Navtec backstay psi (Matthew L. Wolford) >5. Re: C 44 Navtec backstay psi (Dennis C.) >6. Re: C 44 Navtec backstay psi (CHARLES SCHEAFFER) >7. Re: C 44 Navtec backstay psi (Michael Brannon) > > > > -- Forwarded message -- > From: Patrick Gateley > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2019 11:50:27 -0800 > Subject: Stus-List C 44 Navtec backstay psi > Hi all, > > We just had our backstay adjuster rebuilt and am wondering what PSI we > should keep it at while moored? > > Thanks > > Kari and Patrick Gateley > 1988 C 44' "Odessa" > > > > -- Forwarded message -- > From: Josh Muckley > To: "C List" > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 15:00:45 -0500 > Subject: Re: Stus-List C 44 Navtec backstay psi > It's almost irrelevant. I keep mine just more than slack so that if > someone uses it to support themselves it won't give too much. > > ~500psi-ish > > Josh Muckley > S/V Sea Hawk > 1989 C 37+ > Solomons, MD > > On Mon, Dec 2, 2019, 2:51 PM Patrick Gateley via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> We just had our backstay adjuster rebuilt and am wondering what PSI we >> should keep it at while moored? >> >> Thanks >> >> Kari and Patrick Gateley >> 1988 C 44' "Odessa" >> ___ >> >> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each >> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - >> use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >> >> > > > -- Forwarded message -- > From: David Risch > To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 20:34:49 + > Subject: Re: Stus-List C 44 Navtec backstay psi > > On my 40 I keep mine at 1000 or thereabouts… > > > > *David F. Risch* > > *(401) 419-4650* > > > > *From:* CnC-List *On Behalf Of *Patrick > Gateley via CnC-List > *Sent:* Monday, December 2, 2019 2:50 PM > *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com > *Cc:* Patrick Gateley > *Subject:* Stus-List C 44 Navtec backstay psi > > > > Hi all, > > > > We just had our backstay adjuster rebuilt and am wondering what PSI we > should keep it at while moored? > > > > Thanks > > > > Kari and Patrick Gateley > > 1988 C 44' "Odessa" > > > > -- Forwarded message -- > From: "Matthew L. Wolford" > To: > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 15:58:40 -0500 > Subject: Re: Stus-List C 44 Navtec backstay psi > I only do about 500 pounds sitting at the dock. I might go a little > higher on at a mooring just because the boat bounces around more. > > *From:* David Risch via CnC-List > *Sent:* Monday, December 02, 2019 3:34 PM > *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com > *Cc:* David Risch > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List C 44 Navtec backstay psi > > > On my 40 I keep mine at 1000 or thereabouts… > > > > *David F. Risch* > > *(401) 419-4650* > > > > *From:* CnC-List *On Behalf Of *Patrick > Gateley via CnC-List > *Sent:* Monday, December 2, 2019 2:50 PM > *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com > *Cc:* Patrick Gateley > *Subject:* Stus-List C 44 Navtec backstay psi > > > > Hi all, > > > > We just had our backstay adjuster rebuilt and am wondering what PSI we > should keep it at while moored? > > > > Thanks > > > > Kari and Patrick Gateley > > 1988 C 44' "Odessa" > > -- > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated.
Re: Stus-List Navtec backstay psi
Hi Paul, My earlier comment, "if your headstay isn't set properly" inferred "if it is too long or too slack" as the backstay needs something to tension against. Pumping the backstay to 2500# when the headstay is tight will pull the masthead back a few inches and tension the headstay. Doing that with a loose headstay might exceed mast bend design and damage the mast and or the partners. Answers setting up your rig at the dock can be found in Selden's manual on the subject. That's what I use because it can be done with a simple folding metric ruler. It also explains the theory behind each adjustment. The best tuning is proven by sailing and after many trial and error type adjustments. Keep a log of each measurement, and each change and it's effect on sailing performance after sailing and eventually you will achieve optimum. Dock tuning: http://www.seldenmast.com/files/595-540-E.pdf Sail shape: https://www.uksailmakers.com/accumeasure Chuck, Resolute, C 34R, Pasadena, Md > On December 3, 2019 at 9:50 AM Paul via CnC-List > wrote: > > > Brings a good question. How do I know my headstay is set properly? I've > always wondered and never known an answer. How do I know that my main sail > is optimum shape as a result? > > Paul Hood > C '81 > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 23:58:18 -0500 (EST) > From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Subject: Re: Stus-List C 44 Navtec backstay psi > Message-ID: <1743639909.488638.1575349099...@connect.xfinity.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I think rule of thumb for hydraulic backstay is 500 to 600# at the dock and > no more than 25% breaking strength maximum when sailing. For my -10 rated > for 10,000#, that's around 2500#. Probably much higher for your larger > backstay. Of course this is moot if your headstay isn't set properly. > Some boats add a 2" toggle in winds under 15 knots to the headstay so the > main can be flattened without over tensioning the genoa. Physics. > > Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute, 1989 C 34R > > > > > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and > every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Stus-List Navtec backstay psi - now headsail & mainsail shape
On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:50 AM Paul via CnC-List wrote: > Brings a good question. How do I know my headstay is set properly? I've > always wondered and never known an answer. How do I know that my main sail > is optimum shape as a result? > > Paul Hood > C '81 VERY complicated question and definitely a new thread. No simple answer. Answer depends on your rig, the cut and age of your sails and lots of factors. Over the years, I've added pre-bend to Touche's rig by tensioning the forward lower shrouds (not possible with inline shrouds), added 5 inches to the headstay, adjusted the turnbuckle on the roller furler, etc. in an effort to optimize headsail and mainsail shaping. The reconfigurations came from years of sailing, racing, reading and discussions with sailmakers and fellow racers. Having said that, there are general suggestions that may apply. If you haven't read North U's book Racing Trim by Bill Gladstone, it's a good start. It covers rig tuning, sail shape and lots of topics pertinent to your question. I'll let others chime in for a while and see what's said. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Stus-List Navtec backstay psi
Brings a good question. How do I know my headstay is set properly? I've always wondered and never known an answer. How do I know that my main sail is optimum shape as a result? Paul Hood C '81 Message: 6 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 23:58:18 -0500 (EST) From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List C 44 Navtec backstay psi Message-ID: <1743639909.488638.1575349099...@connect.xfinity.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I think rule of thumb for hydraulic backstay is 500 to 600# at the dock and no more than 25% breaking strength maximum when sailing. For my -10 rated for 10,000#, that's around 2500#. Probably much higher for your larger backstay. Of course this is moot if your headstay isn't set properly. Some boats add a 2" toggle in winds under 15 knots to the headstay so the main can be flattened without over tensioning the genoa. Physics. Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute, 1989 C 34R ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List C 44 Navtec backstay psi
The new HARKEN backstay adjusters are being shipped without a gage. I have a Sailtec on my C 36. It does have a gauge but I have a batten taped to the adjuster and it is marked such that it can be adjusted based on the marks which equate to known weather conditions rather than rely on the pressure gage which is barely readableAt the dock I tension it enough to make sure that the mast is not moving. Sail Safe, Mike Mikel Brannon Virginia Lee 93295 C 36 CB Virginia Beach, VA > On Dec 2, 2019, at 11:58 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List > wrote: > > I think rule of thumb for hydraulic backstay is 500 to 600# at the dock and > no more than 25% breaking strength maximum when sailing. For my -10 rated > for 10,000#, that's around 2500#. Probably much higher for your larger > backstay. Of course this is moot if your headstay isn't set properly. Some > boats add a 2" toggle in winds under 15 knots to the headstay so the main can > be flattened without over tensioning the genoa. Physics. > > Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute, 1989 C 34R > > >> On December 2, 2019 at 2:50 PM Patrick Gateley via CnC-List >> wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> We just had our backstay adjuster rebuilt and am wondering what PSI we >> should keep it at while moored? >> >> Thanks >> >> Kari and Patrick Gateley >> 1988 C 44' "Odessa" >> ___ >> >> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and >> every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use >> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >> > > > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and > every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
