Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

[Bob Mann via CnC-List]

The one advantage to having an ATN-type tacker or pole setup is that it brings 
the tack closer to the centerline, which gets more sail out from behind the 
main.  It should give you more speed.

Both inside gybe and outside gybe are done outside the forestay.  Inside gybe 
has lazy sheet pass between the forestay and spinnaker; outside gybe has lazy 
sheet pass in front of spinnaker -- outside of everything.

Inside gybe is generally for lighter air.

Bob

> On 03/10/2021 8:57 PM Dave S via CnC-List  wrote:
>  
>  
> I’m confused.  Maybe I have a different sail
>  
> Mine tacks down to the bow roller via a line led to the cockpit.  I can 
> ease the tack to ‘fly’ the kite somewhat.  Makes a huge difference when you 
> get it right.  I would not use a tacker point-loading  my furler extrusion as 
> the sail is nearly 1000 sqft, and it really drives the boat in a breeze.I 
> gybe it ahead of the forestay.   The sheets always end up wet, if only when I 
> douse the sail.  I may try to gybe behind the forestay but I expect it to get 
> stuck.  as I do this singlehanded usually would rather not have to clear it, 
> and I’m not sure there’s much advantage other than shorter sheets. (Too 
> late). I bought expensive lightweight sheets that are slightly too small for 
> my self trailers.  If I don’t wrap 4-5 times they can slip.  First world 
> problem. 
>  
> I only use a pole - a whisker pole  - when there’s very little breeze and 
> I’m off the wind.  When the boat is moving the apparent wind can be so little 
> in those conditions that the sail is hard to keep filled.I support the 
> pole with a topping lift to hold the sheet (and clew)  out.  This way I can 
> be as lazy as the weather.
>  
> Am self taught - Am I missing something?
>  
> Some pics 
>  
> https://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/2021/03/spinnaker-pics.html?m=1
>  
>  
> Dave.  33-2 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
> > > On Mar 10, 2021, at 10:57 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > As I've said before, the Tacker puts a side load on your 
> furler foil.  Be careful!
> >  
> > Joel
> > 
> > On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 10:55 AM Matthew via CnC-List < 
> > cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> > 
> > > > > I'm anticipating the hard part will be getting the tack 
> > connected to the ATN Tacker under load before the jibe (which I haven't 
> > tried yet).  The issue will be how close I can get the tack to the Tacker 
> > shackle by manipulating the pole.  I'm thinking if we raise the mast end, 
> > this will bring the other end back to the forestay.  The Tacker can be 
> > freely adjusted up and down.  Reattaching the tack from the Tacker to the 
> > pole should be the easy part as I'll be using a guy that is not under load 
> > (at first), and the shackle on my Tacker is a Tylaska.
> > > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Jeff Nelson via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> > > mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com >
> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 9:56 AM
> > > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > > Cc: Jeff Nelson < jhnelso...@gmail.com 
> > > mailto:jhnelso...@gmail.com >
> > > Subject: Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe
> > > 
> > > Cool.  All clear now.  I think the hard part will be getting 
> > > back from Tacker to pole under load after the gybe, but assuming the tack 
> > > goes to a winch will work just fine.
> > > Cheers,
> > >Jeff
> > > 
> > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list 
> > > to help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the 
> > > list - use PayPal to send contribution --
> > > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
> > > 
> > > > > 
> >  
> > --
> > Joel
> > 
> > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to 
> > help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list 
> > - use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  
> > Thanks - Stu
> > 
> > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to 
> > help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list 
> > - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks 
> > - Stu
> 
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

[Dave S via CnC-List]

That’s a cool solution.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 10, 2021, at 1:41 PM, Ted Drossos via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Here's a link to how I added a midship cleat.
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/206427463229026/permalink/298001127404992
> 
> Ted Drossos
> C 110
> Lady in Red
> Bay Shore, NY
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Peter McMinn via CnC-List 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: petemcm...@gmail.com
> Sent: Wed, Mar 10, 2021 2:27 am
> Subject: Stus-List midship cleats on aluminum rail?
> 
> A question for those of us with aluminum toe rails. I’d like to find a 
> solution for midship cleating for docking/departing and springline placement. 
> I’m currently securing a line around a stanchion mount, which seems strong, 
> but I’d like to find a cleat that mounts to the toe rail. Haven’t seen 
> anything in the catalogs. I’m thinking a carabiner or even a soft shackle 
> through a rail hole might be a good fix. Given the general opinion that 
> midship cleating is handy, I’m curious what you use.
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

[Dave S via CnC-List]

I’m confused.  Maybe I have a different sail

Mine tacks down to the bow roller via a line led to the cockpit.  I can ease 
the tack to ‘fly’ the kite somewhat.  Makes a huge difference when you get it 
right.  I would not use a tacker point-loading  my furler extrusion as the sail 
is nearly 1000 sqft, and it really drives the boat in a breeze.I gybe it 
ahead of the forestay.   The sheets always end up wet, if only when I douse the 
sail.  I may try to gybe behind the forestay but I expect it to get stuck.  as 
I do this singlehanded usually would rather not have to clear it, and I’m not 
sure there’s much advantage other than shorter sheets. (Too late). I bought 
expensive lightweight sheets that are slightly too small for my self trailers.  
If I don’t wrap 4-5 times they can slip.  First world problem. 

I only use a pole - a whisker pole  - when there’s very little breeze and I’m 
off the wind.  When the boat is moving the apparent wind can be so little in 
those conditions that the sail is hard to keep filled.I support the pole 
with a topping lift to hold the sheet (and clew)  out.  This way I can be as 
lazy as the weather.

Am self taught - Am I missing something?

Some pics 

https://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/2021/03/spinnaker-pics.html?m=1


Dave.  33-2 


Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 10, 2021, at 10:57 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> As I've said before, the Tacker puts a side load on your furler foil.  Be 
> careful!
> 
> Joel
> 
>> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 10:55 AM Matthew via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> I'm anticipating the hard part will be getting the tack connected to the ATN 
>> Tacker under load before the jibe (which I haven't tried yet).  The issue 
>> will be how close I can get the tack to the Tacker shackle by manipulating 
>> the pole.  I'm thinking if we raise the mast end, this will bring the other 
>> end back to the forestay.  The Tacker can be freely adjusted up and down.  
>> Reattaching the tack from the Tacker to the pole should be the easy part as 
>> I'll be using a guy that is not under load (at first), and the shackle on my 
>> Tacker is a Tylaska. 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Jeff Nelson via CnC-List  
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 9:56 AM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Cc: Jeff Nelson 
>> Subject: Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe
>> 
>> Cool.  All clear now.  I think the hard part will be getting back from 
>> Tacker to pole under load after the gybe, but assuming the tack goes to a 
>> winch will work just fine.
>> Cheers,
>>Jeff
>> 
>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
>> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - 
>> Stu
> 
> 
> -- 
> Joel 
> 
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

[Peter Fell via CnC-List]

The Johnson what I have.

On Wed., Mar. 10, 2021, 7:32 a.m. Kevin & Renee Hartig via CnC-List, <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
> https://www.anchorexpress.com/c-sherman-johnson-toe-rail-folding-cleat-48-510?_vsrefdom=googleads=f08903d38ee91e1f6c72639b6b9219b6_source=bing_medium=cpc_campaign=**LP%20Shop%20-%20Johnson%20Pump_term=4575755084497855_content=71540%20%7C%20C.%20Sherman%20Johnson%20Toe%20Rail%20Folding%20Cleat%20-%2048-510%20%7C%20%2460.99
> Searched web and found c s johnson cleat for 63.00  at above address
>
> Kevin
> C& C 30 mkll
>
> On Wednesday, March 10, 2021, Bill Coleman via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> That is quite a handsome looking cleat.
>>
>> Bill Coleman
>>
>> Entrada, Erie, PA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Gary Newton via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 10, 2021 8:05 AM
>> *To:* Stus-List
>> *Cc:* Gary Newton
>> *Subject:* Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=598
>>
>> This what I use attached behind the lower stays/shrouds on the Genoa track
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 10, 2021, at 2:27 AM, Peter McMinn via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> A question for those of us with aluminum toe rails. I’d like to find a
>> solution for midship cleating for docking/departing and springline
>> placement. I’m currently securing a line around a stanchion mount, which
>> seems strong, but I’d like to find a cleat that mounts to the toe rail.
>> Haven’t seen anything in the catalogs. I’m thinking a carabiner or even a
>> soft shackle through a rail hole might be a good fix. Given the general
>> opinion that midship cleating is handy, I’m curious what you use.
>>
>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help
>> with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>  Thanks - Stu
>>
>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help
> with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

[Peter McMinn via CnC-List]

Not on FB.

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 10:41 AM Ted Drossos via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Here's a link to how I added a midship cleat.
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/206427463229026/permalink/298001127404992
>
> Ted Drossos
> C 110
> Lady in Red
> Bay Shore, NY
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Peter McMinn via CnC-List 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: petemcm...@gmail.com
> Sent: Wed, Mar 10, 2021 2:27 am
> Subject: Stus-List midship cleats on aluminum rail?
>
> A question for those of us with aluminum toe rails. I’d like to find a
> solution for midship cleating for docking/departing and springline
> placement. I’m currently securing a line around a stanchion mount, which
> seems strong, but I’d like to find a cleat that mounts to the toe rail.
> Haven’t seen anything in the catalogs. I’m thinking a carabiner or even a
> soft shackle through a rail hole might be a good fix. Given the general
> opinion that midship cleating is handy, I’m curious what you use.
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks -
> Stu
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu

-- 
Peter McMinn

 _/)
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

[Jim Reinardy via CnC-List]

+1 on Gary’s solution.  Firewater came with these and I have used them for 
spring lines for years.

Jim Reinardy
C 30-2 “Firewater”
Milwaukee, WI

Get Outlook for iOS

From: Gary Newton via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 7:05:07 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Gary Newton 
Subject: Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=598
This what I use attached behind the lower stays/shrouds on the Genoa track

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 10, 2021, at 2:27 AM, Peter McMinn via CnC-List  
wrote:



A question for those of us with aluminum toe rails. I’d like to find a solution 
for midship cleating for docking/departing and springline placement. I’m 
currently securing a line around a stanchion mount, which seems strong, but I’d 
like to find a cleat that mounts to the toe rail. Haven’t seen anything in the 
catalogs. I’m thinking a carabiner or even a soft shackle through a rail hole 
might be a good fix. Given the general opinion that midship cleating is handy, 
I’m curious what you use.

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

[Bob Mann via CnC-List]

John,
our class of 35-1's in Detroit is going to poling out asymm sails this year.  
It's meant primarily for long legs where gybing shouldn't happen for a long 
time.  The pole will be kept down low, just above the pulpit. Using the pole 
keeps the tack on (near) the centerline of the boat.

We'll see how it goes.

Bob Mann
Mystic

> On 03/10/2021 11:56 AM Matthew via CnC-List  wrote:
>  
>  
> 
> We use the pole down low, fixed in place, just to get the tack in front 
> of the forestay by a few inches.  We don’t adjust the pole unless jibing.
> 
>  
> 
> From: John McLaughlin via CnC-List 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 11:28 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: johnr...@aol.com
> Subject: Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe
> 
>  
> 
> I am the one who is confused. You do not fly an asymmetric spinnaker 
> using a spinnaker pole.
> As for the tack of an assym there are various arrangements. If the tack 
> is attached in some manner to the forestay, you obviously will be doing an 
> outside jibe. If the tack is attached foreword of the forestay the manner of 
> its attachment and gap between the forestay and luff of the spin may make an 
> inside jibe difficult although not much gap is required. 
> 
> However, regarding comments about jibing a pole: if you are flying a true 
> assym you never extend or support the windward corner with a pole in the 
> manner you do a symmetrical spinnaker or a jib or Genoa. A true assym is cut 
> to be flown w/o a pole and using a pole distorts the sail.
> 
> Cheers
> John
> 
> John McLaughlin
> 
> 
> -
> 
> On Wednesday, March 10, 2021 Matthew via CnC-List  mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> 
> Now I'm missing something.  My spin pole extends forward of the forestay, 
> thus necessitating an outside jibe if the tack is attached to/through the 
> pole.  I suppose it doesn't need to be on the weather side of the forestay if 
> it is "locked off" as you say.  However, I normally control the pole with a 
> guy, which won't work on the leeward side.  We don't use the asym often 
> enough to justify a sprit.
> 
>  
> 
> How do you "lock off" the pole?
> 
>  
> 
> -Original Message-
> 
> From: Jeff Nelson via CnC-List  mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com >
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 9:04 AM
> 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> 
> Cc: Jeff Nelson mailto:jhnelso...@gmail.com >
> 
> Subject: Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe
> 
>  
> 
> Maybe I'm completely missing something, but why are we moving the pole on 
> an Asym gybe?
> 
> I would think you would just lock the pole off in the most forward 
> position, so it doesn't move and then just gybe the Asym either inside or 
> outside depending on your preference.  I prefer outsides, I find them easier 
> and less hassle generally than trying to squeeze that big sail through the 
> slot...but I've done both and they both work.
> 
>  
> 
> Cheers,
> 
>   Jeff Nelson
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help 
> with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray%20 Thanks - Stu
> 
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help 
> with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
> 
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

[Ted Drossos via CnC-List]

Here's a link to how I added a midship 
cleat.https://www.facebook.com/groups/206427463229026/permalink/298001127404992
Ted DrossosC 110Lady in RedBay Shore, NY

-Original Message-
From: Peter McMinn via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: petemcm...@gmail.com
Sent: Wed, Mar 10, 2021 2:27 am
Subject: Stus-List midship cleats on aluminum rail?

A question for those of us with aluminum toe rails. I’d like to find a solution 
for midship cleating for docking/departing and springline placement. I’m 
currently securing a line around a stanchion mount, which seems strong, but I’d 
like to find a cleat that mounts to the toe rail. Haven’t seen anything in the 
catalogs. I’m thinking a carabiner or even a soft shackle through a rail hole 
might be a good fix. Given the general opinion that midship cleating is handy, 
I’m curious what you use.Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to 
the list to help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to 
the list - use PayPal to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  
Thanks - StuThanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

[Novabraid via CnC-List]

John,

I can understand where you want to pull the tack line to make a “firm luff”.   
I tend to do this in light air before a gybe. What I don’t understand is trying 
to feed the “tack” between the luff and forestay.

Are you sure you don’t mean the clew of the sail (where your sheets are 
attached) pulled between the luff and forestay?

I’ve found to have somewhat better luck easing the tack line in heavy air prior 
to the gybe which opens up the slot between the luff and forestay and allows 
the clew along with the rest of the sail to have more room and less opportunity 
to wrap around the forestay.  Most important is to head as far downwind as 
possible so you can blanket the chute with the mainsail, depowering the sail 
making it less likely to catch the wind when trying to move it across the bow.

Many A-Sails have a small fiber mini-batten at the tack that you can use to 
keep the lazy sheet from dropping under the bow during an outside gybe or to 
keep it from fouling on the furler or other deck hardware on an inside gybe.

Chuck Gilchrest

S/V Half Magic

1983 LF 35

Padanaram, MA

 

From: John McLaughlin via CnC-List  
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 7:44 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: sailrm...@comcast.net; johnr...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

 

Please don't make such a simple thing so complicated.  The inside jibe is 
simple and things don't get tangled up as they tend to with the outside jibe. 
If you have an adjustable tack pull it in to establish a firm  luff.. Head dead 
downwind while adjusting both spin sheets to bring the tack to the forestay.  
Continue to feed the tack through the space between the luff and forestay 
keeping very slight pressure on the old active sheet and rapidly pulling the 
sail through the slot with the new active sheet as the helm is brought through 
the jibe. As the spin fills release all pressure on the old active sheet. In 
doing this the sail and lines are always under control and not flying about and 
becoming tangled.

John McLaughlin

  _  

On Tuesday, March 9, 2021 Bob Mann via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Matthew, you probably want to have a short, dedicated gybing tack line.  Attach 
it prior to the gybe (I'm thinking "inside" of pole).  Gybe pole and pre-set 
it, then gybe sail.  When done, remove temporary tack line. 

  

At least that's how I hope it will work.  I've never done it but will find out 
this spring. 

  

Bob Mann 

C mk I 

On 03/08/2021 2:30 PM Matthew via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote: 

  

  

David:

 

I believe we discussed this issue not too long ago.  This year 
I plan to use an ATN Tacker for asymm jibes.  Given that we use our spin pole 
for the tack most of the time, the interesting part will be moving the tack 
from the pole to the Tacker (then back to the pole again).

 

From: David Knecht via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > 
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2021 10:34 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com> >
Subject: Stus-List Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

 

I have been thinking about ordering long sheets for my “reacher" (A sail) to be 
able to do outside jibes.  All the videos I have seen for this technique have 
the spinnaker tack on a sprit or attached forward of the headstay.  That seems 
pretty simple, but I don’t have an attachment point there.  My tack can either 
be attached directly to a padeye on the deck behind the forestay or to a strap 
around the furled headsail and then to the padeye.   I think that means that 
every time I jibe, the tack line will wrap around the headstay.  Is that a 
problem?   I could douse with the sock and redeploy after jibe (sounds slow for 
racing) or add an attachment point to the pulpit for a block so I am forward of 
the headstay.  Am I missing something?  How do others without sprits do this?  
Dave

 

S/V Aries

1990 C 34+

New London, CT




 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  
 Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Midship cleat

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

And then there is the Colstrap - 

 

Colstrap7%.jpg

 

From: Adam Hayden via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 10:27 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Adam Hayden
Subject: Stus-List Midship cleat

 

I just attach a shackle to my toe rail.  Has worked great for spring lines.
Even in heavy weather.  My concern with tying  a line to a stanchion would
be the additional force if the line rides up the stanchion.

 

 

Adam

C 36

PICTOU NS

 

 

 

Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

[Matthew via CnC-List]

We use the pole down low, fixed in place, just to get the tack in front of the 
forestay by a few inches.  We don’t adjust the pole unless jibing.

 

From: John McLaughlin via CnC-List  
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 11:28 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: johnr...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

 

I am the one who is confused. You do not fly an asymmetric spinnaker using a 
spinnaker pole. 
As for the tack of an assym there are various arrangements. If the tack is 
attached in some manner to the forestay, you obviously will be doing an outside 
jibe. If the tack is attached foreword of the forestay the manner of its 
attachment and gap between the forestay and luff of the spin may make an inside 
jibe difficult although not much gap is required.  

However, regarding comments about jibing a pole: if you are flying a true assym 
you never extend or support the windward corner with a pole in the manner you 
do a symmetrical spinnaker or a jib or Genoa. A true assym is cut to be flown 
w/o a pole and using a pole distorts the sail.

Cheers 
John

John McLaughlin

  _  

On Wednesday, March 10, 2021 Matthew via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Now I'm missing something.  My spin pole extends forward of the forestay, thus 
necessitating an outside jibe if the tack is attached to/through the pole.  I 
suppose it doesn't need to be on the weather side of the forestay if it is 
"locked off" as you say.  However, I normally control the pole with a guy, 
which won't work on the leeward side.  We don't use the asym often enough to 
justify a sprit.

 

How do you "lock off" the pole?

 

-Original Message-

From: Jeff Nelson via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > 

Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 9:04 AM

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  

Cc: Jeff Nelson mailto:jhnelso...@gmail.com> >

Subject: Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

 

Maybe I'm completely missing something, but why are we moving the pole on an 
Asym gybe?

I would think you would just lock the pole off in the most forward position, so 
it doesn't move and then just gybe the Asym either inside or outside depending 
on your preference.  I prefer outsides, I find them easier and less hassle 
generally than trying to squeeze that big sail through the slot...but I've done 
both and they both work.

 

Cheers,

  Jeff Nelson

 

 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  
 Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Midship cleats on aluminum rail?

[David Miles via CnC-List]

We bought a folding cleat that attacks solidly to the toerail with two 
bolts using two toenail holes. Works great and folds off the deck to avoid 
a tripping hazard.

Not sure where we ordered it at the moment but a Google search may find it.
David Miles
Impulse 1988 30-2

On March 9, 2021 11:27:32 p.m. Peter McMinn via CnC-List 
 wrote:
A question for those of us with aluminum toe rails. I’d like to find a 
solution for midship cleating for docking/departing and springline 
placement. I’m currently securing a line around a stanchion mount, which 
seems strong, but I’d like to find a cleat that mounts to the toe rail. 
Haven’t seen anything in the catalogs. I’m thinking a carabiner or even a 
soft shackle through a rail hole might be a good fix. Given the general 
opinion that midship cleating is handy, I’m curious what you use.
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

[Ron Casciato via CnC-List]

I have two of these on my 38MKII for over 12 years.  I use them for spring 
lines and a central docking line……….never an issue with the toe rail on a 38.  
Since the toe rail does have a rolled top, I simply made a couple of aluminum 
spacers from bar stock and slipped them below the rolled top and drilled for 
the bolt.  

 

They work great.

 

Ron C

Impromptu

C 38MKIIC ‘77

 

From: Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List  
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 3:32 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Tom Buscaglia 
Subject: Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

 

This maybe?

 

https://www.internationalmarineservice.com/C-Sherman-Johnson-Toe-Rail-Folding-Cleat-p/cs-48-510.htm

 

They used to make bales that bolted to the rail too. But I can’t seem to find 
then anywhere anymore.   I have 3 on each side.  2 for fenders and 1 between 
the rigging and the head stay that I use for my preventer.

Tom Buscaglia

S/V Alera 

1990 C 37+/40

Vashon WA

P 206.463.9200

C 305.409.3660

 





On Mar 9, 2021, at 11:28 PM, Peter McMinn via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:



A question for those of us with aluminum toe rails. I’d like to find a solution 
for midship cleating for docking/departing and springline placement. I’m 
currently securing a line around a stanchion mount, which seems strong, but I’d 
like to find a cleat that mounts to the toe rail. Haven’t seen anything in the 
catalogs. I’m thinking a carabiner or even a soft shackle through a rail hole 
might be a good fix. Given the general opinion that midship cleating is handy, 
I’m curious what you use.

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

[John McLaughlin via CnC-List]

I am the one who is confused. You do not fly an asymmetric spinnaker using a 
spinnaker pole. 
As for the tack of an assym there are various arrangements. If the tack is 
attached in some manner to the forestay, you obviously will be doing an outside 
jibe. If the tack is attached foreword of the forestay the manner of its 
attachment and gap between the forestay and luff of the spin may make an inside 
jibe difficult although not much gap is required.  

However, regarding comments about jibing a pole: if you are flying a true assym 
you never extend or support the windward corner with a pole in the manner you 
do a symmetrical spinnaker or a jib or Genoa. A true assym is cut to be flown 
w/o a pole and using a pole distorts the sail.

Cheers 
John

John McLaughlin
On Wednesday, March 10, 2021 Matthew via CnC-List  wrote:
Now I'm missing something.  My spin pole extends forward of the forestay, thus 
necessitating an outside jibe if the tack is attached to/through the pole.  I 
suppose it doesn't need to be on the weather side of the forestay if it is 
"locked off" as you say.  However, I normally control the pole with a guy, 
which won't work on the leeward side.  We don't use the asym often enough to 
justify a sprit.

How do you "lock off" the pole?

-Original Message-
From: Jeff Nelson via CnC-List  
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 9:04 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jeff Nelson 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

Maybe I'm completely missing something, but why are we moving the pole on an 
Asym gybe?
I would think you would just lock the pole off in the most forward position, so 
it doesn't move and then just gybe the Asym either inside or outside depending 
on your preference.  I prefer outsides, I find them easier and less hassle 
generally than trying to squeeze that big sail through the slot...but I've done 
both and they both work.

Cheers,
  Jeff Nelson


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

[Jeff Nelson via CnC-List]

From my past of peeling spinnakers, we would use a peeling strap, which 
was long enough to reach from
tack to attachment point (in your case tacker).  Hook it up, ease the 
guy until the strap is taking the load,
drop the guy, tack the pole, re-attach guy, load up the guy, blow the 
strap and winch the tack back out

to the pole.

Of course, when we were peeling, we would be hooking up the guy to the 
new spin...  :-)
Then we'd just blow the peeling strap and the foredeck gang would reel 
in the spin.

Most times these days there is less of a gang...

Cheers,
   Jeff

On 2021-03-10 11:54 a.m., Matthew via CnC-List wrote:

I'm anticipating the hard part will be getting the tack connected to the ATN 
Tacker under load before the jibe (which I haven't tried yet).  The issue will 
be how close I can get the tack to the Tacker shackle by manipulating the pole. 
 I'm thinking if we raise the mast end, this will bring the other end back to 
the forestay.  The Tacker can be freely adjusted up and down.  Reattaching the 
tack from the Tacker to the pole should be the easy part as I'll be using a guy 
that is not under load (at first), and the shackle on my Tacker is a Tylaska.





--
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Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

As I've said before, the Tacker puts a side load on your furler foil.  Be
careful!

Joel

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 10:55 AM Matthew via CnC-List 
wrote:

> I'm anticipating the hard part will be getting the tack connected to the
> ATN Tacker under load before the jibe (which I haven't tried yet).  The
> issue will be how close I can get the tack to the Tacker shackle by
> manipulating the pole.  I'm thinking if we raise the mast end, this will
> bring the other end back to the forestay.  The Tacker can be freely
> adjusted up and down.  Reattaching the tack from the Tacker to the pole
> should be the easy part as I'll be using a guy that is not under load (at
> first), and the shackle on my Tacker is a Tylaska.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jeff Nelson via CnC-List 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 9:56 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Jeff Nelson 
> Subject: Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe
>
> Cool.  All clear now.  I think the hard part will be getting back from
> Tacker to pole under load after the gybe, but assuming the tack goes to a
> winch will work just fine.
> Cheers,
>Jeff
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
>


-- 
Joel
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

[Matthew via CnC-List]

I'm anticipating the hard part will be getting the tack connected to the ATN 
Tacker under load before the jibe (which I haven't tried yet).  The issue will 
be how close I can get the tack to the Tacker shackle by manipulating the pole. 
 I'm thinking if we raise the mast end, this will bring the other end back to 
the forestay.  The Tacker can be freely adjusted up and down.  Reattaching the 
tack from the Tacker to the pole should be the easy part as I'll be using a guy 
that is not under load (at first), and the shackle on my Tacker is a Tylaska. 

-Original Message-
From: Jeff Nelson via CnC-List  
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 9:56 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jeff Nelson 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

Cool.  All clear now.  I think the hard part will be getting back from Tacker 
to pole under load after the gybe, but assuming the tack goes to a winch will 
work just fine.
Cheers,
   Jeff

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Midship cleat

[Peter McMinn via CnC-List]

I neglected checking archived discussion on the subject. Others have noted
different options. It occurs to me a rail attached cleat attached could
pose a problem with snagging sheets, etc. Going to experiment with soft
shackle--easy to adjust and no wear on the metal.

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 7:27 AM Adam Hayden via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I just attach a shackle to my toe rail.  Has worked great for spring
> lines.  Even in heavy weather.  My concern with tying  a line to a
> stanchion would be the additional force if the line rides up the stanchion.
>
>
> Adam
> C 36
> PICTOU NS
>
>
>
> Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada’s largest network.
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu

-- 
Peter McMinn

 _/)
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

I think attaching to The forestay is what you would do if you didn't have a
suitable bow roller.  Also, attaching to the forestay helps keep it
centered.

Bill

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 10:10 AM David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> The subject of ATN tackers raises another issue. My North Reacher has an
> equivalent sleeve that can be attached around the furled genoa.  So it
> seems like there are two ways to rig the chute.  One is to have a block
> attached to the padeye behind the forestay and up to the tack/sleeve which
> would control the height of the tack, and pin the tack to the forestay.
> The other would be to use a block attached to the anchor roller and then up
> to the tack, so the tack can run up and away from the boat.  What is the
> advantage of attaching the tack to the genoa/forestay?  It seems like the
> anchor roller attachment would be better for chute position and shape,
> allow it to be used on more downwind angles but is there a disadvantage?
> Dave
>
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
> On Mar 10, 2021, at 9:55 AM, Jeff Nelson via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Cool.  All clear now.  I think the hard part will be getting back from
> Tacker to pole under load after the gybe,
> but assuming the tack goes to a winch will work just fine.
> Cheers,
>   Jeff
>
> On 2021-03-10 10:51 a.m., Matthew via CnC-List wrote:
>
> Thanks.  All these machinations is why I'm going to try using an ATN
> tacker for jibes.  Then I can move the pole at my leisure.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jeff Nelson via CnC-List 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 9:45 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Jeff Nelson 
> Subject: Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe
>
> I rigged mine as a Dip Pole gybe so I could handle unloaded lines on my
> Sym Spin Gybes.  So I have two guys run back to my primary winches.  Load
> them both up and the pole doesn't move (assuming they are attached to the
> pole and not the sail (for Asym work), if you want to adjust the exact
> position of the pole, you can loosen one and tighten the other.  I use
> cabin top winches for spin sheeting.  A separate tack line can be adjusted
> with the cabin top winch and locked off freeing the winch back up for sail
> trim.   A couple extra lines but it works.
> Drawbacks are only being able to adjust tack line on one tack...I suppose
> I could put in a diverter, but I've never really needed to adjust that
> finely in my use.
>
> Since your pole goes out past the forestay, you can do either inside or
> outside as you've created a slot between your headstay and pole end.
> However, if your comfortable with outside, I'd stick with it. To me outside
> always made more sense, moving a 1000 feet of fabric through a narrow slow
> to me is just pure entertainment.
>
> Food for thought.
>
> Cheers,
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
>
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

[Richard Bush via CnC-List]

 
 I have the same set up as Gary Newton mentioned: 
https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=598
They're great but watch your toes if you are barefoot...!
Richard
 s/v Bushmark4: 1985 C 37: CB: Ohio River, Mile 596;

Richard N. Bush Law Offices 
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine 
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255 
 
-Original Message-
From: Gary Newton via CnC-List 
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Gary Newton 
Sent: Wed, Mar 10, 2021 8:05 am
Subject: Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=598This what I use attached behind the 
lower stays/shrouds on the Genoa track

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 10, 2021, at 2:27 AM, Peter McMinn via CnC-List  
wrote:



A question for those of us with aluminum toe rails. I’d like to find a 
solution for midship cleating for docking/departing and springline placement. 
I’m currently securing a line around a stanchion mount, which seems strong, but 
I’d like to find a cleat that mounts to the toe rail. Haven’t seen anything in 
the catalogs. I’m thinking a carabiner or even a soft shackle through a rail 
hole might be a good fix. Given the general opinion that midship cleating is 
handy, I’m curious what you use.Thanks to all of the subscribers that 
contributed to the list to help with the costs involved.  If you want to show 
your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution --   
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - StuThanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

[Kevin & Renee Hartig via CnC-List]

https://www.anchorexpress.com/c-sherman-johnson-toe-rail-folding-cleat-48-510?_vsrefdom=googleads=f08903d38ee91e1f6c72639b6b9219b6_source=bing_medium=cpc_campaign=**LP%20Shop%20-%20Johnson%20Pump_term=4575755084497855_content=71540%20%7C%20C.%20Sherman%20Johnson%20Toe%20Rail%20Folding%20Cleat%20-%2048-510%20%7C%20%2460.99
Searched web and found c s johnson cleat for 63.00  at above address

Kevin
C& C 30 mkll

On Wednesday, March 10, 2021, Bill Coleman via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> That is quite a handsome looking cleat.
>
> Bill Coleman
>
> Entrada, Erie, PA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Gary Newton via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 10, 2021 8:05 AM
> *To:* Stus-List
> *Cc:* Gary Newton
> *Subject:* Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?
>
>
>
> https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=598
>
> This what I use attached behind the lower stays/shrouds on the Genoa track
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
> On Mar 10, 2021, at 2:27 AM, Peter McMinn via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> 
>
> A question for those of us with aluminum toe rails. I’d like to find a
> solution for midship cleating for docking/departing and springline
> placement. I’m currently securing a line around a stanchion mount, which
> seems strong, but I’d like to find a cleat that mounts to the toe rail.
> Haven’t seen anything in the catalogs. I’m thinking a carabiner or even a
> soft shackle through a rail hole might be a good fix. Given the general
> opinion that midship cleating is handy, I’m curious what you use.
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
>
>
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Midship cleat

[Adam Hayden via CnC-List]

I just attach a shackle to my toe rail.  Has worked great for spring lines.  
Even in heavy weather.  My concern with tying  a line to a stanchion would be 
the additional force if the line rides up the stanchion.


Adam
C 36
PICTOU NS



Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada’s largest network.
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

The subject of ATN tackers raises another issue. My North Reacher has an 
equivalent sleeve that can be attached around the furled genoa.  So it seems 
like there are two ways to rig the chute.  One is to have a block attached to 
the padeye behind the forestay and up to the tack/sleeve which would control 
the height of the tack, and pin the tack to the forestay.  The other would be 
to use a block attached to the anchor roller and then up to the tack, so the 
tack can run up and away from the boat.  What is the advantage of attaching the 
tack to the genoa/forestay?  It seems like the anchor roller attachment would 
be better for chute position and shape, allow it to be used on more downwind 
angles but is there a disadvantage?  Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT



> On Mar 10, 2021, at 9:55 AM, Jeff Nelson via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Cool.  All clear now.  I think the hard part will be getting back from Tacker 
> to pole under load after the gybe,
> but assuming the tack goes to a winch will work just fine.
> Cheers,
>   Jeff
> 
> On 2021-03-10 10:51 a.m., Matthew via CnC-List wrote:
>> Thanks.  All these machinations is why I'm going to try using an ATN tacker 
>> for jibes.  Then I can move the pole at my leisure.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Jeff Nelson via CnC-List 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 9:45 AM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Cc: Jeff Nelson 
>> Subject: Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe
>> 
>> I rigged mine as a Dip Pole gybe so I could handle unloaded lines on my Sym 
>> Spin Gybes.  So I have two guys run back to my primary winches.  Load them 
>> both up and the pole doesn't move (assuming they are attached to the pole 
>> and not the sail (for Asym work), if you want to adjust the exact position 
>> of the pole, you can loosen one and tighten the other.  I use cabin top 
>> winches for spin sheeting.  A separate tack line can be adjusted with the 
>> cabin top winch and locked off freeing the winch back up for sail trim.   A 
>> couple extra lines but it works.
>> Drawbacks are only being able to adjust tack line on one tack...I suppose I 
>> could put in a diverter, but I've never really needed to adjust that finely 
>> in my use.
>> 
>> Since your pole goes out past the forestay, you can do either inside or 
>> outside as you've created a slot between your headstay and pole end.  
>> However, if your comfortable with outside, I'd stick with it. To me outside 
>> always made more sense, moving a 1000 feet of fabric through a narrow slow 
>> to me is just pure entertainment.
>> 
>> Food for thought.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Jeff
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

[Jeff Nelson via CnC-List]

Cool.  All clear now.  I think the hard part will be getting back from 
Tacker to pole under load after the gybe,

but assuming the tack goes to a winch will work just fine.
Cheers,
  Jeff

On 2021-03-10 10:51 a.m., Matthew via CnC-List wrote:

Thanks.  All these machinations is why I'm going to try using an ATN tacker for 
jibes.  Then I can move the pole at my leisure.

-Original Message-
From: Jeff Nelson via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 9:45 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jeff Nelson 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

I rigged mine as a Dip Pole gybe so I could handle unloaded lines on my Sym 
Spin Gybes.  So I have two guys run back to my primary winches.  Load them both 
up and the pole doesn't move (assuming they are attached to the pole and not 
the sail (for Asym work), if you want to adjust the exact position of the pole, 
you can loosen one and tighten the other.  I use cabin top winches for spin 
sheeting.  A separate tack line can be adjusted with the cabin top winch and 
locked off freeing the winch back up for sail trim.   A couple extra lines but 
it works.
Drawbacks are only being able to adjust tack line on one tack...I suppose I 
could put in a diverter, but I've never really needed to adjust that finely in 
my use.

Since your pole goes out past the forestay, you can do either inside or outside 
as you've created a slot between your headstay and pole end.  However, if your 
comfortable with outside, I'd stick with it. To me outside always made more 
sense, moving a 1000 feet of fabric through a narrow slow to me is just pure 
entertainment.

Food for thought.

Cheers,
 Jeff





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Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
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Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

This seems to be A YMMV situation depending on exactly how the sail is rigged.
On my boat the tack is basically tied to the rolled-up genoa. An inside jibe 
would have to still be ahead of the genoa or it would pull the halyard under 
the forestay. I have only ever done outside jibes for this reason. My 
experience is all light and medium air, my ancient autopilot won't hold when 
things get sporty so the chute comes down at that point.
A chute poled out ahead of the forestay might give you more options.
Note to cruisers: If you are not flying a chute, you are missing out. Light air 
off the wind is a hot slow slog with just the white sails. One of our hot-day 
setups is just the chute and a big sun awning over the boom. Gliding along at 
4-5 knots in the shade beats motoring at 6 knots with a giant cloud of exhaust 
keeping pace with you.


Joe Della Barba
Coquina C 35 MK I
Kent Island MD USA




Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
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Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

[Matthew via CnC-List]

Thanks.  All these machinations is why I'm going to try using an ATN tacker for 
jibes.  Then I can move the pole at my leisure.

-Original Message-
From: Jeff Nelson via CnC-List  
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 9:45 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jeff Nelson 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

I rigged mine as a Dip Pole gybe so I could handle unloaded lines on my Sym 
Spin Gybes.  So I have two guys run back to my primary winches.  Load them both 
up and the pole doesn't move (assuming they are attached to the pole and not 
the sail (for Asym work), if you want to adjust the exact position of the pole, 
you can loosen one and tighten the other.  I use cabin top winches for spin 
sheeting.  A separate tack line can be adjusted with the cabin top winch and 
locked off freeing the winch back up for sail trim.   A couple extra lines but 
it works.
Drawbacks are only being able to adjust tack line on one tack...I suppose I 
could put in a diverter, but I've never really needed to adjust that finely in 
my use.

Since your pole goes out past the forestay, you can do either inside or outside 
as you've created a slot between your headstay and pole end.  However, if your 
comfortable with outside, I'd stick with it. To me outside always made more 
sense, moving a 1000 feet of fabric through a narrow slow to me is just pure 
entertainment.

Food for thought.

Cheers,
Jeff

On 2021-03-10 10:25 a.m., Matthew via CnC-List wrote:
> Now I'm missing something.  My spin pole extends forward of the forestay, 
> thus necessitating an outside jibe if the tack is attached to/through the 
> pole.  I suppose it doesn't need to be on the weather side of the forestay if 
> it is "locked off" as you say.  However, I normally control the pole with a 
> guy, which won't work on the leeward side.  We don't use the asym often 
> enough to justify a sprit.
>
> How do you "lock off" the pole?
>

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

[Jeff Nelson via CnC-List]

I rigged mine as a Dip Pole gybe so I could handle unloaded lines on my 
Sym Spin Gybes.  So I have two guys
run back to my primary winches.  Load them both up and the pole doesn't 
move (assuming they are attached to the pole and not the sail (for Asym 
work), if you want to adjust the exact position of the pole, you can 
loosen one and tighten the other.  I use cabin top winches for spin 
sheeting.  A separate tack line can be adjusted with the
cabin top winch and locked off freeing the winch back up for sail 
trim.   A couple extra lines but it works.
Drawbacks are only being able to adjust tack line on one tack...I 
suppose I could put in a diverter, but

I've never really needed to adjust that finely in my use.

Since your pole goes out past the forestay, you can do either inside or 
outside as you've created a slot
between your headstay and pole end.  However, if your comfortable with 
outside, I'd stick with it. To
me outside always made more sense, moving a 1000 feet of fabric through 
a narrow slow to me is just

pure entertainment.

Food for thought.

Cheers,
   Jeff

On 2021-03-10 10:25 a.m., Matthew via CnC-List wrote:

Now I'm missing something.  My spin pole extends forward of the forestay, thus 
necessitating an outside jibe if the tack is attached to/through the pole.  I suppose it 
doesn't need to be on the weather side of the forestay if it is "locked off" as 
you say.  However, I normally control the pole with a guy, which won't work on the 
leeward side.  We don't use the asym often enough to justify a sprit.

How do you "lock off" the pole?

-Original Message-
From: Jeff Nelson via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 9:04 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jeff Nelson 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

Maybe I'm completely missing something, but why are we moving the pole on an 
Asym gybe?
I would think you would just lock the pole off in the most forward position, so 
it doesn't move and then just gybe the Asym either inside or outside depending 
on your preference.  I prefer outsides, I find them easier and less hassle 
generally than trying to squeeze that big sail through the slot...but I've done 
both and they both work.

Cheers,
Jeff Nelson


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu



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Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

That is quite a handsome looking cleat.

Bill Coleman

Entrada, Erie, PA

 

 

 

From: Gary Newton via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 8:05 AM
To: Stus-List
Cc: Gary Newton
Subject: Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

 

https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=598

This what I use attached behind the lower stays/shrouds on the Genoa track

Sent from my iPad





On Mar 10, 2021, at 2:27 AM, Peter McMinn via CnC-List  
wrote:



A question for those of us with aluminum toe rails. I’d like to find a solution 
for midship cleating for docking/departing and springline placement. I’m 
currently securing a line around a stanchion mount, which seems strong, but I’d 
like to find a cleat that mounts to the toe rail. Haven’t seen anything in the 
catalogs. I’m thinking a carabiner or even a soft shackle through a rail hole 
might be a good fix. Given the general opinion that midship cleating is handy, 
I’m curious what you use.

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

[Matthew via CnC-List]

Now I'm missing something.  My spin pole extends forward of the forestay, thus 
necessitating an outside jibe if the tack is attached to/through the pole.  I 
suppose it doesn't need to be on the weather side of the forestay if it is 
"locked off" as you say.  However, I normally control the pole with a guy, 
which won't work on the leeward side.  We don't use the asym often enough to 
justify a sprit.

How do you "lock off" the pole?

-Original Message-
From: Jeff Nelson via CnC-List  
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 9:04 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jeff Nelson 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

Maybe I'm completely missing something, but why are we moving the pole on an 
Asym gybe?
I would think you would just lock the pole off in the most forward position, so 
it doesn't move and then just gybe the Asym either inside or outside depending 
on your preference.  I prefer outsides, I find them easier and less hassle 
generally than trying to squeeze that big sail through the slot...but I've done 
both and they both work.

Cheers,
   Jeff Nelson


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

[Jeff Nelson via CnC-List]

Maybe I'm completely missing something, but why are we moving the pole 
on an Asym gybe?
I would think you would just lock the pole off in the most forward 
position, so it doesn't move
and then just gybe the Asym either inside or outside depending on your 
preference.  I prefer outsides,
I find them easier and less hassle generally than trying to squeeze that 
big sail through the slot...but

I've done both and they both work.

Cheers,
  Jeff Nelson


On 2021-03-10 8:44 a.m., John McLaughlin via CnC-List wrote:


Please don't make such a simple thing so complicated.  The inside jibe 
is simple and things don't get tangled up as they tend to with the 
outside jibe. If you have an adjustable tack pull it in to establish a 
firm  luff.. Head dead downwind while adjusting both spin sheets to 
bring the tack to the forestay.  Continue to feed the tack through the 
space between the luff and forestay keeping very slight pressure on 
the old active sheet and rapidly pulling the sail through the slot 
with the new active sheet as the helm is brought through the jibe. As 
the spin fills release all pressure on the old active sheet. In doing 
this the sail and lines are always under control and not flying about 
and becoming tangled.


John McLaughlin





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This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
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send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Soft shackle.
https://youtu.be/DSAMR27tnFI

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 07:54 Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I really like the idea of a soft shackle.  Easy and cheap to install,  and
> if you still really want something more permanent, you can always add it.
>
> Bruce Whitmore
> 1994 C 37/40+
> "Astralis"
> Madeira Beach, FL
> (847) 404-5092
>
> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 2:27 AM Peter McMinn via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> A question for those of us with aluminum toe rails. I’d like to find a
>> solution for midship cleating for docking/departing and springline
>> placement. I’m currently securing a line around a stanchion mount, which
>> seems strong, but I’d like to find a cleat that mounts to the toe rail.
>> Haven’t seen anything in the catalogs. I’m thinking a carabiner or even a
>> soft shackle through a rail hole might be a good fix. Given the general
>> opinion that midship cleating is handy, I’m curious what you use.
>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help
>> with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> Thanks - Stu
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

[Matthew via CnC-List]

I use the Johnson cleat for the same purpose.  It is slightly undersized for my 
toe rail (I had to tap them in place with a hammer), but I have not had any 
other issues.

 

Matt Wolford

C 42 Custom

 

From: dwight veinot via CnC-List  
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 5:59 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: dwight veinot 
Subject: Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

 

Toe rail cleat. Search Binnacle.ca

 

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 3:27 AM Peter McMinn via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

A question for those of us with aluminum toe rails. I’d like to find a solution 
for midship cleating for docking/departing and springline placement. I’m 
currently securing a line around a stanchion mount, which seems strong, but I’d 
like to find a cleat that mounts to the toe rail. Haven’t seen anything in the 
catalogs. I’m thinking a carabiner or even a soft shackle through a rail hole 
might be a good fix. Given the general opinion that midship cleating is handy, 
I’m curious what you use.

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

-- 

Sent from Gmail Mobile

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

[Matthew via CnC-List]

John:

 

I believe the issue for the “outside jibers” is that the tack 
is secured forward of the forestay.  To what is your tack secured?

 

Matt 

 

From: John McLaughlin via CnC-List  
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 7:44 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: sailrm...@comcast.net; johnr...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

 

Please don't make such a simple thing so complicated.  The inside jibe is 
simple and things don't get tangled up as they tend to with the outside jibe. 
If you have an adjustable tack pull it in to establish a firm  luff.. Head dead 
downwind while adjusting both spin sheets to bring the tack to the forestay.  
Continue to feed the tack through the space between the luff and forestay 
keeping very slight pressure on the old active sheet and rapidly pulling the 
sail through the slot with the new active sheet as the helm is brought through 
the jibe. As the spin fills release all pressure on the old active sheet. In 
doing this the sail and lines are always under control and not flying about and 
becoming tangled.

John McLaughlin

Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

[Paul Fountain via CnC-List]

We have had the Johnson toe rail cleats on our 33-ll, work for 10+ years worked 
great for us.  My sister has them on her 30 as well. Like that they fold when 
not needed. And lines are clear of the deck  no tripping hazard going 
forward, especially with he grandkids on board, they don’t always look where 
they are going!

Paul

From: Dave S via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 7:02:48 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: petemcm...@gmail.com ; Dave S 
Subject: Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

Similar quest here - The Johnson toerail cleat seems to be the go-to and is 
reported to work well in several past conversations on this list.

https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=80333

Have been intending to try but have hesitated simply because of cosmetics, esp 
for the price here in Canada.   Perhaps it looks more in person.  Perhaps I 
should just get it done.  (Lol).  Have also been contemplating fabricating 
something.

Related - Wichard has a toerail padeye - quite elegant but spendy.

https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=125394


Dave - 33-2

http://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/?m=1




Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 10, 2021, at 2:27 AM, Peter McMinn via CnC-List  
wrote:



A question for those of us with aluminum toe rails. I’d like to find a solution 
for midship cleating for docking/departing and springline placement. I’m 
currently securing a line around a stanchion mount, which seems strong, but I’d 
like to find a cleat that mounts to the toe rail. Haven’t seen anything in the 
catalogs. I’m thinking a carabiner or even a soft shackle through a rail hole 
might be a good fix. Given the general opinion that midship cleating is handy, 
I’m curious what you use.

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

I've been using a soft shackle for a few years now.  Haven't seen any
deterioration due to abrasion from the rail.

I used a spring hook for many years but it rubbed the black off the toe
rail.

I tried hooking the spring hook into the soft shackle but it hung down
below the rub rail and rubbed on the topsides paint.

  --
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 1:27 AM Peter McMinn via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> A question for those of us with aluminum toe rails. I’d like to find a
> solution for midship cleating for docking/departing and springline
> placement. I’m currently securing a line around a stanchion mount, which
> seems strong, but I’d like to find a cleat that mounts to the toe rail.
> Haven’t seen anything in the catalogs. I’m thinking a carabiner or even a
> soft shackle through a rail hole might be a good fix. Given the general
> opinion that midship cleating is handy, I’m curious what you use.
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

You don’t even need a soft shackle.  I made a number of dyneema loops and loop 
them through themselves to create loop attachment points at the toenail.  I use 
them for both docking attachment with a carabiner or genoa twing lines with a 
snatch block.  For docking, I added a carabiner to the center of a long line 
and attach that to dyneema loop for front and rear springs.  The loops were 
really easy to make even for a novice splicer like me, but cheap to buy as well 
(https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=1254184).  Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT



> On Mar 10, 2021, at 8:06 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I always thing the holes in the toe rail are sharp enough to saw through a 
> line eventually. I would run my finger around the edges before using a soft 
> shackle.
> Joe
> Coquina
>  
> From: Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List  > 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 7:54 AM
> To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
> Cc: Bruce Whitmore  >
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?
>  
> I really like the idea of a soft shackle.  Easy and cheap to install,  and if 
> you still really want something more permanent, you can always add it.
> 
> Bruce Whitmore
> 1994 C 37/40+
> "Astralis"
> Madeira Beach, FL
> (847) 404-5092
>  
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
>   Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

[Stephen Kidd via CnC-List]

We've been using soft shackles on the toe rail for fenders and a mid-ship
cleat for about three years now. I was curious how they would wear, and
have kept a close eye on them. There has been very minor fraying over time,
even with no chafe protection. They have faded a bit, but otherwise they
are doing well. Of course, this is a 25, so loads are probably pretty
small, but the same toe rail as many of the larger C

Best,
Stephen
C 25 mkII
Washington, DC



On Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 8:06 AM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I always thing the holes in the toe rail are sharp enough to saw through a
> line eventually. I would run my finger around the edges before using a soft
> shackle.
>
> Joe
>
> Coquina
>
>
>
> *From:* Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 10, 2021 7:54 AM
> *To:* Stus-List 
> *Cc:* Bruce Whitmore 
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?
>
>
>
> I really like the idea of a soft shackle.  Easy and cheap to install,  and
> if you still really want something more permanent, you can always add it.
>
> Bruce Whitmore
> 1994 C 37/40+
> "Astralis"
> Madeira Beach, FL
> (847) 404-5092
>
>
>
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

I always thing the holes in the toe rail are sharp enough to saw through a line 
eventually. I would run my finger around the edges before using a soft shackle.
Joe
Coquina

From: Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 7:54 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Bruce Whitmore 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

I really like the idea of a soft shackle.  Easy and cheap to install,  and if 
you still really want something more permanent, you can always add it.
Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+
"Astralis"
Madeira Beach, FL
(847) 404-5092

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

[Gary Newton via CnC-List]

https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=598
This what I use attached behind the lower stays/shrouds on the Genoa track

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 10, 2021, at 2:27 AM, Peter McMinn via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> A question for those of us with aluminum toe rails. I’d like to find a 
> solution for midship cleating for docking/departing and springline placement. 
> I’m currently securing a line around a stanchion mount, which seems strong, 
> but I’d like to find a cleat that mounts to the toe rail. Haven’t seen 
> anything in the catalogs. I’m thinking a carabiner or even a soft shackle 
> through a rail hole might be a good fix. Given the general opinion that 
> midship cleating is handy, I’m curious what you use.
> 
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

[Rod Stright via CnC-List]

We have the Wichard ones (three on each side) fitted for snatch and spinnaker 
blocks and the one fitted amidships works very well for the spinnaker guy 
blocks and also for securing dock lines when back alongside.

 

Safe Sailing,

 

Rod Stright



President

C 99 Class Association

Halifax

Nova Scotia

 

 

 

From: Dave S via CnC-List  
Sent: March-10-21 8:03 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: petemcm...@gmail.com; Dave S 
Subject: Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

 

Similar quest here - The Johnson toerail cleat seems to be the go-to and is 
reported to work well in several past conversations on this list.  

 

https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=80333

 

Have been intending to try but have hesitated simply because of cosmetics, esp 
for the price here in Canada.   Perhaps it looks more in person.  Perhaps I 
should just get it done.  (Lol).  Have also been contemplating fabricating 
something.

 

Related - Wichard has a toerail padeye - quite elegant but spendy.  

 

https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=125394

 

 

Dave - 33-2

 

http://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/?m=1

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone





On Mar 10, 2021, at 2:27 AM, Peter McMinn via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:



A question for those of us with aluminum toe rails. I’d like to find a solution 
for midship cleating for docking/departing and springline placement. I’m 
currently securing a line around a stanchion mount, which seems strong, but I’d 
like to find a cleat that mounts to the toe rail. Haven’t seen anything in the 
catalogs. I’m thinking a carabiner or even a soft shackle through a rail hole 
might be a good fix. Given the general opinion that midship cleating is handy, 
I’m curious what you use.

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

I really like the idea of a soft shackle.  Easy and cheap to install,  and
if you still really want something more permanent, you can always add it.

Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+
"Astralis"
Madeira Beach, FL
(847) 404-5092

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 2:27 AM Peter McMinn via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> A question for those of us with aluminum toe rails. I’d like to find a
> solution for midship cleating for docking/departing and springline
> placement. I’m currently securing a line around a stanchion mount, which
> seems strong, but I’d like to find a cleat that mounts to the toe rail.
> Haven’t seen anything in the catalogs. I’m thinking a carabiner or even a
> soft shackle through a rail hole might be a good fix. Given the general
> opinion that midship cleating is handy, I’m curious what you use.
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

That wouldn’t work for me, with my sail tacked to the genoa it would suck the 
spinnaker halyard around under the forestay.

Joe
Coquina

From: John McLaughlin via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 7:44 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: sailrm...@comcast.net; johnr...@aol.com
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe


Please don't make such a simple thing so complicated.  The inside jibe is 
simple and things don't get tangled up as they tend to with the outside jibe. 
If you have an adjustable tack pull it in to establish a firm  luff.. Head dead 
downwind while adjusting both spin sheets to bring the tack to the forestay.  
Continue to feed the tack through the space between the luff and forestay 
keeping very slight pressure on the old active sheet and rapidly pulling the 
sail through the slot with the new active sheet as the helm is brought through 
the jibe. As the spin fills release all pressure on the old active sheet. In 
doing this the sail and lines are always under control and not flying about and 
becoming tangled.

John McLaughlin


On Tuesday, March 9, 2021 Bob Mann via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Matthew, you probably want to have a short, dedicated gybing tack line.  Attach 
it prior to the gybe (I'm thinking "inside" of pole).  Gybe pole and pre-set 
it, then gybe sail.  When done, remove temporary tack line.

At least that's how I hope it will work.  I've never done it but will find out 
this spring.

Bob Mann
C mk I
On 03/08/2021 2:30 PM Matthew via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:



David:



I believe we discussed this issue not too long ago.  This year 
I plan to use an ATN Tacker for asymm jibes.  Given that we use our spin pole 
for the tack most of the time, the interesting part will be moving the tack 
from the pole to the Tacker (then back to the pole again).



From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2021 10:34 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe



I have been thinking about ordering long sheets for my “reacher" (A sail) to be 
able to do outside jibes.  All the videos I have seen for this technique have 
the spinnaker tack on a sprit or attached forward of the headstay.  That seems 
pretty simple, but I don’t have an attachment point there.  My tack can either 
be attached directly to a padeye on the deck behind the forestay or to a strap 
around the furled headsail and then to the padeye.   I think that means that 
every time I jibe, the tack line will wrap around the headstay.  Is that a 
problem?   I could douse with the sock and redeploy after jibe (sounds slow for 
racing) or add an attachment point to the pulpit for a block so I am forward of 
the headstay.  Am I missing something?  How do others without sprits do this?  
Dave



S/V Aries

1990 C 34+

New London, CT

[cid:image001.png@01D71582.3DAAE260]


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution -- 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
 Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 

 Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe

[John McLaughlin via CnC-List]

Please don't make such a simple thing so complicated.  The inside jibe is 
simple and things don't get tangled up as they tend to with the outside jibe. 
If you have an adjustable tack pull it in to establish a firm  luff.. Head dead 
downwind while adjusting both spin sheets to bring the tack to the forestay.  
Continue to feed the tack through the space between the luff and forestay 
keeping very slight pressure on the old active sheet and rapidly pulling the 
sail through the slot with the new active sheet as the helm is brought through 
the jibe. As the spin fills release all pressure on the old active sheet. In 
doing this the sail and lines are always under control and not flying about and 
becoming tangled.

John McLaughlin
On Tuesday, March 9, 2021 Bob Mann via CnC-List  wrote:
  Matthew, you probably want to have a short, dedicated gybing tack line.  
Attach it prior to the gybe (I'm thinking "inside" of pole).  Gybe pole and 
pre-set it, then gybe sail.  When done, remove temporary tack line.       At 
least that's how I hope it will work.  I've never done it but will find out 
this spring.       Bob Mann   C mk I  
  On 03/08/2021 2:30 PM Matthew via CnC-List  wrote:     
      
David:
 
 
 
    I believe we discussed this issue not too long ago.  This year 
I plan to use an ATN Tacker for asymm jibes.  Given that we use our spin pole 
for the tack most of the time, the interesting part will be moving the tack 
from the pole to the Tacker (then back to the pole again).
 
 
   
From: David Knecht via CnC-List  
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2021 10:34 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Cc: David Knecht 
Subject: Stus-List Asymmetical Spinnaker outside jibe
   
 
 
I have been thinking about ordering long sheets for my “reacher" (A sail) to be 
able to do outside jibes.  All the videos I have seen for this technique have 
the spinnaker tack on a sprit or attached forward of the headstay.  That seems 
pretty simple, but I don’t have an attachment point there.  My tack can either 
be attached directly to a padeye on the deck behind the forestay or to a strap 
around the furled headsail and then to the padeye.   I think that means that 
every time I jibe, the tack line will wrap around the headstay.  Is that a 
problem?   I could douse with the sock and redeploy after jibe (sounds slow for 
racing) or add an attachment point to the pulpit for a block so I am forward of 
the headstay.  Am I missing something?  How do others without sprits do this?  
Dave
  
 

S/V Aries
   
1990 C 34+
   
New London, CT
  


   
 
   Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu 
 Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - StuThanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Do we have anyone near Rockland Maine?

[PETER OCAMPO via CnC-List]

Rockland is about 2 hours from me but I know people in Rockland that might be 
able to tell you about the boat if it is a racer

Contact me off list

Peter
C
Portland me 



Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 10, 2021, at 7:05 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> We might be interested in a boat there.
>  
> Joe
> Coquina
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Do we have anyone near Rockland Maine?

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

We might be interested in a boat there.

Joe
Coquina
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

[Dave S via CnC-List]

Similar quest here - The Johnson toerail cleat seems to be the go-to and is 
reported to work well in several past conversations on this list.  

https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=80333

Have been intending to try but have hesitated simply because of cosmetics, esp 
for the price here in Canada.   Perhaps it looks more in person.  Perhaps I 
should just get it done.  (Lol).  Have also been contemplating fabricating 
something.

Related - Wichard has a toerail padeye - quite elegant but spendy.  

https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=125394


Dave - 33-2

http://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/?m=1




Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 10, 2021, at 2:27 AM, Peter McMinn via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> A question for those of us with aluminum toe rails. I’d like to find a 
> solution for midship cleating for docking/departing and springline placement. 
> I’m currently securing a line around a stanchion mount, which seems strong, 
> but I’d like to find a cleat that mounts to the toe rail. Haven’t seen 
> anything in the catalogs. I’m thinking a carabiner or even a soft shackle 
> through a rail hole might be a good fix. Given the general opinion that 
> midship cleating is handy, I’m curious what you use.
> 
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

Toe rail cleat. Search Binnacle.ca

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 3:27 AM Peter McMinn via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> A question for those of us with aluminum toe rails. I’d like to find a
> solution for midship cleating for docking/departing and springline
> placement. I’m currently securing a line around a stanchion mount, which
> seems strong, but I’d like to find a cleat that mounts to the toe rail.
> Haven’t seen anything in the catalogs. I’m thinking a carabiner or even a
> soft shackle through a rail hole might be a good fix. Given the general
> opinion that midship cleating is handy, I’m curious what you use.
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu

-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

[Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List]

This maybe?

https://www.internationalmarineservice.com/C-Sherman-Johnson-Toe-Rail-Folding-Cleat-p/cs-48-510.htm

They used to make bales that bolted to the rail too. But I can’t seem to find 
then anywhere anymore.   I have 3 on each side.  2 for fenders and 1 between 
the rigging and the head stay that I use for my preventer.

Tom Buscaglia
S/V Alera 
1990 C 37+/40
Vashon WA
P 206.463.9200
C 305.409.3660


> On Mar 9, 2021, at 11:28 PM, Peter McMinn via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> A question for those of us with aluminum toe rails. I’d like to find a 
> solution for midship cleating for docking/departing and springline placement. 
> I’m currently securing a line around a stanchion mount, which seems strong, 
> but I’d like to find a cleat that mounts to the toe rail. Haven’t seen 
> anything in the catalogs. I’m thinking a carabiner or even a soft shackle 
> through a rail hole might be a good fix. Given the general opinion that 
> midship cleating is handy, I’m curious what you use.
> 
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu