Stus-List Re: Bottom Paints Again

[Alan Liles via CnC-List]

Here in Vancouver, my boat guru suggested zinc paint for the prop and shaft. I 
wasn’t too sure but now I’ve seen several yards using it. My prop and shaft 
come out of the water (yearly) without hard growth on them. I’m sold. 

Al Liles
SV Elendil, C 37/40+
Vancouver BC


> On Oct 25, 2021, at 2:37 PM, John and Maryann Read via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Second Petit Prop Paint.  One must be careful with copper based paint on 
> stainless and bronze running gear;
>  
>  
> John and Maryann (dec’d 7/18/2021)
> Legacy III
> 1982 C 34
> Noank, CT
>  
>  
>  
> From: Neil Andersen via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] 
> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 3:52 PM
> To: Stus-List
> Cc: Neil Andersen
> Subject: Stus-List Re: Bottom Paints Again
>  
> I use Petit prop paint with good results 
>  
> Neil Andersen
> 1982 Ca& C 32, FoxFire
> Rock Hall, MD 21661
> From: Dean McNeill via CnC-List 
> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 3:36 PM
> To: Stus-List
> Cc: Dean McNeill
> Subject: Stus-List Re: Bottom Paints Again
>  
> First full season for me with my C 34 and I used Interlux Micron CSC, as 
> that’s what the previous owner ’thought’ was on it when I bought it. A good 
> friend has also used it on his Tartan 3700 for years with good results.
>  
> I used 2 to 3 coats after a light sanding of the previous coat(s) and it has 
> worked very well. Five months moored in the Northwest Arm in Halifax NS and 
> it was surprisingly super clean when it came out at end of season… a little 
> green scum in places but that’s it! Stainless prop shaft was caked with 
> barnacles and growth, so I’m guessing bottom paint worked great where it was 
> applied!
>  
> Does anyone  coat their stainless prop shaft (or brass folding prop) with 
> bottom paint?
>  
> Dean
>  
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Bottom Paints Again

[John and Maryann Read via CnC-List]

Second Petit Prop Paint.  One must be careful with copper based paint on
stainless and bronze running gear;

 

 

John and Maryann (dec'd 7/18/2021)

Legacy III

1982 C 34

Noank, CT

 

 

 

From: Neil Andersen via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] 
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 3:52 PM
To: Stus-List
Cc: Neil Andersen
Subject: Stus-List Re: Bottom Paints Again

 

I use Petit prop paint with good results 

 

Neil Andersen

1982 Ca& C 32, FoxFire

Rock Hall, MD 21661

  _  

From: Dean McNeill via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 3:36 PM
To: Stus-List
Cc: Dean McNeill
Subject: Stus-List Re: Bottom Paints Again 

 

First full season for me with my C 34 and I used Interlux Micron CSC, as
that's what the previous owner 'thought' was on it when I bought it. A good
friend has also used it on his Tartan 3700 for years with good results. 

 

I used 2 to 3 coats after a light sanding of the previous coat(s) and it has
worked very well. Five months moored in the Northwest Arm in Halifax NS and
it was surprisingly super clean when it came out at end of season. a little
green scum in places but that's it! Stainless prop shaft was caked with
barnacles and growth, so I'm guessing bottom paint worked great where it was
applied!

 

Does anyone  coat their stainless prop shaft (or brass folding prop) with
bottom paint?

 

Dean

 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

I know this has veered a bit off the original thread asking about fitment
issues, so I figured I might as well chime in now that we're sufficiently
off course... ;)

My 35-2 came with an old ComNav autopilot which drives a RayMarine wheel
pilot drive, not sure which vintage. The ComNav seems pretty robust (they
make mainly commercial units), but is now ~20 years old. It has a rudder
feedback arm mounted off the quadrant, and is capable of driving a
hydraulic drive up to 20A. Lately the unit will give an error indicating a
rudder feedback error, but I think it may just be complaining about the
belt slippage which occurs whenever I am motoring over 5.5kts or there is
any sea state beyond a light chop, so we rarely use it except for
dropping the main on occasion now. The main weakness seems to be the wheel
drive, as the housing has stress cracks at the sections where the two
halves are joined, and when it skips a tooth, I can see the housing split
apart slightly. Maybe a new housing would fix this, but the noise it makes
while under sail is too annoying for me to use it much anyway.

Our next boat will definitely have a direct drive AP, as per Don's comment
below. I've sailed a newer Dufour with a below deck chain drive AP that
seems to work well and is quiet, so it doesn't necessarily need to be
hydraulic.



--
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
S/V Callisto, 1974 C 35
https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto


On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 11:50 AM Don Marlin via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> My experience is with a C 40. When we first got my boat it had a
> functioning ST4000+ wheel pilot. It was fine motoring and sailing in light
> winds.
> Based on the literature, our boat is technically too heavy for the ST4000+.
>
> My main complaints for the ST4000+ Wheel Pilot:
> 1) it was noisy...and it is not a pleasant noise as load increases. Think
> nails on a chalkboard
> 2) when it got overpowered the AP gave up and simply stopped controlling
> 3) it was erratic but this might be due to compass placement or the fact
> it always seemed behind the boat.
>
...

> *If it was me, anything 35' or larger would automatically be a below deck
> system.*
>
>
>
>
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Bottom Paints Again

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

I have read that a poor man’s Prop Speed is to spray some Zinc Primer on the 
shaft and prop every spring.

Haven’t tried it myself, but I will when my Prop Speed wears away.

 

Bill Coleman

Entrada, Erie, PA

 

 


Subject: Stus-List Re: Bottom Paints Again

 

First full season for me with my C 34 and I used Interlux Micron CSC, as 
that’s what the previous owner ’thought’ was on it when I bought it. A good 
friend has also used it on his Tartan 3700 for years with good results.

 

I used 2 to 3 coats after a light sanding of the previous coat(s) and it has 
worked very well. Five months moored in the Northwest Arm in Halifax NS and it 
was surprisingly super clean when it came out at end of season… a little green 
scum in places but that’s it! Stainless prop shaft was caked with barnacles and 
growth, so I’m guessing bottom paint worked great where it was applied!

 

Does anyone  coat their stainless prop shaft (or brass folding prop) with 
bottom paint?

 

Dean

 

 

On Oct 25, 2021, at 9:17 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
 wrote:

 

Hi Bill- Can you clarify what you used?  I looked at the Pettit site and there 
was nothing called Odyssey Trinidad.  There was an Odyssey Triton?   Dave

 

S/V Aries

1990 C 34+

New London, CT


 





On Oct 23, 2021, at 2:16 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List  
wrote:

 

I know this subject is as old as boats, but I think I commented in the spring 
that I was trying a brand new paint and would report in the fall, so here it 
is.  It is raining and chilly and not much else going on in the NE, so . ..

 

The paint is Pettit Odyssey Trinidad, and when I hauled a week ago the results 
were nothing less than amazing. All of the clubs haul out guys (and girl) were 
in awe, and said it was the cleanest boat the have hauled this year.

 

There was some scum from the bow back amidships and going down a few inches, 
mostly on the north side, oddly enough.  But the rest was amazingly clean. Of 
note, here in the Great Lakes over the last 10 years or so there has been some 
new growth that no one seems to know anything about, looks like a spider web 
growing all over the bottom, and there was NONE of that. No Zebra Mussels, 
nothing.

It is called ablative, but it is nowhere near as ablative as the previous 
year’s paint, very little came off with the pressure washer. Also, it called 
for two initial coats, I only used one. It goes on nice, and what I liked is 
that there is no heavy copper falling out, you don’t seem to need to keep 
stirring it as you go. In fact, I don’t think it has copper as we know it, 
Three Ingredients, Copper Thiocyanate, Econea, and Zinc Pyrithione.   I 
wouldn’t consider it a racing paint, but after a month, I might. One of the 
guys hauled his First 40 out and cleaned it (VC17) for the last race two weeks 
before his final haulout, and his bottom was a mess, complete with ‘spiderwebs’ 
and Zebra Mussels. He was amazed to see how much scum was back on 2 weeks later.

 

I think it’s the Zinc . .  . .Also, a $30 rebate going on.

 

Bill Coleman

Entrada, Erie, PA

 

 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution -- 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Bottom Paints Again

[Don Kern via CnC-List]

Dean,

I use the same paint on my 35 Mk2.  Applied two light coats of CSC with 
a paint sprayer every year (just under a gallon) with the same results 
that you saw.  I do paint the bronze prop shaft and Martec folding 
prop., but get some barnacles on the shaft and some near hub of prop, 
none on the hull.  I also tape out the area where I put the zinc donut. 
Since I do race, I do a light rub of the hull to remove the scum about 
once a month.


Don Kern
/Fireball,/ C Mk2
Bristol, RI




On 10/25/2021 3:36 PM, Dean McNeill via CnC-List wrote:
First full season for me with my C 34 and I used Interlux Micron 
CSC, as that’s what the previous owner ’thought’ was on it when I 
bought it. A good friend has also used it on his Tartan 3700 for years 
with good results.


I used 2 to 3 coats after a light sanding of the previous coat(s) and 
it has worked very well. Five months moored in the Northwest Arm in 
Halifax NS and it was surprisingly super clean when it came out at end 
of season… a little green scum in places but that’s it! Stainless prop 
shaft was caked with barnacles and growth, so I’m guessing bottom 
paint worked great where it was applied!


Does anyone  coat their stainless prop shaft (or brass folding prop) 
with bottom paint?


Dean


On Oct 25, 2021, at 9:17 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
 wrote:


Hi Bill- Can you clarify what you used?  I looked at the Pettit site 
and there was nothing called Odyssey Trinidad.  There was an Odyssey 
Triton?   Dave


S/V Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT



On Oct 23, 2021, at 2:16 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
 wrote:


I know this subject is as old as boats, but I think I commented in 
the spring that I was trying a brand new paint and would report in 
the fall, so here it is.  It is raining and chilly and not much else 
going on in the NE, so . ..
The paint is Pettit Odyssey Trinidad, and when I hauled a week ago 
the results were nothing less than amazing. All of the clubs haul 
out guys (and girl) were in awe, and said it was the cleanest boat 
the have hauled this year.
There was some scum from the bow back amidships and going down a few 
inches, mostly on the north side, oddly enough.  But the rest was 
amazingly clean. Of note, here in the Great Lakes over the last 10 
years or so there has been some new growth that no one seems to know 
anything about, looks like a spider web growing all over the bottom, 
and there was NONE of that. No Zebra Mussels, nothing.
It is called ablative, but it is nowhere near as ablative as the 
previous year’s paint, very little came off with the pressure 
washer. Also, it called for two initial coats, I only used one. It 
goes on nice, and what I liked is that there is no heavy copper 
falling out, you don’t seem to need to keep stirring it as you go. 
In fact, I don’t think it has copper as we know it, Three 
Ingredients, Copper Thiocyanate, Econea, and Zinc Pyrithione.   I 
wouldn’t consider it a racing paint, but after a month, I might. One 
of the guys hauled his First 40 out and cleaned it (VC17) for the 
last race two weeks before his final haulout, and his bottom was a 
mess, complete with ‘spiderwebs’ and Zebra Mussels. He was amazed to 
see how much scum was back on 2 weeks later.

I think it’s the Zinc . .  . .Also, a $30 rebate going on.
Bill Coleman
Entrada, Erie, PA
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to 
help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to 
the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help 
with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the 
list - use PayPal to send contribution -- 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu



Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --https://www.paypal.me/stumurray   Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Bottom Paints Again

[Jeffrey Brideau via CnC-List]

I think I heard Tom Cunliffe say in a video recently that he just uses the
same bottom paint on his shaft and prop as what he puts on the hull.

On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 3:36 PM Dean McNeill via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> First full season for me with my C 34 and I used Interlux Micron CSC, as
> that’s what the previous owner ’thought’ was on it when I bought it. A good
> friend has also used it on his Tartan 3700 for years with good results.
>
> I used 2 to 3 coats after a light sanding of the previous coat(s) and it
> has worked very well. Five months moored in the Northwest Arm in Halifax NS
> and it was surprisingly super clean when it came out at end of season… a
> little green scum in places but that’s it! Stainless prop shaft was caked
> with barnacles and growth, so I’m guessing bottom paint worked great where
> it was applied!
>
> Does anyone  coat their stainless prop shaft (or brass folding prop) with
> bottom paint?
>
> Dean
>
>
> On Oct 25, 2021, at 9:17 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Bill- Can you clarify what you used?  I looked at the Pettit site and
> there was nothing called Odyssey Trinidad.  There was an Odyssey Triton?
> Dave
>
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
>
> 
>
> On Oct 23, 2021, at 2:16 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> I know this subject is as old as boats, but I think I commented in the
> spring that I was trying a brand new paint and would report in the fall, so
> here it is.  It is raining and chilly and not much else going on in the NE,
> so . ..
>
> The paint is Pettit Odyssey Trinidad, and when I hauled a week ago the
> results were nothing less than amazing. All of the clubs haul out guys (and
> girl) were in awe, and said it was the cleanest boat the have hauled this
> year.
>
> There was some scum from the bow back amidships and going down a few
> inches, mostly on the north side, oddly enough.  But the rest was amazingly
> clean. Of note, here in the Great Lakes over the last 10 years or so there
> has been some new growth that no one seems to know anything about, looks
> like a spider web growing all over the bottom, and there was NONE of that.
> No Zebra Mussels, nothing.
> It is called ablative, but it is nowhere near as ablative as the previous
> year’s paint, very little came off with the pressure washer. Also, it
> called for two initial coats, I only used one. It goes on nice, and what I
> liked is that there is no heavy copper falling out, you don’t seem to need
> to keep stirring it as you go. In fact, I don’t think it has copper as we
> know it, Three Ingredients, Copper Thiocyanate, Econea, and Zinc
> Pyrithione.   I wouldn’t consider it a racing paint, but after a month, I
> might. One of the guys hauled his First 40 out and cleaned it (VC17) for
> the last race two weeks before his final haulout, and his bottom was a
> mess, complete with ‘spiderwebs’ and Zebra Mussels. He was amazed to see
> how much scum was back on 2 weeks later.
>
> I think it’s the Zinc . .  . .Also, a $30 rebate going on.
>
> Bill Coleman
> Entrada, Erie, PA
>
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
>
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
>
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Bottom Paints Again

[Neil Andersen via CnC-List]

I use Petit prop paint with good results

Neil Andersen
1982 Ca& C 32, FoxFire
Rock Hall, MD 21661

From: Dean McNeill via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 3:36 PM
To: Stus-List
Cc: Dean McNeill
Subject: Stus-List Re: Bottom Paints Again

First full season for me with my C 34 and I used Interlux Micron CSC, as 
that’s what the previous owner ’thought’ was on it when I bought it. A good 
friend has also used it on his Tartan 3700 for years with good results.

I used 2 to 3 coats after a light sanding of the previous coat(s) and it has 
worked very well. Five months moored in the Northwest Arm in Halifax NS and it 
was surprisingly super clean when it came out at end of season… a little green 
scum in places but that’s it! Stainless prop shaft was caked with barnacles and 
growth, so I’m guessing bottom paint worked great where it was applied!

Does anyone  coat their stainless prop shaft (or brass folding prop) with 
bottom paint?

Dean

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Bottom Paints Again

[Dean McNeill via CnC-List]

First full season for me with my C 34 and I used Interlux Micron CSC, as 
that’s what the previous owner ’thought’ was on it when I bought it. A good 
friend has also used it on his Tartan 3700 for years with good results.

I used 2 to 3 coats after a light sanding of the previous coat(s) and it has 
worked very well. Five months moored in the Northwest Arm in Halifax NS and it 
was surprisingly super clean when it came out at end of season… a little green 
scum in places but that’s it! Stainless prop shaft was caked with barnacles and 
growth, so I’m guessing bottom paint worked great where it was applied!

Does anyone  coat their stainless prop shaft (or brass folding prop) with 
bottom paint?

Dean


> On Oct 25, 2021, at 9:17 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Bill- Can you clarify what you used?  I looked at the Pettit site and 
> there was nothing called Odyssey Trinidad.  There was an Odyssey Triton?   
> Dave
> 
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 23, 2021, at 2:16 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
>> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> I know this subject is as old as boats, but I think I commented in the 
>> spring that I was trying a brand new paint and would report in the fall, so 
>> here it is.  It is raining and chilly and not much else going on in the NE, 
>> so . ..
>>  
>> The paint is Pettit Odyssey Trinidad, and when I hauled a week ago the 
>> results were nothing less than amazing. All of the clubs haul out guys (and 
>> girl) were in awe, and said it was the cleanest boat the have hauled this 
>> year.
>>  
>> There was some scum from the bow back amidships and going down a few inches, 
>> mostly on the north side, oddly enough.  But the rest was amazingly clean. 
>> Of note, here in the Great Lakes over the last 10 years or so there has been 
>> some new growth that no one seems to know anything about, looks like a 
>> spider web growing all over the bottom, and there was NONE of that. No Zebra 
>> Mussels, nothing.
>> It is called ablative, but it is nowhere near as ablative as the previous 
>> year’s paint, very little came off with the pressure washer. Also, it called 
>> for two initial coats, I only used one. It goes on nice, and what I liked is 
>> that there is no heavy copper falling out, you don’t seem to need to keep 
>> stirring it as you go. In fact, I don’t think it has copper as we know it, 
>> Three Ingredients, Copper Thiocyanate, Econea, and Zinc Pyrithione.   I 
>> wouldn’t consider it a racing paint, but after a month, I might. One of the 
>> guys hauled his First 40 out and cleaned it (VC17) for the last race two 
>> weeks before his final haulout, and his bottom was a mess, complete with 
>> ‘spiderwebs’ and Zebra Mussels. He was amazed to see how much scum was back 
>> on 2 weeks later.
>>  
>> I think it’s the Zinc . .  . .Also, a $30 rebate going on.
>>  
>> Bill Coleman
>> Entrada, Erie, PA
>>  
>>  
>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
>> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
>>   Thanks - Stu
> 
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots

[Don Marlin via CnC-List]

My experience is with a C 40. When we first got my boat it had a
functioning ST4000+ wheel pilot. It was fine motoring and sailing in light
winds.
Based on the literature, our boat is technically too heavy for the ST4000+.

My main complaints for the ST4000+ Wheel Pilot:
1) it was noisy...and it is not a pleasant noise as load increases. Think
nails on a chalkboard
2) when it got overpowered the AP gave up and simply stopped controlling
3) it was erratic but this might be due to compass placement or the fact it
always seemed behind the boat.

The PO installation was also missing the rudder feedback sensor as well as
one of the wheel pilot connections to the wheel. The first thing(s) I did
were to add the third wheel mount as well as the rudder feedback. This
helped a little but the AP was still unreliable.
I view the AP as a safety feature so it needs to be reliable.

I decided to upgrade to a below deck AP. I chose to add an Octopus
hydraulic ram. One nice thing about the ST4000+ is it has a clutch output
so in theory it can drive a below deck unit with minimum modifications.

The ST4000+ does not have much current drive capability. I believe it can
supply a max of 5 amps.  Most hydraulic drives require more current so I
added a solid state H-Bridge to interface to the hydraulic pump. This was
about another $100-$150. Finally you need to change the configuration to
enable the rudder feedback and clutch output (set the unit to be an
ST5000+). We now have a very reliable and capable AP.

Looking to the future, the current Raymarine offering has the EV-100,
EV-200, EV-300 etc.
The EV-100 is similar in capability to the ST4000+ BUT it does not have the
ability to drive a clutch. This is critical for any below deck AP. The
EV-200 can drive a clutch BUT is about twice the price of the EV-100. This
is an important distinction because if someone was buying an AP and they
were unsure if the wheel pilot was good enoughthen it is a big gamble.
If the wheel pilot does not work you have to replace a bunch of stuff to
convert your new AP to drive a below deck AP on top of the below deck
actuator.

If it was me, anything 35' or larger would automatically be a below deck
system.


On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 12:31 PM dwight veinot via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Same for my 4000 plus. It needed the rudder sensor to work at all. What a
> PITA installing the rudder sensor was. When the Raymarine 4000 plus works
> well on my boat I can use it to steer the boat straight upwind to hoist the
> mainsail and I can use it while motoring but it seems to adjust too much
> when sailing off the wind so I just don’t use it for that.
>
> On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 8:02 PM Bill Coleman via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> That's what I was wondering about. When I bought my 4000 Plus, the sales
>> guy at defender said I didn't need the rudder feedback unit. But it was
>> pretty worthless and I was very disappointed. Once I put the rudder
>> feedback unit in, it worked brilliantly. The brains need to know where the
>> rudder is otherwise it's just shooting in the dark. I wouldn't want to
>> dissuade you from going to the hydraulic unit, as they are definitely
>> superior. But I think you would be very surprised at how good it would work
>> with the 4000 Plus and a rudder feedback.
>>
>>
>> Bill Coleman
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 4:45 PM Hans Reinhardt via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Bill,
>>> My manual and technical records are  on the boat so I had to google
>>> “rudder feedback arm”. Ete’ does not have a separate one. All feedback
>>> signaling appears to happen via the wheel apparatus and dealt with in the
>>> control head. As arms are readily  available new I would guess that they
>>> are used in more current models. My Autohelm Wheel Pilot is quite old - 20
>>> years? Shortly after I bought the boat in 2015 I looked into replacing the
>>> autopilot. I remember that the latest wheel units were rated for no heavier
>>> a boat. It’s at that point that I realized I would need to spring for and
>>> shoehorn in an under deck unit. An engine replacement and compartment refit
>>> in 2019 put that item off  a couple of years. I hope this helps.
>>>
>>> Hans R
>>> S/V Ete’
>>> 1982 C
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Oct 24, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> Hans, does your 4000 unit have the rudder feedback arm?
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 1:52 PM Hans Reinhardt via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
 Chuck,
 My 1982 C came with the older Autohelm 4000 (Raymarine) autopilot.
 The  unit is supposedly not that different than the latest model you are
 considering. Mine is inadequate downwind even in our relatively protected
 central Puget Sound waters. It is affected by more than wind speed - random
 puffs, wind shifts, crossing wave patterns,  large boat wakes, boat roll,

Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

Dwight,

 

It’s been quite a few years since I got my setup finely polished, but I do 
remember this little tidbit from one of the Raymarine techs that made it work 
better – 

 

Lee Tang of Raymarine told me upon upgrading the 80CRC to change the AUTOPILOT 
setting to 5000  Whl  when I add the rudder sensor. 
This helped a LOT.

 

 

Bill Coleman

Entrada, Erie, PA

 

 

 

From: dwight veinot via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] 
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 12:31 PM
To: Stus-List
Cc: dwight veinot
Subject: Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots

 

Same for my 4000 plus. It needed the rudder sensor to work at all. What a PITA 
installing the rudder sensor was. When the Raymarine 4000 plus works well on my 
boat I can use it to steer the boat straight upwind to hoist the mainsail and I 
can use it while motoring but it seems to adjust too much when sailing off the 
wind so I just don’t use it for that. 

 

On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 8:02 PM Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
 wrote:

That's what I was wondering about. When I bought my 4000 Plus, the sales guy at 
defender said I didn't need the rudder feedback unit. But it was pretty 
worthless and I was very disappointed. Once I put the rudder feedback unit in, 
it worked brilliantly. The brains need to know where the rudder is otherwise 
it's just shooting in the dark. I wouldn't want to  dissuade you from going to 
the hydraulic unit, as they are definitely superior. But I think you would be 
very surprised at how good it would work with the 4000 Plus and a rudder 
feedback.

 

Bill Coleman

 

On Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 4:45 PM Hans Reinhardt via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Bill,

My manual and technical records are  on the boat so I had to google “rudder 
feedback arm”. Ete’ does not have a separate one. All feedback signaling 
appears to happen via the wheel apparatus and dealt with in the control head. 
As arms are readily  available new I would guess that they are used in more 
current models. My Autohelm Wheel Pilot is quite old - 20 years? Shortly after 
I bought the boat in 2015 I looked into replacing the autopilot. I remember 
that the latest wheel units were rated for no heavier a boat. It’s at that 
point that I realized I would need to spring for and shoehorn in an under deck 
unit. An engine replacement and compartment refit in 2019 put that item off  a 
couple of years. I hope this helps. 

 

Hans R

S/V Ete’

1982 C

 

Sent from my iPhone





On Oct 24, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List  
wrote:



Hans, does your 4000 unit have the rudder feedback arm?

Bill

 

On Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 1:52 PM Hans Reinhardt via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Chuck,

My 1982 C came with the older Autohelm 4000 (Raymarine) autopilot. The  
unit is supposedly not that different than the latest model you are 
considering. Mine is inadequate downwind even in our relatively protected 
central Puget Sound waters. It is affected by more than wind speed - random 
puffs, wind shifts, crossing wave patterns,  large boat wakes, boat roll, etc. 
All give it panic attacks  and me the need for a beer once I am safely back on 
the dock.若 As the wind rises to the upper teens the unit is often inadequate 
upwind. As the wind rises further into the twenties I have found the unit to be 
useless. More experienced friends and marine tech sorts are not surprised. 
Fancy that. As my budget allows I plan to install a below deck unit, hydraulic 
or direct drive. That will be a bit of fun. FWIW, at 16-18K lbs. loaded, my 
boat is over the recommended displacement for the Autohelm wheel unit. I 
believe yours is similar. I have had to replace the little SSTL drive pins 
often. I’ve also changed drive belts and otherwise kept the unit well 
maintained and clean. I mostly singlehand and a strong, reliable autopilot is 
critical to my continued use of the boat. I am 70, reasonably fit and grew up 
around smaller boats and stupidly self-endangering marine situations  but am 
no champion or truly experienced old sea dog. 

So … happily not dead yet. 

Twixt and ‘tween is not a generally happy place to be in, so …

All the best,

Hans R

S/V Ete’   1982 C

Shilshole Bay Marina

Seatlle 

 

Sent from my iPhone





On Oct 22, 2021, at 12:13 PM, Don Kern via CnC-List  
wrote:

 Chuck
minor typo!  Fat fingers!! - should have been 20 kts not 29.
Don

On 10/22/2021 2:51 PM, Don Kern via CnC-List wrote:

Chuck

I have a C 35 Mk2 that has the older Raymarine ST4000 autopilot which is 
being used at its upper limits.  It does Ok up to about 20kts on Narra Bay, 
Buzzards Bay and Long Island Sound.  Have never engaged it above 20 kts. The 
only problem I have had is the the three plastic "U" brackets that connect the 
unit to the helms spoke have cracked and needed to be replaced.  I think this 
was due to the Edson pedestal's brake which has become none functional and I 
initially used the Autohelm to lock the rudder when at anchor/mooring.  Not too 
smart!!

Don Kern
Fireball, C Mk2

Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

Same for my 4000 plus. It needed the rudder sensor to work at all. What a
PITA installing the rudder sensor was. When the Raymarine 4000 plus works
well on my boat I can use it to steer the boat straight upwind to hoist the
mainsail and I can use it while motoring but it seems to adjust too much
when sailing off the wind so I just don’t use it for that.

On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 8:02 PM Bill Coleman via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> That's what I was wondering about. When I bought my 4000 Plus, the sales
> guy at defender said I didn't need the rudder feedback unit. But it was
> pretty worthless and I was very disappointed. Once I put the rudder
> feedback unit in, it worked brilliantly. The brains need to know where the
> rudder is otherwise it's just shooting in the dark. I wouldn't want to
> dissuade you from going to the hydraulic unit, as they are definitely
> superior. But I think you would be very surprised at how good it would work
> with the 4000 Plus and a rudder feedback.
>
>
> Bill Coleman
>
> On Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 4:45 PM Hans Reinhardt via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Bill,
>> My manual and technical records are  on the boat so I had to google
>> “rudder feedback arm”. Ete’ does not have a separate one. All feedback
>> signaling appears to happen via the wheel apparatus and dealt with in the
>> control head. As arms are readily  available new I would guess that they
>> are used in more current models. My Autohelm Wheel Pilot is quite old - 20
>> years? Shortly after I bought the boat in 2015 I looked into replacing the
>> autopilot. I remember that the latest wheel units were rated for no heavier
>> a boat. It’s at that point that I realized I would need to spring for and
>> shoehorn in an under deck unit. An engine replacement and compartment refit
>> in 2019 put that item off  a couple of years. I hope this helps.
>>
>> Hans R
>> S/V Ete’
>> 1982 C
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Oct 24, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Hans, does your 4000 unit have the rudder feedback arm?
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 1:52 PM Hans Reinhardt via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Chuck,
>>> My 1982 C came with the older Autohelm 4000 (Raymarine) autopilot.
>>> The  unit is supposedly not that different than the latest model you are
>>> considering. Mine is inadequate downwind even in our relatively protected
>>> central Puget Sound waters. It is affected by more than wind speed - random
>>> puffs, wind shifts, crossing wave patterns,  large boat wakes, boat roll,
>>> etc. All give it panic attacks  and me the need for a beer once I am
>>> safely back on the dock.若 As the wind rises to the upper teens the unit is
>>> often inadequate upwind. As the wind rises further into the twenties I have
>>> found the unit to be useless. More experienced friends and marine tech
>>> sorts are not surprised. Fancy that. As my budget allows I plan to install
>>> a below deck unit, hydraulic or direct drive. That will be a bit of fun.
>>> FWIW, at 16-18K lbs. loaded, my boat is over the recommended displacement
>>> for the Autohelm wheel unit. I believe yours is similar. I have had to
>>> replace the little SSTL drive pins often. I’ve also changed drive belts and
>>> otherwise kept the unit well maintained and clean. I mostly singlehand and
>>> a strong, reliable autopilot is critical to my continued use of the boat. I
>>> am 70, reasonably fit and grew up around smaller boats and stupidly
>>> self-endangering marine situations  but am no champion or truly
>>> experienced old sea dog.
>>> So … happily not dead yet. 
>>> Twixt and ‘tween is not a generally happy place to be in, so …
>>> All the best,
>>> Hans R
>>> S/V Ete’   1982 C
>>> Shilshole Bay Marina
>>> Seatlle
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Oct 22, 2021, at 12:13 PM, Don Kern via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Chuck
>>> minor typo!  Fat fingers!! - should have been 20 kts not 29.
>>> Don
>>>
>>> On 10/22/2021 2:51 PM, Don Kern via CnC-List wrote:
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>> I have a C 35 Mk2 that has the older Raymarine ST4000 autopilot which
>>> is being used at its upper limits.  It does Ok up to about 20kts on Narra
>>> Bay, Buzzards Bay and Long Island Sound.  Have never engaged it above 20
>>> kts. The only problem I have had is the the three plastic "U" brackets that
>>> connect the unit to the helms spoke have cracked and needed to be
>>> replaced.  I think this was due to the Edson pedestal's brake which has
>>> become none functional and I initially used the Autohelm to lock the rudder
>>> when at anchor/mooring.  Not too smart!!
>>>
>>> Don Kern
>>> *Fireball, *C Mk2
>>> Bristol, RI
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/22/2021 12:10 PM, Novabraid via CnC-List wrote:
>>>
>>> I’m contemplating adding a new wheel mount auto pilot (Raymarine EV-100)
>>> on my 1983 Landfall 35, equipped with an Edson 737 dual lever engine
>>> control 

Stus-List Re: Bottom Paints Again

[Matthew via CnC-List]

I would add the following additional information to Bill’s note below.  The 
slip for Bill’s boat is about six slips away from mine.  This past spring my 
West System guru faired a few hull bumps that resulted from prior balsa core 
repairs.  When he was finished, we put two additional coats of Interlux barrier 
coat on for good measure.  After doing so, I learned that the barrier coat is 
incompatible with the bottom paint I purchased without sanding and applying a 
solvent, so I decided to launch the boat without bottom paint and let nature do 
some of the work.  I pulled the boat in August, power-washed a considerable 
amount of vegetative growth that had accumulated (including the spider web kind 
Bill described), and put the boat back in the water.  I hauled the boat for the 
season about three weeks ago, and what a mess!  Not only had the vegetative 
growth returned, but nearly the entire bottom was covered with zebra mussels.  
Power-washing got most of it off, but I have some additional work to do (which 
I needed to do anyway).

 

The bottom line: as confirmed by the condition of my boat at haul out, Bill’s 
bottom paint works very well in freshwater conditions.  

 

From: Bill Coleman via CnC-List  
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2021 2:16 PM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: Bill Coleman 
Subject: Stus-List Bottom Paints Again

 

I know this subject is as old as boats, but I think I commented in the spring 
that I was trying a brand new paint and would report in the fall, so here it 
is.  It is raining and chilly and not much else going on in the NE, so . ..

 

The paint is Pettit Odyssey Trinidad, and when I hauled a week ago the results 
were nothing less than amazing. All of the clubs haul out guys (and girl) were 
in awe, and said it was the cleanest boat the have hauled this year.

 

There was some scum from the bow back amidships and going down a few inches, 
mostly on the north side, oddly enough.  But the rest was amazingly clean. Of 
note, here in the Great Lakes over the last 10 years or so there has been some 
new growth that no one seems to know anything about, looks like a spider web 
growing all over the bottom, and there was NONE of that. No Zebra Mussels, 
nothing.

It is called ablative, but it is nowhere near as ablative as the previous 
year’s paint, very little came off with the pressure washer. Also, it called 
for two initial coats, I only used one. It goes on nice, and what I liked is 
that there is no heavy copper falling out, you don’t seem to need to keep 
stirring it as you go. In fact, I don’t think it has copper as we know it, 
Three Ingredients, Copper Thiocyanate, Econea, and Zinc Pyrithione.   I 
wouldn’t consider it a racing paint, but after a month, I might. One of the 
guys hauled his First 40 out and cleaned it (VC17) for the last race two weeks 
before his final haulout, and his bottom was a mess, complete with ‘spiderwebs’ 
and Zebra Mussels. He was amazed to see how much scum was back on 2 weeks later.

 

I think it’s the Zinc . .  . .Also, a $30 rebate going on.

 

Bill Coleman

Entrada, Erie, PA

 

 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Bottom Paints Again

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

Triton, Trinidad, 220, 221, whatever it takes!

 

Yes, Triton, sorry.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSoORXWLzSA

 

 

Bill Coleman

Entrada, Erie, PA

 

 

From: David Knecht via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] 
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 7:59 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list
Cc: David Knecht
Subject: Stus-List Re: Bottom Paints Again

 

Hi Bill- Can you clarify what you used?  I looked at the Pettit site and there 
was nothing called Odyssey Trinidad.  There was an Odyssey Triton?   Dave

 

S/V Aries

1990 C 34+

New London, CT








On Oct 23, 2021, at 2:16 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List  
wrote:

 

I know this subject is as old as boats, but I think I commented in the spring 
that I was trying a brand new paint and would report in the fall, so here it 
is.  It is raining and chilly and not much else going on in the NE, so . ..

 

The paint is Pettit Odyssey Trinidad, and when I hauled a week ago the results 
were nothing less than amazing. All of the clubs haul out guys (and girl) were 
in awe, and said it was the cleanest boat the have hauled this year.

 

There was some scum from the bow back amidships and going down a few inches, 
mostly on the north side, oddly enough.  But the rest was amazingly clean. Of 
note, here in the Great Lakes over the last 10 years or so there has been some 
new growth that no one seems to know anything about, looks like a spider web 
growing all over the bottom, and there was NONE of that. No Zebra Mussels, 
nothing.

It is called ablative, but it is nowhere near as ablative as the previous 
year’s paint, very little came off with the pressure washer. Also, it called 
for two initial coats, I only used one. It goes on nice, and what I liked is 
that there is no heavy copper falling out, you don’t seem to need to keep 
stirring it as you go. In fact, I don’t think it has copper as we know it, 
Three Ingredients, Copper Thiocyanate, Econea, and Zinc Pyrithione.   I 
wouldn’t consider it a racing paint, but after a month, I might. One of the 
guys hauled his First 40 out and cleaned it (VC17) for the last race two weeks 
before his final haulout, and his bottom was a mess, complete with ‘spiderwebs’ 
and Zebra Mussels. He was amazed to see how much scum was back on 2 weeks later.

 

I think it’s the Zinc . .  . .Also, a $30 rebate going on.

 

Bill Coleman

Entrada, Erie, PA

 

 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution -- 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Bottom Paints Again

[Doug via CnC-List]

I use the Bluewater 47% copperous oxide ablative. I get 4-5 years out of it.in 
puget sound. It will be interesting to see how it holds up in mexico. Doug 
Mountjoy sv Rebecca Leah C & C Landfall 39Port Orchard Yacht Club Port Orchard, 
WA
 Original message From: dwight veinot via CnC-List 
 Date: 10/25/21  06:16  (GMT-08:00) To: Stus-List 
 Cc: dwight veinot  Subject: 
Stus-List Re: Bottom Paints Again I have used Aquaguard the last 2 years. Works 
good here in St. Margaret’s Bay. Applied 1 coat (about 3L) over Petit Horizons. 
On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 9:17 AM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
 wrote:







In contrast, the West Marine store brand is pretty much barnacle food, I think 
they LIKE the paint
☹
 
Joe
Coquina



Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu-- Sent 
from Gmail Mobile
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Bottom Paints Again

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

I have used Aquaguard the last 2 years. Works good here in St. Margaret’s
Bay. Applied 1 coat (about 3L) over Petit Horizons.

On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 9:17 AM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> In contrast, the West Marine store brand is pretty much barnacle food, I
> think they LIKE the paint ☹
>
>
>
> Joe
>
> Coquina
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu

-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Bottom Paints Again

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

In contrast, the West Marine store brand is pretty much barnacle food, I think 
they LIKE the paint ☹

Joe
Coquina
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Bottom Paints Again

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

Hi Bill- Can you clarify what you used?  I looked at the Pettit site and there 
was nothing called Odyssey Trinidad.  There was an Odyssey Triton?   Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT



> On Oct 23, 2021, at 2:16 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I know this subject is as old as boats, but I think I commented in the spring 
> that I was trying a brand new paint and would report in the fall, so here it 
> is.  It is raining and chilly and not much else going on in the NE, so . ..
>  
> The paint is Pettit Odyssey Trinidad, and when I hauled a week ago the 
> results were nothing less than amazing. All of the clubs haul out guys (and 
> girl) were in awe, and said it was the cleanest boat the have hauled this 
> year.
>  
> There was some scum from the bow back amidships and going down a few inches, 
> mostly on the north side, oddly enough.  But the rest was amazingly clean. Of 
> note, here in the Great Lakes over the last 10 years or so there has been 
> some new growth that no one seems to know anything about, looks like a spider 
> web growing all over the bottom, and there was NONE of that. No Zebra 
> Mussels, nothing.
> It is called ablative, but it is nowhere near as ablative as the previous 
> year’s paint, very little came off with the pressure washer. Also, it called 
> for two initial coats, I only used one. It goes on nice, and what I liked is 
> that there is no heavy copper falling out, you don’t seem to need to keep 
> stirring it as you go. In fact, I don’t think it has copper as we know it, 
> Three Ingredients, Copper Thiocyanate, Econea, and Zinc Pyrithione.   I 
> wouldn’t consider it a racing paint, but after a month, I might. One of the 
> guys hauled his First 40 out and cleaned it (VC17) for the last race two 
> weeks before his final haulout, and his bottom was a mess, complete with 
> ‘spiderwebs’ and Zebra Mussels. He was amazed to see how much scum was back 
> on 2 weeks later.
>  
> I think it’s the Zinc . .  . .Also, a $30 rebate going on.
>  
> Bill Coleman
> Entrada, Erie, PA
>  
>  
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
>   Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu