Stus-List Re: Storm damaged marina? Are you liable?

[Edward Levert via CnC-List]

The Municipal Yacht harbor in New Orleans was fully rebuilt after Katrina
with FEMA money. I assume FEMA money does not apply to private marinas. For
the newly rebuilt marina with floating docks able to withstand surge which
would overtop the levees, its management has published a guide to secure
boats for a hurricane. There is no hurricane strength category or removal
requirement. Failure to follow the guidelines, including removing all
canvas, is a cause to terminate one's lease. There are many still in the
marina who take a "why worry because I am insured" attitude about hurricane
prep.

A quick Google search turned up a story about similar claims of a marina
near WIlmington NC caused by Hurricane Issac. New potential claims theories
circulate like wildfire among trial attorneys. So it is not surprising that
Dennis' marina has picked up on this tactic. I am guessing that his marina
was not insured.

It is now common for marina owners to require that the marina be named as
an additional insured. I am not 100% certain but it is likely that this is
only for liability purposes. Your guest slips and falls on the dock. I do
not believe this creates a first party claim for the property damage to the
docks. I cannot answer whether a boat owner has legal liability for damage
to the marina. Was it legally caused by an act of God or did he do or fail
to do something that he should have. This question will be answered by a
court somewhere.

I take pictures of my storm prep as I walk away from the boat. It might be
overkill but I prepare fully for even tropical storms. In 2020 I must have
unrigged 5-6 times. If damage occurs and you can get access, take more
pictures not only of your boat but with the growing threat of marina
claims, to the damage it sustained. In 52 years of boat ownership in New
Orleans, I have lost only one, a C 27, to Hurricane Katrina.

Ed Levert
C 34 Briar Patch
New Orleans, La.









On Fri, Mar 11, 2022 at 9:57 AM Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I may have posted this before but a new development has occurred.
>
> I had Touche' in a marina in Pensacola during Hurricane Sally in September
> 2020.  The boat was in a slip on a floating pier well up Bayou Chico.
> Similarly constructed piers are advertised as being safe for Category 3
> storms.  Although it was properly secured, Touche' sustained moderate
> damage during the storm.
>
> Subsequent to the storm, I, and several other owners of boats moored on
> this pier, received letters from the marina's legal counsel informing us
> that OUR boats had damaged THEIR pier and that we were liable for damages
> in excess of $15,000.  Another marina in the Pensacola area which was
> destroyed has also sent letters advising liability to their tenant
> boatowners.  The new development: another owner informed me that he had
> gotten a letter last week raising the liability to $57,000.  I have not
> received a similar letter.
>
> Based on my personal post-storm inspection of the pier, here's what I
> believe occurred.  The marina allowed a LARGE power catamaran to be moored
> on my pier.  During the storm, this vessel apparently broke loose.  I
> observed the cleats to which I believe the vessel's stern lines were
> attached were missing, having been ripped from the dock.  When it broke
> loose it apparently pulled the main portion of my pier and caused extensive
> structural damage to the pier.  Namely, all the attached finger piers
> became tilted and/or broke loose from the main pier.  Several boats which
> were moored in the slips were damaged as a result.  It is my belief that
> had the catamaran not broken loose, Touche' would have weathered the
> strorm unscathed.
>
> Although this legal action may be a standard procedure in order for the
> marinas to establish contributory/shared liabilities for insurance
> purposes, it can be stressful for boat owners.  My marina required me to
> list them as co-insured so this issue is basically between the marina and
> my insurance provider now.  If I receive another letter, I'll just forward
> it to my insurance provider like I did with the first one.  My insurance
> provider basically told them to pound sand.
>
> Just advising the list.  You might want to contact your insurance
> provider.
>
> --
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> Custom laser engraved cutting boards are available at the C Photo Album
> site.
Custom laser engraved cutting boards are available at the C Photo Album site.

Stus-List Re: Storm damaged marina? Are you liable?

[Charlie Nelson via CnC-List]

A local NC marina (which was destroyed in the storm that went through 
Southport, NC 2 years ago--forgot the name) tried to do something similar to 
its slip-holders. 
The slip-holders were not required by their lease to move their boats if a 
storm was pending and AFAIK, they did not have to pay anything although it did 
either generate a law suit or at least the threat of one. 
I suspect the now restored marina has added something to their new leases to 
require moving boats in the future storm.
FWIW
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom C 36 XLNew Bern, NC


-Original Message-
From: Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: j...@dellabarba.com
Sent: Fri, Mar 11, 2022 11:18 am
Subject: Stus-List Re: Storm damaged marina? Are you liable?

#yiv5404849241 #yiv5404849241 -- _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered 
{}#yiv5404849241 #yiv5404849241 p.yiv5404849241MsoNormal, #yiv5404849241 
li.yiv5404849241MsoNormal, #yiv5404849241 div.yiv5404849241MsoNormal 
{margin:0in;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;}#yiv5404849241 
span.yiv5404849241EmailStyle18 
{font-family:sans-serif;color:windowtext;}#yiv5404849241 
.yiv5404849241MsoChpDefault {font-family:sans-serif;} _filtered 
{}#yiv5404849241 div.yiv5404849241WordSection1 {}#yiv5404849241 _filtered {} 
_filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {} 
_filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {} 
_filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {} 
_filtered {}#yiv5404849241 ol {margin-bottom:0in;}#yiv5404849241 ul 
{margin-bottom:0in;}#yiv5404849241 Really not much for you to worry about 
unless you have bad insurance. I am sure all the various companies will be 
fighting it out for some time to come.When Isabel came around here some marinas 
ordered all the boats to leave and towed the ones that didn’t up various creeks 
and anchored them. It took some time to find them all!I along with about 20 
others got bitched at by our marina for being aboard during the storm, the 
marina was worried about getting sued if we got hurt. Meanwhile we had NO major 
damage at our marina thanks to us adding lines to poorly prepared boats and 
where dock cleats were pulling out.* after Andrew while flying relief supplies 
I found an entire section of floating dock with some boats still tied to it 
someplace out in the Berry Islands, maybe they got sued for stealing the dock!  
Joe Della BarbaCoquina C 35 MK IKent Island MD USA    Custom laser engraved 
cutting boards are available at the C Photo Album site.Custom laser engraved cutting boards are available at the C Photo Album site.

Stus-List Re: Storm damaged marina? Are you liable?

[Doug via CnC-List]

In my YC we have discussed at length the need for all members to have a 
Marine/boat policy. Several members are against this for a couple of reasons. 
1, they are currently have a umbrella policy under their homeowners policy. 2, 
they would have to get a survey on their vessel ( some haven't been surveyed 
for many years). 3, their boats are uninsurable for one reason or another, 
mostly due to age and being wood boats. Several years ago we had a fire that 
took out 6 boats and boathouse, along with sever damage to the dock. The boat 
that caused the fire did not have a "marine policy ". This caused the powers 
that be to take all the liability insurance for the EPA pollution spill/clean 
up moneys. Because of this one couple lost everything and had to give up 
boating. The fire also cost the club $25k in deductible Doug Mountjoy sv 
Rebecca Leah C & C Landfall 39Port Orchard Yacht Club Port Orchard, WA
 Original message From: "Dennis C. via CnC-List" 
 Date: 3/11/22  09:57  (GMT-06:00) To: CnClist 
 Cc: "Dennis C."  Subject: Stus-List 
Storm damaged marina? Are you liable? I may have posted this before but a new 
development has occurred.I had Touche' in a marina in Pensacola during 
Hurricane Sally in September 2020.  The boat was in a slip on a floating pier 
well up Bayou Chico.  Similarly constructed piers are advertised as being safe 
for Category 3 storms.  Although it was properly secured, Touche' sustained 
moderate damage during the storm.Subsequent to the storm, I, and several other 
owners of boats moored on this pier, received letters from the marina's legal 
counsel informing us that OUR boats had damaged THEIR pier and that we were 
liable for damages in excess of $15,000.  Another marina in the Pensacola area 
which was destroyed has also sent letters advising liability to their tenant 
boatowners.  The new development: another owner informed me that he had gotten 
a letter last week raising the liability to $57,000.  I have not received a 
similar letter.Based on my personal post-storm inspection of the pier, here's 
what I believe occurred.  The marina allowed a LARGE power catamaran to be 
moored on my pier.  During the storm, this vessel apparently broke loose.  I 
observed the cleats to which I believe the vessel's stern lines were attached 
were missing, having been ripped from the dock.  When it broke loose it 
apparently pulled the main portion of my pier and caused extensive structural 
damage to the pier.  Namely, all the attached finger piers became tilted and/or 
broke loose from the main pier.  Several boats which were moored in the slips 
were damaged as a result.  It is my belief that had the catamaran not broken 
loose, Touche' would have weathered the strorm unscathed.Although this legal 
action may be a standard procedure in order for the marinas to establish 
contributory/shared liabilities for insurance purposes, it can be stressful for 
boat owners.  My marina required me to list them as co-insured so this issue is 
basically between the marina and my insurance provider now.  If I receive 
another letter, I'll just forward it to my insurance provider like I did with 
the first one.  My insurance provider basically told them to pound sand.Just 
advising the list.  You might want to contact your insurance provider.  
--Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, LA
Custom laser engraved cutting boards are available at the C Photo Album site.

Stus-List Re: Storm damaged marina? Are you liable?

[Neil Gallagher via CnC-List]

Dennis,

Interesting.  My local marine, Safe Harbor (ex Brewers) just last year 
required all boat owner to list the marina as a covered entity on their 
insurance policies to the tune of $500,000 liability coverage.  My 
insurance did that a no cost, but I was kind of wondering how it would 
in actual fact be applied.  Thanks for letting us know.


Neil Gallagher
Weatherly, 35-1
Glen Cove, NY

On 3/11/2022 10:56 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:

I may have posted this before but a new development has occurred.

I had Touche' in a marina in Pensacola during Hurricane Sally in 
September 2020.  The boat was in a slip on a floating pier well up 
Bayou Chico.  Similarly constructed piers are advertised as being safe 
for Category 3 storms. Although it was properly secured, Touche' 
sustained moderate damage during the storm.


Subsequent to the storm, I, and several other owners of boats moored 
on this pier, received letters from the marina's legal counsel 
informing us that OUR boats had damaged THEIR pier and that we were 
liable for damages in excess of $15,000.  Another marina in the 
Pensacola area which was destroyed has also sent letters advising 
liability to their tenant boatowners. The new development: another 
owner informed me that he had gotten a letter last week raising the 
liability to $57,000. I have not received a similar letter.


Based on my personal post-storm inspection of the pier, here's what I 
believe occurred.  The marina allowed a LARGE power catamaran to be 
moored on my pier. During the storm, this vessel apparently broke 
loose.  I observed the cleats to which I believe the vessel's stern 
lines were attached were missing, having been ripped from the dock.  
When it broke loose it apparently pulled the main portion of my pier 
and caused extensive structural damage to the pier.  Namely, all the 
attached finger piers became tilted and/or broke loose from the main 
pier. Several boats which were moored in the slips were damaged as a 
result.  It is my belief that had the catamaran not broken loose, 
Touche' would have weathered the strorm unscathed.


Although this legal action may be a standard procedure in order for 
the marinas to establish contributory/shared liabilities for insurance 
purposes, it can be stressful for boat owners.  My marina required me 
to list them as co-insured so this issue is basically between the 
marina and my insurance provider now.  If I receive another letter, 
I'll just forward it to my insurance provider like I did with the 
first one.  My insurance provider basically told them to pound sand.


Just advising the list.  You might want to contact your insurance 
provider.


--
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA


Custom laser engraved cutting boards are available at the C Photo Album site.


Custom laser engraved cutting boards are available at the C Photo Album site.

Stus-List Re: Storm damaged marina? Are you liable?

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

Really not much for you to worry about unless you have bad insurance. I am sure 
all the various companies will be fighting it out for some time to come.

When Isabel came around here some marinas ordered all the boats to leave and 
towed the ones that didn’t up various creeks and anchored them. It took some 
time to find them all!

I along with about 20 others got bitched at by our marina for being aboard 
during the storm, the marina was worried about getting sued if we got hurt. 
Meanwhile we had NO major damage at our marina thanks to us adding lines to 
poorly prepared boats and where dock cleats were pulling out.

* after Andrew while flying relief supplies I found an entire section of 
floating dock with some boats still tied to it someplace out in the Berry 
Islands, maybe they got sued for stealing the dock!

 

Joe Della Barba

Coquina C 35 MK I

Kent Island MD USA

 

 

Custom laser engraved cutting boards are available at the C Photo Album site.

Stus-List Re: Storm damaged marina? Are you liable?

[Korbey Hunt via CnC-List]

Well, that certainly adds insult to injury

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Dennis C. via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2022 8:57 AM
To: CnClist
Cc: Dennis C.
Subject: Stus-List Storm damaged marina? Are you liable?

I may have posted this before but a new development has occurred.

I had Touche' in a marina in Pensacola during Hurricane Sally in September 
2020.  The boat was in a slip on a floating pier well up Bayou Chico.  
Similarly constructed piers are advertised as being safe for Category 3 storms. 
 Although it was properly secured, Touche' sustained moderate damage during the 
storm.

Subsequent to the storm, I, and several other owners of boats moored on this 
pier, received letters from the marina's legal counsel informing us that OUR 
boats had damaged THEIR pier and that we were liable for damages in excess of 
$15,000.  Another marina in the Pensacola area which was destroyed has also 
sent letters advising liability to their tenant boatowners.  The new 
development: another owner informed me that he had gotten a letter last week 
raising the liability to $57,000.  I have not received a similar letter.

Based on my personal post-storm inspection of the pier, here's what I believe 
occurred.  The marina allowed a LARGE power catamaran to be moored on my pier.  
During the storm, this vessel apparently broke loose.  I observed the cleats to 
which I believe the vessel's stern lines were attached were missing, having 
been ripped from the dock.  When it broke loose it apparently pulled the main 
portion of my pier and caused extensive structural damage to the pier.  Namely, 
all the attached finger piers became tilted and/or broke loose from the main 
pier.  Several boats which were moored in the slips were damaged as a result.  
It is my belief that had the catamaran not broken loose, Touche' would have 
weathered the strorm unscathed.

Although this legal action may be a standard procedure in order for the marinas 
to establish contributory/shared liabilities for insurance purposes, it can be 
stressful for boat owners.  My marina required me to list them as co-insured so 
this issue is basically between the marina and my insurance provider now.  If I 
receive another letter, I'll just forward it to my insurance provider like I 
did with the first one.  My insurance provider basically told them to pound 
sand.

Just advising the list.  You might want to contact your insurance provider.

--
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

Custom laser engraved cutting boards are available at the C Photo Album site.

Stus-List Storm damaged marina? Are you liable?

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

I may have posted this before but a new development has occurred.

I had Touche' in a marina in Pensacola during Hurricane Sally in September
2020.  The boat was in a slip on a floating pier well up Bayou Chico.
Similarly constructed piers are advertised as being safe for Category 3
storms.  Although it was properly secured, Touche' sustained moderate
damage during the storm.

Subsequent to the storm, I, and several other owners of boats moored on
this pier, received letters from the marina's legal counsel informing us
that OUR boats had damaged THEIR pier and that we were liable for damages
in excess of $15,000.  Another marina in the Pensacola area which was
destroyed has also sent letters advising liability to their tenant
boatowners.  The new development: another owner informed me that he had
gotten a letter last week raising the liability to $57,000.  I have not
received a similar letter.

Based on my personal post-storm inspection of the pier, here's what I
believe occurred.  The marina allowed a LARGE power catamaran to be moored
on my pier.  During the storm, this vessel apparently broke loose.  I
observed the cleats to which I believe the vessel's stern lines were
attached were missing, having been ripped from the dock.  When it broke
loose it apparently pulled the main portion of my pier and caused extensive
structural damage to the pier.  Namely, all the attached finger piers
became tilted and/or broke loose from the main pier.  Several boats which
were moored in the slips were damaged as a result.  It is my belief that
had the catamaran not broken loose, Touche' would have weathered the
strorm unscathed.

Although this legal action may be a standard procedure in order for the
marinas to establish contributory/shared liabilities for insurance
purposes, it can be stressful for boat owners.  My marina required me to
list them as co-insured so this issue is basically between the marina and
my insurance provider now.  If I receive another letter, I'll just forward
it to my insurance provider like I did with the first one.  My insurance
provider basically told them to pound sand.

Just advising the list.  You might want to contact your insurance
provider.

--
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
Custom laser engraved cutting boards are available at the C Photo Album site.