Stus-List Please remove me

[David Miles via CnC-List]

Dear Stus list,
Please remove me from the list as I'll be traveling for the next while and it 
fills my inbox too quickly.
Thx very much and thank you for all the effort you put in.

Best regards,
David Miles
mi...@intergate.ca
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Winch Size for C

[Paul Fountain via CnC-List]

Or foredeck cows if you have bee, on the list long enough

Get Outlook for iOS

From: David Risch via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 6:10:39 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: David Risch 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Winch Size for C


Wow…mucho emails about winch servicing.   Almost as popular as what anchor is 
best?





From: cenelson--- via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 8:13 PM
To: Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List 
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Re: Winch Size for C



You can get a winch service kit from Lewmar/Defender/West Marine with grease, 
pawls, springs, etc for a few bucks.



Clean them up, replace any bad springs/pawls, light oil on the pawls, grease 
(from kit) on spindles/teeth (?), reassemble and you will be likely as good as 
new. There are Lewmar assembly diagrams on-line but if you are careful not to 
lose any parts AND take one winch apart at a time so the other is there for a 
guide, and you should be fine. Its one of those dirty jobs but simple enough to 
do. Once you have done one, the next is much faster plus you don't need any 
special tools.



Charlie Nelson

Water Phantom



On Tuesday, September 12, 2023, 07:20:44 PM EDT, Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:





Mike and others who have provided valuable input,



This information on electric is very useful.  I wasn't intending to purchase 
electric in any case due to cost.



I went to boat this afternoon.  Ashamed to say I did not even know what size 
the existing winches are.  They are Lewmar/England 42ST, likely original to 
boat, therefore 42 years old.  From what I am hearing from everyone, a Lewmar 
42ST should be adequate for a C  But man, even in 12 knts wind it takes 
the full strength of two crew to get the last 2 feet in.  I was sensing that 
the winch handle was about to break.



After reading more this afternoon, I am sure the winches are way past due for 
servicing.  Lewmar recommends 2 to 3 times a season!  This may be part, if not 
all, of the problem.  I suspect the winches were disassembled and greased about 
10 to 12 years ago. Before that, who knows.



Is a set of 42 year old winches worth disassembling, cleaning, greasing, and 
reassembling?  Will this result in a significant improvement?  What parts of 
the winch typically need to be replaced and can those Lewmar parts be obtained 
for such an old winch?



Thanks again for all the very helpful advice on winch sizes.



Jeff Laman

1981 C Harmony

Ludington, MI





From: Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 2:43 PM
To: 'Stus-List' mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Hoyt, Mike mailto:mike.h...@impgroup.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Electric Winches - Winch Size for C



Persistence came to us with Electric Lewmar 43ST winches for the primaries.  
There were no secondaries.  For cruising ease the primaries had been located 
where secondaries normally would be and the mounting locations for the original 
primaries were faired and painted over.  The second set of manual Lewmar 43ST 
winches were mounted on the cabin top for use as halyard winches.  THIS WAS WAY 
OVERKILL!



ST43 as halyard winches way larger than necessary.  Jib trimmers facing 
backward to trim genoa was awkward to say the least.  So we moved the cabin top 
Lewmar 43ST back to the original primary location and replaced cabin top 
halyard winches with Lewmar 30ST (Ocean series I believe)



This still left us with electric Lewmar 43 ST.  First of all an electric winch 
can be nasty.  An inexperienced trimmer can damage the headsail using one.  We 
always had the switches turned off and used as a manual winch.  Secondly these 
were AWFUL to maintain.  To service the winches the motor has to be dropped 
from beneath before the drums can come off to clean and lubricate the gears, 
pawls, etc …  Due to this and due to the lack of accessibility from beneath to 
do this these winches were rarely serviced and never properly.  When running 
the spinnaker on these secondaries they were stiff and made spin handling more 
problematic than it should be (due to the lack of east servicing).



In the end we traded these to someone with a pilothouse 44 foot boat for a set 
of new Lewmar 40 ST that are far superior for our purposes.  On top of the ease 
of servicing and better sizing for the boat removing the motors took away a LOT 
of unnecessary weight



Just a story I thought I would share



We are very happy with all of our Lewmar winches BTW



Mike Hoyt

Persistence

Halifax, NS



From: nausetbeach--- via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 3:23 PM
To: 'Stus-List' mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: nausetbe...@optonline.net
Subject: Stus-List Re: Winch Size for C



Some other thoughts: For whatever you decide, believe both WM and Defender 

Stus-List Re: Winch Size for C

[Jim Watts via CnC-List]

Another data point. We replaced the original winches with Lewmar 48ST 16
years ago, and they are barely up to the task in my aging hands. A 12"
winch handle would help a lot...

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC


On Thu, 14 Sept 2023 at 15:11, David Risch via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Wow…mucho emails about winch servicing.   Almost as popular as what anchor
> is best?
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* cenelson--- via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 12, 2023 8:13 PM
> *To:* Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List 
> *Cc:* cenel...@aol.com
> *Subject:* Stus-List Re: Winch Size for C
>
>
>
> You can get a winch service kit from Lewmar/Defender/West Marine with
> grease, pawls, springs, etc for a few bucks.
>
>
>
> Clean them up, replace any bad springs/pawls, light oil on the pawls,
> grease (from kit) on spindles/teeth (?), reassemble and you will be likely
> as good as new. There are Lewmar assembly diagrams on-line but if you are
> careful not to lose any parts AND take one winch apart at a time so the
> other is there for a guide, and you should be fine. Its one of those dirty
> jobs but simple enough to do. Once you have done one, the next is much
> faster plus you don't need any special tools.
>
>
>
> Charlie Nelson
>
> Water Phantom
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 12, 2023, 07:20:44 PM EDT, Jeffrey A. Laman via
> CnC-List  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Mike and others who have provided valuable input,
>
>
>
> This information on electric is very useful.  I wasn't intending to
> purchase electric in any case due to cost.
>
>
>
> I went to boat this afternoon.  Ashamed to say I did not even know what
> size the existing winches are.  They are Lewmar/England 42ST, likely
> original to boat, therefore 42 years old.  From what I am hearing from
> everyone, a Lewmar 42ST should be adequate for a C  But man, even in
> 12 knts wind it takes the full strength of two crew to get the last 2 feet
> in.  I was sensing that the winch handle was about to break.
>
>
>
> After reading more this afternoon, I am sure the winches are way past due
> for servicing.  Lewmar recommends 2 to 3 times a season!  This may be part,
> if not all, of the problem.  I suspect the winches were disassembled and
> greased about 10 to 12 years ago. Before that, who knows.
>
>
>
> Is a set of 42 year old winches worth disassembling, cleaning, greasing,
> and reassembling?  Will this result in a significant improvement?  What
> parts of the winch typically need to be replaced and can those Lewmar parts
> be obtained for such an old winch?
>
>
>
> Thanks again for all the very helpful advice on winch sizes.
>
>
>
> Jeff Laman
>
> 1981 C Harmony
>
> Ludington, MI
>
>
> --
>
> *From:* Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 12, 2023 2:43 PM
> *To:* 'Stus-List' 
> *Cc:* Hoyt, Mike 
> *Subject:* Stus-List Electric Winches - Winch Size for C
>
>
>
> Persistence came to us with Electric Lewmar 43ST winches for the
> primaries.  There were no secondaries.  For cruising ease the primaries had
> been located where secondaries normally would be and the mounting locations
> for the original primaries were faired and painted over.  The second set of
> manual Lewmar 43ST winches were mounted on the cabin top for use as halyard
> winches.  THIS WAS WAY OVERKILL!
>
>
>
> ST43 as halyard winches way larger than necessary.  Jib trimmers facing
> backward to trim genoa was awkward to say the least.  So we moved the cabin
> top Lewmar 43ST back to the original primary location and replaced cabin
> top halyard winches with Lewmar 30ST (Ocean series I believe)
>
>
>
> This still left us with electric Lewmar 43 ST.  First of all an electric
> winch can be nasty.  An inexperienced trimmer can damage the headsail using
> one.  We always had the switches turned off and used as a manual winch.
> Secondly these were AWFUL to maintain.  To service the winches the motor
> has to be dropped from beneath before the drums can come off to clean and
> lubricate the gears, pawls, etc …  Due to this and due to the lack of
> accessibility from beneath to do this these winches were rarely serviced
> and never properly.  When running the spinnaker on these secondaries they
> were stiff and made spin handling more problematic than it should be (due
> to the lack of east servicing).
>
>
>
> In the end we traded these to someone with a pilothouse 44 foot boat for a
> set of new Lewmar 40 ST that are far superior for our purposes.  On top of
> the ease of servicing and better sizing for the boat removing the motors
> took away a LOT of unnecessary weight
>
>
>
> Just a story I thought I would share
>
>
>
> We are very happy with all of our Lewmar winches BTW
>
>
>
> Mike Hoyt
>
> Persistence
>
> Halifax, NS
>
>
>
> *From:* nausetbeach--- via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 12, 2023 3:23 PM
> *To:* 'Stus-List' 
> *Cc:* nausetbe...@optonline.net
> *Subject:* Stus-List Re: Winch Size for C
>
>
>
> Some other thoughts: For whatever 

Stus-List Re: Winch Size for C

[David Risch via CnC-List]

Wow...mucho emails about winch servicing.   Almost as popular as what anchor is 
best?


From: cenelson--- via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 8:13 PM
To: Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List 
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Re: Winch Size for C

You can get a winch service kit from Lewmar/Defender/West Marine with grease, 
pawls, springs, etc for a few bucks.

Clean them up, replace any bad springs/pawls, light oil on the pawls, grease 
(from kit) on spindles/teeth (?), reassemble and you will be likely as good as 
new. There are Lewmar assembly diagrams on-line but if you are careful not to 
lose any parts AND take one winch apart at a time so the other is there for a 
guide, and you should be fine. Its one of those dirty jobs but simple enough to 
do. Once you have done one, the next is much faster plus you don't need any 
special tools.

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom

On Tuesday, September 12, 2023, 07:20:44 PM EDT, Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Mike and others who have provided valuable input,

This information on electric is very useful.  I wasn't intending to purchase 
electric in any case due to cost.

I went to boat this afternoon.  Ashamed to say I did not even know what size 
the existing winches are.  They are Lewmar/England 42ST, likely original to 
boat, therefore 42 years old.  From what I am hearing from everyone, a Lewmar 
42ST should be adequate for a C  But man, even in 12 knts wind it takes 
the full strength of two crew to get the last 2 feet in.  I was sensing that 
the winch handle was about to break.

After reading more this afternoon, I am sure the winches are way past due for 
servicing.  Lewmar recommends 2 to 3 times a season!  This may be part, if not 
all, of the problem.  I suspect the winches were disassembled and greased about 
10 to 12 years ago. Before that, who knows.

Is a set of 42 year old winches worth disassembling, cleaning, greasing, and 
reassembling?  Will this result in a significant improvement?  What parts of 
the winch typically need to be replaced and can those Lewmar parts be obtained 
for such an old winch?

Thanks again for all the very helpful advice on winch sizes.

Jeff Laman
1981 C Harmony
Ludington, MI


From: Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 2:43 PM
To: 'Stus-List' mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Hoyt, Mike mailto:mike.h...@impgroup.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Electric Winches - Winch Size for C


Persistence came to us with Electric Lewmar 43ST winches for the primaries.  
There were no secondaries.  For cruising ease the primaries had been located 
where secondaries normally would be and the mounting locations for the original 
primaries were faired and painted over.  The second set of manual Lewmar 43ST 
winches were mounted on the cabin top for use as halyard winches.  THIS WAS WAY 
OVERKILL!



ST43 as halyard winches way larger than necessary.  Jib trimmers facing 
backward to trim genoa was awkward to say the least.  So we moved the cabin top 
Lewmar 43ST back to the original primary location and replaced cabin top 
halyard winches with Lewmar 30ST (Ocean series I believe)



This still left us with electric Lewmar 43 ST.  First of all an electric winch 
can be nasty.  An inexperienced trimmer can damage the headsail using one.  We 
always had the switches turned off and used as a manual winch.  Secondly these 
were AWFUL to maintain.  To service the winches the motor has to be dropped 
from beneath before the drums can come off to clean and lubricate the gears, 
pawls, etc ...  Due to this and due to the lack of accessibility from beneath 
to do this these winches were rarely serviced and never properly.  When running 
the spinnaker on these secondaries they were stiff and made spin handling more 
problematic than it should be (due to the lack of east servicing).



In the end we traded these to someone with a pilothouse 44 foot boat for a set 
of new Lewmar 40 ST that are far superior for our purposes.  On top of the ease 
of servicing and better sizing for the boat removing the motors took away a LOT 
of unnecessary weight



Just a story I thought I would share



We are very happy with all of our Lewmar winches BTW



Mike Hoyt

Persistence

Halifax, NS



From: nausetbeach--- via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 3:23 PM
To: 'Stus-List' mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: nausetbe...@optonline.net
Subject: Stus-List Re: Winch Size for C



Some other thoughts: For whatever you decide, believe both WM and Defender have 
BOGO days on winches during the year which could help reduce the wallet pain. 
Electric winches are more than a little $ more. Have heard / read good things 
about

Some other thoughts:



For whatever you decide, believe both WM and Defender have BOGO days on winches 
during the year which could help reduce 

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Any thoughts (experience) on trailering?

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

As a young lad we put my Penguin on a trailer and started pulling it down the 
road to the beach. The mast promptly hit the overhead power lines Thank God for 
a wooden mast!
Joe
Coquina

From: Richard Bush via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 10:41 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Karl Kuzis ; Korbey Hunt ; 
Richard Bush 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: Any thoughts (experience) on trailering?

Yes, (chuckle, chuckle) step the mast, otherwise you will end up on one of 
those facebook epic fail pages..wouldn't want to see that!


1985 C 37 CB; Ohio River, (out for repairs)
Richard
Richard N. Bush Law Offices
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220
(502) 584-7255

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Any thoughts (experience) on trailering?

[Neil Andersen via CnC-List]

Many boat movers we have here on the east coast have the types of trailer that 
don’t need a cradle or some “constructed “ rig.  They have trailers with 
hydraulic “arms” that can be brought up to the boat

Neil Andersen, W3NEA
Rock Hall, MD 21661
484-354-8800

From: Korbey Hunt via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 10:36:52 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Karl Kuzis ; Korbey Hunt 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Any thoughts (experience) on trailering?

You will need to step the mast.

Get Outlook for Android

From: Karl Kuzis via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 6:16:33 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Karl Kuzis 
Subject: Stus-List Any thoughts (experience) on trailering?

Looking at Richard's photos from moving his 34cb to the shop got me 
thinking.

Firefly is a C 29 Mk1 with extended keel which is lake locked 3 hrs away. We 
have been considering moving her closer to home, back to the Columbia River. As 
previously mentioned she is due for hull paint (or wrap) as well as bottom 
inspection,  paint etc.

So the choices become hire a boat mover, or obtain a suitable trailer (rental 
or buy). I have plenty of trailer-tow experience just not with a 29ft fixed 
keel sailboat.

The question to the group is: Any insights, experience or thoughts on 29 
trailering?


All comments, stories and discussion welcome!


Karl and Doris Kuzis
Firefly, C 29 Mk1
karl.ku...@gmail.com
Cell (360) 606-2099
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Any thoughts (experience) on trailering?

[Richard Bush via CnC-List]

Yes, (chuckle, chuckle) step the mast, otherwise you will end up on one of 
those facebook epic fail pages..wouldn't want to see that!


1985 C 37 CB; Ohio River, (out for repairs)
Richard
Richard N. Bush Law Offices2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite NineLouisville, 
Kentucky 40220(502) 584-7255
 

On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 10:37:45 AM EDT, Korbey Hunt via 
CnC-List  wrote:  
 
 You will need to step the mast.
Get Outlook for AndroidFrom: Karl Kuzis via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 6:16:33 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Karl Kuzis 
Subject: Stus-List Any thoughts (experience) on trailering? Looking at 
Richard's photos from moving his 34cb to the shop got me thinking.
Firefly is a C 29 Mk1 with extended keel which is lake locked 3 hrs away. We 
have been considering moving her closer to home, back to the Columbia River. As 
previously mentioned she is due for hull paint (or wrap) as well as bottom 
inspection,  paint etc.
So the choices become hire a boat mover, or obtain a suitable trailer (rental 
or buy). I have plenty of trailer-tow experience just not with a 29ft fixed 
keel sailboat. 
The question to the group is: Any insights, experience or thoughts on 29 
trailering? 

All comments, stories and discussion welcome! 

Karl and Doris Kuzis Firefly, C 29 mk1karl.ku...@gmail.com Cell (360) 
606-2099Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site 
and help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu  Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Any thoughts (experience) on trailering?

[Korbey Hunt via CnC-List]

You will need to step the mast.

Get Outlook for Android

From: Karl Kuzis via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 6:16:33 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Karl Kuzis 
Subject: Stus-List Any thoughts (experience) on trailering?

Looking at Richard's photos from moving his 34cb to the shop got me 
thinking.

Firefly is a C 29 Mk1 with extended keel which is lake locked 3 hrs away. We 
have been considering moving her closer to home, back to the Columbia River. As 
previously mentioned she is due for hull paint (or wrap) as well as bottom 
inspection,  paint etc.

So the choices become hire a boat mover, or obtain a suitable trailer (rental 
or buy). I have plenty of trailer-tow experience just not with a 29ft fixed 
keel sailboat.

The question to the group is: Any insights, experience or thoughts on 29 
trailering?


All comments, stories and discussion welcome!


Karl and Doris Kuzis
Firefly, C 29 Mk1
karl.ku...@gmail.com
Cell (360) 606-2099
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu