Re: Stus-List To Rod Stright

[Greg Sutherland via CnC-List]

I did Mike.
Greg

On Oct 22, 2017, at 1:20 PM, Persuasion37 via CnC-List 
> wrote:

Did everyone get this email.

Mike
PERSUASION
C 37 K/CB
Long Sault

On Oct 22, 2017, at 10:33 AM, Stu via CnC-List 
> wrote:

Your email address bounced 2 messages from me.  Do you have another address?

Stu


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Re: Stus-List 33 mk2 Mast step loads

[Greg Sutherland via CnC-List]

Hey Russ,

The sika has amazing freeze thaw properties and the reason I began looking 
outside of the standard epoxies or resins was due to my general lack of 
knowledge and also a bit concerned with the depth of material needed, and the 
heat generated while kicking off and curing. I was surprised when Dave went in 
that direction because I was under the impression the boat would catch fire or 
in the very least the end result would be brittle. After reading his process 
last night I think his success was using less catalyst but it's all foreign to 
me so I have no clue. (Awesome job btw)
After a bit of thought, would it really matter if I left that area open and not 
fill the entire cavity? If I have a substantial compression post that is held 
fast around the forward keel bolt to keep it in position, couldn't it be open 
like the bilge on the other side? As long as the top of the area is secured and 
glassed back into the structure around the keelbolts with the steel plates I 
think it should be fine. I also contemplated drilling limber holes from that 
cavity into the bilge so that if and when water gets in, it would also drain 
out.

On Jun 28, 2017, at 9:36 AM, Russ & Melody via CnC-List 
> wrote:


Hi Greg,

If you want to spend extra... we used Pilgrim Magmaflow epoxy grout under the 
frame of the turbogenerater. Excellent flow characteristics if there is an 
awkward cavity to reach. It might be better than traditional grouts during 
freeze cycles if there is water present.

A little over done for the job perhaps but you will smile.

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1

At 04:38 AM 28/06/2017, you wrote:
Content-Language: en-CA
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 
boundary="_000_BY2PR02MB458EF9750B90832967E2CBFB1DD0BY2PR02MB458namprd_"

I'm loving your input gentleman,

I agree completely. I come from a construction background so plan on using a 
cement type of mortar used for anchoring large industrial equipment. Once fully 
cured it has a load rating of 8100 lbs/sq in, doesn't shrink and is unaffected 
by water. I was certain the loads wouldn't exceed that but wanted to make sure. 
 My plan going forward once excavated was to pour 4-5 " of the mortar to level 
up the base and then fabricate a steel post with a bottom and top plate with a 
hole for the forward keel bolt to hold everything in place and then glass in 
the top. I was tempted to just fill the entire cavity with the mortar and move 
on but thought the compression post was a better plan.until I read what 
your father said. Maybe he's right, top it up and call it a day.

The mortar I plan to use is called Sikagrout 212 but states that after 6" of 
depth you need an aggregate filler. Maybe something with less weight could be 
used to retain strength in the grout and filling the cavity would definitely be 
the way to go.
Thought?

Greg


On Jun 28, 2017, at 7:35 AM, Dave S via CnC-List 
> wrote:

Greg - agreed with Russ (and Joe.)  When I did mine I briefly went down the 
calculation rabbit hole, looking at the properties of materials etc and I 
realized there was no way for me to calculate the hypothetical combined load of 
keel bolt torque, mast/rig, and one bolt's worth of bashing a rock at 4kts.   
My brain elected to look at the original construction and make it stronger 
(compression posts, epoxy, carbon fibre) and move on to other projects.   I 
used glass and carbon fibre (recommended by the local composites purveyor) 
instead of AL as others have done, but,  same idea.   My dad (builder of many 
boats- now in NS) suggested concrete as fill and he was probably right.

Dave



-- Forwarded message --
From: "Russ & Melody" >
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc:
Bcc:
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 21:52:15 -0700
Subject: Re: Stus-List 33 mk2 Mast step loads

Hi Dave,

Watch those units.
4000 PSI on a 6" x 8" mast step plane is out of this world for a 33 foot boat.
When I did the mast loading while designing the rig of my old 60' cruiser it 
was 100,000 lbs and he's telling you it's twice that??

I would go with Joe's suggestion of 1/2" aluminum plate and move on to other 
projects.

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1

At 08:24 AM 27/06/2017, you wrote:
Content-Language: en-CA
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 
boundary="_000_BY2PR02MB458E0206231C27457085F24B1DC0BY2PR02MB458namprd_"

Thanks everyone for the info. I spoke with Danny from Klacko spars yesterday 
and he's certain that he would have installed my original mast in '87. He 
figures even when falling into a wave with full sails the forces wouldn't 
exceed 4000 psi. Seems light to me but who am I to argue with him.
I thought I notice Mr. Knowles at the club on the weekend so I'll definitely 
run it past him - thanks for mentioning that.

I have the 

Re: Stus-List 33 mk2 Mast step loads

[Greg Sutherland via CnC-List]

I'm loving your input gentleman,

I agree completely. I come from a construction background so plan on using a 
cement type of mortar used for anchoring large industrial equipment. Once fully 
cured it has a load rating of 8100 lbs/sq in, doesn't shrink and is unaffected 
by water. I was certain the loads wouldn't exceed that but wanted to make sure. 
 My plan going forward once excavated was to pour 4-5 " of the mortar to level 
up the base and then fabricate a steel post with a bottom and top plate with a 
hole for the forward keel bolt to hold everything in place and then glass in 
the top. I was tempted to just fill the entire cavity with the mortar and move 
on but thought the compression post was a better plan.until I read what 
your father said. Maybe he's right, top it up and call it a day.

The mortar I plan to use is called Sikagrout 212 but states that after 6" of 
depth you need an aggregate filler. Maybe something with less weight could be 
used to retain strength in the grout and filling the cavity would definitely be 
the way to go.
Thought?

Greg


On Jun 28, 2017, at 7:35 AM, Dave S via CnC-List 
> wrote:

Greg - agreed with Russ (and Joe.)  When I did mine I briefly went down the 
calculation rabbit hole, looking at the properties of materials etc and I 
realized there was no way for me to calculate the hypothetical combined load of 
keel bolt torque, mast/rig, and one bolt's worth of bashing a rock at 4kts.   
My brain elected to look at the original construction and make it stronger 
(compression posts, epoxy, carbon fibre) and move on to other projects.   I 
used glass and carbon fibre (recommended by the local composites purveyor) 
instead of AL as others have done, but,  same idea.   My dad (builder of many 
boats- now in NS) suggested concrete as fill and he was probably right.

Dave



-- Forwarded message --
From: "Russ & Melody" >
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc:
Bcc:
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 21:52:15 -0700
Subject: Re: Stus-List 33 mk2 Mast step loads

Hi Dave,

Watch those units.
4000 PSI on a 6" x 8" mast step plane is out of this world for a 33 foot boat.
When I did the mast loading while designing the rig of my old 60' cruiser it 
was 100,000 lbs and he's telling you it's twice that??

I would go with Joe's suggestion of 1/2" aluminum plate and move on to other 
projects.

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1

At 08:24 AM 27/06/2017, you wrote:
Content-Language: en-CA
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 
boundary="_000_BY2PR02MB458E0206231C27457085F24B1DC0BY2PR02MB458namprd_"

Thanks everyone for the info. I spoke with Danny from Klacko spars yesterday 
and he's certain that he would have installed my original mast in '87. He 
figures even when falling into a wave with full sails the forces wouldn't 
exceed 4000 psi. Seems light to me but who am I to argue with him.
I thought I notice Mr. Knowles at the club on the weekend so I'll definitely 
run it past him - thanks for mentioning that.

I have the entire mast step "excavated" to the keel and am starting the 
rebuild. Can't wait for this one to be finished!

Thanks!
Greg
33 mk2
Halifax

On Jun 27, 2017, at 10:52 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
> wrote:

I used a total of ½†  aluminum on mine when I rebuilt it. It looks about 20 
times stronger than the original was too.

Joe
Coquina
CC 35 MK I
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Re: Stus-List 33 mk2 Mast step loads

[Greg Sutherland via CnC-List]

Impressive work documenting your jobs Randy and Dave, thanks for sharing. Mine 
is the same as Dave's and I'm close to rebuilding now. Dave I may contact you 
off list for some questions as I continue if that's okay.

Greg

On Jun 27, 2017, at 1:12 PM, RANDY 
<randy.staff...@comcast.net<mailto:randy.staff...@comcast.net>> wrote:

Greg I don't know if you've already seen my write-up of my mast step rebuild 
project on my 30-1 this spring, but in case it's of any help to you, here it 
is: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTUlhmbUs4YTZlZnM

Cheers,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO


From: "Greg Sutherland via CnC-List" 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
To: "cnc-list" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: "Greg Sutherland" 
<bluenosesail...@hotmail.com<mailto:bluenosesail...@hotmail.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 9:24:27 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List 33 mk2 Mast step loads


Thanks everyone for the info. I spoke with Danny from Klacko spars yesterday 
and he's certain that he would have installed my original mast in '87. He 
figures even when falling into a wave with full sails the forces wouldn't 
exceed 4000 psi. Seems light to me but who am I to argue with him.
I thought I notice Mr. Knowles at the club on the weekend so I'll definitely 
run it past him - thanks for mentioning that.

I have the entire mast step "excavated" to the keel and am starting the 
rebuild. Can't wait for this one to be finished!

Thanks!
Greg
33 mk2
Halifax

On Jun 27, 2017, at 10:52 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

I used a total of ½”  aluminum on mine when I rebuilt it. It looks about 20 
times stronger than the original was too.

Joe
Coquina
CC 35 MK I


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Russ & 
Melody via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 9:18 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Russ & Melody <russ...@telus.net<mailto:russ...@telus.net>>
Subject: Re: Stus-List 33 mk2 Mast step loads


Hi Greg,

You can research the righting moment, at say 30 - 33 degrees, for various boats 
in your size range for a second opinion. The 33-2 is similar in stability to my 
35 mk-1(check diagram in the Technical Info on Stu's CNC site).

I put the load at about 10,000 lbs, so building for 12 - 15,000 lbs is not a 
unreasonable. If you're going with aluminum only then I would spec it at 20,000 
for a 50% corrosion allowance and say, "I expect this to last another 20 years."

BTW, check with Rich Knowles on my credentials, if in doubt. :)

Hi Rich, we miss you on the Left Coast.

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1

At 03:15 AM 26/06/2017, you wrote:

Does anyone know what the maximum load would be on the mast step of the 33? I'm 
trying to figure out the psi force for a rebuild
Thanks!

Greg
33-2
Halifax
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

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This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
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This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List 33 mk2 Mast step loads

[Greg Sutherland via CnC-List]

Thanks everyone for the info. I spoke with Danny from Klacko spars yesterday 
and he's certain that he would have installed my original mast in '87. He 
figures even when falling into a wave with full sails the forces wouldn't 
exceed 4000 psi. Seems light to me but who am I to argue with him.
I thought I notice Mr. Knowles at the club on the weekend so I'll definitely 
run it past him - thanks for mentioning that.

I have the entire mast step "excavated" to the keel and am starting the 
rebuild. Can't wait for this one to be finished!

Thanks!
Greg
33 mk2
Halifax

On Jun 27, 2017, at 10:52 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
> wrote:

I used a total of ½”  aluminum on mine when I rebuilt it. It looks about 20 
times stronger than the original was too.

Joe
Coquina
CC 35 MK I


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Russ & 
Melody via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 9:18 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Russ & Melody >
Subject: Re: Stus-List 33 mk2 Mast step loads


Hi Greg,

You can research the righting moment, at say 30 - 33 degrees, for various boats 
in your size range for a second opinion. The 33-2 is similar in stability to my 
35 mk-1(check diagram in the Technical Info on Stu's CNC site).

I put the load at about 10,000 lbs, so building for 12 - 15,000 lbs is not a 
unreasonable. If you're going with aluminum only then I would spec it at 20,000 
for a 50% corrosion allowance and say, "I expect this to last another 20 years."

BTW, check with Rich Knowles on my credentials, if in doubt. :)

Hi Rich, we miss you on the Left Coast.

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1

At 03:15 AM 26/06/2017, you wrote:

Does anyone know what the maximum load would be on the mast step of the 33? I'm 
trying to figure out the psi force for a rebuild
Thanks!

Greg
33-2
Halifax
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Stus-List 33 mk2 Mast step loads

[Greg Sutherland via CnC-List]

Does anyone know what the maximum load would be on the mast step of the 33? I'm 
trying to figure out the psi force for a rebuild
Thanks!

Greg
33-2 
Halifax
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Re: Stus-List Boat Handling Skill

[Greg Sutherland via CnC-List]

Sent from my Samsung device over Bell's LTE network.


 Original message 
From: Paul Fountain via CnC-List 
Date: 10-28-2016 11:14 AM (GMT-04:00)
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Paul Fountain 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Boat Handling Skill

We have these on Perception our 33-II, and my sister on her 30. Would not be 
with out them.

Get Outlook for iOS

_
From: Neil Gallagher via CnC-List 
>
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Boat Handling Skill
To: >
Cc: Neil Gallagher >


http://www.csjohnson.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info_id=23

This conversation got me thinking the same thing, I need one of these.

Neil Gallagher
Weatherly, 35-1
Glen Cove, NY


On 10/27/2016 9:18 PM, Graham Young via CnC-List wrote:
I was recently thinking of adding a mid-ship cleat to my C for just this 
purpose, but did not like the idea of putting it through the deck.  Was 
recently aboard an old S2 that has a slotted toe rail a lot like C's.  The 
owner had added a mid-ship cleat with a sideways, U-shaped flanged base (if you 
can imagine it from that description) that was bolted through the toerail.  Had 
never seen a cleat with that kind of base before.  It seemed like a nice 
solution.

Graham Young
S/V Spellbound
1981 C 32


On Thursday, October 27, 2016 8:51 PM, Stevan Plavsa via 
CnC-List wrote:


Mid ship cleat? What's that?!!

You guys don't actually sail C, do you?!!

(I use the primary winch as a spring. Not quite "mid ship" but works almost as 
well for snugging up to the dock)

Steve
Suhana, C 32
Toronto



On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 8:32 PM, Rick Brass via 
CnC-List> wrote:
"Short spring from amidships" is more properly called a breast line. And that 
is ALWAYS the first line over when I bring the 72' schooner I captain into a 
dock (or a slip).

The fact that you know and use the process indicates to me that you are a 
competent skipper, Joe.

I am often amused - and occasionally terrified - to watch the captains - even 
experienced captains of larger boats - who just seem to insist on approaching 
the dock from 45 to 90 degrees, and then getting a bow line over.

I've tried to explain the process to I-don't-know-how-many small boat skippers 
over the past 4 years, but they just don't seem to grasp that once the breast 
line is attached to the dock (or a piling), you can use power to pull the boat 
snug to the dock and set fore and aft springs to position the boat, and power 
against the springs to pull the bow and stern in against any combination of 
wind and current.

Rick Brass


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-bounces@cnc- 
list.com] On Behalf Of Della Barba, Joe 
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 4:52 PM
To: 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com' 
>
Cc: Della Barba, Joe >
Subject: Re: Stus-List Boat Handling Skill

Use a short spring from amidships. You can hold the boat on with forward or 
reverse as needed.
I use this with great effect when parallel parking singlehanded.
Joe
Coquina



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stumurray

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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!





___This list is supported by the 
generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset 
our costs, please go to:  https://www.paypal.me/stumurrayAll Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!



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Re: Stus-List Mast slot piece

[Greg Sutherland via CnC-List]

Hey everyone, thanks very much for the replys! I was away for the past few days 
and just going through them now. I did actually go to Rod's and they have a $65 
minimum and that's where I ended before posting here. I bought a little piece 
of stainless to try and fabricate one. I don't think it will be very difficult. 
Although now I'll have to check my cockpit, thanks Mike, and see if that fits 
the bill. Mike I'll let you know.
 
Thanks again everyone.
 
GregSiesta 87' 33 mk2Halifax, Nova Scotia
 
From: mike.h...@impgroup.com
To: bluenosesail...@hotmail.com
Subject: Mast slot piece
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 13:44:22 +







‎Greg



Found an extra from our j27. It seems about the same size as the one on our 33. 
I put it in the cockpit of your boat



Mike 



Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Rogers network.
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