Re: Stus-List Rudder replacement/repair

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Check with PYI if you are rudder shopping.  They have Jefa rudders
available.

http://www.pyiinc.com/

Joel

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 10:16 AM, Patrick Davin via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Gene's question is timely since the reason I'm trying to drop my rudder
> now is to fix the leaking. I observed weeping at last year's haul-out,
> drilled drainage holes, and got about 1/2 cup of reddish rusty smelly
> water.
>
> My Vancouver surveyor told me water in rudders of old boats is very
> common, and he didn't seem too concerned with it. Said to drop the rudder
> at next haul-out to dremel around where the stock enters the top of the
> rudder and then epoxy that up with Gflex or something similar. The water
> usually gets in from the stock entry since the stresses end up cracking the
> fiberglass there.
>
> At the yard this week we drilled two 2" hole saw holes. One low, where
> tapping revealed a void - that one showed some water is traveling through
> the void, and wetting the outer edge of foam, but not traveling through the
> closed cell foam - the foam looked pretty good. The other hole was higher,
> near the stock. No water found at this one, and no void, but we were able
> to see the stock and plate. The welds look good and the stock has only
> minor rust marks. The plate is brownish/black, but the yard manager said
> that's probably a lower grade of stainless used.
>
> I don't think the LF38 has 3 "fingers" coming out from the stock like the
> 37+ does, I think it's one contiguous plate. Since the yard manager thought
> the rudder looks pretty good, our plan is to drop it to dry it out a bit
> more and then seal it up to try to stop the water ingress - and having the
> rudder dropped will make the fiberglass repairs of the hole saw holes +
> void easier.
>
> Foss Foam will make new rudders for about $5k (for this size), in about 4
> weeks time, shipped from FL. A rebuild costs about almost that much. If you
> wanted to do a rudder replacement it'd also be worth checking with
> Southshore Yachts because they list some C rudders (with 4 week wait time
> - I wonder if they're just contracting with Foss to make a template/design
> they have).
>
> A guy next to me in the boatyard with an older full keel, skeg protected
> rudder is replacing his rudder with a Foss because his rudder was a mess -
> the fiberglass skin cracked in multiple places and a prior owner tried to
> fix it by fiberglassing over, but didn't grind back all the gelcoat and
> fiberglassed over gelcoat in places.
>
> -Patrick
> 1984 C Landfall 38
> Seattle, WA
>
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 5:23 AM, <cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> -- Forwarded message --
>> From: David Knecht <davidakne...@gmail.com>
>> To: CnC CnC discussion list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
>> Cc:
>> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 08:22:58 -0400
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder replacement/repair
>> Water in the rudder seems to be really common. My rudder was rebuilt
>> before I bought the boat.  I think surveyors tend to overdo this as my
>> metal also looked fine once the rudder was opened up.  I am curious about
>> the foam in Josh’s pictures.  I would have thought it would keep water from
>> accumulating inside if it was closed cell foam.  Was it actually wet?
>> Also, I discovered last weekend that when my was rebuilt, they did not fill
>> the interior with foam because we saw water weeping out of the trailing
>> edge and when we drilled into the middle, a large stream of water drained
>> out for about 15 minutes.  I am going to have the yard open a hole and fill
>> the interior with foam.  The alternative to foam would be to drill a small
>> hole every fall and drain it, then plug.Thoughts?  Dave
>>
>> Aries
>> 1990 C 34+
>> New London, CT
>>
>
>
>
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>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Rudder replacement/repair

[Patrick Davin via CnC-List]

Gene's question is timely since the reason I'm trying to drop my rudder now
is to fix the leaking. I observed weeping at last year's haul-out, drilled
drainage holes, and got about 1/2 cup of reddish rusty smelly water.

My Vancouver surveyor told me water in rudders of old boats is very common,
and he didn't seem too concerned with it. Said to drop the rudder at next
haul-out to dremel around where the stock enters the top of the rudder and
then epoxy that up with Gflex or something similar. The water usually gets
in from the stock entry since the stresses end up cracking the fiberglass
there.

At the yard this week we drilled two 2" hole saw holes. One low, where
tapping revealed a void - that one showed some water is traveling through
the void, and wetting the outer edge of foam, but not traveling through the
closed cell foam - the foam looked pretty good. The other hole was higher,
near the stock. No water found at this one, and no void, but we were able
to see the stock and plate. The welds look good and the stock has only
minor rust marks. The plate is brownish/black, but the yard manager said
that's probably a lower grade of stainless used.

I don't think the LF38 has 3 "fingers" coming out from the stock like the
37+ does, I think it's one contiguous plate. Since the yard manager thought
the rudder looks pretty good, our plan is to drop it to dry it out a bit
more and then seal it up to try to stop the water ingress - and having the
rudder dropped will make the fiberglass repairs of the hole saw holes +
void easier.

Foss Foam will make new rudders for about $5k (for this size), in about 4
weeks time, shipped from FL. A rebuild costs about almost that much. If you
wanted to do a rudder replacement it'd also be worth checking with
Southshore Yachts because they list some C rudders (with 4 week wait time
- I wonder if they're just contracting with Foss to make a template/design
they have).

A guy next to me in the boatyard with an older full keel, skeg protected
rudder is replacing his rudder with a Foss because his rudder was a mess -
the fiberglass skin cracked in multiple places and a prior owner tried to
fix it by fiberglassing over, but didn't grind back all the gelcoat and
fiberglassed over gelcoat in places.

-Patrick
1984 C Landfall 38
Seattle, WA

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 5:23 AM, <cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: David Knecht <davidakne...@gmail.com>
> To: CnC CnC discussion list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> Cc:
> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 08:22:58 -0400
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder replacement/repair
> Water in the rudder seems to be really common. My rudder was rebuilt
> before I bought the boat.  I think surveyors tend to overdo this as my
> metal also looked fine once the rudder was opened up.  I am curious about
> the foam in Josh’s pictures.  I would have thought it would keep water from
> accumulating inside if it was closed cell foam.  Was it actually wet?
> Also, I discovered last weekend that when my was rebuilt, they did not fill
> the interior with foam because we saw water weeping out of the trailing
> edge and when we drilled into the middle, a large stream of water drained
> out for about 15 minutes.  I am going to have the yard open a hole and fill
> the interior with foam.  The alternative to foam would be to drill a small
> hole every fall and drain it, then plug.Thoughts?  Dave
>
> Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
>
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Re: Stus-List Rudder replacement/repair

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

Water in the rudder seems to be really common. My rudder was rebuilt before I 
bought the boat.  I think surveyors tend to overdo this as my metal also looked 
fine once the rudder was opened up.  I am curious about the foam in Josh’s 
pictures.  I would have thought it would keep water from accumulating inside if 
it was closed cell foam.  Was it actually wet?  Also, I discovered last weekend 
that when my was rebuilt, they did not fill the interior with foam because we 
saw water weeping out of the trailing edge and when we drilled into the middle, 
a large stream of water drained out for about 15 minutes.  I am going to have 
the yard open a hole and fill the interior with foam.  The alternative to foam 
would be to drill a small hole every fall and drain it, then plug.Thoughts? 
 Dave

Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT



> On Apr 19, 2016, at 9:41 PM, John Pennie via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Great shots and very educational Josh - thanks for sharing.  Metal looked to 
> be in remarkably good shape.
> 
> John
> 
>> On Apr 19, 2016, at 9:08 PM, Rick Rohwer via CnC-List > > wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks for sharing the pictures Joh!  Very interesting.
>> 
>> Rick
>> Paikea 37+
>> Poulsbo, WA
>> 
>>> On Apr 18, 2016, at 9:17 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>>> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> My rebuild was ~$5k.  Seeing what the professionals do was definitely an 
>>> education.  Not hard, just a lot of work.
>>> 
>>> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1yVUdWUDNxVGFUcDA 
>>> 
>>> Josh Muckley
>>> S/V Sea Hawk
>>> 1989 C 37+
>>> Solomons, MD
>>> 
>>> On Apr 18, 2016 10:11 PM, "Eugene Fodor via CnC-List" 
>>> > wrote:
>>> Trying to get an idea of the cost for rudder replacement or repair.  The 
>>> boat I'm close to purchasing has some brown drainage from the rudder after 
>>> drilling the bottom which tells me there is some corrosion in the steel 
>>> webbing. I'm handy unsure if this is better left to a marina shop or not 
>>> salvageable long term. Thoughts?
>>> 
>>> Gene
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> 
>>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you 
>>> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All 
>>> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> 
>>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you 
>>> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All 
>>> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
>> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
>> are greatly appreciated!
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Rudder replacement/repair

[John Pennie via CnC-List]

Great shots and very educational Josh - thanks for sharing.  Metal looked to be 
in remarkably good shape.

John

> On Apr 19, 2016, at 9:08 PM, Rick Rohwer via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for sharing the pictures Joh!  Very interesting.
> 
> Rick
> Paikea 37+
> Poulsbo, WA
> 
>> On Apr 18, 2016, at 9:17 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>> > wrote:
>> 
>> My rebuild was ~$5k.  Seeing what the professionals do was definitely an 
>> education.  Not hard, just a lot of work.
>> 
>> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1yVUdWUDNxVGFUcDA 
>> 
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/V Sea Hawk
>> 1989 C 37+
>> Solomons, MD
>> 
>> On Apr 18, 2016 10:11 PM, "Eugene Fodor via CnC-List" > > wrote:
>> Trying to get an idea of the cost for rudder replacement or repair.  The 
>> boat I'm close to purchasing has some brown drainage from the rudder after 
>> drilling the bottom which tells me there is some corrosion in the steel 
>> webbing. I'm handy unsure if this is better left to a marina shop or not 
>> salvageable long term. Thoughts?
>> 
>> Gene
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
>> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
>> are greatly appreciated!
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
>> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
>> are greatly appreciated!
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!