Re: Stus-List Tool recommendation
I have no idea from a real world test how acetone and ATF work together as a penetrating oil, but it does seem unlikely it works well. First off they should not mix so they do not form a homogeneous solution. I would guess that 100% acetone would work well to penetrate but it is not very slippery. Even most hydraulic fluids are not naturally slippery, they require modifiers. Power steering fluid and ATF are closely related, but likely have differences in things like anti-foam additives. Doubt it would be a critical difference for a home brew penetrating oil. Some of the normal vegetable oils are much more slippery, and do mix with acetone. https://www.engineeringforchange.org/news/2012/08/14/how_to_make_penetrating_oil.html So 10% acetone and 90% vegetable oil may work as well as acetone - ATF. The home brew formula may have started with 1,1,1-trichloroethane (a/k/a methyl chloroform) and ATF - Ed's Red formula. Doubt it was worth the hazards involved. http://fireironmfg.proboards.com/thread/87/penetrating-oil The one thing that I have noticed is that when two properly sized and clean threads have locked together nothing will penetrate to any degree that will help. That is why pipe thread can handle pressure and not leak. Yes, it is tapered and has a specific thread but normal non-tapered thread can seal as well. Just speculating, but on an old rusty nut that was not torqued down hard the acetone may do all the penetrating and loosen things up. The ATF may not penetrate at all but helps when backing the nut off. So the fact that they do not mix is not a problem. Michael Brown Windburn CC 30-1 Message: 12 Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 00:13:08 -0300 From: robert robertabb...@eastlink.ca To: David Knecht davidakne...@gmail.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Tool recommendation Message-ID: 55010444.5040...@eastlink.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; Format=flowed David: I will be brave to face a genetic engineer.I suspect the 50-50 acetone ATF concoction has more to do with the 'acetone' than the 'ATF'. I said earlier last week that I thought it was Power Steering Fluid ...both are petroleum based..its the acetonemaybe the petroleum based additive gives us sense of comfortthink about itmost of us are more comfortable with a drop of 'oil' than a drop of 'acetone'. I think it is the 50 % acetone that makes this concoction effective.it can be mixed with any petroleum product 50%-50% and do its thing. Rob Abbott AZURA CC 32 - 84 Halifax,N.S, On 2015-03-11 11:41 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List wrote: I never cease to be amazed by the information I get from this list. This group has an amazittng array or talents and experiences, not just in sailing but also in engineering, metallurgy, mechanics, chemistry etc. etc. The only engineering I can provide advice on is genetic engineering and I suspect there are not going to be a lot of questions on that topic. Sigh! I will be sure to report back on tools and bolts when I find what gets this one off. I may buy a few wrenches just to see how well each works in this not uncommon situation. My box of ratcheting wrenches dumped over a while back and of course ended up in the bilge in salt water. No more ratcheting happening there. As to my real point- I had heard about 50-50 acetone ATF a long time ago as a penetrant so I made some up to try for this experiment, but found that the two are not miscible and phase separate almost immediately. Is that expected and if so, which phase for the bolt? Dave Aries 1990 CC 34+ New London, CT ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Tool recommendation
Regardless of the test results, Kroil worked well for me on a number of problem bolts on my Atomic Four, including exhaust manifold and head and in getting the engine coupling off the shaft. And (for reference of our Canadian listserv members) was surprisingly easy to get close to home in Nanaimo: http://www.4gt.ca/kano-laboratories/ or in Ontario: http://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/eppages/aerokroil.php?clickkey=2037461 Peter Fell Sidney, BC Cygnet CC 27 MkIII From: Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List Sent: Monday, March 09, 2015 11:43 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Tool recommendation This is from an almost 10-year old test, but it should be still true: A study done by Machinist's Workshop magazine in their April 2007 issue looked at different penetrating oils to see which one did the best job of removing a rusted bolt by measuring the pounds of torque required to loosen the bolt once treated. If the study was scientifically accurate, it turns out a home brew works best! Here's the summary of the test results: Penetrating oil .. Average load None . 516 pounds WD-40 238 pounds PB Blaster ... 214 pounds Liquid Wrench 127 pounds Kano Kroil ... 106 pounds ATF-Acetone mix.53 pounds The Automatic Transmission fluid (ATF)-Acetone mix was a home brew mix of 50 – 50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone. Note the home brew was better than any commercial product in this one particular test. Note also that Liquid Wrench is about as good as Kroil for about 20% of the price. Marek ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Tool recommendation
Heat will do the trick, too if you have the room to use a torch without heating other things that shouldn’t be heated. Even a hand help map gas torch can provide effective heat on a small stud and nut combination. If you can get it even a little bit red it will come right off. Don’t heat it with the wrench on it. You will ruin the temper on your wrench. From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Michael Brown via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 10:42 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Tool recommendation I have no idea from a real world test how acetone and ATF work together as a penetrating oil, but it does seem unlikely it works well. First off they should not mix so they do not form a homogeneous solution. I would guess that 100% acetone would work well to penetrate but it is not very slippery. Even most hydraulic fluids are not naturally slippery, they require modifiers. Power steering fluid and ATF are closely related, but likely have differences in things like anti-foam additives. Doubt it would be a critical difference for a home brew penetrating oil. Some of the normal vegetable oils are much more slippery, and do mix with acetone. https://www.engineeringforchange.org/news/2012/08/14/how_to_make_penetrating_oil.html So 10% acetone and 90% vegetable oil may work as well as acetone - ATF. The home brew formula may have started with 1,1,1-trichloroethane (a/k/a methyl chloroform) and ATF - Ed's Red formula. Doubt it was worth the hazards involved. http://fireironmfg.proboards.com/thread/87/penetrating-oil The one thing that I have noticed is that when two properly sized and clean threads have locked together nothing will penetrate to any degree that will help. That is why pipe thread can handle pressure and not leak. Yes, it is tapered and has a specific thread but normal non-tapered thread can seal as well. Just speculating, but on an old rusty nut that was not torqued down hard the acetone may do all the penetrating and loosen things up. The ATF may not penetrate at all but helps when backing the nut off. So the fact that they do not mix is not a problem. Michael Brown Windburn CC 30-1 Message: 12 Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 00:13:08 -0300 From: robert robertabb...@eastlink.ca To: David Knecht davidakne...@gmail.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Tool recommendation Message-ID: 55010444.5040...@eastlink.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; Format=flowed David: I will be brave to face a genetic engineer.I suspect the 50-50 acetone ATF concoction has more to do with the 'acetone' than the 'ATF'. I said earlier last week that I thought it was Power Steering Fluid ...both are petroleum based..its the acetonemaybe the petroleum based additive gives us sense of comfortthink about itmost of us are more comfortable with a drop of 'oil' than a drop of 'acetone'. I think it is the 50 % acetone that makes this concoction effective.it can be mixed with any petroleum product 50%-50% and do its thing. Rob Abbott AZURA CC 32 - 84 Halifax,N.S, On 2015-03-11 11:41 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List wrote: I never cease to be amazed by the information I get from this list. This group has an amazittng array or talents and experiences, not just in sailing but also in engineering, metallurgy, mechanics, chemistry etc. etc. The only engineering I can provide advice on is genetic engineering and I suspect there are not going to be a lot of questions on that topic. Sigh! I will be sure to report back on tools and bolts when I find what gets this one off. I may buy a few wrenches just to see how well each works in this not uncommon situation. My box of ratcheting wrenches dumped over a while back and of course ended up in the bilge in salt water. No more ratcheting happening there. As to my real point- I had heard about 50-50 acetone ATF a long time ago as a penetrant so I made some up to try for this experiment, but found that the two are not miscible and phase separate almost immediately. Is that expected and if so, which phase for the bolt? Dave Aries 1990 CC 34+ New London, CT ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Tool recommendation
Genetic engineering?? Uh oh KHAAN!!! http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/002/357/400px-khan.jpg All the best, Edd --- Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise NCC-1701-B CC 37+ | City Island, NY www.StarshipSailing.com --- 914.332.4400 | Office 914.774.9767 | Mobile --- Sent via iPhone 6 iPhone. iTypos. iApologize At 07:45 PM 11/03/2015, you wrote: h... Genetic engineering The possibilities...the possibilities... David F. Risch (401) 419-4650 (cell) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 22:41:58 -0400 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Tool recommendation From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com I never cease to be amazed by the information I get from this list. This group has an amazing array or talents and experiences, not just in sailing but also in engineering, metallurgy, mechanics, chemistry etc. etc. The only engineering I can provide advice on is genetic engineering and I suspect there are not going to be a lot of questions on that topic. Sigh! I will be sure to report back on tools and bolts when I find what gets this one off. I may buy a few wrenches just to see how well each works in this not uncommon situation. My box of ratcheting wrenches dumped over a while back and of course ended up in the bilge in salt water. No more ratcheting happening there. As to my real point- I had heard about 50-50 acetone ATF a long time ago as a penetrant so I made some up to try for this experiment, but found that the two are not miscible and phase separate almost immediately. Is that expected and if so, which phase for the bolt? Dave Aries 1990 CC 34+ New London, CT ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Tool recommendation
Oh! That makes sense. My brain read Aires comment as generic engineering... Cheers, Russ Sweet 35 mk-1 At 07:45 PM 11/03/2015, you wrote: h... Genetic engineering The possibilities...the possibilities... David F. Risch (401) 419-4650 (cell) -- Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 22:41:58 -0400 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Tool recommendation From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com I never cease to be amazed by the information I get from this list. This group has an amazing array or talents and experiences, not just in sailing but also in engineering, metallurgy, mechanics, chemistry etc. etc. The only engineering I can provide advice on is genetic engineering and I suspect there are not going to be a lot of questions on that topic. Sigh! I will be sure to report back on tools and bolts when I find what gets this one off. I may buy a few wrenches just to see how well each works in this not uncommon situation. My box of ratcheting wrenches dumped over a while back and of course ended up in the bilge in salt water. No more ratcheting happening there. As to my real point- I had heard about 50-50 acetone ATF a long time ago as a penetrant so I made some up to try for this experiment, but found that the two are not miscible and phase separate almost immediately. Is that expected and if so, which phase for the bolt? Dave Aries 1990 CC 34+ New London, CT [] ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Tool recommendation
I never cease to be amazed by the information I get from this list. This group has an amazing array or talents and experiences, not just in sailing but also in engineering, metallurgy, mechanics, chemistry etc. etc. The only engineering I can provide advice on is genetic engineering and I suspect there are not going to be a lot of questions on that topic. Sigh! I will be sure to report back on tools and bolts when I find what gets this one off. I may buy a few wrenches just to see how well each works in this not uncommon situation. My box of ratcheting wrenches dumped over a while back and of course ended up in the bilge in salt water. No more ratcheting happening there. As to my real point- I had heard about 50-50 acetone ATF a long time ago as a penetrant so I made some up to try for this experiment, but found that the two are not miscible and phase separate almost immediately. Is that expected and if so, which phase for the bolt? Dave Aries 1990 CC 34+ New London, CT ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Tool recommendation
h... Genetic engineering The possibilities...the possibilities... David F. Risch (401) 419-4650 (cell) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 22:41:58 -0400 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Tool recommendation From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com I never cease to be amazed by the information I get from this list. This group has an amazing array or talents and experiences, not just in sailing but also in engineering, metallurgy, mechanics, chemistry etc. etc. The only engineering I can provide advice on is genetic engineering and I suspect there are not going to be a lot of questions on that topic. Sigh! I will be sure to report back on tools and bolts when I find what gets this one off. I may buy a few wrenches just to see how well each works in this not uncommon situation. My box of ratcheting wrenches dumped over a while back and of course ended up in the bilge in salt water. No more ratcheting happening there. As to my real point- I had heard about 50-50 acetone ATF a long time ago as a penetrant so I made some up to try for this experiment, but found that the two are not miscible and phase separate almost immediately. Is that expected and if so, which phase for the bolt? Dave Aries1990 CC 34+New London, CT ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Tool recommendation
David: I will be brave to face a genetic engineer.I suspect the 50-50 acetone ATF concoction has more to do with the 'acetone' than the 'ATF'. I said earlier last week that I thought it was Power Steering Fluid ...both are petroleum based..its the acetonemaybe the petroleum based additive gives us sense of comfortthink about itmost of us are more comfortable with a drop of 'oil' than a drop of 'acetone'. I think it is the 50 % acetone that makes this concoction effective.it can be mixed with any petroleum product 50%-50% and do its thing. Rob Abbott AZURA CC 32 - 84 Halifax,N.S, On 2015-03-11 11:41 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List wrote: I never cease to be amazed by the information I get from this list. This group has an amazittng array or talents and experiences, not just in sailing but also in engineering, metallurgy, mechanics, chemistry etc. etc. The only engineering I can provide advice on is genetic engineering and I suspect there are not going to be a lot of questions on that topic. Sigh! I will be sure to report back on tools and bolts when I find what gets this one off. I may buy a few wrenches just to see how well each works in this not uncommon situation. My box of ratcheting wrenches dumped over a while back and of course ended up in the bilge in salt water. No more ratcheting happening there. As to my real point- I had heard about 50-50 acetone ATF a long time ago as a penetrant so I made some up to try for this experiment, but found that the two are not miscible and phase separate almost immediately. Is that expected and if so, which phase for the bolt? Dave Aries 1990 CC 34+ New London, CT ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Tool recommendation
I would NOT try to use an open end wrench of any kind to loosen a bolt that is really stuck. There is too high a probability that you will just round off the head and make your task even more difficult. Use some kind of closed wrench, either the box end of a combination wrench, or a socket, preferably a six point. From your description it sounds like a socket is out of the question, which is too bad. I would not try to use any kind of one size fits all or adjustable for breaking it loose either. I have never yet seen one that will reliably transmit torque as good as a solid lump of metal. Once the bolt is broke free there are many options. I like the box end wrenches that have the ratchet built in, in situations when a socket wrench cannot be used. They are almost as good as combination wrenches for tight fitting situations and the ratchet makes them a lot more convenient to use. Steve Thomas CC27 MKIII - Original Message - From: David Knecht via CnC-List To: CnC CnC discussion list Sent: Monday, March 09, 2015 10:12 Subject: Stus-List Tool recommendation I was at the boat yesterday and tried to take the heat exchanger off the engine (Universal M4-30) so I could refurbish the seals and make sure it is clean (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/heat_exchanger). One bolt came off easily but the one on the starboard side is a challenge. I cannot get a socket on it because something from the engine or transmission is partially blocking frontal access. I found my wrench selection on board is less than adequate and I need to upgrade. I tried with a short 1/2 open end wrench and was able to get it on, but could not budge the bolt. I left it sprayed with penetrant hoping that will loosen it. I looked at other wrench types to see what would be useful in this situation and came upon this ratcheting wrench I had not seen before: http://www.amazon.com/Alden-Wrench-56038-Ratching-Open-End/dp/B002VEC9XE/ref=sr_1_1?s=hiie=UTF8qid=1425909762sr=1-1keywords=alden+ratchet It looks like something useful to have on the boat as the clamping action should work on both metric and SAE, it is stainless and it ratchets. Has anyone tried something like this? The other type I am considering is the flex head ratcheting wrenches: http://www.amazon.com/Husky5-Pieces-SAE-Flex-Ratcheting-Wrench/dp/B00CBFVKT2/ref=sr_1_4?s=hiie=UTF8qid=1425910197sr=1-4keywords=ratcheting+flex+wrenches Dave Aries 1990 CC 34+ New London, CT -- ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Tool recommendation
David, Not sure if they will do the job for you but I find the GearWrench 85035 35 piece MicroDriver Set very useful when working on boats. I also find the GearWrench ratcheting wrenches useful. They ratchet with as little as 5 degrees swing. Very nice when working in tight spaces. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 9:12 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I was at the boat yesterday and tried to take the heat exchanger off the engine (Universal M4-30) so I could refurbish the seals and make sure it is clean (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/heat_exchanger). One bolt came off easily but the one on the starboard side is a challenge. I cannot get a socket on it because something from the engine or transmission is partially blocking frontal access. I found my wrench selection on board is less than adequate and I need to upgrade. I tried with a short 1/2 open end wrench and was able to get it on, but could not budge the bolt. I left it sprayed with penetrant hoping that will loosen it. I looked at other wrench types to see what would be useful in this situation and came upon this ratcheting wrench I had not seen before: http://www.amazon.com/Alden-Wrench-56038-Ratching-Open-End/dp/B002VEC9XE/ref=sr_1_1?s=hiie=UTF8qid=1425909762sr=1-1keywords=alden+ratchet It looks like something useful to have on the boat as the clamping action should work on both metric and SAE, it is stainless and it ratchets. Has anyone tried something like this? The other type I am considering is the flex head ratcheting wrenches: http://www.amazon.com/Husky5-Pieces-SAE-Flex-Ratcheting-Wrench/dp/B00CBFVKT2/ref=sr_1_4?s=hiie=UTF8qid=1425910197sr=1-4keywords=ratcheting+flex+wrenches Dave Aries 1990 CC 34+ New London, CT ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Tool recommendation
I find these to be useful when I can't get a socket in a tight space. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-SAE-Reversible-Ratchet-Wrench-Set-5-Piece-HRRW5PCSAE/202934583 On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 8:43 AM Dennis C. via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: David, Not sure if they will do the job for you but I find the GearWrench 85035 35 piece MicroDriver Set very useful when working on boats. I also find the GearWrench ratcheting wrenches useful. They ratchet with as little as 5 degrees swing. Very nice when working in tight spaces. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 9:12 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I was at the boat yesterday and tried to take the heat exchanger off the engine (Universal M4-30) so I could refurbish the seals and make sure it is clean (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/heat_exchanger). One bolt came off easily but the one on the starboard side is a challenge. I cannot get a socket on it because something from the engine or transmission is partially blocking frontal access. I found my wrench selection on board is less than adequate and I need to upgrade. I tried with a short 1/2 open end wrench and was able to get it on, but could not budge the bolt. I left it sprayed with penetrant hoping that will loosen it. I looked at other wrench types to see what would be useful in this situation and came upon this ratcheting wrench I had not seen before: http://www.amazon.com/Alden-Wrench-56038-Ratching-Open-End/dp/B002VEC9XE/ref=sr_1_1?s=hiie=UTF8qid=1425909762sr=1-1keywords=alden+ratchet It looks like something useful to have on the boat as the clamping action should work on both metric and SAE, it is stainless and it ratchets. Has anyone tried something like this? The other type I am considering is the flex head ratcheting wrenches: http://www.amazon.com/Husky5-Pieces-SAE-Flex-Ratcheting-Wrench/dp/B00CBFVKT2/ref=sr_1_4?s=hiie=UTF8qid=1425910197sr=1-4keywords=ratcheting+flex+wrenches Dave Aries 1990 CC 34+ New London, CT ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Tool recommendation
The usual formula I have heard of is 50:50 acetone and ATF. I have no idea how the power steering fluid compares to ATF, however...so I can't make any calls that way. Jim Watts Paradigm Shift CC 35 Mk III Victoria, BC On 9 March 2015 at 09:20, robert via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Steve: Advice, that from my experience in these situations, I would agree with. If the bolt won't turn, anything less than a perfect fit will begin the 'stripping process' which will ultimately make the job more difficult. David, I have tried this 'home made penetration concoction' with success..by volume, half and half of power steering fluid and acetone..and make sure if you try this, it gets on the parts you want unseized and not on other parts, like hoses, belts, etc.I used an 'eye dropper' which I found very controllable and exact.almost no spillage. I loosen the seized bolts on my mixing elbow and exhaust flange with this concoction before I got into trouble with , maybe a broken bolt head. Rob Abbott AZURA CC 32 - 84 Halifax, N.S. On 2015-03-09 11:43 AM, Steve Thomas via CnC-List wrote: I would NOT try to use an open end wrench of any kind to loosen a bolt that is really stuck. There is too high a probability that you will just round off the head and make your task even more difficult. Use some kind of closed wrench, either the box end of a combination wrench, or a socket, preferably a six point. From your description it sounds like a socket is out of the question, which is too bad. I would not try to use any kind of one size fits all or adjustable for breaking it loose either. I have never yet seen one that will reliably transmit torque as good as a solid lump of metal. Once the bolt is broke free there are many options. I like the box end wrenches that have the ratchet built in, in situations when a socket wrench cannot be used. They are almost as good as combination wrenches for tight fitting situations and the ratchet makes them a lot more convenient to use. Steve Thomas CC27 MKIII - Original Message - *From:* David Knecht via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com *To:* CnC CnC discussion list CnC-List@cnc-list.com *Sent:* Monday, March 09, 2015 10:12 *Subject:* Stus-List Tool recommendation I was at the boat yesterday and tried to take the heat exchanger off the engine (Universal M4-30) so I could refurbish the seals and make sure it is clean (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/heat_exchanger). One bolt came off easily but the one on the starboard side is a challenge. I cannot get a socket on it because something from the engine or transmission is partially blocking frontal access. I found my wrench selection on board is less than adequate and I need to upgrade. I tried with a short 1/2 open end wrench and was able to get it on, but could not budge the bolt. I left it sprayed with penetrant hoping that will loosen it. I looked at other wrench types to see what would be useful in this situation and came upon this ratcheting wrench I had not seen before: http://www.amazon.com/Alden-Wrench-56038-Ratching-Open-End/dp/B002VEC9XE/ref=sr_1_1?s=hiie=UTF8qid=1425909762sr=1-1keywords=alden+ratchet It looks like something useful to have on the boat as the clamping action should work on both metric and SAE, it is stainless and it ratchets. Has anyone tried something like this? The other type I am considering is the flex head ratcheting wrenches: http://www.amazon.com/Husky5-Pieces-SAE-Flex-Ratcheting-Wrench/dp/B00CBFVKT2/ref=sr_1_4?s=hiie=UTF8qid=1425910197sr=1-4keywords=ratcheting+flex+wrenches Dave Aries 1990 CC 34+ New London, CT -- ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at:http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Tool recommendation
Yes, as a matter of fact the Alden wrenches are sized like normal wrenches. The ones that we made with the grad students were fixed jaw. The pivoting clamp lower jaw is an improvement to the concept. I don't have any in my tool box. Neil Schiller 1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7 (CC 35, Mark I) Corsair On 3/9/2015 11:31 AM, David Knecht wrote: On Mar 9, 2015, at 11:10 AM, nmschil...@charter.net mailto:nmschil...@charter.net wrote: During my time at Michigan Tech, I ran the photo lab for the Mechanical Engineering/Engineering Mechanics Department. The photo lab was attached to the photoelastic analysis labs. One of the projects that they did for the MSEM degree was to use a lexan model of a wrench and make the modification that this wrench has. They really do work! Do they have size flexibility? If they actually clamp on as you apply pressure, you would think they might work on near sized metrics as well. However, can you get a socket with a wobble extension in there? A wobble extension will get you a more torque ability than a wrench. You can find them at Harbor Freight. A great addition to the tool box. I can’t get the socket itself on, so the wobble won’t help. It might work with a very shallow socket and then I would’t need the wobble as the center is accessible. Neil Schiller 1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7 (CC 35, Mark I) Corsair Michigan Tech, BSME '77 (Retired after 37.5 years of Aerospace and Defense design) On 3/9/2015 10:12 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List wrote: I was at the boat yesterday and tried to take the heat exchanger off the engine (Universal M4-30) so I could refurbish the seals and make sure it is clean (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/heat_exchanger). One bolt came off easily but the one on the starboard side is a challenge. I cannot get a socket on it because something from the engine or transmission is partially blocking frontal access. I found my wrench selection on board is less than adequate and I need to upgrade. I tried with a short 1/2 open end wrench and was able to get it on, but could not budge the bolt. I left it sprayed with penetrant hoping that will loosen it. I looked at other wrench types to see what would be useful in this situation and came upon this ratcheting wrench I had not seen before: http://www.amazon.com/Alden-Wrench-56038-Ratching-Open-End/dp/B002VEC9XE/ref=sr_1_1?s=hiie=UTF8qid=1425909762sr=1-1keywords=alden+ratchet It looks like something useful to have on the boat as the clamping action should work on both metric and SAE, it is stainless and it ratchets. Has anyone tried something like this? The other type I am considering is the flex head ratcheting wrenches: http://www.amazon.com/Husky5-Pieces-SAE-Flex-Ratcheting-Wrench/dp/B00CBFVKT2/ref=sr_1_4?s=hiie=UTF8qid=1425910197sr=1-4keywords=ratcheting+flex+wrenches Dave Aries 1990 CC 34+ New London, CT ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com Dr. David Knecht Professor of Molecular and Cell Biology Core Microscopy Facility Director University of Connecticut 91 N. Eagleville Rd. Storrs, CT 06269 860-486-2200 ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Tool recommendation
This is from an almost 10-year old test, but it should be still true: A study done by Machinist's Workshop magazine in their April 2007 issue looked at different penetrating oils to see which one did the best job of removing a rusted bolt by measuring the pounds of torque required to loosen the bolt once treated. If the study was scientifically accurate, it turns out a home brew works best! Here's the summary of the test results: Penetrating oil .. Average load None . 516 pounds WD-40 238 pounds PB Blaster ... 214 pounds Liquid Wrench 127 pounds Kano Kroil ... 106 pounds ATF-Acetone mix.53 pounds The Automatic Transmission fluid (ATF)-Acetone mix was a home brew mix of 50 – 50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone. Note the home brew was better than any commercial product in this one particular test. Note also that Liquid Wrench is about as good as Kroil for about 20% of the price. Marek From: robert via CnC-List Sent: Monday, March 09, 2015 12:20 PM To: Steve Thomas ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Tool recommendation Steve: Advice, that from my experience in these situations, I would agree with. If the bolt won't turn, anything less than a perfect fit will begin the 'stripping process' which will ultimately make the job more difficult. David, I have tried this 'home made penetration concoction' with success..by volume, half and half of power steering fluid and acetone..and make sure if you try this, it gets on the parts you want unseized and not on other parts, like hoses, belts, etc.I used an 'eye dropper' which I found very controllable and exact.almost no spillage. I loosen the seized bolts on my mixing elbow and exhaust flange with this concoction before I got into trouble with , maybe a broken bolt head. Rob Abbott AZURA CC 32 - 84 Halifax, N.S. On 2015-03-09 11:43 AM, Steve Thomas via CnC-List wrote: I would NOT try to use an open end wrench of any kind to loosen a bolt that is really stuck. There is too high a probability that you will just round off the head and make your task even more difficult. Use some kind of closed wrench, either the box end of a combination wrench, or a socket, preferably a six point. From your description it sounds like a socket is out of the question, which is too bad. I would not try to use any kind of one size fits all or adjustable for breaking it loose either. I have never yet seen one that will reliably transmit torque as good as a solid lump of metal. Once the bolt is broke free there are many options. I like the box end wrenches that have the ratchet built in, in situations when a socket wrench cannot be used. They are almost as good as combination wrenches for tight fitting situations and the ratchet makes them a lot more convenient to use. Steve Thomas CC27 MKIII - Original Message - From: David Knecht via CnC-List To: CnC CnC discussion list Sent: Monday, March 09, 2015 10:12 Subject: Stus-List Tool recommendation I was at the boat yesterday and tried to take the heat exchanger off the engine (Universal M4-30) so I could refurbish the seals and make sure it is clean (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/heat_exchanger). One bolt came off easily but the one on the starboard side is a challenge. I cannot get a socket on it because something from the engine or transmission is partially blocking frontal access. I found my wrench selection on board is less than adequate and I need to upgrade. I tried with a short 1/2 open end wrench and was able to get it on, but could not budge the bolt. I left it sprayed with penetrant hoping that will loosen it. I looked at other wrench types to see what would be useful in this situation and came upon this ratcheting wrench I had not seen before: http://www.amazon.com/Alden-Wrench-56038-Ratching-Open-End/dp/B002VEC9XE/ref=sr_1_1?s=hiie=UTF8qid=1425909762sr=1-1keywords=alden+ratchet It looks like something useful to have on the boat as the clamping action should work on both metric and SAE, it is stainless and it ratchets. Has anyone tried something like this? The other type I am considering is the flex head ratcheting wrenches: http://www.amazon.com/Husky5-Pieces-SAE-Flex-Ratcheting-Wrench/dp/B00CBFVKT2/ref=sr_1_4?s=hiie=UTF8qid=1425910197sr=1-4keywords=ratcheting+flex+wrenches Dave Aries 1990 CC 34+ New London, CT ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC
Re: Stus-List Tool recommendation
Jim: You are correct, thank you. and to David who I hope reads your correction .it is 50:50 acetone and Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) and not Power Steering Fluid (PSF). For the purposes of what we are talking about using this concoction, a 50:50 of either ATF or PWF will probably work. differences of the two include, as I understand, heat tolerance and anti forming properties.both are petroleum products. In addition to the boat experience, I used it once on a screw on my car and an home plumbing application with success. Maybe both would have come free without this concoction, but both came free with it, so it gained my confidence. I keep 2 oz. bottle with an eye dropper around. if I could only remember where I put it. Rob Abbott AZURA CC 32 - 84 Halifax, N.S. On 2015-03-09 2:23 PM, Jim Watts wrote: The usual formula I have heard of is 50:50 acetone and ATF. I have no idea how the power steering fluid compares to ATF, however...so I can't make any calls that way. Jim Watts Paradigm Shift CC 35 Mk III Victoria, BC On 9 March 2015 at 09:20, robert via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Steve: Advice, that from my experience in these situations, I would agree with. If the bolt won't turn, anything less than a perfect fit will begin the 'stripping process' which will ultimately make the job more difficult. David, I have tried this 'home made penetration concoction' with success..by volume, half and half of power steering fluid and acetone..and make sure if you try this, it gets on the parts you want unseized and not on other parts, like hoses, belts, etc.I used an 'eye dropper' which I found very controllable and exact.almost no spillage. I loosen the seized bolts on my mixing elbow and exhaust flange with this concoction before I got into trouble with , maybe a broken bolt head. Rob Abbott AZURA CC 32 - 84 Halifax, N.S. On 2015-03-09 11:43 AM, Steve Thomas via CnC-List wrote: I would NOT try to use an open end wrench of any kind to loosen a bolt that is really stuck. There is too high a probability that you will just round off the head and make your task even more difficult. Use some kind of closed wrench, either the box end of a combination wrench, or a socket, preferably a six point. From your description it sounds like a socket is out of the question, which is too bad. I would not try to use any kind of one size fits all or adjustable for breaking it loose either. I have never yet seen one that will reliably transmit torque as good as a solid lump of metal. Once the bolt is broke free there are many options. I like the box end wrenches that have the ratchet built in, in situations when a socket wrench cannot be used. They are almost as good as combination wrenches for tight fitting situations and the ratchet makes them a lot more convenient to use. Steve Thomas CC27 MKIII - Original Message - *From:* David Knecht via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com *To:* CnC CnC discussion list mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com *Sent:* Monday, March 09, 2015 10:12 *Subject:* Stus-List Tool recommendation I was at the boat yesterday and tried to take the heat exchanger off the engine (Universal M4-30) so I could refurbish the seals and make sure it is clean (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/heat_exchanger). One bolt came off easily but the one on the starboard side is a challenge. I cannot get a socket on it because something from the engine or transmission is partially blocking frontal access. I found my wrench selection on board is less than adequate and I need to upgrade. I tried with a short 1/2 open end wrench and was able to get it on, but could not budge the bolt. I left it sprayed with penetrant hoping that will loosen it. I looked at other wrench types to see what would be useful in this situation and came upon this ratcheting wrench I had not seen before: http://www.amazon.com/Alden-Wrench-56038-Ratching-Open-End/dp/B002VEC9XE/ref=sr_1_1?s=hiie=UTF8qid=1425909762sr=1-1keywords=alden+ratchet It looks like something useful to have on the boat as the clamping action should work on both metric and SAE, it is stainless and it ratchets. Has anyone tried something like this? The other type I am considering is the flex head ratcheting wrenches: http://www.amazon.com/Husky5-Pieces-SAE-Flex-Ratcheting-Wrench/dp/B00CBFVKT2/ref=sr_1_4?s=hiie=UTF8qid=1425910197sr=1-4keywords=ratcheting+flex+wrenches Dave Aries 1990 CC 34+ New London, CT
Re: Stus-List Tool recommendation (Kevin Driscoll)
If you are up for a detour from Bangor over to the coast, you could go to West Marine in Southwest Harbor (on Mount Desert Island). Damian Greene CC 34 GHOSTTremont, Mount Desert Island, Maine From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List Sent: Monday, March 09, 2015 12:49 PM To: schiller; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List marine stores in bangor maine I will be driving through Bangor later this month and wish to pick up some paint that I cannot source in Canada. Any suggestions of a convenient place to get this? Regards Mike Persistence ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
