Re: Stus-List AIS and MMSI as well as marine radio use in Canada

[Glenn Gambel via CnC-List]

Fred,
Thanks for the help.  It was very valuable and I am on my way to getting 
applications completed.


-- Original Message --
From: "Frederick G Street via CnC-List" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: "Frederick G Street" 
Sent: 4/11/2017 10:09:50 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List AIS and MMSI as well as marine radio use in 
Canada



Why thank you… usually…   :^)

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

On Apr 9, 2017, at 8:59 PM, Steve Thomas via CnC-List 
 wrote:


What Fred said is correct.
His comments usually are.
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Re: Stus-List AIS and MMSI as well as marine radio use in Canada

[Steve Thomas via CnC-List]

Vessel registration (equivalent to U.S.C.G. documentation) is a one time fee in 
Canada, presently $250, but there is an annual fee for a ship's station 
license. The Restricted Operator Certificate (Maritime) is for life. 

__Steve Thomas


 Frederick G Street via CnC-List  wrote: 

Just to be clear, the Ship’s Station license in the US is NOT an annual 
renewal, but rather every ten years.  It ends up costing about $22.50 USD per 
year to carry it; about the same as the annual documentation renewal.

— Fred


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(



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Re: Stus-List AIS and MMSI as well as marine radio use in Canada

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

On Apr 9, 2017, at 11:29 PM, Steve Thomas via CnC-List  
wrote:

>  My understanding of the situation is as follows:
>   …
>I don't think that either U.S. pleasure craft operators, or U.S. pleasure 
> craft, are required to have any sort of license to operate within U.S. 
> territorial waters. 

This is correct; recreational craft which do NOT travel internationally are 
considered “voluntary ships” by the FCC; you can have a license if you’d like.  
All this really gets you is a VHF call sign.  But if you travel outside US 
waters (including international waters), you are required by International 
treaty to have a license to operate radio equipment (including radar, VHF, SSB 
and EPIRB) issued from your country of origin.

>All vessels in international waters, or when entering foreign waters, are 
> required to follow international rules by default, which include a 
> requirement for both operator and station licenses. So since we lack specific 
> agreements or legislation to the contrary, we are legally bound to follow the 
> international rules with respect to licensing of both operators and vessels 
> when in each other's countries. 

In the US, the Ship’s Station license fulfills this requirement.

>At least that is my take on it. Having to pay an annual fee for a station 
> license on a pleasure craft  is just another example of parasitic government 
> bureaucracy in my opinion. It serves no useful purpose. 
> 
> Steve Thomas
> (Canadian in Florida)

Just to be clear, the Ship’s Station license in the US is NOT an annual 
renewal, but rather every ten years.  It ends up costing about $22.50 USD per 
year to carry it; about the same as the annual documentation renewal.

— Fred


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

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Re: Stus-List AIS and MMSI as well as marine radio use in Canada

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Why thank you… usually…   :^)

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Apr 9, 2017, at 8:59 PM, Steve Thomas via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> What Fred said is correct.
> His comments usually are. 

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Re: Stus-List AIS and MMSI as well as marine radio use in Canada

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Steve,

Good point.

I will check in the materials I have if there is something about some 
reciprocal agreement. I think that there was something there about honouring 
the local rules, as long as the boat was “visiting”, i.e. only temporary, for a 
limited amount of time etc. Kind of, similar to how it works for the safety 
equipment certifications. But I might remember it completely wrong.

Marek

From: Steve Thomas via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 00:30
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Steve Thomas
Subject: Re: Stus-List AIS and MMSI as well as marine radio use in Canada

   My understanding of the situation is as follows:
   Unless something has quietly changed quite recently, international rules 
require licenses for both operators and vessels. Countries are within their 
rights to add or subtract rules within their own territorial jurisdictions. 
Canadian pleasure craft operators are required to have a Restricted Operator's 
Certificate (Maritime) at home and abroad. An endorsement is required on the 
operator's certificate if the vessel is equipped with a DSC enabled radio. A 
station license is not required for Canadian pleasure craft operating in 
Canadian waters. MMSI registration is not a license.
I don't think that either U.S. pleasure craft operators, or U.S. pleasure 
craft, are required to have any sort of license to operate within U.S. 
territorial waters.
All vessels in international waters, or when entering foreign waters, are 
required to follow international rules by default, which include a requirement 
for both operator and station licenses. So since we lack specific agreements or 
legislation to the contrary, we are legally bound to follow the international 
rules with respect to licensing of both operators and vessels when in each 
other's countries.
At least that is my take on it. Having to pay an annual fee for a station 
license on a pleasure craft  is just another example of parasitic government 
bureaucracy in my opinion. It serves no useful purpose.

Steve Thomas
(Canadian in Florida)

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Re: Stus-List AIS and MMSI as well as marine radio use in Canada

[Steve Thomas via CnC-List]

   My understanding of the situation is as follows:
   Unless something has quietly changed quite recently, international rules 
require licenses for both operators and vessels. Countries are within their 
rights to add or subtract rules within their own territorial jurisdictions. 
Canadian pleasure craft operators are required to have a Restricted Operator's 
Certificate (Maritime) at home and abroad. An endorsement is required on the 
operator's certificate if the vessel is equipped with a DSC enabled radio. A 
station license is not required for Canadian pleasure craft operating in 
Canadian waters. MMSI registration is not a license.
I don't think that either U.S. pleasure craft operators, or U.S. pleasure 
craft, are required to have any sort of license to operate within U.S. 
territorial waters. 
All vessels in international waters, or when entering foreign waters, are 
required to follow international rules by default, which include a requirement 
for both operator and station licenses. So since we lack specific agreements or 
legislation to the contrary, we are legally bound to follow the international 
rules with respect to licensing of both operators and vessels when in each 
other's countries. 
At least that is my take on it. Having to pay an annual fee for a station 
license on a pleasure craft  is just another example of parasitic government 
bureaucracy in my opinion. It serves no useful purpose. 

Steve Thomas
(Canadian in Florida)

 Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List  wrote: 
Steve,

Is it that you need a station licence? I think it is an operator licence that 
you require for operating VHF (and you need one if you have a VHF on board). If 
I remember correctly from the course I took a few years back, that licence is 
valid across the border, provided that it is valid in your local jurisdiction.

For sure your MMSI has to be valid for international waters (so, in case of the 
US, you need an FCC licence).

And I think, if you have SSB, it is a totally different story.

Marek
In Ottawa, ON

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Steve Thomas 
via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2017 21:59
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Steve Thomas 
Subject: Re: Stus-List AIS and MMSI as well as marine radio use in Canada

What Fred said is correct.
His comments usually are. 

I would add that the station license requirement was supposed to have been 
eliminated for border area waters by an agreement between Canada and the United 
States that was awaiting the final formality in the approval process when the 
911 terrorist attacks occurred. In the ensuing freak out, the U.S.government 
refused to finalize the agreement, and that was that. I have never heard of 
anyone getting in trouble for not having a pleasure craft station license on 
the Great Lakes, but all it would take is one unreasonable enforcement officer. 

Steve Thomas
C MKIII
Port Stanley, ON

Port Stanley, ON

 Frederick G Street via CnC-List  wrote: 
Glenn — technically, yes, you do need a Ship’s Station license to use VHF, 
radar, AIS, SSB, etc. outside the U.S.  The BoatUS-issued MMSIs are good only 
in territorial US waters.  But like Andrew said, you most likely won’t be asked 
for it.

The form you need is FCC 605; it is used for a variety of licensing (like 
aircraft and amateur radio), so you have to make sure to fill out the 
appropriate sections.  The FCC online forms website is pretty good; I used it 
last month to renew my license:  https://www.fcc.gov/fcc-form-605 


— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Apr 9, 2017, at 5:12 PM, Glenn Gambel via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
>  If a boat crosses from the United States in to Canada and stops at a 
> Canadian port, must the vessel (sailboat) have a ships station license from 
> the FCC?  I believe the answer is yes.  Also, if the vessel has AIS and MMSI, 
> I believe that is necessary to have a ship station license and have the MMSI 
> issued by the FCC so that it meets the international treaty requirements.
> 
> I thought someone out there would know if I am correct or incorrect.
> 
> Also where I might find the correct forms on the FCC website, if they are 
> needed.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> Glenn Gambel
> C 36
> Wind N Spirits
> 



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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All 

Re: Stus-List AIS and MMSI as well as marine radio use in Canada

[svpegasus38 via CnC-List]

From my understanding the MMSI number, if gotten through Boatus is still good 
in international waters, but any information about your vassal is not listed. 
Where one from the FCC, your information is listed during an emergency contact 
to local Coast Guard. 


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE DeviceDoug Mountjoy POYC Pegasus Lf38 
 Original message From: Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
 Date: 4/9/17  19:32  (GMT-08:00) To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Marek Dziedzic  Subject: Re: 
Stus-List AIS and MMSI as well as marine radio use in Canada 
Steve,

Is it that you need a station licence? I think it is an operator licence that 
you require for operating VHF (and you need one if you have a VHF on board). If 
I remember correctly from the course I took a few years back, that licence is 
valid across the border, provided that it is valid in your local jurisdiction.

For sure your MMSI has to be valid for international waters (so, in case of the 
US, you need an FCC licence).

And I think, if you have SSB, it is a totally different story.

Marek
In Ottawa, ON

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Steve Thomas 
via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2017 21:59
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Steve Thomas 
Subject: Re: Stus-List AIS and MMSI as well as marine radio use in Canada

What Fred said is correct.
His comments usually are. 

I would add that the station license requirement was supposed to have been 
eliminated for border area waters by an agreement between Canada and the United 
States that was awaiting the final formality in the approval process when the 
911 terrorist attacks occurred. In the ensuing freak out, the U.S.government 
refused to finalize the agreement, and that was that. I have never heard of 
anyone getting in trouble for not having a pleasure craft station license on 
the Great Lakes, but all it would take is one unreasonable enforcement officer. 

Steve Thomas
C MKIII
Port Stanley, ON

Port Stanley, ON

 Frederick G Street via CnC-List  wrote: 
Glenn — technically, yes, you do need a Ship’s Station license to use VHF, 
radar, AIS, SSB, etc. outside the U.S.  The BoatUS-issued MMSIs are good only 
in territorial US waters.  But like Andrew said, you most likely won’t be asked 
for it.

The form you need is FCC 605; it is used for a variety of licensing (like 
aircraft and amateur radio), so you have to make sure to fill out the 
appropriate sections.  The FCC online forms website is pretty good; I used it 
last month to renew my license:  https://www.fcc.gov/fcc-form-605 


— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Apr 9, 2017, at 5:12 PM, Glenn Gambel via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
>  If a boat crosses from the United States in to Canada and stops at a 
>Canadian port, must the vessel (sailboat) have a ships station license from 
>the FCC?  I believe the answer is yes.  Also, if the vessel has AIS and MMSI, 
>I believe that is necessary to have a ship station license and have the MMSI 
>issued by the FCC so that it meets the international treaty requirements.
> 
> I thought someone out there would know if I am correct or incorrect.
> 
> Also where I might find the correct forms on the FCC website, if they are 
> needed.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> Glenn Gambel
> C 36
> Wind N Spirits
> 



___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List AIS and MMSI as well as marine radio use in Canada

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Steve,

Is it that you need a station licence? I think it is an operator licence that 
you require for operating VHF (and you need one if you have a VHF on board). If 
I remember correctly from the course I took a few years back, that licence is 
valid across the border, provided that it is valid in your local jurisdiction.

For sure your MMSI has to be valid for international waters (so, in case of the 
US, you need an FCC licence).

And I think, if you have SSB, it is a totally different story.

Marek
In Ottawa, ON

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Steve Thomas 
via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2017 21:59
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Steve Thomas 
Subject: Re: Stus-List AIS and MMSI as well as marine radio use in Canada

What Fred said is correct.
His comments usually are. 

I would add that the station license requirement was supposed to have been 
eliminated for border area waters by an agreement between Canada and the United 
States that was awaiting the final formality in the approval process when the 
911 terrorist attacks occurred. In the ensuing freak out, the U.S.government 
refused to finalize the agreement, and that was that. I have never heard of 
anyone getting in trouble for not having a pleasure craft station license on 
the Great Lakes, but all it would take is one unreasonable enforcement officer. 

Steve Thomas
C MKIII
Port Stanley, ON

Port Stanley, ON

 Frederick G Street via CnC-List  wrote: 
Glenn — technically, yes, you do need a Ship’s Station license to use VHF, 
radar, AIS, SSB, etc. outside the U.S.  The BoatUS-issued MMSIs are good only 
in territorial US waters.  But like Andrew said, you most likely won’t be asked 
for it.

The form you need is FCC 605; it is used for a variety of licensing (like 
aircraft and amateur radio), so you have to make sure to fill out the 
appropriate sections.  The FCC online forms website is pretty good; I used it 
last month to renew my license:  https://www.fcc.gov/fcc-form-605 


— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Apr 9, 2017, at 5:12 PM, Glenn Gambel via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
>  If a boat crosses from the United States in to Canada and stops at a 
> Canadian port, must the vessel (sailboat) have a ships station license from 
> the FCC?  I believe the answer is yes.  Also, if the vessel has AIS and MMSI, 
> I believe that is necessary to have a ship station license and have the MMSI 
> issued by the FCC so that it meets the international treaty requirements.
> 
> I thought someone out there would know if I am correct or incorrect.
> 
> Also where I might find the correct forms on the FCC website, if they are 
> needed.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> Glenn Gambel
> C 36
> Wind N Spirits
> 



___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List AIS and MMSI as well as marine radio use in Canada

[Steve Thomas via CnC-List]

What Fred said is correct.
His comments usually are. 

I would add that the station license requirement was supposed to have been 
eliminated for border area waters by an agreement between Canada and the United 
States that was awaiting the final formality in the approval process when the 
911 terrorist attacks occurred. In the ensuing freak out, the U.S.government 
refused to finalize the agreement, and that was that. I have never heard of 
anyone getting in trouble for not having a pleasure craft station license on 
the Great Lakes, but all it would take is one unreasonable enforcement officer. 

Steve Thomas
C MKIII
Port Stanley, ON

Port Stanley, ON

 Frederick G Street via CnC-List  wrote: 
Glenn — technically, yes, you do need a Ship’s Station license to use VHF, 
radar, AIS, SSB, etc. outside the U.S.  The BoatUS-issued MMSIs are good only 
in territorial US waters.  But like Andrew said, you most likely won’t be asked 
for it.

The form you need is FCC 605; it is used for a variety of licensing (like 
aircraft and amateur radio), so you have to make sure to fill out the 
appropriate sections.  The FCC online forms website is pretty good; I used it 
last month to renew my license:  https://www.fcc.gov/fcc-form-605 


— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Apr 9, 2017, at 5:12 PM, Glenn Gambel via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
>  If a boat crosses from the United States in to Canada and stops at a 
> Canadian port, must the vessel (sailboat) have a ships station license from 
> the FCC?  I believe the answer is yes.  Also, if the vessel has AIS and MMSI, 
> I believe that is necessary to have a ship station license and have the MMSI 
> issued by the FCC so that it meets the international treaty requirements.
> 
> I thought someone out there would know if I am correct or incorrect.
> 
> Also where I might find the correct forms on the FCC website, if they are 
> needed.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> Glenn Gambel
> C 36
> Wind N Spirits
> 



___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List AIS and MMSI as well as marine radio use in Canada

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Glenn — technically, yes, you do need a Ship’s Station license to use VHF, 
radar, AIS, SSB, etc. outside the U.S.  The BoatUS-issued MMSIs are good only 
in territorial US waters.  But like Andrew said, you most likely won’t be asked 
for it.

The form you need is FCC 605; it is used for a variety of licensing (like 
aircraft and amateur radio), so you have to make sure to fill out the 
appropriate sections.  The FCC online forms website is pretty good; I used it 
last month to renew my license:  https://www.fcc.gov/fcc-form-605 


— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Apr 9, 2017, at 5:12 PM, Glenn Gambel via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
>  If a boat crosses from the United States in to Canada and stops at a 
> Canadian port, must the vessel (sailboat) have a ships station license from 
> the FCC?  I believe the answer is yes.  Also, if the vessel has AIS and MMSI, 
> I believe that is necessary to have a ship station license and have the MMSI 
> issued by the FCC so that it meets the international treaty requirements.
> 
> I thought someone out there would know if I am correct or incorrect.
> 
> Also where I might find the correct forms on the FCC website, if they are 
> needed.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> Glenn Gambel
> C 36
> Wind N Spirits
> 

___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List AIS and MMSI as well as marine radio use in Canada

[T power via CnC-List]

My boat has a registered AIS and MMSI. Easy to do online I did not require any 
license, nor do I have one.

Cheers.

Tom


Sent from Outlook

From: CnC-List  on behalf of Andrew Burton via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Sunday, April 9, 2017 8:06:16 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Andrew Burton
Subject: Re: Stus-List AIS and MMSI as well as marine radio use in Canada

I've never been asked by either government.

Andy
C 40
Peregrine

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Apr 9, 2017, at 18:12, Glenn Gambel via CnC-List 
> wrote:

 If a boat crosses from the United States in to Canada and stops at a Canadian 
port, must the vessel (sailboat) have a ships station license from the FCC?  I 
believe the answer is yes.  Also, if the vessel has AIS and MMSI, I believe 
that is necessary to have a ship station license and have the MMSI issued by 
the FCC so that it meets the international treaty requirements.

I thought someone out there would know if I am correct or incorrect.

Also where I might find the correct forms on the FCC website, if they are 
needed.

Thanks in advance
Glenn Gambel
C 36
Wind N Spirits
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List AIS and MMSI as well as marine radio use in Canada

[Andrew Burton via CnC-List]

I've never been asked by either government.

Andy
C 40
Peregrine 

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

> On Apr 9, 2017, at 18:12, Glenn Gambel via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
>  If a boat crosses from the United States in to Canada and stops at a 
> Canadian port, must the vessel (sailboat) have a ships station license from 
> the FCC?  I believe the answer is yes.  Also, if the vessel has AIS and MMSI, 
> I believe that is necessary to have a ship station license and have the MMSI 
> issued by the FCC so that it meets the international treaty requirements.
> 
> I thought someone out there would know if I am correct or incorrect.
> 
> Also where I might find the correct forms on the FCC website, if they are 
> needed.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> Glenn Gambel
> C 36
> Wind N Spirits
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Stus-List AIS and MMSI as well as marine radio use in Canada

[Glenn Gambel via CnC-List]

 If a boat crosses from the United States in to Canada and stops at a 
Canadian port, must the vessel (sailboat) have a ships station license 
from the FCC?  I believe the answer is yes.  Also, if the vessel has AIS 
and MMSI, I believe that is necessary to have a ship station license and 
have the MMSI issued by the FCC so that it meets the international 
treaty requirements.


I thought someone out there would know if I am correct or incorrect.

Also where I might find the correct forms on the FCC website, if they 
are needed.


Thanks in advance
Glenn Gambel
C 36
Wind N Spirits___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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