Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[Gary Nylander via CnC-List]

I use the spinnaker twings. The blocks at the end are  of the opening variety, 
so all I have to do is open them, snap them around the jib sheet and tune 
accordingly – outside the lifelines. I open the gate to run the sheet back 
aboard. On a 30-1, it really helps – wide boat.

 

Gary

 

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Wade Glew via 
CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 12:24 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Wade Glew 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

 

Got it. Makes sense as I visualize the scene. Thanks

Wade 

 

On Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 20:34 Jim Watts via CnC-List, mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Yes. The geometry doesn't work unless the sheet is led underneath the lifelines 
too. Easier to use a second sheet led through a block on the toerail.  

 

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

 

 

On Wed, 21 Aug 2019 at 15:43, Wade Glew via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

good pic John; thanks.   Is there a reason the twing line can't be attached 
outside the lifeline?

Wade

Oh Boy, C&C 33 MK II

 

On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 11:09 AM Jim Watts via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

I use a simple twing setup...easy to attach, easy to trim, cheap. Up to the 
point where you need to rig a second sheet outboard of the lifelines, anyhow. 

https://i.imgur.com/EwjDofL.jpg

 

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

 

 

On Wed, 21 Aug 2019 at 09:02, Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

John:

 

Yes, leave the jib sheet attached.  Also, if you don’t like the position 
you get attaching the barber hauler line to the clew, you can also attach it to 
the jib sheet itself to deflect it.

 

 

 

From: John Conklin via CnC-List <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>  

Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 11:30 AM

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>  

Cc: John Conklin <mailto:jconk...@hotmail.com>  

Subject: Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

 

All makes sense  

Based on replies Plan is to attach snatch block to toe rail mast area have the 
sheet run to and tied off at my extra winch on one end thru block and clipped 
off to upper lifeline tensioned to not flip around 

When reaching will attach this second line to clew  (leaving jib sheet 
attached??) and this should move clew outward the open the slot ! 

Let try it !! 

 

Thanks all!


John Conklin 

S/V Halcyon

S/V Heartbeat

www.flirtingwithfire.com <http://www.flirtingwithfire.com> 

 


 

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Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[Wade Glew via CnC-List]

Got it. Makes sense as I visualize the scene. Thanks
Wade

On Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 20:34 Jim Watts via CnC-List, 
wrote:

> Yes. The geometry doesn't work unless the sheet is led underneath the
> lifelines too. Easier to use a second sheet led through a block on the
> toerail.
>
> Jim Watts
> Paradigm Shift
> C&C 35 Mk III
> Victoria, BC
>
>
> On Wed, 21 Aug 2019 at 15:43, Wade Glew via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> good pic John; thanks.   Is there a reason the twing line can't be
>> attached outside the lifeline?
>> Wade
>> Oh Boy, C&C 33 MK II
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 11:09 AM Jim Watts via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I use a simple twing setup...easy to attach, easy to trim, cheap. Up to
>>> the point where you need to rig a second sheet outboard of the lifelines,
>>> anyhow.
>>> https://i.imgur.com/EwjDofL.jpg
>>>
>>> Jim Watts
>>> Paradigm Shift
>>> C&C 35 Mk III
>>> Victoria, BC
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 21 Aug 2019 at 09:02, Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> John:
>>>>
>>>> Yes, leave the jib sheet attached.  Also, if you don’t like the
>>>> position you get attaching the barber hauler line to the clew, you can also
>>>> attach it to the jib sheet itself to deflect it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* John Conklin via CnC-List 
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 21, 2019 11:30 AM
>>>> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>>> *Cc:* John Conklin 
>>>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles
>>>>
>>>> All makes sense
>>>> Based on replies Plan is to attach snatch block to toe rail mast area
>>>> have the sheet run to and tied off at my extra winch on one end thru block
>>>> and clipped off to upper lifeline tensioned to not flip around
>>>> When reaching will attach this second line to clew  (leaving jib sheet
>>>> attached??) and this should move clew outward the open the slot !
>>>> Let try it !!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks all!
>>>>
>>>> John Conklin
>>>> S/V Halcyon
>>>> S/V Heartbeat
>>>> www.flirtingwithfire.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>>
>>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>>>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>>>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>
>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>>
>>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> ___
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> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
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Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[Jim Watts via CnC-List]

Yes. The geometry doesn't work unless the sheet is led underneath the
lifelines too. Easier to use a second sheet led through a block on the
toerail.

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC


On Wed, 21 Aug 2019 at 15:43, Wade Glew via CnC-List 
wrote:

> good pic John; thanks.   Is there a reason the twing line can't be
> attached outside the lifeline?
> Wade
> Oh Boy, C&C 33 MK II
>
> On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 11:09 AM Jim Watts via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> I use a simple twing setup...easy to attach, easy to trim, cheap. Up to
>> the point where you need to rig a second sheet outboard of the lifelines,
>> anyhow.
>> https://i.imgur.com/EwjDofL.jpg
>>
>> Jim Watts
>> Paradigm Shift
>> C&C 35 Mk III
>> Victoria, BC
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 21 Aug 2019 at 09:02, Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> John:
>>>
>>> Yes, leave the jib sheet attached.  Also, if you don’t like the
>>> position you get attaching the barber hauler line to the clew, you can also
>>> attach it to the jib sheet itself to deflect it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* John Conklin via CnC-List 
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 21, 2019 11:30 AM
>>> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> *Cc:* John Conklin 
>>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles
>>>
>>> All makes sense
>>> Based on replies Plan is to attach snatch block to toe rail mast area
>>> have the sheet run to and tied off at my extra winch on one end thru block
>>> and clipped off to upper lifeline tensioned to not flip around
>>> When reaching will attach this second line to clew  (leaving jib sheet
>>> attached??) and this should move clew outward the open the slot !
>>> Let try it !!
>>>
>>> Thanks all!
>>>
>>> John Conklin
>>> S/V Halcyon
>>> S/V Heartbeat
>>> www.flirtingwithfire.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>>
>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>>
>>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[Wade Glew via CnC-List]

good pic John; thanks.   Is there a reason the twing line can't be attached
outside the lifeline?
Wade
Oh Boy, C&C 33 MK II

On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 11:09 AM Jim Watts via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I use a simple twing setup...easy to attach, easy to trim, cheap. Up to
> the point where you need to rig a second sheet outboard of the lifelines,
> anyhow.
> https://i.imgur.com/EwjDofL.jpg
>
> Jim Watts
> Paradigm Shift
> C&C 35 Mk III
> Victoria, BC
>
>
> On Wed, 21 Aug 2019 at 09:02, Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> John:
>>
>> Yes, leave the jib sheet attached.  Also, if you don’t like the
>> position you get attaching the barber hauler line to the clew, you can also
>> attach it to the jib sheet itself to deflect it.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* John Conklin via CnC-List 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 21, 2019 11:30 AM
>> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> *Cc:* John Conklin 
>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles
>>
>> All makes sense
>> Based on replies Plan is to attach snatch block to toe rail mast area
>> have the sheet run to and tied off at my extra winch on one end thru block
>> and clipped off to upper lifeline tensioned to not flip around
>> When reaching will attach this second line to clew  (leaving jib sheet
>> attached??) and this should move clew outward the open the slot !
>> Let try it !!
>>
>> Thanks all!
>>
>> John Conklin
>> S/V Halcyon
>> S/V Heartbeat
>> www.flirtingwithfire.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

Exactly – and you can move the block to wherever you think is most effective.  
Also, if you use this set-up, make sure the carabiner is sufficiently strong (I 
have seen cheap ones distort under load). 

Thanks, Jim.

From: Jim Watts via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 12:08 PM
To: 1 CnC List 
Cc: Jim Watts 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

I use a simple twing setup...easy to attach, easy to trim, cheap. Up to the 
point where you need to rig a second sheet outboard of the lifelines, anyhow. 

https://i.imgur.com/EwjDofL.jpg

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC



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Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[Jim Watts via CnC-List]

I use a simple twing setup...easy to attach, easy to trim, cheap. Up to the
point where you need to rig a second sheet outboard of the lifelines,
anyhow.
https://i.imgur.com/EwjDofL.jpg

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC


On Wed, 21 Aug 2019 at 09:02, Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> John:
>
> Yes, leave the jib sheet attached.  Also, if you don’t like the
> position you get attaching the barber hauler line to the clew, you can also
> attach it to the jib sheet itself to deflect it.
>
>
>
> *From:* John Conklin via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 21, 2019 11:30 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* John Conklin 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles
>
> All makes sense
> Based on replies Plan is to attach snatch block to toe rail mast area have
> the sheet run to and tied off at my extra winch on one end thru block and
> clipped off to upper lifeline tensioned to not flip around
> When reaching will attach this second line to clew  (leaving jib sheet
> attached??) and this should move clew outward the open the slot !
> Let try it !!
>
> Thanks all!
>
> John Conklin
> S/V Halcyon
> S/V Heartbeat
> www.flirtingwithfire.com
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

John:

Yes, leave the jib sheet attached.  Also, if you don’t like the position 
you get attaching the barber hauler line to the clew, you can also attach it to 
the jib sheet itself to deflect it.



From: John Conklin via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 11:30 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: John Conklin 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

All makes sense  
Based on replies Plan is to attach snatch block to toe rail mast area have the 
sheet run to and tied off at my extra winch on one end thru block and clipped 
off to upper lifeline tensioned to not flip around 
When reaching will attach this second line to clew  (leaving jib sheet 
attached??) and this should move clew outward the open the slot ! 
Let try it !! 

Thanks all!

John Conklin 

S/V Halcyon
S/V Heartbeat
www.flirtingwithfire.com


 ___

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Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[John Conklin via CnC-List]

All makes sense
Based on replies Plan is to attach snatch block to toe rail mast area have the 
sheet run to and tied off at my extra winch on one end thru block and clipped 
off to upper lifeline tensioned to not flip around
When reaching will attach this second line to clew  (leaving jib sheet 
attached??) and this should move clew outward the open the slot !
Let try it !!

Thanks all!

John Conklin
S/V Halcyon
S/V Heartbeat
www.flirtingwithfire.com


On Aug 21, 2019, at 9:36 AM, Shawn Wright via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

This sounds like a simple solution to rig up. If anyone has photos of their 
barber hauler or similar setup under use, please share!

Thanks
--
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
S/V Callisto, 1974 C&C 35
https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto


On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 7:28 AM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
I rig barberhaulers also. I attach a pulley on the toerail at the sweet spot, 
with a soft shackle and string up the top of the pulley to the lower lifeline 
so it doesn't flop around. I keep a short 5/16" diameter line for this purpose 
with a carabiner in one end and clip that to the upper lifeline when not in 
use. To engage the barberhauler, we simply clip it onto the clew cringle and 
adjust. We have to unclip the barberhauler before tacking, so the regular sheet 
needs to be tensioned before that, so some crew have complained about it's 
benefit because they have to remember to do that. I may try repositioning the 
pulley back a little and clipping onto the sheet instead.

I sail mostly solo now, so hope to use them as twings for the spinnaker 
sheet/guys. Any advice would be appreciated.

Chuck S Resolute 1990 C&C 34R

On August 21, 2019 at 9:51 AM Jeff Helsdingen via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

Thanks Dennis, that answered some questions. We were trying to figure out who 
or why there were pieces of toe rail there. Partially confusing because a 
previous owner also added job track and a different previous owner had a deck 
job done but didn't remove them. $75, what a deal..

Jeff
Caposhi
C&C 35 mk1 #54

On Tue., Aug. 20, 2019, 7:45 p.m. Dennis C. via CnC-List, < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
First, if you are racing, having the whisker pole on the same side as the boom 
may be prohibited in certain jurisdictions.

Barber hauling is a complicated configuration.  Basically, you are setting a 
triangle using two sheets to change location of the clew of the genoa.  
Generally, "barber haulers" can be set to move the clew inboard or outboard or 
forward (downward).  Inhauls or inhaulers can be used to move the clew inboard 
to decrease the sheeting angles.

Rather than get too deep into all of that, on Touche' we simply use what we 
call the "outboard sheet".  Touche' has an inboard genoa track with line 
adjustable genoa cars, as we steer more off the wind and ease the genoa sheet, 
we move the car forward to keep the leech from twisting off.  Our trigger to 
rig the outboard sheet is when the genoa sheet is eased enough that it begins 
to contact the upper lifeline.  At that point we attach a snatch block to the 
toe rail slightly FORWARD of directly below where the genoa sheet crosses the 
toe rail.

The outboard sheet has a snap shackle which we clip into the clew ring or the 
soft shackle on the clew of the genoa.  The tail is run to a secondary winch.  
We can control the inboard/outboard location of the clew by proportionally 
tensioning the primary sheet and the outboard sheet.  However, more often than 
not, we simply trim exclusively on the outboard sheet.

Our old C&C's like to "breathe".  Opening the slot allows that.  Also, moving 
the lead forward as the sheet is eased keeps the leech from twisting off and 
dumping power.  Touche' loves reaching with the outboard sheet.  In fact, in 
one distance race we lost 1st place by 20 seconds.  In retrospect, I think it's 
because we didn't rig the outboard sheet or move the car forward on a long 
reaching leg.

One thing to keep in mind is that many of the older boats did not come with an 
inboard track.  Touche' had short pieces of toe rail on the deck forward of the 
primary winches.  It was listed as an option on the original order as  "Inside 
fairleads rails" $75.  So, rigging an outboard sheet may simply be returning to 
an original configuration.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 2:49 PM David Knecht via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
I have been reading about Barber Haulers to help with reaching by getting the 
clew further outboard and keeping the leech from twisting off.  I was thinking 
of a snatch block on the toe rail and a line snap shackled to the clew 
attachment point to accomplish this.  However, I have also seen people using 
their whisker pole on the leewa

Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

On our 1990 C&C 34R:  When we sail close hauled the foot of the genoa is 
completely inside the lifelines and sheeted to the very aft end of our genoa 
track positioned on deck next to the cabin sides.  When reaching, the genoa 
needs to be trimmed outside the lifelines and sheeted to the toerail further 
forward.  I keep the usual sheets attached to the sail and add the barberhauler 
using a caribiner to attach it to the sail's clew.  I have been on boats that 
use a SS hook instead or a snap shackle could be used, but caribiners cost 20% 
of those and clip onto the lifelines to keep ready for use.


To use, simply trim the sails as normal, then unclip the barberhauler caribiner 
from the lifeline and clip onto the clew of the genoa and cleat the other end, 
then ease tension on the regular sheet until the barberhauler positions the 
genoa where the telltails are flowing how you like them, the slot is open and 
the main is not being backwinded.




Chuck S


> On August 20, 2019 at 9:45 PM Shawn Wright via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dennis, thanks for the detailed info. I'm trying to understand picture it 
> all, but am unclear on which sheet goes through the snatch block on the rail? 
> I have genoa tracks on the side deck but they are used for the inner 95% jib. 
> The outer genoa uses blocks on the toerail, which I haven't tried relocating, 
> although I do have a few snatch blocks I could add forward to try to 
> approximate the effect you're describing (I think). 
> How do you attach the outboard sheet to the clew once on a reach? Do you 
> have to luff up to do this? With our current arrangement, I know that I am 
> losing a lot of power with the genoa, but am not always sure how to fix it, 
> especially single handed. I suspect the genoa blocks are too far back on the 
> toerail for anything except close reach to close hauled, and when sheeted in 
> tight, they pull the lifelines inward. 
> 
> --
> Shawn Wright
> shawngwri...@gmail.com mailto:shawngwri...@gmail.com
> S/V Callisto, 1974 C&C 35
> https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

This sounds like a simple solution to rig up. If anyone has photos of their
barber hauler or similar setup under use, please share!

Thanks
--
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
S/V Callisto, 1974 C&C 35
https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto


On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 7:28 AM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I rig barberhaulers also. I attach a pulley on the toerail at the sweet
> spot, with a soft shackle and string up the top of the pulley to the lower
> lifeline so it doesn't flop around. I keep a short 5/16" diameter line for
> this purpose with a carabiner in one end and clip that to the upper
> lifeline when not in use. To engage the barberhauler, we simply clip it
> onto the clew cringle and adjust. We have to unclip the barberhauler before
> tacking, so the regular sheet needs to be tensioned before that, so some
> crew have complained about it's benefit because they have to remember to do
> that. I may try repositioning the pulley back a little and clipping onto
> the sheet instead.
>
> I sail mostly solo now, so hope to use them as twings for the spinnaker
> sheet/guys. Any advice would be appreciated.
>
> Chuck S Resolute 1990 C&C 34R
>
> On August 21, 2019 at 9:51 AM Jeff Helsdingen via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks Dennis, that answered some questions. We were trying to figure out
> who or why there were pieces of toe rail there. Partially confusing because
> a previous owner also added job track and a different previous owner had a
> deck job done but didn't remove them. $75, what a deal..
>
> Jeff
> Caposhi
> C&C 35 mk1 #54
>
> On Tue., Aug. 20, 2019, 7:45 p.m. Dennis C. via CnC-List, <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> First, if you are racing, having the whisker pole on the same side as the
>> boom may be prohibited in certain jurisdictions.
>>
>> Barber hauling is a complicated configuration.  Basically, you are
>> setting a triangle using two sheets to change location of the clew of the
>> genoa.  Generally, "barber haulers" can be set to move the clew inboard or
>> outboard or forward (downward).  Inhauls or inhaulers can be used to move
>> the clew inboard to decrease the sheeting angles.
>>
>> Rather than get too deep into all of that, on Touche' we simply use what
>> we call the "outboard sheet".  Touche' has an inboard genoa track with line
>> adjustable genoa cars, as we steer more off the wind and ease the genoa
>> sheet, we move the car forward to keep the leech from twisting off.  Our
>> trigger to rig the outboard sheet is when the genoa sheet is eased enough
>> that it begins to contact the upper lifeline.  At that point we attach a
>> snatch block to the toe rail slightly FORWARD of directly below where the
>> genoa sheet crosses the toe rail.
>>
>> The outboard sheet has a snap shackle which we clip into the clew ring or
>> the soft shackle on the clew of the genoa.  The tail is run to a secondary
>> winch.  We can control the inboard/outboard location of the clew by
>> proportionally tensioning the primary sheet and the outboard sheet.
>> However, more often than not, we simply trim exclusively on the outboard
>> sheet.
>>
>> Our old C&C's like to "breathe".  Opening the slot allows that.  Also,
>> moving the lead forward as the sheet is eased keeps the leech from twisting
>> off and dumping power.  Touche' loves reaching with the outboard sheet.  In
>> fact, in one distance race we lost 1st place by 20 seconds.  In retrospect,
>> I think it's because we didn't rig the outboard sheet or move the car
>> forward on a long reaching leg.
>>
>> One thing to keep in mind is that many of the older boats did not come
>> with an inboard track.  Touche' had short pieces of toe rail on the deck
>> forward of the primary winches.  It was listed as an option on the original
>> order as  "Inside fairleads rails" $75.  So, rigging an outboard sheet may
>> simply be returning to an original configuration.
>>
>> Dennis C.
>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>> Mandeville, LA
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 2:49 PM David Knecht via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I have been reading about Barber Haulers to help with reaching by
>>> getting the clew further outboard and keeping the leech from twisting off.
>>> I was thinking of a snatch block on the toe rail and a line snap shackled
>>> to the clew attachment point to accomplish this.  However, I have also seen
>>> people using their whisker pole on the leeward side to hold the genoa clew
>>> outboard and up.  Has anyone compared these options?  The pole seems more
>>> of a hassle, but should be more effective.  Dave
>>>
>>> S/V Aries
>>> 1990 C&C 34+
>>> New London, CT
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>>
>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>>> use PayPal to send contribution --https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>>
>>> _

Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

Hi Dennis,

Thanks for the clarification. We do have the aft genoa track similar to
yours, but not the forward track. But since our boat has two foresails in a
solent rig, the inner stay with the 95% jib is sheeted to the genoa track,
and the genoa on the outer stay is sheeted to the toerail with a fixed
block just forward of the winch. When sheeting the genoa in hard, the sheet
contacts the outside of the lifeline, which is one issue. I can resolve
this by running the genoa sheet on the track instead, but haven't tried it
yet. The lead angles to the winches from the genoa track are not great,
although I suppose I could still also run it through the rear block on the
rail. I guess the main issues with moving the genoa sheet position are that
the genoa track is already used by the jib sheets, and I need to decide if
the point of sail will require the sheets inboard or outboard of the
lifelines. There are numbers along the toerail, so at some point, the PO
used snatch blocks I suppose, but the current blocks use regular shackles
so are not easy to move. Maybe I'll post a photo so it's more clear...
Thanks
--
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
S/V Callisto, 1974 C&C 35
https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto


On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 5:36 AM Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Shawn,
>
> It sounds like you don't have a genoa track.  Look at this:
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_sb5TfIENvsb1FWampMNVpnSGM
>
> The short track by the shrouds is our jib track.  That's for our 95% jib.
>
> Further aft is a longer track which is our genoa track for our 125% and
> larger sails.  If you don't have a genoa track then you are only capable of
> rigging your sheet to the toe rail.  If so, then your configuration is what
> we call our outboard sheet.  Hence my comment of returning to an original
> configuration.
>
> Dennis C.
>
> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 8:46 PM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Dennis, thanks for the detailed info. I'm trying to understand picture it
>> all, but am unclear on which sheet goes through the snatch block on the
>> rail? I have genoa tracks on the side deck but they are used for the inner
>> 95% jib. The outer genoa uses blocks on the toerail, which I haven't tried
>> relocating, although I do have a few snatch blocks I could add forward to
>> try to approximate the effect you're describing (I think).
>> How do you attach the outboard sheet to the clew once on a reach? Do you
>> have to luff up to do this? With our current arrangement, I know that I am
>> losing a lot of power with the genoa, but am not always sure how to fix it,
>> especially single handed. I suspect the genoa blocks are too far back on
>> the toerail for anything except close reach to close hauled, and when
>> sheeted in tight, they pull the lifelines inward.
>>
>> --
>> Shawn Wright
>> shawngwri...@gmail.com
>> S/V Callisto, 1974 C&C 35
>> https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 4:45 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> First, if you are racing, having the whisker pole on the same side as
>>> the boom may be prohibited in certain jurisdictions.
>>>
>>> Barber hauling is a complicated configuration.  Basically, you are
>>> setting a triangle using two sheets to change location of the clew of the
>>> genoa.  Generally, "barber haulers" can be set to move the clew inboard or
>>> outboard or forward (downward).  Inhauls or inhaulers can be used to move
>>> the clew inboard to decrease the sheeting angles.
>>>
>>> Rather than get too deep into all of that, on Touche' we simply use what
>>> we call the "outboard sheet".  Touche' has an inboard genoa track with line
>>> adjustable genoa cars, as we steer more off the wind and ease the genoa
>>> sheet, we move the car forward to keep the leech from twisting off.  Our
>>> trigger to rig the outboard sheet is when the genoa sheet is eased enough
>>> that it begins to contact the upper lifeline.  At that point we attach a
>>> snatch block to the toe rail slightly FORWARD of directly below where the
>>> genoa sheet crosses the toe rail.
>>>
>>> The outboard sheet has a snap shackle which we clip into the clew ring
>>> or the soft shackle on the clew of the genoa.  The tail is run to a
>>> secondary winch.  We can control the inboard/outboard location of the clew
>>> by proportionally tensioning the primary sheet and the outboard sheet.
>>> However, more often than not, we simply trim exclusively on the outboard
>>> sheet.
>>>
>>> Our old C&C's like to "breathe".  Opening the slot allows that.  Also,
>>> moving the lead forward as the sheet is eased keeps the leech from twisting
>>> off and dumping power.  Touche' loves reaching with the outboard sheet.  In
>>> fact, in one distance race we lost 1st place by 20 seconds.  In retrospect,
>>> I think it's because we didn't rig the outboard sheet or move the car
>>> forward on a long reaching leg.
>>>
>>> One thing to keep in

Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

I rig barberhaulers also. I attach a pulley on the toerail at the sweet spot, 
with a soft shackle and string up the top of the pulley to the lower lifeline 
so it doesn't flop around. I keep a short 5/16" diameter line for this purpose 
with a carabiner in one end and clip that to the upper lifeline when not in 
use. To engage the barberhauler, we simply clip it onto the clew cringle and 
adjust. We have to unclip the barberhauler before tacking, so the regular sheet 
needs to be tensioned before that, so some crew have complained about it's 
benefit because they have to remember to do that. I may try repositioning the 
pulley back a little and clipping onto the sheet instead.

I sail mostly solo now, so hope to use them as twings for the spinnaker 
sheet/guys. Any advice would be appreciated.

Chuck S Resolute 1990 C&C 34R


> On August 21, 2019 at 9:51 AM Jeff Helsdingen via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Dennis, that answered some questions. We were trying to figure out 
> who or why there were pieces of toe rail there. Partially confusing because a 
> previous owner also added job track and a different previous owner had a deck 
> job done but didn't remove them. $75, what a deal..
> 
> Jeff
> Caposhi
> C&C 35 mk1 #54
> 
> On Tue., Aug. 20, 2019, 7:45 p.m. Dennis C. via CnC-List, < 
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> 
> > > First, if you are racing, having the whisker pole on the 
> same side as the boom may be prohibited in certain jurisdictions.
> > 
> > Barber hauling is a complicated configuration.  Basically, you are 
> > setting a triangle using two sheets to change location of the clew of the 
> > genoa.  Generally, "barber haulers" can be set to move the clew inboard or 
> > outboard or forward (downward).  Inhauls or inhaulers can be used to move 
> > the clew inboard to decrease the sheeting angles.
> > 
> > Rather than get too deep into all of that, on Touche' we simply use 
> > what we call the "outboard sheet".  Touche' has an inboard genoa track with 
> > line adjustable genoa cars, as we steer more off the wind and ease the 
> > genoa sheet, we move the car forward to keep the leech from twisting off.  
> > Our trigger to rig the outboard sheet is when the genoa sheet is eased 
> > enough that it begins to contact the upper lifeline.  At that point we 
> > attach a snatch block to the toe rail slightly FORWARD of directly below 
> > where the genoa sheet crosses the toe rail.  
> > 
> > The outboard sheet has a snap shackle which we clip into the clew 
> > ring or the soft shackle on the clew of the genoa.  The tail is run to a 
> > secondary winch.  We can control the inboard/outboard location of the clew 
> > by proportionally tensioning the primary sheet and the outboard sheet.  
> > However, more often than not, we simply trim exclusively on the outboard 
> > sheet.
> > 
> > Our old C&C's like to "breathe".  Opening the slot allows that.  
> > Also, moving the lead forward as the sheet is eased keeps the leech from 
> > twisting off and dumping power.  Touche' loves reaching with the outboard 
> > sheet.  In fact, in one distance race we lost 1st place by 20 seconds.  In 
> > retrospect, I think it's because we didn't rig the outboard sheet or move 
> > the car forward on a long reaching leg.
> > 
> > One thing to keep in mind is that many of the older boats did not 
> > come with an inboard track.  Touche' had short pieces of toe rail on the 
> > deck forward of the primary winches.  It was listed as an option on the 
> > original order as  "Inside fairleads rails" $75.  So, rigging an outboard 
> > sheet may simply be returning to an original configuration.
> > 
> > Dennis C.
> > Touche' 35-1 #83
> > Mandeville, LA
> > 
> > On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 2:49 PM David Knecht via CnC-List < 
> > cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> > 
> > > > > I have been reading about Barber Haulers to 
> > help with reaching by getting the clew further outboard and keeping the 
> > leech from twisting off.  I was thinking of a snatch block on the toe rail 
> > and a line snap shackled to the clew attachment point to accomplish this.  
> > However, I have also seen people using their whisker pole on the leeward 
> > side to hold the genoa clew outboard and up.  Has anyone compared these 
> > options?  The pole seems more of a hassle, but should be more effective.  
> > Dave
> > > 
> > > S/V Aries
> > > 1990 C&C 34+
> > > New London, CT
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ___
> > > 
> > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your 
> > > contributions.  Each and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want 
> > > to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution --
> > > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> > > 
> >

Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[Jeff Helsdingen via CnC-List]

Thanks Dennis, that answered some questions. We were trying to figure out
who or why there were pieces of toe rail there. Partially confusing because
a previous owner also added job track and a different previous owner had a
deck job done but didn't remove them. $75, what a deal..

Jeff
Caposhi
C&C 35 mk1 #54

On Tue., Aug. 20, 2019, 7:45 p.m. Dennis C. via CnC-List, <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> First, if you are racing, having the whisker pole on the same side as the
> boom may be prohibited in certain jurisdictions.
>
> Barber hauling is a complicated configuration.  Basically, you are setting
> a triangle using two sheets to change location of the clew of the genoa.
> Generally, "barber haulers" can be set to move the clew inboard or outboard
> or forward (downward).  Inhauls or inhaulers can be used to move the clew
> inboard to decrease the sheeting angles.
>
> Rather than get too deep into all of that, on Touche' we simply use what
> we call the "outboard sheet".  Touche' has an inboard genoa track with line
> adjustable genoa cars, as we steer more off the wind and ease the genoa
> sheet, we move the car forward to keep the leech from twisting off.  Our
> trigger to rig the outboard sheet is when the genoa sheet is eased enough
> that it begins to contact the upper lifeline.  At that point we attach a
> snatch block to the toe rail slightly FORWARD of directly below where the
> genoa sheet crosses the toe rail.
>
> The outboard sheet has a snap shackle which we clip into the clew ring or
> the soft shackle on the clew of the genoa.  The tail is run to a secondary
> winch.  We can control the inboard/outboard location of the clew by
> proportionally tensioning the primary sheet and the outboard sheet.
> However, more often than not, we simply trim exclusively on the outboard
> sheet.
>
> Our old C&C's like to "breathe".  Opening the slot allows that.  Also,
> moving the lead forward as the sheet is eased keeps the leech from twisting
> off and dumping power.  Touche' loves reaching with the outboard sheet.  In
> fact, in one distance race we lost 1st place by 20 seconds.  In retrospect,
> I think it's because we didn't rig the outboard sheet or move the car
> forward on a long reaching leg.
>
> One thing to keep in mind is that many of the older boats did not come
> with an inboard track.  Touche' had short pieces of toe rail on the deck
> forward of the primary winches.  It was listed as an option on the original
> order as  "Inside fairleads rails" $75.  So, rigging an outboard sheet may
> simply be returning to an original configuration.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 2:49 PM David Knecht via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> I have been reading about Barber Haulers to help with reaching by getting
>> the clew further outboard and keeping the leech from twisting off.  I was
>> thinking of a snatch block on the toe rail and a line snap shackled to the
>> clew attachment point to accomplish this.  However, I have also seen people
>> using their whisker pole on the leeward side to hold the genoa clew
>> outboard and up.  Has anyone compared these options?  The pole seems more
>> of a hassle, but should be more effective.  Dave
>>
>> S/V Aries
>> 1990 C&C 34+
>> New London, CT
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Shawn,

It sounds like you don't have a genoa track.  Look at this:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_sb5TfIENvsb1FWampMNVpnSGM

The short track by the shrouds is our jib track.  That's for our 95% jib.

Further aft is a longer track which is our genoa track for our 125% and
larger sails.  If you don't have a genoa track then you are only capable of
rigging your sheet to the toe rail.  If so, then your configuration is what
we call our outboard sheet.  Hence my comment of returning to an original
configuration.

Dennis C.

On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 8:46 PM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Dennis, thanks for the detailed info. I'm trying to understand picture it
> all, but am unclear on which sheet goes through the snatch block on the
> rail? I have genoa tracks on the side deck but they are used for the inner
> 95% jib. The outer genoa uses blocks on the toerail, which I haven't tried
> relocating, although I do have a few snatch blocks I could add forward to
> try to approximate the effect you're describing (I think).
> How do you attach the outboard sheet to the clew once on a reach? Do you
> have to luff up to do this? With our current arrangement, I know that I am
> losing a lot of power with the genoa, but am not always sure how to fix it,
> especially single handed. I suspect the genoa blocks are too far back on
> the toerail for anything except close reach to close hauled, and when
> sheeted in tight, they pull the lifelines inward.
>
> --
> Shawn Wright
> shawngwri...@gmail.com
> S/V Callisto, 1974 C&C 35
> https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 4:45 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> First, if you are racing, having the whisker pole on the same side as the
>> boom may be prohibited in certain jurisdictions.
>>
>> Barber hauling is a complicated configuration.  Basically, you are
>> setting a triangle using two sheets to change location of the clew of the
>> genoa.  Generally, "barber haulers" can be set to move the clew inboard or
>> outboard or forward (downward).  Inhauls or inhaulers can be used to move
>> the clew inboard to decrease the sheeting angles.
>>
>> Rather than get too deep into all of that, on Touche' we simply use what
>> we call the "outboard sheet".  Touche' has an inboard genoa track with line
>> adjustable genoa cars, as we steer more off the wind and ease the genoa
>> sheet, we move the car forward to keep the leech from twisting off.  Our
>> trigger to rig the outboard sheet is when the genoa sheet is eased enough
>> that it begins to contact the upper lifeline.  At that point we attach a
>> snatch block to the toe rail slightly FORWARD of directly below where the
>> genoa sheet crosses the toe rail.
>>
>> The outboard sheet has a snap shackle which we clip into the clew ring or
>> the soft shackle on the clew of the genoa.  The tail is run to a secondary
>> winch.  We can control the inboard/outboard location of the clew by
>> proportionally tensioning the primary sheet and the outboard sheet.
>> However, more often than not, we simply trim exclusively on the outboard
>> sheet.
>>
>> Our old C&C's like to "breathe".  Opening the slot allows that.  Also,
>> moving the lead forward as the sheet is eased keeps the leech from twisting
>> off and dumping power.  Touche' loves reaching with the outboard sheet.  In
>> fact, in one distance race we lost 1st place by 20 seconds.  In retrospect,
>> I think it's because we didn't rig the outboard sheet or move the car
>> forward on a long reaching leg.
>>
>> One thing to keep in mind is that many of the older boats did not come
>> with an inboard track.  Touche' had short pieces of toe rail on the deck
>> forward of the primary winches.  It was listed as an option on the original
>> order as  "Inside fairleads rails" $75.  So, rigging an outboard sheet may
>> simply be returning to an original configuration.
>>
>> Dennis C.
>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>> Mandeville, LA
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 2:49 PM David Knecht via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I have been reading about Barber Haulers to help with reaching by
>>> getting the clew further outboard and keeping the leech from twisting off.
>>> I was thinking of a snatch block on the toe rail and a line snap shackled
>>> to the clew attachment point to accomplish this.  However, I have also seen
>>> people using their whisker pole on the leeward side to hold the genoa clew
>>> outboard and up.  Has anyone compared these options?  The pole seems more
>>> of a hassle, but should be more effective.  Dave
>>>
>>> S/V Aries
>>> 1990 C&C 34+
>>> New London, CT
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>>
>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>>
>>> _

Re: Stus-List barber haulers and whisker poles

[Wade Glew via CnC-List]

Can I ask Barry, is the barber hauler sheet on the Genoa  Lew led to the
snap shackle from outside the lifelines or inside?
Wade
Oh Boy C&C 33 MKII

On Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 15:30 Barry Lenoble via CnC-List, <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hey,
>
> Generally, the whisker pole is used if you are sailing downwind and the
> barber hauler if you are reaching.
>
> On my boat, if I am doing a windward / leeward race, we will have genoa and
> mainsail in tight for upwind work. Once we round the mark and head downwind
> we will run wing and wing with the whisker pole holding out the genoa. We
> try to have the main on the port side of the boat and the genoa on the
> starboard side so we are on starboard and have rights over port tack
> boats.
>
> If I'm sailing on a broad reach, anything from 50 degrees to 100 degrees
> apparent wind, I will use a barber hauler. It's just an old jib sheet and
> snap shackle. The shackle is connected to the toe rail and the line tied to
> the clew of the sail. Then I take in the barber hauler and ease off the
> sheet. This allows the clew to move outwards but not up. Depending on the
> wind angle the shackle will be moved forward or aft.
>
> On a reach you can sail significantly faster if the sheet lead is in the
> right position. Use an old block and an old sheet and experiment. You will
> quickly see the benefits.
>
> Good luck,
> Barry
>
>
> Barry Lenoble
> leno...@optonline.net
> Deep Blue C, C&C 110
> Mt. Sinai, NY
>
>
>
> From: David Knecht 
> To: CnC CnC discussion list 
> I have been reading about Barber Haulers to help with reaching by getting
> the clew further outboard and keeping the leech from twisting off.  I was
> thinking of a snatch block on the toe rail and a line snap shackled to the
> clew attachment point to accomplish this.  However, I have also seen people
> using their whisker pole on the leeward side to hold the genoa clew
> outboard
> and up.  Has anyone compared these options?  The pole seems more of a
> hassle, but should be more effective.  Dave
>
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

Dennis, thanks for the detailed info. I'm trying to understand picture it
all, but am unclear on which sheet goes through the snatch block on the
rail? I have genoa tracks on the side deck but they are used for the inner
95% jib. The outer genoa uses blocks on the toerail, which I haven't tried
relocating, although I do have a few snatch blocks I could add forward to
try to approximate the effect you're describing (I think).
How do you attach the outboard sheet to the clew once on a reach? Do you
have to luff up to do this? With our current arrangement, I know that I am
losing a lot of power with the genoa, but am not always sure how to fix it,
especially single handed. I suspect the genoa blocks are too far back on
the toerail for anything except close reach to close hauled, and when
sheeted in tight, they pull the lifelines inward.

--
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
S/V Callisto, 1974 C&C 35
https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto


On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 4:45 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> First, if you are racing, having the whisker pole on the same side as the
> boom may be prohibited in certain jurisdictions.
>
> Barber hauling is a complicated configuration.  Basically, you are setting
> a triangle using two sheets to change location of the clew of the genoa.
> Generally, "barber haulers" can be set to move the clew inboard or outboard
> or forward (downward).  Inhauls or inhaulers can be used to move the clew
> inboard to decrease the sheeting angles.
>
> Rather than get too deep into all of that, on Touche' we simply use what
> we call the "outboard sheet".  Touche' has an inboard genoa track with line
> adjustable genoa cars, as we steer more off the wind and ease the genoa
> sheet, we move the car forward to keep the leech from twisting off.  Our
> trigger to rig the outboard sheet is when the genoa sheet is eased enough
> that it begins to contact the upper lifeline.  At that point we attach a
> snatch block to the toe rail slightly FORWARD of directly below where the
> genoa sheet crosses the toe rail.
>
> The outboard sheet has a snap shackle which we clip into the clew ring or
> the soft shackle on the clew of the genoa.  The tail is run to a secondary
> winch.  We can control the inboard/outboard location of the clew by
> proportionally tensioning the primary sheet and the outboard sheet.
> However, more often than not, we simply trim exclusively on the outboard
> sheet.
>
> Our old C&C's like to "breathe".  Opening the slot allows that.  Also,
> moving the lead forward as the sheet is eased keeps the leech from twisting
> off and dumping power.  Touche' loves reaching with the outboard sheet.  In
> fact, in one distance race we lost 1st place by 20 seconds.  In retrospect,
> I think it's because we didn't rig the outboard sheet or move the car
> forward on a long reaching leg.
>
> One thing to keep in mind is that many of the older boats did not come
> with an inboard track.  Touche' had short pieces of toe rail on the deck
> forward of the primary winches.  It was listed as an option on the original
> order as  "Inside fairleads rails" $75.  So, rigging an outboard sheet may
> simply be returning to an original configuration.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 2:49 PM David Knecht via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> I have been reading about Barber Haulers to help with reaching by getting
>> the clew further outboard and keeping the leech from twisting off.  I was
>> thinking of a snatch block on the toe rail and a line snap shackled to the
>> clew attachment point to accomplish this.  However, I have also seen people
>> using their whisker pole on the leeward side to hold the genoa clew
>> outboard and up.  Has anyone compared these options?  The pole seems more
>> of a hassle, but should be more effective.  Dave
>>
>> S/V Aries
>> 1990 C&C 34+
>> New London, CT
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

First, if you are racing, having the whisker pole on the same side as the
boom may be prohibited in certain jurisdictions.

Barber hauling is a complicated configuration.  Basically, you are setting
a triangle using two sheets to change location of the clew of the genoa.
Generally, "barber haulers" can be set to move the clew inboard or outboard
or forward (downward).  Inhauls or inhaulers can be used to move the clew
inboard to decrease the sheeting angles.

Rather than get too deep into all of that, on Touche' we simply use what we
call the "outboard sheet".  Touche' has an inboard genoa track with line
adjustable genoa cars, as we steer more off the wind and ease the genoa
sheet, we move the car forward to keep the leech from twisting off.  Our
trigger to rig the outboard sheet is when the genoa sheet is eased enough
that it begins to contact the upper lifeline.  At that point we attach a
snatch block to the toe rail slightly FORWARD of directly below where the
genoa sheet crosses the toe rail.

The outboard sheet has a snap shackle which we clip into the clew ring or
the soft shackle on the clew of the genoa.  The tail is run to a secondary
winch.  We can control the inboard/outboard location of the clew by
proportionally tensioning the primary sheet and the outboard sheet.
However, more often than not, we simply trim exclusively on the outboard
sheet.

Our old C&C's like to "breathe".  Opening the slot allows that.  Also,
moving the lead forward as the sheet is eased keeps the leech from twisting
off and dumping power.  Touche' loves reaching with the outboard sheet.  In
fact, in one distance race we lost 1st place by 20 seconds.  In retrospect,
I think it's because we didn't rig the outboard sheet or move the car
forward on a long reaching leg.

One thing to keep in mind is that many of the older boats did not come with
an inboard track.  Touche' had short pieces of toe rail on the deck forward
of the primary winches.  It was listed as an option on the original order
as  "Inside fairleads rails" $75.  So, rigging an outboard sheet may simply
be returning to an original configuration.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 2:49 PM David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I have been reading about Barber Haulers to help with reaching by getting
> the clew further outboard and keeping the leech from twisting off.  I was
> thinking of a snatch block on the toe rail and a line snap shackled to the
> clew attachment point to accomplish this.  However, I have also seen people
> using their whisker pole on the leeward side to hold the genoa clew
> outboard and up.  Has anyone compared these options?  The pole seems more
> of a hassle, but should be more effective.  Dave
>
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List barber haulers and whisker poles

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

Thanks for this description of a barber hauler - I will give this a try, as
reaching with the big genoa in lighter air has proven a challenge at times.
--
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
S/V Callisto, 1974 C&C 35
https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto


On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 1:30 PM Barry Lenoble via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hey,
>
> Generally, the whisker pole is used if you are sailing downwind and the
> barber hauler if you are reaching.
>
> On my boat, if I am doing a windward / leeward race, we will have genoa and
> mainsail in tight for upwind work. Once we round the mark and head downwind
> we will run wing and wing with the whisker pole holding out the genoa. We
> try to have the main on the port side of the boat and the genoa on the
> starboard side so we are on starboard and have rights over port tack
> boats.
>
> If I'm sailing on a broad reach, anything from 50 degrees to 100 degrees
> apparent wind, I will use a barber hauler. It's just an old jib sheet and
> snap shackle. The shackle is connected to the toe rail and the line tied to
> the clew of the sail. Then I take in the barber hauler and ease off the
> sheet. This allows the clew to move outwards but not up. Depending on the
> wind angle the shackle will be moved forward or aft.
>
> On a reach you can sail significantly faster if the sheet lead is in the
> right position. Use an old block and an old sheet and experiment. You will
> quickly see the benefits.
>
> Good luck,
> Barry
>
>
> Barry Lenoble
> leno...@optonline.net
> Deep Blue C, C&C 110
> Mt. Sinai, NY
>
>
>
> From: David Knecht 
> To: CnC CnC discussion list 
> I have been reading about Barber Haulers to help with reaching by getting
> the clew further outboard and keeping the leech from twisting off.  I was
> thinking of a snatch block on the toe rail and a line snap shackled to the
> clew attachment point to accomplish this.  However, I have also seen people
> using their whisker pole on the leeward side to hold the genoa clew
> outboard
> and up.  Has anyone compared these options?  The pole seems more of a
> hassle, but should be more effective.  Dave
>
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[Gary Nylander via CnC-List]

We use the spinnaker twing also. Opens up the slot nicely.

Gary

30-1

 

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Joel Aronson via 
CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 4:13 PM
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Joel Aronson 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

 

If you have a twing for your chute you can also try that instead of a snatch 
block.  With a snatch block we use the lazy sheet to run through the block and 
then switch sheets.

 

Joel

 

On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 3:54 PM Andrew Burton via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Dave, here’s an article with pic I wrote for Cruising world. I only get the 
pole out to go wing and wing.

Andy

Andrew Burton

139 Tuckerman Ave

Middletown, RI 

USA02842

 

www.burtonsailing.com <http://www.burtonsailing.com> 

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/

+401 965-5260


On Aug 20, 2019, at 15:48, David Knecht via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

I have been reading about Barber Haulers to help with reaching by getting the 
clew further outboard and keeping the leech from twisting off.  I was thinking 
of a snatch block on the toe rail and a line snap shackled to the clew 
attachment point to accomplish this.  However, I have also seen people using 
their whisker pole on the leeward side to hold the genoa clew outboard and up.  
Has anyone compared these options?  The pole seems more of a hassle, but should 
be more effective.  Dave

 

S/V Aries

1990 C&C 34+

New London, CT


 

 

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___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray




 

-- 

Joel 
301 541 8551

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Stus-List barber haulers and whisker poles

[Barry Lenoble via CnC-List]

Hey,

Generally, the whisker pole is used if you are sailing downwind and the
barber hauler if you are reaching.

On my boat, if I am doing a windward / leeward race, we will have genoa and
mainsail in tight for upwind work. Once we round the mark and head downwind
we will run wing and wing with the whisker pole holding out the genoa. We
try to have the main on the port side of the boat and the genoa on the
starboard side so we are on starboard and have rights over port tack boats. 

If I'm sailing on a broad reach, anything from 50 degrees to 100 degrees
apparent wind, I will use a barber hauler. It's just an old jib sheet and
snap shackle. The shackle is connected to the toe rail and the line tied to
the clew of the sail. Then I take in the barber hauler and ease off the
sheet. This allows the clew to move outwards but not up. Depending on the
wind angle the shackle will be moved forward or aft. 

On a reach you can sail significantly faster if the sheet lead is in the
right position. Use an old block and an old sheet and experiment. You will
quickly see the benefits.

Good luck,
Barry


Barry Lenoble
leno...@optonline.net
Deep Blue C, C&C 110
Mt. Sinai, NY



From: David Knecht 
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
I have been reading about Barber Haulers to help with reaching by getting
the clew further outboard and keeping the leech from twisting off.  I was
thinking of a snatch block on the toe rail and a line snap shackled to the
clew attachment point to accomplish this.  However, I have also seen people
using their whisker pole on the leeward side to hold the genoa clew outboard
and up.  Has anyone compared these options?  The pole seems more of a
hassle, but should be more effective.  Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT


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Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

I also only use the whisker pole for wing and wing.  You can be creative with 
configuring a barber hauler using various things on board.

From: Andrew Burton via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 3:53 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Andrew Burton 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

Dave, here’s an article with pic I wrote for Cruising world. I only get the 
pole out to go wing and wing. 
Andy


Andrew Burton 
139 Tuckerman Ave
Middletown, RI 
USA02842

www.burtonsailing.com
http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ 
+401 965-5260

On Aug 20, 2019, at 15:48, David Knecht via CnC-List  
wrote:


  I have been reading about Barber Haulers to help with reaching by getting the 
clew further outboard and keeping the leech from twisting off.  I was thinking 
of a snatch block on the toe rail and a line snap shackled to the clew 
attachment point to accomplish this.  However, I have also seen people using 
their whisker pole on the leeward side to hold the genoa clew outboard and up.  
Has anyone compared these options?  The pole seems more of a hassle, but should 
be more effective.  Dave 

  S/V Aries
  1990 C&C 34+
  New London, CT

   

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  Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray





___

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Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

If you have a twing for your chute you can also try that instead of a
snatch block.  With a snatch block we use the lazy sheet to run through the
block and then switch sheets.

Joel

On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 3:54 PM Andrew Burton via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Dave, here’s an article with pic I wrote for Cruising world. I only get
> the pole out to go wing and wing.
> Andy
>
> Andrew Burton
> 139 Tuckerman Ave
> Middletown, RI
> USA02842
>
> www.burtonsailing.com
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> +401 965-5260
>
> On Aug 20, 2019, at 15:48, David Knecht via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> I have been reading about Barber Haulers to help with reaching by getting
> the clew further outboard and keeping the leech from twisting off.  I was
> thinking of a snatch block on the toe rail and a line snap shackled to the
> clew attachment point to accomplish this.  However, I have also seen people
> using their whisker pole on the leeward side to hold the genoa clew
> outboard and up.  Has anyone compared these options?  The pole seems more
> of a hassle, but should be more effective.  Dave
>
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
>
> 
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>

-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[Andrew Burton via CnC-List]

Dave, here’s an article with pic I wrote for Cruising world. I only get the 
pole out to go wing and wing.
Andy

Andrew Burton
139 Tuckerman Ave
Middletown, RI 
USA02842

www.burtonsailing.com
http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

> On Aug 20, 2019, at 15:48, David Knecht via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> I have been reading about Barber Haulers to help with reaching by getting the 
> clew further outboard and keeping the leech from twisting off.  I was 
> thinking of a snatch block on the toe rail and a line snap shackled to the 
> clew attachment point to accomplish this.  However, I have also seen people 
> using their whisker pole on the leeward side to hold the genoa clew outboard 
> and up.  Has anyone compared these options?  The pole seems more of a hassle, 
> but should be more effective.  Dave
> 
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
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Stus-List Barber haulers and whisker poles

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

I have been reading about Barber Haulers to help with reaching by getting the 
clew further outboard and keeping the leech from twisting off.  I was thinking 
of a snatch block on the toe rail and a line snap shackled to the clew 
attachment point to accomplish this.  However, I have also seen people using 
their whisker pole on the leeward side to hold the genoa clew outboard and up.  
Has anyone compared these options?  The pole seems more of a hassle, but should 
be more effective.  Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT



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