Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[allen via CnC-List]

Thanks Gary. I'll give it a try

Allen


From: Gary Russell via CnC-List 
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2015 4:57 PM
To: C List 
Cc: Gary Russell 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)


Hi Allen, 
 With the grey Plexiglas, the black looks very nice.  I can't imagine using 
white, personally.  There are two shades of gray (2064 and 2074).  I chose the 
darker color (2074) and really like it.


Gary


~~~_/)~~




On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 2:57 PM, allen via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
wrote:

  Gary,

  After my acrylic windows were bonded to the cabin sides, they were caulked 
with some kind of white material that looked great for the first couple of 
weeks, then started to bleed down the acrylic face of the window.  Now I can 
see a little gully between the horizontal side of the acrylic and the cabin 
fiberglass.  I was looking for something white and more persistent, but maybe 
black would be good.

  Allen


  From: Gary Russell via CnC-List 
  Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2015 7:51 PM
  To: C List 
  Cc: Gary Russell 
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)


  Allen, 
   If I understand your question, I used Dow Corning 795 Black silicone.
  Gary


  ~~~_/)~~




  On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 7:46 PM, allen via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
wrote:

What did you use for caulking to protect the bond?  My caulking is coming 
undone.

Allen Miles
s/v Septima
C 30-2
Hampton, VA


From: Andrew Burton via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2015 9:26 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Andrew Burton 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)


I have templates for the C 40 windows if anyone needs them. Actually, 
just a set of old windows the PO thoughtfully passed on to me.


Andy

C 40

Peregrine



On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 9:17 AM, Pete Shelquist via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

  Just an observation; The VHB tape seems like a more simple installation.  
However, I’m curious if Plexus is evil because it’s too hard and tenacious, yet 
the VHB joined parts won’t come apart, in 5-10 yrs when redoing windows again 
it sounds like we’ll be calling VHB evil.  



  I don’t have a better solution, and question if there’s really a good one 
out there.  It sounds like we need to keep templates of the lenses and deal 
with cutting and filling around the frame when the connection fails.







  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary 
Russell via CnC-List
  Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 7:47 PM
  To: C List
  Cc: Gary Russell
  Subject: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)



  For those who were following my post on bonded windows on High 
Maintenance, I have an update and many thoughts on the project enumerated 
below.  I have successfully installed two windows on the starboard side and 
replaced the acrylic on all the hatches and can say that the project has been 
very successful.  I have terminated my project at this point as the 
temperatures are now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperature of 
greater than 60 degrees F for application.  Here are my observations:



  #1.  Plexus is evil stuff and should not be allowed on a boat.  It is too 
hard and tenacious a bond.  Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a 
different expansion coefficient, fracture of the acrylic is assured.  Removing 
the stuff is impossible without destroying the gel coat underneath.  I tried a 
sharp blade between the fiberglass and the acrylic and all I managed to do was 
rip up the gel coat.



  #2.  Before removing the windows, make a template out of some thin 
plywood (or other material) because the window will (no doubt) come out in 
pieces and you will have nothing as a reference for making the new windows.



  #3.  I finally was successful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router bit 
set to a depth equal to the thickness of the acrylic plus the thickness of the 
Plexus.  I actually used a Roto-Zip instead of a router as it had a smaller 
footprint and was easier to handle.  I free-handed the router to cut through 
the acrylic and into the Plexus.  It’s risky but effective.   Don’t cut all the 
way around the perimeter, but leave tabs to support the window.  Otherwise, the 
window will sink under the weight of the router and you will cut into the gel 
coat.  You can break out the tabs later.



  #4.  Once the windows were out, I used West System epoxy thickened with 
low density filler to repair any damage to the gel coat.  Fortunately, all my 
gel coat damage was limited to the area under the windows.  Once the windows 
are out and the damage is repaired, the rest is fun and easy. 



  #5.   I cut the new window out of 3/8” Plexiglas using a pattern router 
bit (sometimes called a Formica trimmer).  I used masking tape folded in half 
lengthwise to stick the new Plexiglas

Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[allen via CnC-List]

Gary,

After my acrylic windows were bonded to the cabin sides, they were caulked with 
some kind of white material that looked great for the first couple of weeks, 
then started to bleed down the acrylic face of the window.  Now I can see a 
little gully between the horizontal side of the acrylic and the cabin 
fiberglass.  I was looking for something white and more persistent, but maybe 
black would be good.

Allen


From: Gary Russell via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2015 7:51 PM
To: C List 
Cc: Gary Russell 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)


Allen, 
 If I understand your question, I used Dow Corning 795 Black silicone.
Gary


~~~_/)~~




On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 7:46 PM, allen via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
wrote:

  What did you use for caulking to protect the bond?  My caulking is coming 
undone.

  Allen Miles
  s/v Septima
  C 30-2
  Hampton, VA


  From: Andrew Burton via CnC-List 
  Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2015 9:26 AM
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
  Cc: Andrew Burton 
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)


  I have templates for the C 40 windows if anyone needs them. Actually, just 
a set of old windows the PO thoughtfully passed on to me.


  Andy

  C 40

  Peregrine



  On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 9:17 AM, Pete Shelquist via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Just an observation; The VHB tape seems like a more simple installation.  
However, I’m curious if Plexus is evil because it’s too hard and tenacious, yet 
the VHB joined parts won’t come apart, in 5-10 yrs when redoing windows again 
it sounds like we’ll be calling VHB evil.  



I don’t have a better solution, and question if there’s really a good one 
out there.  It sounds like we need to keep templates of the lenses and deal 
with cutting and filling around the frame when the connection fails.







From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary 
Russell via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 7:47 PM
To: C List
Cc: Gary Russell
    Subject: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)



For those who were following my post on bonded windows on High Maintenance, 
I have an update and many thoughts on the project enumerated below.  I have 
successfully installed two windows on the starboard side and replaced the 
acrylic on all the hatches and can say that the project has been very 
successful.  I have terminated my project at this point as the temperatures are 
now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperature of greater than 60 
degrees F for application.  Here are my observations:



#1.  Plexus is evil stuff and should not be allowed on a boat.  It is too 
hard and tenacious a bond.  Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a 
different expansion coefficient, fracture of the acrylic is assured.  Removing 
the stuff is impossible without destroying the gel coat underneath.  I tried a 
sharp blade between the fiberglass and the acrylic and all I managed to do was 
rip up the gel coat.



#2.  Before removing the windows, make a template out of some thin plywood 
(or other material) because the window will (no doubt) come out in pieces and 
you will have nothing as a reference for making the new windows.



#3.  I finally was successful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router bit 
set to a depth equal to the thickness of the acrylic plus the thickness of the 
Plexus.  I actually used a Roto-Zip instead of a router as it had a smaller 
footprint and was easier to handle.  I free-handed the router to cut through 
the acrylic and into the Plexus.  It’s risky but effective.   Don’t cut all the 
way around the perimeter, but leave tabs to support the window.  Otherwise, the 
window will sink under the weight of the router and you will cut into the gel 
coat.  You can break out the tabs later.



#4.  Once the windows were out, I used West System epoxy thickened with low 
density filler to repair any damage to the gel coat.  Fortunately, all my gel 
coat damage was limited to the area under the windows.  Once the windows are 
out and the damage is repaired, the rest is fun and easy. 



#5.   I cut the new window out of 3/8” Plexiglas using a pattern router bit 
(sometimes called a Formica trimmer).  I used masking tape folded in half 
lengthwise to stick the new Plexiglas to the old window (or template).  I ran 
the tape at right angles to insure that they wouldn’t slide in either direction 
with respect to each other.  It does a very nice job and is quite easy.  I then 
used a 1/8” round off router bit on the outside edge of the new window for 
cosmetic reasons and a 45 degree chamfer bit on the inside edge to make room 
for the Dow Corning 795 silicone.



#6.  I installed the 3M VHB 4991 tape on the coach roof and masked around 
where I wanted the window to go.  This would help me locate the window and 
provide the masking for the Dow Corning 795 silicone to follow.  I

Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Hi Allen,
 With the grey Plexiglas, the black looks very nice.  I can't imagine
using white, personally.  There are two shades of gray (2064 and 2074).  I
chose the darker color (2074) and really like it.

Gary

~~~_/)~~


On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 2:57 PM, allen via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:

> Gary,
>
> After my acrylic windows were bonded to the cabin sides, they were caulked
> with some kind of white material that looked great for the first couple of
> weeks, then started to bleed down the acrylic face of the window.  Now I
> can see a little gully between the horizontal side of the acrylic and the
> cabin fiberglass.  I was looking for something white and more persistent,
> but maybe black would be good.
>
> Allen
>
> *From:* Gary Russell via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 03, 2015 7:51 PM
> *To:* C List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> *Cc:* Gary Russell <captnga...@gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)
>
> Allen,
>  If I understand your question, I used Dow Corning 795 Black silicone.
> Gary
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 7:46 PM, allen via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> wrote:
>
>> What did you use for caulking to protect the bond?  My caulking is coming
>> undone.
>>
>> Allen Miles
>> s/v Septima
>> C 30-2
>> Hampton, VA
>>
>> *From:* Andrew Burton via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 03, 2015 9:26 AM
>> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> *Cc:* Andrew Burton <a.burton.sai...@gmail.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)
>>
>> I have templates for the C 40 windows if anyone needs them. Actually,
>> just a set of old windows the PO thoughtfully passed on to me.
>>
>> Andy
>> C 40
>> Peregrine
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 9:17 AM, Pete Shelquist via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Just an observation; The VHB tape seems like a more simple
>>> installation.  However, I’m curious if Plexus is evil because it’s too hard
>>> and tenacious, yet the VHB joined parts won’t come apart, in 5-10 yrs when
>>> redoing windows again it sounds like we’ll be calling VHB evil.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don’t have a better solution, and question if there’s really a good
>>> one out there.  It sounds like we need to keep templates of the lenses and
>>> deal with cutting and filling around the frame when the connection fails.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Gary
>>> Russell via CnC-List
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 02, 2015 7:47 PM
>>> *To:* C List
>>> *Cc:* Gary Russell
>>> *Subject:* Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For those who were following my post on bonded windows on High
>>> Maintenance, I have an update and many thoughts on the project enumerated
>>> below.  I have successfully installed two windows on the starboard side and
>>> replaced the acrylic on all the hatches and can say that the project has
>>> been very successful.  I have terminated my project at this point as the
>>> temperatures are now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperature
>>> of greater than 60 degrees F for application.  Here are my observations:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #1.  Plexus is evil stuff and should not be allowed on a boat.  It is
>>> too hard and tenacious a bond.  Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a
>>> different expansion coefficient, fracture of the acrylic is assured.
>>> Removing the stuff is impossible without destroying the gel coat
>>> underneath.  I tried a sharp blade between the fiberglass and the acrylic
>>> and all I managed to do was rip up the gel coat.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #2.  Before removing the windows, make a template out of some thin
>>> plywood (or other material) because the window will (no doubt) come out in
>>> pieces and you will have nothing as a reference for making the new windows.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #3.  I finally was successful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router
>>> bit set to a depth equal to the thickness of the acrylic plus the thickness
>>> of the Plexus.  I actually used a Roto-Zip instead of a router as it had a
>>> smaller footprint and was easier to handle.  I free-handed the route

Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Dennis C.


On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 8:17 AM, S Thomas via CnC-List  wrote:

> I ran a small bead of 3M 4000 UV along the tops of my cabin windows, and
> after a couple of years noticed that it had separated from the Plexiglas
> along the entire length. It is still stuck very well to the gelcoat. Maybe
> it would have stuck with a suitable primer, I don't know, but I found no
> reference to any such thing when I (later) checked the product
> documentation. Adhesion characteristics for metals, gelcoat, fibreglass,
> hardwoods, and even nylon are given, but acrylic plastic is not mentioned
> and there is no list of materials with poor adhesion characteristics. Seems
> odd given that the "UV" characteristic is specifically mentioned as making
> the product suitable for glazing.
>
> Anyway, that was my experience.
>
> Steve Thomas
> Port Stanley, ON
>
>
___

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Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[S Thomas via CnC-List]

I ran a small bead of 3M 4000 UV along the tops of my cabin windows, and after 
a couple of years noticed that it had separated from the Plexiglas along the 
entire length. It is still stuck very well to the gelcoat. Maybe it would have 
stuck with a suitable primer, I don't know, but I found no reference to any 
such thing when I (later) checked the product documentation. Adhesion 
characteristics for metals, gelcoat, fibreglass, hardwoods, and even nylon are 
given, but acrylic plastic is not mentioned and there is no list of materials 
with poor adhesion characteristics. Seems odd given that the "UV" 
characteristic is specifically mentioned as making the product suitable for 
glazing.

Anyway, that was my experience. 

Steve Thomas
Port Stanley, ON
  - Original Message - 
  From: Gary Russell via CnC-List 
  To: C List 
  Cc: Gary Russell 
  Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2015 19:51
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)


  Allen,
   If I understand your question, I used Dow Corning 795 Black silicone.
  Gary


  ~~~_/)~~




  On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 7:46 PM, allen via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
wrote:

What did you use for caulking to protect the bond?  My caulking is coming 
undone.

Allen Miles
s/v Septima
C 30-2
Hampton, VA


From: Andrew Burton via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2015 9:26 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Andrew Burton 
    Subject: Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)


___

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page at:
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Stus-List Bonded Windows

[Mitchell's via CnC-List]

Gary, Nice write up, thanks! I have the same project to do in April/May. You 
left me with one question. How many tubes of Dow Corning did you need? 
Len Mitchell
Crazy Legs
1989 37+
Midland On. 

Sent from my mobile device. 
___

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page at:
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Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Headgorilla via CnC-List]

Very nice work, thank you for sharing your project with us.
 
Mike
Skywalker 34'
 
 
-Original Message-
From: Gary Russell via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: C List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Gary Russell <captnga...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Dec 2, 2015 8:48 pm
Subject: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)



For those who were following my post on bonded windows onHigh Maintenance, I 
have an update and many thoughts on the project enumeratedbelow.  I have 
successfully installed twowindows on the starboard side and replaced the 
acrylic on all the hatches andcan say that the project has been very 
successful.  I have terminated my project at this point asthe temperatures are 
now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperatureof greater than 60 
degrees F for application. Here are my observations:

 
#1.  Plexus is evilstuff and should not be allowed on a boat. It is too hard 
and tenacious a bond. Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a different 
expansion coefficient,fracture of the acrylic is assured. Removing the stuff is 
impossible without destroying the gel coatunderneath.  I tried a sharp 
bladebetween the fiberglass and the acrylic and all I managed to do was rip up 
thegel coat.
 
#2.  Before removingthe windows, make a template out of some thin plywood (or 
other material) becausethe window will (no doubt) come out in pieces and you 
will have nothing as areference for making the new windows.
 
#3.  I finally wassuccessful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router bit set to 
a depth equal to thethickness of the acrylic plus the thickness of the Plexus.  
I actually used a Roto-Zip instead of arouter as it had a smaller footprint and 
was easier to handle.  I free-handed the router to cut through theacrylic and 
into the Plexus.  It’s riskybut effective.   Don’t cut all the wayaround the 
perimeter, but leave tabs to support the window.  Otherwise, the window will 
sink under theweight of the router and you will cut into the gel coat.  You can 
break out the tabs later.
 
#4.  Once the windows wereout, I used West System epoxy thickened with low 
density filler to repair anydamage to the gel coat.  Fortunately, all my gel 
coat damage was limited to the area under the windows.  Once the windowsare out 
and the damage is repaired, the rest is fun and easy. 
 
#5.   I cut the newwindow out of 3/8” Plexiglas using a pattern router bit 
(sometimes called a Formicatrimmer).  I used masking tape folded inhalf 
lengthwise to stick the new Plexiglas to the old window (or template).  I ran 
the tape at right angles to insure thatthey wouldn’t slide in either direction 
with respect to each other.  It does a very nice job and is quiteeasy.  I then 
used a 1/8” round offrouter bit on the outside edge of the new window for 
cosmetic reasons and a 45degree chamfer bit on the inside edge to make room for 
the Dow Corning 795silicone.
 
#6.  I installed the3M VHB 4991 tape on the coach roof and masked around where 
I wanted the windowto go.  This would help me locate the window and provide the 
masking for the Dow Corning 795 siliconeto follow.  I also masked the edge of 
thenew window for the same reason.
 
#7.  Now cones thetricky part.  You only get one shot withthe VHB tape, because 
once it is down, it is not coming up.  I tried adhering two small pieces of 
acrylicto each other with about two square inches of VHB tape, and I can assure 
you,you won’t pull them apart.  VHB isamazing stuff.  As a guide, I mounted 
twosmall wooden blocks to the masking take below the window with a small piece 
ofVHB tape.  By attaching it to the maskingtape, I was sure I could get it back 
off. Actually, VHB doesn’t stick very well to masking tape anyway.  I also 
stuck a small wooden block to the maskingtape at one end of the window as well. 
This allowed me to set the window on the two bottom block and then slideit over 
to the end block before pushing the window into place.  By all means, make 
several trial runs withthe film still on the VHB tape before removing the film. 
 Once the film is off you are committed.  I pushed the window in place and it 
lookedperfect.  Then it is simply a matter ofsquirting the Dow Corning stuff 
into the gap and smoothing it out with afinger.  As soon as the silicon 
issmoothed out, you can remove the masking tape and pour yourself a stiff 
one,while you admire the fine job you have done.
 
#8.  There was concernexpressed that the VHB tape would be visible through the 
window, and it wassuggested that the window should be painted with Krylon 
Fusion Black.  Actually, the VHB tape is the same color asthe Plexus which is 
not visible, so the VHB won’t be visible either.  No paint is necessary.  I 
used the darker shade of grey Plexiglas andcan say that it look spectacular.  
Thedarker shade really “pops” and the contrast is particularly attractive (in 
myhumble opinion).  The darker color makesit difficult to see into the boat, 
but has a m

Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Pete Shelquist via CnC-List]

Just an observation; The VHB tape seems like a more simple installation.  
However, I’m curious if Plexus is evil because it’s too hard and tenacious, yet 
the VHB joined parts won’t come apart, in 5-10 yrs when redoing windows again 
it sounds like we’ll be calling VHB evil.  

 

I don’t have a better solution, and question if there’s really a good one out 
there.  It sounds like we need to keep templates of the lenses and deal with 
cutting and filling around the frame when the connection fails.

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary Russell 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 7:47 PM
To: C List
Cc: Gary Russell
Subject: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

 

For those who were following my post on bonded windows on High Maintenance, I 
have an update and many thoughts on the project enumerated below.  I have 
successfully installed two windows on the starboard side and replaced the 
acrylic on all the hatches and can say that the project has been very 
successful.  I have terminated my project at this point as the temperatures are 
now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperature of greater than 60 
degrees F for application.  Here are my observations:

 

#1.  Plexus is evil stuff and should not be allowed on a boat.  It is too hard 
and tenacious a bond.  Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a different 
expansion coefficient, fracture of the acrylic is assured.  Removing the stuff 
is impossible without destroying the gel coat underneath.  I tried a sharp 
blade between the fiberglass and the acrylic and all I managed to do was rip up 
the gel coat.

 

#2.  Before removing the windows, make a template out of some thin plywood (or 
other material) because the window will (no doubt) come out in pieces and you 
will have nothing as a reference for making the new windows.

 

#3.  I finally was successful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router bit set 
to a depth equal to the thickness of the acrylic plus the thickness of the 
Plexus.  I actually used a Roto-Zip instead of a router as it had a smaller 
footprint and was easier to handle.  I free-handed the router to cut through 
the acrylic and into the Plexus.  It’s risky but effective.   Don’t cut all the 
way around the perimeter, but leave tabs to support the window.  Otherwise, the 
window will sink under the weight of the router and you will cut into the gel 
coat.  You can break out the tabs later.

 

#4.  Once the windows were out, I used West System epoxy thickened with low 
density filler to repair any damage to the gel coat.  Fortunately, all my gel 
coat damage was limited to the area under the windows.  Once the windows are 
out and the damage is repaired, the rest is fun and easy. 

 

#5.   I cut the new window out of 3/8” Plexiglas using a pattern router bit 
(sometimes called a Formica trimmer).  I used masking tape folded in half 
lengthwise to stick the new Plexiglas to the old window (or template).  I ran 
the tape at right angles to insure that they wouldn’t slide in either direction 
with respect to each other.  It does a very nice job and is quite easy.  I then 
used a 1/8” round off router bit on the outside edge of the new window for 
cosmetic reasons and a 45 degree chamfer bit on the inside edge to make room 
for the Dow Corning 795 silicone.

 

#6.  I installed the 3M VHB 4991 tape on the coach roof and masked around where 
I wanted the window to go.  This would help me locate the window and provide 
the masking for the Dow Corning 795 silicone to follow.  I also masked the edge 
of the new window for the same reason.

 

#7.  Now cones the tricky part.  You only get one shot with the VHB tape, 
because once it is down, it is not coming up.  I tried adhering two small 
pieces of acrylic to each other with about two square inches of VHB tape, and I 
can assure you, you won’t pull them apart.  VHB is amazing stuff.  As a guide, 
I mounted two small wooden blocks to the masking take below the window with a 
small piece of VHB tape.  By attaching it to the masking tape, I was sure I 
could get it back off.  Actually, VHB doesn’t stick very well to masking tape 
anyway.  I also stuck a small wooden block to the masking tape at one end of 
the window as well.  This allowed me to set the window on the two bottom block 
and then slide it over to the end block before pushing the window into place.  
By all means, make several trial runs with the film still on the VHB tape 
before removing the film.  Once the film is off you are committed.  I pushed 
the window in place and it looked perfect.  Then it is simply a matter of 
squirting the Dow Corning stuff into the gap and smoothing it out with a 
finger.  As soon as the silicon is smoothed out, you can remove the masking 
tape and pour yourself a stiff one, while you admire the fine job you have done.

 

#8.  There was concern expressed that the VHB tape would be visible through the 
window

Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Andrew Burton via CnC-List]

I have templates for the C 40 windows if anyone needs them. Actually,
just a set of old windows the PO thoughtfully passed on to me.

Andy
C 40
Peregrine

On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 9:17 AM, Pete Shelquist via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Just an observation; The VHB tape seems like a more simple installation.
> However, I’m curious if Plexus is evil because it’s too hard and tenacious,
> yet the VHB joined parts won’t come apart, in 5-10 yrs when redoing windows
> again it sounds like we’ll be calling VHB evil.
>
>
>
> I don’t have a better solution, and question if there’s really a good one
> out there.  It sounds like we need to keep templates of the lenses and deal
> with cutting and filling around the frame when the connection fails.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Gary
> Russell via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 02, 2015 7:47 PM
> *To:* C List
> *Cc:* Gary Russell
> *Subject:* Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)
>
>
>
> For those who were following my post on bonded windows on High
> Maintenance, I have an update and many thoughts on the project enumerated
> below.  I have successfully installed two windows on the starboard side and
> replaced the acrylic on all the hatches and can say that the project has
> been very successful.  I have terminated my project at this point as the
> temperatures are now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperature
> of greater than 60 degrees F for application.  Here are my observations:
>
>
>
> #1.  Plexus is evil stuff and should not be allowed on a boat.  It is too
> hard and tenacious a bond.  Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a
> different expansion coefficient, fracture of the acrylic is assured.
> Removing the stuff is impossible without destroying the gel coat
> underneath.  I tried a sharp blade between the fiberglass and the acrylic
> and all I managed to do was rip up the gel coat.
>
>
>
> #2.  Before removing the windows, make a template out of some thin plywood
> (or other material) because the window will (no doubt) come out in pieces
> and you will have nothing as a reference for making the new windows.
>
>
>
> #3.  I finally was successful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router bit
> set to a depth equal to the thickness of the acrylic plus the thickness of
> the Plexus.  I actually used a Roto-Zip instead of a router as it had a
> smaller footprint and was easier to handle.  I free-handed the router to
> cut through the acrylic and into the Plexus.  It’s risky but effective.
> Don’t cut all the way around the perimeter, but leave tabs to support the
> window.  Otherwise, the window will sink under the weight of the router and
> you will cut into the gel coat.  You can break out the tabs later.
>
>
>
> #4.  Once the windows were out, I used West System epoxy thickened with
> low density filler to repair any damage to the gel coat.  Fortunately, all
> my gel coat damage was limited to the area under the windows.  Once the
> windows are out and the damage is repaired, the rest is fun and easy.
>
>
>
> #5.   I cut the new window out of 3/8” Plexiglas using a pattern router
> bit (sometimes called a Formica trimmer).  I used masking tape folded in
> half lengthwise to stick the new Plexiglas to the old window (or
> template).  I ran the tape at right angles to insure that they wouldn’t
> slide in either direction with respect to each other.  It does a very nice
> job and is quite easy.  I then used a 1/8” round off router bit on the
> outside edge of the new window for cosmetic reasons and a 45 degree chamfer
> bit on the inside edge to make room for the Dow Corning 795 silicone.
>
>
>
> #6.  I installed the 3M VHB 4991 tape on the coach roof and masked around
> where I wanted the window to go.  This would help me locate the window and
> provide the masking for the Dow Corning 795 silicone to follow.  I also
> masked the edge of the new window for the same reason.
>
>
>
> #7.  Now cones the tricky part.  You only get one shot with the VHB tape,
> because once it is down, it is not coming up.  I tried adhering two small
> pieces of acrylic to each other with about two square inches of VHB tape,
> and I can assure you, you won’t pull them apart.  VHB is amazing stuff.  As
> a guide, I mounted two small wooden blocks to the masking take below the
> window with a small piece of VHB tape.  By attaching it to the masking
> tape, I was sure I could get it back off.  Actually, VHB doesn’t stick very
> well to masking tape anyway.  I also stuck a small wooden block to the
> masking tape at one end of the window as well.  This allowed me to set the
> window on the

Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Dreuge via CnC-List]

Hi Gary,

As I mentioned on the list before, there is a simple solution for the tricky 
part.  

Before removing the protective film on the VHB tape, align the window exactly 
where you want it and run two wide strips of masking tape down from the cabin 
top
onto the window spaced out like hinges. Then gently swing up the window, 
remove the VHB protective film, gently swing back down, and press firmly.  Easy 
and 
accurate for one person to do even for ports over 50".

-
Paul E.
1981 C 38 Landfall 
S/V Johanna Rose
Carrabelle, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

> On Dec 2, 2015, at 8:58 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> 
> #7.  Now cones the tricky part.  You only get one shot with the VHB tape,
> because once it is down, it is not coming up.  I tried adhering two small
> pieces of acrylic to each other with about two square inches of VHB tape,
> and I can assure you, you won?t pull them apart.  VHB is amazing stuff.  As
> a guide, I mounted two small wooden blocks to the masking take below the
> window with a small piece of VHB tape.  By attaching it to the masking
> tape, I was sure I could get it back off.  Actually, VHB doesn?t stick very
> well to masking tape anyway.  I also stuck a small wooden block to the
> masking tape at one end of the window as well.  This allowed me to set the
> window on the two bottom block and then slide it over to the end block
> before pushing the window into place.  By all means, make several trial
> runs with the film still on the VHB tape before removing the film.  Once
> the film is off you are committed.  I pushed the window in place and it
> looked perfect.  Then it is simply a matter of squirting the Dow Corning
> stuff into the gap and smoothing it out with a finger.  As soon as the
> silicon is smoothed out, you can remove the masking tape and pour yourself
> a stiff one, while you admire the fine job you have done.

___

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To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
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Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Robert Boyer via CnC-List]

Also, a little heat using a heat gun (or the sun in the tropics) will make it 
easier to separate.

Bob

Sent from my iPhone, Bob Boyer

> On Dec 3, 2015, at 12:49 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List 
> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Pete,
>  Although you can't pull the VHB apart with your fingers, it would be 
> very easy (I think) to separate with a blade.  Although I haven't tried it, 
> the tape is quite thick (0.090") and made of a firm acrylic foam, so cutting 
> the bond should do the trick.  A sharp razor blade should be able to remove 
> the residue.
> 
> Gary
> S/V High Maintenance
> '90 C 37 Plus
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
> 
> ~~~_/)~~
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 9:17 AM, Pete Shelquist via CnC-List 
>> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>> Just an observation; The VHB tape seems like a more simple installation.  
>> However, I’m curious if Plexus is evil because it’s too hard and tenacious, 
>> yet the VHB joined parts won’t come apart, in 5-10 yrs when redoing windows 
>> again it sounds like we’ll be calling VHB evil. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I don’t have a better solution, and question if there’s really a good one 
>> out there.  It sounds like we need to keep templates of the lenses and deal 
>> with cutting and filling around the frame when the connection fails.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary 
>> Russell via CnC-List
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 7:47 PM
>> To: C List
>> Cc: Gary Russell
>> Subject: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> For those who were following my post on bonded windows on High Maintenance, 
>> I have an update and many thoughts on the project enumerated below.  I have 
>> successfully installed two windows on the starboard side and replaced the 
>> acrylic on all the hatches and can say that the project has been very 
>> successful.  I have terminated my project at this point as the temperatures 
>> are now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperature of greater 
>> than 60 degrees F for application.  Here are my observations:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> #1.  Plexus is evil stuff and should not be allowed on a boat.  It is too 
>> hard and tenacious a bond.  Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a 
>> different expansion coefficient, fracture of the acrylic is assured.  
>> Removing the stuff is impossible without destroying the gel coat underneath. 
>>  I tried a sharp blade between the fiberglass and the acrylic and all I 
>> managed to do was rip up the gel coat.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> #2.  Before removing the windows, make a template out of some thin plywood 
>> (or other material) because the window will (no doubt) come out in pieces 
>> and you will have nothing as a reference for making the new windows.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> #3.  I finally was successful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router bit 
>> set to a depth equal to the thickness of the acrylic plus the thickness of 
>> the Plexus.  I actually used a Roto-Zip instead of a router as it had a 
>> smaller footprint and was easier to handle.  I free-handed the router to cut 
>> through the acrylic and into the Plexus.  It’s risky but effective.   Don’t 
>> cut all the way around the perimeter, but leave tabs to support the window.  
>> Otherwise, the window will sink under the weight of the router and you will 
>> cut into the gel coat.  You can break out the tabs later.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> #4.  Once the windows were out, I used West System epoxy thickened with low 
>> density filler to repair any damage to the gel coat.  Fortunately, all my 
>> gel coat damage was limited to the area under the windows.  Once the windows 
>> are out and the damage is repaired, the rest is fun and easy.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> #5.   I cut the new window out of 3/8” Plexiglas using a pattern router bit 
>> (sometimes called a Formica trimmer).  I used masking tape folded in half 
>> lengthwise to stick the new Plexiglas to the old window (or template).  I 
>> ran the tape at right angles to insure that they wouldn’t slide in either 
>> direction with respect to each other.  It does a very nice job and is quite 
>> easy.  I then used a 1/8” round off router bit on the outside edge of the 
>> new window for cosmetic reasons and a 45 degree chamfer bit on the inside 
>> edge to make room for the Dow Corning 795 silicone.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> #6.  I installed the 3M VHB 4991 tape o

Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Allen,
 If I understand your question, I used Dow Corning 795 Black silicone.
Gary

~~~_/)~~


On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 7:46 PM, allen via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:

> What did you use for caulking to protect the bond?  My caulking is coming
> undone.
>
> Allen Miles
> s/v Septima
> C 30-2
> Hampton, VA
>
> *From:* Andrew Burton via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 03, 2015 9:26 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Andrew Burton <a.burton.sai...@gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)
>
> I have templates for the C 40 windows if anyone needs them. Actually,
> just a set of old windows the PO thoughtfully passed on to me.
>
> Andy
> C 40
> Peregrine
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 9:17 AM, Pete Shelquist via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Just an observation; The VHB tape seems like a more simple installation.
>> However, I’m curious if Plexus is evil because it’s too hard and tenacious,
>> yet the VHB joined parts won’t come apart, in 5-10 yrs when redoing windows
>> again it sounds like we’ll be calling VHB evil.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don’t have a better solution, and question if there’s really a good one
>> out there.  It sounds like we need to keep templates of the lenses and deal
>> with cutting and filling around the frame when the connection fails.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Gary
>> Russell via CnC-List
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 02, 2015 7:47 PM
>> *To:* C List
>> *Cc:* Gary Russell
>> *Subject:* Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)
>>
>>
>>
>> For those who were following my post on bonded windows on High
>> Maintenance, I have an update and many thoughts on the project enumerated
>> below.  I have successfully installed two windows on the starboard side and
>> replaced the acrylic on all the hatches and can say that the project has
>> been very successful.  I have terminated my project at this point as the
>> temperatures are now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperature
>> of greater than 60 degrees F for application.  Here are my observations:
>>
>>
>>
>> #1.  Plexus is evil stuff and should not be allowed on a boat.  It is too
>> hard and tenacious a bond.  Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a
>> different expansion coefficient, fracture of the acrylic is assured.
>> Removing the stuff is impossible without destroying the gel coat
>> underneath.  I tried a sharp blade between the fiberglass and the acrylic
>> and all I managed to do was rip up the gel coat.
>>
>>
>>
>> #2.  Before removing the windows, make a template out of some thin
>> plywood (or other material) because the window will (no doubt) come out in
>> pieces and you will have nothing as a reference for making the new windows.
>>
>>
>>
>> #3.  I finally was successful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router bit
>> set to a depth equal to the thickness of the acrylic plus the thickness of
>> the Plexus.  I actually used a Roto-Zip instead of a router as it had a
>> smaller footprint and was easier to handle.  I free-handed the router to
>> cut through the acrylic and into the Plexus.  It’s risky but effective.
>> Don’t cut all the way around the perimeter, but leave tabs to support the
>> window.  Otherwise, the window will sink under the weight of the router and
>> you will cut into the gel coat.  You can break out the tabs later.
>>
>>
>>
>> #4.  Once the windows were out, I used West System epoxy thickened with
>> low density filler to repair any damage to the gel coat.  Fortunately, all
>> my gel coat damage was limited to the area under the windows.  Once the
>> windows are out and the damage is repaired, the rest is fun and easy.
>>
>>
>>
>> #5.   I cut the new window out of 3/8” Plexiglas using a pattern router
>> bit (sometimes called a Formica trimmer).  I used masking tape folded in
>> half lengthwise to stick the new Plexiglas to the old window (or
>> template).  I ran the tape at right angles to insure that they wouldn’t
>> slide in either direction with respect to each other.  It does a very nice
>> job and is quite easy.  I then used a 1/8” round off router bit on the
>> outside edge of the new window for cosmetic reasons and a 45 degree chamfer
>> bit on the inside edge to make room for the Dow Corning 795 silicone.
>>
>>
>>
>> #6.  I installed the 3M VHB 4991 tape on the co

Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[allen via CnC-List]

What did you use for caulking to protect the bond?  My caulking is coming 
undone.

Allen Miles
s/v Septima
C 30-2
Hampton, VA


From: Andrew Burton via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2015 9:26 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Andrew Burton 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)


I have templates for the C 40 windows if anyone needs them. Actually, just a 
set of old windows the PO thoughtfully passed on to me.


Andy

C 40

Peregrine



On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 9:17 AM, Pete Shelquist via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

  Just an observation; The VHB tape seems like a more simple installation.  
However, I’m curious if Plexus is evil because it’s too hard and tenacious, yet 
the VHB joined parts won’t come apart, in 5-10 yrs when redoing windows again 
it sounds like we’ll be calling VHB evil.  



  I don’t have a better solution, and question if there’s really a good one out 
there.  It sounds like we need to keep templates of the lenses and deal with 
cutting and filling around the frame when the connection fails.







  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary 
Russell via CnC-List
  Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 7:47 PM
  To: C List
  Cc: Gary Russell
  Subject: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)



  For those who were following my post on bonded windows on High Maintenance, I 
have an update and many thoughts on the project enumerated below.  I have 
successfully installed two windows on the starboard side and replaced the 
acrylic on all the hatches and can say that the project has been very 
successful.  I have terminated my project at this point as the temperatures are 
now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperature of greater than 60 
degrees F for application.  Here are my observations:



  #1.  Plexus is evil stuff and should not be allowed on a boat.  It is too 
hard and tenacious a bond.  Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a 
different expansion coefficient, fracture of the acrylic is assured.  Removing 
the stuff is impossible without destroying the gel coat underneath.  I tried a 
sharp blade between the fiberglass and the acrylic and all I managed to do was 
rip up the gel coat.



  #2.  Before removing the windows, make a template out of some thin plywood 
(or other material) because the window will (no doubt) come out in pieces and 
you will have nothing as a reference for making the new windows.



  #3.  I finally was successful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router bit set 
to a depth equal to the thickness of the acrylic plus the thickness of the 
Plexus.  I actually used a Roto-Zip instead of a router as it had a smaller 
footprint and was easier to handle.  I free-handed the router to cut through 
the acrylic and into the Plexus.  It’s risky but effective.   Don’t cut all the 
way around the perimeter, but leave tabs to support the window.  Otherwise, the 
window will sink under the weight of the router and you will cut into the gel 
coat.  You can break out the tabs later.



  #4.  Once the windows were out, I used West System epoxy thickened with low 
density filler to repair any damage to the gel coat.  Fortunately, all my gel 
coat damage was limited to the area under the windows.  Once the windows are 
out and the damage is repaired, the rest is fun and easy. 



  #5.   I cut the new window out of 3/8” Plexiglas using a pattern router bit 
(sometimes called a Formica trimmer).  I used masking tape folded in half 
lengthwise to stick the new Plexiglas to the old window (or template).  I ran 
the tape at right angles to insure that they wouldn’t slide in either direction 
with respect to each other.  It does a very nice job and is quite easy.  I then 
used a 1/8” round off router bit on the outside edge of the new window for 
cosmetic reasons and a 45 degree chamfer bit on the inside edge to make room 
for the Dow Corning 795 silicone.



  #6.  I installed the 3M VHB 4991 tape on the coach roof and masked around 
where I wanted the window to go.  This would help me locate the window and 
provide the masking for the Dow Corning 795 silicone to follow.  I also masked 
the edge of the new window for the same reason.



  #7.  Now cones the tricky part.  You only get one shot with the VHB tape, 
because once it is down, it is not coming up.  I tried adhering two small 
pieces of acrylic to each other with about two square inches of VHB tape, and I 
can assure you, you won’t pull them apart.  VHB is amazing stuff.  As a guide, 
I mounted two small wooden blocks to the masking take below the window with a 
small piece of VHB tape.  By attaching it to the masking tape, I was sure I 
could get it back off.  Actually, VHB doesn’t stick very well to masking tape 
anyway.  I also stuck a small wooden block to the masking tape at one end of 
the window as well.  This allowed me to set the window on the two bottom block 
and then slide it over to the end block before pushing the window into

Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Hi Paul,
 I did consider your proposal, but because my forward window was over
90" long, mounted on a curved surface and the area above was mostly
non-skid I was uncomfortable with that approach.  Masking tape does not
stick well to non-skid and a bonding failure at a critical time would be a
disaster.  I don't doubt that it would work well for many applications, and
might have worked for mine as well, but in the end, I was just
uncomfortable and looked for an alternative.  Mounting the guide blocks
worked very well for me.  Thanks for your post.

Gary
S/V High Maintenance
'90 C 37 Plus
East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~


On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 8:35 AM, Dreuge via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Hi Gary,
>
> As I mentioned on the list before, there is a simple solution for the
> tricky part.
>
> Before removing the protective film on the VHB tape, align the window
> exactly
> where you want it and run two wide strips of masking tape down from the
> cabin top
> onto the window spaced out like hinges. Then gently swing up the window,
> remove the VHB protective film, gently swing back down, and press firmly.
> Easy and
> accurate for one person to do even for ports over 50".
>
> -
> Paul E.
> 1981 C 38 Landfall
> S/V Johanna Rose
> Carrabelle, FL
>
> http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/
>
> On Dec 2, 2015, at 8:58 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
>
>
> #7.  Now cones the tricky part.  You only get one shot with the VHB tape,
> because once it is down, it is not coming up.  I tried adhering two small
> pieces of acrylic to each other with about two square inches of VHB tape,
> and I can assure you, you won?t pull them apart.  VHB is amazing stuff.  As
> a guide, I mounted two small wooden blocks to the masking take below the
> window with a small piece of VHB tape.  By attaching it to the masking
> tape, I was sure I could get it back off.  Actually, VHB doesn?t stick very
> well to masking tape anyway.  I also stuck a small wooden block to the
> masking tape at one end of the window as well.  This allowed me to set the
> window on the two bottom block and then slide it over to the end block
> before pushing the window into place.  By all means, make several trial
> runs with the film still on the VHB tape before removing the film.  Once
> the film is off you are committed.  I pushed the window in place and it
> looked perfect.  Then it is simply a matter of squirting the Dow Corning
> stuff into the gap and smoothing it out with a finger.  As soon as the
> silicon is smoothed out, you can remove the masking tape and pour yourself
> a stiff one, while you admire the fine job you have done.
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
___

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Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Hi Danny,
 Yes, I did the hatches in place.  I got the 3/8" acrylic (Plexiglas)
from a local plastic supplier, and cut them out using the pattern router.
Basically, I stuck the old lens onto the new acrylic with folded masking
tape (works like double sided tape but easier to remove), then ran the
pattern router (AKA Formica trimmer) around the old lens which duplicated
the old lens onto the new one.  It's actually quite easy.  I can duplicate
a new lens in about 10 minutes.  If  you have any additional questions,
just fire away.  After doing 5 hatches, I wonder why I didn't do it
sooner.  As boat projects go it is quite easy and makes a beautiful
difference.

Gary
S/V High Maintenance
'90 C 37 Plus
East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~


On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 9:35 PM, Danny Haughey via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi Gary,
>
> Awesome write up!  Did you do the hatch lenses in place?  I need to do all
> of my hatches.  As soon as I come up with a plan to seal the hatches back
> up,  I'd like to take them all home to do the work.
>
> I may be bothering you fur more info on the lenses, where you got them and
> how you cut them,  etc.  I saw I video where a guy used the butyl tape on
> hatches like mine but,  found it oozed at the hinges.
>
> Anyway,  I'm envious of your upgrade!
>
> All the best
> Danny
>
>
>
> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
>  Original message 
> From: Gary Russell via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> Date: 12/2/2015 8:47 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: C List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> Cc: Gary Russell <captnga...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)
>
> For those who were following my post on bonded windows on High
> Maintenance, I have an update and many thoughts on the project enumerated
> below.  I have successfully installed two windows on the starboard side and
> replaced the acrylic on all the hatches and can say that the project has
> been very successful.  I have terminated my project at this point as the
> temperatures are now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperature
> of greater than 60 degrees F for application.  Here are my observations:
>
>
>
> #1.  Plexus is evil stuff and should not be allowed on a boat.  It is too
> hard and tenacious a bond.  Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a
> different expansion coefficient, fracture of the acrylic is assured.
> Removing the stuff is impossible without destroying the gel coat
> underneath.  I tried a sharp blade between the fiberglass and the acrylic
> and all I managed to do was rip up the gel coat.
>
>
>
> #2.  Before removing the windows, make a template out of some thin plywood
> (or other material) because the window will (no doubt) come out in pieces
> and you will have nothing as a reference for making the new windows.
>
>
>
> #3.  I finally was successful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router bit
> set to a depth equal to the thickness of the acrylic plus the thickness of
> the Plexus.  I actually used a Roto-Zip instead of a router as it had a
> smaller footprint and was easier to handle.  I free-handed the router to
> cut through the acrylic and into the Plexus.  It’s risky but effective.
> Don’t cut all the way around the perimeter, but leave tabs to support the
> window.  Otherwise, the window will sink under the weight of the router and
> you will cut into the gel coat.  You can break out the tabs later.
>
>
>
> #4.  Once the windows were out, I used West System epoxy thickened with
> low density filler to repair any damage to the gel coat.  Fortunately, all
> my gel coat damage was limited to the area under the windows.  Once the
> windows are out and the damage is repaired, the rest is fun and easy.
>
>
>
> #5.   I cut the new window out of 3/8” Plexiglas using a pattern router
> bit (sometimes called a Formica trimmer).  I used masking tape folded in
> half lengthwise to stick the new Plexiglas to the old window (or
> template).  I ran the tape at right angles to insure that they wouldn’t
> slide in either direction with respect to each other.  It does a very nice
> job and is quite easy.  I then used a 1/8” round off router bit on the
> outside edge of the new window for cosmetic reasons and a 45 degree chamfer
> bit on the inside edge to make room for the Dow Corning 795 silicone.
>
>
>
> #6.  I installed the 3M VHB 4991 tape on the coach roof and masked around
> where I wanted the window to go.  This would help me locate the window and
> provide the masking for the Dow Corning 795 silicone to follow.  I also
> masked the edge of the new window for the same reason.
>
>
>
> #7.  Now cones the tricky part.  You only get one shot with the VHB tape,
>

Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

Hi Gary, 
Awesome write up!  Did you do the hatch lenses in place?  I need to do all of 
my hatches.  As soon as I come up with a plan to seal the hatches back up,  I'd 
like to take them all home to do the work. 
I may be bothering you fur more info on the lenses, where you got them and how 
you cut them,  etc.  I saw I video where a guy used the butyl tape on hatches 
like mine but,  found it oozed at the hinges. 
Anyway,  I'm envious of your upgrade! 
All the bestDanny


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device Original message From: Gary 
Russell via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Date: 12/2/2015  8:47 PM  
(GMT-05:00) To: C List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: Gary Russell 
<captnga...@gmail.com> Subject: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued) 
For those who were following my post on bonded windows on
High Maintenance, I have an update and many thoughts on the project enumerated
below.  I have successfully installed two
windows on the starboard side and replaced the acrylic on all the hatches and
can say that the project has been very successful.  I have terminated my 
project at this point as
the temperatures are now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperature
of greater than 60 degrees F for application. 
Here are my observations:


 

#1.  Plexus is evil
stuff and should not be allowed on a boat. 
It is too hard and tenacious a bond. 
Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a different expansion coefficient,
fracture of the acrylic is assured. 
Removing the stuff is impossible without destroying the gel coat
underneath.  I tried a sharp blade
between the fiberglass and the acrylic and all I managed to do was rip up the
gel coat.

 

#2.  Before removing
the windows, make a template out of some thin plywood (or other material) 
because
the window will (no doubt) come out in pieces and you will have nothing as a
reference for making the new windows.

 

#3.  I finally was
successful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router bit set to a depth equal to 
the
thickness of the acrylic plus the thickness of the Plexus.  I actually used a 
Roto-Zip instead of a
router as it had a smaller footprint and was easier to handle.  I free-handed 
the router to cut through the
acrylic and into the Plexus.  It’s risky
but effective.   Don’t cut all the way
around the perimeter, but leave tabs to support the window.  Otherwise, the 
window will sink under the
weight of the router and you will cut into the gel coat.  You can break out the 
tabs later.

 

#4.  Once the windows were
out, I used West System epoxy thickened with low density filler to repair any
damage to the gel coat.  Fortunately, all my gel coat damage was limited to the 
area under the windows.  Once the windows
are out and the damage is repaired, the rest is fun and easy. 

 

#5.   I cut the new
window out of 3/8” Plexiglas using a pattern router bit (sometimes called a 
Formica
trimmer).  I used masking tape folded in
half lengthwise to stick the new Plexiglas to the old window (or template).  I 
ran the tape at right angles to insure that
they wouldn’t slide in either direction with respect to each other.  It does a 
very nice job and is quite
easy.  I then used a 1/8” round off
router bit on the outside edge of the new window for cosmetic reasons and a 45
degree chamfer bit on the inside edge to make room for the Dow Corning 795
silicone.

 

#6.  I installed the
3M VHB 4991 tape on the coach roof and masked around where I wanted the window
to go.  This would help me locate the window and provide the masking for the 
Dow Corning 795 silicone
to follow.  I also masked the edge of the
new window for the same reason.

 

#7.  Now cones the
tricky part.  You only get one shot with
the VHB tape, because once it is down, it is not coming up.  I tried adhering 
two small pieces of acrylic
to each other with about two square inches of VHB tape, and I can assure you,
you won’t pull them apart.  VHB is
amazing stuff.  As a guide, I mounted two
small wooden blocks to the masking take below the window with a small piece of
VHB tape.  By attaching it to the masking
tape, I was sure I could get it back off. 
Actually, VHB doesn’t stick very well to masking tape anyway.  I also stuck a 
small wooden block to the masking
tape at one end of the window as well. 
This allowed me to set the window on the two bottom block and then slide
it over to the end block before pushing the window into place.  By all means, 
make several trial runs with
the film still on the VHB tape before removing the film.  Once the film is off 
you are committed.  I pushed the window in place and it looked
perfect.  Then it is simply a matter of
squirting the Dow Corning stuff into the gap and smoothing it out with a
finger.  As soon as the silicon is
smoothed out, you can remove the masking tape and pour yourself a stiff one,
while you admire the fine job you have done.

 

#8.  There was concern
expressed that the VHB tape would be visible 

Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Danny,
 I should add I did this on Lewmar Ocean Series hatches.  The process
might be different for different brands.  Cutting the lenses should be the
same, however.

Gary

~~~_/)~~


On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 10:08 PM, Gary Russell <captnga...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Danny,
>  Yes, I did the hatches in place.  I got the 3/8" acrylic (Plexiglas)
> from a local plastic supplier, and cut them out using the pattern router.
> Basically, I stuck the old lens onto the new acrylic with folded masking
> tape (works like double sided tape but easier to remove), then ran the
> pattern router (AKA Formica trimmer) around the old lens which duplicated
> the old lens onto the new one.  It's actually quite easy.  I can duplicate
> a new lens in about 10 minutes.  If  you have any additional questions,
> just fire away.  After doing 5 hatches, I wonder why I didn't do it
> sooner.  As boat projects go it is quite easy and makes a beautiful
> difference.
>
> Gary
> S/V High Maintenance
> '90 C 37 Plus
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 9:35 PM, Danny Haughey via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Gary,
>>
>> Awesome write up!  Did you do the hatch lenses in place?  I need to do
>> all of my hatches.  As soon as I come up with a plan to seal the hatches
>> back up,  I'd like to take them all home to do the work.
>>
>> I may be bothering you fur more info on the lenses, where you got them
>> and how you cut them,  etc.  I saw I video where a guy used the butyl tape
>> on hatches like mine but,  found it oozed at the hinges.
>>
>> Anyway,  I'm envious of your upgrade!
>>
>> All the best
>> Danny
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
>>  Original message ----
>> From: Gary Russell via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
>> Date: 12/2/2015 8:47 PM (GMT-05:00)
>> To: C List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
>> Cc: Gary Russell <captnga...@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)
>>
>> For those who were following my post on bonded windows on High
>> Maintenance, I have an update and many thoughts on the project enumerated
>> below.  I have successfully installed two windows on the starboard side and
>> replaced the acrylic on all the hatches and can say that the project has
>> been very successful.  I have terminated my project at this point as the
>> temperatures are now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperature
>> of greater than 60 degrees F for application.  Here are my observations:
>>
>>
>>
>> #1.  Plexus is evil stuff and should not be allowed on a boat.  It is too
>> hard and tenacious a bond.  Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a
>> different expansion coefficient, fracture of the acrylic is assured.
>> Removing the stuff is impossible without destroying the gel coat
>> underneath.  I tried a sharp blade between the fiberglass and the acrylic
>> and all I managed to do was rip up the gel coat.
>>
>>
>>
>> #2.  Before removing the windows, make a template out of some thin
>> plywood (or other material) because the window will (no doubt) come out in
>> pieces and you will have nothing as a reference for making the new windows.
>>
>>
>>
>> #3.  I finally was successful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router bit
>> set to a depth equal to the thickness of the acrylic plus the thickness of
>> the Plexus.  I actually used a Roto-Zip instead of a router as it had a
>> smaller footprint and was easier to handle.  I free-handed the router to
>> cut through the acrylic and into the Plexus.  It’s risky but effective.
>> Don’t cut all the way around the perimeter, but leave tabs to support the
>> window.  Otherwise, the window will sink under the weight of the router and
>> you will cut into the gel coat.  You can break out the tabs later.
>>
>>
>>
>> #4.  Once the windows were out, I used West System epoxy thickened with
>> low density filler to repair any damage to the gel coat.  Fortunately, all
>> my gel coat damage was limited to the area under the windows.  Once the
>> windows are out and the damage is repaired, the rest is fun and easy.
>>
>>
>>
>> #5.   I cut the new window out of 3/8” Plexiglas using a pattern router
>> bit (sometimes called a Formica trimmer).  I used masking tape folded in
>> half lengthwise to stick the new Plexiglas to the old window (or
>> template).  I ran the tape at right angles to insure that they wouldn’t
>> slide in either direction with res

Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Grr!  Still trying to get link to work.

Try this link:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BwQRSP2fYIFmemxYOGlVcHNUNVk

Gary

~~~_/)~~


On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 8:57 PM, Gary Russell  wrote:

> Oops!  Try this link:
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwQRSP2fYIFmemxYOGlVcHNUNVk=sharing
>
> Gary
> S/V High Maintenance
> '90 C 37 Plus
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 8:47 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> For those who were following my post on bonded windows on High
>> Maintenance, I have an update and many thoughts on the project enumerated
>> below.  I have successfully installed two windows on the starboard side and
>> replaced the acrylic on all the hatches and can say that the project has
>> been very successful.  I have terminated my project at this point as the
>> temperatures are now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperature
>> of greater than 60 degrees F for application.  Here are my observations:
>>
>>
>>
>> #1.  Plexus is evil stuff and should not be allowed on a boat.  It is too
>> hard and tenacious a bond.  Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a
>> different expansion coefficient, fracture of the acrylic is assured.
>> Removing the stuff is impossible without destroying the gel coat
>> underneath.  I tried a sharp blade between the fiberglass and the acrylic
>> and all I managed to do was rip up the gel coat.
>>
>>
>>
>> #2.  Before removing the windows, make a template out of some thin
>> plywood (or other material) because the window will (no doubt) come out in
>> pieces and you will have nothing as a reference for making the new windows.
>>
>>
>>
>> #3.  I finally was successful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router bit
>> set to a depth equal to the thickness of the acrylic plus the thickness of
>> the Plexus.  I actually used a Roto-Zip instead of a router as it had a
>> smaller footprint and was easier to handle.  I free-handed the router to
>> cut through the acrylic and into the Plexus.  It’s risky but effective.
>> Don’t cut all the way around the perimeter, but leave tabs to support the
>> window.  Otherwise, the window will sink under the weight of the router and
>> you will cut into the gel coat.  You can break out the tabs later.
>>
>>
>>
>> #4.  Once the windows were out, I used West System epoxy thickened with
>> low density filler to repair any damage to the gel coat.  Fortunately, all
>> my gel coat damage was limited to the area under the windows.  Once the
>> windows are out and the damage is repaired, the rest is fun and easy.
>>
>>
>>
>> #5.   I cut the new window out of 3/8” Plexiglas using a pattern router
>> bit (sometimes called a Formica trimmer).  I used masking tape folded in
>> half lengthwise to stick the new Plexiglas to the old window (or
>> template).  I ran the tape at right angles to insure that they wouldn’t
>> slide in either direction with respect to each other.  It does a very nice
>> job and is quite easy.  I then used a 1/8” round off router bit on the
>> outside edge of the new window for cosmetic reasons and a 45 degree chamfer
>> bit on the inside edge to make room for the Dow Corning 795 silicone.
>>
>>
>>
>> #6.  I installed the 3M VHB 4991 tape on the coach roof and masked around
>> where I wanted the window to go.  This would help me locate the window and
>> provide the masking for the Dow Corning 795 silicone to follow.  I also
>> masked the edge of the new window for the same reason.
>>
>>
>>
>> #7.  Now cones the tricky part.  You only get one shot with the VHB tape,
>> because once it is down, it is not coming up.  I tried adhering two small
>> pieces of acrylic to each other with about two square inches of VHB tape,
>> and I can assure you, you won’t pull them apart.  VHB is amazing stuff.  As
>> a guide, I mounted two small wooden blocks to the masking take below the
>> window with a small piece of VHB tape.  By attaching it to the masking
>> tape, I was sure I could get it back off.  Actually, VHB doesn’t stick very
>> well to masking tape anyway.  I also stuck a small wooden block to the
>> masking tape at one end of the window as well.  This allowed me to set the
>> window on the two bottom block and then slide it over to the end block
>> before pushing the window into place.  By all means, make several trial
>> runs with the film still on the VHB tape before removing the film.  Once
>> the film is off you are committed.  I pushed the window in place and it
>> looked perfect.  Then it is simply a matter of squirting the Dow Corning
>> stuff into the gap and smoothing it out with a finger.  As soon as the
>> silicon is smoothed out, you can remove the masking tape and pour yourself
>> a stiff one, while you admire the fine job you have done.
>>
>>
>>
>> #8.  There was concern expressed that the VHB tape would be visible
>> through the window, and it was suggested that the window should be painted

Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

For those who were following my post on bonded windows on High Maintenance,
I have an update and many thoughts on the project enumerated below.  I have
successfully installed two windows on the starboard side and replaced the
acrylic on all the hatches and can say that the project has been very
successful.  I have terminated my project at this point as the temperatures
are now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperature of greater
than 60 degrees F for application.  Here are my observations:



#1.  Plexus is evil stuff and should not be allowed on a boat.  It is too
hard and tenacious a bond.  Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a
different expansion coefficient, fracture of the acrylic is assured.
Removing the stuff is impossible without destroying the gel coat
underneath.  I tried a sharp blade between the fiberglass and the acrylic
and all I managed to do was rip up the gel coat.



#2.  Before removing the windows, make a template out of some thin plywood
(or other material) because the window will (no doubt) come out in pieces
and you will have nothing as a reference for making the new windows.



#3.  I finally was successful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router bit
set to a depth equal to the thickness of the acrylic plus the thickness of
the Plexus.  I actually used a Roto-Zip instead of a router as it had a
smaller footprint and was easier to handle.  I free-handed the router to
cut through the acrylic and into the Plexus.  It’s risky but effective.
Don’t cut all the way around the perimeter, but leave tabs to support the
window.  Otherwise, the window will sink under the weight of the router and
you will cut into the gel coat.  You can break out the tabs later.



#4.  Once the windows were out, I used West System epoxy thickened with low
density filler to repair any damage to the gel coat.  Fortunately, all my
gel coat damage was limited to the area under the windows.  Once the
windows are out and the damage is repaired, the rest is fun and easy.



#5.   I cut the new window out of 3/8” Plexiglas using a pattern router bit
(sometimes called a Formica trimmer).  I used masking tape folded in half
lengthwise to stick the new Plexiglas to the old window (or template).  I
ran the tape at right angles to insure that they wouldn’t slide in either
direction with respect to each other.  It does a very nice job and is quite
easy.  I then used a 1/8” round off router bit on the outside edge of the
new window for cosmetic reasons and a 45 degree chamfer bit on the inside
edge to make room for the Dow Corning 795 silicone.



#6.  I installed the 3M VHB 4991 tape on the coach roof and masked around
where I wanted the window to go.  This would help me locate the window and
provide the masking for the Dow Corning 795 silicone to follow.  I also
masked the edge of the new window for the same reason.



#7.  Now cones the tricky part.  You only get one shot with the VHB tape,
because once it is down, it is not coming up.  I tried adhering two small
pieces of acrylic to each other with about two square inches of VHB tape,
and I can assure you, you won’t pull them apart.  VHB is amazing stuff.  As
a guide, I mounted two small wooden blocks to the masking take below the
window with a small piece of VHB tape.  By attaching it to the masking
tape, I was sure I could get it back off.  Actually, VHB doesn’t stick very
well to masking tape anyway.  I also stuck a small wooden block to the
masking tape at one end of the window as well.  This allowed me to set the
window on the two bottom block and then slide it over to the end block
before pushing the window into place.  By all means, make several trial
runs with the film still on the VHB tape before removing the film.  Once
the film is off you are committed.  I pushed the window in place and it
looked perfect.  Then it is simply a matter of squirting the Dow Corning
stuff into the gap and smoothing it out with a finger.  As soon as the
silicon is smoothed out, you can remove the masking tape and pour yourself
a stiff one, while you admire the fine job you have done.



#8.  There was concern expressed that the VHB tape would be visible through
the window, and it was suggested that the window should be painted with
Krylon Fusion Black.  Actually, the VHB tape is the same color as the
Plexus which is not visible, so the VHB won’t be visible either.  No paint
is necessary.  I used the darker shade of grey Plexiglas and can say that
it look spectacular.  The darker shade really “pops” and the contrast is
particularly attractive (in my humble opinion).  The darker color makes it
difficult to see into the boat, but has a minimal effect when looking out.
The VHB is not visible at all.



#9.  There was also concern expressed concerning whether the curvature of
the coach roof would cause a flexing force to peel the VHB tape.  I can say
that the radius of curvature is very large (>20 feet) and the forces are
thus very small.  3/8” acrylic over those lengths 

Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

I'm getting close.  Try this:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwQRSP2fYIFmemxYOGlVcHNUNVk=sharing

Gary

~~~_/)~~


On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 9:01 PM, Gary Russell  wrote:

> Grr!  Still trying to get link to work.
>
> Try this link:
>
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BwQRSP2fYIFmemxYOGlVcHNUNVk
>
> Gary
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 8:57 PM, Gary Russell  wrote:
>
>> Oops!  Try this link:
>>
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwQRSP2fYIFmemxYOGlVcHNUNVk=sharing
>>
>> Gary
>> S/V High Maintenance
>> '90 C 37 Plus
>> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>>
>> ~~~_/)~~
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 8:47 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> For those who were following my post on bonded windows on High
>>> Maintenance, I have an update and many thoughts on the project enumerated
>>> below.  I have successfully installed two windows on the starboard side and
>>> replaced the acrylic on all the hatches and can say that the project has
>>> been very successful.  I have terminated my project at this point as the
>>> temperatures are now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperature
>>> of greater than 60 degrees F for application.  Here are my observations:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #1.  Plexus is evil stuff and should not be allowed on a boat.  It is
>>> too hard and tenacious a bond.  Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a
>>> different expansion coefficient, fracture of the acrylic is assured.
>>> Removing the stuff is impossible without destroying the gel coat
>>> underneath.  I tried a sharp blade between the fiberglass and the acrylic
>>> and all I managed to do was rip up the gel coat.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #2.  Before removing the windows, make a template out of some thin
>>> plywood (or other material) because the window will (no doubt) come out in
>>> pieces and you will have nothing as a reference for making the new windows.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #3.  I finally was successful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router
>>> bit set to a depth equal to the thickness of the acrylic plus the thickness
>>> of the Plexus.  I actually used a Roto-Zip instead of a router as it had a
>>> smaller footprint and was easier to handle.  I free-handed the router to
>>> cut through the acrylic and into the Plexus.  It’s risky but effective.
>>> Don’t cut all the way around the perimeter, but leave tabs to support the
>>> window.  Otherwise, the window will sink under the weight of the router and
>>> you will cut into the gel coat.  You can break out the tabs later.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #4.  Once the windows were out, I used West System epoxy thickened with
>>> low density filler to repair any damage to the gel coat.  Fortunately, all
>>> my gel coat damage was limited to the area under the windows.  Once the
>>> windows are out and the damage is repaired, the rest is fun and easy.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #5.   I cut the new window out of 3/8” Plexiglas using a pattern router
>>> bit (sometimes called a Formica trimmer).  I used masking tape folded in
>>> half lengthwise to stick the new Plexiglas to the old window (or
>>> template).  I ran the tape at right angles to insure that they wouldn’t
>>> slide in either direction with respect to each other.  It does a very nice
>>> job and is quite easy.  I then used a 1/8” round off router bit on the
>>> outside edge of the new window for cosmetic reasons and a 45 degree chamfer
>>> bit on the inside edge to make room for the Dow Corning 795 silicone.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #6.  I installed the 3M VHB 4991 tape on the coach roof and masked
>>> around where I wanted the window to go.  This would help me locate the
>>> window and provide the masking for the Dow Corning 795 silicone to follow.
>>> I also masked the edge of the new window for the same reason.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #7.  Now cones the tricky part.  You only get one shot with the VHB
>>> tape, because once it is down, it is not coming up.  I tried adhering two
>>> small pieces of acrylic to each other with about two square inches of VHB
>>> tape, and I can assure you, you won’t pull them apart.  VHB is amazing
>>> stuff.  As a guide, I mounted two small wooden blocks to the masking take
>>> below the window with a small piece of VHB tape.  By attaching it to the
>>> masking tape, I was sure I could get it back off.  Actually, VHB doesn’t
>>> stick very well to masking tape anyway.  I also stuck a small wooden block
>>> to the masking tape at one end of the window as well.  This allowed me to
>>> set the window on the two bottom block and then slide it over to the end
>>> block before pushing the window into place.  By all means, make several
>>> trial runs with the film still on the VHB tape before removing the film.
>>> Once the film is off you are committed.  I pushed the window in place and
>>> it looked perfect.  Then it is simply a matter of squirting the Dow Corning
>>> stuff into the gap and smoothing it out with a 

Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Nice job and great description!

Joel

On Wednesday, December 2, 2015, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Grr!  Still trying to get link to work.
>
> Try this link:
>
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BwQRSP2fYIFmemxYOGlVcHNUNVk
>
> Gary
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 8:57 PM, Gary Russell  > wrote:
>
>> Oops!  Try this link:
>>
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwQRSP2fYIFmemxYOGlVcHNUNVk=sharing
>>
>> Gary
>> S/V High Maintenance
>> '90 C 37 Plus
>> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>>
>> ~~~_/)~~
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 8:47 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> For those who were following my post on bonded windows on High
>>> Maintenance, I have an update and many thoughts on the project enumerated
>>> below.  I have successfully installed two windows on the starboard side and
>>> replaced the acrylic on all the hatches and can say that the project has
>>> been very successful.  I have terminated my project at this point as the
>>> temperatures are now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperature
>>> of greater than 60 degrees F for application.  Here are my observations:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #1.  Plexus is evil stuff and should not be allowed on a boat.  It is
>>> too hard and tenacious a bond.  Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a
>>> different expansion coefficient, fracture of the acrylic is assured.
>>> Removing the stuff is impossible without destroying the gel coat
>>> underneath.  I tried a sharp blade between the fiberglass and the acrylic
>>> and all I managed to do was rip up the gel coat.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #2.  Before removing the windows, make a template out of some thin
>>> plywood (or other material) because the window will (no doubt) come out in
>>> pieces and you will have nothing as a reference for making the new windows.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #3.  I finally was successful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router
>>> bit set to a depth equal to the thickness of the acrylic plus the thickness
>>> of the Plexus.  I actually used a Roto-Zip instead of a router as it had a
>>> smaller footprint and was easier to handle.  I free-handed the router to
>>> cut through the acrylic and into the Plexus.  It’s risky but effective.
>>> Don’t cut all the way around the perimeter, but leave tabs to support the
>>> window.  Otherwise, the window will sink under the weight of the router and
>>> you will cut into the gel coat.  You can break out the tabs later.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #4.  Once the windows were out, I used West System epoxy thickened with
>>> low density filler to repair any damage to the gel coat.  Fortunately, all
>>> my gel coat damage was limited to the area under the windows.  Once the
>>> windows are out and the damage is repaired, the rest is fun and easy.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #5.   I cut the new window out of 3/8” Plexiglas using a pattern router
>>> bit (sometimes called a Formica trimmer).  I used masking tape folded in
>>> half lengthwise to stick the new Plexiglas to the old window (or
>>> template).  I ran the tape at right angles to insure that they wouldn’t
>>> slide in either direction with respect to each other.  It does a very nice
>>> job and is quite easy.  I then used a 1/8” round off router bit on the
>>> outside edge of the new window for cosmetic reasons and a 45 degree chamfer
>>> bit on the inside edge to make room for the Dow Corning 795 silicone.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #6.  I installed the 3M VHB 4991 tape on the coach roof and masked
>>> around where I wanted the window to go.  This would help me locate the
>>> window and provide the masking for the Dow Corning 795 silicone to follow.
>>> I also masked the edge of the new window for the same reason.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #7.  Now cones the tricky part.  You only get one shot with the VHB
>>> tape, because once it is down, it is not coming up.  I tried adhering two
>>> small pieces of acrylic to each other with about two square inches of VHB
>>> tape, and I can assure you, you won’t pull them apart.  VHB is amazing
>>> stuff.  As a guide, I mounted two small wooden blocks to the masking take
>>> below the window with a small piece of VHB tape.  By attaching it to the
>>> masking tape, I was sure I could get it back off.  Actually, VHB doesn’t
>>> stick very well to masking tape anyway.  I also stuck a small wooden block
>>> to the masking tape at one end of the window as well.  This allowed me to
>>> set the window on the two bottom block and then slide it over to the end
>>> block before pushing the window into place.  By all means, make several
>>> trial runs with the film still on the VHB tape before removing the film.
>>> Once the film is off you are committed.  I pushed the window in place and
>>> it looked perfect.  Then it is simply a matter of squirting the Dow Corning
>>> stuff into