Stus-List Catharsis message

[Francois Rivard via CnC-List]

Hi Dave,

I'm truly sorry.. It happens, most of us can confess to bottoming out.  I
my 5 years I've run aground twice here on the lake in much less challenging
situations. I was fortunate the bottom here is mostly mud.

I know how stuffs gets a bit crazy as you cross the finish line in less
than ideal conditions, my only crash jibe (Broke a Cunningham shackle)
happened at a regatta where the finish line was a bit too close to shore in
a fairly stiff wind..

As for preventive measures: My always there, permanently mounted B
plotter has saved my bacon countless times. The fact that it plots
optimized laylines and gives you tack for tack VMG analysis doesn't hurt
the racing either :-)

Best of luck with the repairs, make sure the fiberglass repairs are done
with real Isophtalic resin (Not the cheap orthophtalic stuff everybody
uses) and Kevlar mat as per the original layup.

-Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA


rom: David Knecht
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 11:18 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list
Subject: Stus-List Catharsis message

It is a sad morning here and I need some help to drag me out of my
depression.  This list is my support group, advisers, experts and
therapists.  Or maybe you will kick my butt for being an idiot and that
could help as well.  Aries had a serious grounding on a reef on Saturday
and is currently awaiting insurance to start assessing the situation.  We
were barely towed off the reef by SeaTow and the boat is on the hard at a
local marina.  The damage is worse than I had hoped and better than it
could have been.  When they were able to pull us off the lip of the reef
(tide going out, getting desperate) the rudder hit the reef and bent the
shaft, damaged the hull around the shaft and pushed the rear tip of the
rudder up through the hull.The bottom of the wing keel is also chewed
up from grinding on the reef.  That sound of hull grinding over rock is now
forever seared into my brain.  South Shore yachts actually lists the rudder
on their site (thanks to the list for making me aware of their C parts),
and I am hoping there is nothing else damaged that was not obvious.  No one
was hurt, except my pride and confidence.  Leaving the marina, I now have
an appreciation for the emotions of people who abandon their floating homes
at sea.  At least I will hopefully get mine back.

I have gone over the incident a thousand times trying to understand what
happened and how I could have prevented it.  I thought I was hyperaware of
all the hazards in the Fishers Island Sound area and swore that I would
never ground the boat again after an incident with an unmarked reef during
a race a few years ago.  I try to race with a priority of safety, fun and
speed, in that order.  I almost always have crew who are not sailors other
than racing with me, which I enjoy, but takes some of my focus away from
other things.  We had spent the day in a long race all over Fishers Island
sound.  It was blowing 15+ and we had worked very hard to get around the
course and the last leg was a straight downwind sprint to the finish
heading due North toward the CT coast.  With 3 inexperienced crew I was
happy that we were in second place in our class and focused on getting to
the line.  We crossed the line, then jibed over to head back west to
parallel the coast to our home port of New London and had just taken a deep
breath, congratulated the crew when we hit the reef.  It turns out that the
Race Committee had set the finish line inshore and just East of the single
offshore buoy marking Horseshoe Reef.  I never saw (or recognized) the buoy
because it was behind the mainsail as we approached the finish and I was
looking for the finish line, not other buoys.  By the time we jibed, it was
essentially over my shoulder.  I did not see the buoy until I looked around
when we hit the reef and realized where we were.  A hundred yards inshore
and we would have been fine and a hundred yards offshore and we would have
seen the buoy and passed the correct side of it.  I think the Race
Committee deserves some part of the blame for setting the finish line in a
dangerous location but certainly my lack of awareness of where I was
relative to dangers (of which there are many in Fishers Island Sound) was
the major factor.  If I had looked carefully at the chart at any point, I
presume I would have recognized the danger of the finishing area, but we
were closely following the lead boat and so our location was not an issue
until we finished. I was in familiar waters but I just did not recognize
precisely where I was in familiar waters.  The other boats near us turned
East while we turned West so we were not following anyone after the turn.

If anyone has any suggestions, comments or strategies to help prevent this,
I am all ears.  A moments inattention is all it took and it makes me
concerned about several factors- age, racing with non-sailor crew, racing
in general.   In our Wednesday night races, we race aroun

Re: Stus-List Catharsis message

[Patrick H. Wesley via CnC-List]

This story reminds me of the saying “There are skippers who admit to having
gone aground and all the others are liars”! Patrick Wesley The Boat Sidney
BC
On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 9:29 PM T Sutton via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Hi David, Sorry to hear of your mishap but it does happen to the rest of
> us as well.  When it happened to me (our anchor let go in a storm while at
> anchor) my rudder was beat up pretty good and by the time I made it home
> there was only half of it left.  Instead of South Shore I got a new rudder
> from Competition Composites Inc. near Ottawa Ontario.  I think it is a
> better made product and when dealing with insurance they used the quote
> from South Shore for the value and CCI was enough cheaper to cover the
> deductible and most of my expenses for a trip to Ottawa to pick it up.  I
> sent the old one up then picked the new one up  couple weeks later.  My
> post wasn’t bent so I reused but if yours is bent you might be able to get
> a carbon fibre replacement.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tom S
>
> *From:* David Knecht
> *Sent:* Monday, July 16, 2018 11:18 AM
> *To:* CnC CnC discussion list
> *Subject:* Stus-List Catharsis message
>
> It is a sad morning here and I need some help to drag me out of my
> depression.  This list is my support group, advisers, experts and
> therapists.  Or maybe you will kick my butt for being an idiot and that
> could help as well.  Aries had a serious grounding on a reef on Saturday
> and is currently awaiting insurance to start assessing the situation.  We
> were barely towed off the reef by SeaTow and the boat is on the hard at a
> local marina.  The damage is worse than I had hoped and better than it
> could have been.  When they were able to pull us off the lip of the reef
> (tide going out, getting desperate) the rudder hit the reef and bent the
> shaft, damaged the hull around the shaft and pushed the rear tip of the
> rudder up through the hull.The bottom of the wing keel is also chewed
> up from grinding on the reef.  That sound of hull grinding over rock is now
> forever seared into my brain.  South Shore yachts actually lists the rudder
> on their site (thanks to the list for making me aware of their C parts),
> and I am hoping there is nothing else damaged that was not obvious.  No one
> was hurt, except my pride and confidence.  Leaving the marina, I now have
> an appreciation for the emotions of people who abandon their floating homes
> at sea.  At least I will hopefully get mine back.
>
> I have gone over the incident a thousand times trying to understand what
> happened and how I could have prevented it.  I thought I was hyperaware of
> all the hazards in the Fishers Island Sound area and swore that I would
> never ground the boat again after an incident with an unmarked reef during
> a race a few years ago.  I try to race with a priority of safety, fun and
> speed, in that order.  I almost always have crew who are not sailors other
> than racing with me, which I enjoy, but takes some of my focus away from
> other things.  We had spent the day in a long race all over Fishers Island
> sound.  It was blowing 15+ and we had worked very hard to get around the
> course and the last leg was a straight downwind sprint to the finish
> heading due North toward the CT coast.  With 3 inexperienced crew I was
> happy that we were in second place in our class and focused on getting to
> the line.  We crossed the line, then jibed over to head back west to
> parallel the coast to our home port of New London and had just taken a deep
> breath, congratulated the crew when we hit the reef.  It turns out that the
> Race Committee had set the finish line inshore and just East of the single
> offshore buoy marking Horseshoe Reef.  I never saw (or recognized) the buoy
> because it was behind the mainsail as we approached the finish and I was
> looking for the finish line, not other buoys.  By the time we jibed, it was
> essentially over my shoulder.  I did not see the buoy until I looked around
> when we hit the reef and realized where we were.  A hundred yards inshore
> and we would have been fine and a hundred yards offshore and we would have
> seen the buoy and passed the correct side of it.  I think the Race
> Committee deserves some part of the blame for setting the finish line in a
> dangerous location but certainly my lack of awareness of where I was
> relative to dangers (of which there are many in Fishers Island Sound) was
> the major factor.  If I had looked carefully at the chart at any point, I
> presume I would have recognized the danger of the finishing area, but we
> were closely following the lead boat and so our location was not an issue
> until we finished. I was in familiar waters but I just did not recognize
> precisely where I was in fa

Re: Stus-List Catharsis message

[T Sutton via CnC-List]

Hi David, Sorry to hear of your mishap but it does happen to the rest of us as 
well.  When it happened to me (our anchor let go in a storm while at anchor) my 
rudder was beat up pretty good and by the time I made it home there was only 
half of it left.  Instead of South Shore I got a new rudder from Competition 
Composites Inc. near Ottawa Ontario.  I think it is a better made product and 
when dealing with insurance they used the quote from South Shore for the value 
and CCI was enough cheaper to cover the deductible and most of my expenses for 
a trip to Ottawa to pick it up.  I sent the old one up then picked the new one 
up  couple weeks later.  My post wasn’t bent so I reused but if yours is bent 
you might be able to get a carbon fibre replacement.

Cheers,

Tom S

From: David Knecht 
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 11:18 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Subject: Stus-List Catharsis message

It is a sad morning here and I need some help to drag me out of my depression.  
This list is my support group, advisers, experts and therapists.  Or maybe you 
will kick my butt for being an idiot and that could help as well.  Aries had a 
serious grounding on a reef on Saturday and is currently awaiting insurance to 
start assessing the situation.  We were barely towed off the reef by SeaTow and 
the boat is on the hard at a local marina.  The damage is worse than I had 
hoped and better than it could have been.  When they were able to pull us off 
the lip of the reef (tide going out, getting desperate) the rudder hit the reef 
and bent the shaft, damaged the hull around the shaft and pushed the rear tip 
of the rudder up through the hull.The bottom of the wing keel is also 
chewed up from grinding on the reef.  That sound of hull grinding over rock is 
now forever seared into my brain.  South Shore yachts actually lists the rudder 
on their site (thanks to the list for making me aware of their C parts), and 
I am hoping there is nothing else damaged that was not obvious.  No one was 
hurt, except my pride and confidence.  Leaving the marina, I now have an 
appreciation for the emotions of people who abandon their floating homes at 
sea.  At least I will hopefully get mine back. 

I have gone over the incident a thousand times trying to understand what 
happened and how I could have prevented it.  I thought I was hyperaware of all 
the hazards in the Fishers Island Sound area and swore that I would never 
ground the boat again after an incident with an unmarked reef during a race a 
few years ago.  I try to race with a priority of safety, fun and speed, in that 
order.  I almost always have crew who are not sailors other than racing with 
me, which I enjoy, but takes some of my focus away from other things.  We had 
spent the day in a long race all over Fishers Island sound.  It was blowing 15+ 
and we had worked very hard to get around the course and the last leg was a 
straight downwind sprint to the finish heading due North toward the CT coast.  
With 3 inexperienced crew I was happy that we were in second place in our class 
and focused on getting to the line.  We crossed the line, then jibed over to 
head back west to parallel the coast to our home port of New London and had 
just taken a deep breath, congratulated the crew when we hit the reef.  It 
turns out that the Race Committee had set the finish line inshore and just East 
of the single offshore buoy marking Horseshoe Reef.  I never saw (or 
recognized) the buoy because it was behind the mainsail as we approached the 
finish and I was looking for the finish line, not other buoys.  By the time we 
jibed, it was essentially over my shoulder.  I did not see the buoy until I 
looked around when we hit the reef and realized where we were.  A hundred yards 
inshore and we would have been fine and a hundred yards offshore and we would 
have seen the buoy and passed the correct side of it.  I think the Race 
Committee deserves some part of the blame for setting the finish line in a 
dangerous location but certainly my lack of awareness of where I was relative 
to dangers (of which there are many in Fishers Island Sound) was the major 
factor.  If I had looked carefully at the chart at any point, I presume I would 
have recognized the danger of the finishing area, but we were closely following 
the lead boat and so our location was not an issue until we finished. I was in 
familiar waters but I just did not recognize precisely where I was in familiar 
waters.  The other boats near us turned East while we turned West so we were 
not following anyone after the turn.  

If anyone has any suggestions, comments or strategies to help prevent this, I 
am all ears.  A moments inattention is all it took and it makes me concerned 
about several factors- age, racing with non-sailor crew, racing in general.   
In our Wednesday night races, we race around the same marks every week, and it 
has taken time, but I now think I know every hazard and am aware of where we

Re: Stus-List Catharsis message

[robert via CnC-List]

Ken,
Just curiouswas "john" on the K30', John Astephen from North 
Sydneyif yes, I learned to sail on Snipes with the Astephen family 
from the Northern Yacht Club there.a long time go.


Regards

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 -84
Halifax, N.S.

On 2018-07-18 4:30 PM, Ken Heaton via CnC-List wrote:
I've been aground a number of times but they are all pretty mundane 
stories.  Still, I'll add one more to the conversation.


We're racing in the Bras d'Or Lake.  I'm crewing on a friend's C 35 
Mk.1 ( Draft:5' 3'' ).  We're sailing along, parallel to the shore and 
are slowly being overtaken by a Kirby 30 ( Draft: 5' 9'' ) with a 
crack crew on board who are inshore of us.  Both of us are rapidly 
overtaking a Tanzer 26 ahead.  Coincidentally, we are just off of our 
skipper's summer home so we know this stretch of shore very well.


Shortly before the Kirby 30 has an overlap on us from astern I start a 
casual conversation with the Kirby's skipper, John.


Me: "Great day for racing."

John: "Yes it is"

Me: "We are certainly gaining on Bill up there."

John: "We sure are."

Me: "You do realise he's aground ( on the sandbar off the point ),
don't you?"

John: " ... "

John: "Prepare to tack!" ... "Helm's down"

John: "Thanks Ken."

Me: "No problem"


The Tanzer 26 received the 'Dr. Shoals Trophy' at the regatta's awards 
ceremony.  The Kirby 30 still beat us...


Ken H.


On Wed, 18 Jul 2018 at 12:53, Danny Haughey via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Edd,

thanks for this story you cracked me up!!!

Danny


On 7/18/2018 11:27 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List wrote:

I figure this would be a good time to share a story about when
the Enterprise-A, a 1978 C 34 which was co-owned by both my
father and I, hit a rock formation off of City Island.

On the afternoon before a Wednesday Night Race, I’m in my office
and I get a call from my bottom cleaner:

“Edd, what are you doing? Pushing all the rocks out to the middle
of the Sound?”
“What?!!”
“Yeah, you hit something big.”
The weekend prior, my father took his girlfriend, whom we later
nicknamed “The Crusher” (no reference to Wesley), on a short
overnight cruise to Greenwich Harbor.
“No, I did not,” I told the cleaner. “But I bet I know who did.”

Before hanging up, he told me it’s bad and I should get the boat
hauled. My next call was to the yard telling them I’ll be
bringing the Enterprise over that evening to be hauled, inspected
and repaired. I then dialed the old man. The conversation went
like this:

“Eddie? How are you?”
“I’m fine, Dad. How are you?”
“Good. Looking forward to tonight’s race. What’s up?”
“Did you have a good time with your girlfriend on the Enterprise
this past weekend?”
“Yes, we did. Thanks for asking. Weather was perfect.”
“That’s wonderful to hear. I’m happy for you. Say… when you guys
were out there, did you, oh I don’t know, happen to HIT ANYTHING?!!”
Silence. Then: “Well, on our way to the mooring, we kinda hit Big
Tom.”
“Kinda??!!”
“Yeah. She was driving and I was lowering the headsail. We went
straight into it. Pretty hard. I looked below and didn’t see any
water coming in so I thought it was OK.”
Note: Big Tom is a rock almost 200 yards due west off the
southern tip of City Island. It is surrounded by three buoys. If
you enter the triangle, you may hit it. Stay outside the triangle
and you’re safe. Only idiots hit Big Tom. The conversation continued:
“It’s not OK. Diver says big damage. We are bringing the boat
over to the yard tonight.”
More silence. Then: “Oh. OK.”
“What happened to all those times when I was a kid and you told
me that if I do something wrong, I won’t get in trouble if I own
up to it ahead of time?”
A longer pause. “Well that only really applied to you…”
“Bye Dad.”

When the yard brought the boat into the slings the next morning,
they said there was water above the floorboards. The front of the
keel was damaged and the hull behind it was cracked and loose
(the keel bent in, then snapped back, making big cracks). $9,000
in damage and several weeks out of commission. Thank God for
insurance.

Sad at the time, but we do laugh about it now. As others have
said, just be thankful nobody was hurt.

All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log




On 7/16/2018 11:18 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List wrote:

It is a sad morning here and I need some help to drag me out of
my depression.  This list is my support group, advisers, experts
and therapists.  Or maybe you will kick my butt for being an
idiot and that could help as well.  Aries had a serious
grounding on a reef on 

Re: Stus-List Catharsis message

[Ken Heaton via CnC-List]

I've been aground a number of times but they are all pretty mundane
stories.  Still, I'll add one more to the conversation.

We're racing in the Bras d'Or Lake.  I'm crewing on a friend's C 35 Mk.1 (
Draft: 5' 3'' ).  We're sailing along, parallel to the shore and are slowly
being overtaken by a Kirby 30 ( Draft: 5' 9'' ) with a crack crew on board
who are inshore of us.  Both of us are rapidly overtaking a Tanzer 26
ahead.  Coincidentally, we are just off of our skipper's summer home so we
know this stretch of shore very well.

Shortly before the Kirby 30 has an overlap on us from astern I start a
casual conversation with the Kirby's skipper, John.

Me: "Great day for racing."

John: "Yes it is"

Me: "We are certainly gaining on Bill up there."

John: "We sure are."

Me: "You do realise he's aground ( on the sandbar off the point ), don't
you?"

John: " ... "

John: "Prepare to tack!" ... "Helm's down"

John: "Thanks Ken."

Me: "No problem"


The Tanzer 26 received the 'Dr. Shoals Trophy' at the regatta's awards
ceremony.  The Kirby 30 still beat us...

Ken H.


On Wed, 18 Jul 2018 at 12:53, Danny Haughey via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Edd,
>
> thanks for this story you cracked me up!!!
>
> Danny
>
> On 7/18/2018 11:27 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List wrote:
>
> I figure this would be a good time to share a story about when the
> Enterprise-A, a 1978 C 34 which was co-owned by both my father and I, hit
> a rock formation off of City Island.
>
> On the afternoon before a Wednesday Night Race, I’m in my office and I get
> a call from my bottom cleaner:
>
> “Edd, what are you doing? Pushing all the rocks out to the middle of the
> Sound?”
> “What?!!”
> “Yeah, you hit something big.”
> The weekend prior, my father took his girlfriend, whom we later nicknamed
> “The Crusher” (no reference to Wesley), on a short overnight cruise to
> Greenwich Harbor.
> “No, I did not,” I told the cleaner. “But I bet I know who did.”
>
> Before hanging up, he told me it’s bad and I should get the boat hauled.
> My next call was to the yard telling them I’ll be bringing the Enterprise
> over that evening to be hauled, inspected and repaired. I then dialed the
> old man. The conversation went like this:
>
> “Eddie? How are you?”
> “I’m fine, Dad. How are you?”
> “Good. Looking forward to tonight’s race. What’s up?”
> “Did you have a good time with your girlfriend on the Enterprise this past
> weekend?”
> “Yes, we did. Thanks for asking. Weather was perfect.”
> “That’s wonderful to hear. I’m happy for you. Say… when you guys were out
> there, did you, oh I don’t know, happen to HIT ANYTHING?!!”
> Silence. Then: “Well, on our way to the mooring, we kinda hit Big Tom.”
> “Kinda??!!”
> “Yeah. She was driving and I was lowering the headsail. We went straight
> into it. Pretty hard. I looked below and didn’t see any water coming in so
> I thought it was OK.”
> Note: Big Tom is a rock almost 200 yards due west off the southern tip of
> City Island. It is surrounded by three buoys. If you enter the triangle,
> you may hit it. Stay outside the triangle and you’re safe. Only idiots hit
> Big Tom. The conversation continued:
> “It’s not OK. Diver says big damage. We are bringing the boat over to the
> yard tonight.”
> More silence. Then: “Oh. OK.”
> “What happened to all those times when I was a kid and you told me that if
> I do something wrong, I won’t get in trouble if I own up to it ahead of
> time?”
> A longer pause. “Well that only really applied to you…”
> “Bye Dad.”
>
> When the yard brought the boat into the slings the next morning, they said
> there was water above the floorboards. The front of the keel was damaged
> and the hull behind it was cracked and loose (the keel bent in, then
> snapped back, making big cracks). $9,000 in damage and several weeks out of
> commission. Thank God for insurance.
>
> Sad at the time, but we do laugh about it now. As others have said, just
> be thankful nobody was hurt.
>
> All the best,
>
> Edd
>
>
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, NY
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>
>
>
> On 7/16/2018 11:18 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List wrote:
>
> It is a sad morning here and I need some help to drag me out of my
> depression.  This list is my support group, advisers, experts and
> therapists.  Or maybe you will kick my butt for being an idiot and that
> could help as well.  Aries had a serious grounding on a reef on Saturday
> and is currently awaiting insurance to start assessing the situation.  We
> were barely towed off the reef by SeaTow and the boat is on the hard at a
> local marina.  The damage is worse than I had hoped and better than it
> could have been.  When they were able to pull us off the lip of the reef
> (tide going out, getting desperate) the rudder hit the reef and bent the
> shaft, damaged the hull around the shaft and pushed the rear tip of the
> rudder up through the hull.The 

Re: Stus-List Catharsis message

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

Edd,

thanks for this story you cracked me up!!!

Danny


On 7/18/2018 11:27 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List wrote:
I figure this would be a good time to share a story about when the 
Enterprise-A, a 1978 C 34 which was co-owned by both my father and 
I, hit a rock formation off of City Island.


On the afternoon before a Wednesday Night Race, I’m in my office and I 
get a call from my bottom cleaner:


“Edd, what are you doing? Pushing all the rocks out to the middle of 
the Sound?”

“What?!!”
“Yeah, you hit something big.”
The weekend prior, my father took his girlfriend, whom we later 
nicknamed “The Crusher” (no reference to Wesley), on a short overnight 
cruise to Greenwich Harbor.

“No, I did not,” I told the cleaner. “But I bet I know who did.”

Before hanging up, he told me it’s bad and I should get the boat 
hauled. My next call was to the yard telling them I’ll be bringing the 
Enterprise over that evening to be hauled, inspected and repaired. I 
then dialed the old man. The conversation went like this:


“Eddie? How are you?”
“I’m fine, Dad. How are you?”
“Good. Looking forward to tonight’s race. What’s up?”
“Did you have a good time with your girlfriend on the Enterprise this 
past weekend?”

“Yes, we did. Thanks for asking. Weather was perfect.”
“That’s wonderful to hear. I’m happy for you. Say… when you guys were 
out there, did you, oh I don’t know, happen to HIT ANYTHING?!!”

Silence. Then: “Well, on our way to the mooring, we kinda hit Big Tom.”
“Kinda??!!”
“Yeah. She was driving and I was lowering the headsail. We went 
straight into it. Pretty hard. I looked below and didn’t see any water 
coming in so I thought it was OK.”
Note: Big Tom is a rock almost 200 yards due west off the southern tip 
of City Island. It is surrounded by three buoys. If you enter the 
triangle, you may hit it. Stay outside the triangle and you’re safe. 
Only idiots hit Big Tom. The conversation continued:
“It’s not OK. Diver says big damage. We are bringing the boat over to 
the yard tonight.”

More silence. Then: “Oh. OK.”
“What happened to all those times when I was a kid and you told me 
that if I do something wrong, I won’t get in trouble if I own up to it 
ahead of time?”

A longer pause. “Well that only really applied to you…”
“Bye Dad.”

When the yard brought the boat into the slings the next morning, they 
said there was water above the floorboards. The front of the keel was 
damaged and the hull behind it was cracked and loose (the keel bent 
in, then snapped back, making big cracks). $9,000 in damage and 
several weeks out of commission. Thank God for insurance.


Sad at the time, but we do laugh about it now. As others have said, 
just be thankful nobody was hurt.


All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 



On 7/16/2018 11:18 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List wrote:
It is a sad morning here and I need some help to drag me out of my 
depression.  This list is my support group, advisers, experts and 
therapists.  Or maybe you will kick my butt for being an idiot and 
that could help as well.  Aries had a serious grounding on a reef on 
Saturday and is currently awaiting insurance to start assessing the 
situation.  We were barely towed off the reef by SeaTow and the boat 
is on the hard at a local marina.  The damage is worse than I had 
hoped and better than it could have been.  When they were able to 
pull us off the lip of the reef (tide going out, getting desperate) 
the rudder hit the reef and bent the shaft, damaged the hull around 
the shaft and pushed the rear tip of the rudder up through the hull. 
   The bottom of the wing keel is also chewed up from grinding on the 
reef.  That sound of hull grinding over rock is now forever seared 
into my brain.  South Shore yachts actually lists the rudder on their 
site (thanks to the list for making me aware of their C parts), and 
I am hoping there is nothing else damaged that was not obvious.  No 
one was hurt, except my pride and confidence.  Leaving the marina, I 
now have an appreciation for the emotions of people who abandon their 
floating homes at sea.  At least I will hopefully get mine back.


I have gone over the incident a thousand times trying to understand 
what happened and how I could have prevented it.  I thought I was 
hyperaware of all the hazards in the Fishers Island Sound area and 
swore that I would never ground the boat again after an incident with 
an unmarked reef during a race a few years ago.  I try to race with a 
priority of safety, fun and speed, in that order.  I almost always 
have crew who are not sailors other than racing with me, which I 
enjoy, but takes some of my focus away from other things.  We had 
spent the day in a long race all over Fishers Island sound.  It was 
blowing 15+ and we had worked very hard to get around the course and 
the last leg was a straight downwind sprint to the 

Re: Stus-List Catharsis message

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

I figure this would be a good time to share a story about when the 
Enterprise-A, a 1978 C 34 which was co-owned by both my father and I, hit a 
rock formation off of City Island. 

On the afternoon before a Wednesday Night Race, I’m in my office and I get a 
call from my bottom cleaner: 

“Edd, what are you doing? Pushing all the rocks out to the middle of the 
Sound?” 
“What?!!”
“Yeah, you hit something big.”
The weekend prior, my father took his girlfriend, whom we later nicknamed “The 
Crusher” (no reference to Wesley), on a short overnight cruise to Greenwich 
Harbor. 
“No, I did not,” I told the cleaner. “But I bet I know who did.” 

Before hanging up, he told me it’s bad and I should get the boat hauled. My 
next call was to the yard telling them I’ll be bringing the Enterprise over 
that evening to be hauled, inspected and repaired. I then dialed the old man. 
The conversation went like this:

“Eddie? How are you?”
“I’m fine, Dad. How are you?”
“Good. Looking forward to tonight’s race. What’s up?”
“Did you have a good time with your girlfriend on the Enterprise this past 
weekend?”
“Yes, we did. Thanks for asking. Weather was perfect.”
“That’s wonderful to hear. I’m happy for you. Say… when you guys were out 
there, did you, oh I don’t know, happen to HIT ANYTHING?!!”
Silence. Then: “Well, on our way to the mooring, we kinda hit Big Tom.” 
“Kinda??!!”
“Yeah. She was driving and I was lowering the headsail. We went straight into 
it. Pretty hard. I looked below and didn’t see any water coming in so I thought 
it was OK.”
Note: Big Tom is a rock almost 200 yards due west off the southern tip of City 
Island. It is surrounded by three buoys. If you enter the triangle, you may hit 
it. Stay outside the triangle and you’re safe. Only idiots hit Big Tom. The 
conversation continued:
“It’s not OK. Diver says big damage. We are bringing the boat over to the yard 
tonight.”
More silence. Then: “Oh. OK.”
“What happened to all those times when I was a kid and you told me that if I do 
something wrong, I won’t get in trouble if I own up to it ahead of time?”
A longer pause. “Well that only really applied to you…”
“Bye Dad.” 

When the yard brought the boat into the slings the next morning, they said 
there was water above the floorboards. The front of the keel was damaged and 
the hull behind it was cracked and loose (the keel bent in, then snapped back, 
making big cracks). $9,000 in damage and several weeks out of commission. Thank 
God for insurance. 

Sad at the time, but we do laugh about it now. As others have said, just be 
thankful nobody was hurt. 

All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 









On 7/16/2018 11:18 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List wrote:
> It is a sad morning here and I need some help to drag me out of my 
> depression.  This list is my support group, advisers, experts and therapists. 
>  Or maybe you will kick my butt for being an idiot and that could help as 
> well.  Aries had a serious grounding on a reef on Saturday and is currently 
> awaiting insurance to start assessing the situation.  We were barely towed 
> off the reef by SeaTow and the boat is on the hard at a local marina.  The 
> damage is worse than I had hoped and better than it could have been.  When 
> they were able to pull us off the lip of the reef (tide going out, getting 
> desperate) the rudder hit the reef and bent the shaft, damaged the hull 
> around the shaft and pushed the rear tip of the rudder up through the hull.   
>  The bottom of the wing keel is also chewed up from grinding on the reef.  
> That sound of hull grinding over rock is now forever seared into my brain.  
> South Shore yachts actually lists the rudder on their site (thanks to the 
> list for making me aware of their C parts), and I am hoping there is 
> nothing else damaged that was not obvious.  No one was hurt, except my pride 
> and confidence.  Leaving the marina, I now have an appreciation for the 
> emotions of people who abandon their floating homes at sea.  At least I will 
> hopefully get mine back.
> 
> I have gone over the incident a thousand times trying to understand what 
> happened and how I could have prevented it.  I thought I was hyperaware of 
> all the hazards in the Fishers Island Sound area and swore that I would never 
> ground the boat again after an incident with an unmarked reef during a race a 
> few years ago.  I try to race with a priority of safety, fun and speed, in 
> that order.  I almost always have crew who are not sailors other than racing 
> with me, which I enjoy, but takes some of my focus away from other things.  
> We had spent the day in a long race all over Fishers Island sound.  It was 
> blowing 15+ and we had worked very hard to get around the course and the last 
> leg was a straight downwind sprint to the finish heading due North toward the 
> CT coast.  

Re: Stus-List Catharsis message

[schiller via CnC-List]

Back when Lake Michigan was at low water levels, we got our Redwing 35 
stuck in the Black River (South Haven, Michigan) when we wandered out of 
the natural river channel.  It was just a sand bottom but we were stuck 
pretty good and nothing we tried was working.  A rather large power boat 
stopped and we were just going to throw him a line to let him pull us 
off when a guy in an inflatable motored up and said "hang on, I'll get 
you off".  I offered to throw him a line and he just said "no thanks, 
I've got this".  He pulled the inflatable around to the bow and wedged 
his bow under ours and goosed the throttle.  We felt the bow lift up and 
we immediately started moving backwards off the sand bar.  He said he 
has used the technique several times and it always works.  It wasn't a 
big inflatable and he only had about a 6 hp motor.  We decided after 
that event to pay the big bucks and get a slip below the bridge where 
dredging is not an issue.


I have relayed this story several times and was even able to help a boat 
using the same technique.  It works!


Neil Schiller
1983 C 35-3, #028
"Grace"
Whitehall, Michigan
WLYC

On 7/17/2018 11:20 PM, Randy Stafford via CnC-List wrote:
I feel stupid saying this because it’s trivial, but there’s a sandbar 
(actually submerged extension of a peninsula) in my lake that I’ve hit 
with every goddamned sailboat I’ve sailed there, from a Coronado 15 
dinghy with the centerboard up to J/22s and Merit 25s and yes even my 
C 30 MK I.  Fortunately the bottom is mud/sand so no damage is done 
but it’s embarrassing as hell to get stuck there because it’s right 
across from the marina channel, in view of a long dock with about 40 
slips on it.  That happens to be my dock and I know my dockmates sit 
out there and watch people getting stuck and unstuck just for 
entertainment.  I wouldn’t be surprised if they started holding up 
score numbers like in diving or gymnastics or ice skating.  One time 
when I got Grenadine stuck there I jumped in the water and tried 
unsuccessfully to push her off as my passengers heeled the boat.  I 
had to get the park rangers to pull me off.


Another grounding story: one time chartering in the Grenadines, while 
anchored at Saltwhistle Bay, Mayreau, we witnessed a 28-foot sailboat 
run aground on some rocks on the south side of the bay, coming in. 
 The locals rushed over in runabouts to heel the boat by her halyards 
and pull her off - perhaps a common occurrence with an easy payday for 
them.  Turns out the boat’s company was two young Swedish couples who 
had sailed all the way from Sweden - down the North Sea, English 
Channel, Bay of Biscay, Portugal and African coasts to Cape Verde, 
where they turned west and crossed to the Windwards, only to run 
aground coming into Saltwhistle Bay.


Cheers,
Randy
S/V Grenadine
C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO

On Jul 17, 2018, at 6:29 PM, Dave S via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Sorry to hear about the grounding Gary.  I guess 
distraction/familiarity can hurt any of us.
Thanks for the reminder - for my commute tomorrow - where speeds and 
risk are much greater.  The boat can be fixed, am very thankful that 
pride was the only human casualty.


Dave

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 17, 2018, at 1:17 PM, Gary Russell > wrote:



HI Dave,
     Don't beat yourself up too hard.  I am told "There are only two 
kinds of sailors... Those who have run aground and those who lie".  
Thankfully, everyone is safe!  That's the important thing.  Good 
luck with the repairs.


Gary
S/V Kaylarah
'90 C 37+
East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~


On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 11:18 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


It is a sad morning here and I need some help to drag me out of
my depression. This list is my support group, advisers, experts
and therapists.  Or maybe you will kick my butt for being an
idiot and that could help as well.  Aries had a serious
grounding on a reef on Saturday and is currently awaiting
insurance to start assessing the situation.  We were barely
towed off the reef by SeaTow and the boat is on the hard at a
local marina.  The damage is worse than I had hoped and better
than it could have been.  When they were able to pull us off the
lip of the reef (tide going out, getting desperate) the rudder
hit the reef and bent the shaft, damaged the hull around the
shaft and pushed the rear tip of the rudder up through the hull.
   The bottom of the wing keel is also chewed up from grinding
on the reef.  That sound of hull grinding over rock is now
forever seared into my brain.  South Shore yachts actually lists
the rudder on their site (thanks to the list for making me aware
of their C parts), and I am hoping there is nothing else
damaged that was not obvious.  No one was hurt, except my pride
and confidence.  Leaving the marina, I now have an appreciation

Re: Stus-List Catharsis message

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

I feel stupid saying this because it’s trivial, but there’s a sandbar (actually 
submerged extension of a peninsula) in my lake that I’ve hit with every 
goddamned sailboat I’ve sailed there, from a Coronado 15 dinghy with the 
centerboard up to J/22s and Merit 25s and yes even my C 30 MK I.  Fortunately 
the bottom is mud/sand so no damage is done but it’s embarrassing as hell to 
get stuck there because it’s right across from the marina channel, in view of a 
long dock with about 40 slips on it.  That happens to be my dock and I know my 
dockmates sit out there and watch people getting stuck and unstuck just for 
entertainment.  I wouldn’t be surprised if they started holding up score 
numbers like in diving or gymnastics or ice skating.  One time when I got 
Grenadine stuck there I jumped in the water and tried unsuccessfully to push 
her off as my passengers heeled the boat.  I had to get the park rangers to 
pull me off.

Another grounding story: one time chartering in the Grenadines, while anchored 
at Saltwhistle Bay, Mayreau, we witnessed a 28-foot sailboat run aground on 
some rocks on the south side of the bay, coming in.  The locals rushed over in 
runabouts to heel the boat by her halyards and pull her off - perhaps a common 
occurrence with an easy payday for them.  Turns out the boat’s company was two 
young Swedish couples who had sailed all the way from Sweden - down the North 
Sea, English Channel, Bay of Biscay, Portugal and African coasts to Cape Verde, 
where they turned west and crossed to the Windwards, only to run aground coming 
into Saltwhistle Bay.

Cheers,
Randy
S/V Grenadine
C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO

> On Jul 17, 2018, at 6:29 PM, Dave S via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Sorry to hear about the grounding Gary.  I guess distraction/familiarity can 
> hurt any of us.  
> Thanks for the reminder - for my commute tomorrow - where speeds and risk are 
> much greater.  The boat can be fixed, am very thankful that pride was the 
> only human casualty.
> 
> Dave 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 17, 2018, at 1:17 PM, Gary Russell  > wrote:
> 
>> HI Dave,
>>  Don't beat yourself up too hard.  I am told "There are only two kinds 
>> of sailors... Those who have run aground and those who lie".  Thankfully, 
>> everyone is safe!  That's the important thing.  Good luck with the repairs.
>> 
>> Gary
>> S/V Kaylarah
>> '90 C 37+
>> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>> 
>> ~~~_/)~~
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 11:18 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List 
>> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
>> It is a sad morning here and I need some help to drag me out of my 
>> depression.  This list is my support group, advisers, experts and 
>> therapists.  Or maybe you will kick my butt for being an idiot and that 
>> could help as well.  Aries had a serious grounding on a reef on Saturday and 
>> is currently awaiting insurance to start assessing the situation.  We were 
>> barely towed off the reef by SeaTow and the boat is on the hard at a local 
>> marina.  The damage is worse than I had hoped and better than it could have 
>> been.  When they were able to pull us off the lip of the reef (tide going 
>> out, getting desperate) the rudder hit the reef and bent the shaft, damaged 
>> the hull around the shaft and pushed the rear tip of the rudder up through 
>> the hull.The bottom of the wing keel is also chewed up from grinding on 
>> the reef.  That sound of hull grinding over rock is now forever seared into 
>> my brain.  South Shore yachts actually lists the rudder on their site 
>> (thanks to the list for making me aware of their C parts), and I am hoping 
>> there is nothing else damaged that was not obvious.  No one was hurt, except 
>> my pride and confidence.  Leaving the marina, I now have an appreciation for 
>> the emotions of people who abandon their floating homes at sea.  At least I 
>> will hopefully get mine back.
>> 
>> I have gone over the incident a thousand times trying to understand what 
>> happened and how I could have prevented it.  I thought I was hyperaware of 
>> all the hazards in the Fishers Island Sound area and swore that I would 
>> never ground the boat again after an incident with an unmarked reef during a 
>> race a few years ago.  I try to race with a priority of safety, fun and 
>> speed, in that order.  I almost always have crew who are not sailors other 
>> than racing with me, which I enjoy, but takes some of my focus away from 
>> other things.  We had spent the day in a long race all over Fishers Island 
>> sound.  It was blowing 15+ and we had worked very hard to get around the 
>> course and the last leg was a straight downwind sprint to the finish heading 
>> due North toward the CT coast.  With 3 inexperienced crew I was happy that 
>> we were in second place in our class and focused on getting to the line.  We 
>> crossed the line, then jibed over to head back west to parallel the coast to 
>> our home port of New London 

Re: Stus-List Catharsis message

[Dave S via CnC-List]

Sorry to hear about the grounding Gary.  I guess distraction/familiarity can 
hurt any of us.  
Thanks for the reminder - for my commute tomorrow - where speeds and risk are 
much greater.  The boat can be fixed, am very thankful that pride was the only 
human casualty.

Dave 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 17, 2018, at 1:17 PM, Gary Russell  wrote:
> 
> HI Dave,
>  Don't beat yourself up too hard.  I am told "There are only two kinds of 
> sailors... Those who have run aground and those who lie".  Thankfully, 
> everyone is safe!  That's the important thing.  Good luck with the repairs.
> 
> Gary
> S/V Kaylarah
> '90 C 37+
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
> 
> ~~~_/)~~
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 11:18 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> It is a sad morning here and I need some help to drag me out of my 
>> depression.  This list is my support group, advisers, experts and 
>> therapists.  Or maybe you will kick my butt for being an idiot and that 
>> could help as well.  Aries had a serious grounding on a reef on Saturday and 
>> is currently awaiting insurance to start assessing the situation.  We were 
>> barely towed off the reef by SeaTow and the boat is on the hard at a local 
>> marina.  The damage is worse than I had hoped and better than it could have 
>> been.  When they were able to pull us off the lip of the reef (tide going 
>> out, getting desperate) the rudder hit the reef and bent the shaft, damaged 
>> the hull around the shaft and pushed the rear tip of the rudder up through 
>> the hull.The bottom of the wing keel is also chewed up from grinding on 
>> the reef.  That sound of hull grinding over rock is now forever seared into 
>> my brain.  South Shore yachts actually lists the rudder on their site 
>> (thanks to the list for making me aware of their C parts), and I am hoping 
>> there is nothing else damaged that was not obvious.  No one was hurt, except 
>> my pride and confidence.  Leaving the marina, I now have an appreciation for 
>> the emotions of people who abandon their floating homes at sea.  At least I 
>> will hopefully get mine back.
>> 
>> I have gone over the incident a thousand times trying to understand what 
>> happened and how I could have prevented it.  I thought I was hyperaware of 
>> all the hazards in the Fishers Island Sound area and swore that I would 
>> never ground the boat again after an incident with an unmarked reef during a 
>> race a few years ago.  I try to race with a priority of safety, fun and 
>> speed, in that order.  I almost always have crew who are not sailors other 
>> than racing with me, which I enjoy, but takes some of my focus away from 
>> other things.  We had spent the day in a long race all over Fishers Island 
>> sound.  It was blowing 15+ and we had worked very hard to get around the 
>> course and the last leg was a straight downwind sprint to the finish heading 
>> due North toward the CT coast.  With 3 inexperienced crew I was happy that 
>> we were in second place in our class and focused on getting to the line.  We 
>> crossed the line, then jibed over to head back west to parallel the coast to 
>> our home port of New London and had just taken a deep breath, congratulated 
>> the crew when we hit the reef.  It turns out that the Race Committee had set 
>> the finish line inshore and just East of the single offshore buoy marking 
>> Horseshoe Reef.  I never saw (or recognized) the buoy because it was behind 
>> the mainsail as we approached the finish and I was looking for the finish 
>> line, not other buoys.  By the time we jibed, it was essentially over my 
>> shoulder.  I did not see the buoy until I looked around when we hit the reef 
>> and realized where we were.  A hundred yards inshore and we would have been 
>> fine and a hundred yards offshore and we would have seen the buoy and passed 
>> the correct side of it.  I think the Race Committee deserves some part of 
>> the blame for setting the finish line in a dangerous location but certainly 
>> my lack of awareness of where I was relative to dangers (of which there are 
>> many in Fishers Island Sound) was the major factor.  If I had looked 
>> carefully at the chart at any point, I presume I would have recognized the 
>> danger of the finishing area, but we were closely following the lead boat 
>> and so our location was not an issue until we finished. I was in familiar 
>> waters but I just did not recognize precisely where I was in familiar 
>> waters.  The other boats near us turned East while we turned West so we were 
>> not following anyone after the turn.  
>> 
>> If anyone has any suggestions, comments or strategies to help prevent this, 
>> I am all ears.  A moments inattention is all it took and it makes me 
>> concerned about several factors- age, racing with non-sailor crew, racing in 
>> general.   In our Wednesday night races, we race around the same marks every 
>> week, and it has taken time, but I now think I know every hazard 

Re: Stus-List Catharsis message

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

HI Dave,
 Don't beat yourself up too hard.  I am told "There are only two kinds
of sailors... Those who have run aground and those who lie".  Thankfully,
everyone is safe!  That's the important thing.  Good luck with the repairs.

Gary
S/V Kaylarah
'90 C 37+
East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~


On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 11:18 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> It is a sad morning here and I need some help to drag me out of my
> depression.  This list is my support group, advisers, experts and
> therapists.  Or maybe you will kick my butt for being an idiot and that
> could help as well.  Aries had a serious grounding on a reef on Saturday
> and is currently awaiting insurance to start assessing the situation.  We
> were barely towed off the reef by SeaTow and the boat is on the hard at a
> local marina.  The damage is worse than I had hoped and better than it
> could have been.  When they were able to pull us off the lip of the reef
> (tide going out, getting desperate) the rudder hit the reef and bent the
> shaft, damaged the hull around the shaft and pushed the rear tip of the
> rudder up through the hull.The bottom of the wing keel is also chewed
> up from grinding on the reef.  That sound of hull grinding over rock is now
> forever seared into my brain.  South Shore yachts actually lists the rudder
> on their site (thanks to the list for making me aware of their C parts),
> and I am hoping there is nothing else damaged that was not obvious.  No one
> was hurt, except my pride and confidence.  Leaving the marina, I now have
> an appreciation for the emotions of people who abandon their floating homes
> at sea.  At least I will hopefully get mine back.
>
> I have gone over the incident a thousand times trying to understand what
> happened and how I could have prevented it.  I thought I was hyperaware of
> all the hazards in the Fishers Island Sound area and swore that I would
> never ground the boat again after an incident with an unmarked reef during
> a race a few years ago.  I try to race with a priority of safety, fun and
> speed, in that order.  I almost always have crew who are not sailors other
> than racing with me, which I enjoy, but takes some of my focus away from
> other things.  We had spent the day in a long race all over Fishers Island
> sound.  It was blowing 15+ and we had worked very hard to get around the
> course and the last leg was a straight downwind sprint to the finish
> heading due North toward the CT coast.  With 3 inexperienced crew I was
> happy that we were in second place in our class and focused on getting to
> the line.  We crossed the line, then jibed over to head back west to
> parallel the coast to our home port of New London and had just taken a deep
> breath, congratulated the crew when we hit the reef.  It turns out that the
> Race Committee had set the finish line inshore and just East of the single
> offshore buoy marking Horseshoe Reef.  I never saw (or recognized) the buoy
> because it was behind the mainsail as we approached the finish and I was
> looking for the finish line, not other buoys.  By the time we jibed, it was
> essentially over my shoulder.  I did not see the buoy until I looked around
> when we hit the reef and realized where we were.  A hundred yards inshore
> and we would have been fine and a hundred yards offshore and we would have
> seen the buoy and passed the correct side of it.  I think the Race
> Committee deserves some part of the blame for setting the finish line in a
> dangerous location but certainly my lack of awareness of where I was
> relative to dangers (of which there are many in Fishers Island Sound) was
> the major factor.  If I had looked carefully at the chart at any point, I
> presume I would have recognized the danger of the finishing area, but we
> were closely following the lead boat and so our location was not an issue
> until we finished. I was in familiar waters but I just did not recognize
> precisely where I was in familiar waters.  The other boats near us turned
> East while we turned West so we were not following anyone after the turn.
>
> If anyone has any suggestions, comments or strategies to help prevent
> this, I am all ears.  A moments inattention is all it took and it makes me
> concerned about several factors- age, racing with non-sailor crew, racing
> in general.   In our Wednesday night races, we race around the same marks
> every week, and it has taken time, but I now think I know every hazard and
> am aware of where we are relative to them while also keeping on top of the
> boat and crew.  This was an area I have sailed in many times but rarely
> race there.  Also in terms of the incident itself, if Seatow had not
> happened to be in the area and seen us and we were not able to get the boat
> off the reef until the next high tide, I have no idea what we would have
> done.  I know I have learned from other people’s disasters (always the
> first thing I read when 

Re: Stus-List Catharsis message

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

Hi Dave,

So sorry to hear of your misadventure...

However, look at it this way, it's always something, this year this is 
your something!


I've been dealing with a paint job that went wrong for 3 seasons now.  
Then when going to launch we found a leak at the cover plate for the 
center board.  Then we take off for a week and during a sail around 
P-town looking for whales, I hear this loud clanging noise.  The upper 
spreader bar broke and the spreader was slamming the mast like a 
baseball bat.  ok, sails in and back to the marina.  we get to the 
marina, I back the boat into the dock where they wanted me like a pro!  
Awesome!  The yard guy says, "hey lets turn the boat around and I'll go 
up right now on the man lift."  I say "sure!"  I turn the boat around 
pull into the dock my wife throws that guy the bow line and by the time 
I go to throw the aft line to another dock guy, the guy on the bow is 
pulling so hard on that line the aft floats away toward the other dock.  
My tries to throw the aft line to other guy, he misses, then line is 
left in the water, I put the stupid thing in reverse and guess where the 
line ends up?  Brilliant!  We went from  heros to zeros in minutes!  So, 
we Pull the part, have a new one made put it all back together, then I'm 
having these charging issues we been discussing  It's almost always 
something...


Anyway, good luck getting it all sorted out.  hopefully it's just the 
new rudder and some fiberglass work to get back onto the water.  the 
good thing is that the boat yards are actually slowing down at the 
moment so maybe you can be back sailing soon!


All the best

Danny


On 7/17/2018 7:16 AM, John and Maryann Read via CnC-List wrote:


Hi David

So sorry to hear of your misadventure.  Best part is no one was 
injured and hopefully insurance will fix the boat.  Have been there 
and done that and can only say skipper lack of focus or imprudence 
were the cause.  Am intimately familiar with Horseshoe Reef and know 
many a vessel that has discovered its exact location.  Sounds like the 
RC established the finish line in its normal location so nothing new 
there.


Best of luck moving forward

John and Maryann

Legacy III

1982 C 34

Noank, CT

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*David Knecht via CnC-List

*Sent:* Monday, July 16, 2018 11:18 AM
*To:* CnC CnC discussion list
*Cc:* David Knecht
*Subject:* Stus-List Catharsis message

It is a sad morning here and I need some help to drag me out of my 
depression.  This list is my support group, advisers, experts and 
therapists.  Or maybe you will kick my butt for being an idiot and 
that could help as well.  Aries had a serious grounding on a reef on 
Saturday and is currently awaiting insurance to start assessing the 
situation.  We were barely towed off the reef by SeaTow and the boat 
is on the hard at a local marina.  The damage is worse than I had 
hoped and better than it could have been.  When they were able to pull 
us off the lip of the reef (tide going out, getting desperate) the 
rudder hit the reef and bent the shaft, damaged the hull around the 
shaft and pushed the rear tip of the rudder up through the hull.   
 The bottom of the wing keel is also chewed up from grinding on the 
reef.  That sound of hull grinding over rock is now forever seared 
into my brain.  South Shore yachts actually lists the rudder on their 
site (thanks to the list for making me aware of their C parts), and 
I am hoping there is nothing else damaged that was not obvious.  No 
one was hurt, except my pride and confidence.  Leaving the marina, I 
now have an appreciation for the emotions of people who abandon their 
floating homes at sea.  At least I will hopefully get mine back.


I have gone over the incident a thousand times trying to understand 
what happened and how I could have prevented it.  I thought I was 
hyperaware of all the hazards in the Fishers Island Sound area and 
swore that I would never ground the boat again after an incident with 
an unmarked reef during a race a few years ago.  I try to race with a 
priority of safety, fun and speed, in that order.  I almost always 
have crew who are not sailors other than racing with me, which I 
enjoy, but takes some of my focus away from other things.  We had 
spent the day in a long race all over Fishers Island sound.  It was 
blowing 15+ and we had worked very hard to get around the course and 
the last leg was a straight downwind sprint to the finish heading due 
North toward the CT coast.  With 3 inexperienced crew I was happy that 
we were in second place in our class and focused on getting to the 
line.  We crossed the line, then jibed over to head back west to 
parallel the coast to our home port of New London and had just taken a 
deep breath, congratulated the crew when we hit the reef.  It turns 
out that the Race Committee had set the finish line inshore and just 
East of the single offshore bu

Re: Stus-List Catharsis message

[John and Maryann Read via CnC-List]

Hi David

 

So sorry to hear of your misadventure.  Best part is no one was injured and 
hopefully insurance will fix the boat.  Have been there and done that and can 
only say skipper lack of focus or imprudence were the cause.  Am intimately 
familiar with Horseshoe Reef and know many a vessel that has discovered its 
exact location.  Sounds like the RC established the finish line in its normal 
location so nothing new there.

 

Best of luck moving forward

 

John and Maryann

Legacy III

1982 C 34

Noank, CT

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David Knecht 
via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 11:18 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list
Cc: David Knecht
Subject: Stus-List Catharsis message

 

It is a sad morning here and I need some help to drag me out of my depression.  
This list is my support group, advisers, experts and therapists.  Or maybe you 
will kick my butt for being an idiot and that could help as well.  Aries had a 
serious grounding on a reef on Saturday and is currently awaiting insurance to 
start assessing the situation.  We were barely towed off the reef by SeaTow and 
the boat is on the hard at a local marina.  The damage is worse than I had 
hoped and better than it could have been.  When they were able to pull us off 
the lip of the reef (tide going out, getting desperate) the rudder hit the reef 
and bent the shaft, damaged the hull around the shaft and pushed the rear tip 
of the rudder up through the hull.The bottom of the wing keel is also 
chewed up from grinding on the reef.  That sound of hull grinding over rock is 
now forever seared into my brain.  South Shore yachts actually lists the rudder 
on their site (thanks to the list for making me aware of their C parts), and 
I am hoping there is nothing else damaged that was not obvious.  No one was 
hurt, except my pride and confidence.  Leaving the marina, I now have an 
appreciation for the emotions of people who abandon their floating homes at 
sea.  At least I will hopefully get mine back.

 

I have gone over the incident a thousand times trying to understand what 
happened and how I could have prevented it.  I thought I was hyperaware of all 
the hazards in the Fishers Island Sound area and swore that I would never 
ground the boat again after an incident with an unmarked reef during a race a 
few years ago.  I try to race with a priority of safety, fun and speed, in that 
order.  I almost always have crew who are not sailors other than racing with 
me, which I enjoy, but takes some of my focus away from other things.  We had 
spent the day in a long race all over Fishers Island sound.  It was blowing 15+ 
and we had worked very hard to get around the course and the last leg was a 
straight downwind sprint to the finish heading due North toward the CT coast.  
With 3 inexperienced crew I was happy that we were in second place in our class 
and focused on getting to the line.  We crossed the line, then jibed over to 
head back west to parallel the coast to our home port of New London and had 
just taken a deep breath, congratulated the crew when we hit the reef.  It 
turns out that the Race Committee had set the finish line inshore and just East 
of the single offshore buoy marking Horseshoe Reef.  I never saw (or 
recognized) the buoy because it was behind the mainsail as we approached the 
finish and I was looking for the finish line, not other buoys.  By the time we 
jibed, it was essentially over my shoulder.  I did not see the buoy until I 
looked around when we hit the reef and realized where we were.  A hundred yards 
inshore and we would have been fine and a hundred yards offshore and we would 
have seen the buoy and passed the correct side of it.  I think the Race 
Committee deserves some part of the blame for setting the finish line in a 
dangerous location but certainly my lack of awareness of where I was relative 
to dangers (of which there are many in Fishers Island Sound) was the major 
factor.  If I had looked carefully at the chart at any point, I presume I would 
have recognized the danger of the finishing area, but we were closely following 
the lead boat and so our location was not an issue until we finished. I was in 
familiar waters but I just did not recognize precisely where I was in familiar 
waters.  The other boats near us turned East while we turned West so we were 
not following anyone after the turn.  

 

If anyone has any suggestions, comments or strategies to help prevent this, I 
am all ears.  A moments inattention is all it took and it makes me concerned 
about several factors- age, racing with non-sailor crew, racing in general.   
In our Wednesday night races, we race around the same marks every week, and it 
has taken time, but I now think I know every hazard and am aware of where we 
are relative to them while also keeping on top of the boat and crew.  This was 
an area I have sailed in many times but rarely race there.  Also in terms

Re: Stus-List Catharsis message

[svrebeccaleah via CnC-List]

I to feel you pain. I won't say have run aground, but I did not the Ballard 
railroad bridge when it was down just before I sold Pegasus my LF38. Not only 
do you have to watch but I guess the sky too. ;) After the pain and suffering 
and the boat is fixed, you have a great story for the next rendezvous. Doug


Doug Mountjoy Rebecca Leah LF39 Port Orchard YC, WA.


 Original message From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
 Date: 7/16/18  08:18  (GMT-08:00) To: CnC CnC 
discussion list  Cc: David Knecht 
 Subject: Stus-List Catharsis message 
It is a sad morning here and I need some help to drag me out of my depression.  
This list is my support group, advisers, experts and therapists.  Or maybe you 
will kick my butt for being an idiot and that could help as well.  Aries had a 
serious grounding on a reef on Saturday and is currently awaiting insurance to 
start assessing the situation.  We were barely towed off the reef by SeaTow and 
the boat is on the hard at a local marina.  The damage is worse than I had 
hoped and better than it could have been.  When they were able to pull us off 
the lip of the reef (tide going out, getting desperate) the rudder hit the reef 
and bent the shaft, damaged the hull around the shaft and pushed the rear tip 
of the rudder up through the hull.    The bottom of the wing keel is also 
chewed up from grinding on the reef.  That sound of hull grinding over rock is 
now forever seared into my brain.  South Shore yachts actually lists the rudder 
on their site (thanks to the list for making me aware of their C parts), and 
I am hoping there is nothing else damaged that was not obvious.  No one was 
hurt, except my pride and confidence.  Leaving the marina, I now have an 
appreciation for the emotions of people who abandon their floating homes at 
sea.  At least I will hopefully get mine back.
I have gone over the incident a thousand times trying to understand what 
happened and how I could have prevented it.  I thought I was hyperaware of all 
the hazards in the Fishers Island Sound area and swore that I would never 
ground the boat again after an incident with an unmarked reef during a race a 
few years ago.  I try to race with a priority of safety, fun and speed, in that 
order.  I almost always have crew who are not sailors other than racing with 
me, which I enjoy, but takes some of my focus away from other things.  We had 
spent the day in a long race all over Fishers Island sound.  It was blowing 15+ 
and we had worked very hard to get around the course and the last leg was a 
straight downwind sprint to the finish heading due North toward the CT coast.  
With 3 inexperienced crew I was happy that we were in second place in our class 
and focused on getting to the line.  We crossed the line, then jibed over to 
head back west to parallel the coast to our home port of New London and had 
just taken a deep breath, congratulated the crew when we hit the reef.  It 
turns out that the Race Committee had set the finish line inshore and just East 
of the single offshore buoy marking Horseshoe Reef.  I never saw (or 
recognized) the buoy because it was behind the mainsail as we approached the 
finish and I was looking for the finish line, not other buoys.  By the time we 
jibed, it was essentially over my shoulder.  I did not see the buoy until I 
looked around when we hit the reef and realized where we were.  A hundred yards 
inshore and we would have been fine and a hundred yards offshore and we would 
have seen the buoy and passed the correct side of it.  I think the Race 
Committee deserves some part of the blame for setting the finish line in a 
dangerous location but certainly my lack of awareness of where I was relative 
to dangers (of which there are many in Fishers Island Sound) was the major 
factor.  If I had looked carefully at the chart at any point, I presume I would 
have recognized the danger of the finishing area, but we were closely following 
the lead boat and so our location was not an issue until we finished. I was in 
familiar waters but I just did not recognize precisely where I was in familiar 
waters.  The other boats near us turned East while we turned West so we were 
not following anyone after the turn.  
If anyone has any suggestions, comments or strategies to help prevent this, I 
am all ears.  A moments inattention is all it took and it makes me concerned 
about several factors- age, racing with non-sailor crew, racing in general.   
In our Wednesday night races, we race around the same marks every week, and it 
has taken time, but I now think I know every hazard and am aware of where we 
are relative to them while also keeping on top of the boat and crew.  This was 
an area I have sailed in many times but rarely race there.  Also in terms of 
the incident itself, if Seatow had not happened to be in the area and seen us 
and we were not able to get the boat off the reef until the next high tide, I 
have no idea what we would have done.  I

Re: Stus-List Catharsis message

[Fred Hazzard via CnC-List]

I feel your pain. Been there done that. $30,000 later and the boat was like
new again.   I love insurance.

Fred Hazzard
S/V Fury
C 44
Portland Or

On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 10:55 AM Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> David
>
> I'll echo the others.  We have all grounded or will.  On my 35MK1 I hit
> the rocks outside of Pervost Harbor in the San Juan Islands.  Fortunately
> aside from some ribs on me and bending the wheel, the boat handled it way
> better than we did. I was fortunate to able to back out without incident.
>
> I have no idea what the tidal range is where you are.  But on reading your
> account and with the usual 20/20 hindsight in full play here, I have to
> wonder if just waiting out the tide cycle may have been a better option.
>
> Hope it all turns out for you and Aries!
>
> Tom B
>
> At 09:49 AM 7/16/2018, you wrote:
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2018 12:38:23 -0400
> From: Josh Muckley 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>
>
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Catharsis message
>
> Message-ID:
>  <
> ca+zacrbui68zss1k9kj7ums-jnp3srxxu2f7u49oetxy3+8...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Ugh!  Sorry for your misfortune.  I believe there are sailors who have run
>
>
> aground and those that will.  The severity is the only differentiation.  In
> the Chesapeake, fortunately we have very little rock or reefs.  In Solomons
> we have a number of shole areas in which we sail around regularly.  Even
> when aware of the hazards I have occasionally found myself being slipped
> below the line created by the navaids.  I ha e to remember not to focus
> exclusively on the one i  front of me but the one behind as well.
>
> Whether driving on the road or the water my dad always said look ahead and
> make sure to have and exit strategy - a place to bail out.  Your experience
> is a sobbing reminder.  Is it safe to assume that you have a chartplotter
> at the helm?  I believe some chartplotters have the ability to alert you to
> hazards (minimum depth, collision avoidance, danger zones, etc.)  Maybe
> look into these features in the future.
>
>
> All then best,
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 16, 2018, 11:19 AM David Knecht via CnC-List <
>
>
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> > It is a sad morning here and I need some help to drag me out of my
> > depression.  This list is my support group, advisers, experts and
> > therapists.  Or maybe you will kick my butt for being an idiot and that
> > could help as well.  Aries had a serious grounding on a reef on Saturday
> > and is currently awaiting insurance to start assessing the situation.  We
> > were barely towed off the reef by SeaTow and the boat is on the hard at a
> > local marina.  The damage is worse than I had hoped and better than it
> > could have been.  When they were able to pull us off the lip of the reef
> > (tide going out, getting desperate) the rudder hit the reef and bent the
> > shaft, damaged the hull around the shaft and pushed the rear tip of the
> > rudder up through the hull.The bottom of the wing keel is also chewed
> > up from grinding on the reef.  That sound of hull grinding over rock is
> now
> > forever seared into my brain.  South Shore yachts actually lists the
> rudder
> > on their site (thanks to the list for making me aware of their C
> parts),
> > and I am hoping there is nothing else damaged that was not obvious.  No
> one
> > was hurt, except my pride and confidence.  Leaving the marina, I now have
> > an appreciation for the emotions of people who abandon their floating
> homes
> > at sea.  At least I will hopefully get mine back.
> >
> > I have gone over the incident a thousand times trying to understand what
> > happened and how I could have prevented it.  I thought I was hyperaware
> of
> > all the hazards in the Fishers Island Sound area and swore that I would
> > never ground the boat again after an incident with an unmarked reef
> during
> > a race a few years ago.  I try to race with a priority of safety, fun and
> > speed, in that order.  I almost always have crew who are not sailors
> other
> > than racing with me, which I enjoy, but takes some of my focus away from
> > other things.  We had spent the day in a long race all over Fishers
> Island
> > sound.  It was blowing 15+ and we had worked very hard to get around the
> > course and the last leg was a straight downwind sprint to the finish
> > heading due North toward the CT coast.  With 3 inexperienced crew I was
> > happy that we were 

Stus-List Catharsis message

[Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List]

David

I'll echo the others.  We have all grounded or 
will.  On my 35MK1 I hit the rocks outside of 
Pervost Harbor in the San Juan 
Islands.  Fortunately aside from some ribs on me 
and bending the wheel, the boat handled it way 
better than we did. I was fortunate to able to back out without incident.


I have no idea what the tidal range is where you 
are.  But on reading your account and with the 
usual 20/20 hindsight in full play here, I have 
to wonder if just waiting out the tide cycle may have been a better option.


Hope it all turns out for you and Aries!

Tom B

At 09:49 AM 7/16/2018, you wrote:

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2018 12:38:23 -0400
From: Josh Muckley 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Catharsis message
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Ugh!  Sorry for your misfortune.  I believe there are sailors who have run
aground and those that will.  The severity is the only differentiation.  In
the Chesapeake, fortunately we have very little rock or reefs.  In Solomons
we have a number of shole areas in which we sail around regularly.  Even
when aware of the hazards I have occasionally found myself being slipped
below the line created by the navaids.  I ha e to remember not to focus
exclusively on the one i  front of me but the one behind as well.

Whether driving on the road or the water my dad always said look ahead and
make sure to have and exit strategy - a place to bail out.  Your experience
is a sobbing reminder.  Is it safe to assume that you have a chartplotter
at the helm?  I believe some chartplotters have the ability to alert you to
hazards (minimum depth, collision avoidance, danger zones, etc.)  Maybe
look into these features in the future.


All then best,

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Mon, Jul 16, 2018, 11:19 AM David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> It is a sad morning here and I need some help to drag me out of my
> depression.  This list is my support group, advisers, experts and
> therapists.  Or maybe you will kick my butt for being an idiot and that
> could help as well.  Aries had a serious grounding on a reef on Saturday
> and is currently awaiting insurance to start assessing the situation.  We
> were barely towed off the reef by SeaTow and the boat is on the hard at a
> local marina.  The damage is worse than I had hoped and better than it
> could have been.  When they were able to pull us off the lip of the reef
> (tide going out, getting desperate) the rudder hit the reef and bent the
> shaft, damaged the hull around the shaft and pushed the rear tip of the
> rudder up through the hull.The bottom of the wing keel is also chewed
> up from grinding on the reef.  That sound of hull grinding over rock is now
> forever seared into my brain.  South Shore yachts actually lists the rudder
> on their site (thanks to the list for making me aware of their C parts),
> and I am hoping there is nothing else damaged that was not obvious.  No one
> was hurt, except my pride and confidence.  Leaving the marina, I now have
> an appreciation for the emotions of people who abandon their floating homes
> at sea.  At least I will hopefully get mine back.
>
> I have gone over the incident a thousand times trying to understand what
> happened and how I could have prevented it.  I thought I was hyperaware of
> all the hazards in the Fishers Island Sound area and swore that I would
> never ground the boat again after an incident with an unmarked reef during
> a race a few years ago.  I try to race with a priority of safety, fun and
> speed, in that order.  I almost always have crew who are not sailors other
> than racing with me, which I enjoy, but takes some of my focus away from
> other things.  We had spent the day in a long race all over Fishers Island
> sound.  It was blowing 15+ and we had worked very hard to get around the
> course and the last leg was a straight downwind sprint to the finish
> heading due North toward the CT coast.  With 3 inexperienced crew I was
> happy that we were in second place in our class and focused on getting to
> the line.  We crossed the line, then jibed over to head back west to
> parallel the coast to our home port of New London and had just taken a deep
> breath, congratulated the crew when we hit the reef.  It turns out that the
> Race Committee had set the finish line inshore and just East of the single
> offshore buoy marking Horseshoe Reef.  I never saw (or recognized) the buoy
> because it was behind the mainsail as we approached the finish and I was
> looking for the finish line, not other buoys.  By the time we jibed, it was
> essentially over my shoulder.  I did not see the buoy until I looked around
> when we hit the reef and realized where we were.  A hundred yards inshore
> and we would have been fine an

Re: Stus-List Catharsis message

[David via CnC-List]

David,

We had two interesting experiences yesterday. We were moored in a Vineyard 
Haven, in the morning at low tide we felt this bang not once not twice I jumped 
up went to the cockpit and realized the boat was going up and down with waves 
and hitting the bottom not hard but hard of a scare the crap out of us.  So we 
ran aground without even moving. Later that same day we were going to our newly 
located Mooring which has plenty of deep water around it but apparently a 
neighboring mooring has six and a half feet of mud which we proceeded to trench 
our way through.

What a day for Keels and groundings. I hope all works well with your insurance 
adjuster and repairs

Get Outlook for Android


From: CnC-List  on behalf of Chuck S via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 1:40:11 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Chuck S
Subject: Re: Stus-List Catharsis message

Hi David,
Sorry about the grounding.
Boats can be fixed. Be thankful you and crew are OK.

I have had many groundings that were no big deal and one horrible grounding 
that cost me $16K, so I know your pain very well. I hope your insurance comes 
through for you. Keep us posted on developments.

On July 16, 2018 at 11:18 AM David Knecht via CnC-List  
wrote:

It is a sad morning here and I need some help to drag me out of my depression.  
This list is my support group, advisers, experts and therapists.  Or maybe you 
will kick my butt for being an idiot and that could help as well.  Aries had a 
serious grounding on a reef on Saturday and is currently awaiting insurance to 
start assessing the situation.  We were barely towed off the reef by SeaTow and 
the boat is on the hard at a local marina.  The damage is worse than I had 
hoped and better than it could have been.  When they were able to pull us off 
the lip of the reef (tide going out, getting desperate) the rudder hit the reef 
and bent the shaft, damaged the hull around the shaft and pushed the rear tip 
of the rudder up through the hull.The bottom of the wing keel is also 
chewed up from grinding on the reef.  That sound of hull grinding over rock is 
now forever seared into my brain.  South Shore yachts actually lists the rudder 
on their site (thanks to the list for making me aware of their C parts), and 
I am hoping there is nothing else damaged that was not obvious.  No one was 
hurt, except my pride and confidence.  Leaving the marina, I now have an 
appreciation for the emotions of people who abandon their floating homes at 
sea.  At least I will hopefully get mine back.

I have gone over the incident a thousand times trying to understand what 
happened and how I could have prevented it.  I thought I was hyperaware of all 
the hazards in the Fishers Island Sound area and swore that I would never 
ground the boat again after an incident with an unmarked reef during a race a 
few years ago.  I try to race with a priority of safety, fun and speed, in that 
order.  I almost always have crew who are not sailors other than racing with 
me, which I enjoy, but takes some of my focus away from other things.  We had 
spent the day in a long race all over Fishers Island sound.  It was blowing 15+ 
and we had worked very hard to get around the course and the last leg was a 
straight downwind sprint to the finish heading due North toward the CT coast.  
With 3 inexperienced crew I was happy that we were in second place in our class 
and focused on getting to the line.  We crossed the line, then jibed over to 
head back west to parallel the coast to our home port of New London and had 
just taken a deep breath, congratulated the crew when we hit the reef.  It 
turns out that the Race Committee had set the finish line inshore and just East 
of the single offshore buoy marking Horseshoe Reef.  I never saw (or 
recognized) the buoy because it was behind the mainsail as we approached the 
finish and I was looking for the finish line, not other buoys.  By the time we 
jibed, it was essentially over my shoulder.  I did not see the buoy until I 
looked around when we hit the reef and realized where we were.  A hundred yards 
inshore and we would have been fine and a hundred yards offshore and we would 
have seen the buoy and passed the correct side of it.  I think the Race 
Committee deserves some part of the blame for setting the finish line in a 
dangerous location but certainly my lack of awareness of where I was relative 
to dangers (of which there are many in Fishers Island Sound) was the major 
factor.  If I had looked carefully at the chart at any point, I presume I would 
have recognized the danger of the finishing area, but we were closely following 
the lead boat and so our location was not an issue until we finished. I was in 
familiar waters but I just did not recognize precisely where I was in familiar 
waters.  The other boats near us turned East while we turned West so we were 
not following anyone after the turn.

If anyone has any suggestions

Re: Stus-List Catharsis message

[Chuck S via CnC-List]

Hi David,
Sorry about the grounding.
Boats can be fixed. Be thankful you and crew are OK.

I have had many groundings that were no big deal and one horrible grounding 
that cost me $16K, so I know your pain very well. I hope your insurance comes 
through for you. Keep us posted on developments.


> On July 16, 2018 at 11:18 AM David Knecht via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> It is a sad morning here and I need some help to drag me out of my 
> depression.  This list is my support group, advisers, experts and therapists. 
>  Or maybe you will kick my butt for being an idiot and that could help as 
> well.  Aries had a serious grounding on a reef on Saturday and is currently 
> awaiting insurance to start assessing the situation.  We were barely towed 
> off the reef by SeaTow and the boat is on the hard at a local marina.  The 
> damage is worse than I had hoped and better than it could have been.  When 
> they were able to pull us off the lip of the reef (tide going out, getting 
> desperate) the rudder hit the reef and bent the shaft, damaged the hull 
> around the shaft and pushed the rear tip of the rudder up through the hull.   
>  The bottom of the wing keel is also chewed up from grinding on the reef.  
> That sound of hull grinding over rock is now forever seared into my brain.  
> South Shore yachts actually lists the rudder on their site (thanks to the 
> list for making me aware of their C parts), and I am hoping there is 
> nothing else damaged that was not obvious.  No one was hurt, except my pride 
> and confidence.  Leaving the marina, I now have an appreciation for the 
> emotions of people who abandon their floating homes at sea.  At least I will 
> hopefully get mine back.
> 
> I have gone over the incident a thousand times trying to understand what 
> happened and how I could have prevented it.  I thought I was hyperaware of 
> all the hazards in the Fishers Island Sound area and swore that I would never 
> ground the boat again after an incident with an unmarked reef during a race a 
> few years ago.  I try to race with a priority of safety, fun and speed, in 
> that order.  I almost always have crew who are not sailors other than racing 
> with me, which I enjoy, but takes some of my focus away from other things.  
> We had spent the day in a long race all over Fishers Island sound.  It was 
> blowing 15+ and we had worked very hard to get around the course and the last 
> leg was a straight downwind sprint to the finish heading due North toward the 
> CT coast.  With 3 inexperienced crew I was happy that we were in second place 
> in our class and focused on getting to the line.  We crossed the line, then 
> jibed over to head back west to parallel the coast to our home port of New 
> London and had just taken a deep breath, congratulated the crew when we hit 
> the reef.  It turns out that the Race Committee had set the finish line 
> inshore and just East of the single offshore buoy marking Horseshoe Reef.  I 
> never saw (or recognized) the buoy because it was behind the mainsail as we 
> approached the finish and I was looking for the finish line, not other buoys. 
>  By the time we jibed, it was essentially over my shoulder.  I did not see 
> the buoy until I looked around when we hit the reef and realized where we 
> were.  A hundred yards inshore and we would have been fine and a hundred 
> yards offshore and we would have seen the buoy and passed the correct side of 
> it.  I think the Race Committee deserves some part of the blame for setting 
> the finish line in a dangerous location but certainly my lack of awareness of 
> where I was relative to dangers (of which there are many in Fishers Island 
> Sound) was the major factor.  If I had looked carefully at the chart at any 
> point, I presume I would have recognized the danger of the finishing area, 
> but we were closely following the lead boat and so our location was not an 
> issue until we finished. I was in familiar waters but I just did not 
> recognize precisely where I was in familiar waters.  The other boats near us 
> turned East while we turned West so we were not following anyone after the 
> turn.  
> 
> If anyone has any suggestions, comments or strategies to help prevent 
> this, I am all ears.  A moments inattention is all it took and it makes me 
> concerned about several factors- age, racing with non-sailor crew, racing in 
> general.   In our Wednesday night races, we race around the same marks every 
> week, and it has taken time, but I now think I know every hazard and am aware 
> of where we are relative to them while also keeping on top of the boat and 
> crew.  This was an area I have sailed in many times but rarely race there.  
> Also in terms of the incident itself, if Seatow had not happened to be in the 
> area and seen us and we were not able to get the boat off the reef until the 
> next high tide, I have no idea what we would have done.  I know I have 
> learned from other people’s 

Re: Stus-List Catharsis message

[James Bibb via CnC-List]

Very sad story to read.  I ran aground last year in a very familiar harbor race 
as I was concentrating on rounding the mark which drifted too close to shore.  
I was very lucky as I ran up an over a sand-bar and was able to get off quickly 
on a lee-shore with the time running out quickly.  

I know it will happen again as I almost ran up on a reef last summer on a race 
condition…watched the reef for hours and mis-judged the current and was able to 
fire up the engines at the last moment.  If the engine did not fire up, I would 
have been hard-aground.  I made a skipper error in both situations simply by 
not being prudent.  Learned a lot and swear I will not make the same mistake 
but I know I will at some point or at least there will be the risk. 

Again, very sad news.  I wish you all the best. 

James Bibb

C 34/36R Darwin’s Folly
Juneau, AK. 


> On Jul 16, 2018, at 8:48 AM, schiller via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> I definitely understand and feel your pain.  Hopefully all will go well with 
> the insurance and repairs.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> Neil Schiller
> 1983 C 35-3, #028
> "Grace"
> Whitehall, Michigan
> WLYC
> 
> On 7/16/2018 11:18 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List wrote:
>> It is a sad morning here and I need some help to drag me out of my 
>> depression.  This list is my support group, advisers, experts and 
>> therapists.  Or maybe you will kick my butt for being an idiot and that 
>> could help as well.  Aries had a serious grounding on a reef on Saturday and 
>> is currently awaiting insurance to start assessing the situation.  We were 
>> barely towed off the reef by SeaTow and the boat is on the hard at a local 
>> marina.  The damage is worse than I had hoped and better than it could have 
>> been.  When they were able to pull us off the lip of the reef (tide going 
>> out, getting desperate) the rudder hit the reef and bent the shaft, damaged 
>> the hull around the shaft and pushed the rear tip of the rudder up through 
>> the hull.The bottom of the wing keel is also chewed up from grinding on 
>> the reef.  That sound of hull grinding over rock is now forever seared into 
>> my brain.  South Shore yachts actually lists the rudder on their site 
>> (thanks to the list for making me aware of their C parts), and I am hoping 
>> there is nothing else damaged that was not obvious.  No one was hurt, except 
>> my pride and confidence.  Leaving the marina, I now have an appreciation for 
>> the emotions of people who abandon their floating homes at sea.  At least I 
>> will hopefully get mine back.
>> 
>> I have gone over the incident a thousand times trying to understand what 
>> happened and how I could have prevented it.  I thought I was hyperaware of 
>> all the hazards in the Fishers Island Sound area and swore that I would 
>> never ground the boat again after an incident with an unmarked reef during a 
>> race a few years ago.  I try to race with a priority of safety, fun and 
>> speed, in that order.  I almost always have crew who are not sailors other 
>> than racing with me, which I enjoy, but takes some of my focus away from 
>> other things.  We had spent the day in a long race all over Fishers Island 
>> sound.  It was blowing 15+ and we had worked very hard to get around the 
>> course and the last leg was a straight downwind sprint to the finish heading 
>> due North toward the CT coast.  With 3 inexperienced crew I was happy that 
>> we were in second place in our class and focused on getting to the line.  We 
>> crossed the line, then jibed over to head back west to parallel the coast to 
>> our home port of New London and had just taken a deep breath, congratulated 
>> the crew when we hit the reef.  It turns out that the Race Committee had set 
>> the finish line inshore and just East of the single offshore buoy marking 
>> Horseshoe Reef.  I never saw (or recognized) the buoy because it was behind 
>> the mainsail as we approached the finish and I was looking for the finish 
>> line, not other buoys.  By the time we jibed, it was essentially over my 
>> shoulder.  I did not see the buoy until I looked around when we hit the reef 
>> and realized where we were.  A hundred yards inshore and we would have been 
>> fine and a hundred yards offshore and we would have seen the buoy and passed 
>> the correct side of it.  I think the Race Committee deserves some part of 
>> the blame for setting the finish line in a dangerous location but certainly 
>> my lack of awareness of where I was relative to dangers (of which there are 
>> many in Fishers Island Sound) was the major factor.  If I had looked 
>> carefully at the chart at any point, I presume I would have recognized the 
>> danger of the finishing area, but we were closely following the lead boat 
>> and so our location was not an issue until we finished. I was in familiar 
>> waters but I just did not recognize precisely where I was in familiar 
>> waters.  The other boats near us turned East while we turned West so we were 

Re: Stus-List Catharsis message

[schiller via CnC-List]

I definitely understand and feel your pain. Hopefully all will go well 
with the insurance and repairs.


Good luck.

Neil Schiller
1983 C 35-3, #028
"Grace"
Whitehall, Michigan
WLYC

On 7/16/2018 11:18 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List wrote:
It is a sad morning here and I need some help to drag me out of my 
depression.  This list is my support group, advisers, experts and 
therapists.  Or maybe you will kick my butt for being an idiot and 
that could help as well.  Aries had a serious grounding on a reef on 
Saturday and is currently awaiting insurance to start assessing the 
situation.  We were barely towed off the reef by SeaTow and the boat 
is on the hard at a local marina.  The damage is worse than I had 
hoped and better than it could have been.  When they were able to pull 
us off the lip of the reef (tide going out, getting desperate) the 
rudder hit the reef and bent the shaft, damaged the hull around the 
shaft and pushed the rear tip of the rudder up through the hull.   
 The bottom of the wing keel is also chewed up from grinding on the 
reef.  That sound of hull grinding over rock is now forever seared 
into my brain.  South Shore yachts actually lists the rudder on their 
site (thanks to the list for making me aware of their C parts), and 
I am hoping there is nothing else damaged that was not obvious.  No 
one was hurt, except my pride and confidence.  Leaving the marina, I 
now have an appreciation for the emotions of people who abandon their 
floating homes at sea.  At least I will hopefully get mine back.


I have gone over the incident a thousand times trying to understand 
what happened and how I could have prevented it.  I thought I was 
hyperaware of all the hazards in the Fishers Island Sound area and 
swore that I would never ground the boat again after an incident with 
an unmarked reef during a race a few years ago.  I try to race with a 
priority of safety, fun and speed, in that order.  I almost always 
have crew who are not sailors other than racing with me, which I 
enjoy, but takes some of my focus away from other things.  We had 
spent the day in a long race all over Fishers Island sound.  It was 
blowing 15+ and we had worked very hard to get around the course and 
the last leg was a straight downwind sprint to the finish heading due 
North toward the CT coast.  With 3 inexperienced crew I was happy that 
we were in second place in our class and focused on getting to the 
line.  We crossed the line, then jibed over to head back west to 
parallel the coast to our home port of New London and had just taken a 
deep breath, congratulated the crew when we hit the reef.  It turns 
out that the Race Committee had set the finish line inshore and just 
East of the single offshore buoy marking Horseshoe Reef.  I never saw 
(or recognized) the buoy because it was behind the mainsail as we 
approached the finish and I was looking for the finish line, not other 
buoys.  By the time we jibed, it was essentially over my shoulder.  I 
did not see the buoy until I looked around when we hit the reef and 
realized where we were.  A hundred yards inshore and we would have 
been fine and a hundred yards offshore and we would have seen the buoy 
and passed the correct side of it.  I think the Race Committee 
deserves some part of the blame for setting the finish line in a 
dangerous location but certainly my lack of awareness of where I was 
relative to dangers (of which there are many in Fishers Island Sound) 
was the major factor.  If I had looked carefully at the chart at any 
point, I presume I would have recognized the danger of the finishing 
area, but we were closely following the lead boat and so our location 
was not an issue until we finished. I was in familiar waters but I 
just did not recognize precisely where I was in familiar waters.  The 
other boats near us turned East while we turned West so we were not 
following anyone after the turn.


If anyone has any suggestions, comments or strategies to help prevent 
this, I am all ears.  A moments inattention is all it took and it 
makes me concerned about several factors- age, racing with non-sailor 
crew, racing in general.   In our Wednesday night races, we race 
around the same marks every week, and it has taken time, but I now 
think I know every hazard and am aware of where we are relative to 
them while also keeping on top of the boat and crew.  This was an area 
I have sailed in many times but rarely race there.  Also in terms of 
the incident itself, if Seatow had not happened to be in the area and 
seen us and we were not able to get the boat off the reef until the 
next high tide, I have no idea what we would have done.  I know I have 
learned from other people’s disasters (always the first thing I read 
when a new Sail magazine is delivered), so maybe this will help 
someone else not have this happen or make someone feel better about 
things that have happened to them.


Relevant to the issue of thinking you know where you 

Re: Stus-List Catharsis message

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Ugh!  Sorry for your misfortune.  I believe there are sailors who have run
aground and those that will.  The severity is the only differentiation.  In
the Chesapeake, fortunately we have very little rock or reefs.  In Solomons
we have a number of shole areas in which we sail around regularly.  Even
when aware of the hazards I have occasionally found myself being slipped
below the line created by the navaids.  I ha e to remember not to focus
exclusively on the one i  front of me but the one behind as well.

Whether driving on the road or the water my dad always said look ahead and
make sure to have and exit strategy - a place to bail out.  Your experience
is a sobbing reminder.  Is it safe to assume that you have a chartplotter
at the helm?  I believe some chartplotters have the ability to alert you to
hazards (minimum depth, collision avoidance, danger zones, etc.)  Maybe
look into these features in the future.


All then best,

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Mon, Jul 16, 2018, 11:19 AM David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> It is a sad morning here and I need some help to drag me out of my
> depression.  This list is my support group, advisers, experts and
> therapists.  Or maybe you will kick my butt for being an idiot and that
> could help as well.  Aries had a serious grounding on a reef on Saturday
> and is currently awaiting insurance to start assessing the situation.  We
> were barely towed off the reef by SeaTow and the boat is on the hard at a
> local marina.  The damage is worse than I had hoped and better than it
> could have been.  When they were able to pull us off the lip of the reef
> (tide going out, getting desperate) the rudder hit the reef and bent the
> shaft, damaged the hull around the shaft and pushed the rear tip of the
> rudder up through the hull.The bottom of the wing keel is also chewed
> up from grinding on the reef.  That sound of hull grinding over rock is now
> forever seared into my brain.  South Shore yachts actually lists the rudder
> on their site (thanks to the list for making me aware of their C parts),
> and I am hoping there is nothing else damaged that was not obvious.  No one
> was hurt, except my pride and confidence.  Leaving the marina, I now have
> an appreciation for the emotions of people who abandon their floating homes
> at sea.  At least I will hopefully get mine back.
>
> I have gone over the incident a thousand times trying to understand what
> happened and how I could have prevented it.  I thought I was hyperaware of
> all the hazards in the Fishers Island Sound area and swore that I would
> never ground the boat again after an incident with an unmarked reef during
> a race a few years ago.  I try to race with a priority of safety, fun and
> speed, in that order.  I almost always have crew who are not sailors other
> than racing with me, which I enjoy, but takes some of my focus away from
> other things.  We had spent the day in a long race all over Fishers Island
> sound.  It was blowing 15+ and we had worked very hard to get around the
> course and the last leg was a straight downwind sprint to the finish
> heading due North toward the CT coast.  With 3 inexperienced crew I was
> happy that we were in second place in our class and focused on getting to
> the line.  We crossed the line, then jibed over to head back west to
> parallel the coast to our home port of New London and had just taken a deep
> breath, congratulated the crew when we hit the reef.  It turns out that the
> Race Committee had set the finish line inshore and just East of the single
> offshore buoy marking Horseshoe Reef.  I never saw (or recognized) the buoy
> because it was behind the mainsail as we approached the finish and I was
> looking for the finish line, not other buoys.  By the time we jibed, it was
> essentially over my shoulder.  I did not see the buoy until I looked around
> when we hit the reef and realized where we were.  A hundred yards inshore
> and we would have been fine and a hundred yards offshore and we would have
> seen the buoy and passed the correct side of it.  I think the Race
> Committee deserves some part of the blame for setting the finish line in a
> dangerous location but certainly my lack of awareness of where I was
> relative to dangers (of which there are many in Fishers Island Sound) was
> the major factor.  If I had looked carefully at the chart at any point, I
> presume I would have recognized the danger of the finishing area, but we
> were closely following the lead boat and so our location was not an issue
> until we finished. I was in familiar waters but I just did not recognize
> precisely where I was in familiar waters.  The other boats near us turned
> East while we turned West so we were not following anyone after the turn.
>
> If anyone has any suggestions, comments or strategies to help prevent
> this, I am all ears.  A moments inattention is all it took and it makes me
> concerned 

Stus-List Catharsis message

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

It is a sad morning here and I need some help to drag me out of my depression.  
This list is my support group, advisers, experts and therapists.  Or maybe you 
will kick my butt for being an idiot and that could help as well.  Aries had a 
serious grounding on a reef on Saturday and is currently awaiting insurance to 
start assessing the situation.  We were barely towed off the reef by SeaTow and 
the boat is on the hard at a local marina.  The damage is worse than I had 
hoped and better than it could have been.  When they were able to pull us off 
the lip of the reef (tide going out, getting desperate) the rudder hit the reef 
and bent the shaft, damaged the hull around the shaft and pushed the rear tip 
of the rudder up through the hull.The bottom of the wing keel is also 
chewed up from grinding on the reef.  That sound of hull grinding over rock is 
now forever seared into my brain.  South Shore yachts actually lists the rudder 
on their site (thanks to the list for making me aware of their C parts), and 
I am hoping there is nothing else damaged that was not obvious.  No one was 
hurt, except my pride and confidence.  Leaving the marina, I now have an 
appreciation for the emotions of people who abandon their floating homes at 
sea.  At least I will hopefully get mine back.

I have gone over the incident a thousand times trying to understand what 
happened and how I could have prevented it.  I thought I was hyperaware of all 
the hazards in the Fishers Island Sound area and swore that I would never 
ground the boat again after an incident with an unmarked reef during a race a 
few years ago.  I try to race with a priority of safety, fun and speed, in that 
order.  I almost always have crew who are not sailors other than racing with 
me, which I enjoy, but takes some of my focus away from other things.  We had 
spent the day in a long race all over Fishers Island sound.  It was blowing 15+ 
and we had worked very hard to get around the course and the last leg was a 
straight downwind sprint to the finish heading due North toward the CT coast.  
With 3 inexperienced crew I was happy that we were in second place in our class 
and focused on getting to the line.  We crossed the line, then jibed over to 
head back west to parallel the coast to our home port of New London and had 
just taken a deep breath, congratulated the crew when we hit the reef.  It 
turns out that the Race Committee had set the finish line inshore and just East 
of the single offshore buoy marking Horseshoe Reef.  I never saw (or 
recognized) the buoy because it was behind the mainsail as we approached the 
finish and I was looking for the finish line, not other buoys.  By the time we 
jibed, it was essentially over my shoulder.  I did not see the buoy until I 
looked around when we hit the reef and realized where we were.  A hundred yards 
inshore and we would have been fine and a hundred yards offshore and we would 
have seen the buoy and passed the correct side of it.  I think the Race 
Committee deserves some part of the blame for setting the finish line in a 
dangerous location but certainly my lack of awareness of where I was relative 
to dangers (of which there are many in Fishers Island Sound) was the major 
factor.  If I had looked carefully at the chart at any point, I presume I would 
have recognized the danger of the finishing area, but we were closely following 
the lead boat and so our location was not an issue until we finished. I was in 
familiar waters but I just did not recognize precisely where I was in familiar 
waters.  The other boats near us turned East while we turned West so we were 
not following anyone after the turn.  

If anyone has any suggestions, comments or strategies to help prevent this, I 
am all ears.  A moments inattention is all it took and it makes me concerned 
about several factors- age, racing with non-sailor crew, racing in general.   
In our Wednesday night races, we race around the same marks every week, and it 
has taken time, but I now think I know every hazard and am aware of where we 
are relative to them while also keeping on top of the boat and crew.  This was 
an area I have sailed in many times but rarely race there.  Also in terms of 
the incident itself, if Seatow had not happened to be in the area and seen us 
and we were not able to get the boat off the reef until the next high tide, I 
have no idea what we would have done.  I know I have learned from other 
people’s disasters (always the first thing I read when a new Sail magazine is 
delivered), so maybe this will help someone else not have this happen or make 
someone feel better about things that have happened to them.  

Relevant to the issue of thinking you know where you are when you don’t, if you 
have not read Laurence Gonzales’s book Deep Survival, I highly recommend it.  
He talks a lot about the psychology of visual perception of your local 
environment and how it affects decisions.  I think there are lessons