Re: Stus-List Dyneema lifelines -- was Re: Swageless lifeline system
Thanks for all the feedback. Checked and my stanchions have smooth thru-holes. Right now my CS 30 has twin lifelines on either side. Each line has a pelican hook for a gate (so both sides double hooks). The wire may be ok, but at 28yrs old there is too much slack even with the pelican hooks threads fully tightened. I'll see if I can find the fittings to add a loop to the end of the pelican hook and replace the wire. Mark There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval. - George Santayana On 12/07/2014 10:17 AM, Chuck S via CnC-List wrote: Amsteel Lifelines: I like how the amsteel is hard as steel when taught and when you unclip the gate pelican hook, the line is soft. No fish hooks and easy to replace. Easy to remove and store each winter if you want to protect from UVs and increase the life. I used Samson's simple taper and bury method of splicing. I found grey thread for the lockstitch, but ended up using black whipping twine, so I can prove it is done and find it in future. There are 4" round shackle guards on the top life line in front of the forward stanchions to help the genoa roll over the lifeline and I don't see any wear there. The stuff is very tuff. Sailing; We keep the lifelines taught and if the genoa is caught on the lifeline after a tack, we tension the sheet, and then tap the lifeline in the cockpit and the foot of the sail rolls over, inside the line. Now the weaklink in our system is the stanchion bases which offer some play. The deck has some flex and the hole in the bases have ovalled enough I'm contemplating filling the void with an epoxy or hard UV resistant caulk? Chuck Resolute 1990 C&C 34R Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md From: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list" To: "M Bod" , "CNC boat owners, cnc-list" Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2014 7:35:21 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Dyneema lifelines -- was Re: Swageless lifeline system Recently replaced my old lifelines with Amsteel and really like them. CS Johnson has a new style of fitting that is very nice, http://www.csjohnson.com/marinecatalog/p/00014.jpg . Did all the splices myself following the Samson recommendations and am very pleased with the result. James S/V Delaney 1976 C&C 38 Oriental, NC - Original Message - From: "M Bod via CnC-List" To: "C&C list" Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 7:59 PM Subject: Stus-List Dyneema lifelines -- was Re: Swageless lifeline system > Anyone try dynemma for lifelines? > I found at least one source for lifeline hardware with eye ends for high > tech line. > > http://www.downwindmarine.com/Johnson-Over-Center-Pelican-Gate-Hook-with-Eye-p-91000377.html > > Seems like it would be easy to install and replace as needed. > But would there be other issues? > Chafe on sails? > Chafe at stantions? > Hard to adjust length? > > My lifelines will need a replacement in the next year or 2. At minimum. > Not sure where I would get new swaged lifelines locally. > > Thoughts? > > Mark > ___ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > > Email address: > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of > page at: > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com > ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Dyneema lifelines -- was Re: Swageless lifeline system
If I were to replace my lifelines today I'd go with Dyneema. I have one piece of 1/8" Amsteel that I use to lash down the shank of my anchor. It's been tied to the pulpit base for six years now, and is the most heavily abused piece of rope on the boat. It sits in the Mexican sun 24x7, and the rusty anchor chain often runs over it when raising/lowering the hook. When securing the anchor I wrap it around the pulpit and shank, and pull it hard to get it good and tight, so the rope is pulled over the rust and barnacles on the anchor. I thought about replacing it this year because it's getting ugly, but didn't because I think it's in good shape. I've never really evaluated the cost. If bare SS lifelines last 15 years or more, how much would it cost to replace the Dyneema five times. (Personally, I think every three years is excessive, but it depends on how you use your boat.) Locked Brummel splices are easy and fun. I just replaced the wire harness for my radar reflector with itsy-bitsy-teeny-weeney Dyneema, because the four of the six wires were broken from wiggling around in the breeze, and learned to do 12 of those eyes. No problems. I'll bet the Dyneema lasts longer than the wire did. I'd make sure your stanchions have welded and polished holes for the lifelines, and not just drilled holes with sharp edges. Wal ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Dyneema lifelines -- was Re: Swageless lifeline system
Amsteel Lifelines: I like how the amsteel is hard as steel when taught and when you unclip the gate pelican hook, the line is soft. No fish hooks and easy to replace. Easy to remove and store each winter if you want to protect from UVs and increase the life. I used Samson's simple taper and bury method of splicing. I found grey thread for the lockstitch, but ended up using black whipping twine, so I can prove it is done and find it in future. There are 4" round shackle guards on the top life line in front of the forward stanchions to help the genoa roll over the lifeline and I don't see any wear there. The stuff is very tuff. Sailing; We keep the lifelines taught and if the genoa is caught on the lifeline after a tack, we tension the sheet, and then tap the lifeline in the cockpit and the foot of the sail rolls over, inside the line. Now the weaklink in our system is the stanchion bases which offer some play. The deck has some flex and the hole in the bases have ovalled enough I'm contemplating filling the void with an epoxy or hard UV resistant caulk? Chuck Resolute 1990 C&C 34R Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md - Original Message - From: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list" To: "M Bod" , "CNC boat owners, cnc-list" Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2014 7:35:21 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Dyneema lifelines -- was Re: Swageless lifeline system Recently replaced my old lifelines with Amsteel and really like them. CS Johnson has a new style of fitting that is very nice, http://www.csjohnson.com/marinecatalog/p/00014.jpg . Did all the splices myself following the Samson recommendations and am very pleased with the result. James S/V Delaney 1976 C&C 38 Oriental, NC - Original Message - From: "M Bod via CnC-List" To: "C&C list" Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 7:59 PM Subject: Stus-List Dyneema lifelines -- was Re: Swageless lifeline system > Anyone try dynemma for lifelines? > I found at least one source for lifeline hardware with eye ends for high > tech line. > > http://www.downwindmarine.com/Johnson-Over-Center-Pelican-Gate-Hook-with-Eye-p-91000377.html > > > Seems like it would be easy to install and replace as needed. > But would there be other issues? > Chafe on sails? > Chafe at stantions? > Hard to adjust length? > > My lifelines will need a replacement in the next year or 2. At minimum. > Not sure where I would get new swaged lifelines locally. > > Thoughts? > > Mark > ___ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > > Email address: > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of > page at: > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com > ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Dyneema lifelines -- was Re: Swageless lifeline system
Recently replaced my old lifelines with Amsteel and really like them. CS Johnson has a new style of fitting that is very nice, http://www.csjohnson.com/marinecatalog/p/00014.jpg . Did all the splices myself following the Samson recommendations and am very pleased with the result. James S/V Delaney 1976 C&C 38 Oriental, NC - Original Message - From: "M Bod via CnC-List" To: "C&C list" Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 7:59 PM Subject: Stus-List Dyneema lifelines -- was Re: Swageless lifeline system Anyone try dynemma for lifelines? I found at least one source for lifeline hardware with eye ends for high tech line. http://www.downwindmarine.com/Johnson-Over-Center-Pelican-Gate-Hook-with-Eye-p-91000377.html Seems like it would be easy to install and replace as needed. But would there be other issues? Chafe on sails? Chafe at stantions? Hard to adjust length? My lifelines will need a replacement in the next year or 2. At minimum. Not sure where I would get new swaged lifelines locally. Thoughts? Mark ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Dyneema lifelines -- was Re: Swageless lifeline system
I put shroud covers over the lines where the jib crosses the lifeline to protect the sails. Joel On Friday, July 11, 2014, Chuck S via CnC-List wrote: > I did the Amsteel 1/4" lines. At first I used a fid I made from a large > hollow darning needle, but later learned to use a simpler coat hanger to > pull the end through. I followed Samson's method to taper the end and > measured the bury to about 22" I think. They give you fid lengths that > equate to that length for 1/4" line. I made luggage tag eyes in either end > of line. > > > http://www.samsonrope.com/Documents/Splice%20Instructions/12Strand_C2_Eye%20Splice_JUL2012_WEB.pdf > > I reused my turnbuckles and replaced the swaged ends w eyes from Johnson. > I wound up w turnbuckles at one end of each line and the Gate Pelican hooks > too. But if I ever redo them, I'll emilinate turnbuckles and rely on > the pelican hooks for final tension. > > To pull the line through the stanchion eye, use a small 1/8" inch braided > line about a foot long. Put a loop of small line through the eye of > amsteel, then insert the two ends of small line through the stanchion hole > and pull it through to the other side, pulling the Amsteel eye after. This > method is so easy, you can remove the lifelines in winter to double the > life. The coiled lines can be labelled and fit easily into a plastic > shopping bag and stored inside the boat. > > Lastly, get your tension right before stitching locking stitches into each > eye, so they don't slip when slackened. > > > -- > *From: *"CNC boat owners, cnc-list" > > *To: *"M Bod" >, "CNC boat > owners, cnc-list" > > *Sent: *Friday, July 11, 2014 8:38:35 PM > *Subject: *Re: Stus-List Dyneema lifelines -- was Re: Swageless lifeline > system > > Yes. Used those hooks too. You need to tension the line before you measure > and leave room for more stretch. > > Joel > > On Friday, July 11, 2014, M Bod via CnC-List > wrote: > >> Anyone try dynemma for lifelines? >> I found at least one source for lifeline hardware with eye ends for high >> tech line. >> >> >> http://www.downwindmarine.com/Johnson-Over-Center-Pelican-Gate-Hook-with-Eye-p-91000377.html >> >> Seems like it would be easy to install and replace as needed. >> But would there be other issues? >> Chafe on sails? >> Chafe at stantions? >> Hard to adjust length? >> >> My lifelines will need a replacement in the next year or 2. At minimum. >> Not sure where I would get new swaged lifelines locally. >> >> Thoughts? >> >> Mark >> ___ >> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >> >> Email address: >> CnC-List@cnc-list.com >> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of >> page at: >> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com >> >> > > -- > Joel > 301 541 8551 > > ___ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > > Email address: > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of > page at: > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com > > > -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Dyneema lifelines -- was Re: Swageless lifeline system
I did the Amsteel 1/4" lines. At first I used a fid I made from a large hollow darning needle, but later learned to use a simpler coat hanger to pull the end through. I followed Samson's method to taper the end and measured the bury to about 22" I think. They give you fid lengths that equate to that length for 1/4" line. I made luggage tag eyes in either end of line. http://www.samsonrope.com/Documents/Splice%20Instructions/12Strand_C2_Eye%20Splice_JUL2012_WEB.pdf I reused my turnbuckles and replaced the swaged ends w eyes from Johnson. I wound up w turnbuckles at one end of each line and the Gate Pelican hooks too. But if I ever redo them, I'll emilinate turnbuckles and rely on the pelican hooks for final tension. To pull the line through the stanchion eye, use a small 1/8" inch braided line about a foot long. Put a loop of small line through the eye of amsteel, then insert the two ends of small line through the stanchion hole and pull it through to the other side, pulling the Amsteel eye after. This method is so easy, you can remove the lifelines in winter to double the life. The coiled lines can be labelled and fit easily into a plastic shopping bag and stored inside the boat. Lastly, get your tension right before stitching locking stitches into each eye, so they don't slip when slackened. - Original Message - From: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list" To: "M Bod" , "CNC boat owners, cnc-list" Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 8:38:35 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Dyneema lifelines -- was Re: Swageless lifeline system Yes. Used those hooks too. You need to tension the line before you measure and leave room for more stretch. Joel On Friday, July 11, 2014, M Bod via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: Anyone try dynemma for lifelines? I found at least one source for lifeline hardware with eye ends for high tech line. http://www.downwindmarine.com/Johnson-Over-Center-Pelican-Gate-Hook-with-Eye-p-91000377.html Seems like it would be easy to install and replace as needed. But would there be other issues? Chafe on sails? Chafe at stantions? Hard to adjust length? My lifelines will need a replacement in the next year or 2. At minimum. Not sure where I would get new swaged lifelines locally. Thoughts? Mark ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Dyneema lifelines -- was Re: Swageless lifeline system
Yes. Used those hooks too. You need to tension the line before you measure and leave room for more stretch. Joel On Friday, July 11, 2014, M Bod via CnC-List wrote: > Anyone try dynemma for lifelines? > I found at least one source for lifeline hardware with eye ends for high > tech line. > > > http://www.downwindmarine.com/Johnson-Over-Center-Pelican-Gate-Hook-with-Eye-p-91000377.html > > Seems like it would be easy to install and replace as needed. > But would there be other issues? > Chafe on sails? > Chafe at stantions? > Hard to adjust length? > > My lifelines will need a replacement in the next year or 2. At minimum. > Not sure where I would get new swaged lifelines locally. > > Thoughts? > > Mark > ___ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > > Email address: > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of > page at: > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com > > -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Dyneema lifelines -- was Re: Swageless lifeline system
I had similar questions but after talking with a rigging specialist, I'm pretty well sold on the dyneema. You will have to get good at making a locked brummel splice. This alone could be enough for some people to look to a professional. Make sure you have enough extra length to practice with. If you decide to stay with traditiinal rigging, Suncor does great swageless fittings that they call "quick-attach". They are easy, quick, and reusable. Just use the uncoated wire rope. They have a complete kit for ~$150 but it comes with coated wire. Most of the marine industy recognizes that the coating traps moisture and eliminates oxygen exposure causing the SS to not be so stainless. The coating also prevents inspection. Without coating "fish hooks" are more likely. That and the weight make dyneema my choice. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C&C 37+ Solomons, MD On Jul 11, 2014 7:59 PM, "M Bod via CnC-List" wrote: > Anyone try dynemma for lifelines? > I found at least one source for lifeline hardware with eye ends for high > tech line. > > > http://www.downwindmarine.com/Johnson-Over-Center-Pelican-Gate-Hook-with-Eye-p-91000377.html > > Seems like it would be easy to install and replace as needed. > But would there be other issues? > Chafe on sails? > Chafe at stantions? > Hard to adjust length? > > My lifelines will need a replacement in the next year or 2. At minimum. > Not sure where I would get new swaged lifelines locally. > > Thoughts? > > Mark > ___ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > > Email address: > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of > page at: > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com > > ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Dyneema lifelines -- was Re: Swageless lifeline system
Mark, My understanding with Dyneema is that you will need to replace it often. If you race seriously, the lower weight could be worth the added expense and upkeep. Otherwise, wire would be the way to go. There's a company I've used in the past to replace the lifelines on the Enterprise-A called Rigging Only. When I replace the ones on the "B" in a year or two, I'll use them again. They provide you with all the instructions you need to measure and then they will make everything for you. Great value. All the best, Edd --- Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise NCC-1701-B C&C 37+ | City Island, NY www.StarshipSailing.com --- 914.332.4400 | Office 914.332.1671 | Fax 914.774.9767 | Mobile --- Sent via iPhone 5 On Jul 11, 2014, at 7:59 PM, M Bod via CnC-List wrote: Anyone try dynemma for lifelines? I found at least one source for lifeline hardware with eye ends for high tech line. http://www.downwindmarine.com/Johnson-Over-Center-Pelican-Gate-Hook-with-Eye-p-91000377.html Seems like it would be easy to install and replace as needed. But would there be other issues? Chafe on sails? Chafe at stantions? Hard to adjust length? My lifelines will need a replacement in the next year or 2. At minimum. Not sure where I would get new swaged lifelines locally. Thoughts? Mark ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List Dyneema lifelines -- was Re: Swageless lifeline system
Anyone try dynemma for lifelines? I found at least one source for lifeline hardware with eye ends for high tech line. http://www.downwindmarine.com/Johnson-Over-Center-Pelican-Gate-Hook-with-Eye-p-91000377.html Seems like it would be easy to install and replace as needed. But would there be other issues? Chafe on sails? Chafe at stantions? Hard to adjust length? My lifelines will need a replacement in the next year or 2. At minimum. Not sure where I would get new swaged lifelines locally. Thoughts? Mark ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
