Re: Stus-List Engine starting issue

2020-08-02 Thread Daniel via CnC-List
Sometimes. Lucky you this time. Usually not though I think. :) 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 2, 2020, at 17:05, Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
>  My starter button was giving me problems.  It turned out the the button 
> switch was loose.  The rubber cap concealed that fact.  I tighten the ring on 
> the Loose switch and it was fine.  
> 
> Sometime things are easier to fix than we expect...
> 
> Tom Buscaglia
> S/V Alera 
> 1990 C&C 37+/40
> Vashon WA
> P 206.463.9200
> C 305.409.3660
> 
> 
>>> On Aug 2, 2020, at 9:00 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
>>> 
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 16:38:36 -0300
>> From: dwight veinot 
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Engine starting issue
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Next easiest try. Replace the starter button switch
>> 
>> On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 10:50 AM David Knecht via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
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> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
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Stus-List Engine starting issue

2020-08-02 Thread Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List
My starter button was giving me problems.  It turned out the the button switch 
was loose.  The rubber cap concealed that fact.  I tighten the ring on the 
Loose switch and it was fine.  

Sometime things are easier to fix than we expect...

Tom Buscaglia
S/V Alera 
1990 C&C 37+/40
Vashon WA
P 206.463.9200
C 305.409.3660


> On Aug 2, 2020, at 9:00 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 16:38:36 -0300
> From: dwight veinot 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Engine starting issue
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Next easiest try. Replace the starter button switch
> 
> On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 10:50 AM David Knecht via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
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Re: Stus-List Engine starting issue

2020-08-01 Thread dwight veinot via CnC-List
Next easiest try. Replace the starter button switch

On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 10:50 AM David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> To be clear:
> 1.  No wiring harness- removed several years ago and replaced with direct
> butt splices.
> 2.  The engine has started 100% of the time when cold and glow plug button
> pushed before start button
> 3.  The two times it gave no response were warm engine with key off, turn
> key on and immediately push start button.  In both cases, second push of
> start button a few seconds later started right up.
>
> That is why I was thinking that it was the delay between turning the key
> on and pushing the start button was the only obvious difference between the
> scenarios where it started vs. gave no response.  I did not hear a click
> when I pushed the button, but I suspect that between my being in the
> cockpit (rather than near the starter), my hearing not being great and the
> clicking of the fuel pump, I would likely would not be able to tell if it
> clicked or not.  I will do some more experimentation when I am next at the
> boat.  I will warm the engine and then turn the key off and wait various
> times before pushing Start and see what happens.  Dave
>
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> --
Sent from Gmail Mobile
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Re: Stus-List Engine starting issue

2020-08-01 Thread Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List
 I have the three lung Universal and I have to have the key on to start; 
whether I use the glow plug button or not. In my case, the key gets the power 
to the electric fuel pump. No fuel pump, no fuel to engine.
Ron
Wild Cheri
C&C 30-1
STL

 On Saturday, August 1, 2020, 08:50:41 AM CDT, David Knecht via CnC-List 
 wrote:  
 
 To be clear:1.  No wiring harness- removed several years ago and replaced with 
direct butt splices.2.  The engine has started 100% of the time when cold and 
glow plug button pushed before start button3.  The two times it gave no 
response were warm engine with key off, turn key on and immediately push start 
button.  In both cases, second push of start button a few seconds later started 
right up.  
That is why I was thinking that it was the delay between turning the key on and 
pushing the start button was the only obvious difference between the scenarios 
where it started vs. gave no response.  I did not hear a click when I pushed 
the button, but I suspect that between my being in the cockpit (rather than 
near the starter), my hearing not being great and the clicking of the fuel 
pump, I would likely would not be able to tell if it clicked or not.  I will do 
some more experimentation when I am next at the boat.  I will warm the engine 
and then turn the key off and wait various times before pushing Start and see 
what happens.  Dave
S/V Aries1990 C&C 34+New London, CT
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Re: Stus-List Engine starting issue

2020-08-01 Thread David Knecht via CnC-List
To be clear:
1.  No wiring harness- removed several years ago and replaced with direct butt 
splices.
2.  The engine has started 100% of the time when cold and glow plug button 
pushed before start button
3.  The two times it gave no response were warm engine with key off, turn key 
on and immediately push start button.  In both cases, second push of start 
button a few seconds later started right up.  

That is why I was thinking that it was the delay between turning the key on and 
pushing the start button was the only obvious difference between the scenarios 
where it started vs. gave no response.  I did not hear a click when I pushed 
the button, but I suspect that between my being in the cockpit (rather than 
near the starter), my hearing not being great and the clicking of the fuel 
pump, I would likely would not be able to tell if it clicked or not.  I will do 
some more experimentation when I am next at the boat.  I will warm the engine 
and then turn the key off and wait various times before pushing Start and see 
what happens.  Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT

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Re: Stus-List Engine starting issue

2020-08-01 Thread dwight veinot via CnC-List
I have a Universal M4-30 in Alianna. There is a well documented problem
with the wiring harness involving where the ammeter, the length and gage of
wires used and the trailer connectors used. I had similar problem and
traced to the spade connector to the solenoid for the starter motor. That’s
the first connection to check. If it’s loose no start and engine vibration
can loosen it

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 11:44 AM David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Twice in the last week, I have noticed an issue that might be a prelude to
> a greater problem. Normally, I start the engine by turning on the key,
> hitting the glow plug button for 30 seconds and then hitting the start
> button.   Never been a problem there.  Both times that this has happened,
> the engine was already warm and I just turned the key on, hit the start
> button and got no response.  Tried again a few seconds later and it started
> up fine both times.  Is it possible that something needs a few seconds to
> power up after turning the key on (solenoid?)?  I don’t remember this being
> an issue in the past, but it is not often I start the engine by just
> turning the key and pushing start.  My start battery is a 10 year old AGM
> and has had no trouble cranking the engine in general, even after warming
> the glow plugs for 45 seconds. Thanks- Dave
>
> David Knecht
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> --
Sent from Gmail Mobile
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Re: Stus-List Engine starting issue

2020-07-31 Thread Rick Brass via CnC-List
On my Universal M35B (which is a later version Kubota engine, but similar to 
yours) the preheat button powers up both the glow plugs and the electric fuel 
lift pump, which supplies fuel to the high pressure injection pump.

 

When you press the start without preheat, does it crank without starting? Or 
not crank at all? 

 

1st alternative might indicate a failing lift pump and insufficient fuel supply 
to the injection pump. Second is probably corrosion in the starter wiring 
somewhere. 

 

Can you here the start solenoid click in if alternative 2? If so, that would 
make me suspect the power cable to the starter or the engine ground rather than 
the wiring from the engine panel.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David Knecht 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 12:44 PM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Cc: David Knecht 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Engine starting issue

 

This is a Universal M4-30.  When I bought the boat, I had starting issues and 
cleaned all the grounds and have since replaced the wiring harnesses.  It has 
been 8 years, but the reason I was skeptical of a ground issue is that the 
engine has started every time on the first try when first warming the glow 
plugs.  And it has started on the second try both times when not using the glow 
plugs.  Does it make sense that a bad ground would work that way?  Dave

 

S/V Aries

1990 C&C 34+

New London, CT








On Jul 31, 2020, at 11:35 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

 

Yanmar?  Don't forget to service the wiring harness connection near the engine, 
coat contacts with TefGel and then plug and unplug it several times.  
Generously wrap electrical tape around it when finished.

  -- 

Dennis C.

Touche' 35-1 #83

Mandeville, LA

 

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:44 AM David Knecht via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Twice in the last week, I have noticed an issue that might be a prelude to a 
greater problem. Normally, I start the engine by turning on the key, hitting 
the glow plug button for 30 seconds and then hitting the start button.   Never 
been a problem there.  Both times that this has happened, the engine was 
already warm and I just turned the key on, hit the start button and got no 
response.  Tried again a few seconds later and it started up fine both times.  
Is it possible that something needs a few seconds to power up after turning the 
key on (solenoid?)?  I don’t remember this being an issue in the past, but it 
is not often I start the engine by just turning the key and pushing start.  My 
start battery is a 10 year old AGM and has had no trouble cranking the engine 
in general, even after warming the glow plugs for 45 seconds. Thanks- Dave

 

David Knecht

S/V Aries

1990 C&C 34+

 




 

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Re: Stus-List Engine starting issue

2020-07-31 Thread Gary Nylander via CnC-List
Amen. After some engine work, I was able to start it a number times, then 
nothing. I spent many hours chasing the wires. Everything connected, yes. 12 v 
where needed, yes. Finally realized that even though I had connectivity, there 
was just not enough current. Ran a separate wire from the terminal on the 
starter (direct cable from battery) to the ignition switch. Aha! Running again. 
40 year old wire and connections….

 

Gary

30-1

St. Michaels MD

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Dennis C. via 
CnC-List
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 11:36 AM
To: CnClist 
Cc: Dennis C. 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Engine starting issue

 

Yanmar?  Don't forget to service the wiring harness connection near the engine, 
coat contacts with TefGel and then plug and unplug it several times.  
Generously wrap electrical tape around it when finished.

  -- 

Dennis C.

Touche' 35-1 #83

Mandeville, LA

 

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:44 AM David Knecht via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Twice in the last week, I have noticed an issue that might be a prelude to a 
greater problem. Normally, I start the engine by turning on the key, hitting 
the glow plug button for 30 seconds and then hitting the start button.   Never 
been a problem there.  Both times that this has happened, the engine was 
already warm and I just turned the key on, hit the start button and got no 
response.  Tried again a few seconds later and it started up fine both times.  
Is it possible that something needs a few seconds to power up after turning the 
key on (solenoid?)?  I don’t remember this being an issue in the past, but it 
is not often I start the engine by just turning the key and pushing start.  My 
start battery is a 10 year old AGM and has had no trouble cranking the engine 
in general, even after warming the glow plugs for 45 seconds. Thanks- Dave

 

David Knecht

S/V Aries

1990 C&C 34+

 




 

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Re: Stus-List Engine starting issue

2020-07-31 Thread Dennis C. via CnC-List
A key and two buttons?  One for glow plugs and silence the low pressure
alarm and one for starting?  If so, start with jumping the start button.
Turn the key on, press the pre-heat button and jump across the contacts on
the back of the push button switch.  If it turns over strongly, your start
button is dirty.

Sometimes a start switch will get "carboned up" which can result in poor
contact.

  --
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 11:44 AM David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> This is a Universal M4-30.  When I bought the boat, I had starting issues
> and cleaned all the grounds and have since replaced the wiring harnesses.
> It has been 8 years, but the reason I was skeptical of a ground issue is
> that the engine has started every time on the first try when first warming
> the glow plugs.  And it has started on the second try both times when not
> using the glow plugs.  Does it make sense that a bad ground would work that
> way?  Dave
>
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Engine starting issue

2020-07-31 Thread David Knecht via CnC-List
This is a Universal M4-30.  When I bought the boat, I had starting issues and 
cleaned all the grounds and have since replaced the wiring harnesses.  It has 
been 8 years, but the reason I was skeptical of a ground issue is that the 
engine has started every time on the first try when first warming the glow 
plugs.  And it has started on the second try both times when not using the glow 
plugs.  Does it make sense that a bad ground would work that way?  Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT



> On Jul 31, 2020, at 11:35 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Yanmar?  Don't forget to service the wiring harness connection near the 
> engine, coat contacts with TefGel and then plug and unplug it several times.  
> Generously wrap electrical tape around it when finished.
>   -- 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> 
> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:44 AM David Knecht via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> Twice in the last week, I have noticed an issue that might be a prelude to a 
> greater problem. Normally, I start the engine by turning on the key, hitting 
> the glow plug button for 30 seconds and then hitting the start button.   
> Never been a problem there.  Both times that this has happened, the engine 
> was already warm and I just turned the key on, hit the start button and got 
> no response.  Tried again a few seconds later and it started up fine both 
> times.  Is it possible that something needs a few seconds to power up after 
> turning the key on (solenoid?)?  I don’t remember this being an issue in the 
> past, but it is not often I start the engine by just turning the key and 
> pushing start.  My start battery is a 10 year old AGM and has had no trouble 
> cranking the engine in general, even after warming the glow plugs for 45 
> seconds. Thanks- Dave
> 
> David Knecht
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 

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Re: Stus-List Engine starting issue

2020-07-31 Thread Dennis C. via CnC-List
Yanmar?  Don't forget to service the wiring harness connection near the
engine, coat contacts with TefGel and then plug and unplug it several
times.  Generously wrap electrical tape around it when finished.
  --
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:44 AM David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Twice in the last week, I have noticed an issue that might be a prelude to
> a greater problem. Normally, I start the engine by turning on the key,
> hitting the glow plug button for 30 seconds and then hitting the start
> button.   Never been a problem there.  Both times that this has happened,
> the engine was already warm and I just turned the key on, hit the start
> button and got no response.  Tried again a few seconds later and it started
> up fine both times.  Is it possible that something needs a few seconds to
> power up after turning the key on (solenoid?)?  I don’t remember this being
> an issue in the past, but it is not often I start the engine by just
> turning the key and pushing start.  My start battery is a 10 year old AGM
> and has had no trouble cranking the engine in general, even after warming
> the glow plugs for 45 seconds. Thanks- Dave
>
> David Knecht
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Engine starting issue

2020-07-31 Thread Sam Salter via CnC-List
It’s more than likely, either a bad ground connection on the engine (possibly 
on one of the bell housing bolts on the back of the engine) or, after 30 or 40 
years the untinned main battery/starter/solenoid wires have corroded up inside 
the insulation near the connectors. Happened to me a few years ago. Took me a 
couple of years (off and on) to diagnose. Eventually replaced the thick main 
cables with stock cables from Canadian Tire - connectors and battery terminals 
already fitted!

sam
C&C 26  Liquorice 
Ghost Lake Alberta 


On Jul 31, 2020, at 8:44 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List  
wrote:


Twice in the last week, I have noticed an issue that might be a prelude to a 
greater problem. Normally, I start the engine by turning on the key, hitting 
the glow plug button for 30 seconds and then hitting the start button.   Never 
been a problem there.  Both times that this has happened, the engine was 
already warm and I just turned the key on, hit the start button and got no 
response.  Tried again a few seconds later and it started up fine both times.  
Is it possible that something needs a few seconds to power up after turning the 
key on (solenoid?)?  I don’t remember this being an issue in the past, but it 
is not often I start the engine by just turning the key and pushing start.  My 
start battery is a 10 year old AGM and has had no trouble cranking the engine 
in general, even after warming the glow plugs for 45 seconds. Thanks- Dave

David Knecht
S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT





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Re: Stus-List Engine starting issue

2020-07-31 Thread David Risch via CnC-List
Especially the grounds…

David F. Risch
Managing Director
Great Benefits USA
401-419-4650 - Direct Line
[https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1iPWGeVIdWdypHSMZPtJX0mxirxyZ4ZBN&revid=0B9uSW32EcB8tZGxlWW1OMlJ6MXU0bmVaaFByQmlSVDMrOWNVPQ]
www.greatbenefitsusa.com<http://secure-web.cisco.com/1MKVfvkygVP51lGc2yziNIFDb1f7QyqlMMC0Ws5XFwrh5Z29yk8V9-H-BpWPdc4H-KLGYNJ8xByn00jzsd-2Ha4CJqta-Oi4SR3zv-ilvvFQgk2r1dTGx91oAnCtrCtWX3971epXdF8ZQx6oCN2aVAz4G2C1e3AFPPZNeJDlLweF62zGZQ07PHpl8HRpYdWC2krf8nk8VytnngLfzo-HMlRvyliYY5btbWmG2ov1MoH8MQ_Pu-H9km1SSOFq4VsiFRn62vshzHwa2jYYWiHfn79noxm3wQLeI3kjNdWmHg705FbzWALYFp_QCz0Eu9z0S/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.greatbenefitsusa.com%2F>

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From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Doug Mountjoy via 
CnC-List
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 10:53 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com; CnC CnC discussion list 
Cc: Doug Mountjoy 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Engine starting issue

Sounds to me you might have some corrosion in the starter circuit. Check all 
the battery, ignition, and starter wires for tight and clean connections.
Do you hear a click when you try starting without glow plugs?



Doug Mountjoy
sv Rebecca Leah
C&C Landfall 39
Port Orchard yacht club

 Original message 
From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Date: 7/31/20 07:38 (GMT-08:00)
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Engine starting issue

Twice in the last week, I have noticed an issue that might be a prelude to a 
greater problem. Normally, I start the engine by turning on the key, hitting 
the glow plug button for 30 seconds and then hitting the start button.   Never 
been a problem there.  Both times that this has happened, the engine was 
already warm and I just turned the key on, hit the start button and got no 
response.  Tried again a few seconds later and it started up fine both times.  
Is it possible that something needs a few seconds to power up after turning the 
key on (solenoid?)?  I don’t remember this being an issue in the past, but it 
is not often I start the engine by just turning the key and pushing start.  My 
start battery is a 10 year old AGM and has had no trouble cranking the engine 
in general, even after warming the glow plugs for 45 seconds. Thanks- Dave

David Knecht
S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT

[X]


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Re: Stus-List Engine starting issue

2020-07-31 Thread Doug Mountjoy via CnC-List
Sounds to me you might have some corrosion in the starter circuit. Check all 
the battery, ignition, and starter wires for tight and clean connections. Do 
you hear a click when you try starting without glow plugs? Doug Mountjoysv 
Rebecca Leah C&C Landfall 39Port Orchard yacht club
 Original message From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
 Date: 7/31/20  07:38  (GMT-08:00) To: CnC CnC 
discussion list  Cc: David Knecht 
 Subject: Stus-List Engine starting issue 
Twice in the last week, I have noticed an issue that might be a prelude to a 
greater problem. Normally, I start the engine by turning on the key, hitting 
the glow plug button for 30 seconds and then hitting the start button.   Never 
been a problem there.  Both times that this has happened, the engine was 
already warm and I just turned the key on, hit the start button and got no 
response.  Tried again a few seconds later and it started up fine both times.  
Is it possible that something needs a few seconds to power up after turning the 
key on (solenoid?)?  I don’t remember this being an issue in the past, but it 
is not often I start the engine by just turning the key and pushing start.  My 
start battery is a 10 year old AGM and has had no trouble cranking the engine 
in general, even after warming the glow plugs for 45 seconds.     Thanks- Dave
David KnechtS/V Aries1990 C&C 34+New London, CT


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Re: Stus-List Engine starting issue

2020-07-31 Thread Joel Aronson via CnC-List
Yanmar?  Corrosion in the starting circuit.  Clean the connections at the
starter and work your way back to the switch.

Joel

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 10:44 AM David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Twice in the last week, I have noticed an issue that might be a prelude to
> a greater problem. Normally, I start the engine by turning on the key,
> hitting the glow plug button for 30 seconds and then hitting the start
> button.   Never been a problem there.  Both times that this has happened,
> the engine was already warm and I just turned the key on, hit the start
> button and got no response.  Tried again a few seconds later and it started
> up fine both times.  Is it possible that something needs a few seconds to
> power up after turning the key on (solenoid?)?  I don’t remember this being
> an issue in the past, but it is not often I start the engine by just
> turning the key and pushing start.  My start battery is a 10 year old AGM
> and has had no trouble cranking the engine in general, even after warming
> the glow plugs for 45 seconds. Thanks- Dave
>
> David Knecht
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>

-- 
Joel
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Stus-List Engine starting issue

2020-07-31 Thread David Knecht via CnC-List
Twice in the last week, I have noticed an issue that might be a prelude to a 
greater problem. Normally, I start the engine by turning on the key, hitting 
the glow plug button for 30 seconds and then hitting the start button.   Never 
been a problem there.  Both times that this has happened, the engine was 
already warm and I just turned the key on, hit the start button and got no 
response.  Tried again a few seconds later and it started up fine both times.  
Is it possible that something needs a few seconds to power up after turning the 
key on (solenoid?)?  I don’t remember this being an issue in the past, but it 
is not often I start the engine by just turning the key and pushing start.  My 
start battery is a 10 year old AGM and has had no trouble cranking the engine 
in general, even after warming the glow plugs for 45 seconds. Thanks- Dave

David Knecht
S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT





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