Re: Stus-List Gybe preventer, now Boom Brake
Or leave the main down downwind. Anytime it blowing hard enough to worry about jibing, main is probably not going to add alot of speed, but will cause more helm and worry. Jib alone is so simple. David F. Risch, J. D. Gulf Stream Associates, LLC (401) 419-4650 From: CnC-List on behalf of Bill Coleman via CnC-List Sent: Monday, March 18, 2019 9:46 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Bill Coleman Subject: Re: Stus-List Gybe preventer, now Boom Brake Or, you can chicken jibe, something I believe I will be doing more of in the future. Bill Coleman C 39 Erie, PA From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David Knecht via CnC-List Sent: Monday, March 18, 2019 9:03 AM To: CnC CnC discussion list Cc: David Knecht Subject: Re: Stus-List Gybe preventer, now Boom Brake Since I posted this, I have been doing some research on Cruisers Forum. THere are a number of people who use the Dutchman, swear by them, have installed them on multiple boats and would not have a boat without one. I suspect it is one of those devices that once you learn how to use it, you find it essential. Watching videos of it in action, I can see its utility, especially for single/short handed racing and cruising. First, it can act as a preventer, which eliminates the need for both. Without a brake, when you gybe in heavier air and you are trying to pull the main in to reduce the swing force, and so your steering angle becomes increasingly critical to not gybe, plus your speed decreases increasing the wind pressure on the main. The longer it takes you to pull in the main, the worse the problem and with a big purchase mainsheet, that can be alot of line. I raced single handed once last season in 20 knots and did a autopilot gybe that worked out fine but was hairy enough to scare me. With the Dutchman, you wait for max speed or a lull, gybe the boat and genoa, then release the brake to allow the boom to slowly swing over. At least in theory, it is much more controlled.If you are confident of your brake setting, you could simply gybe and let the brake do its job, but that would take some testing to work out. I still think this is an option worth considering for those of us who tend to sail shorthanded. Dave 1990 C 34+ New London, CT [cid:image001.png@01D4DD6F.632FEAA0] ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Gybe preventer, now Boom Brake
Or, you can chicken jibe, something I believe I will be doing more of in the future. Bill Coleman C 39 Erie, PA From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David Knecht via CnC-List Sent: Monday, March 18, 2019 9:03 AM To: CnC CnC discussion list Cc: David Knecht Subject: Re: Stus-List Gybe preventer, now Boom Brake Since I posted this, I have been doing some research on Cruisers Forum. THere are a number of people who use the Dutchman, swear by them, have installed them on multiple boats and would not have a boat without one. I suspect it is one of those devices that once you learn how to use it, you find it essential. Watching videos of it in action, I can see its utility, especially for single/short handed racing and cruising. First, it can act as a preventer, which eliminates the need for both. Without a brake, when you gybe in heavier air and you are trying to pull the main in to reduce the swing force, and so your steering angle becomes increasingly critical to not gybe, plus your speed decreases increasing the wind pressure on the main. The longer it takes you to pull in the main, the worse the problem and with a big purchase mainsheet, that can be alot of line. I raced single handed once last season in 20 knots and did a autopilot gybe that worked out fine but was hairy enough to scare me. With the Dutchman, you wait for max speed or a lull, gybe the boat and genoa, then release the brake to allow the boom to slowly swing over. At least in theory, it is much more controlled.If you are confident of your brake setting, you could simply gybe and let the brake do its job, but that would take some testing to work out. I still think this is an option worth considering for those of us who tend to sail shorthanded. Dave 1990 C 34+ New London, CT ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Gybe preventer, now Boom Brake
Since I posted this, I have been doing some research on Cruisers Forum. THere are a number of people who use the Dutchman, swear by them, have installed them on multiple boats and would not have a boat without one. I suspect it is one of those devices that once you learn how to use it, you find it essential. Watching videos of it in action, I can see its utility, especially for single/short handed racing and cruising. First, it can act as a preventer, which eliminates the need for both. Without a brake, when you gybe in heavier air and you are trying to pull the main in to reduce the swing force, and so your steering angle becomes increasingly critical to not gybe, plus your speed decreases increasing the wind pressure on the main. The longer it takes you to pull in the main, the worse the problem and with a big purchase mainsheet, that can be alot of line. I raced single handed once last season in 20 knots and did a autopilot gybe that worked out fine but was hairy enough to scare me. With the Dutchman, you wait for max speed or a lull, gybe the boat and genoa, then release the brake to allow the boom to slowly swing over. At least in theory, it is much more controlled.If you are confident of your brake setting, you could simply gybe and let the brake do its job, but that would take some testing to work out. I still think this is an option worth considering for those of us who tend to sail shorthanded. Dave 1990 C 34+ New London, CT ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Gybe preventer, now Boom Brake
I was a product safety lawyer for a number of years including autos and industrial machinery such as power presses. The number one rule is to never let the user be within a danger zone, for example hands should never be allowed under the ram of a press even if the operator tried to do so. By extension, the boom should be high enough so that even on an uncontrolled jibe it should clear the head of all onboard (rather than clear them of their head). Moreover, the safety of a topping lift can be vastly enhanced with a rigid Vang. The wind at the level of the boom is not very strong compared to the top of the mast so if you are tall enough to be hit you are better off shortening the sail and raising the boom and adding sail higher up with more roach. Jerry Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 17, 2019, at 9:05 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List > wrote: > > I think this is an interesting read: > https://www.sail-world.com/news/208083/?source=email or even better: > https://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/commercial/safety/accidents-reporting/accident-reports/documents/Platino-mnz-accident-report-2016.pdf > (from the horse’s mouth, a PDF). > > Even with the boom preventer one should be careful how the boats is helmed. > > The main issue there was not related to the boom preventer, but the preventer > itself was incorrectly rigged and failed catastrophically. > > On any boat of reasonable size (anything bigger than a dingy) I always gybe > using the mainsheet to bring the boom to the centreline and then releasing it > in controlled manner. By doing it always, I make sure that I would do it > correctly, when the wind is strong enough to make any damage. > > Marek > > From: CnC-List On Behalf Of Josh Muckley via > CnC-List > Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2019 19:37 > To: C List > Cc: Josh Muckley > Subject: Re: Stus-List Gybe preventer, now Boom Brake > > In my opinion boom brakes are more work and clutter than they are worth. I > always tend the mainsheet when performing a gybe. By tend I mean center the > traveler and pull in the sheet to center the boom. As the gybe occurs I > quickly release the sheet. On multiple occasions I've seen main sails pop as > a result of uncontrolled or "forced over" gybes. > > Care is always required when going downwind but with an attentive helmsman a > preventer can sometimes be avoided. Most boats are actually slower dead > downwind so pick one side or the other. The most often time when a preventer > is unavoidable is wing and wing. > > Josh Muckley > S/V Sea Hawk > 1989 C 37+ > Solomons, MD > > > > On Sun, Mar 17, 2019, 11:08 AM David Knecht via CnC-List > wrote: > Thanks for all the info on preventers. I plan to use the advice to rig one > when spring finally arrives and use it on long downwind cruises. This > discussion also led me to look into boom brakes. I have always been > concerned about getting hit by the boom on a gybe, and being 6’ 3”, it is a > particular problem. I had never thought of a boom brake as a device for my > safety as opposed to the boat’s safety but realize now that this might be > well worth installing on both accounts. They seem to come in simple > inexpensive solutions (https://dreamgreen.org/boom-brake) to more complicated > and expensive devices (http://www.boom-brake-walder.com). In all cases, I > worry about another couple of lines to trip over when moving on the side > decks, thus trading one hazard for another. Thoughts? Dave > > S/V Aries > 1990 C 34+ > New London, CT > > > > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and > every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and > every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Gybe preventer, now Boom Brake
I think this is an interesting read: https://www.sail-world.com/news/208083/?source=email or even better: https://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/commercial/safety/accidents-reporting/accident-reports/documents/Platino-mnz-accident-report-2016.pdf (from the horse’s mouth, a PDF). Even with the boom preventer one should be careful how the boats is helmed. The main issue there was not related to the boom preventer, but the preventer itself was incorrectly rigged and failed catastrophically. On any boat of reasonable size (anything bigger than a dingy) I always gybe using the mainsheet to bring the boom to the centreline and then releasing it in controlled manner. By doing it always, I make sure that I would do it correctly, when the wind is strong enough to make any damage. Marek From: CnC-List On Behalf Of Josh Muckley via CnC-List Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2019 19:37 To: C List Cc: Josh Muckley Subject: Re: Stus-List Gybe preventer, now Boom Brake In my opinion boom brakes are more work and clutter than they are worth. I always tend the mainsheet when performing a gybe. By tend I mean center the traveler and pull in the sheet to center the boom. As the gybe occurs I quickly release the sheet. On multiple occasions I've seen main sails pop as a result of uncontrolled or "forced over" gybes. Care is always required when going downwind but with an attentive helmsman a preventer can sometimes be avoided. Most boats are actually slower dead downwind so pick one side or the other. The most often time when a preventer is unavoidable is wing and wing. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C 37+ Solomons, MD On Sun, Mar 17, 2019, 11:08 AM David Knecht via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: Thanks for all the info on preventers. I plan to use the advice to rig one when spring finally arrives and use it on long downwind cruises. This discussion also led me to look into boom brakes. I have always been concerned about getting hit by the boom on a gybe, and being 6’ 3”, it is a particular problem. I had never thought of a boom brake as a device for my safety as opposed to the boat’s safety but realize now that this might be well worth installing on both accounts. They seem to come in simple inexpensive solutions (https://dreamgreen.org/boom-brake<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdreamgreen.org%2Fboom-brake=02%7C01%7C%7C83e07bc7583845238b0208d6ab31a4e4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636884627034088199=PFxvGoFY5xTLIxjvCxtBu3j6xWpjc%2FJEvt2uYPnzWVI%3D=0>) to more complicated and expensive devices (http://www.boom-brake-walder.com<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.boom-brake-walder.com=02%7C01%7C%7C83e07bc7583845238b0208d6ab31a4e4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636884627034098204=rE8nUqyRJlvAry%2FFKH%2FxF%2BRPTZGgav15wbvPKj6FU9g%3D=0>). In all cases, I worry about another couple of lines to trip over when moving on the side decks, thus trading one hazard for another. Thoughts? Dave S/V Aries 1990 C 34+ New London, CT [cid:4073BE72-4704-4EA7-8EBA-B73B833F502B] ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.paypal.me%2Fstumurray=02%7C01%7C%7C83e07bc7583845238b0208d6ab31a4e4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636884627034108215=EHqZ7b%2FM%2FTMvKkfmwxtg26GuRp86jhKgVAWtBmbk5zA%3D=0> ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Gybe preventer, now Boom Brake
I'm another who is leary of boom-brakes. They clutter the decks too much and I hate a mid boom preventer because it's so easy for them to break the boom in an accidental gybe or if the end of the boom gets dragged in the water--not something to worry about with IOR designed C like my old 40, but Masquerade has quite a long boom and the drag could be quite considerable. What I've done on my boat is rig a couple of strong lengths of dyneema from padeyes at the end of the boom to near the gooseneck. That allows me to attach a line from the bow back to loops in the dyneema and rig a proper preventer. Essentially, that makes for a preventer from the bow to the end of the boom. Having the dyneema to the end of the boom saves me having to center the boom in order to attach the preventer, which would be a pain and dangerous in any kind of sea. Andy Andrew Burton 139 Tuckerman Ave Middletown, RI USA02842 www.burtonsailing.com http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ +401 965-5260 > On Mar 17, 2019, at 19:37, Josh Muckley via CnC-List > wrote: > > In my opinion boom brakes are more work and clutter than they are worth. I > always tend the mainsheet when performing a gybe. By tend I mean center the > traveler and pull in the sheet to center the boom. As the gybe occurs I > quickly release the sheet. On multiple occasions I've seen main sails pop as > a result of uncontrolled or "forced over" gybes. > > Care is always required when going downwind but with an attentive helmsman a > preventer can sometimes be avoided. Most boats are actually slower dead > downwind so pick one side or the other. The most often time when a preventer > is unavoidable is wing and wing. > > Josh Muckley > S/V Sea Hawk > 1989 C 37+ > Solomons, MD > > > >> On Sun, Mar 17, 2019, 11:08 AM David Knecht via CnC-List >> wrote: >> Thanks for all the info on preventers. I plan to use the advice to rig one >> when spring finally arrives and use it on long downwind cruises. This >> discussion also led me to look into boom brakes. I have always been >> concerned about getting hit by the boom on a gybe, and being 6’ 3”, it is a >> particular problem. I had never thought of a boom brake as a device for my >> safety as opposed to the boat’s safety but realize now that this might be >> well worth installing on both accounts. They seem to come in simple >> inexpensive solutions (https://dreamgreen.org/boom-brake) to more >> complicated and expensive devices (http://www.boom-brake-walder.com). In >> all cases, I worry about another couple of lines to trip over when moving on >> the side decks, thus trading one hazard for another. Thoughts? Dave >> >> S/V Aries >> 1990 C 34+ >> New London, CT >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and >> every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use >> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >> > > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and > every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Gybe preventer, now Boom Brake
In my opinion boom brakes are more work and clutter than they are worth. I always tend the mainsheet when performing a gybe. By tend I mean center the traveler and pull in the sheet to center the boom. As the gybe occurs I quickly release the sheet. On multiple occasions I've seen main sails pop as a result of uncontrolled or "forced over" gybes. Care is always required when going downwind but with an attentive helmsman a preventer can sometimes be avoided. Most boats are actually slower dead downwind so pick one side or the other. The most often time when a preventer is unavoidable is wing and wing. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C 37+ Solomons, MD On Sun, Mar 17, 2019, 11:08 AM David Knecht via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Thanks for all the info on preventers. I plan to use the advice to rig > one when spring finally arrives and use it on long downwind cruises. This > discussion also led me to look into boom brakes. I have always been > concerned about getting hit by the boom on a gybe, and being 6’ 3”, it is a > particular problem. I had never thought of a boom brake as a device for my > safety as opposed to the boat’s safety but realize now that this might be > well worth installing on both accounts. They seem to come in simple > inexpensive solutions (https://dreamgreen.org/boom-brake) to more > complicated and expensive devices (http://www.boom-brake-walder.com). In > all cases, I worry about another couple of lines to trip over when moving > on the side decks, thus trading one hazard for another. Thoughts? Dave > > S/V Aries > 1990 C 34+ > New London, CT > > > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Gybe preventer, now Boom Brake
David, in light winds yes .. it will serve purpose of reducing energy & injury, if you get hit with boom. In heavy winds... not so much, you would be badly injured or worse even w boom break. On Sun, Mar 17, 2019 at 11:08 AM David Knecht via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Thanks for all the info on preventers. I plan to use the advice to rig > one when spring finally arrives and use it on long downwind cruises. This > discussion also led me to look into boom brakes. I have always been > concerned about getting hit by the boom on a gybe, and being 6’ 3”, it is a > particular problem. I had never thought of a boom brake as a device for my > safety as opposed to the boat’s safety but realize now that this might be > well worth installing on both accounts. They seem to come in simple > inexpensive solutions (https://dreamgreen.org/boom-brake) to more > complicated and expensive devices (http://www.boom-brake-walder.com). In > all cases, I worry about another couple of lines to trip over when moving > on the side decks, thus trading one hazard for another. Thoughts? Dave > > S/V Aries > 1990 C 34+ > New London, CT > > > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Gybe preventer, now Boom Brake
Thanks for all the info on preventers. I plan to use the advice to rig one when spring finally arrives and use it on long downwind cruises. This discussion also led me to look into boom brakes. I have always been concerned about getting hit by the boom on a gybe, and being 6’ 3”, it is a particular problem. I had never thought of a boom brake as a device for my safety as opposed to the boat’s safety but realize now that this might be well worth installing on both accounts. They seem to come in simple inexpensive solutions (https://dreamgreen.org/boom-brake) to more complicated and expensive devices (http://www.boom-brake-walder.com). In all cases, I worry about another couple of lines to trip over when moving on the side decks, thus trading one hazard for another. Thoughts? Dave S/V Aries 1990 C 34+ New London, CT ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
