Re: Stus-List How to attach a rigid boom vang on LF38

[Patrick Davin via CnC-List]

Ah, yes, your blog post has a good picture of one possible setup with a
rigid vang.
Doesn't the vang hit the mainsheet when you're on a port downwind tack?
I've had issues with even my non-rigid vang doing that, and it makes it
difficult to sheet the main in.

Good call on using the deck block for the vang control line - I forgot I'll
need something for that to run it back to the cockpit - so that block won't
go to waste.

My 2 cents on the lines led aft vs at mast debate: It probably depends on
what area of the world you cruise in, but here in the PNW when it's cold
and rainy I'd much rather stay under the dodger and bimini.

-Patrick

On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 1:56 PM,  wrote:

> From: Dreuge 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 13:42:59 -0500
> Subject: Re: Stus-List How to attach a rigid boom vang on LF38
>
> Sorry, I forgot to change the subject heading before.
> ———
>
>
> Patrick,
>
> My  mainsheet block is  attached to the mast collar.  I have a block lead
> like the one you mention, it is used for the rigid vang control, in my case
> a Selden Rodkicker 20.
>
>
> I have a photo of the set up on the blog where I describe replacing the
> gas shock for the rodkicker.
>
>
> http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/2015/11/repairing-broken-selden-rodkicker.html
>
>
>
> -
> Paul E.
> 1981 C&C 38 Landfall
> S/V Johanna Rose
> Carrabelle, FL
>
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Re: Stus-List How to attach a rigid boom vang on LF38

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

I am wondering... could you simply get rid of the part of the mainsheet leading 
forward? I am actually surprised that on a 38' boat you have only a 4:1 
purchase for the mainsheet. I have a totally different boat, but I got rid of 
the mainsheet going forward (and then back to a clutch and a winch).  
Originally, I had a very similar set-up, with a 4:1 mainsheet. Instead, I 
installed 3:1/6:1 mainsheet blocks (it is double-ended). This works much 
better. There is never a problem with releasing the sheet (in the old setup it 
was an issue when close hauled in heavy weather), the 3:1 works really well, 
esp. for jibing, the 6:1 is great for fine trimming. As an added bonus I have 
room for the Boomkicker and I freed a clutch (I use it for the vang).

Just a thought.

Marek
1994 C270 “Legato”
Ottawa 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10


From: Frederick G Street via CnC-List
Sent: December 21, 2015 12:59
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Frederick G Street
Subject: Re: Stus-List How to attach a rigid boom vang on LF38

Patrick — I basically replaced two blocks, each with a roughly 90-degree lead 
(at the mast/boom gooseneck, and at the mast partners), with a single block 
with about a 150-degree lead at the deck collar.  With enough purchase at the 
boom for the sheet (in my case, 4:1), I just need to overcome the friction of 
that one acute lead.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

On Dec 21, 2015, at 11:35 AM, Patrick Davin via CnC-List 
 wrote:

I think I see what you're saying... a bit hard to visualize without pictures. 
But it sounds like you moved the forwardmost deck lead to the mast collar, and 
then from there to the boom you skipped / eliminated the forward-most lead on 
the boom (where the line would normally go vertically almost straight up to), 
going instead to a mid-boom (slightly aft of vang) block? 

I think the angles on that would work. One concern I had with that - that makes 
the sheeting angle at the mast collar block acute? As in about 45-60 degrees, 
rather than 90 degrees or so?  I thought 90 or more was advisable since sharp 
acute angles exert higher loads. Although I guess that just means use a strong 
enough block. 

It sounds like most people's solutions end up abandoning the deck-mounted 
turning block behind the mast collar. The only downside to that is my mast 
collar is getting crowded. But I think I can free up room by moving the jib 
halyard forward stbd one position.

-Patrick


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Re: Stus-List How to attach a rigid boom vang on LF38

[svpegasus38]

Bob, when I got my new Doyle main. Jim Kitchen suggestrd that I install a 
padeye and cleat on either side of the mast so the line would pull forward and 
down. This for the tack. For the clew I took another line tied around boom 
(loose footed) thru the reef point and back to a cheek block on boom then 
forward to a cleat. This works quite well. 
Doug MountjoysvPegasusLF38 just west of Ballard, WA.




-- Original message--From: Robert Boyer via CnC-List Date: Mon, Dec 21, 
2015 05:05To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com;Cc: Robert Boyer;Patrick Davin;Subject:Re: 
Stus-List How to attach a rigid boom vang on LF38
I don't have a rigid vang but I also don't have a padeye mounted on deck on the 
centerline.  I use the holes in the base of the mount to mount all sheaves 
leading aft.  I am in the midst of a project where I am increasing lines led 
aft and changing the mainsail reefing system (haven't decided how yet but 
getting rid of the "cow horns" near mast).
Bob

Sent from my iPhone, Bob Boyer
On Dec 20, 2015, at 11:50 PM, Patrick Davin via CnC-List 
 wrote:

I'm thinking of getting a Garhauer rigid vang. Only problem - the dang 
mainsheet block lead is in the way. It's mounted on deck in the standard 
location a few inches behind the mast collar, then the main sheet runs 
vertically up to a boom block. If I mount the boom vang to port of the main 
sheet, it'll bind / rub on a starboard broad reach (I think). Or similarly for 
the other side. 

How have other LF38 owners attached a rigid vang? I'm sure there are more than 
just one who have made the upgrade. 

Wally has some good writeups on his running rigging and moving his main sheet 
padeye. But, it's not clear to me exactly how he ran the vang, and it seems 
like he was unhappy with how the main sheet padeye move worked out (it ended up 
being in the way). And I'm not sure if he ever installed the rigid vang he was 
thinking of upgrading to. 

http://www.wbryant.com/StellaBoat/Projects/runrig/mapadeye/mpad.htm

http://www.wbryant.com/StellaBoat/Projects/runrig/pad2/pad2.htm

I know from the archives that Nick of "Parbleu!" installed a Garhauer vang, but 
he didn't mention anything of changing the leads. 
http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/2011-January/036831.html

Maybe it doesn't matter because although the mainsheet will get bent a bit by 
the vang, the smooth metal won't be enough to chafe it or make trimming 
difficult? Or does everyone move their main sheet padeye?

Here's a pic of the current layout:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxfHpwssU_6NY0ZoeVBpV244UDQ/view?usp=sharing

Main sheet is the red one, and the turning block immediately to stbd of it 
(white line with blue/black tracers) is the current non-rigid vang attached to 
the mast collar. That one binds too, but it's not too bad because the 
block+shackle gets it out far enough that usually just the blocks are hitting.

-Patrick
1984 C&C Landfall 38
Seattle, WA
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Re: Stus-List How to attach a rigid boom vang on LF38

[Dreuge via CnC-List]

Sorry, I forgot to change the subject heading before.
———


Patrick,

My  mainsheet block is  attached to the mast collar.  I have a block lead like 
the one you mention, it is used for the rigid vang control, in my case a Selden 
Rodkicker 20.


I have a photo of the set up on the blog where I describe replacing the gas 
shock for the rodkicker.

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/2015/11/repairing-broken-selden-rodkicker.html



-
Paul E.
1981 C&C 38 Landfall 
S/V Johanna Rose
Carrabelle, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/




> 
>> On Dec 21, 2015, at 11:07 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com 
>> <mailto:cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 20:50:43 -0800
>> From: Patrick Davin mailto:jda...@gmail.com> 
>> <mailto:jda...@gmail.com <mailto:jda...@gmail.com>>>
>> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
>> <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>" 
>> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
>> <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>>
>> Subject: Stus-List How to attach a rigid boom vang on LF38
>> Message-ID:
>>  > <mailto:cahixy6r+cav763hreds5_8le9mwcvqxyx9natjbhv0uwxha...@mail.gmail.com><mailto:cahixy6r+cav763hreds5_8le9mwcvqxyx9natjbhv0uwxha...@mail.gmail.com
>>  
>> <mailto:cahixy6r+cav763hreds5_8le9mwcvqxyx9natjbhv0uwxha...@mail.gmail.com>>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> I'm thinking of getting a Garhauer rigid vang. Only problem - the dang
>> mainsheet block lead is in the way. It's mounted on deck in the standard
>> location a few inches behind the mast collar, then the main sheet runs
>> vertically up to a boom block. If I mount the boom vang to port of the main
>> sheet, it'll bind / rub on a starboard broad reach (I think). Or similarly
>> for the other side.
>> 
>> How have other LF38 owners attached a rigid vang? I'm sure there are more
>> than just one who have made the upgrade.
>> 
>> Wally has some good writeups on his running rigging and moving his main
>> sheet padeye. But, it's not clear to me exactly how he ran the vang, and it
>> seems like he was unhappy with how the main sheet padeye move worked out
>> (it ended up being in the way). And I'm not sure if he ever installed the
>> rigid vang he was thinking of upgrading to.
>> 
>> http://www.wbryant.com/StellaBoat/Projects/runrig/mapadeye/mpad.htm 
>> <http://www.wbryant.com/StellaBoat/Projects/runrig/mapadeye/mpad.htm> 
>> <http://www.wbryant.com/StellaBoat/Projects/runrig/mapadeye/mpad.htm 
>> <http://www.wbryant.com/StellaBoat/Projects/runrig/mapadeye/mpad.htm>>
>> 
>> http://www.wbryant.com/StellaBoat/Projects/runrig/pad2/pad2.htm 
>> <http://www.wbryant.com/StellaBoat/Projects/runrig/pad2/pad2.htm> 
>> <http://www.wbryant.com/StellaBoat/Projects/runrig/pad2/pad2.htm 
>> <http://www.wbryant.com/StellaBoat/Projects/runrig/pad2/pad2.htm>>
>> 
>> I know from the archives that Nick of "Parbleu!" installed a Garhauer vang,
>> but he didn't mention anything of changing the leads.
>> http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/2011-January/036831.html 
>> <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/2011-January/036831.html>
>>  
>> <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/2011-January/036831.html
>>  
>> <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/2011-January/036831.html>>
>> 
>> Maybe it doesn't matter because although the mainsheet will get bent a bit
>> by the vang, the smooth metal won't be enough to chafe it or make trimming
>> difficult? Or does everyone move their main sheet padeye?
>> 
>> Here's a pic of the current layout:
>> 
>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxfHpwssU_6NY0ZoeVBpV244UDQ/view?usp=sharing
>>  
>> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxfHpwssU_6NY0ZoeVBpV244UDQ/view?usp=sharing>
>>  
>> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxfHpwssU_6NY0ZoeVBpV244UDQ/view?usp=sharing
>>  
>> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxfHpwssU_6NY0ZoeVBpV244UDQ/view?usp=sharing>>
>> 
>> Main sheet is the red one, and the turning block immediately to stbd of it
>> (white line with blue/black tracers) is the current non-rigid vang attached
>> to the mast collar. That one binds too, but it's not too bad because the
>> block+shackle gets it out far enough that usually just the blocks are
>> hitting.
>> 
>> -Patrick
>> 1984 C&C Landfall 38
>> Seattle, WA
> 
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/attachments/20151221/05e37279/attachment-0001.html
>  
> <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/attachments/20151221/05e37279/attachment-0001.html>>

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Re: Stus-List How to attach a rigid boom vang on LF38

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Patrick — I basically replaced two blocks, each with a roughly 90-degree lead 
(at the mast/boom gooseneck, and at the mast partners), with a single block 
with about a 150-degree lead at the deck collar.  With enough purchase at the 
boom for the sheet (in my case, 4:1), I just need to overcome the friction of 
that one acute lead.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Dec 21, 2015, at 11:35 AM, Patrick Davin via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I think I see what you're saying... a bit hard to visualize without pictures. 
> But it sounds like you moved the forwardmost deck lead to the mast collar, 
> and then from there to the boom you skipped / eliminated the forward-most 
> lead on the boom (where the line would normally go vertically almost straight 
> up to), going instead to a mid-boom (slightly aft of vang) block? 
> 
> I think the angles on that would work. One concern I had with that - that 
> makes the sheeting angle at the mast collar block acute? As in about 45-60 
> degrees, rather than 90 degrees or so?  I thought 90 or more was advisable 
> since sharp acute angles exert higher loads. Although I guess that just means 
> use a strong enough block. 
> 
> It sounds like most people's solutions end up abandoning the deck-mounted 
> turning block behind the mast collar. The only downside to that is my mast 
> collar is getting crowded. But I think I can free up room by moving the jib 
> halyard forward stbd one position.
> 
> -Patrick

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Re: Stus-List How to attach a rigid boom vang on LF38

[Patrick Davin via CnC-List]

I think I see what you're saying... a bit hard to visualize without
pictures. But it sounds like you moved the forwardmost deck lead to the
mast collar, and then from there to the boom you skipped / eliminated the
forward-most lead on the boom (where the line would normally go vertically
almost straight up to), going instead to a mid-boom (slightly aft of vang)
block?

I think the angles on that would work. One concern I had with that - that
makes the sheeting angle at the mast collar block acute? As in about 45-60
degrees, rather than 90 degrees or so?  I thought 90 or more was advisable
since sharp acute angles exert higher loads. Although I guess that just
means use a strong enough block.

It sounds like most people's solutions end up abandoning the deck-mounted
turning block behind the mast collar. The only downside to that is my mast
collar is getting crowded. But I think I can free up room by moving the jib
halyard forward stbd one position.

-Patrick

On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 9:00 AM,  wrote:

> From: Frederick G Street 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 10:23:49 -0600
> Subject: Re: Stus-List How to attach a rigid boom vang on LF38
> Patrick — I scratched my head on that one for a little while, too; but I
> finally realized that the mainsheet does NOT need to follow the boom all
> the way to the mast.  I have two fiddle blocks attached to the bottom of
> the boom to spread the mainsheet load from the fiddle block on the
> traveler.  From the forward one of those blocks, the line then angles down
> to the mast collar, where it turns on a block to head back to the cockpit.
> So the mainsheet basically parallels (and is beneath) the Garhauer rigid
> vang, which is mounted to the boom ahead of that fiddle block.
>
> — Fred
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>
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Re: Stus-List How to attach a rigid boom vang on LF38

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Patrick — I scratched my head on that one for a little while, too; but I 
finally realized that the mainsheet does NOT need to follow the boom all the 
way to the mast.  I have two fiddle blocks attached to the bottom of the boom 
to spread the mainsheet load from the fiddle block on the traveler.  From the 
forward one of those blocks, the line then angles down to the mast collar, 
where it turns on a block to head back to the cockpit.  So the mainsheet 
basically parallels (and is beneath) the Garhauer rigid vang, which is mounted 
to the boom ahead of that fiddle block.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Dec 20, 2015, at 10:50 PM, Patrick Davin via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'm thinking of getting a Garhauer rigid vang. Only problem - the dang 
> mainsheet block lead is in the way. It's mounted on deck in the standard 
> location a few inches behind the mast collar, then the main sheet runs 
> vertically up to a boom block. If I mount the boom vang to port of the main 
> sheet, it'll bind / rub on a starboard broad reach (I think). Or similarly 
> for the other side. 
> 
> How have other LF38 owners attached a rigid vang? I'm sure there are more 
> than just one who have made the upgrade. 
> 
> Wally has some good writeups on his running rigging and moving his main sheet 
> padeye. But, it's not clear to me exactly how he ran the vang, and it seems 
> like he was unhappy with how the main sheet padeye move worked out (it ended 
> up being in the way). And I'm not sure if he ever installed the rigid vang he 
> was thinking of upgrading to. 
> 
> http://www.wbryant.com/StellaBoat/Projects/runrig/mapadeye/mpad.htm 
> 
> 
> http://www.wbryant.com/StellaBoat/Projects/runrig/pad2/pad2.htm 
> 
> 
> I know from the archives that Nick of "Parbleu!" installed a Garhauer vang, 
> but he didn't mention anything of changing the leads. 
> http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/2011-January/036831.html 
> 
> 
> Maybe it doesn't matter because although the mainsheet will get bent a bit by 
> the vang, the smooth metal won't be enough to chafe it or make trimming 
> difficult? Or does everyone move their main sheet padeye?
> 
> Here's a pic of the current layout:
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxfHpwssU_6NY0ZoeVBpV244UDQ/view?usp=sharing 
> 
> 
> Main sheet is the red one, and the turning block immediately to stbd of it 
> (white line with blue/black tracers) is the current non-rigid vang attached 
> to the mast collar. That one binds too, but it's not too bad because the 
> block+shackle gets it out far enough that usually just the blocks are hitting.
> 
> -Patrick
> 1984 C&C Landfall 38
> Seattle, WA

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Re: Stus-List How to attach a rigid boom vang on LF38

[Robert Boyer via CnC-List]

I don't have a rigid vang but I also don't have a padeye mounted on deck on the 
centerline.  I use the holes in the base of the mount to mount all sheaves 
leading aft.  I am in the midst of a project where I am increasing lines led 
aft and changing the mainsail reefing system (haven't decided how yet but 
getting rid of the "cow horns" near mast).

Bob

Sent from my iPhone, Bob Boyer

> On Dec 20, 2015, at 11:50 PM, Patrick Davin via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'm thinking of getting a Garhauer rigid vang. Only problem - the dang 
> mainsheet block lead is in the way. It's mounted on deck in the standard 
> location a few inches behind the mast collar, then the main sheet runs 
> vertically up to a boom block. If I mount the boom vang to port of the main 
> sheet, it'll bind / rub on a starboard broad reach (I think). Or similarly 
> for the other side. 
> 
> How have other LF38 owners attached a rigid vang? I'm sure there are more 
> than just one who have made the upgrade. 
> 
> Wally has some good writeups on his running rigging and moving his main sheet 
> padeye. But, it's not clear to me exactly how he ran the vang, and it seems 
> like he was unhappy with how the main sheet padeye move worked out (it ended 
> up being in the way). And I'm not sure if he ever installed the rigid vang he 
> was thinking of upgrading to. 
> 
> http://www.wbryant.com/StellaBoat/Projects/runrig/mapadeye/mpad.htm
> 
> http://www.wbryant.com/StellaBoat/Projects/runrig/pad2/pad2.htm
> 
> I know from the archives that Nick of "Parbleu!" installed a Garhauer vang, 
> but he didn't mention anything of changing the leads. 
> http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/2011-January/036831.html
> 
> Maybe it doesn't matter because although the mainsheet will get bent a bit by 
> the vang, the smooth metal won't be enough to chafe it or make trimming 
> difficult? Or does everyone move their main sheet padeye?
> 
> Here's a pic of the current layout:
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxfHpwssU_6NY0ZoeVBpV244UDQ/view?usp=sharing
> 
> Main sheet is the red one, and the turning block immediately to stbd of it 
> (white line with blue/black tracers) is the current non-rigid vang attached 
> to the mast collar. That one binds too, but it's not too bad because the 
> block+shackle gets it out far enough that usually just the blocks are hitting.
> 
> -Patrick
> 1984 C&C Landfall 38
> Seattle, WA
> 
> ___
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
> of page at:
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> 
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Stus-List How to attach a rigid boom vang on LF38

[Patrick Davin via CnC-List]

I'm thinking of getting a Garhauer rigid vang. Only problem - the dang
mainsheet block lead is in the way. It's mounted on deck in the standard
location a few inches behind the mast collar, then the main sheet runs
vertically up to a boom block. If I mount the boom vang to port of the main
sheet, it'll bind / rub on a starboard broad reach (I think). Or similarly
for the other side.

How have other LF38 owners attached a rigid vang? I'm sure there are more
than just one who have made the upgrade.

Wally has some good writeups on his running rigging and moving his main
sheet padeye. But, it's not clear to me exactly how he ran the vang, and it
seems like he was unhappy with how the main sheet padeye move worked out
(it ended up being in the way). And I'm not sure if he ever installed the
rigid vang he was thinking of upgrading to.

http://www.wbryant.com/StellaBoat/Projects/runrig/mapadeye/mpad.htm

http://www.wbryant.com/StellaBoat/Projects/runrig/pad2/pad2.htm

I know from the archives that Nick of "Parbleu!" installed a Garhauer vang,
but he didn't mention anything of changing the leads.
http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/2011-January/036831.html

Maybe it doesn't matter because although the mainsheet will get bent a bit
by the vang, the smooth metal won't be enough to chafe it or make trimming
difficult? Or does everyone move their main sheet padeye?

Here's a pic of the current layout:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxfHpwssU_6NY0ZoeVBpV244UDQ/view?usp=sharing

Main sheet is the red one, and the turning block immediately to stbd of it
(white line with blue/black tracers) is the current non-rigid vang attached
to the mast collar. That one binds too, but it's not too bad because the
block+shackle gets it out far enough that usually just the blocks are
hitting.

-Patrick
1984 C&C Landfall 38
Seattle, WA
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