Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOWFUEL CHARACTERISTICS
We have a 10' Achilles with a wood floor 8 hp nissan. With the motor off and the dink empty it's very light doesn't slow us down at all. I keep it short and directly in back of the big boat even if it flips (and it hasn't in a long time ) no problem, just get it to flip back. that's my story and I'm stickin to it ! Gary Kolc Liberty dwight veinot via CnC-List wrote: > Joe, I have a 10 foot Caribe RIB and a 9.8 Tohatsu 4 stroke. Together with > full fuel tank in the dinghy that's about 200 pounds and I find it a bit > much for towing behind and it doesn't tow well at all; even with the > outboard fully raised the prop can drag in the water at 6 kts so for > cruising last summer I used my little 8 foot fiberglass dinghy and oars, a > little more care required in getting on and off the boat without tipping > the dinghy but much easier to tow behind...it does the trick, but I plan to > get a little Suzuki 2.5 hp instead, that will work nice on the little > fiberglass dinghy when cruising and I'll use my Caribe setup for back and > forth to the mooring. > > Dwight Veinot > C&C 35 MKII, *Alianna* > Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS > d.ve...@bellaliant.net > > > On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 5:46 PM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > > > My Avon 340 RIB has never even got close to flipping in the Chesapeake. I > > would have to get some other kind of dinghy if I went someplace I could not > > tow it, no way the 15 HP engine is coming off except once a year for a > > fresh water flush. > > Joe > > Coquina > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of > > ahycrace--- via CnC-List > > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 4:19 PM > > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > > Cc: ahycr...@cox.net > > Subject: Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOWFUEL > > CHARACTERISTICS > > > > We had the dink flip over in buzzards bay and we were lucky to get most > > of the contents back so now (for the last 20 yrs) we never keep anything in > > it when we are underway. > > > >Gary Kolc > > "Liberty" > > "Della Barba wrote: > > > +1 > > > Dinghy gas is in the dinghy. > > > I once got to listen to speech about how dangerous my Atomic 4 was from > > the skipper of a Cabo Rico with diesel power. He then proceeded to dig a > > Clorox bottle full of gasoline out of the engine room to fuel his dinghy! > > > Joe > > > Coquina > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > Email address: > > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the > > bottom of page at: > > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com > > > > > > ___ > > > > Email address: > > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the > > bottom of page at: > > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com > > > > ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOWFUEL CHARACTERISTICS
Joe, I have a 10 foot Caribe RIB and a 9.8 Tohatsu 4 stroke. Together with full fuel tank in the dinghy that's about 200 pounds and I find it a bit much for towing behind and it doesn't tow well at all; even with the outboard fully raised the prop can drag in the water at 6 kts so for cruising last summer I used my little 8 foot fiberglass dinghy and oars, a little more care required in getting on and off the boat without tipping the dinghy but much easier to tow behind...it does the trick, but I plan to get a little Suzuki 2.5 hp instead, that will work nice on the little fiberglass dinghy when cruising and I'll use my Caribe setup for back and forth to the mooring. Dwight Veinot C&C 35 MKII, *Alianna* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 5:46 PM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > My Avon 340 RIB has never even got close to flipping in the Chesapeake. I > would have to get some other kind of dinghy if I went someplace I could not > tow it, no way the 15 HP engine is coming off except once a year for a > fresh water flush. > Joe > Coquina > > > -Original Message- > From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of > ahycrace--- via CnC-List > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 4:19 PM > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Cc: ahycr...@cox.net > Subject: Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOWFUEL > CHARACTERISTICS > > We had the dink flip over in buzzards bay and we were lucky to get most > of the contents back so now (for the last 20 yrs) we never keep anything in > it when we are underway. > >Gary Kolc > "Liberty" > "Della Barba wrote: > > +1 > > Dinghy gas is in the dinghy. > > I once got to listen to speech about how dangerous my Atomic 4 was from > the skipper of a Cabo Rico with diesel power. He then proceeded to dig a > Clorox bottle full of gasoline out of the engine room to fuel his dinghy! > > Joe > > Coquina > > > > > > > > ___ > > Email address: > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the > bottom of page at: > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com > > > ___ > > Email address: > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the > bottom of page at: > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com > > ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOWFUEL CHARACTERISTICS
On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 6:50 PM, Ahmet wrote: > Well, it is a combination. A good example here: > The C&C 25 has an aft compartment under the tiller, where the gas tank > sits. It is practically on the cockpit, and any fumes just drain out from a > little drain hole. > Now some industrious owners (like a previous owner of "Tabasco") decided > to open up that area and have more space in the cockpit. Which is > wonderful, but now, the fule tank is in a lazarette locker, hence any fumes > or fuel leaks from an expansion, will leak into the bilge. > So I am paranoid, and open up and smell the lazarettes every time. When I > get a chance, I will rebuild a new fuel tank compartment in the aft section > of the cockpit. > So dinghy fuel tanks, propane or what not are very safe as long as there > is room for the accidentally escaped gas to get away from the inside of the > boat. > I once had a bad junction in my propane tank. 10 lbs of propane leaked > within a day out thtough the went hole into the the ocean/air, and nobody > was ever in danger. > Ahmet > S/V Waterdancer Irwin 43 CC > Tabasco (C&C 25) > > > *(just for kicks .. previous boats:)Tapalonong 1995 Whaler Dountless 13 * > > > *S/V Nomad 1984 Catalina 36S/V Harmony 1972 Bristol 26Second Wind 1987 Sea > Ray 30 Sundancer* > *Kismet 2002 MacGregor 26X* > > > > On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 5:09 PM, jtsails via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > >> since no one else has brought it up what about all the other things >> we have on our boats that potentially dangerous. Like the gas tank for the >> dinghy, the propane for the stove, the odd can of mineral spirits or the >> admirals hairspray? We are surrounded by everyday things that could go >> boom! Every boat needs a blower that is properly installed and used! >> James >> Delaney >> C&C 38 Mk11 >> Oriental, NC >> >> *From:* Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List >> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 29, 2015 2:11 PM >> *To:* mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com >> *Cc:* Della Barba, Joe >> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOWFUEL >> CHARACTERISTICS >> >> >> The typical diesel fire scenario is a high pressure fuel leak spraying on >> a red hot exhaust or turbo component. >> >> >> >> Joe >> >> Coquina >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *dwight >> veinot via CnC-List >> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 29, 2015 1:12 PM >> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com >> *Cc:* dwight veinot >> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOW FUEL >> CHARACTERISTICS >> >> >> >> Rick >> >> Nothing about that sounds like a geek to me, just some very good >> information based on sound knowledge, especially this part: >> >> Lots of smell – which may make a blower to ventilate the engine spaces >> very desirable >> >> >> Dwight Veinot >> >> C&C 35 MKII, *Alianna* >> >> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS >> >> d.ve...@bellaliant.net >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List < >> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: >> >> The geek in me just has to jump in here with some technical information. >> So here goes: >> >> >> >> Yes, Rick, vaporized diesel will blow up like vaporized gasoline. >> >> >> >> And Yes, Patrick, diesel does not vaporize easily. And is a lot less >> likely to support a flame than Gasoline as well. >> >> >> >> The flash point (lowest temperature at which a liquid starts to >> evaporate) of Gasoline is -45 to -50 degrees F (-60 C, I think). The flash >> point of #2 diesel is 126 F (52 C). Biodiesel, BTW, is about 225 F so if >> you use B10 or B15 in your boat the flash point of the fuel would be higher. >> >> >> >> The ignition concentration of a fuel vapor is the percent of fuel vs air >> that will support ignition. Too low a concentration or too high a >> concentration and you get no fire. That is why (if you are very lucky and >> not too bright, you can throw a lit match into a bowl of gasoline and >> nothing happens. For gasoline the range is 1.4% to 7.6%. Diesel is pretty >> similar at 0.6% to 7.5%. >> >> >> >> The ignition point (temperature at which it will start burning) of gas >> and diesel are also very similar. Gas is 475 F, and diesel is 494 F. >> >> >> >> But gasoline is
Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOWFUEL CHARACTERISTICS
My Avon 340 RIB has never even got close to flipping in the Chesapeake. I would have to get some other kind of dinghy if I went someplace I could not tow it, no way the 15 HP engine is coming off except once a year for a fresh water flush. Joe Coquina -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of ahycrace--- via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 4:19 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: ahycr...@cox.net Subject: Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOWFUEL CHARACTERISTICS We had the dink flip over in buzzards bay and we were lucky to get most of the contents back so now (for the last 20 yrs) we never keep anything in it when we are underway. Gary Kolc "Liberty" "Della Barba wrote: > +1 > Dinghy gas is in the dinghy. > I once got to listen to speech about how dangerous my Atomic 4 was from the > skipper of a Cabo Rico with diesel power. He then proceeded to dig a Clorox > bottle full of gasoline out of the engine room to fuel his dinghy! > Joe > Coquina > > > ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOWFUEL CHARACTERISTICS
We had the dink flip over in buzzards bay and we were lucky to get most of the contents back so now (for the last 20 yrs) we never keep anything in it when we are underway. Gary Kolc "Liberty" "Della Barba wrote: > +1 > Dinghy gas is in the dinghy. > I once got to listen to speech about how dangerous my Atomic 4 was from the > skipper of a Cabo Rico with diesel power. He then proceeded to dig a Clorox > bottle full of gasoline out of the engine room to fuel his dinghy! > Joe > Coquina > > > ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOWFUEL CHARACTERISTICS
I have a six gallon gas tank that has a groove across the bottom. That makes it a great fit for tying to the pushpit with the lower rail in that groove. Tim On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 10:20 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > +1 > > Dinghy gas is in the dinghy. > > I once got to listen to speech about how dangerous my Atomic 4 was from > the skipper of a Cabo Rico with diesel power. He then proceeded to dig a > Clorox bottle full of gasoline out of the engine room to fuel his dinghy! > > Joe > > Coquina > > > > ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOWFUEL CHARACTERISTICS
+1 Dinghy gas is in the dinghy. I once got to listen to speech about how dangerous my Atomic 4 was from the skipper of a Cabo Rico with diesel power. He then proceeded to dig a Clorox bottle full of gasoline out of the engine room to fuel his dinghy! Joe Coquina From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 10:16 AM To: CNC CNC Cc: David Subject: Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOWFUEL CHARACTERISTICS Folks keep dinghy gas aboard the Mother-Ship? We keep ours well secured in the dinghy. Eliminates a lot of worry and smell and mess and...and David F. Risch 1981 40-2 (401) 419-4650 (cell) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 17:09:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOWFUEL CHARACTERISTICS From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> CC: jtsai...@gmail.com<mailto:jtsai...@gmail.com> since no one else has brought it up what about all the other things we have on our boats that potentially dangerous. Like the gas tank for the dinghy, the propane for the stove, the odd can of mineral spirits or the admirals hairspray? We are surrounded by everyday things that could go boom! Every boat needs a blower that is properly installed and used! James Delaney C&C 38 Mk11 Oriental, NC From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 2:11 PM To: mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Della Barba, Joe<mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov> Subject: Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOWFUEL CHARACTERISTICS The typical diesel fire scenario is a high pressure fuel leak spraying on a red hot exhaust or turbo component. Joe Coquina From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight veinot via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 1:12 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: dwight veinot Subject: Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOW FUEL CHARACTERISTICS Rick Nothing about that sounds like a geek to me, just some very good information based on sound knowledge, especially this part: Lots of smell - which may make a blower to ventilate the engine spaces very desirable Dwight Veinot C&C 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net<mailto:d.ve...@bellaliant.net> On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: The geek in me just has to jump in here with some technical information. So here goes: Yes, Rick, vaporized diesel will blow up like vaporized gasoline. And Yes, Patrick, diesel does not vaporize easily. And is a lot less likely to support a flame than Gasoline as well. The flash point (lowest temperature at which a liquid starts to evaporate) of Gasoline is -45 to -50 degrees F (-60 C, I think). The flash point of #2 diesel is 126 F (52 C). Biodiesel, BTW, is about 225 F so if you use B10 or B15 in your boat the flash point of the fuel would be higher. The ignition concentration of a fuel vapor is the percent of fuel vs air that will support ignition. Too low a concentration or too high a concentration and you get no fire. That is why (if you are very lucky and not too bright, you can throw a lit match into a bowl of gasoline and nothing happens. For gasoline the range is 1.4% to 7.6%. Diesel is pretty similar at 0.6% to 7.5%. The ignition point (temperature at which it will start burning) of gas and diesel are also very similar. Gas is 475 F, and diesel is 494 F. But gasoline is much more volatile, and at much lower temperatures. So you are likely to find gasoline vapor vs. diesel vapor. Any fuel leak at above -45 F will result in gasoline vapor. A diesel leak will just make a puddle unless the temperature is above 126 F. Yes, it would be a smelly puddle, but your nose can sense vapor concentrations far below the concentration that would support ignition. Since the density of the gasoline vapor is about 2.0 (air is by definition 1.0) at standard temperature and pressure (70 F and sea level), the combustible vapor sinks to the bottom of your bilge. Diesel vapor would do the same thing, except a measurable concentration of diesel vapor could not exist at STP. Even high pressure diesel forced out of a pinhole leak in one of your injector lines is more likely to result in a smelly mist (too high a concentration to support ignition) than in a combustible fuel vapor. The flash point indicates when a liquid starts to evaporate. But there is another specification called the fire point that is probably a better illustration of the relative risk from gasoline vs. diesel. The fire point is the temperature at which a liquid fuel will generate a vapor concentration high enough to support a flame for 5 second
Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOWFUEL CHARACTERISTICS
Folks keep dinghy gas aboard the Mother-Ship? We keep ours well secured in the dinghy. Eliminates a lot of worry and smell and mess and...and David F. Risch 1981 40-2 (401) 419-4650 (cell) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 17:09:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOWFUEL CHARACTERISTICS From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com CC: jtsai...@gmail.com since no one else has brought it up what about all the other things we have on our boats that potentially dangerous. Like the gas tank for the dinghy, the propane for the stove, the odd can of mineral spirits or the admirals hairspray? We are surrounded by everyday things that could go boom! Every boat needs a blower that is properly installed and used! James Delaney C&C 38 Mk11 Oriental, NC From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 2:11 PM To: mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Della Barba, Joe Subject: Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOWFUEL CHARACTERISTICS The typical diesel fire scenario is a high pressure fuel leak spraying on a red hot exhaust or turbo component. Joe Coquina From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight veinot via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 1:12 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: dwight veinot Subject: Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOW FUEL CHARACTERISTICS Rick Nothing about that sounds like a geek to me, just some very good information based on sound knowledge, especially this part: Lots of smell – which may make a blower to ventilate the engine spaces very desirable Dwight Veinot C&C 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List wrote: The geek in me just has to jump in here with some technical information. So here goes: Yes, Rick, vaporized diesel will blow up like vaporized gasoline. And Yes, Patrick, diesel does not vaporize easily. And is a lot less likely to support a flame than Gasoline as well. The flash point (lowest temperature at which a liquid starts to evaporate) of Gasoline is -45 to -50 degrees F (-60 C, I think). The flash point of #2 diesel is 126 F (52 C). Biodiesel, BTW, is about 225 F so if you use B10 or B15 in your boat the flash point of the fuel would be higher. The ignition concentration of a fuel vapor is the percent of fuel vs air that will support ignition. Too low a concentration or too high a concentration and you get no fire. That is why (if you are very lucky and not too bright, you can throw a lit match into a bowl of gasoline and nothing happens. For gasoline the range is 1.4% to 7.6%. Diesel is pretty similar at 0.6% to 7.5%. The ignition point (temperature at which it will start burning) of gas and diesel are also very similar. Gas is 475 F, and diesel is 494 F. But gasoline is much more volatile, and at much lower temperatures. So you are likely to find gasoline vapor vs. diesel vapor. Any fuel leak at above -45 F will result in gasoline vapor. A diesel leak will just make a puddle unless the temperature is above 126 F. Yes, it would be a smelly puddle, but your nose can sense vapor concentrations far below the concentration that would support ignition. Since the density of the gasoline vapor is about 2.0 (air is by definition 1.0) at standard temperature and pressure (70 F and sea level), the combustible vapor sinks to the bottom of your bilge. Diesel vapor would do the same thing, except a measurable concentration of diesel vapor could not exist at STP. Even high pressure diesel forced out of a pinhole leak in one of your injector lines is more likely to result in a smelly mist (too high a concentration to support ignition) than in a combustible fuel vapor. The flash point indicates when a liquid starts to evaporate. But there is another specification called the fire point that is probably a better illustration of the relative risk from gasoline vs. diesel. The fire point is the temperature at which a liquid fuel will generate a vapor concentration high enough to support a flame for 5 seconds – which is enough time to cause significant evaporation of the liquid and start a real fire (as opposed to a momentary flash). Liquid gasoline has a fire point of 30 F (-1 C), while liquid diesel is 154 F (68 C). So unless you are boating in some really ridiculous heat, you are unlikely to get a fire from diesel fuel. Lots of smell – which may make a blower to ventilate the engine spaces very desirable – but a fire is not a high probablility event. Rick Brass Washington, NC From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Davin via CnC-List Sent: Monday, December 28, 2015 10:43 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Patrick Davin Subject: Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki Di
Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOWFUEL CHARACTERISTICS
Well, it is a combination. A good example here: The C&C 25 has an aft compartment under the tiller, where the gas tank sits. It is practically on the cockpit, and any fumes just drain out from a little drain hole. Now some industrious owners (like a previous owner of "Tabasco") decided to open up that area and have more space in the cockpit. Which is wonderful, but now, the fule tank is in a lazarette locker, hence any fumes or fuel leaks from an expansion, will leak into the bilge. So I am paranoid, and open up and smell the lazarettes every time. When I get a chance, I will rebuild a new fuel tank compartment in the aft section of the cockpit. So dinghy fuel tanks, propane or what not are very safe as long as there is room for the accidentally escaped gas to get away from the inside of the boat. I once had a bad junction in my propane tank. 10 lbs of propane leaked within a day out thtough the went hole into the the ocean/air, and nobody was ever in danger. Ahmet S/V Waterdancer Irwin 43 CC Tabasco (C&C 25) *(just for kicks .. previous boats:)Tapalonong 1995 Whaler Dountless 13 * *S/V Nomad 1984 Catalina 36S/V Harmony 1972 Bristol 26Second Wind 1987 Sea Ray 30 Sundancer* *Kismet 2002 MacGregor 26X* On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 5:09 PM, jtsails via CnC-List wrote: > since no one else has brought it up what about all the other things we > have on our boats that potentially dangerous. Like the gas tank for the > dinghy, the propane for the stove, the odd can of mineral spirits or the > admirals hairspray? We are surrounded by everyday things that could go > boom! Every boat needs a blower that is properly installed and used! > James > Delaney > C&C 38 Mk11 > Oriental, NC > > *From:* Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 29, 2015 2:11 PM > *To:* mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > *Cc:* Della Barba, Joe > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOWFUEL > CHARACTERISTICS > > > The typical diesel fire scenario is a high pressure fuel leak spraying on > a red hot exhaust or turbo component. > > > > Joe > > Coquina > > > > > > *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *dwight > veinot via CnC-List > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 29, 2015 1:12 PM > *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com > *Cc:* dwight veinot > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOW FUEL > CHARACTERISTICS > > > > Rick > > Nothing about that sounds like a geek to me, just some very good > information based on sound knowledge, especially this part: > > Lots of smell – which may make a blower to ventilate the engine spaces > very desirable > > > Dwight Veinot > > C&C 35 MKII, *Alianna* > > Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS > > d.ve...@bellaliant.net > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > > The geek in me just has to jump in here with some technical information. > So here goes: > > > > Yes, Rick, vaporized diesel will blow up like vaporized gasoline. > > > > And Yes, Patrick, diesel does not vaporize easily. And is a lot less > likely to support a flame than Gasoline as well. > > > > The flash point (lowest temperature at which a liquid starts to evaporate) > of Gasoline is -45 to -50 degrees F (-60 C, I think). The flash point of #2 > diesel is 126 F (52 C). Biodiesel, BTW, is about 225 F so if you use B10 or > B15 in your boat the flash point of the fuel would be higher. > > > > The ignition concentration of a fuel vapor is the percent of fuel vs air > that will support ignition. Too low a concentration or too high a > concentration and you get no fire. That is why (if you are very lucky and > not too bright, you can throw a lit match into a bowl of gasoline and > nothing happens. For gasoline the range is 1.4% to 7.6%. Diesel is pretty > similar at 0.6% to 7.5%. > > > > The ignition point (temperature at which it will start burning) of gas and > diesel are also very similar. Gas is 475 F, and diesel is 494 F. > > > > But gasoline is much more volatile, and at much lower temperatures. So you > are likely to find gasoline vapor vs. diesel vapor. Any fuel leak at above > -45 F will result in gasoline vapor. A diesel leak will just make a puddle > unless the temperature is above 126 F. Yes, it would be a smelly puddle, > but your nose can sense vapor concentrations far below the concentration > that would support ignition. > > > > Since the density of the gasoline vapor is about 2.0 (air is by definition > 1.0) at standard temperature and pressure (70 F and sea level), the > combustible vapor sinks to the bottom of your bilge. Diesel va
Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOWFUEL CHARACTERISTICS
since no one else has brought it up what about all the other things we have on our boats that potentially dangerous. Like the gas tank for the dinghy, the propane for the stove, the odd can of mineral spirits or the admirals hairspray? We are surrounded by everyday things that could go boom! Every boat needs a blower that is properly installed and used! James Delaney C&C 38 Mk11 Oriental, NC From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 2:11 PM To: mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Della Barba, Joe Subject: Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOWFUEL CHARACTERISTICS The typical diesel fire scenario is a high pressure fuel leak spraying on a red hot exhaust or turbo component. Joe Coquina From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight veinot via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 1:12 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: dwight veinot Subject: Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOW FUEL CHARACTERISTICS Rick Nothing about that sounds like a geek to me, just some very good information based on sound knowledge, especially this part: Lots of smell – which may make a blower to ventilate the engine spaces very desirable Dwight Veinot C&C 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List wrote: The geek in me just has to jump in here with some technical information. So here goes: Yes, Rick, vaporized diesel will blow up like vaporized gasoline. And Yes, Patrick, diesel does not vaporize easily. And is a lot less likely to support a flame than Gasoline as well. The flash point (lowest temperature at which a liquid starts to evaporate) of Gasoline is -45 to -50 degrees F (-60 C, I think). The flash point of #2 diesel is 126 F (52 C). Biodiesel, BTW, is about 225 F so if you use B10 or B15 in your boat the flash point of the fuel would be higher. The ignition concentration of a fuel vapor is the percent of fuel vs air that will support ignition. Too low a concentration or too high a concentration and you get no fire. That is why (if you are very lucky and not too bright, you can throw a lit match into a bowl of gasoline and nothing happens. For gasoline the range is 1.4% to 7.6%. Diesel is pretty similar at 0.6% to 7.5%. The ignition point (temperature at which it will start burning) of gas and diesel are also very similar. Gas is 475 F, and diesel is 494 F. But gasoline is much more volatile, and at much lower temperatures. So you are likely to find gasoline vapor vs. diesel vapor. Any fuel leak at above -45 F will result in gasoline vapor. A diesel leak will just make a puddle unless the temperature is above 126 F. Yes, it would be a smelly puddle, but your nose can sense vapor concentrations far below the concentration that would support ignition. Since the density of the gasoline vapor is about 2.0 (air is by definition 1.0) at standard temperature and pressure (70 F and sea level), the combustible vapor sinks to the bottom of your bilge. Diesel vapor would do the same thing, except a measurable concentration of diesel vapor could not exist at STP. Even high pressure diesel forced out of a pinhole leak in one of your injector lines is more likely to result in a smelly mist (too high a concentration to support ignition) than in a combustible fuel vapor. The flash point indicates when a liquid starts to evaporate. But there is another specification called the fire point that is probably a better illustration of the relative risk from gasoline vs. diesel. The fire point is the temperature at which a liquid fuel will generate a vapor concentration high enough to support a flame for 5 seconds – which is enough time to cause significant evaporation of the liquid and start a real fire (as opposed to a momentary flash). Liquid gasoline has a fire point of 30 F (-1 C), while liquid diesel is 154 F (68 C). So unless you are boating in some really ridiculous heat, you are unlikely to get a fire from diesel fuel. Lots of smell – which may make a blower to ventilate the engine spaces very desirable – but a fire is not a high probablility event. Rick Brass Washington, NC From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Davin via CnC-List Sent: Monday, December 28, 2015 10:43 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Patrick Davin Subject: Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki Diesel doesn't vaporize easily, unlike gasoline. That's one of its big advantages on boats, that it's non-volatile. It's good practice to shut down the engine at the fuel dock anyway, but they're probably asking that more as a general policy due to the gasoline boats they fill (or in case some gasoline vapors wafted over to your boat). The flash point (vaporiza
