Re: Stus-List Questions from potential buyer
Burt, As the other response stated, there should be a HIN on the transom. My 1976 38 doesn't have one there, I don't know if it was never there or was faired over during a topside repaint. I do have a small C&C plaque in the cockpit that has "380100" on it and that is the number on all the paperwork for the boat even though it is not in the proper format for a HIN. I have also found this number in various hidden places in the interior. James S/V Delaney Oriental, NC 1976 C&C 38 -Original Message- From: Burt Stratton via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 9:05 AM To: blhick...@yahoo.com ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Questions from potential buyer I have been impressed with the way my 1974 33 3/4 tonner is made. Other than the likely-hood for moisture in the balsa core of the cabin roof and the cockpit sole (not the fault of the manufacturer) the boat looks to be solid as a rock and sails nice and stiff. I do wish I had the 33-1 layout, though. The modifications they made for the 3/4 ton model make the living on board pretty sparse. I keep seeing folks on this list giving hull numbers. I cannot for the life of me find mine. Now my boat was likely made in the custom shop. It has an extended keel (about 12 inches) but the hull and sail plan is identical to the 33-1. The only plaque is on the aft wall of the cockpit and there is no hull number on it. Is it possible there is no hull number? -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Barbara Hickson Fellers via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 7:11 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Questions from potential buyer If the size is a good fit, the 33-1 is the best boat C&C ever made and one of the best boats you could ever buy. Just sayin'. Good luck with your purchase. Barbara H. Fellers "Flight Risk" '76 C&C 33-1 #151 Charleston, SC ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album. Please donate to the C&C Photo Album to keep this list free for all subscribers. Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album. Please donate to the C&C Photo Album to keep this list free for all subscribers. Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album. Please donate to the C&C Photo Album to keep this list free for all subscribers. Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Questions from potential buyer
How would you have registered a boat without the HIN? All boats manufactured in the US and Canada have the HIN in the upper starboard of the transom since 1972. Bill Bina On 1/14/2015 9:05 AM, Burt Stratton via CnC-List wrote: I have been impressed with the way my 1974 33 3/4 tonner is made. Other than the likely-hood for moisture in the balsa core of the cabin roof and the cockpit sole (not the fault of the manufacturer) the boat looks to be solid as a rock and sails nice and stiff. I do wish I had the 33-1 layout, though. The modifications they made for the 3/4 ton model make the living on board pretty sparse. I keep seeing folks on this list giving hull numbers. I cannot for the life of me find mine. Now my boat was likely made in the custom shop. It has an extended keel (about 12 inches) but the hull and sail plan is identical to the 33-1. The only plaque is on the aft wall of the cockpit and there is no hull number on it. Is it possible there is no hull number? ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album. Please donate to the C&C Photo Album to keep this list free for all subscribers. Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Questions from potential buyer
I have been impressed with the way my 1974 33 3/4 tonner is made. Other than the likely-hood for moisture in the balsa core of the cabin roof and the cockpit sole (not the fault of the manufacturer) the boat looks to be solid as a rock and sails nice and stiff. I do wish I had the 33-1 layout, though. The modifications they made for the 3/4 ton model make the living on board pretty sparse. I keep seeing folks on this list giving hull numbers. I cannot for the life of me find mine. Now my boat was likely made in the custom shop. It has an extended keel (about 12 inches) but the hull and sail plan is identical to the 33-1. The only plaque is on the aft wall of the cockpit and there is no hull number on it. Is it possible there is no hull number? -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Barbara Hickson Fellers via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 7:11 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Questions from potential buyer If the size is a good fit, the 33-1 is the best boat C&C ever made and one of the best boats you could ever buy. Just sayin'. Good luck with your purchase. Barbara H. Fellers "Flight Risk" '76 C&C 33-1 #151 Charleston, SC > ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album. Please donate to the C&C Photo Album to keep this list free for all subscribers. Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album. Please donate to the C&C Photo Album to keep this list free for all subscribers. Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Questions from potential buyer
Elevated moisture readings from a moisture meter are not always indicative of moisture. Further investigation is required. A surveyor would know how to do this. And YES I would whole heartedly agree with the surveyor - a new boat may be dry but the old boat is solid. Our 1987 J27 had a cored hull while the C&C 33-1 does not. With a balsa cored hull moisture readings are a concern. On our Spring 2013 survey an area forward and to port of keel approx. 1 ft wide by 2 ft long was identified as showing elevated moisture levels. Last year in Spring of 2014 I decided to replace the core in that area from the inside. So I removed the head, the sole under the head and other components to get at the hull. Then I cut out an initial 4 x 4 inch section in the middle of this area which my moisture meter also indicated as high. The balsa was bone dry. Next I drilled from inside 10 1/2 inch pilot holes all over this area to check the core. In all cases was bone dry. When I contacted my surveyor the next day we determined that the excessive coats of interprotect 2000E in the areas near the keel stub could be the culprit for the false reading. I had put one coat on Interprotect on entire hull but the pebbly surface texture bothered me so much that that w as all I put on except around the keel stub extending out a foot or so where I put on 6 coats. If you like the boat then do a bit more examination and if good buy it. I would be more concerned about the condition of the engine in a 33-1 than I would the solid glass hull. Mike Persistence Frers 33 #16 -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Barbara Hickson Fellers via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 8:11 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Questions from potential buyer If the size is a good fit, the 33-1 is the best boat C&C ever made and one of the best boats you could ever buy. Just sayin'. Good luck with your purchase. Barbara H. Fellers "Flight Risk" '76 C&C 33-1 #151 Charleston, SC > ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album. Please donate to the C&C Photo Album to keep this list free for all subscribers. Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album. Please donate to the C&C Photo Album to keep this list free for all subscribers. Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List Questions from potential buyer
If the size is a good fit, the 33-1 is the best boat C&C ever made and one of the best boats you could ever buy. Just sayin'. Good luck with your purchase. Barbara H. Fellers "Flight Risk" '76 C&C 33-1 #151 Charleston, SC > ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album. Please donate to the C&C Photo Album to keep this list free for all subscribers. Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List questions from potential buyer
Martin, The 43 looks so much like a scaled up Viking 33. That is a truly beautiful boat! There is one for sale in Toronto. I would love to own one of those. The admiral can't bare the the thought of another rehab or another 70s boat. I don't think I have another rehab in me either... Love to see some pictures of calypso! Danny From my Android phone Original message From: Martin DeYoung via CnC-List Date: 01/14/2015 12:08 AM (GMT-05:00) To: andrew rothweiler ,cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List questions from potential buyer I agree with Andy's response. The tapping around areas of concern will give strong indication of issues if any with the laminate and / or core. We are 1.5 years into a deck restoration on Calypso (hull #1 of the 43's launched in January 1970 from Bruckmann's custom yard). We have explored all sorts of water intrusion issues with tapping, drilling holes, grinding out layers, and long ago a moisture meter. The moisture meter had a low correlation to water issues, especially in locating an exact spot of excess moisture. Tapping seems to be very accurate. I have heard of moisture meters reading excess moisture in the bottom paint more than moisture in the laminate. Tapping around hull stress points (keel stub and prop strut), hull penetrations (thru hulls etc.), and a close examination of the inside keel bolt areas and mast step area may be able to confirm the condition of the boat's structure. If the deck is cored, have the surveyor tap around the hardware and rigging deck penetrations. We found most of Calypso's failed balsa core under halyard blocks and around the mast collar. To be fair, this 43 has been raced hard every year of its life on both coasts and the Great Lakes. As a race boat most of the deck hardware had been moved several times and much maintenance was deferred. Fortunately repair of balsa cored decks is straight forward with basic epoxy skills but it is a little messy. If the boat has been well maintained, was not sunk or stored with lots of water inside and is a fresh water boat, the moisture meter reading should not be your defining issue. I expect a well maintained C&C 33 hull will outlast your ownership long enough to be another sailor's first C&C. Martin Calypso 1971 C&C 43 Seattle From: CnC-List [cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] on behalf of andrew rothweiler via CnC-List [cnc-list@cnc-list.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 6:35 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List questions from potential buyer Hello all, I've found a mid 70s C&C 33-1 that I'm interested in buying. One thing the survey indicated was elevated moisture levels, into the yellow on the meter, in the bottom. The owner had the bottom epoxy barrier coated about 8 years ago, and the bottom paint was new last year. There were no blisters present at the survey, and the owner has said there have never been any- he has owned the boat for 30+ years. The boat has been on the Great Lakes from new, and based on the condition of the boat, especially compared to all the boats I have looked at, I would say the boat has had an attentive, conscientious owner. My question is whether elevated moisture in several areas of the bottom of a solid fiberglass hull should be a deal breaker or a matter of concern. The surveyor told me that he would not be concerned, and that if I was I should buy a new boat (hah! not happening). Do you agree with the surveyor's lack of concern about some level of moisture in the bottom of a solid glass hull of a 40 year old boat? Many thanks in advance for advice. My search for a boat has lasted a couple of years now, has included a big learning curve, and has focused on C&Cs, in large part because of the valuable information and assistance available on this site from the members. Thanks again.___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album. Please donate to the C&C Photo Album to keep this list free for all subscribers. Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List questions from potential buyer
I agree with Andy's response. The tapping around areas of concern will give strong indication of issues if any with the laminate and / or core. We are 1.5 years into a deck restoration on Calypso (hull #1 of the 43's launched in January 1970 from Bruckmann's custom yard). We have explored all sorts of water intrusion issues with tapping, drilling holes, grinding out layers, and long ago a moisture meter. The moisture meter had a low correlation to water issues, especially in locating an exact spot of excess moisture. Tapping seems to be very accurate. I have heard of moisture meters reading excess moisture in the bottom paint more than moisture in the laminate. Tapping around hull stress points (keel stub and prop strut), hull penetrations (thru hulls etc.), and a close examination of the inside keel bolt areas and mast step area may be able to confirm the condition of the boat's structure. If the deck is cored, have the surveyor tap around the hardware and rigging deck penetrations. We found most of Calypso's failed balsa core under halyard blocks and around the mast collar. To be fair, this 43 has been raced hard every year of its life on both coasts and the Great Lakes. As a race boat most of the deck hardware had been moved several times and much maintenance was deferred. Fortunately repair of balsa cored decks is straight forward with basic epoxy skills but it is a little messy. If the boat has been well maintained, was not sunk or stored with lots of water inside and is a fresh water boat, the moisture meter reading should not be your defining issue. I expect a well maintained C&C 33 hull will outlast your ownership long enough to be another sailor's first C&C. Martin Calypso 1971 C&C 43 Seattle From: CnC-List [cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] on behalf of andrew rothweiler via CnC-List [cnc-list@cnc-list.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 6:35 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List questions from potential buyer Hello all, I've found a mid 70s C&C 33-1 that I'm interested in buying. One thing the survey indicated was elevated moisture levels, into the yellow on the meter, in the bottom. The owner had the bottom epoxy barrier coated about 8 years ago, and the bottom paint was new last year. There were no blisters present at the survey, and the owner has said there have never been any- he has owned the boat for 30+ years. The boat has been on the Great Lakes from new, and based on the condition of the boat, especially compared to all the boats I have looked at, I would say the boat has had an attentive, conscientious owner. My question is whether elevated moisture in several areas of the bottom of a solid fiberglass hull should be a deal breaker or a matter of concern. The surveyor told me that he would not be concerned, and that if I was I should buy a new boat (hah! not happening). Do you agree with the surveyor's lack of concern about some level of moisture in the bottom of a solid glass hull of a 40 year old boat? Many thanks in advance for advice. My search for a boat has lasted a couple of years now, has included a big learning curve, and has focused on C&Cs, in large part because of the valuable information and assistance available on this site from the members. Thanks again. ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album. Please donate to the C&C Photo Album to keep this list free for all subscribers. Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List questions from potential buyer
He should have tapped the hull, too, which would tell him if there is any delamination. High readings could be caused by condensation inside the boat. Bottom line is that I would tend to trust him. Get a second opinion, if you're not confident. Great boat! Good luck with your purchase. Andy C&C 40 Peregrine Andrew Burton 61 W Narragansett Newport, RI USA02840 http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ +401 965-5260 > On Jan 13, 2015, at 21:35, andrew rothweiler via CnC-List > wrote: > > Hello all, > I've found a mid 70s C&C 33-1 that I'm interested in buying. One thing the > survey indicated was elevated moisture levels, into the yellow on the meter, > in the bottom. The owner had the bottom epoxy barrier coated about 8 years > ago, and the bottom paint was new last year. There were no blisters present > at the survey, and the owner has said there have never been any- he has owned > the boat for 30+ years. The boat has been on the Great Lakes from new, and > based on the condition of the boat, especially compared to all the boats I > have looked at, I would say the boat has had an attentive, conscientious > owner. > > My question is whether elevated moisture in several areas of the bottom of a > solid fiberglass hull should be a deal breaker or a matter of concern. > The surveyor told me that he would not be concerned, and that if I was I > should buy a new boat (hah! not happening). > Do you agree with the surveyor's lack of concern about some level of moisture > in the bottom of a solid glass hull of a 40 year old boat? > > Many thanks in advance for advice. My search for a boat has lasted a couple > of years now, has included a big learning curve, and has focused on C&Cs, in > large part because of the valuable information and assistance available on > this site from the members. Thanks again. > ___ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album. > > Please donate to the C&C Photo Album to keep this list free for all > subscribers. > > Email address: > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page > at: > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com > ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album. Please donate to the C&C Photo Album to keep this list free for all subscribers. Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List questions from potential buyer
Hello all, I've found a mid 70s C&C 33-1 that I'm interested in buying. One thing the survey indicated was elevated moisture levels, into the yellow on the meter, in the bottom. The owner had the bottom epoxy barrier coated about 8 years ago, and the bottom paint was new last year. There were no blisters present at the survey, and the owner has said there have never been any- he has owned the boat for 30+ years. The boat has been on the Great Lakes from new, and based on the condition of the boat, especially compared to all the boats I have looked at, I would say the boat has had an attentive, conscientious owner. My question is whether elevated moisture in several areas of the bottom of a solid fiberglass hull should be a deal breaker or a matter of concern. The surveyor told me that he would not be concerned, and that if I was I should buy a new boat (hah! not happening). Do you agree with the surveyor's lack of concern about some level of moisture in the bottom of a solid glass hull of a 40 year old boat? Many thanks in advance for advice. My search for a boat has lasted a couple of years now, has included a big learning curve, and has focused on C&Cs, in large part because of the valuable information and assistance available on this site from the members. Thanks again.___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album. Please donate to the C&C Photo Album to keep this list free for all subscribers. Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
