Stus-List Re: Bringing lines back to Cockpit.

[John McCrea via CnC-List]

thanks all! Lot to think through, measure more then twice and drill once!

 

From: Dennis C. via CnC-List  
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2023 9:22 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Dennis C. 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Bringing lines back to Cockpit.

 

John,

 

As others have said, juxtaposition of the clutches and winches is critical.  I 
have triple clutches ahead of Barient 22 winches.  I aligned the starboard side 
of the winch drum with the center clutch.  You can probe around in this folder 
for pics of the organizers, etc:

 

<https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B_sb5TfIENvsNll4b3ZwM1B4a28?resourcekey=0-3peSuFJ-nDmRY4vWPFSoFA
 
<https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B_sb5TfIENvsNll4b3ZwM1B4a28?resourcekey=0-3peSuFJ-nDmRY4vWPFSoFA&usp=share_link>
 &usp=share_link>

 

The pictures are not in any order.

 

I think my deck organizers are Schaefers.  Like another lister said, I bisected 
the turning angle of the halyards.

 

My mast base turning blocks are Garhauer HM-1A Half Moon Blocks attached to the 
mast.

 

My rope clutches are Lewmars.  I wouldn't use any other clutches.  They're easy 
on the line covers and release under load.

 

--

Dennis C.

Touche' 35-1 #83

Mandeville, LA

 

On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 12:53 PM John McCrea via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Hello. In the process of moving all my lines from the mast back to the cockpit 
and wanted to see what others have done. All old winches and deck gear is off. 
Also, I am going to replace my jib halyards (main, spin and topping lift were 
already back to the cockpit on old blocks etc) if anyone has an any 
measurements for the 36-1 halyards to the cockpit please let me know.

 

For the new deck hardware.

 

I am thinking about using the following:

 

Deck Organizer 40-DO-QB | Garhauer (garhauermarine.com) 
<https://www.garhauermarine.com/shop/deck-blocks-hardware-mast-boom-blocks-hardware/deck-organizers/deck-organizer-40-do-qb/>
  

 

Spinlock Mid-Size Boat Deck Organizer | Defender 
<https://defender.com/en_us/spinlock-mid-size-boat-deck-organizer> 

 

Still looking at clutches, want quads and Spinlock/Lewmar/Garhauer have them.

 

Bought two used Lewmar 30 ST for each clutch. 

 

I am thinking I need to get both the deck organizers up near the mast where the 
winches used to be and the clutch organizers to make sure that the lines are 
not hitting up against the traveler base. 

 

Thanks!

 

John McCrea

Talisman

1979 36-1

Mystic, CT 

 

 

 




 

 

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Bringing lines back to Cockpit.

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

John,

As others have said, juxtaposition of the clutches and winches is
critical.  I have triple clutches ahead of Barient 22 winches.  I aligned
the starboard side of the winch drum with the center clutch.  You can probe
around in this folder for pics of the organizers, etc:

<
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B_sb5TfIENvsNll4b3ZwM1B4a28?resourcekey=0-3peSuFJ-nDmRY4vWPFSoFA&usp=share_link
>

The pictures are not in any order.

I think my deck organizers are Schaefers.  Like another lister said, I
bisected the turning angle of the halyards.

My mast base turning blocks are Garhauer HM-1A Half Moon Blocks attached to
the mast.

My rope clutches are Lewmars.  I wouldn't use any other clutches.  They're
easy on the line covers and release under load.

--
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 12:53 PM John McCrea via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hello. In the process of moving all my lines from the mast back to the
> cockpit and wanted to see what others have done. All old winches and deck
> gear is off. Also, I am going to replace my jib halyards (main, spin and
> topping lift were already back to the cockpit on old blocks etc) if anyone
> has an any measurements for the 36-1 halyards to the cockpit please let me
> know.
>
>
>
> For the new deck hardware.
>
>
>
> I am thinking about using the following:
>
>
>
> Deck Organizer 40-DO-QB | Garhauer (garhauermarine.com)
> 
>
>
>
> Spinlock Mid-Size Boat Deck Organizer | Defender
> 
>
>
>
> Still looking at clutches, want quads and Spinlock/Lewmar/Garhauer have
> them.
>
>
>
> Bought two used Lewmar 30 ST for each clutch.
>
>
>
> I am thinking I need to get both the deck organizers up near the mast
> where the winches used to be and the clutch organizers to make sure that
> the lines are not hitting up against the traveler base.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> John McCrea
>
> Talisman
>
> 1979 36-1
>
> Mystic, CT
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Bringing lines back to Cockpit.

[Dave S via CnC-List]

One other thing - on my new boat (a cutter with two furlers) the headsail 
halyards have clutches on the  mast and share a mast-mounted self tailing 
winch.   This makes sense on that boat.  Our c&cs were built for racing 
headsail changes, and my 33-2 as an example, has the now only occasionally used 
furling Genoa halyard led aft.  
I frequently sail singlehanded.   When setting the asymmetrical spinnaker (in 
its sock) or changing headsails solo, it would actually be easier to have at 
least a belay point at the mast, possibly even the winch.  (I’ll leave that to 
you to think through fully)  This would free the cabin top of 3 halyards, 
reduce friction etc etc. 

Dave 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 30, 2023, at 7:55 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER  wrote:
> 
> 
> I've crewed on several boats where things were hard to operate due to the 
> friction caused by pour installation and zero maintenance.  Some tips I 
> remember:  layout the clutches so the heavily loaded lines line up with the 
> right side (looking forward) of the winch drum, so the winch has the highest 
> leverage and the line has the least friction.  The main halyard and genoa 
> halyard are the highest loads and it's easy to route one halyard to starboard 
> and the other to port so the highest loads are taken care of.   My Barient 
> winches (manuals on Stu's cncphotoalbum.com) are best oriented so the final 
> driving cog is mated to the outside drum where the line meets the drum. The 
> line then presses the drum against the gear and this helps mesh the gears 
> together in an efficient manor.  You may be able to position the winches 
> close to the companionway so the handles clear the dodger frame.  I used a 
> sheet of thin G-10 and some thickend epoxy to create a flat surface to mount 
> my winches on the curved cabintop.  West Systems has illustrations in their 
> manual which I think is free online.
> 
> Recommend you read the online installation tips from your clutch and winch 
> manufacturers as the distance between clutch and winch are crucial too.  It's 
> all about getting the best performance and longest life from your equipment.  
>  
> 
> Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C&C 34R, Annapolis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>> On 03/30/2023 3:49 PM Dave S via CnC-List  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Double check the orientation and total operating footprint consumed by the 
>>> line clutches before you proceed, especially if they will live under a 
>>> dodger.  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Mar 30, 2023, at 2:11 PM, Bob Mann via CnC-List  
>>> wrote: 
>>> 
>>> I did this on my 35-1 (called Mystic).  I used Garhauer too but this one: 
>>> Deck Organizer 30-DO-QBI | Garhauer (garhauermarine.com).  I chose a 
>>> location about even with the front of the mid-boat hatch and angled them so 
>>> the angle to mast was the same as the angle to the clutch.  Check coach 
>>> roof to make sure there's nothing in the way for where the bolts come 
>>> through the deck.  I ended up with one bolt half on a molded edge.  I have 
>>> the plastics caps for hiding the holes, if you want some.
>>> 
>>> Halyard length needs to be twice deck-to-masthead height + distance back to 
>>> cockpit + about 6 feet.
>>> 
>>> Bob 
 On 03/30/2023 1:52 PM John McCrea via CnC-List  
 wrote:
 
 
 Hello. In the process of moving all my lines from the mast back to the 
 cockpit and wanted to see what others have done. All old winches and deck 
 gear is off. Also, I am going to replace my jib halyards (main, spin and 
 topping lift were already back to the cockpit on old blocks etc) if anyone 
 has an any measurements for the 36-1 halyards to the cockpit please let me 
 know.
 
  
 
 For the new deck hardware.
 
  
 
 I am thinking about using the following:
 
  
 
 Deck Organizer 40-DO-QB | Garhauer (garhauermarine.com)
 
 
 
 Spinlock Mid-Size Boat Deck Organizer | Defender
 
 
 
 Still looking at clutches, want quads and Spinlock/Lewmar/Garhauer have 
 them.
 
  
 
 Bought two used Lewmar 30 ST for each clutch.
 
  
 
 I am thinking I need to get both the deck organizers up near the mast 
 where the winches used to be and the clutch organizers to make sure that 
 the lines are not hitting up against the traveler base.
 
  
 
 Thanks!
 
  
 
 John McCrea
 
 Talisman
 
 1979 36-1
 
 Mystic, CT
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
 Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and 
 help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: 
 https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
 Thanks for your help. 
 Stu
>>> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and 
>>> help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at: 
>>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
>>> Thanks for your help. 
>>> St

Stus-List Re: Bringing lines back to Cockpit.

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

I've crewed on several boats where things were hard to operate due to the 
friction caused by pour installation and zero maintenance.  Some tips I 
remember:  layout the clutches so the heavily loaded lines line up with the 
right side (looking forward) of the winch drum, so the winch has the highest 
leverage and the line has the least friction.  The main halyard and genoa 
halyard are the highest loads and it's easy to route one halyard to starboard 
and the other to port so the highest loads are taken care of.   My Barient 
winches (manuals on Stu's cncphotoalbum.com) are best oriented so the final 
driving cog is mated to the outside drum where the line meets the drum. The 
line then presses the drum against the gear and this helps mesh the gears 
together in an efficient manor.  You may be able to position the winches close 
to the companionway so the handles clear the dodger frame.  I used a sheet of 
thin G-10 and some thickend epoxy to create a flat surface to mount my winches 
on the cur
 ved cabintop.  West Systems has illustrations in their manual which I think is 
free online.

Recommend you read the online installation tips from your clutch and winch 
manufacturers as the distance between clutch and winch are crucial too.  It's 
all about getting the best performance and longest life from your equipment.   

Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C&C 34R, Annapolis






> On 03/30/2023 3:49 PM Dave S via CnC-List  wrote:
> 
> 
> Double check the orientation and total operating footprint consumed by 
> the line clutches before you proceed, especially if they will live under a 
> dodger.  
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
> > > On Mar 30, 2023, at 2:11 PM, Bob Mann via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > I did this on my 35-1 (called Mystic).  I used Garhauer 
> too but this one: Deck Organizer 30-DO-QBI | Garhauer (garhauermarine.com) 
> https://www.garhauermarine.com/shop/deck-blocks-hardware-mast-boom-blocks-hardware/deck-organizers/deck-organizer-30-do-qbi/
>  .  I chose a location about even with the front of the mid-boat hatch and 
> angled them so the angle to mast was the same as the angle to the clutch.  
> Check coach roof to make sure there's nothing in the way for where the bolts 
> come through the deck.  I ended up with one bolt half on a molded edge.  I 
> have the plastics caps for hiding the holes, if you want some.
> > 
> > Halyard length needs to be twice deck-to-masthead height + distance 
> > back to cockpit + about 6 feet.
> > 
> > Bob 
> > 
> > > > > On 03/30/2023 1:52 PM John McCrea via 
> > CnC-List  wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hello. In the process of moving all my lines from the mast 
> > > back to the cockpit and wanted to see what others have done. All old 
> > > winches and deck gear is off. Also, I am going to replace my jib halyards 
> > > (main, spin and topping lift were already back to the cockpit on old 
> > > blocks etc) if anyone has an any measurements for the 36-1 halyards to 
> > > the cockpit please let me know.
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > For the new deck hardware.
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > I am thinking about using the following:
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Deck Organizer 40-DO-QB | Garhauer (garhauermarine.com) 
> > > https://www.garhauermarine.com/shop/deck-blocks-hardware-mast-boom-blocks-hardware/deck-organizers/deck-organizer-40-do-qb/
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Spinlock Mid-Size Boat Deck Organizer | Defender 
> > > https://defender.com/en_us/spinlock-mid-size-boat-deck-organizer
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Still looking at clutches, want quads and 
> > > Spinlock/Lewmar/Garhauer have them.
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Bought two used Lewmar 30 ST for each clutch.
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > I am thinking I need to get both the deck organizers up near 
> > > the mast where the winches used to be and the clutch organizers to make 
> > > sure that the lines are not hitting up against the traveler base.
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Thanks!
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > John McCrea
> > > 
> > > Talisman
> > > 
> > > 1979 36-1
> > > 
> > > Mystic, CT
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > >
> > > 
> > >
> > > 
> > > Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo 
> > > Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at:
> > > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> > > Thanks for your help.
> > > Stu
> > > 
> > > > > Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo 
> > > Album site and help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
> > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> > Thanks for your help.
> > 

Stus-List Re: Bringing lines back to Cockpit.

[Dave S via CnC-List]

Double check the orientation and total operating footprint consumed by the line 
clutches before you proceed, especially if they will live under a dodger.  



Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 30, 2023, at 2:11 PM, Bob Mann via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> I did this on my 35-1 (called Mystic).  I used Garhauer too but this one: 
> Deck Organizer 30-DO-QBI | Garhauer (garhauermarine.com).  I chose a location 
> about even with the front of the mid-boat hatch and angled them so the angle 
> to mast was the same as the angle to the clutch.  Check coach roof to make 
> sure there's nothing in the way for where the bolts come through the deck.  I 
> ended up with one bolt half on a molded edge.  I have the plastics caps for 
> hiding the holes, if you want some.
> 
> Halyard length needs to be twice deck-to-masthead height + distance back to 
> cockpit + about 6 feet.
> 
> Bob 
>> On 03/30/2023 1:52 PM John McCrea via CnC-List  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hello. In the process of moving all my lines from the mast back to the 
>> cockpit and wanted to see what others have done. All old winches and deck 
>> gear is off. Also, I am going to replace my jib halyards (main, spin and 
>> topping lift were already back to the cockpit on old blocks etc) if anyone 
>> has an any measurements for the 36-1 halyards to the cockpit please let me 
>> know.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> For the new deck hardware.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I am thinking about using the following:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Deck Organizer 40-DO-QB | Garhauer (garhauermarine.com)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Spinlock Mid-Size Boat Deck Organizer | Defender
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Still looking at clutches, want quads and Spinlock/Lewmar/Garhauer have them.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Bought two used Lewmar 30 ST for each clutch.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I am thinking I need to get both the deck organizers up near the mast where 
>> the winches used to be and the clutch organizers to make sure that the lines 
>> are not hitting up against the traveler base.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> John McCrea
>> 
>> Talisman
>> 
>> 1979 36-1
>> 
>> Mystic, CT
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and 
>> help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: 
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
>> Thanks for your help. 
>> Stu
> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
> me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> Thanks for your help.
> Stu
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Bringing lines back to Cockpit.

[Bob Mann via CnC-List]

I did this on my 35-1 (called Mystic).  I used Garhauer too but this one: Deck 
Organizer 30-DO-QBI | Garhauer (garhauermarine.com) 
https://www.garhauermarine.com/shop/deck-blocks-hardware-mast-boom-blocks-hardware/deck-organizers/deck-organizer-30-do-qbi/
 .  I chose a location about even with the front of the mid-boat hatch and 
angled them so the angle to mast was the same as the angle to the clutch.  
Check coach roof to make sure there's nothing in the way for where the bolts 
come through the deck.  I ended up with one bolt half on a molded edge.  I have 
the plastics caps for hiding the holes, if you want some.

Halyard length needs to be twice deck-to-masthead height + distance back to 
cockpit + about 6 feet.

Bob 

> On 03/30/2023 1:52 PM John McCrea via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Hello. In the process of moving all my lines from the mast back to the 
> cockpit and wanted to see what others have done. All old winches and deck 
> gear is off. Also, I am going to replace my jib halyards (main, spin and 
> topping lift were already back to the cockpit on old blocks etc) if anyone 
> has an any measurements for the 36-1 halyards to the cockpit please let me 
> know.
> 
>  
> 
> For the new deck hardware.
> 
>  
> 
> I am thinking about using the following:
> 
>  
> 
> Deck Organizer 40-DO-QB | Garhauer (garhauermarine.com) 
> https://www.garhauermarine.com/shop/deck-blocks-hardware-mast-boom-blocks-hardware/deck-organizers/deck-organizer-40-do-qb/
> 
> 
> Spinlock Mid-Size Boat Deck Organizer | Defender 
> https://defender.com/en_us/spinlock-mid-size-boat-deck-organizer
> 
> 
> Still looking at clutches, want quads and Spinlock/Lewmar/Garhauer have 
> them.
> 
>  
> 
> Bought two used Lewmar 30 ST for each clutch.
> 
>  
> 
> I am thinking I need to get both the deck organizers up near the mast 
> where the winches used to be and the clutch organizers to make sure that the 
> lines are not hitting up against the traveler base.
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks!
> 
>  
> 
> John McCrea
> 
> Talisman
> 
> 1979 36-1
> 
> Mystic, CT
> 
>  
> 
>
> 
>
> 
> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and 
> help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> Thanks for your help.
> Stu
> 
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu