Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots
I know this has veered a bit off the original thread asking about fitment issues, so I figured I might as well chime in now that we're sufficiently off course... ;) My 35-2 came with an old ComNav autopilot which drives a RayMarine wheel pilot drive, not sure which vintage. The ComNav seems pretty robust (they make mainly commercial units), but is now ~20 years old. It has a rudder feedback arm mounted off the quadrant, and is capable of driving a hydraulic drive up to 20A. Lately the unit will give an error indicating a rudder feedback error, but I think it may just be complaining about the belt slippage which occurs whenever I am motoring over 5.5kts or there is any sea state beyond a light chop, so we rarely use it except for dropping the main on occasion now. The main weakness seems to be the wheel drive, as the housing has stress cracks at the sections where the two halves are joined, and when it skips a tooth, I can see the housing split apart slightly. Maybe a new housing would fix this, but the noise it makes while under sail is too annoying for me to use it much anyway. Our next boat will definitely have a direct drive AP, as per Don's comment below. I've sailed a newer Dufour with a below deck chain drive AP that seems to work well and is quiet, so it doesn't necessarily need to be hydraulic. -- Shawn Wright shawngwri...@gmail.com S/V Callisto, 1974 C 35 https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 11:50 AM Don Marlin via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > My experience is with a C 40. When we first got my boat it had a > functioning ST4000+ wheel pilot. It was fine motoring and sailing in light > winds. > Based on the literature, our boat is technically too heavy for the ST4000+. > > My main complaints for the ST4000+ Wheel Pilot: > 1) it was noisy...and it is not a pleasant noise as load increases. Think > nails on a chalkboard > 2) when it got overpowered the AP gave up and simply stopped controlling > 3) it was erratic but this might be due to compass placement or the fact > it always seemed behind the boat. > ... > *If it was me, anything 35' or larger would automatically be a below deck > system.* > > > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots
My experience is with a C 40. When we first got my boat it had a functioning ST4000+ wheel pilot. It was fine motoring and sailing in light winds. Based on the literature, our boat is technically too heavy for the ST4000+. My main complaints for the ST4000+ Wheel Pilot: 1) it was noisy...and it is not a pleasant noise as load increases. Think nails on a chalkboard 2) when it got overpowered the AP gave up and simply stopped controlling 3) it was erratic but this might be due to compass placement or the fact it always seemed behind the boat. The PO installation was also missing the rudder feedback sensor as well as one of the wheel pilot connections to the wheel. The first thing(s) I did were to add the third wheel mount as well as the rudder feedback. This helped a little but the AP was still unreliable. I view the AP as a safety feature so it needs to be reliable. I decided to upgrade to a below deck AP. I chose to add an Octopus hydraulic ram. One nice thing about the ST4000+ is it has a clutch output so in theory it can drive a below deck unit with minimum modifications. The ST4000+ does not have much current drive capability. I believe it can supply a max of 5 amps. Most hydraulic drives require more current so I added a solid state H-Bridge to interface to the hydraulic pump. This was about another $100-$150. Finally you need to change the configuration to enable the rudder feedback and clutch output (set the unit to be an ST5000+). We now have a very reliable and capable AP. Looking to the future, the current Raymarine offering has the EV-100, EV-200, EV-300 etc. The EV-100 is similar in capability to the ST4000+ BUT it does not have the ability to drive a clutch. This is critical for any below deck AP. The EV-200 can drive a clutch BUT is about twice the price of the EV-100. This is an important distinction because if someone was buying an AP and they were unsure if the wheel pilot was good enoughthen it is a big gamble. If the wheel pilot does not work you have to replace a bunch of stuff to convert your new AP to drive a below deck AP on top of the below deck actuator. If it was me, anything 35' or larger would automatically be a below deck system. On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 12:31 PM dwight veinot via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Same for my 4000 plus. It needed the rudder sensor to work at all. What a > PITA installing the rudder sensor was. When the Raymarine 4000 plus works > well on my boat I can use it to steer the boat straight upwind to hoist the > mainsail and I can use it while motoring but it seems to adjust too much > when sailing off the wind so I just don’t use it for that. > > On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 8:02 PM Bill Coleman via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > >> That's what I was wondering about. When I bought my 4000 Plus, the sales >> guy at defender said I didn't need the rudder feedback unit. But it was >> pretty worthless and I was very disappointed. Once I put the rudder >> feedback unit in, it worked brilliantly. The brains need to know where the >> rudder is otherwise it's just shooting in the dark. I wouldn't want to >> dissuade you from going to the hydraulic unit, as they are definitely >> superior. But I think you would be very surprised at how good it would work >> with the 4000 Plus and a rudder feedback. >> >> >> Bill Coleman >> >> On Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 4:45 PM Hans Reinhardt via CnC-List < >> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: >> >>> Bill, >>> My manual and technical records are on the boat so I had to google >>> “rudder feedback arm”. Ete’ does not have a separate one. All feedback >>> signaling appears to happen via the wheel apparatus and dealt with in the >>> control head. As arms are readily available new I would guess that they >>> are used in more current models. My Autohelm Wheel Pilot is quite old - 20 >>> years? Shortly after I bought the boat in 2015 I looked into replacing the >>> autopilot. I remember that the latest wheel units were rated for no heavier >>> a boat. It’s at that point that I realized I would need to spring for and >>> shoehorn in an under deck unit. An engine replacement and compartment refit >>> in 2019 put that item off a couple of years. I hope this helps. >>> >>> Hans R >>> S/V Ete’ >>> 1982 C >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Oct 24, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List < >>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hans, does your 4000 unit have the rudder feedback arm? >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> On Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 1:52 PM Hans Reinhardt via CnC-List < >>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: >>> Chuck, My 1982 C came with the older Autohelm 4000 (Raymarine) autopilot. The unit is supposedly not that different than the latest model you are considering. Mine is inadequate downwind even in our relatively protected central Puget Sound waters. It is affected by more than wind speed - random puffs, wind shifts, crossing wave patterns, large boat wakes, boat roll,
Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots
Dwight, It’s been quite a few years since I got my setup finely polished, but I do remember this little tidbit from one of the Raymarine techs that made it work better – Lee Tang of Raymarine told me upon upgrading the 80CRC to change the AUTOPILOT setting to 5000 Whl when I add the rudder sensor. This helped a LOT. Bill Coleman Entrada, Erie, PA From: dwight veinot via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 12:31 PM To: Stus-List Cc: dwight veinot Subject: Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots Same for my 4000 plus. It needed the rudder sensor to work at all. What a PITA installing the rudder sensor was. When the Raymarine 4000 plus works well on my boat I can use it to steer the boat straight upwind to hoist the mainsail and I can use it while motoring but it seems to adjust too much when sailing off the wind so I just don’t use it for that. On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 8:02 PM Bill Coleman via CnC-List wrote: That's what I was wondering about. When I bought my 4000 Plus, the sales guy at defender said I didn't need the rudder feedback unit. But it was pretty worthless and I was very disappointed. Once I put the rudder feedback unit in, it worked brilliantly. The brains need to know where the rudder is otherwise it's just shooting in the dark. I wouldn't want to dissuade you from going to the hydraulic unit, as they are definitely superior. But I think you would be very surprised at how good it would work with the 4000 Plus and a rudder feedback. Bill Coleman On Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 4:45 PM Hans Reinhardt via CnC-List wrote: Bill, My manual and technical records are on the boat so I had to google “rudder feedback arm”. Ete’ does not have a separate one. All feedback signaling appears to happen via the wheel apparatus and dealt with in the control head. As arms are readily available new I would guess that they are used in more current models. My Autohelm Wheel Pilot is quite old - 20 years? Shortly after I bought the boat in 2015 I looked into replacing the autopilot. I remember that the latest wheel units were rated for no heavier a boat. It’s at that point that I realized I would need to spring for and shoehorn in an under deck unit. An engine replacement and compartment refit in 2019 put that item off a couple of years. I hope this helps. Hans R S/V Ete’ 1982 C Sent from my iPhone On Oct 24, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List wrote: Hans, does your 4000 unit have the rudder feedback arm? Bill On Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 1:52 PM Hans Reinhardt via CnC-List wrote: Chuck, My 1982 C came with the older Autohelm 4000 (Raymarine) autopilot. The unit is supposedly not that different than the latest model you are considering. Mine is inadequate downwind even in our relatively protected central Puget Sound waters. It is affected by more than wind speed - random puffs, wind shifts, crossing wave patterns, large boat wakes, boat roll, etc. All give it panic attacks and me the need for a beer once I am safely back on the dock.若 As the wind rises to the upper teens the unit is often inadequate upwind. As the wind rises further into the twenties I have found the unit to be useless. More experienced friends and marine tech sorts are not surprised. Fancy that. As my budget allows I plan to install a below deck unit, hydraulic or direct drive. That will be a bit of fun. FWIW, at 16-18K lbs. loaded, my boat is over the recommended displacement for the Autohelm wheel unit. I believe yours is similar. I have had to replace the little SSTL drive pins often. I’ve also changed drive belts and otherwise kept the unit well maintained and clean. I mostly singlehand and a strong, reliable autopilot is critical to my continued use of the boat. I am 70, reasonably fit and grew up around smaller boats and stupidly self-endangering marine situations but am no champion or truly experienced old sea dog. So … happily not dead yet. Twixt and ‘tween is not a generally happy place to be in, so … All the best, Hans R S/V Ete’ 1982 C Shilshole Bay Marina Seatlle Sent from my iPhone On Oct 22, 2021, at 12:13 PM, Don Kern via CnC-List wrote: Chuck minor typo! Fat fingers!! - should have been 20 kts not 29. Don On 10/22/2021 2:51 PM, Don Kern via CnC-List wrote: Chuck I have a C 35 Mk2 that has the older Raymarine ST4000 autopilot which is being used at its upper limits. It does Ok up to about 20kts on Narra Bay, Buzzards Bay and Long Island Sound. Have never engaged it above 20 kts. The only problem I have had is the the three plastic "U" brackets that connect the unit to the helms spoke have cracked and needed to be replaced. I think this was due to the Edson pedestal's brake which has become none functional and I initially used the Autohelm to lock the rudder when at anchor/mooring. Not too smart!! Don Kern Fireb
Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots
Same for my 4000 plus. It needed the rudder sensor to work at all. What a PITA installing the rudder sensor was. When the Raymarine 4000 plus works well on my boat I can use it to steer the boat straight upwind to hoist the mainsail and I can use it while motoring but it seems to adjust too much when sailing off the wind so I just don’t use it for that. On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 8:02 PM Bill Coleman via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > That's what I was wondering about. When I bought my 4000 Plus, the sales > guy at defender said I didn't need the rudder feedback unit. But it was > pretty worthless and I was very disappointed. Once I put the rudder > feedback unit in, it worked brilliantly. The brains need to know where the > rudder is otherwise it's just shooting in the dark. I wouldn't want to > dissuade you from going to the hydraulic unit, as they are definitely > superior. But I think you would be very surprised at how good it would work > with the 4000 Plus and a rudder feedback. > > > Bill Coleman > > On Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 4:45 PM Hans Reinhardt via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > >> Bill, >> My manual and technical records are on the boat so I had to google >> “rudder feedback arm”. Ete’ does not have a separate one. All feedback >> signaling appears to happen via the wheel apparatus and dealt with in the >> control head. As arms are readily available new I would guess that they >> are used in more current models. My Autohelm Wheel Pilot is quite old - 20 >> years? Shortly after I bought the boat in 2015 I looked into replacing the >> autopilot. I remember that the latest wheel units were rated for no heavier >> a boat. It’s at that point that I realized I would need to spring for and >> shoehorn in an under deck unit. An engine replacement and compartment refit >> in 2019 put that item off a couple of years. I hope this helps. >> >> Hans R >> S/V Ete’ >> 1982 C >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Oct 24, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List < >> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: >> >> >> Hans, does your 4000 unit have the rudder feedback arm? >> >> Bill >> >> On Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 1:52 PM Hans Reinhardt via CnC-List < >> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: >> >>> Chuck, >>> My 1982 C came with the older Autohelm 4000 (Raymarine) autopilot. >>> The unit is supposedly not that different than the latest model you are >>> considering. Mine is inadequate downwind even in our relatively protected >>> central Puget Sound waters. It is affected by more than wind speed - random >>> puffs, wind shifts, crossing wave patterns, large boat wakes, boat roll, >>> etc. All give it panic attacks and me the need for a beer once I am >>> safely back on the dock.若 As the wind rises to the upper teens the unit is >>> often inadequate upwind. As the wind rises further into the twenties I have >>> found the unit to be useless. More experienced friends and marine tech >>> sorts are not surprised. Fancy that. As my budget allows I plan to install >>> a below deck unit, hydraulic or direct drive. That will be a bit of fun. >>> FWIW, at 16-18K lbs. loaded, my boat is over the recommended displacement >>> for the Autohelm wheel unit. I believe yours is similar. I have had to >>> replace the little SSTL drive pins often. I’ve also changed drive belts and >>> otherwise kept the unit well maintained and clean. I mostly singlehand and >>> a strong, reliable autopilot is critical to my continued use of the boat. I >>> am 70, reasonably fit and grew up around smaller boats and stupidly >>> self-endangering marine situations but am no champion or truly >>> experienced old sea dog. >>> So … happily not dead yet. >>> Twixt and ‘tween is not a generally happy place to be in, so … >>> All the best, >>> Hans R >>> S/V Ete’ 1982 C >>> Shilshole Bay Marina >>> Seatlle >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Oct 22, 2021, at 12:13 PM, Don Kern via CnC-List < >>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: >>> >>> Chuck >>> minor typo! Fat fingers!! - should have been 20 kts not 29. >>> Don >>> >>> On 10/22/2021 2:51 PM, Don Kern via CnC-List wrote: >>> >>> Chuck >>> >>> I have a C 35 Mk2 that has the older Raymarine ST4000 autopilot which >>> is being used at its upper limits. It does Ok up to about 20kts on Narra >>> Bay, Buzzards Bay and Long Island Sound. Have never engaged it above 20 >>> kts. The only problem I have had is the the three plastic "U" brackets that >>> connect the unit to the helms spoke have cracked and needed to be >>> replaced. I think this was due to the Edson pedestal's brake which has >>> become none functional and I initially used the Autohelm to lock the rudder >>> when at anchor/mooring. Not too smart!! >>> >>> Don Kern >>> *Fireball, *C Mk2 >>> Bristol, RI >>> >>> >>> On 10/22/2021 12:10 PM, Novabraid via CnC-List wrote: >>> >>> I’m contemplating adding a new wheel mount auto pilot (Raymarine EV-100) >>> on my 1983 Landfall 35, equipped with an Edson 737 dual lever engine >>> control
Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots
That's what I was wondering about. When I bought my 4000 Plus, the sales guy at defender said I didn't need the rudder feedback unit. But it was pretty worthless and I was very disappointed. Once I put the rudder feedback unit in, it worked brilliantly. The brains need to know where the rudder is otherwise it's just shooting in the dark. I wouldn't want to dissuade you from going to the hydraulic unit, as they are definitely superior. But I think you would be very surprised at how good it would work with the 4000 Plus and a rudder feedback. Bill Coleman On Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 4:45 PM Hans Reinhardt via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Bill, > My manual and technical records are on the boat so I had to google > “rudder feedback arm”. Ete’ does not have a separate one. All feedback > signaling appears to happen via the wheel apparatus and dealt with in the > control head. As arms are readily available new I would guess that they > are used in more current models. My Autohelm Wheel Pilot is quite old - 20 > years? Shortly after I bought the boat in 2015 I looked into replacing the > autopilot. I remember that the latest wheel units were rated for no heavier > a boat. It’s at that point that I realized I would need to spring for and > shoehorn in an under deck unit. An engine replacement and compartment refit > in 2019 put that item off a couple of years. I hope this helps. > > Hans R > S/V Ete’ > 1982 C > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 24, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > > > Hans, does your 4000 unit have the rudder feedback arm? > > Bill > > On Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 1:52 PM Hans Reinhardt via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > >> Chuck, >> My 1982 C came with the older Autohelm 4000 (Raymarine) autopilot. >> The unit is supposedly not that different than the latest model you are >> considering. Mine is inadequate downwind even in our relatively protected >> central Puget Sound waters. It is affected by more than wind speed - random >> puffs, wind shifts, crossing wave patterns, large boat wakes, boat roll, >> etc. All give it panic attacks and me the need for a beer once I am >> safely back on the dock.若 As the wind rises to the upper teens the unit is >> often inadequate upwind. As the wind rises further into the twenties I have >> found the unit to be useless. More experienced friends and marine tech >> sorts are not surprised. Fancy that. As my budget allows I plan to install >> a below deck unit, hydraulic or direct drive. That will be a bit of fun. >> FWIW, at 16-18K lbs. loaded, my boat is over the recommended displacement >> for the Autohelm wheel unit. I believe yours is similar. I have had to >> replace the little SSTL drive pins often. I’ve also changed drive belts and >> otherwise kept the unit well maintained and clean. I mostly singlehand and >> a strong, reliable autopilot is critical to my continued use of the boat. I >> am 70, reasonably fit and grew up around smaller boats and stupidly >> self-endangering marine situations but am no champion or truly >> experienced old sea dog. >> So … happily not dead yet. >> Twixt and ‘tween is not a generally happy place to be in, so … >> All the best, >> Hans R >> S/V Ete’ 1982 C >> Shilshole Bay Marina >> Seatlle >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Oct 22, 2021, at 12:13 PM, Don Kern via CnC-List < >> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: >> >> Chuck >> minor typo! Fat fingers!! - should have been 20 kts not 29. >> Don >> >> On 10/22/2021 2:51 PM, Don Kern via CnC-List wrote: >> >> Chuck >> >> I have a C 35 Mk2 that has the older Raymarine ST4000 autopilot which >> is being used at its upper limits. It does Ok up to about 20kts on Narra >> Bay, Buzzards Bay and Long Island Sound. Have never engaged it above 20 >> kts. The only problem I have had is the the three plastic "U" brackets that >> connect the unit to the helms spoke have cracked and needed to be >> replaced. I think this was due to the Edson pedestal's brake which has >> become none functional and I initially used the Autohelm to lock the rudder >> when at anchor/mooring. Not too smart!! >> >> Don Kern >> *Fireball, *C Mk2 >> Bristol, RI >> >> >> On 10/22/2021 12:10 PM, Novabraid via CnC-List wrote: >> >> I’m contemplating adding a new wheel mount auto pilot (Raymarine EV-100) >> on my 1983 Landfall 35, equipped with an Edson 737 dual lever engine >> control (the type with the two extra stainless tubes that carry the control >> cables). I was curious to see if anyone on the list may have attempted to >> add this style auto pilot to their boat using the same engine control to >> see if there were any clearance issues between the autopilot motor/drive >> unit and the control housing. This type engine control extends below the >> top of the pedestal (beneath the compass) and has up/down levers on port >> and starboard. >> >> I am aware that I’m at the top end of the displacement range for a wheel >> pilot,
Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots
I have a Simrad hydraulic system that works in most everything on my C 41. It does however draw a good bit of electrical current in taxing conditions, Glenn and Lindsey Henderson On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 1:52 PM Hans Reinhardt via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Chuck, > My 1982 C came with the older Autohelm 4000 (Raymarine) autopilot. The > unit is supposedly not that different than the latest model you are > considering. Mine is inadequate downwind even in our relatively protected > central Puget Sound waters. It is affected by more than wind speed - random > puffs, wind shifts, crossing wave patterns, large boat wakes, boat roll, > etc. All give it panic attacks and me the need for a beer once I am > safely back on the dock.若 As the wind rises to the upper teens the unit is > often inadequate upwind. As the wind rises further into the twenties I have > found the unit to be useless. More experienced friends and marine tech > sorts are not surprised. Fancy that. As my budget allows I plan to install > a below deck unit, hydraulic or direct drive. That will be a bit of fun. > FWIW, at 16-18K lbs. loaded, my boat is over the recommended displacement > for the Autohelm wheel unit. I believe yours is similar. I have had to > replace the little SSTL drive pins often. I’ve also changed drive belts and > otherwise kept the unit well maintained and clean. I mostly singlehand and > a strong, reliable autopilot is critical to my continued use of the boat. I > am 70, reasonably fit and grew up around smaller boats and stupidly > self-endangering marine situations but am no champion or truly > experienced old sea dog. > So … happily not dead yet. > Twixt and ‘tween is not a generally happy place to be in, so … > All the best, > Hans R > S/V Ete’ 1982 C > Shilshole Bay Marina > Seatlle > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 22, 2021, at 12:13 PM, Don Kern via CnC-List > wrote: > > Chuck > minor typo! Fat fingers!! - should have been 20 kts not 29. > Don > > On 10/22/2021 2:51 PM, Don Kern via CnC-List wrote: > > Chuck > > I have a C 35 Mk2 that has the older Raymarine ST4000 autopilot which is > being used at its upper limits. It does Ok up to about 20kts on Narra Bay, > Buzzards Bay and Long Island Sound. Have never engaged it above 20 kts. > The only problem I have had is the the three plastic "U" brackets that > connect the unit to the helms spoke have cracked and needed to be > replaced. I think this was due to the Edson pedestal's brake which has > become none functional and I initially used the Autohelm to lock the rudder > when at anchor/mooring. Not too smart!! > > Don Kern > *Fireball, *C Mk2 > Bristol, RI > > > On 10/22/2021 12:10 PM, Novabraid via CnC-List wrote: > > I’m contemplating adding a new wheel mount auto pilot (Raymarine EV-100) > on my 1983 Landfall 35, equipped with an Edson 737 dual lever engine > control (the type with the two extra stainless tubes that carry the control > cables). I was curious to see if anyone on the list may have attempted to > add this style auto pilot to their boat using the same engine control to > see if there were any clearance issues between the autopilot motor/drive > unit and the control housing. This type engine control extends below the > top of the pedestal (beneath the compass) and has up/down levers on port > and starboard. > > I am aware that I’m at the top end of the displacement range for a wheel > pilot, however my main reason for wanting a pilot in the first place is to > facilitate single handing the boat for setting and dousing sails as well as > picking up moorings, etc. I’m not looking to cross oceans, just simple > coastal cruising but since my primary crew member has moved out West, not > having an auto pilot means the boat will sit on the mooring far more often. > A below deck pilot brings with it the challenge of where to mount the > drive unit and the cost of the more expensive pilot, the Edson tiller arm, > and the fabrication of a shelf to mount the drive unit. > > > > Thanks for any advice. > > Chuck Gilchrest > > S/V Half Magic > > 1983 Landfall 35 > > Padanaram, MA > > > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with > the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu > > > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with > the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu > > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with > the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks > - Stu > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with > the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the
Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots
Bill, My manual and technical records are on the boat so I had to google “rudder feedback arm”. Ete’ does not have a separate one. All feedback signaling appears to happen via the wheel apparatus and dealt with in the control head. As arms are readily available new I would guess that they are used in more current models. My Autohelm Wheel Pilot is quite old - 20 years? Shortly after I bought the boat in 2015 I looked into replacing the autopilot. I remember that the latest wheel units were rated for no heavier a boat. It’s at that point that I realized I would need to spring for and shoehorn in an under deck unit. An engine replacement and compartment refit in 2019 put that item off a couple of years. I hope this helps. Hans R S/V Ete’ 1982 C Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 24, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List > wrote: > > > Hans, does your 4000 unit have the rudder feedback arm? > > Bill > >> On Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 1:52 PM Hans Reinhardt via CnC-List >> wrote: >> Chuck, >> My 1982 C came with the older Autohelm 4000 (Raymarine) autopilot. The >> unit is supposedly not that different than the latest model you are >> considering. Mine is inadequate downwind even in our relatively protected >> central Puget Sound waters. It is affected by more than wind speed - random >> puffs, wind shifts, crossing wave patterns, large boat wakes, boat roll, >> etc. All give it panic attacks and me the need for a beer once I am safely >> back on the dock.若 As the wind rises to the upper teens the unit is often >> inadequate upwind. As the wind rises further into the twenties I have found >> the unit to be useless. More experienced friends and marine tech sorts are >> not surprised. Fancy that. As my budget allows I plan to install a below >> deck unit, hydraulic or direct drive. That will be a bit of fun. FWIW, at >> 16-18K lbs. loaded, my boat is over the recommended displacement for the >> Autohelm wheel unit. I believe yours is similar. I have had to replace the >> little SSTL drive pins often. I’ve also changed drive belts and otherwise >> kept the unit well maintained and clean. I mostly singlehand and a strong, >> reliable autopilot is critical to my continued use of the boat. I am 70, >> reasonably fit and grew up around smaller boats and stupidly >> self-endangering marine situations but am no champion or truly experienced >> old sea dog. >> So … happily not dead yet. >> Twixt and ‘tween is not a generally happy place to be in, so … >> All the best, >> Hans R >> S/V Ete’ 1982 C >> Shilshole Bay Marina >> Seatlle >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> On Oct 22, 2021, at 12:13 PM, Don Kern via CnC-List wrote: >>> Chuck >>> minor typo! Fat fingers!! - should have been 20 kts not 29. >>> Don >>> >>> On 10/22/2021 2:51 PM, Don Kern via CnC-List wrote: Chuck I have a C 35 Mk2 that has the older Raymarine ST4000 autopilot which is being used at its upper limits. It does Ok up to about 20kts on Narra Bay, Buzzards Bay and Long Island Sound. Have never engaged it above 20 kts. The only problem I have had is the the three plastic "U" brackets that connect the unit to the helms spoke have cracked and needed to be replaced. I think this was due to the Edson pedestal's brake which has become none functional and I initially used the Autohelm to lock the rudder when at anchor/mooring. Not too smart!! Don Kern Fireball, C Mk2 Bristol, RI On 10/22/2021 12:10 PM, Novabraid via CnC-List wrote: > I’m contemplating adding a new wheel mount auto pilot (Raymarine EV-100) > on my 1983 Landfall 35, equipped with an Edson 737 dual lever engine > control (the type with the two extra stainless tubes that carry the > control cables). I was curious to see if anyone on the list may have > attempted to add this style auto pilot to their boat using the same > engine control to see if there were any clearance issues between the > autopilot motor/drive unit and the control housing. This type engine > control extends below the top of the pedestal (beneath the compass) and > has up/down levers on port and starboard. > > I am aware that I’m at the top end of the displacement range for a wheel > pilot, however my main reason for wanting a pilot in the first place is > to facilitate single handing the boat for setting and dousing sails as > well as picking up moorings, etc. I’m not looking to cross oceans, just > simple coastal cruising but since my primary crew member has moved out > West, not having an auto pilot means the boat will sit on the mooring far > more often. A below deck pilot brings with it the challenge of where to > mount the drive unit and the cost of the more expensive pilot, the Edson > tiller arm, and the fabrication of a shelf to mount the drive unit. >
Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots
Hans, does your 4000 unit have the rudder feedback arm? Bill On Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 1:52 PM Hans Reinhardt via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Chuck, > My 1982 C came with the older Autohelm 4000 (Raymarine) autopilot. The > unit is supposedly not that different than the latest model you are > considering. Mine is inadequate downwind even in our relatively protected > central Puget Sound waters. It is affected by more than wind speed - random > puffs, wind shifts, crossing wave patterns, large boat wakes, boat roll, > etc. All give it panic attacks and me the need for a beer once I am > safely back on the dock.若 As the wind rises to the upper teens the unit is > often inadequate upwind. As the wind rises further into the twenties I have > found the unit to be useless. More experienced friends and marine tech > sorts are not surprised. Fancy that. As my budget allows I plan to install > a below deck unit, hydraulic or direct drive. That will be a bit of fun. > FWIW, at 16-18K lbs. loaded, my boat is over the recommended displacement > for the Autohelm wheel unit. I believe yours is similar. I have had to > replace the little SSTL drive pins often. I’ve also changed drive belts and > otherwise kept the unit well maintained and clean. I mostly singlehand and > a strong, reliable autopilot is critical to my continued use of the boat. I > am 70, reasonably fit and grew up around smaller boats and stupidly > self-endangering marine situations but am no champion or truly > experienced old sea dog. > So … happily not dead yet. > Twixt and ‘tween is not a generally happy place to be in, so … > All the best, > Hans R > S/V Ete’ 1982 C > Shilshole Bay Marina > Seatlle > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 22, 2021, at 12:13 PM, Don Kern via CnC-List > wrote: > > Chuck > minor typo! Fat fingers!! - should have been 20 kts not 29. > Don > > On 10/22/2021 2:51 PM, Don Kern via CnC-List wrote: > > Chuck > > I have a C 35 Mk2 that has the older Raymarine ST4000 autopilot which is > being used at its upper limits. It does Ok up to about 20kts on Narra Bay, > Buzzards Bay and Long Island Sound. Have never engaged it above 20 kts. > The only problem I have had is the the three plastic "U" brackets that > connect the unit to the helms spoke have cracked and needed to be > replaced. I think this was due to the Edson pedestal's brake which has > become none functional and I initially used the Autohelm to lock the rudder > when at anchor/mooring. Not too smart!! > > Don Kern > *Fireball, *C Mk2 > Bristol, RI > > > On 10/22/2021 12:10 PM, Novabraid via CnC-List wrote: > > I’m contemplating adding a new wheel mount auto pilot (Raymarine EV-100) > on my 1983 Landfall 35, equipped with an Edson 737 dual lever engine > control (the type with the two extra stainless tubes that carry the control > cables). I was curious to see if anyone on the list may have attempted to > add this style auto pilot to their boat using the same engine control to > see if there were any clearance issues between the autopilot motor/drive > unit and the control housing. This type engine control extends below the > top of the pedestal (beneath the compass) and has up/down levers on port > and starboard. > > I am aware that I’m at the top end of the displacement range for a wheel > pilot, however my main reason for wanting a pilot in the first place is to > facilitate single handing the boat for setting and dousing sails as well as > picking up moorings, etc. I’m not looking to cross oceans, just simple > coastal cruising but since my primary crew member has moved out West, not > having an auto pilot means the boat will sit on the mooring far more often. > A below deck pilot brings with it the challenge of where to mount the > drive unit and the cost of the more expensive pilot, the Edson tiller arm, > and the fabrication of a shelf to mount the drive unit. > > > > Thanks for any advice. > > Chuck Gilchrest > > S/V Half Magic > > 1983 Landfall 35 > > Padanaram, MA > > > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with > the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu > > > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with > the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu > > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with > the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks > - Stu > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with > the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks > - Stu Thanks to all of the
Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots
Chuck, My 1982 C came with the older Autohelm 4000 (Raymarine) autopilot. The unit is supposedly not that different than the latest model you are considering. Mine is inadequate downwind even in our relatively protected central Puget Sound waters. It is affected by more than wind speed - random puffs, wind shifts, crossing wave patterns, large boat wakes, boat roll, etc. All give it panic attacks and me the need for a beer once I am safely back on the dock.若 As the wind rises to the upper teens the unit is often inadequate upwind. As the wind rises further into the twenties I have found the unit to be useless. More experienced friends and marine tech sorts are not surprised. Fancy that. As my budget allows I plan to install a below deck unit, hydraulic or direct drive. That will be a bit of fun. FWIW, at 16-18K lbs. loaded, my boat is over the recommended displacement for the Autohelm wheel unit. I believe yours is similar. I have had to replace the little SSTL drive pins often. I’ve also changed drive belts and otherwise kept the unit well maintained and clean. I mostly singlehand and a strong, reliable autopilot is critical to my continued use of the boat. I am 70, reasonably fit and grew up around smaller boats and stupidly self-endangering marine situations but am no champion or truly experienced old sea dog. So … happily not dead yet. Twixt and ‘tween is not a generally happy place to be in, so … All the best, Hans R S/V Ete’ 1982 C Shilshole Bay Marina Seatlle Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 22, 2021, at 12:13 PM, Don Kern via CnC-List > wrote: > > Chuck > minor typo! Fat fingers!! - should have been 20 kts not 29. > Don > > On 10/22/2021 2:51 PM, Don Kern via CnC-List wrote: >> Chuck >> >> I have a C 35 Mk2 that has the older Raymarine ST4000 autopilot which is >> being used at its upper limits. It does Ok up to about 20kts on Narra Bay, >> Buzzards Bay and Long Island Sound. Have never engaged it above 20 kts. The >> only problem I have had is the the three plastic "U" brackets that connect >> the unit to the helms spoke have cracked and needed to be replaced. I think >> this was due to the Edson pedestal's brake which has become none functional >> and I initially used the Autohelm to lock the rudder when at anchor/mooring. >> Not too smart!! >> >> Don Kern >> Fireball, C Mk2 >> Bristol, RI >> >> >> On 10/22/2021 12:10 PM, Novabraid via CnC-List wrote: >>> I’m contemplating adding a new wheel mount auto pilot (Raymarine EV-100) on >>> my 1983 Landfall 35, equipped with an Edson 737 dual lever engine control >>> (the type with the two extra stainless tubes that carry the control >>> cables). I was curious to see if anyone on the list may have attempted to >>> add this style auto pilot to their boat using the same engine control to >>> see if there were any clearance issues between the autopilot motor/drive >>> unit and the control housing. This type engine control extends below the >>> top of the pedestal (beneath the compass) and has up/down levers on port >>> and starboard. >>> I am aware that I’m at the top end of the displacement range for a wheel >>> pilot, however my main reason for wanting a pilot in the first place is to >>> facilitate single handing the boat for setting and dousing sails as well as >>> picking up moorings, etc. I’m not looking to cross oceans, just simple >>> coastal cruising but since my primary crew member has moved out West, not >>> having an auto pilot means the boat will sit on the mooring far more often. >>> A below deck pilot brings with it the challenge of where to mount the >>> drive unit and the cost of the more expensive pilot, the Edson tiller arm, >>> and the fabrication of a shelf to mount the drive unit. >>> >>> Thanks for any advice. >>> Chuck Gilchrest >>> S/V Half Magic >>> 1983 Landfall 35 >>> Padanaram, MA >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with >>> the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use >>> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - >>> Stu >> >> >> >> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with >> the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use >> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - >> Stu > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with > the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots
I have the great grandaddy of all the wheel pilots, the AutoHelm 4000. It works great motoring in calm conditions or going upwind in about anything. Downwind with any swell it gets way behind the boat. Running under chute with the autopilot is light air only. I have a winter project to build a new course computer out of a Raspberry Pi for it, we’ll see how much better that works. Speaking of…….ignore the displacement ratings for autopilots. The old AH4000 could steer a freighter, steel hull issues excepted, big ships have power steering and the physical effort is low. What you REALLY need to think about is load on the helm. If the boat is hard for YOU to steer, a wheel pilot will have one hell of a time. Pretty much any of our C will overwhelm a wheel pilot if driven hard enough and even the biggest ones will do fine on a light air motor. Joe Della Barba Coquina C 35 MK I Kent Island MD USA Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots
the wheel may require an offset hub as well in order for the ring to have adequate clearance. I found this out when I was looking at a different wheel last season, and I posted the info in my blog for my own reference. The wheel I tried had a hub that placed the spikes closer to the pedestal and the ev100 drive unit would not fit. http://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/2021/09/folding-wheel.html?m=1 Dave Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 23, 2021, at 12:00 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List > wrote: > > > EV100 is a belt -driven unit, with the belt completely hidden in the plastic > enclosure attached to the steering wheel. > > I suggest measuring the unit directly, but you may have a problem with > mounting the drive motor. Normally, it is installed on the side of the > pedestal. If you have a throttle/ gear cable conduit on the side, this may > very well interfere with the installation. > > The manual includes detailed dimensions. If you cannot find it, I have it on > my Dropbox here: > https://www.dropbox.com/s/cephminihax3p3s/Wheel%20Drive%20%28E12093%29%20Installation%20instructions%2087287-2-EN.pdf?dl=0. > I will keep it for a few days, if you want to download it. > > Good luck > > Marek > > > From: Bill Coleman via CnC-List > Sent: Friday, October 22, 2021 6:32 PM > To: 'Stus-List' > Cc: Bill Coleman > Subject: Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots > > Chuck, Isn’t the EV100 Wheel Pilot a belt driven unit? From what I see on > YouTube it seems to be . . . > Maybe you can get the dimensions from Raymarine and just measure how it will > fit – or just get them from an existing installation around you. > I had a 400+ on a 39, and it performed beautifully. The rudder was perfectly > balanced, tho, and you could let it steer itself, and spin it with a finger. > > Bill Coleman > Entrada, Erie, PA > > > > From: Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] > Sent: Friday, October 22, 2021 4:59 PM > To: Stus-List > Cc: Chuck Gilchrest > Subject: Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots > > Thanks folks for the input on the feasibility of using the wheel pilot with a > vessel the size and displacement of Half Magic. I recently brought a Cape > Dory 36 with a wheel pilot from Narragansett Bay to Martha’s Vineyard and > while it has limits It worked great on the much heavier boat. Not in 25 kts, > but just fine in 15 kts. > > What I want the pilot to do is to keep the boat on a heading when I set or > douse sails, or go to pick up a mooring. No passagemaking… > > But please reread my initial question: Will a new Raymarine EV100 wheel > pilot (not the belt kind) fit an Edson pedestal with a model 737 Dual Lever ( > unique to C& C) engine control without interfering with the control housing? > That’s what I’m really needing to know before making a purchase. If the > answer is no, I defer a few more years to buy the significantly more > expensive below deck pilot and sail the boat a whole lot less until then. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Oct 22, 2021, at 3:29 PM, Doug via CnC-List wrote: > > > Is like Gorillas and guérillas? > > > > Doug Mountjoy > sv Rebecca Leah > C & C Landfall 39 > Port Orchard Yacht Club > Port Orchard, WA > > > Original message > From: Don Kern via CnC-List > Date: 10/22/21 12:13 (GMT-08:00) > To: Stus-List > Cc: Don Kern > Subject: Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots > > Chuck > minor typo! Fat fingers!! - should have been 20 kts not 29. > Don > > On 10/22/2021 2:51 PM, Don Kern via CnC-List wrote: > Chuck > > I have a C 35 Mk2 that has the older Raymarine ST4000 autopilot which is > being used at its upper limits. It does Ok up to about 20kts on Narra Bay, > Buzzards Bay and Long Island Sound. Have never engaged it above 20 kts. The > only problem I have had is the the three plastic "U" brackets that connect > the unit to the helms spoke have cracked and needed to be replaced. I think > this was due to the Edson pedestal's brake which has become none functional > and I initially used the Autohelm to lock the rudder when at anchor/mooring. > Not too smart!! > > Don Kern > Fireball, C Mk2 > Bristol, RI > > On 10/22/2021 12:10 PM, Novabraid via CnC-List wrote: > I’m contemplating adding a new wheel mount auto pilot (Raymarine EV-100) on > my 1983 Landfall 35, equipped with an Edson 737 dual lever engine control > (the type with the two extra stainless tubes that carry the control cables). > I was curious to see if anyone on the list may have attempted to add this > style auto pilot
Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots
I had the wheel pilot on Alera, my 37+/40. It may fine for for your intended use. But as far as I know, it is still a belt drive unit. The primary point of failure is the reduction gear. I went with below deck and regret not doing is years ago. Tom Buscaglia S/V Alera 1990 C 37+/40 Vashon WA P 206.463.9200 C 305.409.3660 > On Oct 22, 2021, at 2:59 PM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List > wrote: > > Thanks folks for the input on the feasibility of using the wheel pilot with > a vessel the size and displacement of Half Magic. I recently brought a Cape > Dory 36 with a wheel pilot from Narragansett Bay to Martha’s Vineyard and > while it has limits It worked great on the much heavier boat. Not in 25 kts, > but just fine in 15 kts. > > What I want the pilot to do is to keep the boat on a heading when I set or > douse sails, or go to pick up a mooring. No passagemaking… > > But please reread my initial question: Will a new Raymarine EV100 wheel > pilot (not the belt kind) fit an Edson pedestal with a model 737 Dual Lever ( > unique to C& C) engine control without interfering with the control housing? > That’s what I’m really needing to know before making a purchase. If the > answer is no, I defer a few more years to buy the significantly more > expensive below deck pilot and sail the boat a whole lot less until then. > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Oct 22, 2021, at 3:29 PM, Doug via CnC-List >>> wrote: >>> >> >> Is like Gorillas and guérillas? >> >> >> >> Doug Mountjoy >> sv Rebecca Leah >> C & C Landfall 39 >> Port Orchard Yacht Club >> Port Orchard, WA >> >> >> ---- Original message >> From: Don Kern via CnC-List >> Date: 10/22/21 12:13 (GMT-08:00) >> To: Stus-List >> Cc: Don Kern >> Subject: Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots >> >> Chuck >> minor typo! Fat fingers!! - should have been 20 kts not 29. >> Don >> >> On 10/22/2021 2:51 PM, Don Kern via CnC-List wrote: >>> Chuck >>> >>> I have a C 35 Mk2 that has the older Raymarine ST4000 autopilot which is >>> being used at its upper limits. It does Ok up to about 20kts on Narra Bay, >>> Buzzards Bay and Long Island Sound. Have never engaged it above 20 kts. >>> The only problem I have had is the the three plastic "U" brackets that >>> connect the unit to the helms spoke have cracked and needed to be replaced. >>> I think this was due to the Edson pedestal's brake which has become none >>> functional and I initially used the Autohelm to lock the rudder when at >>> anchor/mooring. Not too smart!! >>> >>> Don Kern >>> Fireball, C Mk2 >>> Bristol, RI >>> >>> >>> On 10/22/2021 12:10 PM, Novabraid via CnC-List wrote: >>>> I’m contemplating adding a new wheel mount auto pilot (Raymarine EV-100) >>>> on my 1983 Landfall 35, equipped with an Edson 737 dual lever engine >>>> control (the type with the two extra stainless tubes that carry the >>>> control cables). I was curious to see if anyone on the list may have >>>> attempted to add this style auto pilot to their boat using the same engine >>>> control to see if there were any clearance issues between the autopilot >>>> motor/drive unit and the control housing. This type engine control >>>> extends below the top of the pedestal (beneath the compass) and has >>>> up/down levers on port and starboard. >>>> I am aware that I’m at the top end of the displacement range for a wheel >>>> pilot, however my main reason for wanting a pilot in the first place is to >>>> facilitate single handing the boat for setting and dousing sails as well >>>> as picking up moorings, etc. I’m not looking to cross oceans, just simple >>>> coastal cruising but since my primary crew member has moved out West, not >>>> having an auto pilot means the boat will sit on the mooring far more >>>> often. A below deck pilot brings with it the challenge of where to mount >>>> the drive unit and the cost of the more expensive pilot, the Edson tiller >>>> arm, and the fabrication of a shelf to mount the drive unit. >>>> >>>> Thanks for any advice. >>>> Chuck Gilchrest >>>> S/V Half Magic >>>> 1983 Landfall 35 >>>> Padanaram, MA >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the li
Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots
Chuck, Isn’t the EV100 Wheel Pilot a belt driven unit? From what I see on YouTube it seems to be . . . Maybe you can get the dimensions from Raymarine and just measure how it will fit – or just get them from an existing installation around you. I had a 400+ on a 39, and it performed beautifully. The rudder was perfectly balanced, tho, and you could let it steer itself, and spin it with a finger. Bill Coleman Entrada, Erie, PA From: Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] Sent: Friday, October 22, 2021 4:59 PM To: Stus-List Cc: Chuck Gilchrest Subject: Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots Thanks folks for the input on the feasibility of using the wheel pilot with a vessel the size and displacement of Half Magic. I recently brought a Cape Dory 36 with a wheel pilot from Narragansett Bay to Martha’s Vineyard and while it has limits It worked great on the much heavier boat. Not in 25 kts, but just fine in 15 kts. What I want the pilot to do is to keep the boat on a heading when I set or douse sails, or go to pick up a mooring. No passagemaking… But please reread my initial question: Will a new Raymarine EV100 wheel pilot (not the belt kind) fit an Edson pedestal with a model 737 Dual Lever ( unique to C& C) engine control without interfering with the control housing? That’s what I’m really needing to know before making a purchase. If the answer is no, I defer a few more years to buy the significantly more expensive below deck pilot and sail the boat a whole lot less until then. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 22, 2021, at 3:29 PM, Doug via CnC-List wrote: Is like Gorillas and guérillas? Doug Mountjoy sv Rebecca Leah C & C Landfall 39 Port Orchard Yacht Club Port Orchard, WA Original message From: Don Kern via CnC-List Date: 10/22/21 12:13 (GMT-08:00) To: Stus-List Cc: Don Kern Subject: Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots Chuck minor typo! Fat fingers!! - should have been 20 kts not 29. Don On 10/22/2021 2:51 PM, Don Kern via CnC-List wrote: Chuck I have a C 35 Mk2 that has the older Raymarine ST4000 autopilot which is being used at its upper limits. It does Ok up to about 20kts on Narra Bay, Buzzards Bay and Long Island Sound. Have never engaged it above 20 kts. The only problem I have had is the the three plastic "U" brackets that connect the unit to the helms spoke have cracked and needed to be replaced. I think this was due to the Edson pedestal's brake which has become none functional and I initially used the Autohelm to lock the rudder when at anchor/mooring. Not too smart!! Don Kern Fireball, C Mk2 Bristol, RI On 10/22/2021 12:10 PM, Novabraid via CnC-List wrote: I’m contemplating adding a new wheel mount auto pilot (Raymarine EV-100) on my 1983 Landfall 35, equipped with an Edson 737 dual lever engine control (the type with the two extra stainless tubes that carry the control cables). I was curious to see if anyone on the list may have attempted to add this style auto pilot to their boat using the same engine control to see if there were any clearance issues between the autopilot motor/drive unit and the control housing. This type engine control extends below the top of the pedestal (beneath the compass) and has up/down levers on port and starboard. I am aware that I’m at the top end of the displacement range for a wheel pilot, however my main reason for wanting a pilot in the first place is to facilitate single handing the boat for setting and dousing sails as well as picking up moorings, etc. I’m not looking to cross oceans, just simple coastal cruising but since my primary crew member has moved out West, not having an auto pilot means the boat will sit on the mooring far more often. A below deck pilot brings with it the challenge of where to mount the drive unit and the cost of the more expensive pilot, the Edson tiller arm, and the fabrication of a shelf to mount the drive unit. Thanks for any advice. Chuck Gilchrest S/V Half Magic 1983 Landfall 35 Padanaram, MA Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the
Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots
I have a wheel mount Raymarine autopilot on my C 35 MKII a similar displacement boat. It is not as reliable as you may think. The below deck model may be better. On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 1:10 PM Novabraid via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > I’m contemplating adding a new wheel mount auto pilot (Raymarine EV-100) > on my 1983 Landfall 35, equipped with an Edson 737 dual lever engine > control (the type with the two extra stainless tubes that carry the control > cables). I was curious to see if anyone on the list may have attempted to > add this style auto pilot to their boat using the same engine control to > see if there were any clearance issues between the autopilot motor/drive > unit and the control housing. This type engine control extends below the > top of the pedestal (beneath the compass) and has up/down levers on port > and starboard. > > I am aware that I’m at the top end of the displacement range for a wheel > pilot, however my main reason for wanting a pilot in the first place is to > facilitate single handing the boat for setting and dousing sails as well as > picking up moorings, etc. I’m not looking to cross oceans, just simple > coastal cruising but since my primary crew member has moved out West, not > having an auto pilot means the boat will sit on the mooring far more often. > A below deck pilot brings with it the challenge of where to mount the > drive unit and the cost of the more expensive pilot, the Edson tiller arm, > and the fabrication of a shelf to mount the drive unit. > > > > Thanks for any advice. > > Chuck Gilchrest > > S/V Half Magic > > 1983 Landfall 35 > > Padanaram, MA > > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with > the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks > - Stu -- Sent from Gmail Mobile Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots
I installed the EV100 on my Landfall 38 which has the same pedestal and it fits fine without interfering with the throttle or the shift lever. Like others have said it works fine in light to moderate wind, but has issues steering in heavy winds especially with following seas. That's fine with me, most of my use is for motoring on windless days or holding course to get the main up shorthanded. SV Interlude - Manitowoc, WI Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots
Thanks folks for the input on the feasibility of using the wheel pilot with a vessel the size and displacement of Half Magic. I recently brought a Cape Dory 36 with a wheel pilot from Narragansett Bay to Martha’s Vineyard and while it has limits It worked great on the much heavier boat. Not in 25 kts, but just fine in 15 kts. What I want the pilot to do is to keep the boat on a heading when I set or douse sails, or go to pick up a mooring. No passagemaking… But please reread my initial question: Will a new Raymarine EV100 wheel pilot (not the belt kind) fit an Edson pedestal with a model 737 Dual Lever ( unique to C& C) engine control without interfering with the control housing? That’s what I’m really needing to know before making a purchase. If the answer is no, I defer a few more years to buy the significantly more expensive below deck pilot and sail the boat a whole lot less until then. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 22, 2021, at 3:29 PM, Doug via CnC-List wrote: > > > Is like Gorillas and guérillas? > > > > Doug Mountjoy > sv Rebecca Leah > C & C Landfall 39 > Port Orchard Yacht Club > Port Orchard, WA > > > Original message > From: Don Kern via CnC-List > Date: 10/22/21 12:13 (GMT-08:00) > To: Stus-List > Cc: Don Kern > Subject: Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots > > Chuck > minor typo! Fat fingers!! - should have been 20 kts not 29. > Don > > On 10/22/2021 2:51 PM, Don Kern via CnC-List wrote: >> Chuck >> >> I have a C 35 Mk2 that has the older Raymarine ST4000 autopilot which is >> being used at its upper limits. It does Ok up to about 20kts on Narra Bay, >> Buzzards Bay and Long Island Sound. Have never engaged it above 20 kts. The >> only problem I have had is the the three plastic "U" brackets that connect >> the unit to the helms spoke have cracked and needed to be replaced. I think >> this was due to the Edson pedestal's brake which has become none functional >> and I initially used the Autohelm to lock the rudder when at anchor/mooring. >> Not too smart!! >> >> Don Kern >> Fireball, C Mk2 >> Bristol, RI >> >> >> On 10/22/2021 12:10 PM, Novabraid via CnC-List wrote: >>> I’m contemplating adding a new wheel mount auto pilot (Raymarine EV-100) on >>> my 1983 Landfall 35, equipped with an Edson 737 dual lever engine control >>> (the type with the two extra stainless tubes that carry the control >>> cables). I was curious to see if anyone on the list may have attempted to >>> add this style auto pilot to their boat using the same engine control to >>> see if there were any clearance issues between the autopilot motor/drive >>> unit and the control housing. This type engine control extends below the >>> top of the pedestal (beneath the compass) and has up/down levers on port >>> and starboard. >>> I am aware that I’m at the top end of the displacement range for a wheel >>> pilot, however my main reason for wanting a pilot in the first place is to >>> facilitate single handing the boat for setting and dousing sails as well as >>> picking up moorings, etc. I’m not looking to cross oceans, just simple >>> coastal cruising but since my primary crew member has moved out West, not >>> having an auto pilot means the boat will sit on the mooring far more often. >>> A below deck pilot brings with it the challenge of where to mount the >>> drive unit and the cost of the more expensive pilot, the Edson tiller arm, >>> and the fabrication of a shelf to mount the drive unit. >>> >>> Thanks for any advice. >>> Chuck Gilchrest >>> S/V Half Magic >>> 1983 Landfall 35 >>> Padanaram, MA >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with >>> the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use >>> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - >>> Stu >> >> >> >> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with >> the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use >> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - >> Stu > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with > the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots
Is like Gorillas and guérillas? Doug Mountjoy sv Rebecca Leah C & C Landfall
39Port Orchard Yacht Club Port Orchard, WA
Original message From: Don Kern via CnC-List
Date: 10/22/21 12:13 (GMT-08:00) To: Stus-List
Cc: Don Kern Subject: Stus-List Re:
Engine controls and Auto Pilots
Chuck
minor typo! Fat fingers!! - should have been 20 kts not 29.
Don
On 10/22/2021 2:51 PM, Don Kern via
CnC-List wrote:
Chuck
I have a C 35 Mk2 that has the older Raymarine ST4000
autopilot which is being used at its upper limits. It does Ok up
to about 20kts on Narra Bay, Buzzards Bay and Long Island Sound.
Have never engaged it above 20 kts. The only problem I have had is
the the three plastic "U" brackets that connect the unit to the
helms spoke have cracked and needed to be replaced. I think this
was due to the Edson pedestal's brake which has become none
functional and I initially used the Autohelm to lock the rudder
when at anchor/mooring. Not too smart!!
Don Kern
Fireball, C Mk2
Bristol, RI
On 10/22/2021 12:10 PM, Novabraid via
CnC-List wrote:
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I’m contemplating adding a new wheel
mount auto pilot (Raymarine EV-100) on my 1983 Landfall 35,
equipped with an Edson 737 dual lever engine control (the
type with the two extra stainless tubes that carry the
control cables). I was curious to see if anyone on the list
may have attempted to add this style auto pilot to their
boat using the same engine control to see if there were any
clearance issues between the autopilot motor/drive unit and
the control housing. This type engine control extends below
the top of the pedestal (beneath the compass) and has
up/down levers on port and starboard.
I am aware that I’m at the top end of the
displacement range for a wheel pilot, however my main reason
for wanting a pilot in the first place is to facilitate
single handing the boat for setting and dousing sails as
well as picking up moorings, etc. I’m not looking to cross
oceans, just simple coastal cruising but since my primary
crew member has moved out West, not having an auto pilot
means the boat will sit on the mooring far more often. A
below deck pilot brings with it the challenge of where to
mount the drive unit and the cost of the more expensive
pilot, the Edson tiller arm, and the fabrication of a shelf
to mount the drive unit.
Thanks for any advice.
Chuck Gilchrest
S/V Half Magic
1983 Landfall 35
Padanaram, MA
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help
with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use
PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help
with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use
PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the
costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to
send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots
I have a 33-2 and have had a like/hate relationship with the ev100. It is extremely sensitive to belt tension adjustment and it’s misbehaviours are well documented online. A not so well documented hack I learned last summer (as a result of yet Another frustrating standoff) was to lubricate inside the small idler wheels within the housing. This has provided a likely temporary peace. When it’s dialed in it works pretty well (except in bigger seas, downwind). The recent firmware is much improved vs older versions. If I had to do it again I would go belowdecks, no question at all. The wheel pilot does not seem very robust though to be fair nothing has actually broken in 5 seasons use. (14 weeks of weekends annually, in fresh water….). If I were to upgrade I would likely use an octopus drive as it’s reasonable in cost and flexible as to location. Be aware that the base level control unit ecu-100 is not compatible with remote actuators, so if you want to leave yourself the upgrade option, purchase the next model up. (Needs a connection for an electrically operated clutch, plus adequate current for the drive) Dave Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 22, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Novabraid via CnC-List > wrote: > > > I’m contemplating adding a new wheel mount auto pilot (Raymarine EV-100) on > my 1983 Landfall 35, equipped with an Edson 737 dual lever engine control > (the type with the two extra stainless tubes that carry the control cables). > I was curious to see if anyone on the list may have attempted to add this > style auto pilot to their boat using the same engine control to see if there > were any clearance issues between the autopilot motor/drive unit and the > control housing. This type engine control extends below the top of the > pedestal (beneath the compass) and has up/down levers on port and starboard. > I am aware that I’m at the top end of the displacement range for a wheel > pilot, however my main reason for wanting a pilot in the first place is to > facilitate single handing the boat for setting and dousing sails as well as > picking up moorings, etc. I’m not looking to cross oceans, just simple > coastal cruising but since my primary crew member has moved out West, not > having an auto pilot means the boat will sit on the mooring far more often. > A below deck pilot brings with it the challenge of where to mount the drive > unit and the cost of the more expensive pilot, the Edson tiller arm, and the > fabrication of a shelf to mount the drive unit. > > Thanks for any advice. > Chuck Gilchrest > S/V Half Magic > 1983 Landfall 35 > Padanaram, MA > > Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with > the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots
Chuck minor typo! Fat fingers!! - should have been 20 kts not 29. Don On 10/22/2021 2:51 PM, Don Kern via CnC-List wrote: Chuck I have a C 35 Mk2 that has the older Raymarine ST4000 autopilot which is being used at its upper limits. It does Ok up to about 20kts on Narra Bay, Buzzards Bay and Long Island Sound. Have never engaged it above 20 kts. The only problem I have had is the the three plastic "U" brackets that connect the unit to the helms spoke have cracked and needed to be replaced. I think this was due to the Edson pedestal's brake which has become none functional and I initially used the Autohelm to lock the rudder when at anchor/mooring. Not too smart!! Don Kern /Fireball, /C Mk2 Bristol, RI On 10/22/2021 12:10 PM, Novabraid via CnC-List wrote: I’m contemplating adding a new wheel mount auto pilot (Raymarine EV-100) on my 1983 Landfall 35, equipped with an Edson 737 dual lever engine control (the type with the two extra stainless tubes that carry the control cables). I was curious to see if anyone on the list may have attempted to add this style auto pilot to their boat using the same engine control to see if there were any clearance issues between the autopilot motor/drive unit and the control housing. This type engine control extends below the top of the pedestal (beneath the compass) and has up/down levers on port and starboard. I am aware that I’m at the top end of the displacement range for a wheel pilot, however my main reason for wanting a pilot in the first place is to facilitate single handing the boat for setting and dousing sails as well as picking up moorings, etc. I’m not looking to cross oceans, just simple coastal cruising but since my primary crew member has moved out West, not having an auto pilot means the boat will sit on the mooring far more often. A below deck pilot brings with it the challenge of where to mount the drive unit and the cost of the more expensive pilot, the Edson tiller arm, and the fabrication of a shelf to mount the drive unit. Thanks for any advice. Chuck Gilchrest S/V Half Magic 1983 Landfall 35 Padanaram, MA Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution --https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution --https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots
Chuck I have a C 35 Mk2 that has the older Raymarine ST4000 autopilot which is being used at its upper limits. It does Ok up to about 20kts on Narra Bay, Buzzards Bay and Long Island Sound. Have never engaged it above 29 kts. The only problem I have had is the the three plastic "U" brackets that connect the unit to the helms spoke have cracked and needed to be replaced. I think this was due to the Edson pedestal's brake which has become none functional and I initially used the Autohelm to lock the rudder when at anchor/mooring. Not too smart!! Don Kern /Fireball, /C Mk2 Bristol, RI On 10/22/2021 12:10 PM, Novabraid via CnC-List wrote: I’m contemplating adding a new wheel mount auto pilot (Raymarine EV-100) on my 1983 Landfall 35, equipped with an Edson 737 dual lever engine control (the type with the two extra stainless tubes that carry the control cables). I was curious to see if anyone on the list may have attempted to add this style auto pilot to their boat using the same engine control to see if there were any clearance issues between the autopilot motor/drive unit and the control housing. This type engine control extends below the top of the pedestal (beneath the compass) and has up/down levers on port and starboard. I am aware that I’m at the top end of the displacement range for a wheel pilot, however my main reason for wanting a pilot in the first place is to facilitate single handing the boat for setting and dousing sails as well as picking up moorings, etc. I’m not looking to cross oceans, just simple coastal cruising but since my primary crew member has moved out West, not having an auto pilot means the boat will sit on the mooring far more often. A below deck pilot brings with it the challenge of where to mount the drive unit and the cost of the more expensive pilot, the Edson tiller arm, and the fabrication of a shelf to mount the drive unit. Thanks for any advice. Chuck Gilchrest S/V Half Magic 1983 Landfall 35 Padanaram, MA Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution --https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Engine controls and Auto Pilots
All, Finally something I can comment on --- all of you experts know so much and I feel like a toddler at the kids table at Thanksgiving when I listen to you all. My experience with a wheel pilot was the Raymarine one you mention. I put it on a Rawson 30 cutter rigged with an Edson wheel and pedestal. The Rawson is a VERY heavy boat for it's size and I felt that I was pushing the limits with the wheel pilot. In "calm seas" it did GREAT. however anything above 3-5' it wouldn't handle it at all and I had to hand steer. Keep in mind the Rawson was very heavy and lots of freeboard. and it needed a lot of wind to really get the rail down. So it was kind of at odds with itself as far as autopilots go. it needed a lot of wind to get really moving, and then when it had that, the seas were so "rolly" that the wheel pilot just couldn't hold the line. I tried all the calibration tricks, and so long as it wasn't too much above 10-12 knots, it was OK. after that - nope. It integrated well into all the electronic goodies and had no problems there. (chart plotter, GPS, Radar (Radar was Furuno, Chart plotter Garmin, GPS Raymarine). So now that Alethea (C 43) has a shopping list for upgrades - she is getting a new below decks autopilot - something along the lines of the EV-400 or something maybe like a Simrad AP28 . Still researching.. Interestingly enough I had a C 34 (Gabriella) that had the wheel taken out and a tiller fit on.. When I bought her she had a "little" (and cheap) Simrad tiller pilot and that would hold the C 34 in just about anything . well - anything reasonable - 20-25 knots and choppy Puget Sound seas. But "Gabby" was extraordinarily well balanced and she could be hand steered from the tiller in heavy wind and seas with VERY minimal effort. JP Alethea C 43 From: Novabraid via CnC-List Sent: Friday, October 22, 2021 9:10 AM To: 'Stus-List' Cc: csgilchr...@comcast.net Subject: Stus-List Engine controls and Auto Pilots I'm contemplating adding a new wheel mount auto pilot (Raymarine EV-100) on my 1983 Landfall 35, equipped with an Edson 737 dual lever engine control (the type with the two extra stainless tubes that carry the control cables). I was curious to see if anyone on the list may have attempted to add this style auto pilot to their boat using the same engine control to see if there were any clearance issues between the autopilot motor/drive unit and the control housing. This type engine control extends below the top of the pedestal (beneath the compass) and has up/down levers on port and starboard. I am aware that I'm at the top end of the displacement range for a wheel pilot, however my main reason for wanting a pilot in the first place is to facilitate single handing the boat for setting and dousing sails as well as picking up moorings, etc. I'm not looking to cross oceans, just simple coastal cruising but since my primary crew member has moved out West, not having an auto pilot means the boat will sit on the mooring far more often. A below deck pilot brings with it the challenge of where to mount the drive unit and the cost of the more expensive pilot, the Edson tiller arm, and the fabrication of a shelf to mount the drive unit. Thanks for any advice. Chuck Gilchrest S/V Half Magic 1983 Landfall 35 Padanaram, MA Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
