Stus-List Re: Sloppy Rudder post removal

[paul.hood via CnC-List]

The boat is obviously on the hard and wiggling the Rudder shows, from ground, 
looking up, movement of the shaft in the Bushing tube and the Bushing tube 
itself also moves within the hull. Both minor, but in tandem, enough to be a 
problem. The pair of bronze roller wheels are of the equal size, sit nicely on 
the s/s plate, and in a starboard/port orientation when wheel is centered. 
There appears to be 2 nylon rings loose below the Bushing and they currently 
sit loose on the top of the Rutter. Not sure their purpose.I will look on the 
archives too. Paul Hood416.799.5549
 Original message From: wolf...@erie.net Date: 2023-11-04  2:02 
p.m.  (GMT-05:00) To: 'Stus-List'  Cc: "'paul.hood'" 
 Subject: RE: Stus-List Sloppy Rudder post removal Paul: 
I’m sure there are archived e-mail discussions about this – it’s a relatively 
common topic.  The problem with knowing how to respond is that various model 
boats have different rudder configurations.  On my 42 Custom, for example, a 
little bit of fore and aft play developed over 45+ years.  In remedying the 
issue, we discovered a number of interesting things: 1) overall, the design 
(Rob Ball) was excellent, especially the ease with which an emergency tiller 
can be attached; 2) the rudder post “rollers” (for lack of a better term) and 
the deck ring they roll on were bronze and therefore subject to wearing over 
time; 3) the rollers were oriented front and back instead of side to side, 
which we concluded was less than optimal; 4) the deck ring had developed a 
slight indent on the front where the forward roller would rest when the rudder 
was positioned to drive straight; 5) the rollers were not the same size, which 
we at first attributed to decades of wear; 6) I communicated with Rob about 
this when he was alive, and he said there was no way one of the rollers would 
wear that much; 7) when we removed the deck ring, we discovered evidence that 
the deck hole for the rudder post was originally cut in the wrong location, 
repaired, and repositioned (presumably at the Bruckman shop when the boat was 
first built); 8) whoever did the repair/refit did not position the rollers 
correctly to contact the deck ring at the same time (the forward roller 
contacted the ring before the rear roller) – they were probably leveled when 
the rudder was in the wrong position before the repair/refit; and 9) based on 
our observations, we concluded that whoever did the repair/refit put a smaller 
roller on the front to compensate for the leveling error, which is not the 
right way to do it.  To address these issues: 1) we replaced the bronze rollers 
with stainless rollers; 2) we replaced the bronze deck ring with a stainless 
deck ring; and 3) my repair guru properly leveled the new deck ring with the 
new (and same size) rollers using West System with colloidal silica.  The 
rollers now ride as they’re supposed to on the deck ring, and the rudder no 
longer has noticeable fore and aft play. Before we discovered the construction 
error, our original plan of attack was to work on the bushings, which in my 
case are glassed-in fiberglass tubes.  Glad we didn’t do that. MattC 42 
Custom   From: paul.hood via CnC-List  Sent: Saturday, 
November 4, 2023 11:43 AMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comCc: paul.hood 
Subject: Stus-List Sloppy Rudder post removal Inquiring 
for a buddy who has a 1979 C mkii His Rudder post is sloppy and we're 
dropping it out today. Has anyone done this?  Does anyone have fabrication 
knowledge, drawings, part suppliers, suggestions to fix, etc?Paul 
Hood416.799.5549C Refuge - Georgian Bay Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Sloppy Rudder post removal

[Matt Wolford via CnC-List]

Paul:

 

I’m sure there are archived e-mail discussions about this – it’s a relatively 
common topic.  The problem with knowing how to respond is that various model 
boats have different rudder configurations.  On my 42 Custom, for example, a 
little bit of fore and aft play developed over 45+ years.  In remedying the 
issue, we discovered a number of interesting things: 1) overall, the design 
(Rob Ball) was excellent, especially the ease with which an emergency tiller 
can be attached; 2) the rudder post “rollers” (for lack of a better term) and 
the deck ring they roll on were bronze and therefore subject to wearing over 
time; 3) the rollers were oriented front and back instead of side to side, 
which we concluded was less than optimal; 4) the deck ring had developed a 
slight indent on the front where the forward roller would rest when the rudder 
was positioned to drive straight; 5) the rollers were not the same size, which 
we at first attributed to decades of wear; 6) I communicated with Rob about 
this when he was alive, and he said there was no way one of the rollers would 
wear that much; 7) when we removed the deck ring, we discovered evidence that 
the deck hole for the rudder post was originally cut in the wrong location, 
repaired, and repositioned (presumably at the Bruckman shop when the boat was 
first built); 8) whoever did the repair/refit did not position the rollers 
correctly to contact the deck ring at the same time (the forward roller 
contacted the ring before the rear roller) – they were probably leveled when 
the rudder was in the wrong position before the repair/refit; and 9) based on 
our observations, we concluded that whoever did the repair/refit put a smaller 
roller on the front to compensate for the leveling error, which is not the 
right way to do it.  To address these issues: 1) we replaced the bronze rollers 
with stainless rollers; 2) we replaced the bronze deck ring with a stainless 
deck ring; and 3) my repair guru properly leveled the new deck ring with the 
new (and same size) rollers using West System with colloidal silica.  The 
rollers now ride as they’re supposed to on the deck ring, and the rudder no 
longer has noticeable fore and aft play.

 

Before we discovered the construction error, our original plan of attack was to 
work on the bushings, which in my case are glassed-in fiberglass tubes.  Glad 
we didn’t do that.

 

Matt

C 42 Custom  

 

From: paul.hood via CnC-List  
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2023 11:43 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: paul.hood 
Subject: Stus-List Sloppy Rudder post removal

 

Inquiring for a buddy who has a 1979 C mkii

 

His Rudder post is sloppy and we're dropping it out today. Has anyone done 
this?  Does anyone have fabrication knowledge, drawings, part suppliers, 
suggestions to fix, etc?  

 

 

Paul Hood

416.799.5549

C Refuge - Georgian Bay

 

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Sloppy Rudder post removal

[Korbey Hunt via CnC-List]

I had a nasty shimmy with my tiller rudder.  I had a diver inspect it.  Turned 
out there was a multi arm starfish attached.  Note.  You should check the 
lubrication as well.  I removed the cup cover and added a zerk fitting to it.  
Big improvement.

Get Outlook for Android

From: paul.hood via CnC-List 
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2023 8:42:49 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: paul.hood 
Subject: Stus-List Sloppy Rudder post removal

Inquiring for a buddy who has a 1979 C mkii

His Rudder post is sloppy and we're dropping it out today. Has anyone done 
this?  Does anyone have fabrication knowledge, drawings, part suppliers, 
suggestions to fix, etc?


Paul Hood
416.799.5549
C Refuge - Georgian Bay

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu