Re: Stus-List Rudder Shaft Material
In some cases it seems C&C did both hollow tube and solid bar, at the same time. On a construction drawing for the C&C 37 R and 37+, dated 1990, it shows the rudder post to be: "3.15" O.D x 1.97" I.D. Hollow S.S. Bar w.2" dia. S.S. Round Bar pressed and welded" with the 2" round bar extending out the bottom of the 3.15" dia. tube, down further down into the rudder where the rudder was too thin for the full 3.15" stock. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7X4Y5iVFYAKVkdfbS1Qd19xa2M/view Ken H. On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 at 21:50, Rob Ball via CnC-List wrote: > > So there are C&Cs out there with both solid and tube stocks. > > The ideal tube for rudder posts was Schedule 160 pipe. But, when you > phone up a supplier and ask for some, he says 'How many thousand feet would > you like. That's a special order you know' . . . . . > So, you end up balancing between a schedule 80 pipe which forces the > rudder to be thicker than optimum - or - a solid bar which allows the > rudder to be thinner, but costs you in weight. > Over time the balance wavered back and forth depending on supply and cost. > (Forget what that designer guy wants) . . . . . > Rob Ball. C&C 34 > > > > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Rudder Shaft Material
So there are C&Cs out there with both solid and tube stocks. The ideal tube for rudder posts was Schedule 160 pipe. But, when you phone up a supplier and ask for some, he says 'How many thousand feet would you like. That's a special order you know' . . . . . So, you end up balancing between a schedule 80 pipe which forces the rudder to be thicker than optimum - or - a solid bar which allows the rudder to be thinner, but costs you in weight. Over time the balance wavered back and forth depending on supply and cost. (Forget what that designer guy wants) . . . . . Rob Ball. C&C 34 ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Rudder Shaft Material
Thanks all for your replies..i guess it will have to wait until spring as I am
426 miles away from boat now.
I have no idea why they ask, but they did. I will try to find out their
thinking and let you know. I assume it o.j.us weight but seems trivial.
I answered "hollow tube" and will correct if I find it is wrong...
Bill Walker
Bill Walker
On Friday, March 1, 2019 Rick Brass via CnC-List wrote:
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The original rudder stock for my 38 mkll was made from 3” schedule 80 stainless
tube (3 ¼” OD). I know from experience that the 38LF was built with either a
stock made from 3 ¼” OD bar stock, or from 3 ¼” Schedule 80 tube (3 ½” OD
IIRC). My replacement rudder was made using the stock from the 38LF that used
to be called Banana Wind. When he lost his rudder, South Shore made him a new
one, but used the wrong diameter rudder stock and had to supply a second rudder
with the other diameter stock.
So there are C&Cs out there with both solid and tube stocks.
The solid stock rudder has a machined head for mounting the emergency tiller.
On the stock made from tube stock, the machined head is a plug that is welded
to the top of the rudder shaft. Looking for the weld might be an easy way to
tell what material was used.
I guess my basic question for the group would be “Why does PHRF want to know in
the first place?” As far as I can recall, the solid bar stock used in my
replacement rudder was less than 100 pounds, and that was only 40 or 50 pounds
more than the weight of the old hollow tube. Would 50 pounds really make a
noticeable performance difference in a boat weighing 12-14,000 pounds?
Rick Brass
Washington, NC
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Whitmore via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, March 1, 2019 1:26 PM
To: Josh Muckley via CnC-List
Cc: Bruce Whitmore
Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder Shaft Material
Both of my C&Cs, a 27 MKIII and our current 37/40+ have solid shafts. I would
be shocked if it was not solid.
Bruce Whitmore
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
___
Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and
every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal
to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
___
Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and
every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal
to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Rudder Shaft Material
The original rudder stock for my 38 mkll was made from 3” schedule 80 stainless tube (3 ¼” OD). I know from experience that the 38LF was built with either a stock made from 3 ¼” OD bar stock, or from 3 ¼” Schedule 80 tube (3 ½” OD IIRC). My replacement rudder was made using the stock from the 38LF that used to be called Banana Wind. When he lost his rudder, South Shore made him a new one, but used the wrong diameter rudder stock and had to supply a second rudder with the other diameter stock. So there are C&Cs out there with both solid and tube stocks. The solid stock rudder has a machined head for mounting the emergency tiller. On the stock made from tube stock, the machined head is a plug that is welded to the top of the rudder shaft. Looking for the weld might be an easy way to tell what material was used. I guess my basic question for the group would be “Why does PHRF want to know in the first place?” As far as I can recall, the solid bar stock used in my replacement rudder was less than 100 pounds, and that was only 40 or 50 pounds more than the weight of the old hollow tube. Would 50 pounds really make a noticeable performance difference in a boat weighing 12-14,000 pounds? Rick Brass Washington, NC From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List Sent: Friday, March 1, 2019 1:26 PM To: Josh Muckley via CnC-List Cc: Bruce Whitmore Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder Shaft Material Both of my C&Cs, a 27 MKIII and our current 37/40+ have solid shafts. I would be shocked if it was not solid. Bruce Whitmore (847) 404-5092 (mobile) bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net <mailto:bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net> ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Rudder Shaft Material
I am, and there is a question specifically about shaft..
Bill
Bill Walker
On Friday, March 1, 2019 Pete Shelquist via CnC-List
wrote:
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Bill –
Are you applying online? Rudder type is on the form, but I don’t recall seeing
a question on the shaft
FWIW – my ’84 37 is solid and, assuming it’s original, would bet money yours is
too. With rudder shaft specs alone it’s such a minor impact that A) It
doesn’t justify asking the question and B) if you’re wrong it’s highly unlikely
phrf will dock you the -3 sec/mile.
If the whole rudder is not original, then I understand why phrf is asking more
questions. In that case the builder of the rudder should have more info.
From: CnC-List On Behalf Of WILLIAM WALKER via
CnC-List
Sent: Friday, March 1, 2019 11:57 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: WILLIAM WALKER
Subject: Stus-List Rudder Shaft Material
Lake Michigan PHRF is asking whether my rudder shaft is solid stainless or
hollow stainless. Any one know with sufficient confidence?
1981 C & C 36
Bill Walker
Bill Walker
___
Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and
every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal
to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
___
Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and
every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal
to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Rudder Shaft Material
Bill – Are you applying online? Rudder type is on the form, but I don’t recall seeing a question on the shaft FWIW – my ’84 37 is solid and, assuming it’s original, would bet money yours is too. With rudder shaft specs alone it’s such a minor impact that A) It doesn’t justify asking the question and B) if you’re wrong it’s highly unlikely phrf will dock you the -3 sec/mile. If the whole rudder is not original, then I understand why phrf is asking more questions. In that case the builder of the rudder should have more info. From: CnC-List On Behalf Of WILLIAM WALKER via CnC-List Sent: Friday, March 1, 2019 11:57 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: WILLIAM WALKER Subject: Stus-List Rudder Shaft Material Lake Michigan PHRF is asking whether my rudder shaft is solid stainless or hollow stainless. Any one know with sufficient confidence? 1981 C & C 36 Bill Walker Bill Walker ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Rudder Shaft Material
Why would solid vs hollow make a difference in PHRF? (not a racer...anymore) Richard s/v Bushmark4: 1985 C&C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 596; Richard N. Bush 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 502-584-7255 -Original Message- From: Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List To: Josh Muckley via CnC-List Cc: Bruce Whitmore Sent: Fri, Mar 1, 2019 1:26 pm Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder Shaft Material Both of my C&Cs, a 27 MKIII and our current 37/40+ have solid shafts. I would be shocked if it was not solid. Bruce Whitmore (847) 404-5092 (mobile) bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Rudder Shaft Material
I think the only way it would be solid, is if the previous owner had it made up aftermarket , and for some reason they put a solid shaft in. But that would be just crazy. Bill On Friday, March 1, 2019 WILLIAM WALKER via CnC-List wrote: Lake Michigan PHRF is asking whether my rudder shaft is solid stainless or hollow stainless. Any one know with sufficient confidence? 1981 C & C 36 Bill Walker Bill Walker ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Rudder Shaft Material
Both of my C&Cs, a 27 MKIII and our current 37/40+ have solid shafts. I would be shocked if it was not solid. Bruce Whitmore (847) 404-5092 (mobile) bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Rudder Shaft Material
Every hollow shaft I've seen appears as a pipe. Being that you can look down the end of it. If the ends are capped with welded covers then the welds are evident. It's also pretty common to have some type of bolt or rod extend through the shaft for a number of different purposes. If you can remove that bolt then it would be pretty easy to tell. If you have a typical Edson quadrant then it is probably keyed to the shaft. It would be unusual to me to see a key on a hollow tube. I have a high degree of confidence that based on the size of your boat and the design of my own C&C that your shaft is solid SS. I'm sure we can come up with some inquiries a d criteria for official shaft inspectors... Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C&C 37+ Solomons, MD On Fri, Mar 1, 2019, 12:58 PM WILLIAM WALKER via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Lake Michigan PHRF is asking whether my rudder shaft is solid stainless or > hollow stainless. Any one know with sufficient confidence? > 1981 C & C 36 > Bill Walker > > Bill Walker > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Stus-List Rudder Shaft Material
Lake Michigan PHRF is asking whether my rudder shaft is solid stainless or hollow stainless. Any one know with sufficient confidence? 1981 C & C 36 Bill Walker Bill Walker ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
