Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List]

He mentions 26ft as a cutoff in his narrative, but it's 12m in the literature.  
I'm presuming the 12m is correct for the single all around white light for 
motoring.
Ron
Wild Cheri


On Thu, 11/6/14, Edd Schillay via CnC-List  wrote:

 Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs
 To: "C&C List" 
 Date: Thursday, November 6, 2014, 10:19 AM
 
 See: http://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/Navigation-Light-Rules 
 
 
 
All the best,
Edd
 
Edd M. Schillay Starship
 Enterprise C&C 37+ | Sail No:
 NCC-1701-B City Island,
 NY Starship
 Enterprise's Captain's Log
 
 
 On Nov
 6, 2014, at 11:15 AM, wwadjo...@aol.com
 via CnC-List 
 wrote:
 
 I must disagree. Steaming light is
 forward facing white light located approximately 2/3 way up
 mast and showing 225 degrees forward only, lit along with
 running lights when motoring a sailing vessel.  It is not
 all around white masthead light.  my belief.Bill WalkerEvening StarCnV 36
 
 
 
 Sent from my HTC
 - Reply message -
 From: "Josh Muckley
 via CnC-List" 
 To: "C&C
 List" ,
 "Burt Stratton" 
 Subject: Stus-List
 Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs
 Date: Thu, Nov 6, 2014 11:07
 AM
 You got
 it.  Steaming=masthead.
 On Nov 6, 2014 11:06 AM, "Burt Stratton via
 CnC-List" 
 wrote:
 
 > Sorry for the rookie question but what is the steaming
 light?
 >
 >
 >
 > For sailboats I am aware of the deck bi-color, masthead
 and stern lights,
 > tri-color (which is mounted  on the mast and used as an
 alternate to the
 > deck mounted bi-color and stern lights, and the anchor
 light. Is "steaming
 > light" another term for masthead light?
 >
 >
 >
 > *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
 *On Behalf Of *Dave
 > Godwin via CnC-List
 > *Sent:* Thursday, November 06, 2014 10:49 AM
 > *To:* Andrew Burton; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved
 LED bulbs
 >
 >
 >
 > ... and I could could buy a bigger (C&C!) boat if I
 had a dollar for every
 > time I have seen the tri-color AND the ship's
 running lights on at night.
 > Here's another one that I found
 "amusing", sailboat under power, tri-color
 > light on, and the steaming light lit. Now there's
 an interesting lighting
 > configuration.
 >
 >
 >
 > Cheers,
 >
 >
 >
 > Dave Godwin
 > 1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
 > Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
 >
 > Ronin's Overdue Refit <http://roninrebuild.blogspot.com/>
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > On Nov 3, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List
 <
 > cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 wrote:
 >
 >
 >
 > Bob, a tricolor is indeed a substitute for deck level
 running lights. But
 > it may only be used while sailing. And it should never
 be used in addition
 > to deck level lights.
 >
 > Andy
 >
 > C&C 40
 >
 > Peregrine
 >
 >
 > Andrew Burton
 >
 > 61 W Narragansett
 >
 > Newport, RI
 >
 > USA02840
 >
 >
 >
 > http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
 >
 > +401 965-5260
 >
 >
 > On Nov 3, 2014, at 13:38, Robert Boyer via CnC-List
 
 > wrote:
 >
 > Joe:  it is my understanding that a masthead tricolor
 is not a substitute
 > for deck-level running lights--it can and should be
 used in addition.
 >
 >
 >
 > Bob
 >
 > Bob Boyer
 >
 > S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
 >
 > 1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
 >
 > email: dainyr...@icloud.com
 >
 > blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
 >
 >
 >
 > "There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so
 much worth doing as simply
 > messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame
 >
 > ___
 > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
 >
 > Email address:
 > CnC-List@cnc-list.com
 > To change your list preferences, including
 unsubscribing -- go bottom of
 > page at:
 > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
 >
 > ___
 > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
 >
 > Email address:
 > CnC-List@cnc-list.com
 > To change your list preferences, including
 unsubscribing -- go bottom of
 > page at:
 > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
 >
 >
 >
 > ___
 > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
 >
 > Email address:
 > CnC-List@cnc-list.com
 > To change your list preferences, including
 unsubscribing -- go bottom of
 > page at:
 > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
 >

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

It is more complex than that. 

 

A power driven vessel under 12 meters can use an all-around white light in lieu 
of masthead and stern. Over 12 but less than 50 meters it must have masthead 
and stern. Over 50 and it needs two masthead lights and a stern light. And 
various types of power driven vessels such as tugs and fishing boats or pilot 
boats cannot use an all-around white light as navigation lights regardless of 
being less than 12 meters.

 

The complexity is why it is a good idea to have a copy of the COLREGs, or at 
least one of the laminated cards you buy at West Marine, on your boat.

 

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek 
Dziedzic via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 11:56 AM
To: Burt Stratton; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

 

 

A power boat needs the same side lights and an all around white light.

 

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

A Masthead light is white and covers an arc of 225 degrees facing forward and 
is at least 2 meters above your navigation and stern lights. If you have a 
power driven vessel less than 12 meters, under rule 23 you can use an 
all-around white light instead of the masthead light and stern light.

 

A sailboat does not show a masthead light. That’s how you know it is a sailboat.

 

So on sailboats it is common to call it a steaming light (you only use it when 
under power – “steaming” ) but the proper term is masthead light.

 

An all-around white light at the top of the mast is shown when at anchor or 
aground, and commonly called an anchor light. It may also be used in various 
patterns (though usually not at the top of the mast) with other colored lights 
to designate the type of boat (Red over white, fishing tonight. Or Green over 
white, trawling tonight. Or red-white-red for restricted in ability to 
maneuver.)

 

See the COLREGS.

 

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
wwadjo...@aol.com via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 11:16 AM
To: Josh Muckley via CnC-List
Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

 

I must disagree. Steaming light is forward facing white light located 
approximately 2/3 way up mast and showing 225 degrees forward only, lit along 
with running lights when motoring a sailing vessel.  It is not all around white 
masthead light.  my belief.

Bill Walker

Evening Star

CnV 36

 

 

 

 

Sent from my HTC

 

- Reply message -
From: "Josh Muckley via CnC-List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
To: "C&C List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >, "Burt 
Stratton" mailto:bstrat...@falconnect.com> >
Subject: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs
Date: Thu, Nov 6, 2014 11:07 AM





You got it.  Steaming=masthead.
On Nov 6, 2014 11:06 AM, "Burt Stratton via CnC-List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
wrote:
 
> Sorry for the rookie question but what is the steaming light?
> 
> 
> 
> For sailboats I am aware of the deck bi-color, masthead and stern lights,
> tri-color (which is mounted  on the mast and used as an alternate to the
> deck mounted bi-color and stern lights, and the anchor light. Is "steaming
> light" another term for masthead light?
> 
> 
> 
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Dave
> Godwin via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 06, 2014 10:49 AM
> *To:* Andrew Burton; cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs
> 
> 
> 
> ... and I could could buy a bigger (C&C!) boat if I had a dollar for every
> time I have seen the tri-color AND the ship's running lights on at night.
> Here's another one that I found "amusing", sailboat under power, tri-color
> light on, and the steaming light lit. Now there's an interesting lighting
> configuration.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
> 
> Dave Godwin
> 1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
> Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
> 
> Ronin's Overdue Refit <http://roninrebuild.blogspot.com/>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 3, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Bob, a tricolor is indeed a substitute for deck level running lights. But
> it may only be used while sailing. And it should never be used in addition
> to deck level lights.
> 
> Andy
> 
> C&C 40
> 
> Peregrine
> 
> 
> Andrew Burton
> 
> 61 W Narragansett
> 
> Newport, RI
> 
> USA02840
> 
> 
> 
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> 
> +401 965-5260
> 
> 
> On Nov 3, 2014, at 13:38, Robert Boyer via CnC-List  <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
> wrote:
> 
> Joe:  it is my understanding that a masthead tricolor is not a substitute
> for deck-level running lights--it can and should be used in addition.
> 
> 
> 
> Bob
> 
> Bob Boyer
> 
> S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
> 
> 1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
> 
> email: dainyr...@icloud.com <mailto:dainyr...@icloud.com> 
> 
> blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> "There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply
> messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com <mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> 
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
> page at:
> http:

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Indigo via CnC-List]

Lengths of boats must be taken into consideration when discussing legality of 
lights. A power boat UNDER 12 m can use an allround white. Over 12m they must 
have a masthead (steaming light) and stern light.  It's nice to be able to 
identify the type and size of a vessel at night by observing the lights!

--
Jonathan
Indigo C&C 35III
SOUTHPORT CT

> On Nov 6, 2014, at 11:56, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> It is kind of funny how a “steaming light” can many people confused.
>  
> The main point is that a sailboat is a sailboat and boat under power, 
> depending on its current situation at the time (if the engine is running, it 
> is a power boat, if it is not running, it is a sailboat (the actual term is 
> “in use” (not “engine running”), but from what I read so far, if your engine 
> is running and you are simply out of gear, you would be still considered 
> “under power”)).
>  
> The lights configuration has to reflect what you are.
>  
> A sailboat (let’s not dwell on the length at this point) needs the side 
> lights (red and green) and the stern light (white).
>  
> A power boat needs the same side lights and an all around white light.
>  
> How you accomplish the above is up to you (or the boat manufacturer).
>  
> The most common approach is to have an extra “steaming light” that closes the 
> circle  - your stern light plus the steaming light provide full 360 degrees 
> white light. This way you have one switch to turn your sailing lights (side 
> and stern) and another one to turn the steaming light, when you turn on the 
> engine.
>  
> Another option is to have a full circle white light (e.g. on top of the mast) 
> and use your side and stern lights when sailing and the side lights and the 
> full circle white light when under power. This requires to have a separate 
> switch for your stern light (and of course one for the full circle light), 
> because if you use full circle light, you have to switch your stern light off.
>  
> You cannot repeat any prescribed light so, if you have tricolour on the top 
> of the mast, you cannot use the side (bow) lights or vice versa.
>  
> People who sail off shore tend to put a tricolour on the top of the mast for 
> a number of reasons. One is that it is only one bulb (instead of three). 
> Another is that, especially with some waves, the deck level lights are not 
> visible from afar. My personal experience is that you cannot see them from 
> more then two wavelength away. But you cannot use the tricolour AND the deck 
> level lights at the same time.
>  
> People who sail in-shore or in coastal water would say that a light at the 
> masthead is of no use, because nobody looks that high up. Even an anchor 
> light at the top of the mast might be too high on some anchorages.
>  
> Interestingly, the same discussion is (was) happening at the Sailboat Owners 
> Forum.
>  
> Marek
>  
> From: Burt Stratton via CnC-List
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 11:05 AM
> To: 'Dave Godwin' ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs
>  
> Sorry for the rookie question but what is the steaming light?
>  
> For sailboats I am aware of the deck bi-color, masthead and stern lights, 
> tri-color  (which is mounted  on the mast and used as an alternate to the 
> deck mounted bi-color and stern lights, and the anchor light. Is “steaming 
> light” another term for masthead light?
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave 
> Godwin via CnC-List
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 10:49 AM
> To: Andrew Burton; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs
>  
> … and I could could buy a bigger (C&C!) boat if I had a dollar for every time 
> I have seen the tri-color AND the ship’s running lights on at night. Here’s 
> another one that I found “amusing”, sailboat under power, tri-color light on, 
> and the steaming light lit. Now there’s an interesting lighting configuration.
>  
> Cheers,
>  
> Dave Godwin
> 1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
> Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
> Ronin’s Overdue Refit
>  
>  
>  
> On Nov 3, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
>  
> Bob, a tricolor is indeed a substitute for deck level running lights. But it 
> may only be used while sailing. And it should never be used in addition to 
> deck level lights.
> Andy
> C&C 40
> Peregrine
> 
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett
> Newport, RI
> USA02840
>  
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> +401 965-5260
> 
> On Nov 3, 2014, at 13:38, Robert Boyer via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Joe:  it is my und

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Dr. LED makes spreader lights with rail mounts which could be easily
mounted on a bow pulpit.  Defender sells them.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Ron Casciato via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Ed:  What’s the link for that “headlight”??:…..very nifty idea.
>
>
>
> Ron C.
>
>
>  --
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Edd
> Schillay via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 06, 2014 11:50 AM
> *To:* C&C List
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs
>
>
>
> Now this is a headlight —
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15162917/ENTERPRISE/headlight.jpg
>
>
>
> LED’s — highly recommended for those dark nights driving through a mooring
> field.
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
>
>
> Edd
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Ron Casciato via CnC-List]

Ed:  What's the link for that "headlight"??:...very nifty idea.

 

Ron C.

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Edd
Schillay via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 11:50 AM
To: C&C List
Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

 

Now this is a headlight -
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15162917/ENTERPRISE/headlight.jpg 

 

LED's - highly recommended for those dark nights driving through a mooring
field. 

 

All the best,

 

Edd

 

 

Edd M. Schillay

Starship Enterprise

C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B

City Island, NY 

Starship Enterprise's <http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/>
Captain's Log

 

On Nov 6, 2014, at 11:35 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List
 wrote:

 

Sorry, the vernacular is confusing.  Steaming is the "headlight" placed on
the mast.  Not the light on the masthead.  My OEM C&C panel has a switch
labelled "Headlight".  I have to remind myself that it is not "Head Light".

Josh

 

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

My only hold up with using my deck lights instead of the tri-color is that
my tri-color uplights my windex very nicely.

Josh
On Nov 6, 2014 12:30 PM, "Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>   Joel,
>
> this, actually, jives well with what I said about sailing in-shore. The
> same applies if you are sailing in close quarters. If you see the lights at
> the deck level, then there is no advantage in having them at the top of the
> mast. The opposite is true, as well. If you cannot see the deck lights, the
> top of the mast lights have an advantage.
>
> Marek
>
>  *From:* Joel Aronson 
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 06, 2014 12:17 PM
> *To:* Marek Dziedzic  ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs
>
>  Marek,
>
> one other difference:  I find it harder to judge the distance of others
> boats if they have a masthead light.  It only really matters when racing
> and I am on port - otherwise, I stay away.  AIS helps if the other boat is
> so equipped.
>
> Joel
>
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 11:56 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>>   It is kind of funny how a "steaming light" can many people confused.
>>
>> The main point is that a sailboat is a sailboat and boat under power,
>> depending on its current situation at the time (if the engine is running,
>> it is a power boat, if it is not running, it is a sailboat (the actual term
>> is "in use" (not "engine running"), but from what I read so far, if your
>> engine is running and you are simply out of gear, you would be still
>> considered "under power")).
>>
>> The lights configuration has to reflect what you are.
>>
>> A sailboat (let's not dwell on the length at this point) needs the side
>> lights (red and green) and the stern light (white).
>>
>> A power boat needs the same side lights and an all around white light.
>>
>> How you accomplish the above is up to you (or the boat manufacturer).
>>
>> The most common approach is to have an extra "steaming light" that closes
>> the circle  - your stern light plus the steaming light provide full 360
>> degrees white light. This way you have one switch to turn your sailing
>> lights (side and stern) and another one to turn the steaming light, when
>> you turn on the engine.
>>
>> Another option is to have a full circle white light (e.g. on top of the
>> mast) and use your side and stern lights when sailing and the side lights
>> and the full circle white light when under power. This requires to have a
>> separate switch for your stern light (and of course one for the full circle
>> light), because if you use full circle light, you have to switch your stern
>> light off.
>>
>> You cannot repeat any prescribed light so, if you have tricolour on the
>> top of the mast, you cannot use the side (bow) lights or vice versa.
>>
>> People who sail off shore tend to put a tricolour on the top of the mast
>> for a number of reasons. One is that it is only one bulb (instead of
>> three). Another is that, especially with some waves, the deck level lights
>> are not visible from afar. My personal experience is that you cannot see
>> them from more then two wavelength away. But you cannot use the tricolour
>> AND the deck level lights at the same time.
>>
>> People who sail in-shore or in coastal water would say that a light at
>> the masthead is of no use, because nobody looks that high up. Even an
>> anchor light at the top of the mast might be too high on some anchorages.
>>
>> Interestingly, the same discussion is (was) happening at the Sailboat
>> Owners Forum.
>>
>> Marek
>>
>>  *From:* Burt Stratton via CnC-List 
>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 06, 2014 11:05 AM
>> *To:* 'Dave Godwin'  ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs
>>
>>
>> Sorry for the rookie question but what is the steaming light?
>>
>>
>>
>> For sailboats I am aware of the deck bi-color, masthead and stern lights,
>> tri-color (which is mounted  on the mast and used as an alternate to the
>> deck mounted bi-color and stern lights, and the anchor light. Is "steaming
>> light" another term for masthead light?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Dave
>> Godwin via CnC-List
>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 06, 2014 10:49 AM
>> *To:* Andrew Burton; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> *

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Joel,

this, actually, jives well with what I said about sailing in-shore. The same 
applies if you are sailing in close quarters. If you see the lights at the deck 
level, then there is no advantage in having them at the top of the mast. The 
opposite is true, as well. If you cannot see the deck lights, the top of the 
mast lights have an advantage.

Marek

From: Joel Aronson 
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 12:17 PM
To: Marek Dziedzic ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

Marek, 

one other difference:  I find it harder to judge the distance of others boats 
if they have a masthead light.  It only really matters when racing and I am on 
port​ - otherwise, I stay away.  AIS helps if the other boat is so equipped.

Joel

On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 11:56 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
 wrote:

  It is kind of funny how a “steaming light” can many people confused.

  The main point is that a sailboat is a sailboat and boat under power, 
depending on its current situation at the time (if the engine is running, it is 
a power boat, if it is not running, it is a sailboat (the actual term is “in 
use” (not “engine running”), but from what I read so far, if your engine is 
running and you are simply out of gear, you would be still considered “under 
power”)).

  The lights configuration has to reflect what you are.

  A sailboat (let’s not dwell on the length at this point) needs the side 
lights (red and green) and the stern light (white).

  A power boat needs the same side lights and an all around white light.

  How you accomplish the above is up to you (or the boat manufacturer). 

  The most common approach is to have an extra “steaming light” that closes the 
circle  - your stern light plus the steaming light provide full 360 degrees 
white light. This way you have one switch to turn your sailing lights (side and 
stern) and another one to turn the steaming light, when you turn on the engine.

  Another option is to have a full circle white light (e.g. on top of the mast) 
and use your side and stern lights when sailing and the side lights and the 
full circle white light when under power. This requires to have a separate 
switch for your stern light (and of course one for the full circle light), 
because if you use full circle light, you have to switch your stern light off.

  You cannot repeat any prescribed light so, if you have tricolour on the top 
of the mast, you cannot use the side (bow) lights or vice versa.

  People who sail off shore tend to put a tricolour on the top of the mast for 
a number of reasons. One is that it is only one bulb (instead of three). 
Another is that, especially with some waves, the deck level lights are not 
visible from afar. My personal experience is that you cannot see them from more 
then two wavelength away. But you cannot use the tricolour AND the deck level 
lights at the same time.

  People who sail in-shore or in coastal water would say that a light at the 
masthead is of no use, because nobody looks that high up. Even an anchor light 
at the top of the mast might be too high on some anchorages.

  Interestingly, the same discussion is (was) happening at the Sailboat Owners 
Forum.

  Marek

  From: Burt Stratton via CnC-List 
  Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 11:05 AM
  To: 'Dave Godwin' ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

  Sorry for the rookie question but what is the steaming light?



  For sailboats I am aware of the deck bi-color, masthead and stern lights, 
tri-color (which is mounted  on the mast and used as an alternate to the deck 
mounted bi-color and stern lights, and the anchor light. Is “steaming light” 
another term for masthead light?



  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave 
Godwin via CnC-List
  Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 10:49 AM
  To: Andrew Burton; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs



  … and I could could buy a bigger (C&C!) boat if I had a dollar for every time 
I have seen the tri-color AND the ship’s running lights on at night. Here’s 
another one that I found “amusing”, sailboat under power, tri-color light on, 
and the steaming light lit. Now there’s an interesting lighting configuration.



  Cheers,



  Dave Godwin
  1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
  Reedville - Chesapeake Bay

  Ronin’s Overdue Refit







On Nov 3, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List 
 wrote:



Bob, a tricolor is indeed a substitute for deck level running lights. But 
it may only be used while sailing. And it should never be used in addition to 
deck level lights.

Andy

C&C 40

Peregrine


Andrew Burton

61 W Narragansett

Newport, RI 

USA02840



http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/

+401 965-5260


On Nov 3, 2014, at 13:38, Robert Boyer via CnC-List  
wrote:

  Joe:

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Marek,

one other difference:  I find it harder to judge the distance of others
boats if they have a masthead light.  It only really matters when racing
and I am on port​ - otherwise, I stay away.  AIS helps if the other boat is
so equipped.

Joel

On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 11:56 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>   It is kind of funny how a “steaming light” can many people confused.
>
> The main point is that a sailboat is a sailboat and boat under power,
> depending on its current situation at the time (if the engine is running,
> it is a power boat, if it is not running, it is a sailboat (the actual term
> is “in use” (not “engine running”), but from what I read so far, if your
> engine is running and you are simply out of gear, you would be still
> considered “under power”)).
>
> The lights configuration has to reflect what you are.
>
> A sailboat (let’s not dwell on the length at this point) needs the side
> lights (red and green) and the stern light (white).
>
> A power boat needs the same side lights and an all around white light.
>
> How you accomplish the above is up to you (or the boat manufacturer).
>
> The most common approach is to have an extra “steaming light” that closes
> the circle  - your stern light plus the steaming light provide full 360
> degrees white light. This way you have one switch to turn your sailing
> lights (side and stern) and another one to turn the steaming light, when
> you turn on the engine.
>
> Another option is to have a full circle white light (e.g. on top of the
> mast) and use your side and stern lights when sailing and the side lights
> and the full circle white light when under power. This requires to have a
> separate switch for your stern light (and of course one for the full circle
> light), because if you use full circle light, you have to switch your stern
> light off.
>
> You cannot repeat any prescribed light so, if you have tricolour on the
> top of the mast, you cannot use the side (bow) lights or vice versa.
>
> People who sail off shore tend to put a tricolour on the top of the mast
> for a number of reasons. One is that it is only one bulb (instead of
> three). Another is that, especially with some waves, the deck level lights
> are not visible from afar. My personal experience is that you cannot see
> them from more then two wavelength away. But you cannot use the tricolour
> AND the deck level lights at the same time.
>
> People who sail in-shore or in coastal water would say that a light at the
> masthead is of no use, because nobody looks that high up. Even an anchor
> light at the top of the mast might be too high on some anchorages.
>
> Interestingly, the same discussion is (was) happening at the Sailboat
> Owners Forum.
>
> Marek
>
>  *From:* Burt Stratton via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 06, 2014 11:05 AM
> *To:* 'Dave Godwin'  ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs
>
>
> Sorry for the rookie question but what is the steaming light?
>
>
>
> For sailboats I am aware of the deck bi-color, masthead and stern lights,
> tri-color (which is mounted  on the mast and used as an alternate to the
> deck mounted bi-color and stern lights, and the anchor light. Is “steaming
> light” another term for masthead light?
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Dave
> Godwin via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 06, 2014 10:49 AM
> *To:* Andrew Burton; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs
>
>
>
> … and I could could buy a bigger (C&C!) boat if I had a dollar for every
> time I have seen the tri-color AND the ship’s running lights on at night.
> Here’s another one that I found “amusing”, sailboat under power, tri-color
> light on, and the steaming light lit. Now there’s an interesting lighting
> configuration.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Dave Godwin
> 1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
> Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
>
> Ronin’s Overdue Refit <http://roninrebuild.blogspot.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  On Nov 3, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Bob, a tricolor is indeed a substitute for deck level running lights. But
> it may only be used while sailing. And it should never be used in addition
> to deck level lights.
>
> Andy
>
> C&C 40
>
> Peregrine
>
>
> Andrew Burton
>
> 61 W Narragansett
>
> Newport, RI
>
> USA02840
>
>
>
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
>
> +401 965-5260
>
>
> On Nov 3, 2014, at 

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Burt Stratton via CnC-List]

I guess it was the mast head term that had me confused at first but a quick bit 
of research shows that the 225 degree forward facing light 2/3 of the way up 
the mast is indeed referred to as the mast head light (where we put the spaces 
notwithstanding). I thought that was the light at the mast head but no that is 
the anchor light. I was down with all that but then saw the steaming light term 
and thus the question. It all makes sense to me now and frankly “steaming 
light” makes more sense. It is only used when steaming and it is not at the 
head of the mast. Sorry to start back up a conversation that has undoubtedly 
been had many times before. Thanks for the education  

 

From: Marek Dziedzic [mailto:dziedzi...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 11:56 AM
To: Burt Stratton; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

 

It is kind of funny how a “steaming light” can many people confused.

 

The main point is that a sailboat is a sailboat and boat under power, depending 
on its current situation at the time (if the engine is running, it is a power 
boat, if it is not running, it is a sailboat (the actual term is “in use” (not 
“engine running”), but from what I read so far, if your engine is running and 
you are simply out of gear, you would be still considered “under power”)).

 

The lights configuration has to reflect what you are.

 

A sailboat (let’s not dwell on the length at this point) needs the side lights 
(red and green) and the stern light (white).

 

A power boat needs the same side lights and an all around white light.

 

How you accomplish the above is up to you (or the boat manufacturer). 

 

The most common approach is to have an extra “steaming light” that closes the 
circle  - your stern light plus the steaming light provide full 360 degrees 
white light. This way you have one switch to turn your sailing lights (side and 
stern) and another one to turn the steaming light, when you turn on the engine.

 

Another option is to have a full circle white light (e.g. on top of the mast) 
and use your side and stern lights when sailing and the side lights and the 
full circle white light when under power. This requires to have a separate 
switch for your stern light (and of course one for the full circle light), 
because if you use full circle light, you have to switch your stern light off.

 

You cannot repeat any prescribed light so, if you have tricolour on the top of 
the mast, you cannot use the side (bow) lights or vice versa.

 

People who sail off shore tend to put a tricolour on the top of the mast for a 
number of reasons. One is that it is only one bulb (instead of three). Another 
is that, especially with some waves, the deck level lights are not visible from 
afar. My personal experience is that you cannot see them from more then two 
wavelength away. But you cannot use the tricolour AND the deck level lights at 
the same time.

 

People who sail in-shore or in coastal water would say that a light at the 
masthead is of no use, because nobody looks that high up. Even an anchor light 
at the top of the mast might be too high on some anchorages.

 

Interestingly, the same discussion is (was) happening at the Sailboat Owners 
Forum.

 

Marek

 

From: Burt Stratton via CnC-List <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>  

Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 11:05 AM

To: 'Dave Godwin' <mailto:dave.god...@me.com>  ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com 

Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

 

Sorry for the rookie question but what is the steaming light?

 

For sailboats I am aware of the deck bi-color, masthead and stern lights, 
tri-color (which is mounted  on the mast and used as an alternate to the deck 
mounted bi-color and stern lights, and the anchor light. Is “steaming light” 
another term for masthead light?

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave Godwin 
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 10:49 AM
To: Andrew Burton; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

 

… and I could could buy a bigger (C&C!) boat if I had a dollar for every time I 
have seen the tri-color AND the ship’s running lights on at night. Here’s 
another one that I found “amusing”, sailboat under power, tri-color light on, 
and the steaming light lit. Now there’s an interesting lighting configuration.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave Godwin
1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay

Ronin’s Overdue Refit <http://roninrebuild.blogspot.com/> 

 

 

 

On Nov 3, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List  
wrote:

 

Bob, a tricolor is indeed a substitute for deck level running lights. But it 
may only be used while sailing. And it should never be used in addition to deck 
level lights.

Andy

C&C 40

Peregrine


Andrew Burton

61 W Narragansett

Newport, RI 

USA02840

 

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyach

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

It is kind of funny how a “steaming light” can many people confused.

The main point is that a sailboat is a sailboat and boat under power, depending 
on its current situation at the time (if the engine is running, it is a power 
boat, if it is not running, it is a sailboat (the actual term is “in use” (not 
“engine running”), but from what I read so far, if your engine is running and 
you are simply out of gear, you would be still considered “under power”)).

The lights configuration has to reflect what you are.

A sailboat (let’s not dwell on the length at this point) needs the side lights 
(red and green) and the stern light (white).

A power boat needs the same side lights and an all around white light.

How you accomplish the above is up to you (or the boat manufacturer). 

The most common approach is to have an extra “steaming light” that closes the 
circle  - your stern light plus the steaming light provide full 360 degrees 
white light. This way you have one switch to turn your sailing lights (side and 
stern) and another one to turn the steaming light, when you turn on the engine.

Another option is to have a full circle white light (e.g. on top of the mast) 
and use your side and stern lights when sailing and the side lights and the 
full circle white light when under power. This requires to have a separate 
switch for your stern light (and of course one for the full circle light), 
because if you use full circle light, you have to switch your stern light off.

You cannot repeat any prescribed light so, if you have tricolour on the top of 
the mast, you cannot use the side (bow) lights or vice versa.

People who sail off shore tend to put a tricolour on the top of the mast for a 
number of reasons. One is that it is only one bulb (instead of three). Another 
is that, especially with some waves, the deck level lights are not visible from 
afar. My personal experience is that you cannot see them from more then two 
wavelength away. But you cannot use the tricolour AND the deck level lights at 
the same time.

People who sail in-shore or in coastal water would say that a light at the 
masthead is of no use, because nobody looks that high up. Even an anchor light 
at the top of the mast might be too high on some anchorages.

Interestingly, the same discussion is (was) happening at the Sailboat Owners 
Forum.

Marek

From: Burt Stratton via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 11:05 AM
To: 'Dave Godwin' ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

Sorry for the rookie question but what is the steaming light?

 

For sailboats I am aware of the deck bi-color, masthead and stern lights, 
tri-color (which is mounted  on the mast and used as an alternate to the deck 
mounted bi-color and stern lights, and the anchor light. Is “steaming light” 
another term for masthead light?

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave Godwin 
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 10:49 AM
To: Andrew Burton; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

 

… and I could could buy a bigger (C&C!) boat if I had a dollar for every time I 
have seen the tri-color AND the ship’s running lights on at night. Here’s 
another one that I found “amusing”, sailboat under power, tri-color light on, 
and the steaming light lit. Now there’s an interesting lighting configuration.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave Godwin
1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay

Ronin’s Overdue Refit

 

 

 

  On Nov 3, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List 
 wrote:

   

  Bob, a tricolor is indeed a substitute for deck level running lights. But it 
may only be used while sailing. And it should never be used in addition to deck 
level lights.

  Andy

  C&C 40

  Peregrine


  Andrew Burton

  61 W Narragansett

  Newport, RI 

  USA02840

   

  http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/

  +401 965-5260


  On Nov 3, 2014, at 13:38, Robert Boyer via CnC-List  
wrote:

Joe:  it is my understanding that a masthead tricolor is not a substitute 
for deck-level running lights--it can and should be used in addition.

 

Bob

Bob Boyer

S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD

1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230

email: dainyr...@icloud.com 

blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com

 

"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply 
messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

  ___
  This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

  Email address:
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com
  To change your list

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Now this is a headlight — 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15162917/ENTERPRISE/headlight.jpg 

LED’s — highly recommended for those dark nights driving through a mooring 
field. 


All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
> On Nov 6, 2014, at 11:35 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Sorry, the vernacular is confusing.  Steaming is the "headlight" placed on 
> the mast.  Not the light on the masthead.  My OEM C&C panel has a switch 
> labelled "Headlight".  I have to remind myself that it is not "Head Light".
> 
> Josh
> 

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Right, mast "headlight" not "masthead" light.  Sorry for all the confusion.
On Nov 6, 2014 11:38 AM, "Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>  Well, not exactly. The steaming light is not at the top of the mast. It
> is somewhere in the vicinity of the first set of spreaders. It is not at
> the mast HEAD. It is a mast headlight.
>
> Bill Bina
>  On 11/6/2014 11:07 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List wrote:
>
> You got it.  Steaming=masthead.
> On Nov 6, 2014 11:06 AM, "Burt Stratton via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>>  Sorry for the rookie question but what is the steaming light?
>>
>>
>>
>> For sailboats I am aware of the deck bi-color, masthead and stern lights,
>> tri-color (which is mounted  on the mast and used as an alternate to the
>> deck mounted bi-color and stern lights, and the anchor light. Is "steaming
>> light" another term for masthead light?
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
> page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List]

Well, not exactly. The steaming light is not at the top of the mast. It 
is somewhere in the vicinity of the first set of spreaders. It is not at 
the mast HEAD. It is a mast headlight.


Bill Bina
On 11/6/2014 11:07 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List wrote:


You got it.  Steaming=masthead.

On Nov 6, 2014 11:06 AM, "Burt Stratton via CnC-List" 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Sorry for the rookie question but what is the steaming light?

For sailboats I am aware of the deck bi-color, masthead and stern
lights, tri-color (which is mounted  on the mast and used as an
alternate to the deck mounted bi-color and stern lights, and the
anchor light. Is "steaming light" another term for masthead light?




___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Sorry, the vernacular is confusing.  Steaming is the "headlight" placed on
the mast.  Not the light on the masthead.  My OEM C&C panel has a switch
labelled "Headlight".  I have to remind myself that it is not "Head Light".

Josh
On Nov 6, 2014 11:18 AM, "wwadjo...@aol.com"  wrote:

>  I must disagree. Steaming light is forward facing white light located
> approximately 2/3 way up mast and showing 225 degrees forward only, lit
> along with running lights when motoring a sailing vessel.  It is not all
> around white masthead light.  my belief.
> Bill Walker
> Evening Star
> CnV 36
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my HTC
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Josh Muckley via CnC-List" 
> To: "C&C List" , "Burt Stratton" <
> bstrat...@falconnect.com>
> Subject: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs
> Date: Thu, Nov 6, 2014 11:07 AM
>
> You got it.  Steaming=masthead.
> On Nov 6, 2014 11:06 AM, "Burt Stratton via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
>
> > Sorry for the rookie question but what is the steaming light?
> >
> >
> >
> > For sailboats I am aware of the deck bi-color, masthead and stern lights,
> > tri-color (which is mounted  on the mast and used as an alternate to the
> > deck mounted bi-color and stern lights, and the anchor light. Is "steaming
> > light" another term for masthead light?
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Dave
> > Godwin via CnC-List
> > *Sent:* Thursday, November 06, 2014 10:49 AM
> > *To:* Andrew Burton; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs
> >
> >
> >
> > ... and I could could buy a bigger (C&C!) boat if I had a dollar for every
> > time I have seen the tri-color AND the ship's running lights on at night.
> > Here's another one that I found "amusing", sailboat under power, tri-color
> > light on, and the steaming light lit. Now there's an interesting lighting
> > configuration.
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> >
> >
> > Dave Godwin
> > 1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
> > Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
> >
> > Ronin's Overdue Refit <http://roninrebuild.blogspot.com/>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Nov 3, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List <
> > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Bob, a tricolor is indeed a substitute for deck level running lights. But
> > it may only be used while sailing. And it should never be used in addition
> > to deck level lights.
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > C&C 40
> >
> > Peregrine
> >
> >
> > Andrew Burton
> >
> > 61 W Narragansett
> >
> > Newport, RI
> >
> > USA02840
> >
> >
> >
> > http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> >
> > +401 965-5260
> >
> >
> > On Nov 3, 2014, at 13:38, Robert Boyer via CnC-List 
> > wrote:
> >
> > Joe:  it is my understanding that a masthead tricolor is not a substitute
> > for deck-level running lights--it can and should be used in addition.
> >
> >
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > Bob Boyer
> >
> > S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
> >
> > 1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
> >
> > email: dainyr...@icloud.com
> >
> > blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> >
> > "There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply
> > messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame
> >
> > ___
> > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> >
> > Email address:
> > CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
> > page at:
> > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> >
> > ___
> > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> >
> > Email address:
> > CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
> > page at:
> > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> >
> > Email address:
> > CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
> > page at:
> > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
> page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Tim Sippel via CnC-List]

I agree, White all around mast head light is Anchor .



Tim


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
wwadjo...@aol.com via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 11:16 AM
To: Josh Muckley via CnC-List
Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

I must disagree. Steaming light is forward facing white light located 
approximately 2/3 way up mast and showing 225 degrees forward only, lit along 
with running lights when motoring a sailing vessel.  It is not all around white 
masthead light.  my belief.
Bill Walker
Evening Star
CnV 36




Sent from my HTC

- Reply message -
From: "Josh Muckley via CnC-List" 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
To: "C&C List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>, "Burt 
Stratton" mailto:bstrat...@falconnect.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs
Date: Thu, Nov 6, 2014 11:07 AM



You got it.  Steaming=masthead.

On Nov 6, 2014 11:06 AM, "Burt Stratton via CnC-List" 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>

wrote:



> Sorry for the rookie question but what is the steaming light?

>

>

>

> For sailboats I am aware of the deck bi-color, masthead and stern lights,

> tri-color (which is mounted  on the mast and used as an alternate to the

> deck mounted bi-color and stern lights, and the anchor light. Is "steaming

> light" another term for masthead light?

>

>

>

> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Dave

> Godwin via CnC-List

> *Sent:* Thursday, November 06, 2014 10:49 AM

> *To:* Andrew Burton; cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>

> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

>

>

>

> ... and I could could buy a bigger (C&C!) boat if I had a dollar for every

> time I have seen the tri-color AND the ship's running lights on at night.

> Here's another one that I found "amusing", sailboat under power, tri-color

> light on, and the steaming light lit. Now there's an interesting lighting

> configuration.

>

>

>

> Cheers,

>

>

>

> Dave Godwin

> 1982 C&C 37 - Ronin

> Reedville - Chesapeake Bay

>

> Ronin's Overdue Refit <http://roninrebuild.blogspot.com/>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> On Nov 3, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List <

> cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

>

>

>

> Bob, a tricolor is indeed a substitute for deck level running lights. But

> it may only be used while sailing. And it should never be used in addition

> to deck level lights.

>

> Andy

>

> C&C 40

>

> Peregrine

>

>

> Andrew Burton

>

> 61 W Narragansett

>

> Newport, RI

>

> USA02840

>

>

>

> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/

>

> +401 965-5260

>

>

> On Nov 3, 2014, at 13:38, Robert Boyer via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>

> wrote:

>

> Joe:  it is my understanding that a masthead tricolor is not a substitute

> for deck-level running lights--it can and should be used in addition.

>

>

>

> Bob

>

> Bob Boyer

>

> S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD

>

> 1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230

>

> email: dainyr...@icloud.com<mailto:dainyr...@icloud.com>

>

> blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com

>

>

>

> "There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply

> messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame

>

> ___

> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

>

> Email address:

> CnC-List@cnc-list.com<mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>

> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of

> page at:

> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

>

> ___

> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

>

> Email address:

> CnC-List@cnc-list.com<mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>

> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of

> page at:

> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

>

>

>

> ___

> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

>

> Email address:

> CnC-List@cnc-list.com<mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>

> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of

> page at:

> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

>

>

>





This communication is confidential. We only send and rece

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

See: http://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/Navigation-Light-Rules 


All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log <http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/>
> On Nov 6, 2014, at 11:15 AM, wwadjo...@aol.com via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I must disagree. Steaming light is forward facing white light located 
> approximately 2/3 way up mast and showing 225 degrees forward only, lit along 
> with running lights when motoring a sailing vessel.  It is not all around 
> white masthead light.  my belief.
> Bill Walker
> Evening Star
> CnV 36
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my HTC
> 
> - Reply message -
> From: "Josh Muckley via CnC-List" 
> To: "C&C List" , "Burt Stratton" 
> 
> Subject: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs
> Date: Thu, Nov 6, 2014 11:07 AM
> 
> You got it.  Steaming=masthead.
> On Nov 6, 2014 11:06 AM, "Burt Stratton via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
> 
> > Sorry for the rookie question but what is the steaming light?
> >
> >
> >
> > For sailboats I am aware of the deck bi-color, masthead and stern lights,
> > tri-color (which is mounted  on the mast and used as an alternate to the
> > deck mounted bi-color and stern lights, and the anchor light. Is "steaming
> > light" another term for masthead light?
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Dave
> > Godwin via CnC-List
> > *Sent:* Thursday, November 06, 2014 10:49 AM
> > *To:* Andrew Burton; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs
> >
> >
> >
> > ... and I could could buy a bigger (C&C!) boat if I had a dollar for every
> > time I have seen the tri-color AND the ship's running lights on at night.
> > Here's another one that I found "amusing", sailboat under power, tri-color
> > light on, and the steaming light lit. Now there's an interesting lighting
> > configuration.
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> >
> >
> > Dave Godwin
> > 1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
> > Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
> >
> > Ronin's Overdue Refit <http://roninrebuild.blogspot.com/ 
> > <http://roninrebuild.blogspot.com/>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Nov 3, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List <
> > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Bob, a tricolor is indeed a substitute for deck level running lights. But
> > it may only be used while sailing. And it should never be used in addition
> > to deck level lights.
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > C&C 40
> >
> > Peregrine
> >
> >
> > Andrew Burton
> >
> > 61 W Narragansett
> >
> > Newport, RI
> >
> > USA02840
> >
> >
> >
> > http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ 
> > <http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/>
> >
> > +401 965-5260
> >
> >
> > On Nov 3, 2014, at 13:38, Robert Boyer via CnC-List 
> > wrote:
> >
> > Joe:  it is my understanding that a masthead tricolor is not a substitute
> > for deck-level running lights--it can and should be used in addition.
> >
> >
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > Bob Boyer
> >
> > S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
> >
> > 1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
> >
> > email: dainyr...@icloud.com
> >
> > blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> >
> > "There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply
> > messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame
> >
> > ___
> > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> >
> > Email address:
> > CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
> > page at:
> > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com 
> > <http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com>
> >
> > ___
> > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> >
> > Email address:
> > CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
> > page at:
> > http://cnc-list

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[wwadjourn]

I must disagree. Steaming light is forward facing white light located 
approximately 2/3 way up mast and showing 225 degrees forward only, lit along 
with running lights when motoring a sailing vessel.  It is not all around white 
masthead light.  my belief.
Bill Walker
Evening Star
CnV 36




Sent from my HTC

- Reply message -
From: "Josh Muckley via CnC-List" 
To: "C&C List" , "Burt Stratton" 

Subject: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs
Date: Thu, Nov 6, 2014 11:07 AM

You got it.  Steaming=masthead.
On Nov 6, 2014 11:06 AM, "Burt Stratton via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Sorry for the rookie question but what is the steaming light?
>
>
>
> For sailboats I am aware of the deck bi-color, masthead and stern lights,
> tri-color (which is mounted  on the mast and used as an alternate to the
> deck mounted bi-color and stern lights, and the anchor light. Is "steaming
> light" another term for masthead light?
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Dave
> Godwin via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 06, 2014 10:49 AM
> *To:* Andrew Burton; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs
>
>
>
> ... and I could could buy a bigger (C&C!) boat if I had a dollar for every
> time I have seen the tri-color AND the ship's running lights on at night.
> Here's another one that I found "amusing", sailboat under power, tri-color
> light on, and the steaming light lit. Now there's an interesting lighting
> configuration.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Dave Godwin
> 1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
> Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
>
> Ronin's Overdue Refit <http://roninrebuild.blogspot.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 3, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Bob, a tricolor is indeed a substitute for deck level running lights. But
> it may only be used while sailing. And it should never be used in addition
> to deck level lights.
>
> Andy
>
> C&C 40
>
> Peregrine
>
>
> Andrew Burton
>
> 61 W Narragansett
>
> Newport, RI
>
> USA02840
>
>
>
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
>
> +401 965-5260
>
>
> On Nov 3, 2014, at 13:38, Robert Boyer via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
> Joe:  it is my understanding that a masthead tricolor is not a substitute
> for deck-level running lights--it can and should be used in addition.
>
>
>
> Bob
>
> Bob Boyer
>
> S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
>
> 1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
>
> email: dainyr...@icloud.com
>
> blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> "There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply
> messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
> page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
> page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
> page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Actually, steaming light is a white light with a 225 degree viewing angle
often mounted on the front of the mast:

http://www.go2marine.com/item/98972/perko-steaming-light-vertical-mount-12-volt-1331dp0chr.html


Joel
35/3
Annapolis

On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> You got it.  Steaming=masthead.
> On Nov 6, 2014 11:06 AM, "Burt Stratton via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Sorry for the rookie question but what is the steaming light?
>>
>>
>>
>> For sailboats I am aware of the deck bi-color, masthead and stern lights,
>> tri-color (which is mounted  on the mast and used as an alternate to the
>> deck mounted bi-color and stern lights, and the anchor light. Is “steaming
>> light” another term for masthead light?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Dave
>> Godwin via CnC-List
>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 06, 2014 10:49 AM
>> *To:* Andrew Burton; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs
>>
>>
>>
>> … and I could could buy a bigger (C&C!) boat if I had a dollar for every
>> time I have seen the tri-color AND the ship’s running lights on at night.
>> Here’s another one that I found “amusing”, sailboat under power, tri-color
>> light on, and the steaming light lit. Now there’s an interesting lighting
>> configuration.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>>
>> Dave Godwin
>> 1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
>> Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
>>
>> Ronin’s Overdue Refit <http://roninrebuild.blogspot.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 3, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob, a tricolor is indeed a substitute for deck level running lights. But
>> it may only be used while sailing. And it should never be used in addition
>> to deck level lights.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> C&C 40
>>
>> Peregrine
>>
>>
>> Andrew Burton
>>
>> 61 W Narragansett
>>
>> Newport, RI
>>
>> USA02840
>>
>>
>>
>> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
>>
>> +401 965-5260
>>
>>
>> On Nov 3, 2014, at 13:38, Robert Boyer via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> Joe:  it is my understanding that a masthead tricolor is not a substitute
>> for deck-level running lights--it can and should be used in addition.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> Bob Boyer
>>
>> S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
>>
>> 1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
>>
>> email: dainyr...@icloud.com
>>
>> blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
>>
>>
>>
>> "There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply
>> messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame
>>
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>>
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
>> page at:
>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>>
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>>
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
>> page at:
>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>>
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
>> page at:
>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>>
>>
>>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
> page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

You got it.  Steaming=masthead.
On Nov 6, 2014 11:06 AM, "Burt Stratton via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Sorry for the rookie question but what is the steaming light?
>
>
>
> For sailboats I am aware of the deck bi-color, masthead and stern lights,
> tri-color (which is mounted  on the mast and used as an alternate to the
> deck mounted bi-color and stern lights, and the anchor light. Is "steaming
> light" another term for masthead light?
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Dave
> Godwin via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 06, 2014 10:49 AM
> *To:* Andrew Burton; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs
>
>
>
> ... and I could could buy a bigger (C&C!) boat if I had a dollar for every
> time I have seen the tri-color AND the ship's running lights on at night.
> Here's another one that I found "amusing", sailboat under power, tri-color
> light on, and the steaming light lit. Now there's an interesting lighting
> configuration.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Dave Godwin
> 1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
> Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
>
> Ronin's Overdue Refit <http://roninrebuild.blogspot.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 3, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Bob, a tricolor is indeed a substitute for deck level running lights. But
> it may only be used while sailing. And it should never be used in addition
> to deck level lights.
>
> Andy
>
> C&C 40
>
> Peregrine
>
>
> Andrew Burton
>
> 61 W Narragansett
>
> Newport, RI
>
> USA02840
>
>
>
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
>
> +401 965-5260
>
>
> On Nov 3, 2014, at 13:38, Robert Boyer via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
> Joe:  it is my understanding that a masthead tricolor is not a substitute
> for deck-level running lights--it can and should be used in addition.
>
>
>
> Bob
>
> Bob Boyer
>
> S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
>
> 1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
>
> email: dainyr...@icloud.com
>
> blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> "There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply
> messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
> page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
> page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
> page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Burt Stratton via CnC-List]

Sorry for the rookie question but what is the steaming light?

 

For sailboats I am aware of the deck bi-color, masthead and stern lights, 
tri-color (which is mounted  on the mast and used as an alternate to the deck 
mounted bi-color and stern lights, and the anchor light. Is “steaming light” 
another term for masthead light?

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave Godwin 
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 10:49 AM
To: Andrew Burton; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

 

… and I could could buy a bigger (C&C!) boat if I had a dollar for every time I 
have seen the tri-color AND the ship’s running lights on at night. Here’s 
another one that I found “amusing”, sailboat under power, tri-color light on, 
and the steaming light lit. Now there’s an interesting lighting configuration.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave Godwin
1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay

Ronin’s Overdue Refit <http://roninrebuild.blogspot.com/> 

 

 

 

On Nov 3, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List  
wrote:

 

Bob, a tricolor is indeed a substitute for deck level running lights. But it 
may only be used while sailing. And it should never be used in addition to deck 
level lights.

Andy

C&C 40

Peregrine


Andrew Burton

61 W Narragansett

Newport, RI 

USA02840

 

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/

+401 965-5260


On Nov 3, 2014, at 13:38, Robert Boyer via CnC-List  
wrote:

Joe:  it is my understanding that a masthead tricolor is not a substitute for 
deck-level running lights--it can and should be used in addition.

 

Bob

Bob Boyer

S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD

1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230

email: dainyr...@icloud.com 

blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com <http://dainyrays.blogspot.com/> 

 

"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply 
messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

 

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Dave Godwin via CnC-List]

… and I could could buy a bigger (C&C!) boat if I had a dollar for every time I 
have seen the tri-color AND the ship’s running lights on at night. Here’s 
another one that I found “amusing”, sailboat under power, tri-color light on, 
and the steaming light lit. Now there’s an interesting lighting configuration.

Cheers,

Dave Godwin
1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
Ronin’s Overdue Refit 



> On Nov 3, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Bob, a tricolor is indeed a substitute for deck level running lights. But it 
> may only be used while sailing. And it should never be used in addition to 
> deck level lights.
> Andy
> C&C 40
> Peregrine
> 
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett
> Newport, RI 
> USA02840
> 
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ 
> 
> +401 965-5260
> 
> On Nov 3, 2014, at 13:38, Robert Boyer via CnC-List  > wrote:
> 
>> Joe:  it is my understanding that a masthead tricolor is not a substitute 
>> for deck-level running lights--it can and should be used in addition.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> Bob Boyer
>> S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
>> 1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
>> email: dainyr...@icloud.com  
>> blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com 
>> 
>> "There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply 
>> messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> 
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com 
>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of 
>> page at:
>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com 
>> 
>> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
> at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> 

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

I second that. On one occasion, when sailing at night in quite some weather
(8-10 ft. waves) we noticed the other sailboat's mast much before we saw its
lights. Our deck mounted lights don't offer much visibility in rough seas.

 

Marek

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Abbott via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2014 4:57 PM
To: Andrew Burton; cnc-list@cnc-list.com; Robert Boyer
Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

 

I agree with Bill Bina and Andy on thisa tricolor can be used as a
substitute for deck running lights when under sail but not both at the same
time.

The advantage of the tricolor comes with coastal and/or offshore sailing:
1.   to preserve the draw on the batteries..one (1) bulb versus three
(3) bulbs.
2.   to be seen from a greater distance

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 -84
Halifax, N.S.





On 2014/11/03 3:49 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List wrote:

Bob, a tricolor is indeed a substitute for deck level running lights. But it
may only be used while sailing. And it should never be used in addition to
deck level lights.

Andy

C&C 40

Peregrine


Andrew Burton 

61 W Narragansett

Newport, RI 

USA02840

 

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ 

+401 965-5260


On Nov 3, 2014, at 13:38, Robert Boyer via CnC-List 
wrote:

Joe:  it is my understanding that a masthead tricolor is not a substitute
for deck-level running lights--it can and should be used in addition.

 

Bob

Bob Boyer 

S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD

1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230

email: dainyr...@icloud.com 

blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com

 

"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply
messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com






___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
 
Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
 

 

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Wally Bryant via CnC-List]

Can we get back to discussions on racing rules?  This Colregs stuff is 
way too foncusing. 



Ken wrote:

>From the Tranport Canada "Small Commercial Vessel Safety Guide - TP 14070 E
(2010)" Chapter 9, found here:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/tp-tp14070-3587.htm



___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Ken Heaton via CnC-List]

>From the Tranport Canada "Small Commercial Vessel Safety Guide - TP 14070 E
(2010)" Chapter 9, found here:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/tp-tp14070-3587.htm
Sailing Vessels

A sailing vessel is any vessel under sail provided that if propelling
machinery is fitted, it is not being used.

A sailing vessel under way must exhibit sidelights and a sternlight (see
Figure 9-3)

link to figure 9-3:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/media/images/marinesafety/tp14070-12.jpg

or, if less than 20 metres long, a combined lantern carried at or near the
top of the mast (see Figure 9-4).

link to figure 9-4:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/media/images/marinesafety/tp14070-13.jpg

A sailing vessel may exhibit at or near the top of the mast, two all-round
lights in a vertical line: the upper one red and the lower one green. These
lights are shown along with the sidelights and sternlight, but not with the
combined lantern (see Figure 9-5).

link to Figure 9-5:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/media/images/marinesafety/tp14070-14.jpg


Actually, the wording of the collision regulations is essentially the same:

Rule 25Sailing Vessels Underway and Vessels Under Oars — International

   - (*a*)
   A sailing vessel underway shall exhibit:
   -

  (i) sidelights,
  -

  (ii) a sternlight.
  - (*b*)
   In a sailing vessel of less than 20 metres in length the lights
   prescribed in paragraph (*a*) of this Rule may be combined in one
   lantern carried at or near the top of the mast where it can best be seen.
   - (*c*)
   A sailing vessel underway may, in addition to the lights prescribed in
   paragraph (*a*) of this Rule, exhibit at or near the top of the mast,
   where they can best be seen, two all-round lights in a vertical line, the
   upper being red and the lower green, but these lights shall not be
   exhibited in conjunction with the combined lantern permitted by paragraph (
   *b*) of this Rule.


http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.%2C_c._1416/page-4.html#h-8


Ken H.

On 3 November 2014 20:18, Wally Bryant via CnC-List 
wrote:

> At anchor, no problem.  I have a solar garden light tie wrapped at both
> bow and stern, and have at times mounted one port and starboard amidships
> on the stanchions.  They also help to find the boat at night...
>
> As Bill mentioned, Tri-Color and running lights are a no-no.  When under
> power your steaming light must be higher than your running lights.
> (Red-White-Red underway means you're towing.  When at anchor it means
> you're dredging.  On land it means 'Hurricane')
>
> Just to make it more confusing:
>
> I just had to pull out my 'Quick Reference Nav Rules' cheat sheet -- a
> plastic card that shows all this stuff.  And darned if it doesn't show a
> boat under sail with both running lights and lights at the masthead with
> the note 'may be added.'  Huh.  Note that there wasn't a white light at the
> masthead, just red and green. So I pulled out my copy of Chapmans, which is
> pretty much the definitive source.  It definitely makes no mention of both
> deck lights and masthead lights when under sail.  Also, if you did have
> your tri-color and running lights on, you would be showing two white lights
> astern, which isn't a listed configuration.
>
> And after reading Chapman again, it's amazing that we *all* break the
> rules all the time.  How many of us fly a black ball in the fore-triangle
> when at anchor during the day?  I actually have one, but have never used it.
>
> And when single handed off shore motoring at night, when I'm sleeping,
> I'll turn on the foredeck light.  It's the same fitting as the steaming
> light, so what the heck.  I'm asleep, so it's not like it's going to wreck
> my night vision.
>
> Wal
>
>  wrote:
>
>> Same goes for the anchor light.  No one looks up.  I was pulling into St
>> Michaels, MD once and noticed some "lights in the trees?"  When suddenly I
>> realized they were anchor lights.
>>
>> Is there a problem using both the deck lights and tri-color for added
>> visibility?
>>
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
> page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Wally Bryant via CnC-List]

At anchor, no problem.  I have a solar garden light tie wrapped at both 
bow and stern, and have at times mounted one port and starboard 
amidships on the stanchions.  They also help to find the boat at night...


As Bill mentioned, Tri-Color and running lights are a no-no.  When under 
power your steaming light must be higher than your running lights.  
(Red-White-Red underway means you're towing.  When at anchor it means 
you're dredging.  On land it means 'Hurricane')


Just to make it more confusing:

I just had to pull out my 'Quick Reference Nav Rules' cheat sheet -- a 
plastic card that shows all this stuff.  And darned if it doesn't show a 
boat under sail with both running lights and lights at the masthead with 
the note 'may be added.'  Huh.  Note that there wasn't a white light at 
the masthead, just red and green. So I pulled out my copy of Chapmans, 
which is pretty much the definitive source.  It definitely makes no 
mention of both deck lights and masthead lights when under sail.  Also, 
if you did have your tri-color and running lights on, you would be 
showing two white lights astern, which isn't a listed configuration.


And after reading Chapman again, it's amazing that we *all* break the 
rules all the time.  How many of us fly a black ball in the 
fore-triangle when at anchor during the day?  I actually have one, but 
have never used it.


And when single handed off shore motoring at night, when I'm sleeping, 
I'll turn on the foredeck light.  It's the same fitting as the steaming 
light, so what the heck.  I'm asleep, so it's not like it's going to 
wreck my night vision.


Wal

 wrote:

Same goes for the anchor light.  No one looks up.  I was pulling into St
Michaels, MD once and noticed some "lights in the trees?"  When suddenly I
realized they were anchor lights.

Is there a problem using both the deck lights and tri-color for added
visibility?



___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Robert Abbott via CnC-List]

I agree with Bill Bina and Andy on thisa tricolor can be used as a 
substitute for deck running lights when under sail but not both at the 
same time.


The advantage of the tricolor comes with coastal and/or offshore sailing:
1.   to preserve the draw on the batteries..one (1) bulb versus 
three (3) bulbs.

2.   to be seen from a greater distance

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 -84
Halifax, N.S.





On 2014/11/03 3:49 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List wrote:
Bob, a tricolor is indeed a substitute for deck level running lights. 
But it may only be used while sailing. And it should never be used in 
addition to deck level lights.

Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Nov 3, 2014, at 13:38, Robert Boyer via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Joe:  it is my understanding that a masthead tricolor is not a 
substitute for deck-level running lights--it can and should be used 
in addition.


Bob

Bob Boyer
S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
email: dainyr...@icloud.com 
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com 

"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as 
simply messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com 
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom 
of page at:

http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com




___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com



___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Andrew Burton via CnC-List]

Bob, a tricolor is indeed a substitute for deck level running lights. But it 
may only be used while sailing. And it should never be used in addition to deck 
level lights.
Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

> On Nov 3, 2014, at 13:38, Robert Boyer via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Joe:  it is my understanding that a masthead tricolor is not a substitute for 
> deck-level running lights--it can and should be used in addition.
> 
> Bob
> 
> Bob Boyer
> S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
> 1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
> email: dainyr...@icloud.com 
> blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
> 
> "There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply 
> messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
> at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> 
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List]

It is completely illegal to use both at the same time. Each nav light 
displayed has a specific meaning, especially in relation to other lights 
being displayed. You are not permitted to vary the configuration.


Bill Bina


On 11/3/2014 2:38 PM, Robert Boyer via CnC-List wrote:
Joe:  it is my understanding that a masthead tricolor is not a 
substitute for deck-level running lights--it can and should be used in 
addition.


Bob

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Robert Boyer via CnC-List]

Joe:  it is my understanding that a masthead tricolor is not a substitute for 
deck-level running lights--it can and should be used in addition.

Bob

Bob Boyer
S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
email: dainyr...@icloud.com 
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com

"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply 
messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

LED anchor lights make the "floating light problem" MUCH worse. Pinpoints of 
white light look a lot like Venus, bright stars, or airplane landing lights. On 
a hazy night they seem utterly divorced from the boats below. If I even switch 
my anchor light bulb (been up there since the 1980s) to LED, I am going to have 
several LEDs in there so it has a size to it. When I was anchored for a week in 
a high traffic area I had white LED aquarium lights wrapped around the 
forestay. Advantages were it lit the entire boat up, it was bright enough to 
read by 100 yards out or seemed like it, and the current draw was tiny. 
Disadvantage was every bug on the river showed up. Much better when the bugs 
are 60 feet over my head.
As for both sets of lights, this is not legal. On the port side you are 
signaling "not under command" and the starboard side looks like a minesweeper 
or dredge or something.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I
From: Josh Muckley [mailto:muckl...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2014 1:06 PM
To: Della Barba, Joe; C&C List
Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs


Same goes for the anchor light.  No one looks up.  I was pulling into St 
Michaels, MD once and noticed some "lights in the trees?"  When suddenly I 
realized they were anchor lights.

Is there a problem using both the deck lights and tri-color for added 
visibility?
I keep a very bright LED flashlight in my pocket at night so I can light up the 
sail or signal an oncoming boater.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Nov 3, 2014 12:13 PM, "Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List" 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
FYI - I *never* use my tricolor anymore inshore. I discovered after nearly 
being rammed twice that NO ONE looks up that high except freighter captains. 
You also may want to consider the legal liability of having non-standard lights 
- not that that stops powerboats from having any weird combination of lights 
that only sort of look something like running lights.
I decided to have totally legal and BRIGHT running lights at deck level for 
inshore use.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina
From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>] On 
Behalf Of Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2014 10:55 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Subject: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs


You get what you pay for..

If you choose wisely it's not just the certification, it's the overall 
construction and performance. After careful consideration I bought this one:
http://www.miseagroup.com/solutions/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_5_7&products_id=23&zenid=va2a254cabmkjgrsvlq56umv46

If you shop it right you can get it for a little less than 400.00 bucks.   400 
bucks for a tricolor on a boat that's used on a lake ? The way I see it, It's 
actually pretty cheap insurance to protect my family and favorite toy from the 
lowest common denominator drunk redneck plowing into my boat in the middle of 
the night.

And yes, the thing is nothing short of amazing in the way it's built (beautiful 
machined / anodized aluminum,  thick Lexan lens. Military spec circuitry, etc) 
and how it performs:  Brightest tri on the lake, You can see it in the distance 
in broad daylight.. No kidding.  Also, the Windex is brightly lit at night, the 
anchor light turn off automatically, even the mounting is exceptional.

Also, it may be bad form on a seaway but when trying to ward-off drunk rednecks 
on the lake, when we sail at night  my boat is lit like a Christmas tree with 
the tri and running lights blazing, no worries about being confused for a 
fishing trawler.

Francois
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, Georgia

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com<mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Same goes for the anchor light.  No one looks up.  I was pulling into St
Michaels, MD once and noticed some "lights in the trees?"  When suddenly I
realized they were anchor lights.

Is there a problem using both the deck lights and tri-color for added
visibility?
I keep a very bright LED flashlight in my pocket at night so I can light up
the sail or signal an oncoming boater.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
 On Nov 3, 2014 12:13 PM, "Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>  FYI - I **never** use my tricolor anymore inshore. I discovered after
> nearly being rammed twice that NO ONE looks up that high except freighter
> captains. You also may want to consider the legal liability of having
> non-standard lights - not that that stops powerboats from having any weird
> combination of lights that only sort of look something like running lights.
>
> I decided to have totally legal and BRIGHT running lights at deck level
> for inshore use.
>
>
>
> *Joe Della Barba*
>
> Coquina
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
> *Jean-Francois
> J Rivard via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Monday, November 03, 2014 10:55 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs
>
>
>
> You get what you pay for..
>
> If you choose wisely it's not just the certification, it's the overall
> construction and performance. After careful consideration I bought this
> one:
>
>
> http://www.miseagroup.com/solutions/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_5_7&products_id=23&zenid=va2a254cabmkjgrsvlq56umv46
>
> If you shop it right you can get it for a little less than 400.00 bucks.
> 400 bucks for a tricolor on a boat that's used on a lake ? The way I see
> it, It's actually pretty cheap insurance to protect my family and favorite
> toy from the lowest common denominator drunk redneck plowing into my boat
> in the middle of the night.
>
> And yes, the thing is nothing short of amazing in the way it's built
> (beautiful machined / anodized aluminum,  thick Lexan lens. Military spec
> circuitry, etc) and how it performs:  Brightest tri on the lake, You can
> see it in the distance in broad daylight.. No kidding.  Also, the Windex is
> brightly lit at night, the anchor light turn off automatically, even the
> mounting is exceptional.
>
> Also, it may be bad form on a seaway but when trying to ward-off drunk
> rednecks on the lake, when we sail at night  my boat is lit like a
> Christmas tree with the tri and running lights blazing, no worries about
> being confused for a fishing trawler.
>
> Francois
> 1990 34+ "Take Five"
> Lake Lanier, Georgia
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
> page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

FYI - I *never* use my tricolor anymore inshore. I discovered after nearly 
being rammed twice that NO ONE looks up that high except freighter captains. 
You also may want to consider the legal liability of having non-standard lights 
- not that that stops powerboats from having any weird combination of lights 
that only sort of look something like running lights.
I decided to have totally legal and BRIGHT running lights at deck level for 
inshore use.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2014 10:55 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs


You get what you pay for..

If you choose wisely it's not just the certification, it's the overall 
construction and performance. After careful consideration I bought this one:
http://www.miseagroup.com/solutions/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_5_7&products_id=23&zenid=va2a254cabmkjgrsvlq56umv46

If you shop it right you can get it for a little less than 400.00 bucks.   400 
bucks for a tricolor on a boat that's used on a lake ? The way I see it, It's 
actually pretty cheap insurance to protect my family and favorite toy from the 
lowest common denominator drunk redneck plowing into my boat in the middle of 
the night.

And yes, the thing is nothing short of amazing in the way it's built (beautiful 
machined / anodized aluminum,  thick Lexan lens. Military spec circuitry, etc) 
and how it performs:  Brightest tri on the lake, You can see it in the distance 
in broad daylight.. No kidding.  Also, the Windex is brightly lit at night, the 
anchor light turn off automatically, even the mounting is exceptional.

Also, it may be bad form on a seaway but when trying to ward-off drunk rednecks 
on the lake, when we sail at night  my boat is lit like a Christmas tree with 
the tri and running lights blazing, no worries about being confused for a 
fishing trawler.

Francois
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, Georgia
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Ditto your running lights plus tricolor for rednecks.

You need to have lights near water level.drunk rednecks on party barges
don't usually look up.  In fact, drunk rednecks on party barges don't look,
period!

We were anchored behind Pensacola Beach in broad daylight.  We had a 15
inch orange round fender on our anchor rode roughly 25-30 feet off our
bow.  A drunk driving a party barge straddled it.  Jetskis love to zoom
past it.  Rather than a safety thing, it seems to be a stooopidity magnet.

In addition to our LED anchor light at the masthead, I hang an LED all
around from the boom.  Here's the light:

http://store.marinebeam.com/utanliwiduto.html

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 9:54 AM, Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
>You get what you pay for..
>
>If you choose wisely it's not just the certification, it's the overall
>construction and performance. After careful consideration I bought this
>one:
>
>
> http://www.miseagroup.com/solutions/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_5_7&products_id=23&zenid=va2a254cabmkjgrsvlq56umv46
>
> If you shop it right you can get it for a little less than 400.00 bucks.
> 400 bucks for a tricolor on a boat that's used on a lake ? The way I see
> it, It's actually pretty cheap insurance to protect my family and favorite
> toy from the lowest common denominator drunk redneck plowing into my boat
> in the middle of the night.
>
> And yes, the thing is nothing short of amazing in the way it's built
> (beautiful machined / anodized aluminum,  thick Lexan lens. Military spec
> circuitry, etc) and how it performs:  Brightest tri on the lake, You can
> see it in the distance in broad daylight.. No kidding.  Also, the Windex is
> brightly lit at night, the anchor light turn off automatically, even the
> mounting is exceptional.
>
> Also, it may be bad form on a seaway but when trying to ward-off drunk
> rednecks on the lake, when we sail at night  my boat is lit like a
> Christmas tree with the tri and running lights blazing, no worries about
> being confused for a fishing trawler.
>
> Francois
> 1990 34+ "Take Five"
> Lake Lanier, Georgia
>
>
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
> page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List]

You get what you pay for..

 If you choose wisely it's not just the certification, it's the overall
 construction and performance. After careful consideration I bought this
 one:

http://www.miseagroup.com/solutions/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_5_7&products_id=23&zenid=va2a254cabmkjgrsvlq56umv46

If you shop it right you can get it for a little less than 400.00 bucks.
400 bucks for a tricolor on a boat that's used on a lake ? The way I see
it, It's actually pretty cheap insurance to protect my family and favorite
toy from the lowest common denominator drunk redneck plowing into my boat
in the middle of the night.

And yes, the thing is nothing short of amazing in the way it's built
(beautiful machined / anodized aluminum,  thick Lexan lens. Military spec
circuitry, etc) and how it performs:  Brightest tri on the lake, You can
see it in the distance in broad daylight.. No kidding.  Also, the Windex is
brightly lit at night, the anchor light turn off automatically, even the
mounting is exceptional.

Also, it may be bad form on a seaway but when trying to ward-off drunk
rednecks on the lake, when we sail at night  my boat is lit like a
Christmas tree with the tri and running lights blazing, no worries about
being confused for a fishing trawler.

Francois
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, Georgia

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

No one cares until someone gets hurt.

I recall a boat built in the 1800s with no electrical system being rammed at 
night while anchored. The powerboat skipper that hit them sued them for using a 
kerosene anchor light and IIRC the wood boat lost :(

I think the boats name is Elf and she is still around.

 

Joe Della Barba

j...@dellabarba.com <mailto:j...@dellabarba.com> 

Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Chuck S via 
CnC-List
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2014 10:39 AM
To: Bill Bina - gmail; CNC boat owners, cnc-list
Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

 

We may be overthinking the LED bulb and running lights, brightness, visibilty, 
distance seen, curve of the earth, CG certification, legal liability, etc.  But 
that's why this list is so fun. 

 

 

Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md

 

  _  

From: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
To: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 10:08:48 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

 

It is also important to consider mounting height when calculating how far away 
something can be seen. You lose distance due to curvature of the earth. Two 6 
foot tall men standing on shores 6 miles across from each other cannot see each 
others heads, even without throwing even an inch of wave height into the mix. 
The "high spot" between them is only 3 miles from their respective vantage 
point. :-) 

Bill Bina




On 10/31/2014 9:50 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List wrote:

FYI – the running lights standard on the 1973 35 MK I, if you can find them, 
are sold as “not approved for new construction”, so I think they do not meet 
modern standards either. I long ago switched to an Aquasignal 25 mounted on the 
pulpit which is MUCH more visible. 

 

Joe Della Barba

Coquina

C&C 35 MK I

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bina 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 5:48 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

 

Yes, you must comply with the regulations. NO, if you modify your existing 
light by changing from the original bulb as supplied with the fixture, it is no 
longer  legally CERTIFIED BY THE MANUFACTURER as being in compliance. If you 
end up in court, you will have the burden of proving that the light you were 
using complied with the regulations. It will no longer be accepted as complying 
simply by virtue of being certified. It doesn't matter at all if your light now 
exceeds the requirements by 2 or 3 times the visibility. It is no longer 
CERTIFIED. People can try and make this as complicated and convoluted as they 
like, but the facts don't care. Meeting the requirements is not the same thing 
as CERTIFIED as meeting the requirements. 

Bill Bina

On 10/31/2014 12:14 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List wrote:

The USCG minutia is contained in 33CFR84. You will find it in Annex I of the 
COLREGS, which you are required to have on your boat if you have a Captain's 
License. And which you probably have on you boat in any event.

 

33CFR88.05 says: The operator of each self-propelled vessel 12 meters (39.4') 
or more in length shall carry on board and maintain for ready reference a copy 
of the Inland Navigation Rules.

 

As has been pointed out before, a navigation light is certified by the light 
manufacturer to comply with the USCG requirements. IF YOU MANUFACTURE A BOAT 
FOR SALE IN THE USA YOU MAY ONLY USE A CERTIFIED LIGHT ASSEMBLY. If you are a 
boat owner, or building a boat for your own use, you can use any lighting 
device or bulb you chose, provided that the lights meet the requirements of 
COLREGS RULE 22 (visibility) and RULE 23 (light patterns).

 

Raise your hand if you have one of the Davis LED anchor lights that plug into a 
cigarette lighter, or a battery operated Perko anchor light you keep as a 
backup. Both meet COLREGS 22 for boats less than 39 feet, but neither are 
certified by the manufacturer. At least mine aren't marked as certified.

 

I can find no direct reference to the nav lights required in 46CFR Subchapter C 
covering uninspected passenger vessels of less than 100 tons carrying 6 or 
fewer passengers, other than the requirement to comply with COLREGS 22 & 23.

 

For small inspected passenger vessels up to 100 tons carrying 100 or fewer 
passengers, 46CFR Subchapter T paragraph 183.420 says: All vessels must have 
navigation lights that are in compliance with the applicable sections of the 
International and Inland Navigation rules, except that a vessel of more than 
198 meters (65') in length must also have navigation lights that meet UL 1104 
"Standards for Marine Navigation Lights" or other standard sp

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Chuck S via CnC-List]

We may be overthinking the LED bulb and running lights, brightness, visibilty, 
distance seen, curve of the earth, CG certification, legal liability, etc. But 
that's why this list is so fun. 


Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md 

- Original Message -

From: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list"  
To: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list"  
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 10:08:48 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs 

It is also important to consider mounting height when calculating how far away 
something can be seen. You lose distance due to curvature of the earth. Two 6 
foot tall men standing on shores 6 miles across from each other cannot see each 
others heads, even without throwing even an inch of wave height into the mix. 
The "high spot" between them is only 3 miles from their respective vantage 
point. :-) 

Bill Bina 

On 10/31/2014 9:50 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List wrote: 





FYI – the running lights standard on the 1973 35 MK I, if you can find them, 
are sold as “not approved for new construction”, so I think they do not meet 
modern standards either. I long ago switched to an Aquasignal 25 mounted on the 
pulpit which is MUCH more visible. 




Joe Della Barba 

Coquina 

C&C 35 MK I 





From: CnC-List [ mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com ] On Behalf Of Bill Bina 
via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 5:48 AM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs 





Yes, you must comply with the regulations. NO, if you modify your existing 
light by changing from the original bulb as supplied with the fixture, it is no 
longer legally CERTIFIED BY THE MANUFACTURER as being in compliance. If you end 
up in court, you will have the burden of proving that the light you were using 
complied with the regulations. It will no longer be accepted as complying 
simply by virtue of being certified. It doesn't matter at all if your light now 
exceeds the requirements by 2 or 3 times the visibility. It is no longer 
CERTIFIED. People can try and make this as complicated and convoluted as they 
like, but the facts don't care. Meeting the requirements is not the same thing 
as CERTIFIED as meeting the requirements. 

Bill Bina 

On 10/31/2014 12:14 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List wrote: 





The USCG minutia is contained in 33CFR84. You will find it in Annex I of the 
COLREGS, which you are required to have on your boat if you have a Captain's 
License. And which you probably have on you boat in any event. 





33CFR88.05 says: The operator of each self-propelled vessel 12 meters (39.4') 
or more in length shall carry on board and maintain for ready reference a copy 
of the Inland Navigation Rules. 





As has been pointed out before, a navigation light is certified by the light 
manufacturer to comply with the USCG requirements. IF YOU MANUFACTURE A BOAT 
FOR SALE IN THE USA YOU MAY ONLY USE A CERTIFIED LIGHT ASSEMBLY. If you are a 
boat owner, or building a boat for your own use, you can use any lighting 
device or bulb you chose, provided that the lights meet the requirements of 
COLREGS RULE 22 (visibility) and RULE 23 (light patterns). 





Raise your hand if you have one of the Davis LED anchor lights that plug into a 
cigarette lighter, or a battery operated Perko anchor light you keep as a 
backup. Both meet COLREGS 22 for boats less than 39 feet, but neither are 
certified by the manufacturer. At least mine aren't marked as certified. 





I can find no direct reference to the nav lights required in 46CFR Subchapter C 
covering uninspected passenger vessels of less than 100 tons carrying 6 or 
fewer passengers, other than the requirement to comply with COLREGS 22 & 23. 





For small inspected passenger vessels up to 100 tons carrying 100 or fewer 
passengers, 46CFR Subchapter T paragraph 183.420 says: All vessels must have 
navigation lights that are in compliance with the applicable sections of the 
International and Inland Navigation rules, except that a vessel of more than 
198 meters (65') in length must also have navigation lights that meet UL 1104 
"Standards for Marine Navigation Lights" or other standard specified by the 
Commandant. 





Bottom line is that as a Captain you must comply with the light visibility and 
patterns specified in the COLREGS, and you must have a copy of the current 
COLREGS aboard. 





If you don't have a captain's license and you boat is less than 12 meters you 
must comply with the COLREGS. 





And if the boat is over 12 meters you need to comply and carry a copy of the 
COLREGS. 





I could not find anything in the 2000+ pages of Federal Regulation I got while 
obtaining my Masters License that indicates you need to use a certified light, 
use the same type of bulb, or buy the same bulb used in building your boat - 
but you must comply with COLREGS 22&23

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Touche' also has the Perko deck mounts on the bow casting.  I keep a spare
green lens on the boat.  The dumb foredeck guy frequently drops the spin
pole.  The light is in exactly the right spot to get hammered by the end of
the pole, breaking the lens.

I need to talk to the foredeck guy.  OK, Dennis, quit dropping the pole!!
There, that's done.  :)

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 10:13 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Those are exactly the lights I used to replace the lights on my 25 mk1. It
> was a direct replacement for the OEM lights. I think Perko offers them as
> well.
>
>
>
> Lenses for the lights are also available in the event your old stainless
> light is still functioning but the lens is cracked or scorched.
>
>
>
>
>
> Rick Brass
>
> Washington, NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken
> Heaton via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, October 31, 2014 10:39 AM
> *To:* Burt Stratton; cnc-list
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs
>
>
>
> No, in 1973 the 35 Mk.1 had lights on top of the bow casting similar to
> these Perko Nav Lights:
>
>
>
>
> http://www.perko.com/catalog/navigation_lights_under_20_meters/76/horizontal_mount_side_light/
>
>
>
> We fitted these as replacements for the originals a few years ago on a
> friends Mk.1 as they are CG Certified for 1 nm.  They are OK, not as
> durable as a pulpit mounted Aqua Signal.
>
>
>
> I think these below are pretty much what was original equipment.
>
>
>
> Note: Not for new construction
>
>
>
> http://www.sea-dog.com/groups/1835-top-mount-side-light
>
>
>
> Ken H.
>
>
>
> On 31 October 2014 11:08, Burt Stratton via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Does the 1973 MK1 have the flush mounted lights molded into the hull below
> the deck? My 1974 33 ¾ tonner does and I am having trouble just finding a
> lamp base for replacement. I am sure I will need to fabricate something. I
> had to fabricate new lenses. (green and red acrylic sheets). My lights each
> have two lamps. They look like standard automotive 12VDC incandescent
> lamps. I will be happy just to have running lights. In my situation I am
> not concerned about USCG certification.
>
>
>
> If someone runs into me at night and then tries to use my running lights
> as an excuse I don’t think they will get much sympathy from anyone.
>
>
>
> Burt
>
> 1974 C&C 33 ¾ tonner
>
> To be named over the winter
>
> Portsmouth, RI
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Della
> Barba, Joe via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, October 31, 2014 9:50 AM
>
>
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs
>
>
>
> FYI – the running lights standard on the 1973 35 MK I, if you can find
> them, are sold as “not approved for new construction”, so I think they do
> not meet modern standards either. I long ago switched to an Aquasignal 25
> mounted on the pulpit which is MUCH more visible.
>
>
>
> *Joe Della Barba*
>
> *Coquina*
>
> *C&C 35 MK I*
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Bill Bina via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, October 31, 2014 5:48 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs
>
>
>
> Yes, you must comply with the regulations. NO, if you modify your existing
> light by changing from the original bulb as supplied with the fixture, it
> is no longer  legally CERTIFIED BY THE MANUFACTURER as being in compliance.
> If you end up in court, you will have the burden of proving that the light
> you were using complied with the regulations. It will no longer be accepted
> as complying simply by virtue of being certified. It doesn't matter at all
> if your light now exceeds the requirements by 2 or 3 times the visibility.
> It is no longer CERTIFIED. People can try and make this as complicated and
> convoluted as they like, but the facts don't care. Meeting the requirements
> is not the same thing as CERTIFIED as meeting the requirements.
>
> Bill Bina
>
> On 10/31/2014 12:14 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List wrote:
>
> The USCG minutia is contained in 33CFR84. You will find it in Annex I of
> the COLREGS, which you are required to have on your boat if you have a
> Captain's License. And which you probably have on you boat in any event.
>
>
>
> 33CFR88.05 says: The operator of each self-propelled vessel 12 meters
> (3

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

Those are exactly the lights I used to replace the lights on my 25 mk1. It was 
a direct replacement for the OEM lights. I think Perko offers them as well.

 

Lenses for the lights are also available in the event your old stainless light 
is still functioning but the lens is cracked or scorched.

 

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ken Heaton 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 10:39 AM
To: Burt Stratton; cnc-list
Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

 

No, in 1973 the 35 Mk.1 had lights on top of the bow casting similar to these 
Perko Nav Lights:

 

http://www.perko.com/catalog/navigation_lights_under_20_meters/76/horizontal_mount_side_light/

 

We fitted these as replacements for the originals a few years ago on a friends 
Mk.1 as they are CG Certified for 1 nm.  They are OK, not as durable as a 
pulpit mounted Aqua Signal.

 

I think these below are pretty much what was original equipment.

 

Note: Not for new construction

 

http://www.sea-dog.com/groups/1835-top-mount-side-light

 

Ken H.

 

On 31 October 2014 11:08, Burt Stratton via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Does the 1973 MK1 have the flush mounted lights molded into the hull below the 
deck? My 1974 33 ¾ tonner does and I am having trouble just finding a lamp base 
for replacement. I am sure I will need to fabricate something. I had to 
fabricate new lenses. (green and red acrylic sheets). My lights each have two 
lamps. They look like standard automotive 12VDC incandescent lamps. I will be 
happy just to have running lights. In my situation I am not concerned about 
USCG certification. 

 

If someone runs into me at night and then tries to use my running lights as an 
excuse I don’t think they will get much sympathy from anyone.

 

Burt

1974 C&C 33 ¾ tonner

To be named over the winter

Portsmouth, RI

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com 
<mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> ] On Behalf Of Della Barba, Joe via 
CnC-List
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 9:50 AM


To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

 

FYI – the running lights standard on the 1973 35 MK I, if you can find them, 
are sold as “not approved for new construction”, so I think they do not meet 
modern standards either. I long ago switched to an Aquasignal 25 mounted on the 
pulpit which is MUCH more visible. 

 

Joe Della Barba

Coquina

C&C 35 MK I

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bina 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 5:48 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

 

Yes, you must comply with the regulations. NO, if you modify your existing 
light by changing from the original bulb as supplied with the fixture, it is no 
longer  legally CERTIFIED BY THE MANUFACTURER as being in compliance. If you 
end up in court, you will have the burden of proving that the light you were 
using complied with the regulations. It will no longer be accepted as complying 
simply by virtue of being certified. It doesn't matter at all if your light now 
exceeds the requirements by 2 or 3 times the visibility. It is no longer 
CERTIFIED. People can try and make this as complicated and convoluted as they 
like, but the facts don't care. Meeting the requirements is not the same thing 
as CERTIFIED as meeting the requirements. 

Bill Bina

On 10/31/2014 12:14 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List wrote:

The USCG minutia is contained in 33CFR84. You will find it in Annex I of the 
COLREGS, which you are required to have on your boat if you have a Captain's 
License. And which you probably have on you boat in any event.

 

33CFR88.05 says: The operator of each self-propelled vessel 12 meters (39.4') 
or more in length shall carry on board and maintain for ready reference a copy 
of the Inland Navigation Rules.

 

As has been pointed out before, a navigation light is certified by the light 
manufacturer to comply with the USCG requirements. IF YOU MANUFACTURE A BOAT 
FOR SALE IN THE USA YOU MAY ONLY USE A CERTIFIED LIGHT ASSEMBLY. If you are a 
boat owner, or building a boat for your own use, you can use any lighting 
device or bulb you chose, provided that the lights meet the requirements of 
COLREGS RULE 22 (visibility) and RULE 23 (light patterns).

 

Raise your hand if you have one of the Davis LED anchor lights that plug into a 
cigarette lighter, or a battery operated Perko anchor light you keep as a 
backup. Both meet COLREGS 22 for boats less than 39 feet, but neither are 
certified by the manufacturer. At least mine aren't marked as certified.

 

I can find no direct reference to the nav lights required in 46CFR Subchapter C 
covering uninspected passenger vessels of 

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Guys,

One other point about unapproved lights -- The other boater would have to
prove that the accident occurred because he could not see the lights.  If
your 1 nm light is only visible for .8 nm, how did that cause the accident?
(and who is going to test the bulb?)

Joel

On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 10:45 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> What you say is true, Bill; if you change the bulb the light fixture is no
> longer certified. Heck, if your wiring is corroded and delivers less than
> the voltage specified for testing, I’d bet is it no longer certified as
> well.
>
>
>
> But nowhere in the Consolidated Federal Regulations can I find a
> requirement that the operator of a boat need to use a certified light. Only
> that you meet the COLREGS requirements, unless your boat is over 65 ft and
> in passenger service for more than 6 passengers – and then you need to also
> meet the UL compliance requirement. (If I learned nothing else in getting
> my Masters License, I did learn how to navigate the Consolidated Federal
> Regulations. I’m sure there are different but similar requirements for
> Canadian boaters, but wouldn’t have a clue as to where to look for them.)
> The requirement for certified lights applies only to a boat manufacturer.
>
>
>
> That said, your point is about evidence in a potential admiralty court
> case. Plaintiffs’ attorney can make any statement they want – true or not –
> during a case. It is the responsibility of the defense attorney to refute
> the stuff that is wrong or untrue. (They actually taught this stuff to my
> ex-wife, who is a retired Judge, in law school.) The claim about lights not
> certified could be used to cloud the other issues in a hearing and mitigate
> the size of a settlement.
>
>
>
> But remember, no case involving a boat accident is about absolute
> liability. COLREGS rule 2 makes every maritime accident a shared liability
> event. So if you do go to court you are arguing about the portion of
> liability for each party involved, and arguing about the size of the
> settlement. If your lights are substandard or not even turned on, the other
> party is still required by Rule 5 (lookout) and Rule 6 (safe speed) to see
> you and avoid you. So the condition of your lights will not absolve him of
> responsibility – but they might reduce his damages if he hits you.
>
>
>
> And unless your boat or your life is a whale of a lot more valuable than
> mine, the insurance company will likely find it a lot less expensive to pay
> the damages rather than incur the expense of lawyers and trial to reduce
> the amount they have to pay.
>
>
>
>
>
> Rick Brass
>
> Washington, NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill
> Bina via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, October 31, 2014 5:48 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs
>
>
>
> Yes, you must comply with the regulations. NO, if you modify your existing
> light by changing from the original bulb as supplied with the fixture, it
> is no longer  legally CERTIFIED BY THE MANUFACTURER as being in compliance.
> If you end up in court, you will have the burden of proving that the light
> you were using complied with the regulations. It will no longer be accepted
> as complying simply by virtue of being certified. It doesn't matter at all
> if your light now exceeds the requirements by 2 or 3 times the visibility.
> It is no longer CERTIFIED. People can try and make this as complicated and
> convoluted as they like, but the facts don't care. Meeting the requirements
> is not the same thing as CERTIFIED as meeting the requirements.
>
> Bill Bina
>
> On 10/31/2014 12:14 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List wrote:
>
> The USCG minutia is contained in 33CFR84. You will find it in Annex I of
> the COLREGS, which you are required to have on your boat if you have a
> Captain's License. And which you probably have on you boat in any event.
>
>
>
> 33CFR88.05 says: The operator of each self-propelled vessel 12 meters
> (39.4') or more in length shall carry on board and maintain for ready
> reference a copy of the Inland Navigation Rules.
>
>
>
> As has been pointed out before, a navigation light is certified by the
> light manufacturer to comply with the USCG requirements. IF YOU MANUFACTURE
> A BOAT FOR SALE IN THE USA YOU MAY ONLY USE A CERTIFIED LIGHT ASSEMBLY. If
> you are a boat owner, or building a boat for your own use, you can use any
> lighting device or bulb you chose, provided that the lights meet the
> requirements of COLREGS RULE 22 (visibility) and RULE 23 (light patterns).
>
>
>

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List]

On 10/31/2014 10:45 AM, Rick Brass wrote:


What you say is true, Bill; if you change the bulb the light fixture 
is no longer certified. Heck, if your wiring is corroded and delivers 
less than the voltage specified for testing, I'd bet is it no longer 
certified as well.




Still certified, but no longer meeting the legal requirements! In court, 
even a certified fixture can be challenged. I replaced my certified 
stern light this season because the lens on the old one was too 
weathered to be legal... or safe.


But nowhere in the Consolidated Federal Regulations can I find a 
requirement that the operator of a boat need to use a certified light. 
Only that you meet the COLREGS requirements, unless your boat is over 
65 ft and in passenger service for more than 6 passengers -- and then 
you need to also meet the UL compliance requirement.




Agreed.

(If I learned nothing else in getting my Masters License, I did learn 
how to navigate the Consolidated Federal Regulations. I'm sure there 
are different but similar requirements for Canadian boaters, but 
wouldn't have a clue as to where to look for them.) The requirement 
for certified lights applies only to a boat manufacturer.


That said, your point is about evidence in a potential admiralty court 
case. Plaintiffs' attorney can make any statement they want -- true or 
not -- during a case. It is the responsibility of the defense attorney 
to refute the stuff that is wrong or untrue. (They actually taught 
this stuff to my ex-wife, who is a retired Judge, in law school.) The 
claim about lights not certified could be used to cloud the other 
issues in a hearing and mitigate the size of a settlement.


But remember, no case involving a boat accident is about absolute 
liability. COLREGS rule 2 makes every maritime accident a shared 
liability event. So if you do go to court you are arguing about the 
portion of liability for each party involved, and arguing about the 
size of the settlement. If your lights are substandard or not even 
turned on, the other party is still required by Rule 5 (lookout) and 
Rule 6 (safe speed) to see you and avoid you. So the condition of your 
lights will not absolve him of responsibility -- but they might reduce 
his damages if he hits you.


And unless your boat or your life is a whale of a lot more valuable 
than mine, the insurance company will likely find it a lot less 
expensive to pay the damages rather than incur the expense of lawyers 
and trial to reduce the amount they have to pay.




I think we basically are in agreement, Rick. I have just tried to point 
out that there is a difference between "meeting the regulations" and 
being certified as meeting the regulations. This is a distinct difference.


All that said, I have a certified anchor light on the top of my mast, 
but I don't use it. I opt for hanging a very bright LED camp lantern in 
the triangle formed by the mast and boom, at about 20-25 feet up. I am 
confident that although it is in no way certified, that it far exceeds 
the requirements for an anchor light. It also greatly reduces the chance 
that I would ever need to prove that point after being hit by someone 
who claims they didn't see me. :-)


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

What you say is true, Bill; if you change the bulb the light fixture is no
longer certified. Heck, if your wiring is corroded and delivers less than
the voltage specified for testing, I’d bet is it no longer certified as
well.

 

But nowhere in the Consolidated Federal Regulations can I find a requirement
that the operator of a boat need to use a certified light. Only that you
meet the COLREGS requirements, unless your boat is over 65 ft and in
passenger service for more than 6 passengers – and then you need to also
meet the UL compliance requirement. (If I learned nothing else in getting my
Masters License, I did learn how to navigate the Consolidated Federal
Regulations. I’m sure there are different but similar requirements for
Canadian boaters, but wouldn’t have a clue as to where to look for them.)
The requirement for certified lights applies only to a boat manufacturer.

 

That said, your point is about evidence in a potential admiralty court case.
Plaintiffs’ attorney can make any statement they want – true or not – during
a case. It is the responsibility of the defense attorney to refute the stuff
that is wrong or untrue. (They actually taught this stuff to my ex-wife, who
is a retired Judge, in law school.) The claim about lights not certified
could be used to cloud the other issues in a hearing and mitigate the size
of a settlement.

 

But remember, no case involving a boat accident is about absolute liability.
COLREGS rule 2 makes every maritime accident a shared liability event. So if
you do go to court you are arguing about the portion of liability for each
party involved, and arguing about the size of the settlement. If your lights
are substandard or not even turned on, the other party is still required by
Rule 5 (lookout) and Rule 6 (safe speed) to see you and avoid you. So the
condition of your lights will not absolve him of responsibility – but they
might reduce his damages if he hits you.

 

And unless your boat or your life is a whale of a lot more valuable than
mine, the insurance company will likely find it a lot less expensive to pay
the damages rather than incur the expense of lawyers and trial to reduce the
amount they have to pay.

 

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bina
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 5:48 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

 

Yes, you must comply with the regulations. NO, if you modify your existing
light by changing from the original bulb as supplied with the fixture, it is
no longer  legally CERTIFIED BY THE MANUFACTURER as being in compliance. If
you end up in court, you will have the burden of proving that the light you
were using complied with the regulations. It will no longer be accepted as
complying simply by virtue of being certified. It doesn't matter at all if
your light now exceeds the requirements by 2 or 3 times the visibility. It
is no longer CERTIFIED. People can try and make this as complicated and
convoluted as they like, but the facts don't care. Meeting the requirements
is not the same thing as CERTIFIED as meeting the requirements. 

Bill Bina

On 10/31/2014 12:14 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List wrote:

The USCG minutia is contained in 33CFR84. You will find it in Annex I of the
COLREGS, which you are required to have on your boat if you have a Captain's
License. And which you probably have on you boat in any event.

 

33CFR88.05 says: The operator of each self-propelled vessel 12 meters
(39.4') or more in length shall carry on board and maintain for ready
reference a copy of the Inland Navigation Rules.

 

As has been pointed out before, a navigation light is certified by the light
manufacturer to comply with the USCG requirements. IF YOU MANUFACTURE A BOAT
FOR SALE IN THE USA YOU MAY ONLY USE A CERTIFIED LIGHT ASSEMBLY. If you are
a boat owner, or building a boat for your own use, you can use any lighting
device or bulb you chose, provided that the lights meet the requirements of
COLREGS RULE 22 (visibility) and RULE 23 (light patterns).

 

Raise your hand if you have one of the Davis LED anchor lights that plug
into a cigarette lighter, or a battery operated Perko anchor light you keep
as a backup. Both meet COLREGS 22 for boats less than 39 feet, but neither
are certified by the manufacturer. At least mine aren't marked as certified.

 

I can find no direct reference to the nav lights required in 46CFR
Subchapter C covering uninspected passenger vessels of less than 100 tons
carrying 6 or fewer passengers, other than the requirement to comply with
COLREGS 22 & 23.

 

For small inspected passenger vessels up to 100 tons carrying 100 or fewer
passengers, 46CFR Subchapter T paragraph 183.420 says: All vessels must have
navigation lights that are in compliance with the applicable sections of the
International and Inland Navigation rules, except that a vessel 

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Ken Heaton via CnC-List]

No, in 1973 the 35 Mk.1 had lights on top of the bow casting similar to
these Perko Nav Lights:

http://www.perko.com/catalog/navigation_lights_under_20_meters/76/horizontal_mount_side_light/

We fitted these as replacements for the originals a few years ago on a
friends Mk.1 as they are CG Certified for 1 nm.  They are OK, not as
durable as a pulpit mounted Aqua Signal.

I think these below are pretty much what was original equipment.

Note: Not for new construction

http://www.sea-dog.com/groups/1835-top-mount-side-light

Ken H.

On 31 October 2014 11:08, Burt Stratton via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Does the 1973 MK1 have the flush mounted lights molded into the hull below
> the deck? My 1974 33 ¾ tonner does and I am having trouble just finding a
> lamp base for replacement. I am sure I will need to fabricate something. I
> had to fabricate new lenses. (green and red acrylic sheets). My lights each
> have two lamps. They look like standard automotive 12VDC incandescent
> lamps. I will be happy just to have running lights. In my situation I am
> not concerned about USCG certification.
>
>
>
> If someone runs into me at night and then tries to use my running lights
> as an excuse I don’t think they will get much sympathy from anyone.
>
>
>
> Burt
>
> 1974 C&C 33 ¾ tonner
>
> To be named over the winter
>
> Portsmouth, RI
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Della
> Barba, Joe via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, October 31, 2014 9:50 AM
>
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs
>
>
>
> FYI – the running lights standard on the 1973 35 MK I, if you can find
> them, are sold as “not approved for new construction”, so I think they do
> not meet modern standards either. I long ago switched to an Aquasignal 25
> mounted on the pulpit which is MUCH more visible.
>
>
>
> *Joe Della Barba*
>
> *Coquina*
>
> *C&C 35 MK I*
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Bill Bina via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, October 31, 2014 5:48 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs
>
>
>
> Yes, you must comply with the regulations. NO, if you modify your existing
> light by changing from the original bulb as supplied with the fixture, it
> is no longer  legally CERTIFIED BY THE MANUFACTURER as being in compliance.
> If you end up in court, you will have the burden of proving that the light
> you were using complied with the regulations. It will no longer be accepted
> as complying simply by virtue of being certified. It doesn't matter at all
> if your light now exceeds the requirements by 2 or 3 times the visibility.
> It is no longer CERTIFIED. People can try and make this as complicated and
> convoluted as they like, but the facts don't care. Meeting the requirements
> is not the same thing as CERTIFIED as meeting the requirements.
>
> Bill Bina
>
> On 10/31/2014 12:14 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List wrote:
>
> The USCG minutia is contained in 33CFR84. You will find it in Annex I of
> the COLREGS, which you are required to have on your boat if you have a
> Captain's License. And which you probably have on you boat in any event.
>
>
>
> 33CFR88.05 says: The operator of each self-propelled vessel 12 meters
> (39.4') or more in length shall carry on board and maintain for ready
> reference a copy of the Inland Navigation Rules.
>
>
>
> As has been pointed out before, a navigation light is certified by the
> light manufacturer to comply with the USCG requirements. IF YOU MANUFACTURE
> A BOAT FOR SALE IN THE USA YOU MAY ONLY USE A CERTIFIED LIGHT ASSEMBLY. If
> you are a boat owner, or building a boat for your own use, you can use any
> lighting device or bulb you chose, provided that the lights meet the
> requirements of COLREGS RULE 22 (visibility) and RULE 23 (light patterns).
>
>
>
> Raise your hand if you have one of the Davis LED anchor lights that plug
> into a cigarette lighter, or a battery operated Perko anchor light you keep
> as a backup. Both meet COLREGS 22 for boats less than 39 feet, but neither
> are certified by the manufacturer. At least mine aren't marked as certified.
>
>
>
> I can find no direct reference to the nav lights required in 46CFR
> Subchapter C covering uninspected passenger vessels of less than 100 tons
> carrying 6 or fewer passengers, other than the requirement to comply with
> COLREGS 22 & 23.
>
>
>
> For small inspected passenger vessels up to 100 tons carrying 100 or fewer
> passengers, 46CFR Subchapter T paragraph 183.420 says: All vessels must
> have navi

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List]

It is also important to consider mounting height when calculating how 
far away something can be seen. You lose distance due to curvature of 
the earth. Two 6 foot tall men standing on shores 6 miles across from 
each other cannot see each others heads, even without throwing even an 
inch of wave height into the mix. The "high spot" between them is only 3 
miles from their respective vantage point. :-)


Bill Bina

On 10/31/2014 9:50 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List wrote:


FYI -- the running lights standard on the 1973 35 MK I, if you can 
find them, are sold as "not approved for new construction", so I think 
they do not meet modern standards either. I long ago switched to an 
Aquasignal 25 mounted on the pulpit which is MUCH more visible.


*/Joe Della Barba/*

*/Coquina/*

*/C&C 35 MK I/*

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*Bill Bina via CnC-List

*Sent:* Friday, October 31, 2014 5:48 AM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

Yes, you must comply with the regulations. NO, if you modify your 
existing light by changing from the original bulb as supplied with the 
fixture, it is no longer  legally CERTIFIED BY THE MANUFACTURER as 
being in compliance. If you end up in court, you will have the burden 
of proving that the light you were using complied with the 
regulations. It will no longer be accepted as complying simply by 
virtue of being certified. It doesn't matter at all if your light now 
exceeds the requirements by 2 or 3 times the visibility. It is no 
longer CERTIFIED. People can try and make this as complicated and 
convoluted as they like, but the facts don't care. Meeting the 
requirements is not the same thing as CERTIFIED as meeting the 
requirements.


Bill Bina

On 10/31/2014 12:14 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List wrote:

The USCG minutia is contained in 33CFR84. You will find it in
Annex I of the COLREGS, which you are required to have on your
boat if you have a Captain's License. And which you probably have
on you boat in any event.

33CFR88.05 says: The operator of each self-propelled vessel 12
meters (39.4') or more in length shall carry on board and maintain
for ready reference a copy of the Inland Navigation Rules.

As has been pointed out before, a navigation light is certified by
the light manufacturer to comply with the USCG requirements. IF
YOU MANUFACTURE A BOAT FOR SALE IN THE USA YOU MAY ONLY USE A
CERTIFIED LIGHT ASSEMBLY. If you are a boat owner, or building a
boat for your own use, you can use any lighting device or bulb you
chose, provided that the lights meet the requirements of COLREGS
RULE 22 (visibility) and RULE 23 (light patterns).

Raise your hand if you have one of the Davis LED anchor lights
that plug into a cigarette lighter, or a battery operated Perko
anchor light you keep as a backup. Both meet COLREGS 22 for boats
less than 39 feet, but neither are certified by the manufacturer.
At least mine aren't marked as certified.

I can find no direct reference to the nav lights required in 46CFR
Subchapter C covering uninspected passenger vessels of less than
100 tons carrying 6 or fewer passengers, other than the
requirement to comply with COLREGS 22 & 23.

For small inspected passenger vessels up to 100 tons carrying 100
or fewer passengers, 46CFR Subchapter T paragraph 183.420 says:
All vessels must have navigation lights that are in compliance
with the applicable sections of the International and Inland
Navigation rules, except that a vessel of more than 198 meters
(65') in length must also have navigation lights that meet UL 1104
"Standards for Marine Navigation Lights" or other standard
specified by the Commandant.

Bottom line is that as a Captain you must comply with the light
visibility and patterns specified in the COLREGS, and you must
have a copy of the current COLREGS aboard.

If you don't have a captain's license and you boat is less than 12
meters you must comply with the COLREGS.

And if the boat is over 12 meters you need to comply and carry a
copy of the COLREGS.

I could not find anything in the 2000+ pages of Federal Regulation
I got while obtaining my Masters License that indicates you need
to use a certified light, use the same type of bulb, or buy the
same bulb used in building your boat - but you must comply with
COLREGS 22&23.

Rick Brass

Sent from my iPad


On Oct 30, 2014, at 21:38, Russ & Melody via CnC-List
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


I'm guessing from previous discussions that you only need to
worry about this USCG reg minutiae is if you have a Captain's
license. Right?

:)

Cheers, Russ
/Sweet /35 

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Burt Stratton via CnC-List]

Does the 1973 MK1 have the flush mounted lights molded into the hull below
the deck? My 1974 33 ¾ tonner does and I am having trouble just finding a
lamp base for replacement. I am sure I will need to fabricate something. I
had to fabricate new lenses. (green and red acrylic sheets). My lights each
have two lamps. They look like standard automotive 12VDC incandescent lamps.
I will be happy just to have running lights. In my situation I am not
concerned about USCG certification. 

 

If someone runs into me at night and then tries to use my running lights as
an excuse I don’t think they will get much sympathy from anyone.

 

Burt

1974 C&C 33 ¾ tonner

To be named over the winter

Portsmouth, RI

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Della
Barba, Joe via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 9:50 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

 

FYI – the running lights standard on the 1973 35 MK I, if you can find them,
are sold as “not approved for new construction”, so I think they do not meet
modern standards either. I long ago switched to an Aquasignal 25 mounted on
the pulpit which is MUCH more visible. 

 

Joe Della Barba

Coquina

C&C 35 MK I

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bina
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 5:48 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

 

Yes, you must comply with the regulations. NO, if you modify your existing
light by changing from the original bulb as supplied with the fixture, it is
no longer  legally CERTIFIED BY THE MANUFACTURER as being in compliance. If
you end up in court, you will have the burden of proving that the light you
were using complied with the regulations. It will no longer be accepted as
complying simply by virtue of being certified. It doesn't matter at all if
your light now exceeds the requirements by 2 or 3 times the visibility. It
is no longer CERTIFIED. People can try and make this as complicated and
convoluted as they like, but the facts don't care. Meeting the requirements
is not the same thing as CERTIFIED as meeting the requirements. 

Bill Bina

On 10/31/2014 12:14 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List wrote:

The USCG minutia is contained in 33CFR84. You will find it in Annex I of the
COLREGS, which you are required to have on your boat if you have a Captain's
License. And which you probably have on you boat in any event.

 

33CFR88.05 says: The operator of each self-propelled vessel 12 meters
(39.4') or more in length shall carry on board and maintain for ready
reference a copy of the Inland Navigation Rules.

 

As has been pointed out before, a navigation light is certified by the light
manufacturer to comply with the USCG requirements. IF YOU MANUFACTURE A BOAT
FOR SALE IN THE USA YOU MAY ONLY USE A CERTIFIED LIGHT ASSEMBLY. If you are
a boat owner, or building a boat for your own use, you can use any lighting
device or bulb you chose, provided that the lights meet the requirements of
COLREGS RULE 22 (visibility) and RULE 23 (light patterns).

 

Raise your hand if you have one of the Davis LED anchor lights that plug
into a cigarette lighter, or a battery operated Perko anchor light you keep
as a backup. Both meet COLREGS 22 for boats less than 39 feet, but neither
are certified by the manufacturer. At least mine aren't marked as certified.

 

I can find no direct reference to the nav lights required in 46CFR
Subchapter C covering uninspected passenger vessels of less than 100 tons
carrying 6 or fewer passengers, other than the requirement to comply with
COLREGS 22 & 23.

 

For small inspected passenger vessels up to 100 tons carrying 100 or fewer
passengers, 46CFR Subchapter T paragraph 183.420 says: All vessels must have
navigation lights that are in compliance with the applicable sections of the
International and Inland Navigation rules, except that a vessel of more than
198 meters (65') in length must also have navigation lights that meet UL
1104 "Standards for Marine Navigation Lights" or other standard specified by
the Commandant.

 

Bottom line is that as a Captain you must comply with the light visibility
and patterns specified in the COLREGS, and you must have a copy of the
current COLREGS aboard. 

 

If you don't have a captain's license and you boat is less than 12 meters
you must comply with the COLREGS.

 

And if the boat is over 12 meters you need to comply and carry a copy of the
COLREGS.

 

I could not find anything in the 2000+ pages of Federal Regulation I got
while obtaining my Masters License that indicates you need to use a
certified light, use the same type of bulb, or buy the same bulb used in
building your boat - but you must comply with COLREGS 22&23.

 

Rick Brass

Sent from my iPad


On Oct 30, 2014, at 21:38, Russ & Melody via CnC-List
 wrote:


I'm g

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

FYI - the running lights standard on the 1973 35 MK I, if you can find them, 
are sold as "not approved for new construction", so I think they do not meet 
modern standards either. I long ago switched to an Aquasignal 25 mounted on the 
pulpit which is MUCH more visible.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bina 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 5:48 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

Yes, you must comply with the regulations. NO, if you modify your existing 
light by changing from the original bulb as supplied with the fixture, it is no 
longer  legally CERTIFIED BY THE MANUFACTURER as being in compliance. If you 
end up in court, you will have the burden of proving that the light you were 
using complied with the regulations. It will no longer be accepted as complying 
simply by virtue of being certified. It doesn't matter at all if your light now 
exceeds the requirements by 2 or 3 times the visibility. It is no longer 
CERTIFIED. People can try and make this as complicated and convoluted as they 
like, but the facts don't care. Meeting the requirements is not the same thing 
as CERTIFIED as meeting the requirements.

Bill Bina

On 10/31/2014 12:14 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List wrote:
The USCG minutia is contained in 33CFR84. You will find it in Annex I of the 
COLREGS, which you are required to have on your boat if you have a Captain's 
License. And which you probably have on you boat in any event.

33CFR88.05 says: The operator of each self-propelled vessel 12 meters (39.4') 
or more in length shall carry on board and maintain for ready reference a copy 
of the Inland Navigation Rules.

As has been pointed out before, a navigation light is certified by the light 
manufacturer to comply with the USCG requirements. IF YOU MANUFACTURE A BOAT 
FOR SALE IN THE USA YOU MAY ONLY USE A CERTIFIED LIGHT ASSEMBLY. If you are a 
boat owner, or building a boat for your own use, you can use any lighting 
device or bulb you chose, provided that the lights meet the requirements of 
COLREGS RULE 22 (visibility) and RULE 23 (light patterns).

Raise your hand if you have one of the Davis LED anchor lights that plug into a 
cigarette lighter, or a battery operated Perko anchor light you keep as a 
backup. Both meet COLREGS 22 for boats less than 39 feet, but neither are 
certified by the manufacturer. At least mine aren't marked as certified.

I can find no direct reference to the nav lights required in 46CFR Subchapter C 
covering uninspected passenger vessels of less than 100 tons carrying 6 or 
fewer passengers, other than the requirement to comply with COLREGS 22 & 23.

For small inspected passenger vessels up to 100 tons carrying 100 or fewer 
passengers, 46CFR Subchapter T paragraph 183.420 says: All vessels must have 
navigation lights that are in compliance with the applicable sections of the 
International and Inland Navigation rules, except that a vessel of more than 
198 meters (65') in length must also have navigation lights that meet UL 1104 
"Standards for Marine Navigation Lights" or other standard specified by the 
Commandant.

Bottom line is that as a Captain you must comply with the light visibility and 
patterns specified in the COLREGS, and you must have a copy of the current 
COLREGS aboard.

If you don't have a captain's license and you boat is less than 12 meters you 
must comply with the COLREGS.

And if the boat is over 12 meters you need to comply and carry a copy of the 
COLREGS.

I could not find anything in the 2000+ pages of Federal Regulation I got while 
obtaining my Masters License that indicates you need to use a certified light, 
use the same type of bulb, or buy the same bulb used in building your boat - 
but you must comply with COLREGS 22&23.

Rick Brass

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 30, 2014, at 21:38, Russ & Melody via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

I'm guessing from previous discussions that you only need to worry about this 
USCG reg minutiae is if you have a Captain's license. Right?

:)

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1

If you dream, dream big.
If you can think of a better world you will have a better world.
If pigs could fly imagine how good their wings would taste...



At 06:53 AM 30/10/2014, you wrote:


And then there was the discussion of whether putting LED bulbs in old fixtures 
would be compliant with USCG regs.  Many said no as the whole unit, both bulb 
and fixture, has to be certified.  And that was why for a long period there 
were so few USCG approved LED running lights; the approval process was long and 
involved and many companies did not want to expend the $ or effort...

So, if an incident were to occur and it was discovered that the whole fixture 
was not in compliance [and lights were relevant to the 

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Bill Bina via CnC-List]

  
  
Yes, you must comply with the
  regulations. NO, if you modify your existing light by changing
  from the original bulb as supplied with the fixture, it is no
  longer  legally CERTIFIED BY THE MANUFACTURER as being in
  compliance. If you end up in court, you will have the burden of
  proving that the light you were using complied with the
  regulations. It will no longer be accepted as complying simply by
  virtue of being certified. It doesn't matter at all if your light
  now exceeds the requirements by 2 or 3 times the visibility. It is
  no longer CERTIFIED. People can try and make this as complicated
  and convoluted as they like, but the facts don't care. Meeting the
  requirements is not the same thing as CERTIFIED as meeting the
  requirements. 
  
  Bill Bina
  
  On 10/31/2014 12:14 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List wrote:


  
  The USCG minutia is contained in 33CFR84. You will find it in
Annex I of the COLREGS, which you are required to have on your
boat if you have a Captain's License. And which you probably
have on you boat in any event.
  
  
  33CFR88.05 says: The operator of each self-propelled vessel
12 meters (39.4') or more in length shall carry on board and
maintain for ready reference a copy of the Inland Navigation
Rules.
  
  
  As has been pointed out before, a navigation light is
certified by the light manufacturer to comply with the USCG
requirements. IF YOU MANUFACTURE A BOAT FOR SALE IN THE USA YOU
MAY ONLY USE A CERTIFIED LIGHT ASSEMBLY. If you are a boat
owner, or building a boat for your own use, you can use any
lighting device or bulb you chose, provided that the lights meet
the requirements of COLREGS RULE 22 (visibility) and RULE 23
(light patterns).
  
  
  Raise your hand if you have one of the Davis LED anchor
lights that plug into a cigarette lighter, or a battery operated
Perko anchor light you keep as a backup. Both meet COLREGS 22
for boats less than 39 feet, but neither are certified by the
manufacturer. At least mine aren't marked as certified.
  
  
  I can find no direct reference to the nav lights required in
46CFR Subchapter C covering uninspected passenger vessels of
less than 100 tons carrying 6 or fewer passengers, other than
the requirement to comply with COLREGS 22 & 23.
  
  
  For small inspected passenger vessels up to 100 tons carrying
100 or fewer passengers, 46CFR Subchapter T paragraph 183.420
says: All vessels must have navigation lights that are in
compliance with the applicable sections of the International and
Inland Navigation rules, except that a vessel of more than 198
meters (65') in length must also have navigation lights that
meet UL 1104 "Standards for Marine Navigation Lights" or other
standard specified by the Commandant.
  
  
  Bottom line is that as a Captain you must comply with the
light visibility and patterns specified in the COLREGS, and you
must have a copy of the current COLREGS aboard. 
  
  
  If you don't have a captain's license and you boat is less
than 12 meters you must comply with the COLREGS.
  
  
  And if the boat is over 12 meters you need to comply and
carry a copy of the COLREGS.
  
  
  I could not find anything in the 2000+ pages of Federal
Regulation I got while obtaining my Masters License that
indicates you need to use a certified light, use the same type
of bulb, or buy the same bulb used in building your boat - but
you must comply with COLREGS 22&23.
  
  
  Rick Brass

Sent from my iPad
  
On Oct 30, 2014, at 21:38, Russ & Melody via CnC-List 
wrote:

  
  

  
  I'm guessing from previous discussions that you only need to
  worry about
  this USCG reg minutiae is if you have a Captain's license.
  Right?
  
  
  :)
  
  Cheers,
  Russ
  Sweet
  35 mk-1
  
  If you dream, dream big.
If you can think of a better world you will have a better
world.
If pigs could fly imagine how good their wings would
taste...



  At 06:53 AM 30/10/2014, you wrote:
  
  And then there
was the
discussion of whether putting LED bulbs in old fixtures
would be
compliant with USCG regs.  Many said no as the whole unit,
both
bulb and fixture, has to be cert

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Bravo Rick.

Well stated. In my mind this clears things up very nicely.

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1

P.S. I'm a bit glad to know you sent us this from 
your iPad, but I don't know why... :)


At 09:14 PM 30/10/2014, you wrote:
The USCG minutia is contained in 33CFR84. You 
will find it in Annex I of the COLREGS, which 
you are required to have on your boat if you 
have a Captain's License. And which you probably have on you boat in any event.


33CFR88.05 says: The operator of each 
self-propelled vessel 12 meters (39.4') or more 
in length shall carry on board and maintain for 
ready reference a copy of the Inland Navigation Rules.


As has been pointed out before, a navigation 
light is certified by the light manufacturer to 
comply with the USCG requirements. IF YOU 
MANUFACTURE A BOAT FOR SALE IN THE USA YOU MAY 
ONLY USE A CERTIFIED LIGHT ASSEMBLY. If you are 
a boat owner, or building a boat for your own 
use, you can use any lighting device or bulb you 
chose, provided that the lights meet the 
requirements of COLREGS RULE 22 (visibility) and RULE 23 (light patterns).


Raise your hand if you have one of the Davis LED 
anchor lights that plug into a cigarette 
lighter, or a battery operated Perko anchor 
light you keep as a backup. Both meet COLREGS 22 
for boats less than 39 feet, but neither are 
certified by the manufacturer. At least mine aren't marked as certified.


I can find no direct reference to the nav lights 
required in 46CFR Subchapter C covering 
uninspected passenger vessels of less than 100 
tons carrying 6 or fewer passengers, other than 
the requirement to comply with COLREGS 22 & 23.


For small inspected passenger vessels up to 100 
tons carrying 100 or fewer passengers, 46CFR 
Subchapter T paragraph 183.420 says: All vessels 
must have navigation lights that are in 
compliance with the applicable sections of the 
International and Inland Navigation rules, 
except that a vessel of more than 198 meters 
(65') in length must also have navigation lights 
that meet UL 1104 "Standards for Marine 
Navigation Lights" or other standard specified by the Commandant.


Bottom line is that as a Captain you must comply 
with the light visibility and patterns specified 
in the COLREGS, and you must have a copy of the current COLREGS aboard.


If you don't have a captain's license and you 
boat is less than 12 meters you must comply with the COLREGS.


And if the boat is over 12 meters you need to 
comply and carry a copy of the COLREGS.


I could not find anything in the 2000+ pages of 
Federal Regulation I got while obtaining my 
Masters License that indicates you need to use a 
certified light, use the same type of bulb, or 
buy the same bulb used in building your boat - 
but you must comply with COLREGS 22&23.


Rick Brass

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 30, 2014, at 21:38, Russ & Melody via 
CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:




I'm guessing from previous discussions that you 
only need to worry about this USCG reg minutiae 
is if you have a Captain's license. Right?


:)

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1

If you dream, dream big.
If you can think of a better world you will have a better world.
If pigs could fly imagine how good their wings would taste...



At 06:53 AM 30/10/2014, you wrote:

And then there was the discussion of whether 
putting LED bulbs in old fixtures would be 
compliant with USCG regs.  Many said no as 
the whole unit, both bulb and fixture, has to 
be certified.  And that was why for a long 
period there were so few USCG approved LED 
running lights; the approval process was long 
and involved and many companies did not want to expend the $ or effort…


So, if an incident were to occur and it was 
discovered that the whole fixture was not in 
compliance [and lights were relevant to the 
incident] might liability fall differently and 
insurance companies not be forthcoming with any coverage?


Any current thoughts?Â

From: CnC-List [ 
mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Coleman via CnC-List

Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 9:24 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Running Lights

Now this really confuses me, when I first went 
LED on my forward running lights, I replaced 
them with red and green, and then someone, I 
think at the boat show, or maybe in one of the 
boat magazines, said you had to have white 
coming through a colored lens, so I changed back to white.
Now my port running light is broken, and I am 
in the market, and now I am really confused!


Regards,

Bill Coleman
C&C 39


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including 
unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at:

http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.c

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

The USCG minutia is contained in 33CFR84. You will find it in Annex I of the 
COLREGS, which you are required to have on your boat if you have a Captain's 
License. And which you probably have on you boat in any event.

33CFR88.05 says: The operator of each self-propelled vessel 12 meters (39.4') 
or more in length shall carry on board and maintain for ready reference a copy 
of the Inland Navigation Rules.

As has been pointed out before, a navigation light is certified by the light 
manufacturer to comply with the USCG requirements. IF YOU MANUFACTURE A BOAT 
FOR SALE IN THE USA YOU MAY ONLY USE A CERTIFIED LIGHT ASSEMBLY. If you are a 
boat owner, or building a boat for your own use, you can use any lighting 
device or bulb you chose, provided that the lights meet the requirements of 
COLREGS RULE 22 (visibility) and RULE 23 (light patterns).

Raise your hand if you have one of the Davis LED anchor lights that plug into a 
cigarette lighter, or a battery operated Perko anchor light you keep as a 
backup. Both meet COLREGS 22 for boats less than 39 feet, but neither are 
certified by the manufacturer. At least mine aren't marked as certified.

I can find no direct reference to the nav lights required in 46CFR Subchapter C 
covering uninspected passenger vessels of less than 100 tons carrying 6 or 
fewer passengers, other than the requirement to comply with COLREGS 22 & 23.

For small inspected passenger vessels up to 100 tons carrying 100 or fewer 
passengers, 46CFR Subchapter T paragraph 183.420 says: All vessels must have 
navigation lights that are in compliance with the applicable sections of the 
International and Inland Navigation rules, except that a vessel of more than 
198 meters (65') in length must also have navigation lights that meet UL 1104 
"Standards for Marine Navigation Lights" or other standard specified by the 
Commandant.

Bottom line is that as a Captain you must comply with the light visibility and 
patterns specified in the COLREGS, and you must have a copy of the current 
COLREGS aboard. 

If you don't have a captain's license and you boat is less than 12 meters you 
must comply with the COLREGS.

And if the boat is over 12 meters you need to comply and carry a copy of the 
COLREGS.

I could not find anything in the 2000+ pages of Federal Regulation I got while 
obtaining my Masters License that indicates you need to use a certified light, 
use the same type of bulb, or buy the same bulb used in building your boat - 
but you must comply with COLREGS 22&23.

Rick Brass

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 30, 2014, at 21:38, Russ & Melody via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> I'm guessing from previous discussions that you only need to worry about this 
> USCG reg minutiae is if you have a Captain's license. Right? 
> 
> :)
> 
> Cheers, Russ
> Sweet 35 mk-1
> 
> If you dream, dream big.
> If you can think of a better world you will have a better world.
> If pigs could fly imagine how good their wings would taste...
> 
> 
> 
> At 06:53 AM 30/10/2014, you wrote:
> 
>> And then there was the discussion of whether putting LED bulbs in old 
>> fixtures would be compliant with USCG regs.  Many said no as the whole 
>> unit, both bulb and fixture, has to be certified.  And that was why for a 
>> long period there were so few USCG approved LED running lights; the approval 
>> process was long and involved and many companies did not want to expend the 
>> $ or effort…
>>  
>> So, if an incident were to occur and it was discovered that the whole 
>> fixture was not in compliance [and lights were relevant to the incident] 
>> might liability fall differently and insurance companies not be forthcoming 
>> with any coverage? 
>>  
>> Any current thoughts?  
>>  
>> From: CnC-List [ mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill 
>> Coleman via CnC-List
>> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 9:24 AM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Stus-List Running Lights
>>  
>> Now this really confuses me, when I first went LED on my forward running 
>> lights, I replaced them with red and green, and then someone, I think at the 
>> boat show, or maybe in one of the boat magazines, said you had to have white 
>> coming through a colored lens, so I changed back to white.
>> Now my port running light is broken, and I am in the market, and now I am 
>> really confused!
>>  
>> Regards,
>>  
>> Bill Coleman
>> C&C 39
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
> at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> 
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Dan Mccorison via CnC-List]

So you are right on the last part of you statement.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 30, 2014, at 9:59 PM, "Dan Mccorison via CnC-List" 
>  wrote:
> 
> That saying you can be the manufacture.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 30, 2014, at 1:24 PM, "Bill Bina via CnC-List" 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> There is no such animal as a "USCG approved navigation light. The USCG does 
>> not have a department that tests products. When a nav light (or a PFD)  is 
>> certified, it is certified by the manufacturer to meet or exceed the USCG 
>> requirements. When a manufacturer certifies a nav light, it certifies the 
>> whole fixture including the lightbulb within. You cannot legally even 
>> replace the original bulb with one from another source, even if it has the 
>> same specs and part number. It HAS to come from the company that made the 
>> fixture, or the whole   thing becomes not certified. Just the same, in 
>> the highly unlikely event that your nav light becomes central to a case 
>> being heard in admiralty court, you and your lawyer can always provide 
>> evidence that your light meets the coast guard requirements, even though YOU 
>> are the one certifying it. Kerosene lanterns that are over 100 years old can 
>> be perfectly legal as nav lights, even though they pre-date the colregs. 
>> They just have to meet or exceed the USCG requirements for color, 
>> visibility, etc. 
>> 
>> Bill Bina
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 10/30/2014 9:53 AM, Nauset Beach via CnC-List wrote:
>>> And then there was the discussion of whether putting LED bulbs in old 
>>> fixtures would be compliant with USCG regs.  Many said no as the whole 
>>> unit, both bulb and fixture, has to be certified.  And that was why for a 
>>> long period there were so few USCG approved LED running lights; the 
>>> approval process was long and involved and many companies did not want to 
>>> expend the $ or effort…
>>>  
>>> So, if an incident were to occur and it was discovered that the whole 
>>> fixture was not in compliance [and lights were relevant to the incident] 
>>> might liability fall differently and insurance companies not be forthcoming 
>>> with any coverage?
>>>  
>>> Any current thoughts? 
>>>  
>>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill 
>>> Coleman via CnC-List
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 9:24 AM
>>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> Subject: Stus-List Running Lights
>>>  
>>> Now this really confuses me, when I first went LED on my forward running 
>>> lights, I replaced them with red and green, and then someone, I think at 
>>> the boat show, or maybe in one of the boat magazines, said you 
>>> had to have white coming through a colored lens, so I changed back to white.
>>> Now my port running light is broken, and I am in the market, and now I am 
>>> really confused!
>>>  
>>> Regards,
>>>  
>>> Bill Coleman
>>> C&C 39
>>>  
>>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rick 
>>> Brass via CnC-List
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 8:49 PM
>>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> Subject: Re: Stus-List EasyBlock Mainsheet Traveler
>>>  
>>> Four or five years ago, I replaced the bulbs in my existing running lights 
>>> and stern lights with LED bulbs. IIRC I got them from Dr. LED and the red 
>>> and green bulbs were about $10 or $11 each, and the bulb for the stern 
>>> light (I think it is called a festoon bulb, a cylinder that has pointy 
>>> contacts on each end) was about $5 or $6.
>>>  
>>> The bulbs in my running lights are a type 90 bulb, which is sort of hard to 
>>> come by anyway. The supplier explained I needed a green bulb behind the 
>>> green lens and a red bulb behind the red lens to get maximum light 
>>> transmission and meet the USCG 2 mile visibility standard. Much of the 
>>> light generated by a white light is apparently absorbed when it goes 
>>> through the green lens.
>>>  
>>> I asked about a 5 mile bulb, but was told that there was no point on a 
>>> light so close to the surface. As part of the mast rebuild, I 
>>> installed a 5 mile tricolor  light at the top of the mast for use when 
>>> offshore.
>>>  
>>> I recently noticed that the teardrop (I kind of think of them as cat’s eye) 
>>> running lights on my bow are beginning to corrode and look shoddy after 38 
>>> years of service. I, too, wonder if there is a direct replacement for the 
>>> old light fixtures available somewhere.
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Rick Brass
>>> Imzadi  C&C 38 mk 2
>>> la Belle Aurore C&C 25 mk1
>>> Washington, NC
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
>>> wwadjo...@aol.com via CnC-List
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 6:44 PM
>>> To: Rick Brass via CnC-List
>>> Subject: Re: Stus-List EasyBlock Mainsheet Traveler
>>>  
>>> Does anyone have source for replacement lens for our teardrop running 
>>> lights, circa 1981?  Orin alternative, experience with replacements(led) I 
>>> see on internet?
>>> Bill Wal

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Dan Mccorison via CnC-List]

That saying you can be the manufacture.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 30, 2014, at 1:24 PM, "Bill Bina via CnC-List"  
> wrote:
> 
> There is no such animal as a "USCG approved navigation light. The USCG does 
> not have a department that tests products. When a nav light (or a PFD)  is 
> certified, it is certified by the manufacturer to meet or exceed the USCG 
> requirements. When a manufacturer certifies a nav light, it certifies the 
> whole fixture including the lightbulb within. You cannot legally even replace 
> the original bulb with one from another source, even if it has the same specs 
> and part number. It HAS to come from the company that made the fixture, or 
> the whole thing becomes not certified. Just the same, in the highly unlikely 
> event that your nav light becomes central to a case being heard in admiralty 
> court, you and your lawyer can always provide evidence that your light meets 
> the coast guard requirements, even though YOU are the one certifying it. 
> Kerosene lanterns that are over 100 years old can be perfectly legal as nav 
> lights, even though they pre-date the colregs. They just have to meet or 
> exceed the USCG requirements for color, visibility, etc. 
> 
> Bill Bina
> 
> 
> 
>> On 10/30/2014 9:53 AM, Nauset Beach via CnC-List wrote:
>> And then there was the discussion of whether putting LED bulbs in old 
>> fixtures would be compliant with USCG regs.  Many said no as the whole unit, 
>> both bulb and fixture, has to be certified.  And that was why for a long 
>> period there were so few USCG approved LED running lights; the approval 
>> process was long and involved and many companies did not want to expend the 
>> $ or effort…
>>  
>> So, if an incident were to occur and it was discovered that the whole 
>> fixture was not in compliance [and lights were relevant to the 
>> incident] might liability fall differently and insurance companies not be 
>> forthcoming with any coverage?
>>  
>> Any current thoughts? 
>>  
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill 
>> Coleman via CnC-List
>> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 9:24 AM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Stus-List Running Lights
>>  
>> Now this really confuses me, when I first went LED on my forward running 
>> lights, I replaced them with red and green, and then someone, I think at the 
>> boat show, or maybe in one of the boat magazines, said you had to have white 
>> coming through a colored lens, so I changed back to white.
>> Now my port running light is broken, and I am in the market, and now I am 
>> really confused!
>>  
>> Regards,
>>  
>> Bill Coleman
>> C&C 39
>>  
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rick 
>> Brass via CnC-List
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 8:49 PM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List EasyBlock Mainsheet Traveler
>>  
>> Four or five years ago, I replaced the bulbs in my existing running lights 
>> and stern lights with LED bulbs. IIRC I got them from Dr. LED and the red 
>> and green bulbs were about $10 or $11 each, and the bulb for the stern light 
>> (I think it is called a festoon bulb, a cylinder that has pointy contacts on 
>> each end) was about $5 or $6.
>>  
>> The bulbs in my running lights are a type 90 bulb, which is sort of hard to 
>> come by anyway. The supplier explained I needed a green bulb behind the 
>> green lens and a red bulb behind the red lens to get maximum light 
>> transmission and meet the USCG 2 mile visibility standard. Much of the light 
>> generated by a white light is apparently absorbed when it goes through the 
>> green lens.
>>  
>> I asked about a 5 mile bulb, but was told that there was no point on a light 
>> so close to the surface. As part of the mast rebuild, I installed a 5 mile 
>> tricolor  light at the top of the mast for use when offshore.
>>  
>> I recently noticed that the teardrop (I kind of think of them as cat’s eye) 
>> running lights on my bow are beginning to corrode and look shoddy after 38 
>> years of service. I, too, wonder if there is a direct replacement for the 
>> old light fixtures available somewhere.
>>  
>>  
>> Rick Brass
>> Imzadi  C&C 38 mk 2
>> la Belle Aurore C&C 25 mk1
>> Washington, NC
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
>> wwadjo...@aol.com via CnC-List
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 6:44 PM
>> To: Rick Brass via CnC-List
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List EasyBlock Mainsheet Traveler
>>  
>> Does anyone have source for replacement lens for our teardrop running 
>> lights, circa 1981?  Orin alternative, experience with replacements(led) I 
>> see on internet?
>> Bill Walker
>> Evening Star
>> CnC 36
>>  
>>  
>> Sent from my HTC
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> 
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Dan Mccorison via CnC-List]

Your wrong about the lights, as long as it meets coast guard standards for the 
seen per mile required for the size boat, you could make your own lights to 
meet the requirement. And you can replace bulbs and it will still meet the 
requirements. Check with the coast guard..

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 30, 2014, at 1:24 PM, "Bill Bina via CnC-List"  
> wrote:
> 
> There is no such animal as a "USCG approved navigation light. The USCG does 
> not have a department that tests products. When a nav light (or a PFD)  is 
> certified, it is certified by the manufacturer to meet or exceed the USCG 
> requirements. When a manufacturer certifies a nav light, it certifies the 
> whole fixture including the lightbulb within. You cannot legally even replace 
> the original bulb with one from another source, even if it has the same specs 
> and part number. It HAS to come from the company that made the fixture, or 
> the whole thing becomes not certified. Just the same, in the highly unlikely 
> event that your nav light becomes central to a case being heard in admiralty 
> court, you and your lawyer can always provide evidence that your light meets 
> the coast guard requirements, even though YOU are the one certifying it. 
> Kerosene lanterns that are over 100 years old can be perfectly legal as nav 
> lights, even though they pre-date the colregs. They just have to meet or 
> exceed the USCG requirements for color, visibility, etc. 
> 
> Bill Bina
> 
> 
> 
>> On 10/30/2014 9:53 AM, Nauset Beach via CnC-List wrote:
>> And then there was the discussion of whether putting LED bulbs in old 
>> fixtures would be compliant with USCG regs.  Many said no as the whole unit, 
>> both bulb and fixture, has to be certified.  And that was why for a long 
>> period there were so few USCG approved LED running lights; the approval 
>> process was long and involved and many companies did not want to expend the 
>> $ or effort…
>>  
>> So, if an incident were to occur and it was discovered that the whole 
>> fixture was not in compliance [and lights were relevant to the 
>> incident] might liability fall differently and insurance companies not be 
>> forthcoming with any coverage?
>>  
>> Any current thoughts? 
>>  
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill 
>> Coleman via CnC-List
>> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 9:24 AM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Stus-List Running Lights
>>  
>> Now this really confuses me, when I first went LED on my forward running 
>> lights, I replaced them with red and green, and then someone, I think at the 
>> boat show, or maybe in one of the boat magazines, said you had to have white 
>> coming through a colored lens, so I changed back to white.
>> Now my port running light is broken, and I am in the market, and now I am 
>> really confused!
>>  
>> Regards,
>>  
>> Bill Coleman
>> C&C 39
>>  
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rick 
>> Brass via CnC-List
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 8:49 PM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List EasyBlock Mainsheet Traveler
>>  
>> Four or five years ago, I replaced the bulbs in my existing running lights 
>> and stern lights with LED bulbs. IIRC I got them from Dr. LED and the red 
>> and green bulbs were about $10 or $11 each, and the bulb for the stern light 
>> (I think it is called a festoon bulb, a cylinder that has pointy contacts on 
>> each end) was about $5 or $6.
>>  
>> The bulbs in my running lights are a type 90 bulb, which is sort of hard to 
>> come by anyway. The supplier explained I needed a green bulb behind the 
>> green lens and a red bulb behind the red lens to get maximum light 
>> transmission and meet the USCG 2 mile visibility standard. Much of the light 
>> generated by a white light is apparently absorbed when it goes through the 
>> green lens.
>>  
>> I asked about a 5 mile bulb, but was told that there was no point on a light 
>> so close to the surface. As part of the mast rebuild, I installed a 5 mile 
>> tricolor  light at the top of the mast for use when offshore.
>>  
>> I recently noticed that the teardrop (I kind of think of them as cat’s eye) 
>> running lights on my bow are beginning to corrode and look shoddy after 38 
>> years of service. I, too, wonder if there is a direct replacement for the 
>> old light fixtures available somewhere.
>>  
>>  
>> Rick Brass
>> Imzadi  C&C 38 mk 2
>> la Belle Aurore C&C 25 mk1
>> Washington, NC
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
>> wwadjo...@aol.com via CnC-List
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 6:44 PM
>> To: Rick Brass via CnC-List
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List EasyBlock Mainsheet Traveler
>>  
>> Does anyone have source for replacement lens for our teardrop running 
>> lights, circa 1981?  Orin alternative, experience with replacements(led) I 
>> see on internet?
>> Bill Walker
>> Evening Star
>> CnC 36
>>  
>>  
>> Sent 

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

I'm guessing from previous discussions that you 
only need to worry about this USCG reg minutiae 
is if you have a Captain's license. Right?


:)

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1

If you dream, dream big.
If you can think of a better world you will have a better world.
If pigs could fly imagine how good their wings would taste...



At 06:53 AM 30/10/2014, you wrote:

And then there was the discussion of whether 
putting LED bulbs in old fixtures would be 
compliant with USCG regs.  Many said no as the 
whole unit, both bulb and fixture, has to be 
certified.  And that was why for a long period 
there were so few USCG approved LED running 
lights; the approval process was long and 
involved and many companies did not want to expend the $ or effort…


So, if an incident were to occur and it was 
discovered that the whole fixture was not in 
compliance [and lights were relevant to the 
incident] might liability fall differently and 
insurance companies not be forthcoming with any coverage?


Any current thoughts?Â

From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Coleman via CnC-List

Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 9:24 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Running Lights

Now this really confuses me, when I first went 
LED on my forward running lights, I replaced 
them with red and green, and then someone, I 
think at the boat show, or maybe in one of the 
boat magazines, said you had to have white 
coming through a colored lens, so I changed back to white.
Now my port running light is broken, and I am in 
the market, and now I am really confused!


Regards,

Bill Coleman
C&C 39

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

As long as the rules are met nothing is specified in any regs about
incandescent vs LED.  Whether or not an LED will meet the visibility
requirements in a fixture originally made for incandescent bulbs is the
users responsibility to determine.  The manufacturers only test for
compliance using their prescribed bulb so using and LED would no longer be
certified by the manufacturer.

.
Rule 22 - Visibility of Lights Pilot Vessels Return to the top of the page

The lights prescribed in Rules 20-31 shall have an intensity as specified
in [ Section 8 of ] Annex I to these Rules so as to be visible at the
following minimum ranges:

(a) In vessels of 50 meters or more in length:

(i) a masthead light, 6 miles;
(ii) a sidelight, 3 miles;
(iii) a towing light, 3 miles;
(iv) a white red, green or yellow all-round light, 3 miles.
[(v) a special flashing light, 2 miles. ]

(b) In vessels of 12 meters or more in length but less than 50 meters in
length;

(i) a masthead light, 5 miles; except that where the length of the vessel
is less than 20 meters, 3 miles;
(ii) a sidelight, 2 miles;
(iii) a sternlight, 2 miles;
(iv) a towing light, 2 miles;
(v) a white, red, green or yellow all-round light, 2 miles.
[(vi) a special flashing light, 2 miles. ]

(c) In vessels of less than 12 meters in length:

(i) a masthead light, 2 miles;
(ii) a sidelight, 1 miles;
(iii) a towing light, 2 miles;
(iv) a white red, green or yellow all-round light, 2 miles.
[(v) a special flashing light, 2 miles. ]

(d) In inconspicuous, partly submerged vessels or objects being towed;

(i) a white all-round light; 3 miles.
.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Oct 30, 2014 9:53 AM, "Nauset Beach via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> And then there was the discussion of whether putting LED bulbs in old
> fixtures would be compliant with USCG regs.  Many said no as the whole
> unit, both bulb and fixture, has to be certified.  And that was why for a
> long period there were so few USCG approved LED running lights; the
> approval process was long and involved and many companies did not want to
> expend the $ or effort...
>
>
>
> So, if an incident were to occur and it was discovered that the whole
> fixture was not in compliance [and lights were relevant to the incident]
> might liability fall differently and insurance companies not be forthcoming
> with any coverage?
>
>
>
> Any current thoughts?
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill
> Coleman via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 30, 2014 9:24 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Stus-List Running Lights
>
>
>
> Now this really confuses me, when I first went LED on my forward running
> lights, I replaced them with red and green, and then someone, I think at
> the boat show, or maybe in one of the boat magazines, said you had to have
> white coming through a colored lens, so I changed back to white.
>
> Now my port running light is broken, and I am in the market, and now I am
> really confused!
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Bill Coleman
>
> C&C 39
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Rick Brass via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 29, 2014 8:49 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List EasyBlock Mainsheet Traveler
>
>
>
> Four or five years ago, I replaced the bulbs in my existing running lights
> and stern lights with LED bulbs. IIRC I got them from Dr. LED and the red
> and green bulbs were about $10 or $11 each, and the bulb for the stern
> light (I think it is called a festoon bulb, a cylinder that has pointy
> contacts on each end) was about $5 or $6.
>
>
>
> The bulbs in my running lights are a type 90 bulb, which is sort of hard
> to come by anyway. The supplier explained I needed a green bulb behind the
> green lens and a red bulb behind the red lens to get maximum light
> transmission and meet the USCG 2 mile visibility standard. Much of the
> light generated by a white light is apparently absorbed when it goes
> through the green lens.
>
>
>
> I asked about a 5 mile bulb, but was told that there was no point on a
> light so close to the surface. As part of the mast rebuild, I installed a 5
> mile tricolor  light at the top of the mast for use when offshore.
>
>
>
> I recently noticed that the teardrop (I kind of think of them as cat's
> eye) running lights on my bow are beginning to corrode and look shoddy
> after 38 years of service. I, too, wonder if there is a direct replacement
> for the old light fixtures available somewhere.
>
>
>
>
>
> Rick Brass
>
> *Imzadi  *C&C 38 mk 2
>
> *la Belle Aurore *C&C 25 mk1
>
> Washington, NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *wwadjo...@aol.com via
> CnC-List
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 29, 2014 6:44 PM
> *To:* Rick Brass via CnC-List
> *Subject:* Re:

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Bill Bina via CnC-List]

  
  
There is no such animal as a "USCG
  approved navigation light. The USCG does not have a department
  that tests products. When a nav light (or a PFD)  is certified, it
  is certified by the manufacturer to meet or exceed
  the USCG requirements. When a manufacturer certifies a nav light,
  it certifies the whole fixture including the lightbulb within. You
  cannot legally even replace the original bulb with one from
  another source, even if it has the same specs and part number. It
  HAS to come from the company that made the fixture, or the whole
  thing becomes not certified. Just the same, in the highly unlikely
  event that your nav light becomes central to a case being heard in
  admiralty court, you and your lawyer can always provide evidence
  that your light meets the coast guard requirements, even though
  YOU are the one certifying it. Kerosene lanterns that are over 100
  years old can be perfectly legal as nav lights, even though they
  pre-date the colregs. They just have to meet or exceed the USCG
  requirements for color, visibility, etc. 
  
  Bill Bina
  
  
  
  On 10/30/2014 9:53 AM, Nauset Beach via CnC-List wrote:


  
  
  
  
And
then there was the discussion of whether putting LED bulbs
in old fixtures would be compliant with USCG regs.  Many
said no as the whole unit, both bulb and fixture, has to be
certified.  And that was why for a long period there were so
few USCG approved LED running lights; the approval process
was long and involved and many companies did not want to
expend the $ or effort…
 
So,
if an incident were to occur and it was discovered that the
whole fixture was not in compliance [and lights were
relevant to the incident] might liability fall differently
and insurance companies not be forthcoming with any
coverage? 
 
Any
current thoughts?  
 

  
From:
CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On
  Behalf Of Bill Coleman via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 9:24 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Running Lights
  

 
Now
this really confuses me, when I first went LED on my forward
running lights, I replaced them with red and green, and then
someone, I think at the boat show, or maybe in one of the
boat magazines, said you had to have white coming through a
colored lens, so I changed back to white.
Now
my port running light is broken, and I am in the market, and
now I am really confused!
 

  Regards,
   
  Bill
  Coleman
  C&C
  39

 

  
From:
CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
On Behalf Of Rick Brass via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 8:49 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List EasyBlock Mainsheet
Traveler
  

 
Four
or five years ago, I replaced the bulbs in my existing
running lights and stern lights with LED bulbs. IIRC I got
them from Dr. LED and the red and green bulbs were about $10
or $11 each, and the bulb for the stern light (I think it is
called a festoon bulb, a cylinder that has pointy contacts
on each end) was about $5 or $6.
 
The
bulbs in my running lights are a type 90 bulb, which is sort
of hard to come by anyway. The supplier explained I needed a
green bulb behind the green lens and a red bulb behind the
red lens to get maximum light transmission and meet the USCG
2 mile visibility standard. Much of the light generated by a
white light is apparently absorbed when it goes through the
green lens.
 
I
asked about a 5 mile bulb, but was told that there was no
point on a light so close to the surface. As part of the
mast rebuild, I installed a 5 mile tricolor  light at the
top of the mast for use when offshore.
 
I
recently noticed that the teardrop (I kind of think of them
as cat’s eye) running lights on my bow are beginning to
corrode and look shoddy after 38 years of service. I, too,
wonder if there is a direct replacement for the old light
fixtures available somewhere.
 
 

Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

[Nauset Beach via CnC-List]

And then there was the discussion of whether putting LED bulbs in old fixtures 
would be compliant with USCG regs.  Many said no as the whole unit, both bulb 
and fixture, has to be certified.  And that was why for a long period there 
were so few USCG approved LED running lights; the approval process was long and 
involved and many companies did not want to expend the $ or effort…

 

So, if an incident were to occur and it was discovered that the whole fixture 
was not in compliance [and lights were relevant to the incident] might 
liability fall differently and insurance companies not be forthcoming with any 
coverage? 

 

Any current thoughts?  

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Coleman 
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 9:24 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Running Lights

 

Now this really confuses me, when I first went LED on my forward running 
lights, I replaced them with red and green, and then someone, I think at the 
boat show, or maybe in one of the boat magazines, said you had to have white 
coming through a colored lens, so I changed back to white.

Now my port running light is broken, and I am in the market, and now I am 
really confused!

 

Regards,

 

Bill Coleman

C&C 39

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rick Brass 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 8:49 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  
Subject: Re: Stus-List EasyBlock Mainsheet Traveler

 

Four or five years ago, I replaced the bulbs in my existing running lights and 
stern lights with LED bulbs. IIRC I got them from Dr. LED and the red and green 
bulbs were about $10 or $11 each, and the bulb for the stern light (I think it 
is called a festoon bulb, a cylinder that has pointy contacts on each end) was 
about $5 or $6.

 

The bulbs in my running lights are a type 90 bulb, which is sort of hard to 
come by anyway. The supplier explained I needed a green bulb behind the green 
lens and a red bulb behind the red lens to get maximum light transmission and 
meet the USCG 2 mile visibility standard. Much of the light generated by a 
white light is apparently absorbed when it goes through the green lens.

 

I asked about a 5 mile bulb, but was told that there was no point on a light so 
close to the surface. As part of the mast rebuild, I installed a 5 mile 
tricolor  light at the top of the mast for use when offshore.

 

I recently noticed that the teardrop (I kind of think of them as cat’s eye) 
running lights on my bow are beginning to corrode and look shoddy after 38 
years of service. I, too, wonder if there is a direct replacement for the old 
light fixtures available somewhere.

 

 

Rick Brass

Imzadi  C&C 38 mk 2

la Belle Aurore C&C 25 mk1

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
wwadjo...@aol.com   via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 6:44 PM
To: Rick Brass via CnC-List
Subject: Re: Stus-List EasyBlock Mainsheet Traveler

 

Does anyone have source for replacement lens for our teardrop running lights, 
circa 1981?  Orin alternative, experience with replacements(led) I see on 
internet?

Bill Walker

Evening Star

CnC 36

 

 

Sent from my HTC

 

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com