Re: Stus-List Sales tax in Canada
Hi Bill, Just my personal experience... I bought my boat in Quebec, from a Quebec owner, but through a broker. Our purchase price included both PST and GST (2011). The previous owner (Quebec resident) bought the boat from Boston (through a US broker) and had to pay GST upon entry in Quebec (2008). The boat was brought by road and taxes were paid through a "customs broker". I had to present all this documentation when I registered the boat with Transport Canada in 2011 and they were happy with everything. Two weeks ago, when I moved the boat from Quebec to NY, I had to present all these documents at the US customs. They seemed happy with what I showed, but I was a little bit puzzled as to why the US customs would verify this. cheers, Seb -- Sébastien Lemieux Merlot X, C&C 30-2 1988 Lake Champlain > On Jun 17, 2016, at 8:59 , Bill Connon via CnC-List > wrote: > > We've been having a discussion at the marina over sales tax payable in > Canada. One thought is that a sale between two private owners incurs no tax > whereas a sale by a broker brings on PST and GST. Does anybody out there have > definite knowledge, especially where Quebec is involved? ( we still operate > under Napoleonic Civil law) > > Bill > Caprice 1 > > ___ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like > what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions > are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Sales tax in Canada
Many years ago, I purchased a used PY 23. I did not license it. I owned it for 5 years and never received a notice regarding tax and of course, never paid any. When I sold the boat, the new owner paid the tax on his purchase. This caused the authorities to enquire as to when I purchased the boat and how much I paid. Of course, I ended up paying the tax. Just goes to show they will catch up with you eventually. Wayne Anstey Resilience, 1974 C&C 30 mk1 Bedford, NS, Canada Sent from my iPad > On Jun 17, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List > wrote: > > Bill, > > This is definitely not definite knowledge (CRA is the only one, who could > provide you this). > > As far as I know, there is no difference between private sale and brokerage > in terms of if the tax is due or not. The only difference is that if you buy > through a brokerage, the tax is is withheld at the time of purchase (they > have the obligation to do that). If you buy a boat (or anything else) > privately, it is your obligation to comply. CRA may not know about the > transaction, so it may not come after you. However, the fact that they don’t > know, does not mean that the tax is not due. > > Anything that you buy and have to register with any government agency > usually, attract the attention of the tax authorities. So when you buy a car, > you have to pay the tax or they would not issue the plates. With a boat, it > is a bit different, as you usually don’t “register” the boat (in Canada). > Rather, you “licence” it. You don’t need to licence the boat if it not > powered or the motor is under 10 HP (hence, plenty of 9.9 HP motors). I think > there is some length limitation, as well, but I cannot find it. Here is a > link to Transport Canada web site: > https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/debs-obs-paperwork-paperwork_boat_licence-1898.htm. > But if your boat has a bigger engine, you have to license it and this would > trigger a notice to CRA. In my case the provincial tax authorities woke up to > my buying the boat almost full three years after the transaction happened. > Interestingly, the trigger was not my importing it across the border (where I > had to show that the taxes were paid), but my licensing the boat. > > If you buy a smaller boat, you can try hiding under the radar and the > authorities may not find you. However, if they do, you will have some > explaining to do (and a fine to pay). > > Marek > Ottawa, ON > > From: Bill Connon via CnC-List > Sent: Friday, June 17, 2016 09:00 > To: C&C List > Cc: Bill Connon > Subject: Stus-List Sales tax in Canada > > We've been having a discussion at the marina over sales tax payable in > Canada. One thought is that a sale between two private owners incurs no > tax whereas a sale by a broker brings on PST and GST. Does anybody out > there have definite knowledge, especially where Quebec is involved? ( we > still operate under Napoleonic Civil law) > > Bill > Caprice 1 > > ___ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like > what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions > are greatly appreciated! > ___ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like > what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions > are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Sales tax in Canada
Yes, there is sales tax between private owners on boat sales in Canada. I found this out recently. I bought my boat in Ontario three years ago from a private individual...sales tax didn't even enter into my head. Then I dutifully registered the change of ownership with the federal government. Well, 3 years later I received a letter from the Ontario government stating that they had been advised by the federal government that I had a boat and they were wondering whether or not I had paid sales tax! My accountant said that other than making up a fake bill of sale or lying and sending them after the PO, I had no choice other than to pay it. At least they were kind enough not to charge interest. Mike Atacama 33mkii Toronto Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network. Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell. ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Sales tax in Canada
Hi, With respect to Quebec, there is no tax if the boat and owner reside in Quebec and is bought by someone residing in Quebec. If the boat is brought into Quebec from another province there is tax. The selling broker (e.g. Nova Scotia) SHOULD NOT apply sales tax. It is up to the owner to do that themselves within Quebec. If this happens Quebec WILL collect the tax from the new owner, and the new owner will have to pursue getting his/her sales tax back from Nova Scotia (a real mess). /J > On Jun 17, 2016, at 8:59 AM, Bill Connon wrote: > > We've been having a discussion at the marina over sales tax payable in > Canada. One thought is that a sale between two private owners incurs no tax > whereas a sale by a broker brings on PST and GST. Does anybody out there have > definite knowledge, especially where Quebec is involved? ( we still operate > under Napoleonic Civil law) > > Bill > Caprice 1 > > ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Sales tax in Canada
Bill, This is definitely not definite knowledge (CRA is the only one, who could provide you this). As far as I know, there is no difference between private sale and brokerage in terms of if the tax is due or not. The only difference is that if you buy through a brokerage, the tax is is withheld at the time of purchase (they have the obligation to do that). If you buy a boat (or anything else) privately, it is your obligation to comply. CRA may not know about the transaction, so it may not come after you. However, the fact that they don’t know, does not mean that the tax is not due. Anything that you buy and have to register with any government agency usually, attract the attention of the tax authorities. So when you buy a car, you have to pay the tax or they would not issue the plates. With a boat, it is a bit different, as you usually don’t “register” the boat (in Canada). Rather, you “licence” it. You don’t need to licence the boat if it not powered or the motor is under 10 HP (hence, plenty of 9.9 HP motors). I think there is some length limitation, as well, but I cannot find it. Here is a link to Transport Canada web site: https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/debs-obs-paperwork-paperwork_boat_licence-1898.htm. But if your boat has a bigger engine, you have to license it and this would trigger a notice to CRA. In my case the provincial tax authorities woke up to my buying the boat almost full three years after the transaction happened. Interestingly, the trigger was not my importing it across the border (where I had to show that the taxes were paid), but my licensing the boat. If you buy a smaller boat, you can try hiding under the radar and the authorities may not find you. However, if they do, you will have some explaining to do (and a fine to pay). Marek Ottawa, ON From: Bill Connon via CnC-List Sent: Friday, June 17, 2016 09:00 To: C&C List Cc: Bill Connon Subject: Stus-List Sales tax in Canada We've been having a discussion at the marina over sales tax payable in Canada. One thought is that a sale between two private owners incurs no tax whereas a sale by a broker brings on PST and GST. Does anybody out there have definite knowledge, especially where Quebec is involved? ( we still operate under Napoleonic Civil law) Bill Caprice 1 ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Sales tax in Canada
My experience was exactly the same as Peter's. Broker deal - letter in the mail almost two years later. Steve Suhana, C&C 32 Toronto ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Sales tax in Canada
Like Mike said. If you purchase a boat out of Canada, there is no tax payable unless you bring it to Canada, but even a single visit makes the tax payable. It is my understanding that the country of registration makes no difference to the CRS for pleasure vessels, only the actual ownership. I suspect that corporations have legal ways around this, but not us. Steve Thomas C&C27 MKIII Port Stanley, ON P.S. I helped a friend bring a boat that he was importing across from Michigan a few years ago, and Pelee Island had the nearest port. Customs insisted that we dock at the West Dock, where their office is. It was a very calm afternoon, so we complied, but by the time we were done the boat was being ferociously slammed against the wall. Something about the hydrology there amplifies the wave action. If I had to do it again, I would just go to Scudder and call customs from there. The West Dock on Pelee Island is no place for small vessels. - Original Message - From: "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" To: Cc: "Hoyt, Mike" Sent: Friday, June 17, 2016 09:31 Subject: Re: Stus-List Sales tax in Canada A sale between private owners incurs tax in Nova Scotia and likely in the rest of Canada. The only difference between the private sale and using a broker is that the broker usually does this as part of the business procedures vs the private sale where the buyer is supposed to remit it (usually upon registration of the vessel). I know a large number of people who never paid tax on their boats. Rumor has it that some marinas are being visited by officials looking for boats that have not paid the sales tax ... For me personally the last two boats were purchased in the US which required tax to be paid when the boat crossed the border (by land) or the tax invoice triggered by customs inspection (by sea) Mike Persistence Halifax -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Connon via CnC-List Sent: Friday, June 17, 2016 9:59 AM To: C&C List Cc: Bill Connon Subject: Stus-List Sales tax in Canada We've been having a discussion at the marina over sales tax payable in Canada. One thought is that a sale between two private owners incurs no tax whereas a sale by a broker brings on PST and GST. Does anybody out there have definite knowledge, especially where Quebec is involved? ( we still operate under Napoleonic Civil law) Bill Caprice 1 ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Sales tax in Canada
Well my broker informed me the GST was my responsibility. He did the registration paperwork but did not do the tax. He suggested that many never do end up paying the tax but I got the letter in the mail and had to submit a bill-of-sale to verify selling price along with the required tax. I can't recall the specifics of the letter but I think that they gave an amount that the tax would be based on if I didn't provide proof of the purchase price ... and that amount was, in my case, considerably higher than what I had actually paid. -Original Message- From: Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List Sent: Friday, June 17, 2016 6:31 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Hoyt, Mike Subject: Re: Stus-List Sales tax in Canada A sale between private owners incurs tax in Nova Scotia and likely in the rest of Canada. The only difference between the private sale and using a broker is that the broker usually does this as part of the business procedures vs the private sale where the buyer is supposed to remit it (usually upon registration of the vessel). I know a large number of people who never paid tax on their boats. Rumor has it that some marinas are being visited by officials looking for boats that have not paid the sales tax ... For me personally the last two boats were purchased in the US which required tax to be paid when the boat crossed the border (by land) or the tax invoice triggered by customs inspection (by sea) Mike Persistence Halifax -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Connon via CnC-List Sent: Friday, June 17, 2016 9:59 AM To: C&C List Cc: Bill Connon Subject: Stus-List Sales tax in Canada We've been having a discussion at the marina over sales tax payable in Canada. One thought is that a sale between two private owners incurs no tax whereas a sale by a broker brings on PST and GST. Does anybody out there have definite knowledge, especially where Quebec is involved? ( we still operate under Napoleonic Civil law) Bill Caprice 1 ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Sales tax in Canada
A sale between private owners incurs tax in Nova Scotia and likely in the rest of Canada. The only difference between the private sale and using a broker is that the broker usually does this as part of the business procedures vs the private sale where the buyer is supposed to remit it (usually upon registration of the vessel). I know a large number of people who never paid tax on their boats. Rumor has it that some marinas are being visited by officials looking for boats that have not paid the sales tax ... For me personally the last two boats were purchased in the US which required tax to be paid when the boat crossed the border (by land) or the tax invoice triggered by customs inspection (by sea) Mike Persistence Halifax -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Connon via CnC-List Sent: Friday, June 17, 2016 9:59 AM To: C&C List Cc: Bill Connon Subject: Stus-List Sales tax in Canada We've been having a discussion at the marina over sales tax payable in Canada. One thought is that a sale between two private owners incurs no tax whereas a sale by a broker brings on PST and GST. Does anybody out there have definite knowledge, especially where Quebec is involved? ( we still operate under Napoleonic Civil law) Bill Caprice 1 ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Stus-List Sales tax in Canada
We've been having a discussion at the marina over sales tax payable in Canada. One thought is that a sale between two private owners incurs no tax whereas a sale by a broker brings on PST and GST. Does anybody out there have definite knowledge, especially where Quebec is involved? ( we still operate under Napoleonic Civil law) Bill Caprice 1 ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
