Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step
Oh yeah. Couple things out of true there :) Fortunately my bulkhead and mast step do not look like that. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Peter Fell" To: "randy stafford" , "cnc-list" Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 2:31:07 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step Here’s a couple pictures of the one we looked at. The port-side bulkhead shot is a deceiving photo – you don’t get the full effect. But although I said 1-inch before ... looking at the survey it was measured at 3/4-inch. You can also see how the mast step block was shifted, in the other photo. I should point out as well this boat had evidence of re-tabbing of the forward bulkheads in several areas both port and starboard. Perhaps another issue was they didn’t get things lined-up properly when they did it ... why they did it I don’t exactly know. I did discover the boat had been transported from Vancouver BC to Yellowknife, NT and (of course) back again. There’s a large chunk of that road that isn’t even paved. Draw your own conclusions! ... now someone’s going to look at those photos and say ‘Hey, wait a minute ... I bought that boat!’ Peter Fell Sidney, BC Cygnet C&C 27 MkIII From: randy.staff...@comcast.net Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 8:54 PM To: cnc-list Cc: Fell, Peter Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step Thanks Peter. I looked again tonight at the "gap" between bulkhead and floor pan on my boat. There's actually no gap, except at the lower inboard corners of the bulkhead where the door to the head is cut out of the bulkhead. In those corners there's a gap about a half-inch high and a half inch wide, on both sides. Just enough for the edge of a 2'x4' oval throw rug in the head / v-berth to squeeze under. Other than that the bulkhead butts up nicely to the floor pan, hull, deck, cabin top etc. all the way around. Everything is symmetric and looks undamaged. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Peter Fell via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Peter Fell" Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 5:44:45 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step Forgot to include the list in the ‘to’ From: Peter Fell Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 4:43 PM To: randy.staff...@comcast.net Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step That was about 4 years ago and I don’t recall all the fine details of all the discussions I had on the subject. There’s probably some stuff in the archives on it. If I recall correctly the gap was large on the port side and pretty-much non-existent on the starboard side and the mast step (or the pan) was canted off-level. The survey we had done suggested that the rig be de-tensioned to see if the bulkhead came back down. But the surveyor I must admit seemed somewhat baffled by it all. In the end we didn’t de-tension the rig as things started to degrade once the owner, through the broker, had me talk to a ‘C&C expert’ who swore up and down that C&C NEVER used untreated / unsealed plywood in the mast steps of 30-1’s. I think the were multiple things happening here as I said, a mast step well on its way to collapsing, cabin sole pan in that area warping, rig tension and I also suspect that the mast brackets and/or the mast through-holes they were attached to were stretched-out, causing the cabin-top to pull-up under halyard tension at the turning blocks. There were some other less-than-forthcoming responses from the owner and in the end we decided to walk on the deal. So I’m assuming here you still have a gap with the mast out of the boat and I’m also assuming the boat is on the hard at this time and that bulkhead is being used for the support pads? Given there is a gap there, things have moved. Might be hard to line everything back up unless the boat was in the water but I would also think there’d be some ‘memory’ involved there as well. But I would suspect a 1/2-inch gap is probably in the ‘monitor it’ range. Peter Fell Sidney, BC Cygnet C&C 27 MkIII From: randy.staff...@comcast.net Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 2:57 PM To: cnc-list Cc: Peter Fell Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step Thanks Peter. Does a gap between the bulkhead and cabin sole pan necessarily represent a problem? On my boat there's a gap of < 1/2" on each side. There's also some creaking noise from the sole pan in the head / V-berth area when I walk on it which makes me think the fiberglass of the sole pan has broken down some. But according to Don Casey's inspection procedures and advice (plus a professional survey), the hull is in good shape, and the boat is 44 years old... Thanks, Randy - Original Message ----- From: "Peter Fell via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Peter Fell" Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 12:44:27 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List
Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step
Thanks Peter. I looked again tonight at the "gap" between bulkhead and floor pan on my boat. There's actually no gap, except at the lower inboard corners of the bulkhead where the door to the head is cut out of the bulkhead. In those corners there's a gap about a half-inch high and a half inch wide, on both sides. Just enough for the edge of a 2'x4' oval throw rug in the head / v-berth to squeeze under. Other than that the bulkhead butts up nicely to the floor pan, hull, deck, cabin top etc. all the way around. Everything is symmetric and looks undamaged. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Peter Fell via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Peter Fell" Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 5:44:45 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step Forgot to include the list in the ‘to’ From: Peter Fell Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 4:43 PM To: randy.staff...@comcast.net Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step That was about 4 years ago and I don’t recall all the fine details of all the discussions I had on the subject. There’s probably some stuff in the archives on it. If I recall correctly the gap was large on the port side and pretty-much non-existent on the starboard side and the mast step (or the pan) was canted off-level. The survey we had done suggested that the rig be de-tensioned to see if the bulkhead came back down. But the surveyor I must admit seemed somewhat baffled by it all. In the end we didn’t de-tension the rig as things started to degrade once the owner, through the broker, had me talk to a ‘C&C expert’ who swore up and down that C&C NEVER used untreated / unsealed plywood in the mast steps of 30-1’s. I think the were multiple things happening here as I said, a mast step well on its way to collapsing, cabin sole pan in that area warping, rig tension and I also suspect that the mast brackets and/or the mast through-holes they were attached to were stretched-out, causing the cabin-top to pull-up under halyard tension at the turning blocks. There were some other less-than-forthcoming responses from the owner and in the end we decided to walk on the deal. So I’m assuming here you still have a gap with the mast out of the boat and I’m also assuming the boat is on the hard at this time and that bulkhead is being used for the support pads? Given there is a gap there, things have moved. Might be hard to line everything back up unless the boat was in the water but I would also think there’d be some ‘memory’ involved there as well. But I would suspect a 1/2-inch gap is probably in the ‘monitor it’ range. Peter Fell Sidney, BC Cygnet C&C 27 MkIII From: randy.staff...@comcast.net Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 2:57 PM To: cnc-list Cc: Peter Fell Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step Thanks Peter. Does a gap between the bulkhead and cabin sole pan necessarily represent a problem? On my boat there's a gap of < 1/2" on each side. There's also some creaking noise from the sole pan in the head / V-berth area when I walk on it which makes me think the fiberglass of the sole pan has broken down some. But according to Don Casey's inspection procedures and advice (plus a professional survey), the hull is in good shape, and the boat is 44 years old... Thanks, Randy - Original Message - From: "Peter Fell via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Peter Fell" Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 12:44:27 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step Check the whole area of the bulkhead. We had a 30-1 surveyed that turned out to have a sinking mast step and also potentially other issues so that the bulkhead had pulled up out of the cabin sole pan (or the pan had dropped / distorted) by about 1-inch on the port side and to a lesser extend on the starboard. Probably a combination of mast step, mast brackets, shroud tension (and possibly a couple long-distance overland moves that the boat had undertaken). The yard quoted well over $7000 to fix. There is some info / pics of solutions applied to the mast step on the cncphotoalbum site under do-it-yourself for a much more cost-effective fix. Peter Fell Sidney, BC Cygnet C&C 27 MkIII ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step
The 35 MK I shares this flaw. It was a lot of time on my belly chiseling out rotten old wood to fix it. Joe Della Barba j...@dellabarba.com <mailto:j...@dellabarba.com> Coquina C&C 35 MK I From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Edward Levert via CnC-List Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 8:29 PM To: randy.staff...@comcast.net Cc: Edward Levert ; cnc-list Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step Randy: We were delivering the boat back to New Orleans after purchase. I knew of the potential flaw but the surveyor was not able to see the support structure. Had boat itch to replace my C&C 27 lost in Katrina. I took a chance. Close hauled with main and a 110 in 15 kts wind, 30 minutes into the sail I sensed something slipped. Under sail, the pressure on the windward shrouds seemed normal. Sent my son below to check and the report was not good. The mast step collapsed. We killed the sails and headed up Mobile Bay under power. The rig was now loosely goosey as we rolled in the following sea. We tried to stabilize it by squeezing the shrouds together with line. A worrisome 4 hr motor up the bay to the marina complex at Dog River not knowing how or if the butt of the mast was working against the hull. The wood plate under the step fractured as well as some of the transverse members. If you do the repairs yourself, be sure to use pvc pipe to leave access to the forward keel bolt if you fill in the gaps between the stringers. Ed Briar Patch, C&C 34 New Orleans, La On Monday, April 11, 2016, mailto:randy.staff...@comcast.net> > wrote: Thanks Ed. The story at http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/maststep/maststep.htm is informative. Someone who owned the boat before me had already cut a rectangular hole in the cabin sole next to forward port dinette bench, and fashioned a thick wood block to fill the hole and span the two cross supports. They just didn't go so far as to rebuild the cross supports. The above story looks like a reasonable way to do it. So when your step failed, what happened? Did those timbers, and the floor pan, just break, causing your mast to drop 6-9"? Cheers, Randy _ From: "Edward Levert via CnC-List" > To: "cnc-list" > Cc: "Edward Levert" > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 1:57:05 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step Randy: Check the "Do it yourself" section of the Photo Album for a description and a photograph of the repair. My C&C 30 Mk 1, Hull 19(?) had the step fail on the 1st sail. I was in Mobile Bay at the time of failure and had the step rebuilt by a professional who was the Boatwright for the US Olympic teams in China and England. The rebuilt the step is similar to the description in the Photo Album, differing by filling in the gaps between the cross supports with epoxy/filler. Total cost in 2006 was about $1200 plus the cost of mast unstopping/ stepping. The repair required cutting out part of the cabin floor pan to allow access to glass in the new supports. Ed Briar Patch, C&C 34 New Orleans, La. On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Randy Stafford via CnC-List > wrote: Listers- Since the mast is down on my early (hull #7) 30-1, I removed the mast step to inspect beneath. The aluminum step is screwed onto a heavily sealed wood block ~12"x6"x2", which is in turn screwed onto two short timbers running athwartship which I'm sure are intended to take the load of the mast and transfer it to the hull. Those two timbers have been wet and appear to be a rot risk. The PO fitted a heavily sealed wood wedge down into that lowest part of the bilge between the floor timbers, to further support the block under the mast step. My concern is that the wedge will transfer load from the mast onto the top of the keel instead of to the hull via the floor timbers, and thereby contribute to separation of the lead ballast part of the keel from the fiberglass keel stub i.e. the "C&C smile". Do you think this is a legitimate concern? Any thoughts on how to otherwise reinforce the floor timbers or distribute the mast load to the hull? Also that wedge was sitting in bilge water because the automatic bilge pump float switch is a bit aft and a bit higher. Both the automatic and manual bilge pump intake tubes are down there in that lowest part of the bilge, but the manual pump must be more effective at removing that water because of the float switch location. Thanks in advance for any comments. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciat
Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step
Randy: We were delivering the boat back to New Orleans after purchase. I knew of the potential flaw but the surveyor was not able to see the support structure. Had boat itch to replace my C&C 27 lost in Katrina. I took a chance. Close hauled with main and a 110 in 15 kts wind, 30 minutes into the sail I sensed something slipped. Under sail, the pressure on the windward shrouds seemed normal. Sent my son below to check and the report was not good. The mast step collapsed. We killed the sails and headed up Mobile Bay under power. The rig was now loosely goosey as we rolled in the following sea. We tried to stabilize it by squeezing the shrouds together with line. A worrisome 4 hr motor up the bay to the marina complex at Dog River not knowing how or if the butt of the mast was working against the hull. The wood plate under the step fractured as well as some of the transverse members. If you do the repairs yourself, be sure to use pvc pipe to leave access to the forward keel bolt if you fill in the gaps between the stringers. Ed Briar Patch, C&C 34 New Orleans, La On Monday, April 11, 2016, wrote: > Thanks Ed. The story at > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/maststep/maststep.htm is > informative. Someone who owned the boat before me had already cut a > rectangular hole in the cabin sole next to forward port dinette bench, and > fashioned a thick wood block to fill the hole and span the two cross > supports. They just didn't go so far as to rebuild the cross supports. > The above story looks like a reasonable way to do it. > > So when your step failed, what happened? Did those timbers, and the floor > pan, just break, causing your mast to drop 6-9"? > > Cheers, > Randy > > -- > *From: *"Edward Levert via CnC-List" > > *To: *"cnc-list" > > *Cc: *"Edward Levert" > > *Sent: *Monday, April 11, 2016 1:57:05 PM > *Subject: *Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step > > Randy: > > Check the "Do it yourself" section of the Photo Album for a description > and a photograph of the repair. My C&C 30 Mk 1, Hull 19(?) had the step > fail on the 1st sail. I was in Mobile Bay at the time of failure and had > the step rebuilt by a professional who was the Boatwright for the US > Olympic teams in China and England. The rebuilt the step is similar to the > description in the Photo Album, differing by filling in the gaps between > the cross supports with epoxy/filler. Total cost in 2006 was about $1200 > plus the cost of mast unstopping/ stepping. The repair required cutting out > part of the cabin floor pan to allow access to glass in the new supports. > > Ed > Briar Patch, C&C 34 > New Orleans, La. > > On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Randy Stafford via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com > > wrote: > >> Listers- >> >> Since the mast is down on my early (hull #7) 30-1, I removed the mast >> step to inspect beneath. The aluminum step is screwed onto a heavily >> sealed wood block ~12"x6"x2", which is in turn screwed onto two short >> timbers running athwartship which I'm sure are intended to take the load of >> the mast and transfer it to the hull. Those two timbers have been wet and >> appear to be a rot risk. The PO fitted a heavily sealed wood wedge down >> into that lowest part of the bilge between the floor timbers, to further >> support the block under the mast step. >> >> My concern is that the wedge will transfer load from the mast onto the >> top of the keel instead of to the hull via the floor timbers, and thereby >> contribute to separation of the lead ballast part of the keel from the >> fiberglass keel stub i.e. the "C&C smile". Do you think this is a >> legitimate concern? Any thoughts on how to otherwise reinforce the floor >> timbers or distribute the mast load to the hull? >> >> Also that wedge was sitting in bilge water because the automatic bilge >> pump float switch is a bit aft and a bit higher. Both the automatic and >> manual bilge pump intake tubes are down there in that lowest part of the >> bilge, but the manual pump must be more effective at removing that water >> because of the float switch location. >> >> Thanks in advance for any comments. >> >> Cheers, >> Randy Stafford >> S/V Grenadine >> C&C 30-1 #7 >> Ken Caryl, CO >> >> ___ >> >> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you >> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All >> Contributions are greatly appreciated! >> >> > > ___ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you > like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All > Contributions are greatly appreciated! > > ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step
Forgot to include the list in the ‘to’ From: Peter Fell Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 4:43 PM To: randy.staff...@comcast.net Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step That was about 4 years ago and I don’t recall all the fine details of all the discussions I had on the subject. There’s probably some stuff in the archives on it. If I recall correctly the gap was large on the port side and pretty-much non-existent on the starboard side and the mast step (or the pan) was canted off-level. The survey we had done suggested that the rig be de-tensioned to see if the bulkhead came back down. But the surveyor I must admit seemed somewhat baffled by it all. In the end we didn’t de-tension the rig as things started to degrade once the owner, through the broker, had me talk to a ‘C&C expert’ who swore up and down that C&C NEVER used untreated / unsealed plywood in the mast steps of 30-1’s. I think the were multiple things happening here as I said, a mast step well on its way to collapsing, cabin sole pan in that area warping, rig tension and I also suspect that the mast brackets and/or the mast through-holes they were attached to were stretched-out, causing the cabin-top to pull-up under halyard tension at the turning blocks. There were some other less-than-forthcoming responses from the owner and in the end we decided to walk on the deal. So I’m assuming here you still have a gap with the mast out of the boat and I’m also assuming the boat is on the hard at this time and that bulkhead is being used for the support pads? Given there is a gap there, things have moved. Might be hard to line everything back up unless the boat was in the water but I would also think there’d be some ‘memory’ involved there as well. But I would suspect a 1/2-inch gap is probably in the ‘monitor it’ range. Peter Fell Sidney, BC Cygnet C&C 27 MkIII From: randy.staff...@comcast.net Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 2:57 PM To: cnc-list Cc: Peter Fell Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step Thanks Peter. Does a gap between the bulkhead and cabin sole pan necessarily represent a problem? On my boat there's a gap of < 1/2" on each side. There's also some creaking noise from the sole pan in the head / V-berth area when I walk on it which makes me think the fiberglass of the sole pan has broken down some. But according to Don Casey's inspection procedures and advice (plus a professional survey), the hull is in good shape, and the boat is 44 years old... Thanks, Randy From: "Peter Fell via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Peter Fell" Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 12:44:27 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step Check the whole area of the bulkhead. We had a 30-1 surveyed that turned out to have a sinking mast step and also potentially other issues so that the bulkhead had pulled up out of the cabin sole pan (or the pan had dropped / distorted) by about 1-inch on the port side and to a lesser extend on the starboard. Probably a combination of mast step, mast brackets, shroud tension (and possibly a couple long-distance overland moves that the boat had undertaken). The yard quoted well over $7000 to fix. There is some info / pics of solutions applied to the mast step on the cncphotoalbum site under do-it-yourself for a much more cost-effective fix. Peter Fell Sidney, BC Cygnet C&C 27 MkIII ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step
Thanks Peter. Does a gap between the bulkhead and cabin sole pan necessarily represent a problem? On my boat there's a gap of < 1/2" on each side. There's also some creaking noise from the sole pan in the head / V-berth area when I walk on it which makes me think the fiberglass of the sole pan has broken down some. But according to Don Casey's inspection procedures and advice (plus a professional survey), the hull is in good shape, and the boat is 44 years old... Thanks, Randy - Original Message - From: "Peter Fell via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Peter Fell" Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 12:44:27 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step Check the whole area of the bulkhead. We had a 30-1 surveyed that turned out to have a sinking mast step and also potentially other issues so that the bulkhead had pulled up out of the cabin sole pan (or the pan had dropped / distorted) by about 1-inch on the port side and to a lesser extend on the starboard. Probably a combination of mast step, mast brackets, shroud tension (and possibly a couple long-distance overland moves that the boat had undertaken). The yard quoted well over $7000 to fix. There is some info / pics of solutions applied to the mast step on the cncphotoalbum site under do-it-yourself for a much more cost-effective fix. Peter Fell Sidney, BC Cygnet C&C 27 MkIII ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step
Thanks Ed. The story at http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/maststep/maststep.htm is informative. Someone who owned the boat before me had already cut a rectangular hole in the cabin sole next to forward port dinette bench, and fashioned a thick wood block to fill the hole and span the two cross supports. They just didn't go so far as to rebuild the cross supports. The above story looks like a reasonable way to do it. So when your step failed, what happened? Did those timbers, and the floor pan, just break, causing your mast to drop 6-9"? Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Edward Levert via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Edward Levert" Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 1:57:05 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step Randy: Check the "Do it yourself" section of the Photo Album for a description and a photograph of the repair. My C&C 30 Mk 1, Hull 19(?) had the step fail on the 1st sail. I was in Mobile Bay at the time of failure and had the step rebuilt by a professional who was the Boatwright for the US Olympic teams in China and England. The rebuilt the step is similar to the description in the Photo Album, differing by filling in the gaps between the cross supports with epoxy/filler. Total cost in 2006 was about $1200 plus the cost of mast unstopping/ stepping. The repair required cutting out part of the cabin floor pan to allow access to glass in the new supports. Ed Briar Patch, C&C 34 New Orleans, La. On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Randy Stafford via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: Listers- Since the mast is down on my early (hull #7) 30-1, I removed the mast step to inspect beneath. The aluminum step is screwed onto a heavily sealed wood block ~12"x6"x2", which is in turn screwed onto two short timbers running athwartship which I'm sure are intended to take the load of the mast and transfer it to the hull. Those two timbers have been wet and appear to be a rot risk. The PO fitted a heavily sealed wood wedge down into that lowest part of the bilge between the floor timbers, to further support the block under the mast step. My concern is that the wedge will transfer load from the mast onto the top of the keel instead of to the hull via the floor timbers, and thereby contribute to separation of the lead ballast part of the keel from the fiberglass keel stub i.e. the "C&C smile". Do you think this is a legitimate concern? Any thoughts on how to otherwise reinforce the floor timbers or distribute the mast load to the hull? Also that wedge was sitting in bilge water because the automatic bilge pump float switch is a bit aft and a bit higher. Both the automatic and manual bilge pump intake tubes are down there in that lowest part of the bilge, but the manual pump must be more effective at removing that water because of the float switch location. Thanks in advance for any comments. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step
Randy: Check the "Do it yourself" section of the Photo Album for a description and a photograph of the repair. My C&C 30 Mk 1, Hull 19(?) had the step fail on the 1st sail. I was in Mobile Bay at the time of failure and had the step rebuilt by a professional who was the Boatwright for the US Olympic teams in China and England. The rebuilt the step is similar to the description in the Photo Album, differing by filling in the gaps between the cross supports with epoxy/filler. Total cost in 2006 was about $1200 plus the cost of mast unstopping/ stepping. The repair required cutting out part of the cabin floor pan to allow access to glass in the new supports. Ed Briar Patch, C&C 34 New Orleans, La. On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Randy Stafford via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Listers- > > Since the mast is down on my early (hull #7) 30-1, I removed the mast step > to inspect beneath. The aluminum step is screwed onto a heavily sealed > wood block ~12"x6"x2", which is in turn screwed onto two short timbers > running athwartship which I'm sure are intended to take the load of the > mast and transfer it to the hull. Those two timbers have been wet and > appear to be a rot risk. The PO fitted a heavily sealed wood wedge down > into that lowest part of the bilge between the floor timbers, to further > support the block under the mast step. > > My concern is that the wedge will transfer load from the mast onto the top > of the keel instead of to the hull via the floor timbers, and thereby > contribute to separation of the lead ballast part of the keel from the > fiberglass keel stub i.e. the "C&C smile". Do you think this is a > legitimate concern? Any thoughts on how to otherwise reinforce the floor > timbers or distribute the mast load to the hull? > > Also that wedge was sitting in bilge water because the automatic bilge > pump float switch is a bit aft and a bit higher. Both the automatic and > manual bilge pump intake tubes are down there in that lowest part of the > bilge, but the manual pump must be more effective at removing that water > because of the float switch location. > > Thanks in advance for any comments. > > Cheers, > Randy Stafford > S/V Grenadine > C&C 30-1 #7 > Ken Caryl, CO > > ___ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you > like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All > Contributions are greatly appreciated! > > ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step
Thanks Gary. I had read about this issue in http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/reviews/review30mk1.htm before I bought my boat. But I didn't know for certain whether it affected my particular boat until I was able to remove the mast step and inspect. When I surveyed the boat, the rig was up, so I couldn't check it then. I knew the PO had done some kind of reinforcement there, but I didn't know it was a wedge sitting atop the keel. I'll have a look at the list archives on this issue and maybe implement a different fix next off-season (I'm not sure I'm a fan of the wedge). Meanwhile I'll monitor for downward deflection this season, and use the manual bilge pump every visit. I'm only 20 minutes away from the boat and will be down there at least twice a week all season, and can go down specially after big rains. Thanks Again, Randy - Original Message - From: "Gary Nylander via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Gary Nylander" Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 11:49:44 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step Randy, you have stumbled onto the major flaw in the construction on the 30-1. There have been many discussions on this site about the mast step. Some owners have filled this low part of the sump with fiberglass, others (me and….) have strengthened or replaced those cross supports. The big flaw is when they built the boat, they did not seal the bottom of those supports, so they have been sucking up any bilge water which gets that high (easy) and rotting. The other issue, as you have found, is the location of the bilge pump down in the low part of the sump. A decent sized one won’t fit. One with a remote switch won’t fit. So, the first issue is to find a pump which will go down that low. I am using a small Rule pump, directly wired to a switch on the DC panel. That way, I can get almost all the water out. Fortunately I live close to the boat, so can go down there and pump after each rain. I drilled a bunch of holes in the cross members and filled them with G-Flex, and then built the tops up to make them all level. Others have cut them out and replaced them with new and/or fiberglass ones. If you leave them as is, you will eventually have a sinking mast – mine was down about half an inch. Another way to keep that area dry is to get a pump with an inlet hose and which is self-priming. Contact me offline for more discussion, but look through the archives, there have been many discussions. Gary 30-1 #593 gnylan...@atlanticbb.net From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy Stafford via CnC-List Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 1:13 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net Subject: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step Listers- Since the mast is down on my early (hull #7) 30-1, I removed the mast step to inspect beneath. The aluminum step is screwed onto a heavily sealed wood block ~12"x6"x2", which is in turn screwed onto two short timbers running athwartship which I'm sure are intended to take the load of the mast and transfer it to the hull. Those two timbers have been wet and appear to be a rot risk. The PO fitted a heavily sealed wood wedge down into that lowest part of the bilge between the floor timbers, to further support the block under the mast step. My concern is that the wedge will transfer load from the mast onto the top of the keel instead of to the hull via the floor timbers, and thereby contribute to separation of the lead ballast part of the keel from the fiberglass keel stub i.e. the "C&C smile". Do you think this is a legitimate concern? Any thoughts on how to otherwise reinforce the floor timbers or distribute the mast load to the hull? Also that wedge was sitting in bilge water because the automatic bilge pump float switch is a bit aft and a bit higher. Both the automatic and manual bilge pump intake tubes are down there in that lowest part of the bilge, but the manual pump must be more effective at removing that water because of the float switch location. Thanks in advance for any comments. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step
Check the whole area of the bulkhead. We had a 30-1 surveyed that turned out to have a sinking mast step and also potentially other issues so that the bulkhead had pulled up out of the cabin sole pan (or the pan had dropped / distorted) by about 1-inch on the port side and to a lesser extend on the starboard. Probably a combination of mast step, mast brackets, shroud tension (and possibly a couple long-distance overland moves that the boat had undertaken). The yard quoted well over $7000 to fix. There is some info / pics of solutions applied to the mast step on the cncphotoalbum site under do-it-yourself for a much more cost-effective fix. Peter Fell Sidney, BC Cygnet C&C 27 MkIII___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step
Randy, you have stumbled onto the major flaw in the construction on the 30-1. There have been many discussions on this site about the mast step. Some owners have filled this low part of the sump with fiberglass, others (me and….) have strengthened or replaced those cross supports. The big flaw is when they built the boat, they did not seal the bottom of those supports, so they have been sucking up any bilge water which gets that high (easy) and rotting. The other issue, as you have found, is the location of the bilge pump down in the low part of the sump. A decent sized one won’t fit. One with a remote switch won’t fit. So, the first issue is to find a pump which will go down that low. I am using a small Rule pump, directly wired to a switch on the DC panel. That way, I can get almost all the water out. Fortunately I live close to the boat, so can go down there and pump after each rain. I drilled a bunch of holes in the cross members and filled them with G-Flex, and then built the tops up to make them all level. Others have cut them out and replaced them with new and/or fiberglass ones. If you leave them as is, you will eventually have a sinking mast – mine was down about half an inch. Another way to keep that area dry is to get a pump with an inlet hose and which is self-priming. Contact me offline for more discussion, but look through the archives, there have been many discussions. Gary 30-1 #593 gnylan...@atlanticbb.net From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy Stafford via CnC-List Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 1:13 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net Subject: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step Listers- Since the mast is down on my early (hull #7) 30-1, I removed the mast step to inspect beneath. The aluminum step is screwed onto a heavily sealed wood block ~12"x6"x2", which is in turn screwed onto two short timbers running athwartship which I'm sure are intended to take the load of the mast and transfer it to the hull. Those two timbers have been wet and appear to be a rot risk. The PO fitted a heavily sealed wood wedge down into that lowest part of the bilge between the floor timbers, to further support the block under the mast step. My concern is that the wedge will transfer load from the mast onto the top of the keel instead of to the hull via the floor timbers, and thereby contribute to separation of the lead ballast part of the keel from the fiberglass keel stub i.e. the "C&C smile". Do you think this is a legitimate concern? Any thoughts on how to otherwise reinforce the floor timbers or distribute the mast load to the hull? Also that wedge was sitting in bilge water because the automatic bilge pump float switch is a bit aft and a bit higher. Both the automatic and manual bilge pump intake tubes are down there in that lowest part of the bilge, but the manual pump must be more effective at removing that water because of the float switch location. Thanks in advance for any comments. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step
Listers- Since the mast is down on my early (hull #7) 30-1, I removed the mast step to inspect beneath. The aluminum step is screwed onto a heavily sealed wood block ~12"x6"x2", which is in turn screwed onto two short timbers running athwartship which I'm sure are intended to take the load of the mast and transfer it to the hull. Those two timbers have been wet and appear to be a rot risk. The PO fitted a heavily sealed wood wedge down into that lowest part of the bilge between the floor timbers, to further support the block under the mast step. My concern is that the wedge will transfer load from the mast onto the top of the keel instead of to the hull via the floor timbers, and thereby contribute to separation of the lead ballast part of the keel from the fiberglass keel stub i.e. the "C&C smile". Do you think this is a legitimate concern? Any thoughts on how to otherwise reinforce the floor timbers or distribute the mast load to the hull? Also that wedge was sitting in bilge water because the automatic bilge pump float switch is a bit aft and a bit higher. Both the automatic and manual bilge pump intake tubes are down there in that lowest part of the bilge, but the manual pump must be more effective at removing that water because of the float switch location. Thanks in advance for any comments. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
