Re: Stus-List Water tank x-connect

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

So after some further investigation, all the tanks lead to a 4-way junction
below the floor board access at the bottom of the companionway stairs.
There are no valves or other separations between the three tanks.  The 4th
leg of the junction goes to a valve and then to one of the galley sink
"faucets".

I still don't get it.  I guess the PO had a use for it all.  Here I was
thinking that there was a good engineering reason for tying the tanks
together.

It's gone now.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Sep 9, 2015 12:14 PM, "Josh Muckley" <muckl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Rick,
>
> Thanks for the response.  I guess I'm not communicating my setup very
> well.  I have a standard deck fill dedicated for each tank.  Each tank also
> has a vent which exits the hull of the boat below the respective deck
> fill.  I also have an outlet which goes to a 4 valve manifold and then to
> the suction side of the fresh water pump.  This way I can select which tank
> to use (take suction from).  All of this seems pretty normal and makes
> plenty of sense.  The last part is where the confusion begins.  Each tank
> has a fitting near the top and a pipe that is the same size as the vent and
> outlet.  All of the tanks are connected solely to one another via this
> fitting and pipe.  Since the pipe is routed down and under it creates a
> u-bend or trap between the tanks.  If the water level in a tank is less
> than the height of this cross connect fitting then water is not cross
> connected.  If, on the other hand the tank is full then it will "overflow"
> through the cross connect u-bend to one of the other tanks.
>
> Josh
> On Sep 9, 2015 11:01 AM, "Rick Brass via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> wrote:
>
>> As far as I can see, the only problem with not cross connecting the water
>> tanks would be the resulting complexity of your fresh water system and the
>> need to get access to all the valves every time you want to change tanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> You will need a line from each tank to the inlet of your fresh water
>> pressure pump, and to each of the foot pumps on your boat. In addition, you
>> would want to put a selector valve on the inlet of each pump – though I
>> suppose you could use the water shutoff valve at the outlet of each tank to
>> shut off the tank and isolate it from the rest of the water system. If you
>> don’t put in some sort of valve to stop flow from the tank you do not
>> intend to use to the pump, your tanks will still be cross connected; water
>> will flow from the tank which is more full to the tank with the lower water
>> level at through the connection just before the pump inlet.
>>
>>
>>
>> My 38 has 2 40 gallon tanks – one under each settee. There is a separate
>> fill and vent for each. There is a shutoff valve in the outlet for each.
>> Then water flows through a ½” hose to a “T” fitting under the cabin sole.
>> The other two ½” hoses go forward and back to the sinks. The hose to the
>> sink in the head forward goes to a foot pump. The line to the galley sink
>> is the supply to the fresh water pressure pump, and also to the foot pump.
>>
>>
>>
>> The cross connection is down in the bilge, so even when heeled with
>> mostly empty tanks the water in the tanks is above the suction line to the
>> pump. If you are using only one tank, that tank is mostly empty, and the
>> boat is heeled to that side, there is at least the possibility that there
>> would not be water flow to the inlet of the water pump. Drawing water from
>> the low side of the boat is not necessarily a bad thing.
>>
>>
>>
>> As far as filling all tanks from a single deck fill, the would be true in
>> theory. But the cross connect through a ½” hose like mine would take a long
>> time. The water into the deck fill through the garden hose would be a heck
>> of a lot more than the gravity fed ½” connection could carry.
>>
>>
>>
>> All that said, there are times when you might want to keep one tank dry.
>> I have 5 heavy batteries and a fair bit of added cabinetwork on the port
>> side of my boat. Hence the boat rests with about a 2 degree list to port. I
>> hit upon the idea of not using the port water tank the last time the tanks
>> ran down, and shut off the valve on the outlet of the tank. That way the
>> weight of the water in the starboard tank will offset some of the weight of
>> the stuff to port, which took care of most of the list, and having only 40
>> gaallons of water is not much of a problem when not cruising.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Rick Brass
>>
>> 

Stus-List Water tank x connect

[Mitchell's via CnC-List]

Josh, It may have been the PO's DIY winterizing solution. Our PO had a 
complicated hose system where he pumped air into the head sink faucet to bleed 
the 3 tank water system and piping. 
Just a guess! 
Len Mitchell
1989 37+


Sent from my mobile device.
___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Water tank x connect

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Len, That's the best guess I've heard so far.
On Sep 10, 2015 4:32 PM, "Mitchell's via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Josh, It may have been the PO's DIY winterizing solution. Our PO had a
> complicated hose system where he pumped air into the head sink faucet to
> bleed the 3 tank water system and piping.
> Just a guess!
> Len Mitchell
> 1989 37+
>
>
> Sent from my mobile device.
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Water tank x-connect

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Rick,

Thanks for the response.  I guess I'm not communicating my setup very
well.  I have a standard deck fill dedicated for each tank.  Each tank also
has a vent which exits the hull of the boat below the respective deck
fill.  I also have an outlet which goes to a 4 valve manifold and then to
the suction side of the fresh water pump.  This way I can select which tank
to use (take suction from).  All of this seems pretty normal and makes
plenty of sense.  The last part is where the confusion begins.  Each tank
has a fitting near the top and a pipe that is the same size as the vent and
outlet.  All of the tanks are connected solely to one another via this
fitting and pipe.  Since the pipe is routed down and under it creates a
u-bend or trap between the tanks.  If the water level in a tank is less
than the height of this cross connect fitting then water is not cross
connected.  If, on the other hand the tank is full then it will "overflow"
through the cross connect u-bend to one of the other tanks.

Josh
On Sep 9, 2015 11:01 AM, "Rick Brass via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:

> As far as I can see, the only problem with not cross connecting the water
> tanks would be the resulting complexity of your fresh water system and the
> need to get access to all the valves every time you want to change tanks.
>
>
>
> You will need a line from each tank to the inlet of your fresh water
> pressure pump, and to each of the foot pumps on your boat. In addition, you
> would want to put a selector valve on the inlet of each pump – though I
> suppose you could use the water shutoff valve at the outlet of each tank to
> shut off the tank and isolate it from the rest of the water system. If you
> don’t put in some sort of valve to stop flow from the tank you do not
> intend to use to the pump, your tanks will still be cross connected; water
> will flow from the tank which is more full to the tank with the lower water
> level at through the connection just before the pump inlet.
>
>
>
> My 38 has 2 40 gallon tanks – one under each settee. There is a separate
> fill and vent for each. There is a shutoff valve in the outlet for each.
> Then water flows through a ½” hose to a “T” fitting under the cabin sole.
> The other two ½” hoses go forward and back to the sinks. The hose to the
> sink in the head forward goes to a foot pump. The line to the galley sink
> is the supply to the fresh water pressure pump, and also to the foot pump.
>
>
>
> The cross connection is down in the bilge, so even when heeled with mostly
> empty tanks the water in the tanks is above the suction line to the pump.
> If you are using only one tank, that tank is mostly empty, and the boat is
> heeled to that side, there is at least the possibility that there would not
> be water flow to the inlet of the water pump. Drawing water from the low
> side of the boat is not necessarily a bad thing.
>
>
>
> As far as filling all tanks from a single deck fill, the would be true in
> theory. But the cross connect through a ½” hose like mine would take a long
> time. The water into the deck fill through the garden hose would be a heck
> of a lot more than the gravity fed ½” connection could carry.
>
>
>
> All that said, there are times when you might want to keep one tank dry. I
> have 5 heavy batteries and a fair bit of added cabinetwork on the port side
> of my boat. Hence the boat rests with about a 2 degree list to port. I hit
> upon the idea of not using the port water tank the last time the tanks ran
> down, and shut off the valve on the outlet of the tank. That way the weight
> of the water in the starboard tank will offset some of the weight of the
> stuff to port, which took care of most of the list, and having only 40
> gaallons of water is not much of a problem when not cruising.
>
>
>
>
>
> Rick Brass
>
> Washington, NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
> Muckley via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 08, 2015 2:55 PM
> *To:* C List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> *Cc:* Josh Muckley <muckl...@gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Stus-List Water tank x-connect
>
>
>
> So I'm doing some water tank work and I've confirmed what I already
> suspected.  My tanks are cross vented to one another through a low point
> loop.  It appears that I could in theory fill all my tanks from one deck
> fill port despite having a fill port for each of my tanks.  I'm thinking
> that tracking tank level is a challenge when they are all sluicing between
> one another.
>
> This doesn't seem advantageous.  Why would the manufacturer do this.  Is
> there a problem with me undoing it?
>
> Josh Muc

Re: Stus-List Water tank x-connect

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

As far as I can see, the only problem with not cross connecting the water tanks 
would be the resulting complexity of your fresh water system and the need to 
get access to all the valves every time you want to change tanks. 

 

You will need a line from each tank to the inlet of your fresh water pressure 
pump, and to each of the foot pumps on your boat. In addition, you would want 
to put a selector valve on the inlet of each pump – though I suppose you could 
use the water shutoff valve at the outlet of each tank to shut off the tank and 
isolate it from the rest of the water system. If you don’t put in some sort of 
valve to stop flow from the tank you do not intend to use to the pump, your 
tanks will still be cross connected; water will flow from the tank which is 
more full to the tank with the lower water level at through the connection just 
before the pump inlet.

 

My 38 has 2 40 gallon tanks – one under each settee. There is a separate fill 
and vent for each. There is a shutoff valve in the outlet for each. Then water 
flows through a ½” hose to a “T” fitting under the cabin sole. The other two ½” 
hoses go forward and back to the sinks. The hose to the sink in the head 
forward goes to a foot pump. The line to the galley sink is the supply to the 
fresh water pressure pump, and also to the foot pump.

 

The cross connection is down in the bilge, so even when heeled with mostly 
empty tanks the water in the tanks is above the suction line to the pump. If 
you are using only one tank, that tank is mostly empty, and the boat is heeled 
to that side, there is at least the possibility that there would not be water 
flow to the inlet of the water pump. Drawing water from the low side of the 
boat is not necessarily a bad thing. 

 

As far as filling all tanks from a single deck fill, the would be true in 
theory. But the cross connect through a ½” hose like mine would take a long 
time. The water into the deck fill through the garden hose would be a heck of a 
lot more than the gravity fed ½” connection could carry.

 

All that said, there are times when you might want to keep one tank dry. I have 
5 heavy batteries and a fair bit of added cabinetwork on the port side of my 
boat. Hence the boat rests with about a 2 degree list to port. I hit upon the 
idea of not using the port water tank the last time the tanks ran down, and 
shut off the valve on the outlet of the tank. That way the weight of the water 
in the starboard tank will offset some of the weight of the stuff to port, 
which took care of most of the list, and having only 40 gaallons of water is 
not much of a problem when not cruising.

 

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2015 2:55 PM
To: C List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Josh Muckley <muckl...@gmail.com>
Subject: Stus-List Water tank x-connect

 

So I'm doing some water tank work and I've confirmed what I already suspected.  
My tanks are cross vented to one another through a low point loop.  It appears 
that I could in theory fill all my tanks from one deck fill port despite having 
a fill port for each of my tanks.  I'm thinking that tracking tank level is a 
challenge when they are all sluicing between one another.

This doesn't seem advantageous.  Why would the manufacturer do this.  Is there 
a problem with me undoing it?

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD 

___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Stus-List Water tank x-connect

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

So I'm doing some water tank work and I've confirmed what I already
suspected.  My tanks are cross vented to one another through a low point
loop.  It appears that I could in theory fill all my tanks from one deck
fill port despite having a fill port for each of my tanks.  I'm thinking
that tracking tank level is a challenge when they are all sluicing between
one another.

This doesn't seem advantageous.  Why would the manufacturer do this.  Is
there a problem with me undoing it?

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD
___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Water tank x-connect

[Robert Boyer via CnC-List]

On my LF38, all three tanks have their own individual vent as they should.  The 
vent line follows the inlet hose and exits the hull just below each fill 
connection on the deck.  The original vent lines are 3/8" gray plastic piping.

A good venting system is necessary to get good flow into and out of the tank as 
well as insuring that the water pump does not pull a vacuum on the tank and 
cause it to implode--I have seen this happen on poorly vented holding tanks 
when emptied.

Bob
LF38 "Rainy Days"

On Sep 8, 2015, at 2:55 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List wrote:

> So I'm doing some water tank work and I've confirmed what I already 
> suspected.  My tanks are cross vented to one another through a low point 
> loop.  It appears that I could in theory fill all my tanks from one deck fill 
> port despite having a fill port for each of my tanks.  I'm thinking that 
> tracking tank level is a challenge when they are all sluicing between one 
> another.
> 
> This doesn't seem advantageous.  Why would the manufacturer do this.  Is 
> there a problem with me undoing it?
> 
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> 
> ___
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
> of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> 

Bob Boyer
S/V Rainy Days (1983 C Landfall 38 - Hull #230)
email: dainyr...@icloud.com
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com

"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply 
messing about in boats." --Kenneth Grahame

___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Stus-List Water tank x-connect

[Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List]

Hi Josh, 

It seems strange, isn't there an overflow / vent chrome cap on the hull 
about 1 foot right under each tank filler?   Also, don't you have the 
"Gardena" control manifold somewhere near your fresh water pressure pump?  
With the manifold you should be able to decide which tank gets used when.. 
 

If your boat doesn't have the manifold that would be an easy thing to 
retrofit..  It looks like Gardena no longer makes it but something like 
this would do the trick..  
http://www.smarthome.com/claber-8581-4-way-garden-hose-distributor-valve.html?src=Froogle=Cj0KEQjwjrqvBRD6wf2fy-C61PIBEiQAUzKQTqBZo6oxmmCdI2986DJz5Ad57U5uQ_BWwlMV4-dN0lsaAspZ8P8HAQ

On my boat the tanks are under the settees on either side of the cabin. 
They are clear plastic with a large inspection port on top.. It's pretty 
easy to remove the settee cushion / open the port and see exactly how much 
water is left. 

I can show pictures of my setup if you want. 

Regards, 

François Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA


From: Josh Muckley <muckl...@gmail.com>
To: "C List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Subject: Stus-List Water tank x-connect
Message-ID:
 <CA+zaCRB6oCYjir5gN0Jus=7dqev_nsvmj66+en69uypsylk...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

So I'm doing some water tank work and I've confirmed what I already
suspected.  My tanks are cross vented to one another through a low point
loop.  It appears that I could in theory fill all my tanks from one deck
fill port despite having a fill port for each of my tanks.  I'm thinking
that tracking tank level is a challenge when they are all sluicing between
one another.

This doesn't seem advantageous.  Why would the manufacturer do this.  Is
there a problem with me undoing it?

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD


___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Water tank x-connect

[svpegasus38]

On Pegasus all 3 tanks have a common vent that exists at the head sink. I 
wouldn't want an external vent for my potable water, due the possibility of sea 
water contamination. I fill my tanks starting with the port tank.  Which is the 
farthest from the vent. 
Doug MountjoysvPegasusLF38 just west of Ballard, WA.




-- Original message--From: Robert Boyer via CnC-ListDate: Tue, Sep 8, 
2015 12:22To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com;Cc: Robert Boyer;Subject:Re: Stus-List 
Water tank x-connect
On my LF38, all three tanks have their own individual vent as they should.  The 
vent line follows the inlet hose and exits the hull just below each fill 
connection on the deck.  The original vent lines are 3/8" gray plastic piping.
A good venting system is necessary to get good flow into and out of the tank as 
well as insuring that the water pump does not pull a vacuum on the tank and 
cause it to implode--I have seen this happen on poorly vented holding tanks 
when emptied.
BobLF38 "Rainy Days"
On Sep 8, 2015, at 2:55 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List wrote:
So I'm doing some water tank work and I've confirmed what I already suspected.  
My tanks are cross vented to one another through a low point loop.  It appears 
that I could in theory fill all my tanks from one deck fill port despite having 
a fill port for each of my tanks.  I'm thinking that tracking tank level is a 
challenge when they are all sluicing between one another.This doesn't seem 
advantageous.  Why would the manufacturer do this.  Is there a problem with me 
undoing it?Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD ___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com


Bob Boyer
S/V Rainy Days (1983 C Landfall 38 - Hull #230)
email: dainyrays@icloud.comblog: dainyrays.blogspot.com

"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply 
messing about in boats." --Kenneth Grahame


___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Water tank x-connect

[David via CnC-List]

Sea water incursion happened to us on the way back from Bermuda in 2009.  Half 
the water supply gone.  Now we switch to internal vents after filling when 
going offshore.



David F. Risch
1981 40-2
(401) 419-4650 (cell)


Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 13:53:36 -0700
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Water tank x-connect
From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
CC: svpegasu...@gmail.com








On Pegasus all 3 tanks have a common vent that exists at the head sink. I 
wouldn't want an external vent for my potable water, due the possibility of sea 
water contamination. I fill my tanks starting with the port tank.  Which is the 
farthest from the vent. 
Doug MountjoysvPegasusLF38 just west of Ballard, WA.




-- Original message--From: Robert Boyer via CnC-ListDate: Tue, Sep 8, 
2015 12:22To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com;Cc: Robert Boyer;Subject:Re: Stus-List 
Water tank x-connect
On my LF38, all three tanks have their own individual vent as they should.  The 
vent line follows the inlet hose and exits the hull just below each fill 
connection on the deck.  The original vent lines are 3/8" gray plastic piping.
A good venting system is necessary to get good flow into and out of the tank as 
well as insuring that the water pump does not pull a vacuum on the tank and 
cause it to implode--I have seen this happen on poorly vented holding tanks 
when emptied.
BobLF38 "Rainy Days"
On Sep 8, 2015, at 2:55 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List wrote:So I'm doing some 
water tank work and I've confirmed what I already suspected.  My tanks are 
cross vented to one another through a low point loop.  It appears that I could 
in theory fill all my tanks from one deck fill port despite having a fill port 
for each of my tanks.  I'm thinking that tracking tank level is a challenge 
when they are all sluicing between one another.This doesn't seem advantageous.  
Why would the manufacturer do this.  Is there a problem with me undoing it?Josh 
Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD ___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com


Bob Boyer
S/V Rainy Days (1983 C Landfall 38 - Hull #230)
email: dainyrays@icloud.comblog: dainyrays.blogspot.com

"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply 
messing about in boats." --Kenneth Grahame



___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com  
  ___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com