Stus-List Universal M4-30 air filter

[Len Mitchell via CnC-List]

David, Just thought I would share, I have a Universal M35 and always had oil 
spray and an odour of oil in the engine compartment. I put an automotive style 
catch can from Jeggs and a better air filter on the engine from K&N which 
completely solved the problem. I get about 1/2 ounce of oil a year in the catch 
can rather than what you are experiencing. A little oil goes a long way so it’s 
important to figure out how much oil you are getting, to know if you have 
engine problems or not. Cleaning the filter is a regular maintenance thing same 
as any engine. I don’t use my engine as much as some but if you took 1/2 ounce 
x the number of years between cleanings, you may or may not have an engine 
issue. I would start with a simple catch can and go from there specially if you 
aren’t having to add oil. 

Len Mitchell
Crazy Legs
1989 C&C 37+
Midland On
Sent from my iPad
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Re: Stus-List universal m4-30 air filter

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

David;

 

One of the things I like about Westerbeke/Universal is that all the technical 
information (parts, maintenance, installation, tech bulletins, etc.) on their 
engines are free downloads from the Westerbeke/Universal website. It’s raining 
like a cow whizzing on a flat rock in eastern North Carolina today, so out of 
curiosity I looked at the parts manual for your M4-30.

 

As originally built, the M4-30 had a breather tube that came out of the top of 
the valve cover and ran down the side of the engine and vented at or near the 
level of the oil pan. A lot – perhaps all – engines had a similar arrangement 
in the days before emission controls. Inside the valve cover is a metal plate 
that hold what appears to be a foam block breather filter. The foam block would 
have trapped any liquid oil splashing off the valve train and allowed it to  
drain back into the system when the engine was off. With a good seal on the 
valve seats and unworn valve guides, there would have been very little “blow 
by” of gasses from the cylinder and the inside of the valve cover would have 
been essentially at atmospheric pressure; hence negligible fluid coming out of 
the breather tube.

 

If I’m correct, the M25 seems to be the current production replacement for your 
M4-30. The M25 shares the same breather arrangement as my M35B, which has a 
breather tube that exits the valve cover and is routed to make contact with the 
outside surface of the “air cleaner” (which is essentially a metal housing 
stuffed with wire mesh (think course steel wool). Breather gasses are sucked 
back into the engine through the “air cleaner”. Sort of like the EGR valve 
arrangement you find on gasoline engines post emissions regulations. 

 

Inside the valve cover of the M25 is a foam block similar to what is in your 
engine. In addition there is a “breather valve” whose purpose seems to be to 
vent air into the valve cover to prevent negative pressure (suction) from being 
created by the breather tube.

 

I suspect what is happening with your engine is that the connection to the air 
cleaner is creating suction in the vent tube, and that the foam block has 
deteriorated or gotten so saturated with engine oil that oil is getting drawn 
into the air cleaner housing. Perhaps the current arrangement was installed by 
a PO, or maybe there is a service bulletin on the Universal website that covers 
what you have installed. (Although the manuals for the M4-30A, M25XP and M25XPA 
all show a similar breather tube arrangement going down to the level of the oil 
pan.)

 

Anyway, I think I would try removing the valve cover and checking on the 
condition of the foam block, or maybe just replacing it on general principals. 
The part number is 301237.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David Knecht 
via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2018 10:24 PM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Cc: David Knecht 
Subject: Stus-List universal m4-30 air filter

 

I removed the air filter holder from my engine today to check on whether it 
needed cleaning and was surprised to find the filter soaked in oil and a 
significant amount of oil inside the housing.  I found there was a tygon/rubber 
tube running from a fitting on the top of the engine that ended just above the 
air filter housing and had dripped oil such that it then ran into the case.  

 

1.  What is this tube and what it is connected to?  I can’t find it in my 
Universal manual.  Oil pressure relief?  If so, why would oil be coming out of 
it?  I had not noticed the engine oil being low, so I don’t think it is always 
leaking, but not sure.

2.  Where should the tube go?  It seems like it will create a mess whereever it 
goes but I presume it is supposed to drain into the the space below the engine, 
but it is too short to do that effectively.  Dave

 

Aries

1990 C&C 34+

New London, CT




 

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Re: Stus-List universal m4-30 air filter

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Maybe.  I didn't perceive that from your original description.  If it
doesn't terminate in the presence of the suction from the air intake then
even the oil drop out canister won't be able to fix the problem.

Josh

On Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 9:26 AM David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi Josh- I don’t have a port on the side of the air intake.  The orginal
> hose was just dangling nearby.  I notice that there is a small wire loop
> near the air intake opening that is about the right size for the tubing.
> Perhaps it was originally held in place by that?  Dave
>
> On Apr 23, 2018, at 8:22 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> The can only has 2 lines that enter at the top.  As you observed one comes
> from the valve cover.  The other goes to the original port on the side of
> the air intake.  The 2 hoses that appear to be coming from the bottom are
> engine raw water running to a loop seal which is mounted on the wall behind
> the oil canister.
>
> Josh
>
> On Apr 23, 2018 7:46 AM, "David Knecht via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Josh- Thanks for the info.  This looks like a fairly straightforward
> mod which should clean up the oil.  I see the line running from the valve
> cover to your new canister.  There are two other lines attached to the
> canister.  The one on the bottom I am presuming is a drain.  Where does the
> other one go? Is it just open toward the bottom of the engine?   Dave
>
> On Apr 23, 2018, at 1:11 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> The tube is supposed to vent accumulated  gasses to the intake.  Usually
> exhaust gas blow by the rings.  Some oil carry over is normal and a brillow
> paf style if separator can usually be found at the valve cover where the
> tube attaches.  Excessive blow by is indicative of stuck, worn, or broken
> rings or other internal problems.
>
> I have no idea what the PO's maintenance practices were or what oil he
> used.  What I do know is that I got stuck rings the very first season I
> owned the boat.  I successfully unstuck them but had a similarly wet air
> filter as you described.  I installed a blow by canaster to monitor and
> catch the oil instead of soaking the air filter.  It allows me to monitor
> the amount of blow by oil too.  I've been using Amsoil diesel oil since and
> in recent years have noticed a considerable decrease in the amount of oil
> accumulated.
>
> You can see the canister in this video.
> https://youtu.be/H-GI38vE4hQ
>
> And you can buy one here.
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JQAJY9W/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_4Qw3AbJ0ZVY8W
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 22, 2018, 10:24 PM David Knecht via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> I removed the air filter holder from my engine today to check on whether
>> it needed cleaning and was surprised to find the filter soaked in oil and a
>> significant amount of oil inside the housing.  I found there was a
>> tygon/rubber tube running from a fitting on the top of the engine that
>> ended just above the air filter housing and had dripped oil such that it
>> then ran into the case.
>>
>> 1.  What is this tube and what it is connected to?  I can’t find it in my
>> Universal manual.  Oil pressure relief?  If so, why would oil be coming out
>> of it?  I had not noticed the engine oil being low, so I don’t think it is
>> always leaking, but not sure.
>> 2.  Where should the tube go?  It seems like it will create a mess
>> whereever it goes but I presume it is supposed to drain into the the space
>> below the engine, but it is too short to do that effectively.  Dave
>>
>> Aries
>> 1990 C&C 34+
>> New London, CT
>>
>> 
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
> Dr. David Knecht
> Professor of Molecular and Cell Biology
> University of Connecticut
> 91 N. Eagleville Rd.
> Storrs, CT 06269-3125
> 860-486-2200
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.pa

Re: Stus-List universal m4-30 air filter

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

Hi Josh- I don’t have a port on the side of the air intake.  The orginal hose 
was just dangling nearby.  I notice that there is a small wire loop near the 
air intake opening that is about the right size for the tubing.  Perhaps it was 
originally held in place by that?  Dave

> On Apr 23, 2018, at 8:22 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dave, 
> 
> The can only has 2 lines that enter at the top.  As you observed one comes 
> from the valve cover.  The other goes to the original port on the side of the 
> air intake.  The 2 hoses that appear to be coming from the bottom are engine 
> raw water running to a loop seal which is mounted on the wall behind the oil 
> canister.
> 
> Josh 
> 
> On Apr 23, 2018 7:46 AM, "David Knecht via CnC-List"  > wrote:
> Hi Josh- Thanks for the info.  This looks like a fairly straightforward mod 
> which should clean up the oil.  I see the line running from the valve cover 
> to your new canister.  There are two other lines attached to the canister.  
> The one on the bottom I am presuming is a drain.  Where does the other one 
> go? Is it just open toward the bottom of the engine?   Dave
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2018, at 1:11 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> The tube is supposed to vent accumulated  gasses to the intake.  Usually 
>> exhaust gas blow by the rings.  Some oil carry over is normal and a brillow 
>> paf style if separator can usually be found at the valve cover where the 
>> tube attaches.  Excessive blow by is indicative of stuck, worn, or broken 
>> rings or other internal problems.
>> 
>> I have no idea what the PO's maintenance practices were or what oil he used. 
>>  What I do know is that I got stuck rings the very first season I owned the 
>> boat.  I successfully unstuck them but had a similarly wet air filter as you 
>> described.  I installed a blow by canaster to monitor and catch the oil 
>> instead of soaking the air filter.  It allows me to monitor the amount of 
>> blow by oil too.  I've been using Amsoil diesel oil since and in recent 
>> years have noticed a considerable decrease in the amount of oil accumulated.
>> 
>> You can see the canister in this video.
>> https://youtu.be/H-GI38vE4hQ 
>> 
>> And you can buy one here. 
>> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JQAJY9W/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_4Qw3AbJ0ZVY8W 
>> 
>> 
>> Josh Muckley 
>> S/V Sea Hawk 
>> 1989 C&C 37+
>> Solomons, MD 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sun, Apr 22, 2018, 10:24 PM David Knecht via CnC-List 
>> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
>> I removed the air filter holder from my engine today to check on whether it 
>> needed cleaning and was surprised to find the filter soaked in oil and a 
>> significant amount of oil inside the housing.  I found there was a 
>> tygon/rubber tube running from a fitting on the top of the engine that ended 
>> just above the air filter housing and had dripped oil such that it then ran 
>> into the case.  
>> 
>> 1.  What is this tube and what it is connected to?  I can’t find it in my 
>> Universal manual.  Oil pressure relief?  If so, why would oil be coming out 
>> of it?  I had not noticed the engine oil being low, so I don’t think it is 
>> always leaking, but not sure.
>> 2.  Where should the tube go?  It seems like it will create a mess whereever 
>> it goes but I presume it is supposed to drain into the the space below the 
>> engine, but it is too short to do that effectively.  Dave
>> 
>> Aries
>> 1990 C&C 34+
>> New London, CT
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
>> 
>> 
> 
> Dr. David Knecht
> Professor of Molecular and Cell Biology
> University of Connecticut 
> 91 N. Eagleville Rd.
> Storrs, CT 06269-3125
> 860-486-2200
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   

Re: Stus-List universal m4-30 air filter

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Dave,

The can only has 2 lines that enter at the top.  As you observed one comes
from the valve cover.  The other goes to the original port on the side of
the air intake.  The 2 hoses that appear to be coming from the bottom are
engine raw water running to a loop seal which is mounted on the wall behind
the oil canister.

Josh

On Apr 23, 2018 7:46 AM, "David Knecht via CnC-List" 
wrote:

Hi Josh- Thanks for the info.  This looks like a fairly straightforward mod
which should clean up the oil.  I see the line running from the valve cover
to your new canister.  There are two other lines attached to the canister.
The one on the bottom I am presuming is a drain.  Where does the other one
go? Is it just open toward the bottom of the engine?   Dave

On Apr 23, 2018, at 1:11 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

The tube is supposed to vent accumulated  gasses to the intake.  Usually
exhaust gas blow by the rings.  Some oil carry over is normal and a brillow
paf style if separator can usually be found at the valve cover where the
tube attaches.  Excessive blow by is indicative of stuck, worn, or broken
rings or other internal problems.

I have no idea what the PO's maintenance practices were or what oil he
used.  What I do know is that I got stuck rings the very first season I
owned the boat.  I successfully unstuck them but had a similarly wet air
filter as you described.  I installed a blow by canaster to monitor and
catch the oil instead of soaking the air filter.  It allows me to monitor
the amount of blow by oil too.  I've been using Amsoil diesel oil since and
in recent years have noticed a considerable decrease in the amount of oil
accumulated.

You can see the canister in this video.
https://youtu.be/H-GI38vE4hQ

And you can buy one here.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JQAJY9W/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_4Qw3AbJ0ZVY8W

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Sun, Apr 22, 2018, 10:24 PM David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I removed the air filter holder from my engine today to check on whether
> it needed cleaning and was surprised to find the filter soaked in oil and a
> significant amount of oil inside the housing.  I found there was a
> tygon/rubber tube running from a fitting on the top of the engine that
> ended just above the air filter housing and had dripped oil such that it
> then ran into the case.
>
> 1.  What is this tube and what it is connected to?  I can’t find it in my
> Universal manual.  Oil pressure relief?  If so, why would oil be coming out
> of it?  I had not noticed the engine oil being low, so I don’t think it is
> always leaking, but not sure.
> 2.  Where should the tube go?  It seems like it will create a mess
> whereever it goes but I presume it is supposed to drain into the the space
> below the engine, but it is too short to do that effectively.  Dave
>
> Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
>
> 
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use
PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


Dr. David Knecht
Professor of Molecular and Cell Biology
University of Connecticut
91 N. Eagleville Rd.
Storrs, CT 06269-3125
860-486-2200

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use
PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List universal m4-30 air filter

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

Hi Josh- Thanks for the info.  This looks like a fairly straightforward mod 
which should clean up the oil.  I see the line running from the valve cover to 
your new canister.  There are two other lines attached to the canister.  The 
one on the bottom I am presuming is a drain.  Where does the other one go? Is 
it just open toward the bottom of the engine?   Dave

> On Apr 23, 2018, at 1:11 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> The tube is supposed to vent accumulated  gasses to the intake.  Usually 
> exhaust gas blow by the rings.  Some oil carry over is normal and a brillow 
> paf style if separator can usually be found at the valve cover where the tube 
> attaches.  Excessive blow by is indicative of stuck, worn, or broken rings or 
> other internal problems.
> 
> I have no idea what the PO's maintenance practices were or what oil he used.  
> What I do know is that I got stuck rings the very first season I owned the 
> boat.  I successfully unstuck them but had a similarly wet air filter as you 
> described.  I installed a blow by canaster to monitor and catch the oil 
> instead of soaking the air filter.  It allows me to monitor the amount of 
> blow by oil too.  I've been using Amsoil diesel oil since and in recent years 
> have noticed a considerable decrease in the amount of oil accumulated.
> 
> You can see the canister in this video.
> https://youtu.be/H-GI38vE4hQ 
> 
> And you can buy one here. 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JQAJY9W/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_4Qw3AbJ0ZVY8W 
> 
> 
> Josh Muckley 
> S/V Sea Hawk 
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Apr 22, 2018, 10:24 PM David Knecht via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> I removed the air filter holder from my engine today to check on whether it 
> needed cleaning and was surprised to find the filter soaked in oil and a 
> significant amount of oil inside the housing.  I found there was a 
> tygon/rubber tube running from a fitting on the top of the engine that ended 
> just above the air filter housing and had dripped oil such that it then ran 
> into the case.  
> 
> 1.  What is this tube and what it is connected to?  I can’t find it in my 
> Universal manual.  Oil pressure relief?  If so, why would oil be coming out 
> of it?  I had not noticed the engine oil being low, so I don’t think it is 
> always leaking, but not sure.
> 2.  Where should the tube go?  It seems like it will create a mess whereever 
> it goes but I presume it is supposed to drain into the the space below the 
> engine, but it is too short to do that effectively.  Dave
> 
> Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 

Dr. David Knecht
Professor of Molecular and Cell Biology
University of Connecticut   
91 N. Eagleville Rd.
Storrs, CT 06269-3125
860-486-2200

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List universal m4-30 air filter

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

The tube is supposed to vent accumulated  gasses to the intake.  Usually
exhaust gas blow by the rings.  Some oil carry over is normal and a brillow
paf style if separator can usually be found at the valve cover where the
tube attaches.  Excessive blow by is indicative of stuck, worn, or broken
rings or other internal problems.

I have no idea what the PO's maintenance practices were or what oil he
used.  What I do know is that I got stuck rings the very first season I
owned the boat.  I successfully unstuck them but had a similarly wet air
filter as you described.  I installed a blow by canaster to monitor and
catch the oil instead of soaking the air filter.  It allows me to monitor
the amount of blow by oil too.  I've been using Amsoil diesel oil since and
in recent years have noticed a considerable decrease in the amount of oil
accumulated.

You can see the canister in this video.
https://youtu.be/H-GI38vE4hQ

And you can buy one here.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JQAJY9W/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_4Qw3AbJ0ZVY8W

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Sun, Apr 22, 2018, 10:24 PM David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I removed the air filter holder from my engine today to check on whether
> it needed cleaning and was surprised to find the filter soaked in oil and a
> significant amount of oil inside the housing.  I found there was a
> tygon/rubber tube running from a fitting on the top of the engine that
> ended just above the air filter housing and had dripped oil such that it
> then ran into the case.
>
> 1.  What is this tube and what it is connected to?  I can’t find it in my
> Universal manual.  Oil pressure relief?  If so, why would oil be coming out
> of it?  I had not noticed the engine oil being low, so I don’t think it is
> always leaking, but not sure.
> 2.  Where should the tube go?  It seems like it will create a mess
> whereever it goes but I presume it is supposed to drain into the the space
> below the engine, but it is too short to do that effectively.  Dave
>
> Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Stus-List universal m4-30 air filter

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

I removed the air filter holder from my engine today to check on whether it 
needed cleaning and was surprised to find the filter soaked in oil and a 
significant amount of oil inside the housing.  I found there was a tygon/rubber 
tube running from a fitting on the top of the engine that ended just above the 
air filter housing and had dripped oil such that it then ran into the case.  

1.  What is this tube and what it is connected to?  I can’t find it in my 
Universal manual.  Oil pressure relief?  If so, why would oil be coming out of 
it?  I had not noticed the engine oil being low, so I don’t think it is always 
leaking, but not sure.
2.  Where should the tube go?  It seems like it will create a mess whereever it 
goes but I presume it is supposed to drain into the the space below the engine, 
but it is too short to do that effectively.  Dave

Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT



___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray