[cobirds] Re: SAY'S Phoebe shot in Pueblo in 1820

[Jared Del Rosso]

I appreciate this historical anecdote. Names tell stories and the AOS's 
decision seems to have sparked interest in those stories and history. I 
think this is one of several good things that will come from the name 
change (which I support). These stories and histories are often 
complicated. Personally, I think knowing the stories and histories gives us 
some insight into the ornithologists, naturalists, people, and birds who 
came before us, allowing to celebrate the histories we believe worth 
celebrating and reckon with, as the AOS is, those we believe to be in need 
of reckoning. 

I also think these stories and histories can bring us, in an indirect way, 
a bit closer to the birds -- or, at least, how some people once saw them 
them. What stood out about those encounters with the birds? What was 
well-understood? Misunderstood? 

For instance, Wilson thought the bird that we'd come to call Wilson's 
Warbler was a flycatcher. He also named the bird with a descriptive: Green 
Black-capt Flycatcher, which is a bit closer to the name used in Mexico, 
where the bird overwinters. It was only later that it became his warbler. 
The same goes for the Snipe, which he just calls Snipe, and which everyone 
knew existed (since they hunted Snipes and knew they were different than 
the similar Woodcock) before he described them and gave them a scientific 
name.

Even before the AOS' announcement, I was thinking a bit about bird names. 
I'm writing a book about Eastern Whip-poor-wills in US culture. (Look for 
the book way in the future, circa 2025-2026, but please do look for it.) 
The first chapter I wrote was on the species' English name. The name is 
actually a sentence, though it's easy to forget this, which commands the 
whipping of Will. A strange command to know the bird by, but the bird's 
English name nonetheless. There are poems and children's stories that 
reference this about the bird -- using the Whip-poor-will's name and call 
as an opportunity to teach people (often children) to obey authority 
figures (usually parents) or risk the lash. Of course, Whip-poor-wills have 
no interest in how we punish each other, but they were -- through their 
name -- drawn into the violence of our world. (As were Chuck-will's-widows 
and, for a time, Black-whiskered Vireos, who were known as Whip-Tom-Kelly.) 
Before I started work on this book, I mainly spent my non-birding time 
researching, writing, and teaching on the history of torture. So I'm not 
particularly fond of a name that carries that history, but I'm also 
entranced by how iconic the species, their call, and, so, their name are. 
Personally, I admire the more evocative Spanish name (Cuerporruin) or the 
more descriptive French name (Bois-pourri), both of which are also said to 
echo the bird's call. 

A previous poster (apologies, I'm forgetting who), recommended *Mrs. 
Moreau's Warbler *as a potential source for those stories. I'll add to it 
Susan Myers' *The Bird Name Book*, which is a bit more like an encyclopedia 
of English bird names than *Mrs. Moreau's Warbler*. A rather different 
source is J. Drew Lanham's poem on bird names in *Sparrow Envy*.  It opens 
with the lines, "As a taxonomic committee of one / I alone have decided." 

The *Birds of the World* database can also provide insight into the history 
of bird names. Just click the encircled "i" next to the bird's scientific 
name or the names link (near the top of the bird's main profile page) to 
read about common names in other languages.

In the case of the Say's Phoebe, it tells us that Bonaparte got naming 
rights in 1825. You can read Bonaparte's account here 
.
 
Among other things, we learn that the bird that Titian Peale shot in Pueblo 
had an active nest, with two young birds about to fledge. The Say's 
Flycatcher may also have been discovered and described previously, but by 
the rules of the naming game, those earlier efforts weren't valid.

For a rather odd story, chase a MacGilvray's Warbler -- which is actually 
named after two different people: MacGilvray and an ornithologist named 
Tomlie. Audubon and Townsend are responsible for the mix-up, and I'm not 
yet sure what MacGilvray and Tolmie had to do with the species or why 
Audubon's selection (MacGilvray) superseded Townsend's (Tomlie, who 
Townsend also recognized in the scientific name: *Geothlypis tolmiei*.)

- Jared Del Rosso
Centennial, CO







On Tuesday, November 7, 2023 at 7:07:50 PM UTC-7 Leon Bright wrote:

> COBirders--  My friend Mark Yaeger, Colorado’s pre-imminent bird artist 
> and life-time Pueblo resident, sent me the email below. I believe it fits 
> the guideline our moderator has established and I think many will find it 
> of interest.
>
> Leon Bright – Pueblo
>
>  
>
>   Charles Wilson Peale the founder of the Pennsylvania Academy of Arts 
> and the Philadelphia Museum said this 

[cobirds] So. Many. Towhees. Arapahoe

[Jared Del Rosso]

On Sunday, Geoff Stacks and I birded a small section of the High Line Canal 
in Cherry Hills Village, between Dahlia Hollow Park and Colorado Blvd. None 
of last year's overwhelming flocks of robins or waxwings. But we did have a 
nice patch of Spotted Towhees, amid Buckthorn. I'll occasionally have 
visits from 6 or 7 Spotted Towhees around the chokecherry thicket and 
feeders in my yard. But I've rarely encountered that number in a single 
place on trails away from feeders. We counted at least 7 in one spot -- and 
several more around other parts of the trail. Very likely, there are 
feeders around the homes along the trail, helping to concentrate the 
towhees in certain areas. But, still: a lot of Towhees.

We also encountered a White-throated Sparrow with the towhee flocks. 
They're among my favorite winter birds in Centennial. I still recall, 
though less and less each year, the first time I heard a White-throated 
Sparrow song in northern Minnesota. Novice birder that I was, I had to work 
out if there was another person (unseen to me) somewhere whistling on the 
trail -- or if a bird could whistle that well.

- Jared Del Rosso
Centennial, CO

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Re: [cobirds] Bird Names (long)

[Susan Rosine]

Wow, this was well worth reading! What a great look into the process. Van
definitely thought this out.
Thank you for posting this here!

Susan Rosine
Brighton

On Tue, Nov 7, 2023, 7:08 PM Rachel Kolokoff Hopper 
wrote:

> The underbelly of the decision…worth a read if you want to more fully
> understand.
>
> From Van Remsen, now former member of the NACC (North American
> Classification Committee.) If you don’t know who Van is, Google him. Posted
> here with permission from Van.
> ===
> These are my formal comments to AOS leadership from back in early July
> from my position as Acting Chair South American Classification Committee.
> They made me swear to keep these secret until the final decision was made.
> ===
> Comments to AOS Council from J. V. Remsen (Chair and founder, South
> American Classification Committee, and member since 1984 of North American
> Classification Committee)
>
> • Diversity and inclusion. The English Bird Names Committee report is
> antithetical to the AOS mission with respect to diversity and inclusion.
> AOS includes many people who either like eponyms for their own sake or
> would rather not meddle with them for the sake of stability.  These members
> have had little opportunity to express their views.  Currently, only 4.2 %
> of SACC English names are eponyms.  Many supporters of this tiny “market
> share” are afraid to speak out for fear of being called racists (as has
> already happened to Kevin Winker when he published his paper analyzing
> eponym comments in a Washington Post article.)  To anyone who saw that
> recent AOS-sponsored “symposium” (actually a hybrid pep rally X
> fundamentalist big-tent revival meeting) on bird names , it was clear that
> contrary views were not welcomed.
>
> • Broader impacts. I am acutely conscious of my White Privilege status
> that has helped my get where I am.  However, censoring all eponyms smacks
> of an attempt to erase the cultural heritage and scientific accomplishment
> of “Western” culture in the Western Hemisphere.  Extremists on the
> political right will be grateful to the AOS for providing beautiful
> propaganda for their agenda.
>
> • Financial impacts: Because AOS names are used by federal agencies, the
> cost to taxpayers of those name changes needs assessment.  USFWS, USDA,
> NPS, etc. all use standardized AOS names, and this has a trickle-down
> impact on state and local agencies.  They already have to deal with some
> instability due to changes in species limits, but 150 immediate changes
> represents a new level of change.  Just in the bird world, think about
> 4-letter banding codes: 150 would have to be changed and 150 would become
> obsolete.
>
> • Trivialization of AOS.  A typical reaction to the controversy from the
> general public and scientists in other fields is (to paraphrase colleagues
> and friends outside the bird community) “of all the problems in need of
> solutions, the AOS is focusing on THIS!”  It’s a bad look for AOS.
>
> • Negative impact. The EBNC report ignores the potential impact that their
> recommendations will have on countries outside the Global North.  If AOS
> adopts the proposal, it will be seen as a heavy-handed edict from the
> Global North without consideration of negative impacts.  I have provided to
> President Handel a list of eponyms derived from past or present widely
> respected members of the ornithological culture of many South American
> countries, most of them citizens of those countries.
>
> • Global South. If everyone on SACC thought that canceling all eponyms
> would be an effective way to promote interest in or conservation of birds
> or remove obstacles to inclusion of under-represented groups, then we would
> be in favor of it.  There is no direct evidence for any tangible, positive
> effect, other than to appease the BN4B people.  In fact, I predict that the
> fallout will have the opposite effect on many in South America; see
> Pethiyagoda (2023) and Jost et al. (2023).  I like to think we as a
> scientific society (AOS) base our policy changes on evidence, not rhetoric.
>
> • Justice. All but one SACC members are in favor of a case-by-case
> analysis to remove eponymous English for which continued use of that eponym
> is harmful to people or bird conservation.  The argument that the simplest
> thing to do is delete all of them ignores the counterpoint that the
> simplest solution of all is to not remove any of them.  Yes, the process
> will be messy for many reasons, but we have a sample size of 1 (i.e.
> McCown) that suggests that it can work, that NACC is open to that process,
> and that name changes are possible through NACC (and SACC) protocols.  If
> all accusations of “criminal” activity were easy Y/N decisions, then
> democracies would not need their complex judiciary systems.  To do
> otherwise is eerily reminiscent of historical purges by fascist, communist,
> and extreme religious groups.
>
> • Bird names for birds.  The ENBC report takes it as a 

Re: [cobirds] Bird Names (long)

[linda hodges]

Rachel and all,

I must admit that I've grown very weary of the innumerable number of posts
on this topic, but am extremely grateful for these comments, which give us
all a better understanding of the process.

*Linda Hodges*

*Colorado Springs*



On Tue, Nov 7, 2023 at 7:08 PM Rachel Kolokoff Hopper 
wrote:

> The underbelly of the decision…worth a read if you want to more fully
> understand.
>
> From Van Remsen, now former member of the NACC (North American
> Classification Committee.) If you don’t know who Van is, Google him. Posted
> here with permission from Van.
> ===
> These are my formal comments to AOS leadership from back in early July
> from my position as Acting Chair South American Classification Committee.
> They made me swear to keep these secret until the final decision was made.
> ===
> Comments to AOS Council from J. V. Remsen (Chair and founder, South
> American Classification Committee, and member since 1984 of North American
> Classification Committee)
>
> • Diversity and inclusion. The English Bird Names Committee report is
> antithetical to the AOS mission with respect to diversity and inclusion.
> AOS includes many people who either like eponyms for their own sake or
> would rather not meddle with them for the sake of stability.  These members
> have had little opportunity to express their views.  Currently, only 4.2 %
> of SACC English names are eponyms.  Many supporters of this tiny “market
> share” are afraid to speak out for fear of being called racists (as has
> already happened to Kevin Winker when he published his paper analyzing
> eponym comments in a Washington Post article.)  To anyone who saw that
> recent AOS-sponsored “symposium” (actually a hybrid pep rally X
> fundamentalist big-tent revival meeting) on bird names , it was clear that
> contrary views were not welcomed.
>
> • Broader impacts. I am acutely conscious of my White Privilege status
> that has helped my get where I am.  However, censoring all eponyms smacks
> of an attempt to erase the cultural heritage and scientific accomplishment
> of “Western” culture in the Western Hemisphere.  Extremists on the
> political right will be grateful to the AOS for providing beautiful
> propaganda for their agenda.
>
> • Financial impacts: Because AOS names are used by federal agencies, the
> cost to taxpayers of those name changes needs assessment.  USFWS, USDA,
> NPS, etc. all use standardized AOS names, and this has a trickle-down
> impact on state and local agencies.  They already have to deal with some
> instability due to changes in species limits, but 150 immediate changes
> represents a new level of change.  Just in the bird world, think about
> 4-letter banding codes: 150 would have to be changed and 150 would become
> obsolete.
>
> • Trivialization of AOS.  A typical reaction to the controversy from the
> general public and scientists in other fields is (to paraphrase colleagues
> and friends outside the bird community) “of all the problems in need of
> solutions, the AOS is focusing on THIS!”  It’s a bad look for AOS.
>
> • Negative impact. The EBNC report ignores the potential impact that their
> recommendations will have on countries outside the Global North.  If AOS
> adopts the proposal, it will be seen as a heavy-handed edict from the
> Global North without consideration of negative impacts.  I have provided to
> President Handel a list of eponyms derived from past or present widely
> respected members of the ornithological culture of many South American
> countries, most of them citizens of those countries.
>
> • Global South. If everyone on SACC thought that canceling all eponyms
> would be an effective way to promote interest in or conservation of birds
> or remove obstacles to inclusion of under-represented groups, then we would
> be in favor of it.  There is no direct evidence for any tangible, positive
> effect, other than to appease the BN4B people.  In fact, I predict that the
> fallout will have the opposite effect on many in South America; see
> Pethiyagoda (2023) and Jost et al. (2023).  I like to think we as a
> scientific society (AOS) base our policy changes on evidence, not rhetoric.
>
> • Justice. All but one SACC members are in favor of a case-by-case
> analysis to remove eponymous English for which continued use of that eponym
> is harmful to people or bird conservation.  The argument that the simplest
> thing to do is delete all of them ignores the counterpoint that the
> simplest solution of all is to not remove any of them.  Yes, the process
> will be messy for many reasons, but we have a sample size of 1 (i.e.
> McCown) that suggests that it can work, that NACC is open to that process,
> and that name changes are possible through NACC (and SACC) protocols.  If
> all accusations of “criminal” activity were easy Y/N decisions, then
> democracies would not need their complex judiciary systems.  To do
> otherwise is eerily reminiscent of historical purges by fascist, communist,

[cobirds] Bird Names (long)

[Rachel Kolokoff Hopper]

The underbelly of the decision…worth a read if you want to more fully understand.From Van Remsen, now former member of the NACC (North American Classification Committee.) If you don’t know who Van is, Google him. Posted here with permission from Van.===These are my formal comments to AOS leadership from back in early July from my position as Acting Chair South American Classification Committee. They made me swear to keep these secret until the final decision was made.===Comments to AOS Council from J. V. Remsen (Chair and founder, South American Classification Committee, and member since 1984 of North American Classification Committee)• Diversity and inclusion. The English Bird Names Committee report is antithetical to the AOS mission with respect to diversity and inclusion.  AOS includes many people who either like eponyms for their own sake or would rather not meddle with them for the sake of stability.  These members have had little opportunity to express their views.  Currently, only 4.2 % of SACC English names are eponyms.  Many supporters of this tiny “market share” are afraid to speak out for fear of being called racists (as has already happened to Kevin Winker when he published his paper analyzing eponym comments in a Washington Post article.)  To anyone who saw that recent AOS-sponsored “symposium” (actually a hybrid pep rally X fundamentalist big-tent revival meeting) on bird names , it was clear that contrary views were not welcomed.  • Broader impacts. I am acutely conscious of my White Privilege status that has helped my get where I am.  However, censoring all eponyms smacks of an attempt to erase the cultural heritage and scientific accomplishment of “Western” culture in the Western Hemisphere.  Extremists on the political right will be grateful to the AOS for providing beautiful propaganda for their agenda.• Financial impacts: Because AOS names are used by federal agencies, the cost to taxpayers of those name changes needs assessment.  USFWS, USDA, NPS, etc. all use standardized AOS names, and this has a trickle-down impact on state and local agencies.  They already have to deal with some instability due to changes in species limits, but 150 immediate changes represents a new level of change.  Just in the bird world, think about 4-letter banding codes: 150 would have to be changed and 150 would become obsolete.• Trivialization of AOS.  A typical reaction to the controversy from the general public and scientists in other fields is (to paraphrase colleagues and friends outside the bird community) “of all the problems in need of solutions, the AOS is focusing on THIS!”  It’s a bad look for AOS.• Negative impact. The EBNC report ignores the potential impact that their recommendations will have on countries outside the Global North.  If AOS adopts the proposal, it will be seen as a heavy-handed edict from the Global North without consideration of negative impacts.  I have provided to President Handel a list of eponyms derived from past or present widely respected members of the ornithological culture of many South American countries, most of them citizens of those countries.• Global South. If everyone on SACC thought that canceling all eponyms would be an effective way to promote interest in or conservation of birds or remove obstacles to inclusion of under-represented groups, then we would be in favor of it.  There is no direct evidence for any tangible, positive effect, other than to appease the BN4B people.  In fact, I predict that the fallout will have the opposite effect on many in South America; see Pethiyagoda (2023) and Jost et al. (2023).  I like to think we as a scientific society (AOS) base our policy changes on evidence, not rhetoric.• Justice. All but one SACC members are in favor of a case-by-case analysis to remove eponymous English for which continued use of that eponym is harmful to people or bird conservation.  The argument that the simplest thing to do is delete all of them ignores the counterpoint that the simplest solution of all is to not remove any of them.  Yes, the process will be messy for many reasons, but we have a sample size of 1 (i.e. McCown) that suggests that it can work, that NACC is open to that process, and that name changes are possible through NACC (and SACC) protocols.  If all accusations of “criminal” activity were easy Y/N decisions, then democracies would not need their complex judiciary systems.  To do otherwise is eerily reminiscent of historical purges by fascist, communist, and extreme religious groups.• Bird names for birds.  The ENBC report takes it as a given that its new names will help people learn bird identification.  I regard this a classic False Premise and will provide a separate document on this.  The bottom line is that birds names aren’t for birds – they are for people.• Shared vision. This entire controversy saddens me.  If there were a way to quantify the moral/political views of NACC and SACC members in some sort of 3D 

[cobirds] SAY'S Phoebe shot in Pueblo in 1820

[Leon Bright]

COBirders--  My friend Mark Yaeger, Colorado's pre-imminent bird artist and
life-time Pueblo resident, sent me the email below. I believe it fits the
guideline our moderator has established and I think many will find it of
interest.

Leon Bright - Pueblo

 

  Charles Wilson Peale the founder of the Pennsylvania Academy of Arts and
the Philadelphia Museum said this in 1799:

"There is also another unmeaning custom which is still essential for us to
get rid of. I mean that of naming subjects of nature, after persons, who
have plumed themselves with those childish ideas of being the first
discoverers of such thing."  He went on to say naming birds after people
should be avoided because it "feeds the vanity of some naturalists without
enlightening the science".

   Peale named his children after artists: Raphael, Rembrandt, Rubens,
Angelica Kauffman, Sophonisba Angusciola and Titian. It was son Titian who
in 1820 shot the Say's Phoebe near Pueblo that got named after his boss
Thomas Say on the Edwin James expedition.

 

Mark Yaeger

 

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[cobirds] AOU - name changes

['Cathy Sheeter' via Colorado Birds]

I think the visceral reaction of many really has nothing to do with names, but 
with simple concept of a large change from what they know.  Many birds have 
been named, renamed and changed over the last 100 years, but people only 
remember and feel attached to the one they learned when they started birding, 
or the one they know now.  Yes, there will be a big adjustment and for some it 
may seem overwhelming to think about remembering 150 new names…but I actually 
think some, if not most, of the new names will be big improvements as far as 
being more about the bird than some historical figure that many don’t know 
anything about. 

New birders will learn the new names and have no specific attachment to 
Harris’s Hawk compared to Bay-winged Hawk.  Harris’s tells us nothing of the 
bird.  Bay-winged is informative.

I don’t personally think renaming will specifically change who is attracted to 
birding or if someone stays at it, but I do think descriptive names are 
actually more beneficial for new birders for learning.  Thicket Vireo certainly 
helps one understand habitat of the species much more than Bell’s Vireo ever 
has.  I look forward to saying the more descriptive names of Yucca Oriole, 
Sedge Sparrow, Ice Bunting, and Desert Quail (of course these examples are not 
formally accepted names, but ideas I have seen being tossed around on various 
groups).   

I don’t think there is anything specifically beneficial to anyone by having 
bird’s (or any animal) named after people.  I admit I have rarely taken time to 
researched the names behind the birds they are named after, but am much more 
interested in their ecology, habitat and behavior, which can be incorporated in 
these new names. In some cases the new names might help with conservation 
efforts by showing a species dependence on an endangered or declining habitats.

I think and hope that in a handful of years most will look back on the changes 
favorably after they get used to the new names and have adjusted to them.


Cathy Sheeter
www.cathysheeter.com
Aurora, CO 

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Re: [cobirds] Re: Benefits of Keeping the Original Bird Names. Moderator note

[Mark Hauswald]

As an old birder who is familiar with all these names I'd prefer to keep 
them.
If I was a brand new birder who was trying to sort out hundreds of species 
I'd much prefer names that would help me do that.
I'm going to New Zealand in January so will be in the latter camp then. 
Those names are often in Maori ! 

On Monday, November 6, 2023 at 1:13:43 PM UTC-7 Carla Richardson wrote:

> I am certainly not on the list for political discussions. But I will say 
> one thing and one thing only. Please do not call the United States "evil." 
> (From a previous post)
>
> Back to appropriate topic, personally I wish bird names would stay the 
> same as named by the people who discovered them. It is not fair to judge 
> others from other times, in a general sense. I'm pretty neutral about it, 
> though, I can understand the point, either way. 
>
> As a VERY NEW birder, it's hard enough to remember names without the names 
> changing continually. 
>
> Carla
>
> On Mon, Nov 6, 2023, 12:44 PM David Suddjian  wrote:
>
>> Hi CoBirders,
>>
>> *List moderator note*. 
>> This has been an interesting (and polite) discussion, and certainly 
>> appropriate to CoBirds on the whole. As it proceeds I remind list members 
>> that CoBirds is about reporting on *birding in Colorado*, *Colorado 
>> birds* and things pertinent to these topics. For this issue, where there 
>> are strong opinions and deep feelings, I encourage the discussion to steer 
>> away from the lives of historic figures in contexts outside of Colorado 
>> birding. We can look those things up. Discussion of bird names and the 
>> plan and process to change them is fine.  You know what I'm trying to say. 
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> David Suddjian
>> CoBirds moderator
>> Littleton, CO
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 10:13 AM Susan Rosine  wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not quite sure why we're still bringing up McCown, since "his" bird 
>>> already has a new moniker. 
>>>
>>> Interesting that you note "the Confederacy and the evils that it stood 
>>> for".
>>>
>>> Ten of the first twelve presidents owned slaves, and twelve presidents 
>>> altogether had slaves at some point. Yet, we have Washington, Jefferson, 
>>> Jackson and Grant on our money, stamps, etc.
>>>
>>> We also still honor men who pushed the Native American Indians from 
>>> their land. 
>>>
>>> Evil Confederacy? How about evil United States of America? 
>>>
>>> If at one point, it was simply decided that birds named after humans was 
>>> stupid in general, and therefore would all be renamed, that would be fine. 
>>> Annoying, because it's a lot of name changes all at once, but fine. 
>>> However, this all started because it was discovered a few of these men were 
>>> not perfect, wonderful human beings. Then there had to be intense study 
>>> into "just how evil" they really were. People started taking sides. These 
>>> men were sort of on trial posthumously. Good or bad, cool dude or evil dude?
>>>
>>> AOS finally decided, well let's just changed them all, so we don't have 
>>> to dig into each person's life. That's what I find to be ridiculous. They 
>>> should have just changed them all in the first place and we wouldn't be 
>>> having this discussion. 
>>>
>>> Susan Rosine
>>> Brighton 
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 6, 2023, 9:20 AM mille...@gmail.com  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Whether the mischaracterization of John McCown in this message as a 
 "brave hero who took the deadly risk to speaking against the Confederacy?" 
 is deliberately provocative or just ignorant I can't begin to diagnose, 
 but 
 it is certainly "fact-free." McCown is indeed credited with calling the 
 Confederacy a "damned stinking cotton oligarchy," but this was not some 
 repudiation of the Confederacy and all it stood for. No, it was made in 
 the 
 heat of a political squabble he was involved in with Jefferson Davis and 
 some of the other generals he had a disagreement with. The fact is that 
 John McCown resigned his United States Army commission at the beginning of 
 the war to take up arms against his country in defense of the Confederacy 
 and the evils it stood for, and he remained a commissioned general in that 
 force until the very end of the war.

 In any case, this example alone I think neatly illustrates *precisely* 
 why Bird Names for Birds originally formed, and why it has resulted in 
 this 
 decision by the AOS. If this is the quality of the supposed "history 
 lessons" we can expect to receive from an eponym, all diversity and 
 inclusion questions aside, we should have consigned these to the dustbin 
 decades ago. 

 vr/
 Max Miller
 Lakewood, CO
 On Saturday, November 4, 2023 at 4:06:13 PM UTC-6 Robert Righter wrote:

> Hi
>
> What a fascinating discussion we are all having on Cobirds about the 
> implication of changing the names of birds.
>
>
> Birds named after historical individuals offer 

[cobirds] Sandhill Cranes low over Ken Caryl Valley, JeffCo

[David Suddjian]

Four Sandhills just flew north over my neighborhood only about two house 
heights up! I’ve never seen them flying so low over this area. I was certainly 
doing a double-take. One gave one gurgle, as if to confirm, “Yep, it’s us.”

David Suddjian
Ken Caryl Valley
Littleton, CO

Sent from my iPhone

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