Re: [cobirds] Disturbing bird incident

[Karl Stecher Jr.]

Ira, some of my metal feeders have the metal as manufactured covered with a 
thin layer of plastic.
 The guys (and girl) at the Wild Bird Center at Yale and Wadsworth may have 
some answers (and protected feeders).
  
 Karl
  
  
  


 From: "Ira Sanders" <zroadrunne...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 2:50 AM
To: "Joe Roller" <jroll...@gmail.com>
Cc: "SeEtta Moss" <seet...@gmail.com>, "Colorado Birds" 
<cobirds@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [cobirds] Disturbing bird incident   
  Hey all,
 I really appreciate all the information that has been shared on this subject 
and I have learned a lot from it.  I'll be taping the cast iron hooks to try to 
keep this from happening again.  I'll probably use cloth electrical tape as I 
think it will hold up better than duct tape.
 To answer what SeEtta said, the best I can guess is that the goldfinch had 
been at the water feature bird bath before going to the feeder pole, and it's 
foot may have been wet.
 I haven't had any trouble with birds sticking to the metal style thistle 
feeders that I use.
  
 Ira Sanders

   On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Joe Roller <jroll...@gmail.com> wrote:   
When the dew point is at a certain level, everything gets covered with some 
moisture.   For example:  "Frosted windowpanes, candles gleaming inside..." The 
Christmas Waltz
  
 Joe Roller, Denver


 On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 2:28 AM, SeEttaM . <seet...@gmail.com> wrote:   
Thank everyone for sharing about this issue but I have a continuing need for 
clarification .   Both USFWS and National Audubon as well as a number of others 
have previously stated that birds feet don't freeze to metal and metal feeders 
are not a risk. Yet clearly some birds have had their feet stuck to metal 
feeders or accessories as explained by several in this thread.   
 "Birds don't have sweat glands in their 
 feet, so they won't freeze onto metal 
 feeders. There's no need to cover 
 any metal feeders parts with plastic 
 or wood to protect birds' feet, 
 tongues or eyes. "
 
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=web=j=https://www.fws.gov/nevada/nv_species/urban_wildlife/forthebirds.pdf=0ahUKEwif5M__4ObQAhWjrlQKHZvEBNg4ChAWCF0wEA=AFQjCNFNKgnEjcF5uo5dnlrJviN2T468yA=y_RjK6BWq4xnsbkazR3-jQ
  
 ""Our fingers may stick to metal ice cube trays because moisture freezes on 
contact with frigid metal," explains Kress. "However, a bird's feet are covered 
with dry scales, so there is no surface moisture to freeze to metal perches. 
Eyes, tongues, and beaks are usually safe from exposure to metal feeder parts."
 Do Birds Stick to Metal Feeders In Winter? |  
  
  
  Could there be another reason the birds documented in this thread had their 
feet stick to metal--maybe there was melted snow on the metal?? Some other 
explanation? Or were USFWS and National Audubon just plain wrong?
  
 SeEtta Moss
 Canon City 

 On Dec 8, 2016 6:44 PM, "Eric DeFonso" <bay.w...@gmail.com> wrote: 

 Regarding heat capacity...just a small correction to the earlier discussion. 
Metals actually have relatively low heat capacities, especially compared to 
water. What metals do have however is high heat *conductivity*. Their free 
electrons make them especially good not just at conducting electricity but also 
heat energy, and this is why the metal in the feeders was so effective at 
draining the heat from the moisture in the birds feet.
  
 If you've ever lived near a large body of water like the Great Lakes or an 
ocean, you've experienced firsthand the heat capacity of water, with its 
ability to moderate temperatures year round compared to inland or high 
elevation locations.
  
 Eric DeFonso
 Westminster, CO
  
On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 1:23 PM Kathy Kay <kathykay...@gmail.com> wrote:
  The very same thing happened at my feeder this very same week last year.  I 
wasn't able to get to the Pine Sisken before it freed itself sans foot 
(separated at the knee).  He still comes to my feeder and bird bath.  He seems 
to be doing just fine a year after the incident.  You may see your Goldfinch 
again soon.  
 Kathy Kay
 Golden, CO

   On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:34 AM, Christy P <passercu...@gmail.com> wrote:
You have to be very careful applying heat of any kind to wildlife outdoors, 
especially one that may already be hypothermic. Oftentimes well-intentioned 
individuals kill animals trying to warm them back up by putting them into 
shock. Finding a heat source that only affects the portion of the bird that is 
stuck, as opposed to its entire body, would be recommended. With something as 
small as an American Goldfinch, assuming there wasn't a build-up of ice, maybe 
even just covering its foot with your warm hand and defrosting it that way may 
have worked, or would in future. 

  
 Thanks for sharing Ira, it's always our

Re: [cobirds] Disturbing bird incident

[Ira Sanders]

Hey all,
I really appreciate all the information that has been shared on this
subject and I have learned a lot from it.  I'll be taping the cast iron
hooks to try to keep this from happening again.  I'll probably use cloth
electrical tape as I think it will hold up better than duct tape.
To answer what SeEtta said, the best I can guess is that the goldfinch had
been at the water feature bird bath before going to the feeder pole, and
it's foot may have been wet.
I haven't had any trouble with birds sticking to the metal style thistle
feeders that I use.

Ira Sanders

On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Joe Roller  wrote:

> When the dew point is at a certain level, everything gets covered with
> some moisture.
>
> For example:
> "Frosted windowpanes, candles gleaming inside..." *The Christmas Waltz*
>
> Joe Roller, Denver
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 2:28 AM, SeEttaM .  wrote:
>
>> Thank everyone for sharing about this issue but I have a continuing need
>> for clarification .   Both USFWS and National Audubon as well as a number
>> of others have previously stated that birds feet don't freeze to metal and
>> metal feeders are not a risk. Yet clearly some birds have had their feet
>> stuck to metal feeders or accessories as explained by several in this
>> thread.
>>
>> "Birds don’t have sweat glands in their
>> feet, so they won’t freeze onto metal
>> feeders. There’s no need to cover
>> any metal feeders parts with plastic
>> or wood to protect birds’ feet,
>> tongues or eyes. "
>> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=web=j=https:/
>> /www.fws.gov/nevada/nv_species/urban_wildlife/forthebirds.
>> pdf=0ahUKEwif5M__4ObQAhWjrlQKHZvEBNg4ChAWCF0wEA=AFQj
>> CNFNKgnEjcF5uo5dnlrJviN2T468yA=y_RjK6BWq4xnsbkazR3-jQ
>>
>> "“Our fingers may stick to metal ice cube trays because moisture freezes
>> on contact with frigid metal,” explains Kress. “However, a bird's feet are
>> covered with dry scales, so there is no surface moisture to freeze to metal
>> perches. Eyes, tongues, and beaks are usually safe from exposure to metal
>> feeder parts."
>> Do Birds Stick to Metal Feeders In Winter? |
>>
>>
>>  Could there be another reason the birds documented in this thread had
>> their feet stick to metal--maybe there was melted snow on the metal?? Some
>> other explanation? Or were USFWS and National Audubon just plain wrong?
>>
>> SeEtta Moss
>> Canon City
>>
>> On Dec 8, 2016 6:44 PM, "Eric DeFonso"  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Regarding heat capacity...just a small correction to the earlier
>>> discussion. Metals actually have relatively low heat capacities, especially
>>> compared to water. What metals do have however is high heat *conductivity*.
>>> Their free electrons make them especially good not just at conducting
>>> electricity but also heat energy, and this is why the metal in the feeders
>>> was so effective at draining the heat from the moisture in the birds feet.
>>>
>>> If you've ever lived near a large body of water like the Great Lakes or
>>> an ocean, you've experienced firsthand the heat capacity of water, with its
>>> ability to moderate temperatures year round compared to inland or high
>>> elevation locations.
>>>
>>> Eric DeFonso
>>> Westminster, CO
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 1:23 PM Kathy Kay  wrote:
>>>
 The very same thing happened at my feeder this very same week last
 year.  I wasn't able to get to the Pine Sisken before it freed itself sans
 foot (separated at the knee).  He still comes to my feeder and bird bath.
 He seems to be doing just fine a year after the incident.  You may see your
 Goldfinch again soon.

 Kathy Kay
 Golden, CO

 On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:34 AM, Christy P 
 wrote:

 You have to be very careful applying heat of any kind to wildlife
 outdoors, especially one that may already be hypothermic. Oftentimes
 well-intentioned individuals kill animals trying to warm them back up by
 putting them into shock. Finding a heat source that only affects the
 portion of the bird that is stuck, as opposed to its entire body, would be
 recommended. With something as small as an American Goldfinch, assuming
 there wasn't a build-up of ice, maybe even just covering its foot with your
 warm hand and defrosting it that way may have worked, or would in future.

 Thanks for sharing Ira, it's always our worst fear to leave birds
 worse-off than they were to begin with. But at least you freed it.

 Christy Payne
 Wheat Ridge

 On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:27 AM Mary Keithler 
 wrote:

 Hi Ira and birders,

 Perhaps a hair dryer with a long extension cord would work better.

 Mary Keithler, Arapahoe County



 Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 8, 2016, at 8:41 AM, Ira Sanders 
 wrote:

 This 

Re: [cobirds] Disturbing bird incident

[Joe Roller]

When the dew point is at a certain level, everything gets covered with some
moisture.

For example:
"Frosted windowpanes, candles gleaming inside..." *The Christmas Waltz*

Joe Roller, Denver



On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 2:28 AM, SeEttaM .  wrote:

> Thank everyone for sharing about this issue but I have a continuing need
> for clarification .   Both USFWS and National Audubon as well as a number
> of others have previously stated that birds feet don't freeze to metal and
> metal feeders are not a risk. Yet clearly some birds have had their feet
> stuck to metal feeders or accessories as explained by several in this
> thread.
>
> "Birds don’t have sweat glands in their
> feet, so they won’t freeze onto metal
> feeders. There’s no need to cover
> any metal feeders parts with plastic
> or wood to protect birds’ feet,
> tongues or eyes. "
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=web=j=https:/
> /www.fws.gov/nevada/nv_species/urban_wildlife/forthebirds.pdf=
> 0ahUKEwif5M__4ObQAhWjrlQKHZvEBNg4ChAWCF0wEA=
> AFQjCNFNKgnEjcF5uo5dnlrJviN2T468yA=y_RjK6BWq4xnsbkazR3-jQ
>
> "“Our fingers may stick to metal ice cube trays because moisture freezes
> on contact with frigid metal,” explains Kress. “However, a bird's feet are
> covered with dry scales, so there is no surface moisture to freeze to metal
> perches. Eyes, tongues, and beaks are usually safe from exposure to metal
> feeder parts."
> Do Birds Stick to Metal Feeders In Winter? |
>
>
>  Could there be another reason the birds documented in this thread had
> their feet stick to metal--maybe there was melted snow on the metal?? Some
> other explanation? Or were USFWS and National Audubon just plain wrong?
>
> SeEtta Moss
> Canon City
>
> On Dec 8, 2016 6:44 PM, "Eric DeFonso"  wrote:
>
>>
>> Regarding heat capacity...just a small correction to the earlier
>> discussion. Metals actually have relatively low heat capacities, especially
>> compared to water. What metals do have however is high heat *conductivity*.
>> Their free electrons make them especially good not just at conducting
>> electricity but also heat energy, and this is why the metal in the feeders
>> was so effective at draining the heat from the moisture in the birds feet.
>>
>> If you've ever lived near a large body of water like the Great Lakes or
>> an ocean, you've experienced firsthand the heat capacity of water, with its
>> ability to moderate temperatures year round compared to inland or high
>> elevation locations.
>>
>> Eric DeFonso
>> Westminster, CO
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 1:23 PM Kathy Kay  wrote:
>>
>>> The very same thing happened at my feeder this very same week last
>>> year.  I wasn't able to get to the Pine Sisken before it freed itself sans
>>> foot (separated at the knee).  He still comes to my feeder and bird bath.
>>> He seems to be doing just fine a year after the incident.  You may see your
>>> Goldfinch again soon.
>>>
>>> Kathy Kay
>>> Golden, CO
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:34 AM, Christy P 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> You have to be very careful applying heat of any kind to wildlife
>>> outdoors, especially one that may already be hypothermic. Oftentimes
>>> well-intentioned individuals kill animals trying to warm them back up by
>>> putting them into shock. Finding a heat source that only affects the
>>> portion of the bird that is stuck, as opposed to its entire body, would be
>>> recommended. With something as small as an American Goldfinch, assuming
>>> there wasn't a build-up of ice, maybe even just covering its foot with your
>>> warm hand and defrosting it that way may have worked, or would in future.
>>>
>>> Thanks for sharing Ira, it's always our worst fear to leave birds
>>> worse-off than they were to begin with. But at least you freed it.
>>>
>>> Christy Payne
>>> Wheat Ridge
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:27 AM Mary Keithler 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Ira and birders,
>>>
>>> Perhaps a hair dryer with a long extension cord would work better.
>>>
>>> Mary Keithler, Arapahoe County
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Dec 8, 2016, at 8:41 AM, Ira Sanders  wrote:
>>>
>>> This morning when I went to put out the feeders, there was a goldfinch
>>> hanging from the metal arm of the hooks we use to hang the feeders.  At
>>> first it wasn't moving and I was wondering how a bird could somehow die in
>>> that position.  I have no idea how long it was there, but I'm sure it was
>>> long enough to weaken it. As I got closer, I saw it's eyes were open and
>>> then it started to flutter a little.  It's foot had frozen to the iron arm
>>> and it was hanging by 1 foot.  I ran in to get some water to get it loose,
>>> but our efforts, which were incompetent and inadequate, didn't save all of
>>> it's foot.
>>> My first efforts only caused ice to form and made it worse.
>>> The bird did fly from Tammy's hand but part of it's foot was still on
>>> 

Re: [cobirds] Disturbing bird incident

[SeEttaM .]

Thank everyone for sharing about this issue but I have a continuing need
for clarification .   Both USFWS and National Audubon as well as a number
of others have previously stated that birds feet don't freeze to metal and
metal feeders are not a risk. Yet clearly some birds have had their feet
stuck to metal feeders or accessories as explained by several in this
thread.

"Birds don’t have sweat glands in their
feet, so they won’t freeze onto metal
feeders. There’s no need to cover
any metal feeders parts with plastic
or wood to protect birds’ feet,
tongues or eyes. "
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=web=j=https://www.fws.gov/nevada/nv_species/urban_wildlife/forthebirds.pdf=0ahUKEwif5M__4ObQAhWjrlQKHZvEBNg4ChAWCF0wEA=AFQjCNFNKgnEjcF5uo5dnlrJviN2T468yA=y_RjK6BWq4xnsbkazR3-jQ

"“Our fingers may stick to metal ice cube trays because moisture freezes on
contact with frigid metal,” explains Kress. “However, a bird's feet are
covered with dry scales, so there is no surface moisture to freeze to metal
perches. Eyes, tongues, and beaks are usually safe from exposure to metal
feeder parts."
Do Birds Stick to Metal Feeders In Winter? |


 Could there be another reason the birds documented in this thread had
their feet stick to metal--maybe there was melted snow on the metal?? Some
other explanation? Or were USFWS and National Audubon just plain wrong?

SeEtta Moss
Canon City

On Dec 8, 2016 6:44 PM, "Eric DeFonso"  wrote:

>
> Regarding heat capacity...just a small correction to the earlier
> discussion. Metals actually have relatively low heat capacities, especially
> compared to water. What metals do have however is high heat *conductivity*.
> Their free electrons make them especially good not just at conducting
> electricity but also heat energy, and this is why the metal in the feeders
> was so effective at draining the heat from the moisture in the birds feet.
>
> If you've ever lived near a large body of water like the Great Lakes or an
> ocean, you've experienced firsthand the heat capacity of water, with its
> ability to moderate temperatures year round compared to inland or high
> elevation locations.
>
> Eric DeFonso
> Westminster, CO
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 1:23 PM Kathy Kay  wrote:
>
>> The very same thing happened at my feeder this very same week last year.
>> I wasn't able to get to the Pine Sisken before it freed itself sans foot
>> (separated at the knee).  He still comes to my feeder and bird bath.  He
>> seems to be doing just fine a year after the incident.  You may see your
>> Goldfinch again soon.
>>
>> Kathy Kay
>> Golden, CO
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:34 AM, Christy P  wrote:
>>
>> You have to be very careful applying heat of any kind to wildlife
>> outdoors, especially one that may already be hypothermic. Oftentimes
>> well-intentioned individuals kill animals trying to warm them back up by
>> putting them into shock. Finding a heat source that only affects the
>> portion of the bird that is stuck, as opposed to its entire body, would be
>> recommended. With something as small as an American Goldfinch, assuming
>> there wasn't a build-up of ice, maybe even just covering its foot with your
>> warm hand and defrosting it that way may have worked, or would in future.
>>
>> Thanks for sharing Ira, it's always our worst fear to leave birds
>> worse-off than they were to begin with. But at least you freed it.
>>
>> Christy Payne
>> Wheat Ridge
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:27 AM Mary Keithler 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Ira and birders,
>>
>> Perhaps a hair dryer with a long extension cord would work better.
>>
>> Mary Keithler, Arapahoe County
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 8, 2016, at 8:41 AM, Ira Sanders  wrote:
>>
>> This morning when I went to put out the feeders, there was a goldfinch
>> hanging from the metal arm of the hooks we use to hang the feeders.  At
>> first it wasn't moving and I was wondering how a bird could somehow die in
>> that position.  I have no idea how long it was there, but I'm sure it was
>> long enough to weaken it. As I got closer, I saw it's eyes were open and
>> then it started to flutter a little.  It's foot had frozen to the iron arm
>> and it was hanging by 1 foot.  I ran in to get some water to get it loose,
>> but our efforts, which were incompetent and inadequate, didn't save all of
>> it's foot.
>> My first efforts only caused ice to form and made it worse.
>> The bird did fly from Tammy's hand but part of it's foot was still on the
>> metal.  Obviously we did it wrong.  In retrospect, I don't think warm water
>> was a good idea at all.
>> In case someone else has this same miserable experience, maybe some
>> forethought could result in a successful outcome and not our utter failure.
>>
>> --
>> Ira Sanders
>> Golden, CO
>> "My mind is a raging torrent flooded with rivulets of thought cascading
>> into a waterfall of creative 

Re: [cobirds] Disturbing bird incident

[Eric DeFonso]

Regarding heat capacity...just a small correction to the earlier
discussion. Metals actually have relatively low heat capacities, especially
compared to water. What metals do have however is high heat *conductivity*.
Their free electrons make them especially good not just at conducting
electricity but also heat energy, and this is why the metal in the feeders
was so effective at draining the heat from the moisture in the birds feet.

If you've ever lived near a large body of water like the Great Lakes or an
ocean, you've experienced firsthand the heat capacity of water, with its
ability to moderate temperatures year round compared to inland or high
elevation locations.

Eric DeFonso
Westminster, CO


On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 1:23 PM Kathy Kay  wrote:

> The very same thing happened at my feeder this very same week last year.
> I wasn't able to get to the Pine Sisken before it freed itself sans foot
> (separated at the knee).  He still comes to my feeder and bird bath.  He
> seems to be doing just fine a year after the incident.  You may see your
> Goldfinch again soon.
>
> Kathy Kay
> Golden, CO
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:34 AM, Christy P  wrote:
>
> You have to be very careful applying heat of any kind to wildlife
> outdoors, especially one that may already be hypothermic. Oftentimes
> well-intentioned individuals kill animals trying to warm them back up by
> putting them into shock. Finding a heat source that only affects the
> portion of the bird that is stuck, as opposed to its entire body, would be
> recommended. With something as small as an American Goldfinch, assuming
> there wasn't a build-up of ice, maybe even just covering its foot with your
> warm hand and defrosting it that way may have worked, or would in future.
>
> Thanks for sharing Ira, it's always our worst fear to leave birds
> worse-off than they were to begin with. But at least you freed it.
>
> Christy Payne
> Wheat Ridge
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:27 AM Mary Keithler  wrote:
>
> Hi Ira and birders,
>
> Perhaps a hair dryer with a long extension cord would work better.
>
> Mary Keithler, Arapahoe County
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 8, 2016, at 8:41 AM, Ira Sanders  wrote:
>
> This morning when I went to put out the feeders, there was a goldfinch
> hanging from the metal arm of the hooks we use to hang the feeders.  At
> first it wasn't moving and I was wondering how a bird could somehow die in
> that position.  I have no idea how long it was there, but I'm sure it was
> long enough to weaken it. As I got closer, I saw it's eyes were open and
> then it started to flutter a little.  It's foot had frozen to the iron arm
> and it was hanging by 1 foot.  I ran in to get some water to get it loose,
> but our efforts, which were incompetent and inadequate, didn't save all of
> it's foot.
> My first efforts only caused ice to form and made it worse.
> The bird did fly from Tammy's hand but part of it's foot was still on the
> metal.  Obviously we did it wrong.  In retrospect, I don't think warm water
> was a good idea at all.
> In case someone else has this same miserable experience, maybe some
> forethought could result in a successful outcome and not our utter failure.
>
> --
> Ira Sanders
> Golden, CO
> "My mind is a raging torrent flooded with rivulets of thought cascading
> into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Colorado Birds" group.
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Re: [cobirds] Disturbing bird incident

[David Steingraeber]

We had something similar happen at our house yesterday, when my wife & a 
friend noticed a seemingly dead house finch hanging down from a metal 
trellis bar on which it had perched. They "enveloped" the bird in a 
fleece scarf and held it in place for a few minutes to warm it up.  The 
bird became detached from the bar, and after a few more minutes of 
warming (in/on the scarf, held by our friend in his cupped hands), it 
revived and flew away.


Dave Steingraeber
Fort Collins

On 12/8/2016 8:41 AM, Ira Sanders wrote:
This morning when I went to put out the feeders, there was a goldfinch 
hanging from the metal arm of the hooks we use to hang the feeders.  
At first it wasn't moving and I was wondering how a bird could somehow 
die in that position.  I have no idea how long it was there, but I'm 
sure it was long enough to weaken it. As I got closer, I saw it's eyes 
were open and then it started to flutter a little.  It's foot had 
frozen to the iron arm and it was hanging by 1 foot.  I ran in to get 
some water to get it loose, but our efforts, which were incompetent 
and inadequate, didn't save all of it's foot.

My first efforts only caused ice to form and made it worse.
The bird did fly from Tammy's hand but part of it's foot was still on 
the metal.  Obviously we did it wrong.  In retrospect, I don't think 
warm water was a good idea at all.
In case someone else has this same miserable experience, maybe some 
forethought could result in a successful outcome and not our utter 
failure.


--
Ira Sanders
Golden, CO
"My mind is a raging torrent flooded with rivulets of thought 
cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."

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Re: [cobirds] Disturbing bird incident

[Kathy Kay]

The very same thing happened at my feeder this very same week last year.  I
wasn't able to get to the Pine Sisken before it freed itself sans foot
(separated at the knee).  He still comes to my feeder and bird bath.  He
seems to be doing just fine a year after the incident.  You may see your
Goldfinch again soon.

Kathy Kay
Golden, CO

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:34 AM, Christy P  wrote:

> You have to be very careful applying heat of any kind to wildlife
> outdoors, especially one that may already be hypothermic. Oftentimes
> well-intentioned individuals kill animals trying to warm them back up by
> putting them into shock. Finding a heat source that only affects the
> portion of the bird that is stuck, as opposed to its entire body, would be
> recommended. With something as small as an American Goldfinch, assuming
> there wasn't a build-up of ice, maybe even just covering its foot with your
> warm hand and defrosting it that way may have worked, or would in future.
>
> Thanks for sharing Ira, it's always our worst fear to leave birds
> worse-off than they were to begin with. But at least you freed it.
>
> Christy Payne
> Wheat Ridge
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:27 AM Mary Keithler  wrote:
>
>> Hi Ira and birders,
>>
>> Perhaps a hair dryer with a long extension cord would work better.
>>
>> Mary Keithler, Arapahoe County
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 8, 2016, at 8:41 AM, Ira Sanders  wrote:
>>
>> This morning when I went to put out the feeders, there was a goldfinch
>> hanging from the metal arm of the hooks we use to hang the feeders.  At
>> first it wasn't moving and I was wondering how a bird could somehow die in
>> that position.  I have no idea how long it was there, but I'm sure it was
>> long enough to weaken it. As I got closer, I saw it's eyes were open and
>> then it started to flutter a little.  It's foot had frozen to the iron arm
>> and it was hanging by 1 foot.  I ran in to get some water to get it loose,
>> but our efforts, which were incompetent and inadequate, didn't save all of
>> it's foot.
>> My first efforts only caused ice to form and made it worse.
>> The bird did fly from Tammy's hand but part of it's foot was still on the
>> metal.  Obviously we did it wrong.  In retrospect, I don't think warm water
>> was a good idea at all.
>> In case someone else has this same miserable experience, maybe some
>> forethought could result in a successful outcome and not our utter failure.
>>
>> --
>> Ira Sanders
>> Golden, CO
>> "My mind is a raging torrent flooded with rivulets of thought cascading
>> into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> "Colorado Birds" group.
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>> msgid/cobirds/CABF3siFD4-93S4BVOPBHFU26HE%2BPZEHxTdD-
>> J88oz%2BN4W0Y3wQ%40mail.gmail.com
>> 
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>>
>>
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RE: [cobirds] Disturbing bird incident

[Kay Niyo]

I also suggested the following to Ira and Tammy:

 

On your sad story, have you thought of switching to thistle feeders that use 
screening instead of the metal ones?  That is what I have always used and the 
finches cling to them and move around with no problems.  I had never seen metal 
ones with holes until I came to your house last winter.  Your poor little guy 
will probably do ok just missing 1 toe if he didn’t get too weak from no food 
or water for too long.

 

Hang in there.  You are saving LOTS of birds with all your habitat and food!

 

Kay

 

Kayleen A. Niyo, Ph.D.

Niyo Scientific Communications

5651 Garnet St.

Golden, CO 80403

303.679.6646

k...@kayniyo.com; www.KayNiyo.com

 

From: cobirds@googlegroups.com [mailto:cobirds@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Jeff Parks
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 11:46 AM
To: Colorado Birds
Cc: zroadrunne...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [cobirds] Disturbing bird incident

 

Hi all-

 

A little science background on this situation might be helpful.  

 

Metal has a high heat capacity, which means that it takes a large amount of 
heat to change the temperature of the metal.  That is the reason that anything 
with moisture in it will stick to untreated metal in freezing weather - the 
water flash freezes, and attaches to the metal and anything that the water was 
clinging to.  This is why you don't want to lick a metal pole in freezing 
weather, I am sure you have heard of kids getting their tongue stuck to metal 
objects in the winter.  Warm water doesn't help much, because you have to raise 
the temperature of the metal to the point that the ice melts.  Heating the 
metal could be accomplished with a hair dryer or small torch, but needs to be 
done carefully.  A hair dryer will take some time, and a torch will heat the 
metal pretty quickly, possibly causing other problems. Apply the heat to the 
metal a short distance away from the object, not to the object (bird) itself.   
In this situation, it is important to avoid stressing the bird any further as 
well.

 

A better solution is to make sure that any metal objects that birds might perch 
on are properly coated, with paint, rubber coating (like Plasti-dip) or even 
something as simple as electrical tape.  When there is another material between 
the metal and the water, the ice won't stick to the paint, plastic, etc, and 
even if the moisture freezes on contact, it won't stay stuck to the other 
material.  

 

Hope this helps -

 

Jeff Parks

Boulder, CO

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RE: [cobirds] Disturbing bird incident

[Kay Niyo]

I used the “warm hand” method this fall in the huge heavy rain/gale winds we 
had in the Golden area.  I was on the phone with Ann Johnson and noticed a tiny 
saturated brown lump LEGO in the street in the heavy cold rain and being blown 
toward the “river” running in the gutter.  A car almost ran over it.  This was 
when I still had tons of Lesser Goldfinches coming to the thistle feeders.  I 
put on a raincoat and ran out and picked it up and sheltered it in my gently 
closed hand in the house for about 10-15 min.  I peeked at it and it amazingly 
was about dry just from my hand warmth.  With bird in closed hand, I got a 
small shoe box, added a soft cotton washcloth, and carefully placed the little 
juv LEGO in the box and covered it.  Within another 15 min he was all dry and 
peering at me.  The rain had let up and there were lots of LEGOs on the front 
porch feeder, so I took him out onto the covered porch and opened the box.  He 
flew to the window screen, looked at me, and then to the feeder.

 

So, warm hands can work wonders.  Sorry, Ira and Tammy.  Hope that doesn’t 
happen again. 

 

Kay

 

Kayleen A. Niyo, Ph.D.

Niyo Scientific Communications

5651 Garnet St.

Golden, CO 80403

303.679.6646

k...@kayniyo.com; www.KayNiyo.com

 

From: cobirds@googlegroups.com [mailto:cobirds@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Christy P
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 10:35 AM
To: mkeith...@gmail.com; zroadrunne...@gmail.com
Cc: cobirds
Subject: Re: [cobirds] Disturbing bird incident

 

You have to be very careful applying heat of any kind to wildlife outdoors, 
especially one that may already be hypothermic. Oftentimes well-intentioned 
individuals kill animals trying to warm them back up by putting them into 
shock. Finding a heat source that only affects the portion of the bird that is 
stuck, as opposed to its entire body, would be recommended. With something as 
small as an American Goldfinch, assuming there wasn't a build-up of ice, maybe 
even just covering its foot with your warm hand and defrosting it that way may 
have worked, or would in future. 

 

Thanks for sharing Ira, it's always our worst fear to leave birds worse-off 
than they were to begin with. But at least you freed it.

 

Christy Payne

Wheat Ridge

 

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:27 AM Mary Keithler <mkeith...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Ira and birders,

 

Perhaps a hair dryer with a long extension cord would work better.  

 

Mary Keithler, Arapahoe County 

 



Sent from my iPhone


On Dec 8, 2016, at 8:41 AM, Ira Sanders <zroadrunne...@gmail.com> wrote:

This morning when I went to put out the feeders, there was a goldfinch hanging 
from the metal arm of the hooks we use to hang the feeders.  At first it wasn't 
moving and I was wondering how a bird could somehow die in that position.  I 
have no idea how long it was there, but I'm sure it was long enough to weaken 
it. As I got closer, I saw it's eyes were open and then it started to flutter a 
little.  It's foot had frozen to the iron arm and it was hanging by 1 foot.  I 
ran in to get some water to get it loose, but our efforts, which were 
incompetent and inadequate, didn't save all of it's foot.  

My first efforts only caused ice to form and made it worse.  

The bird did fly from Tammy's hand but part of it's foot was still on the 
metal.  Obviously we did it wrong.  In retrospect, I don't think warm water was 
a good idea at all.

In case someone else has this same miserable experience, maybe some forethought 
could result in a successful outcome and not our utter failure.

 

-- 

Ira Sanders

Golden, CO

"My mind is a raging torrent flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a 
waterfall of creative alternatives."

 










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Re: [cobirds] Disturbing bird incident

[Jeff Parks]

Hi all-

A little science background on this situation might be helpful.  

Metal has a high heat capacity, which means that it takes a large amount of 
heat to change the temperature of the metal.  That is the reason that 
anything with moisture in it will stick to untreated metal in freezing 
weather - the water flash freezes, and attaches to the metal and anything 
that the water was clinging to.  This is why you don't want to lick a metal 
pole in freezing weather, I am sure you have heard of kids getting their 
tongue stuck to metal objects in the winter.  Warm water doesn't help much, 
because you have to raise the temperature of the metal to the point that 
the ice melts.  Heating the metal could be accomplished with a hair dryer 
or small torch, but needs to be done carefully.  A hair dryer will take 
some time, and a torch will heat the metal pretty quickly, possibly causing 
other problems. Apply the heat to the metal a short distance away from the 
object, not to the object (bird) itself.   In this situation, it is 
important to avoid stressing the bird any further as well.

A better solution is to make sure that any metal objects that birds might 
perch on are properly coated, with paint, rubber coating (like Plasti-dip) 
or even something as simple as electrical tape.  When there is another 
material between the metal and the water, the ice won't stick to the paint, 
plastic, etc, and even if the moisture freezes on contact, it won't stay 
stuck to the other material.  

Hope this helps -

Jeff Parks
Boulder, CO

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Re: [cobirds] Disturbing bird incident

[Christy P]

You have to be very careful applying heat of any kind to wildlife outdoors,
especially one that may already be hypothermic. Oftentimes well-intentioned
individuals kill animals trying to warm them back up by putting them into
shock. Finding a heat source that only affects the portion of the bird that
is stuck, as opposed to its entire body, would be recommended. With
something as small as an American Goldfinch, assuming there wasn't a
build-up of ice, maybe even just covering its foot with your warm hand and
defrosting it that way may have worked, or would in future.

Thanks for sharing Ira, it's always our worst fear to leave birds worse-off
than they were to begin with. But at least you freed it.

Christy Payne
Wheat Ridge

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:27 AM Mary Keithler  wrote:

> Hi Ira and birders,
>
> Perhaps a hair dryer with a long extension cord would work better.
>
> Mary Keithler, Arapahoe County
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 8, 2016, at 8:41 AM, Ira Sanders  wrote:
>
> This morning when I went to put out the feeders, there was a goldfinch
> hanging from the metal arm of the hooks we use to hang the feeders.  At
> first it wasn't moving and I was wondering how a bird could somehow die in
> that position.  I have no idea how long it was there, but I'm sure it was
> long enough to weaken it. As I got closer, I saw it's eyes were open and
> then it started to flutter a little.  It's foot had frozen to the iron arm
> and it was hanging by 1 foot.  I ran in to get some water to get it loose,
> but our efforts, which were incompetent and inadequate, didn't save all of
> it's foot.
> My first efforts only caused ice to form and made it worse.
> The bird did fly from Tammy's hand but part of it's foot was still on the
> metal.  Obviously we did it wrong.  In retrospect, I don't think warm water
> was a good idea at all.
> In case someone else has this same miserable experience, maybe some
> forethought could result in a successful outcome and not our utter failure.
>
> --
> Ira Sanders
> Golden, CO
> "My mind is a raging torrent flooded with rivulets of thought cascading
> into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
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Re: [cobirds] Disturbing bird incident

[Mary Keithler]

Hi Ira and birders,

Perhaps a hair dryer with a long extension cord would work better.  

Mary Keithler, Arapahoe County 



Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 8, 2016, at 8:41 AM, Ira Sanders  wrote:
> 
> This morning when I went to put out the feeders, there was a goldfinch 
> hanging from the metal arm of the hooks we use to hang the feeders.  At first 
> it wasn't moving and I was wondering how a bird could somehow die in that 
> position.  I have no idea how long it was there, but I'm sure it was long 
> enough to weaken it. As I got closer, I saw it's eyes were open and then it 
> started to flutter a little.  It's foot had frozen to the iron arm and it was 
> hanging by 1 foot.  I ran in to get some water to get it loose, but our 
> efforts, which were incompetent and inadequate, didn't save all of it's foot. 
>  
> My first efforts only caused ice to form and made it worse.  
> The bird did fly from Tammy's hand but part of it's foot was still on the 
> metal.  Obviously we did it wrong.  In retrospect, I don't think warm water 
> was a good idea at all.
> In case someone else has this same miserable experience, maybe some 
> forethought could result in a successful outcome and not our utter failure.
> 
> -- 
> Ira Sanders
> Golden, CO
> "My mind is a raging torrent flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into 
> a waterfall of creative alternatives."
> -- 
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[cobirds] Disturbing bird incident

[Ira Sanders]

This morning when I went to put out the feeders, there was a goldfinch
hanging from the metal arm of the hooks we use to hang the feeders.  At
first it wasn't moving and I was wondering how a bird could somehow die in
that position.  I have no idea how long it was there, but I'm sure it was
long enough to weaken it. As I got closer, I saw it's eyes were open and
then it started to flutter a little.  It's foot had frozen to the iron arm
and it was hanging by 1 foot.  I ran in to get some water to get it loose,
but our efforts, which were incompetent and inadequate, didn't save all of
it's foot.
My first efforts only caused ice to form and made it worse.
The bird did fly from Tammy's hand but part of it's foot was still on the
metal.  Obviously we did it wrong.  In retrospect, I don't think warm water
was a good idea at all.
In case someone else has this same miserable experience, maybe some
forethought could result in a successful outcome and not our utter failure.

-- 
Ira Sanders
Golden, CO
"My mind is a raging torrent flooded with rivulets of thought cascading
into a waterfall of creative alternatives."

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