Re: Very basic need, very difficult to achieve.

[Graham Cox]

> On 3 May 2016, at 8:28 PM, Graham Cox  wrote:
> 
> So probably a redownload isn’t going to help, but I’m doing it anyway.


Success! Finally.

I created a new bootable installer using createinstallmedia and a fresh 
Mavericks download. I did the Pacific Daylight Time change just in case (though 
it sounds like voodoo, I’m prepared to believe anything at this point…)

I was able to install from that disk without further problems and now have a 
working Mavericks OS.

What didn’t work was trying to use the InstallESD.dmg directly. Creating a copy 
of it using DU/Restore worked, but it only created a pure copy of the disk 
image. That image was not bootable, and I was unable to make it so using 
createinstallmedia nor the Ars instructions (which apply to earlier versions of 
the OS anyway). It looks like the InstallESD approach is defunct from 10.9, 
though there may be something I’m missing.

Thanks to everyone for their help.

It certainly shows that upgrading as new versions of the OS are released should 
not be done without a great deal of thought. Leson learned.

—Graham



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Initial scroller style

[Quincey Morris]

I’m designing a new OS X UI via a storyboard, which is mostly a scroll view 
with a fixed-size documentView. If the scroll view is smaller than the 
documentView, IB shows scrollers in the design canvas, which is OK. What’s not 
OK is that these scrollers are shown in scroll bar “channels” on the right and 
bottom of the scroll view, even though I’d expect overlay scrollers (I’m using 
a trackpad, not a mouse).

If I run the app, it also shows scroll bar channels, which is flat-out wrong — 
they should definitely be overlay scrollers at that point, just like in every 
other app I run. If I start to resize the window by dragging, the scrollers 
instantly switch to the overlay style.

Can anyone suggest a way of getting the expected overlay scrollers initially?




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Re: Very basic need, very difficult to achieve.

[Charles Srstka]

> On May 3, 2016, at 10:55 PM, sqwarqDev  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 4 May 2016, at 10:48, Charles Srstka  wrote:
>> 
>> In the earlier downloadable OS X installers, the InstallESD was bootable; in 
>> the current ones it’s not. I don’t remember when that changed,
> 
> 10.7 I believe.

It was definitely bootable in 10.7, because that was the first version that was 
downloadable. It changed to be non-bootable sometime later, although I don’t 
remember which release that occurred in.

>> Aha, ArsTechnica to the rescue. 
> 
> 
> Also, don’t quote me on it, but I believe that Diskmaker app mentioned in the 
> Ars article is still around and still works on 10.11 (I recall a colleague 
> mentioning recently that they used it).

You don’t need third-party apps. The binary inside the install app’s bundle 
does a perfectly good job of creating a bootable disk and/or image.

Charles


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Re: Very basic need, very difficult to achieve.

[sqwarqDev]

> On 4 May 2016, at 10:48, Charles Srstka  wrote:
> 
> In the earlier downloadable OS X installers, the InstallESD was bootable; in 
> the current ones it’s not. I don’t remember when that changed,

10.7 I believe.

> Aha, ArsTechnica to the rescue. 


Also, don’t quote me on it, but I believe that Diskmaker app mentioned in the 
Ars article is still around and still works on 10.11 (I recall a colleague 
mentioning recently that they used it).


Best


Phil


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Re: Very basic need, very difficult to achieve.

[sqwarqDev]

Aha, ArsTechnica to the rescue. 

Here’s the full skinny on how it’s done:

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/07/how-to-create-a-bootable-backup-mountain-lion-install-disk/


Best


Phil


> On 4 May 2016, at 10:38, sqwarqDev  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 4 May 2016, at 10:34, sqwarqDev  wrote:
>> 
>> I don’t know exactly what that does or if its the same function
> 
> From the new DU’s help, step 1 refers to the destination, step 2 the 
> InstallESD:
> 
> Select the volume in the sidebar you want to restore, then select Edit > 
> Restore.
> 
> This is the volume that is erased and becomes the exact copy.
> 
> Click the Restore pop-up menu, then choose the volume you want to copy.
> 
> Click Restore, then click Done.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Very basic need, very difficult to achieve.

[Charles Srstka]

> On May 3, 2016, at 10:28 PM, Graham Cox  wrote:
> 
>> On 4 May 2016, at 12:52 PM, sqwarqDev > > wrote:
>> 
>> Yeah, I’ve been through this. I now have disks with every OS from 10.6 
>> through to 10.11 and a couple of old MBPs to run them on. Treat them like 
>> gold dust. You may well hit that “could not be verified” message again - I 
>> know I did, with every single install.
>> 
>> Eventually, I chanced upon the idea that the checksum was out because of a 
>> time difference. I don’t know if that was true or if it even makes sense as 
>> a theory, but after temporarily changing my timezone to Cupertino time I was 
>> able to get past the roadblock and install.
>> 
> 
> 
> So probably a redownload isn’t going to help, but I’m doing it anyway.
> 
> 
> Thanks for all the tips folks, not there yet but things are moving.
> 
> A couple of questions:
> 
> Going for VMWare, does Fusion do the job, or do I need Fusion Pro?

Fusion has everything you need for this, no need for Pro.

> Within the installer app, there is an embedded .dmg called InstallESD. This 
> seems to be the bulk of the installer. I take it that’s the *REAL* install 
> image. Can I install directly from that, and if so, how?

In the earlier downloadable OS X installers, the InstallESD was bootable; in 
the current ones it’s not. I don’t remember when that changed, so the Mavs one 
may or may not be bootable. However, on the versions that aren’t, there’s a 
“createinstallmedia” command-line tool buried inside the bundle that will make 
a bootable image for you.

Charles

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Re: Very basic need, very difficult to achieve.

[Quincey Morris]

On May 3, 2016, at 20:28 , Graham Cox  wrote:
> 
> Going for VMWare, does Fusion do the job, or do I need Fusion Pro?

Just Fusion. “Pro” has enterprise features you don’t need, unless you’re 
running a coding slave farm up there in the tropics.

> Within the installer app, there is an embedded .dmg called InstallESD. This 
> seems to be the bulk of the installer. I take it that’s the *REAL* install 
> image. Can I install directly from that, and if so, how?

That’s part of what I tried to say before. IIRC, you can mount this, which’ll 
get your hopes up, but you can’t run the installer app that’s in it.

However, if you’re going to use Fusion, again IIRC, you’ll need the store 
installer app on your disc to point it to.

But I won’t swear my memory is correct on these points.

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Re: Very basic need, very difficult to achieve.

[sqwarqDev]

> On 4 May 2016, at 10:34, sqwarqDev  wrote:
> 
> I don’t know exactly what that does or if its the same function

From the new DU’s help, step 1 refers to the destination, step 2 the InstallESD:

Select the volume in the sidebar you want to restore, then select Edit > 
Restore.

This is the volume that is erased and becomes the exact copy.

Click the Restore pop-up menu, then choose the volume you want to copy.

Click Restore, then click Done.



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Re: Very basic need, very difficult to achieve.

[sqwarqDev]

> On 4 May 2016, at 10:28, Graham Cox  wrote:
> 
> This seems to be the bulk of the installer. I take it that’s the *REAL* 
> install image. Can I install directly from that, and if so, how?


Yes you can. The old way was mount the InstallESD image in the Finder and then 
use Disk Utility’s ‘Restore’ tab. The new DU doesn’t have that, but in the 
Images menu there is a ‘Scan Image for Restore…’ option. I don’t know exactly 
what that does or if its the same function; I guess you’ll be putting on your 
pioneering boots here!






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Re: Very basic need, very difficult to achieve.

[Graham Cox]

> On 4 May 2016, at 12:52 PM, sqwarqDev  wrote:
> 
> Yeah, I’ve been through this. I now have disks with every OS from 10.6 
> through to 10.11 and a couple of old MBPs to run them on. Treat them like 
> gold dust. You may well hit that “could not be verified” message again - I 
> know I did, with every single install.
> 
> Eventually, I chanced upon the idea that the checksum was out because of a 
> time difference. I don’t know if that was true or if it even makes sense as a 
> theory, but after temporarily changing my timezone to Cupertino time I was 
> able to get past the roadblock and install.
> 


So probably a redownload isn’t going to help, but I’m doing it anyway.


Thanks for all the tips folks, not there yet but things are moving.

A couple of questions:

Going for VMWare, does Fusion do the job, or do I need Fusion Pro?

Within the installer app, there is an embedded .dmg called InstallESD. This 
seems to be the bulk of the installer. I take it that’s the *REAL* install 
image. Can I install directly from that, and if so, how?


—Graham



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Re: Very basic need, very difficult to achieve.

[sqwarqDev]

> On 4 May 2016, at 10:08, Carl Hoefs  wrote:
> 
> I don't know why, but you'll find that none of your previously purchased 
> items will be grayed out there.

What’s installed isn’t a historical record attached to your account. As 
indicated in my earlier post, it’s actually a live search of the current and 
any connected disks (probably using locate given its speed, but in any case…). 
That’s why you get a short delay when you hit the ‘Purchased’ tab.


Best


Phil


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Re: Very basic need, very difficult to achieve.

[Carl Hoefs]

> On May 3, 2016, at 7:18 PM, Graham Cox  wrote:
> 
> I went to the app store (arrgh!!) to redownload the full installer image (why 
> oh why is this not available as a developer download from apple dev? Using 
> the app store is an abysmal non-choice to force on developers). I could not 
> download 10.9 as the button was greyed out with “downloaded” on it.

Go to a different machine, launch AppStore, and select the Purchased tab. I 
don't know why, but you'll find that none of your previously purchased items 
will be grayed out there. This is how I re-download already downloaded items.
-Carl


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Re: Very basic need, very difficult to achieve.

[Phil Stokes]

> On 4 May 2016, at 09:18, Graham Cox  wrote:
> 
> I could not download 10.9 as the button was greyed out with “downloaded” on 
> it.


Yeah, about that. 

Whenever you download from the App Store, save a copy of the installer BEFORE 
you run it. 

Copy it off onto some removable media device. If you ever want to re-download 
the same installer, make sure that removable device is disconnected. App Store 
searches for the installer (starting in /Applications but going through every 
mounted device) to see if the installer is already present. If it is, you get 
the greyed-out button.


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Re: Very basic need, very difficult to achieve.

[sqwarqDev]

> On 4 May 2016, at 09:18, Graham Cox  wrote:
> 
> I could not download 10.9 as the button was greyed out with “downloaded” on 
> it.

Yeah, about that. 

Whenever you download from the App Store, save a copy of the installer BEFORE 
you run it. 

Copy it off onto some removable media device. If you ever want to re-download 
the same installer, make sure that removable device is disconnected. App Store 
searches for the installer (starting in /Applications but going through every 
mounted device) to see if the installer is already present. If it is, you get 
the greyed-out button.


Best


Phil
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Re: Very basic need, very difficult to achieve.

[sqwarqDev]

> On 4 May 2016, at 09:18, Graham Cox  wrote:
> 
> but at that point it gave an error that the installer could not be verified 
> and ‘may’ be corrupt.

Yeah, I’ve been through this. I now have disks with every OS from 10.6 through 
to 10.11 and a couple of old MBPs to run them on. Treat them like gold dust. 
You may well hit that “could not be verified” message again - I know I did, 
with every single install.

Eventually, I chanced upon the idea that the checksum was out because of a time 
difference. I don’t know if that was true or if it even makes sense as a 
theory, but after temporarily changing my timezone to Cupertino time I was able 
to get past the roadblock and install.


Best


Phil

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Re: Very basic need, very difficult to achieve.

[Graham Cox]

> On 4 May 2016, at 10:31 AM, Graham Cox  wrote:
> 
>> Downgrading the OS (even on a second partition) isn’t actually that
>> simple of a request. If your computer was released after OS X Mavericks,
>> it definitely cannot support running OS X Mavericks.
> 
> In this case it’s a MId-2010 iMac, should be OK...
> 
>> It’s also possible
>> that a firmware fix or disk format change may have shipped in a newer
>> OS, and older OSes are not qualified against that configuration.
> 
> …subject to that of course.
> 



Some progress, more roadblocks…

I was able to create a bootable installer using the createmediainstaller 
command line.

I was able to see this disk when I rebooted with the option key down, and it 
booted into that disk.

I was initially able to run the installer and choose a target disk, but at that 
point it gave an error that the installer could not be verified and ‘may’ be 
corrupt.

I went to the app store (arrgh!!) to redownload the full installer image (why 
oh why is this not available as a developer download from apple dev? Using the 
app store is an abysmal non-choice to force on developers). I could not 
download 10.9 as the button was greyed out with “downloaded” on it.

So now I’m attempting to download 10.8 and see whether I can upgrade to 10.9 
from there.

If Apple had anything other than contempt for their developers they’d surely 
make this process easier. I can understand why they might not want to make it 
easy for a typical user to downgrade (though why not, actually?), but a 
developer has a legitimate reason to set up an older OS for testing. If Xcode 
had some sort of reliable mechanism for detecting problems when targeting an 
older OS that would not matter so much, but it doesn’t - so many uses of API 
that target later than the minimum build OS go unwarned that there’s no 
substitute for running on those older versions to find the bugs. And usage 
statistics show that users are still running 10.8 and 10.9 in significant 
percentages.

Does anyone have a reliable source for a 10.9 full install download that 
doesn’t involve the app store? At this point I’ll try anything, including a 
Pirate Bay torrent if need be. Apple, shame on you for forcing this situation, 
it’s absoutely pathetic.

—Graham



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Re: Very basic need, very difficult to achieve.

[Alex Zavatone]

That should work. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 3, 2016, at 8:31 PM, Graham Cox  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 4 May 2016, at 10:17 AM, Kyle Sluder  wrote:
>> 
>> Downgrading the OS (even on a second partition) isn’t actually that
>> simple of a request. If your computer was released after OS X Mavericks,
>> it definitely cannot support running OS X Mavericks.
> 
> In this case it’s a MId-2010 iMac, should be OK...
> 
>> It’s also possible
>> that a firmware fix or disk format change may have shipped in a newer
>> OS, and older OSes are not qualified against that configuration.
> 
> …subject to that of course.
> 
> 
>> Virtualization of recent versions of OS X is permitted on Apple-branded
>> hardware. That’s probably your best bet.
> 
> 
> I’m looking into that; it’s a continuining problem, be nice to solve it 
> professionally. VMWare Fusion right?
> 
> 
>> On 4 May 2016, at 10:15 AM, Sandor Szatmari  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Can you make a bootable USB drive and install from there?
>> 
>> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372
> 
> 
> Also looking into that, thanks!
> 
> —Graham
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Very basic need, very difficult to achieve.

[Alex Zavatone]

Along those lines, is it at all possible to disable the damn memory compression?

Ever since memory compression has been enabled on the OS level, my older 
machines that I have had to upgrade have horrible performance, even with 16 GB 
of RAM.  

This memory compression is simply EVIL on machines with RAM that’s 1067 MHz or 
less.


The older Macs that I can keep on 10.6.7, well, it’s REALLY NICE, but I can’t 
do daily work on those.



On May 3, 2016, at 8:17 PM, Kyle Sluder  wrote:

> On Tue, May 3, 2016, at 06:28 PM, Graham Cox wrote:
>> My main dev machine runs the latest OS - 10.11.4
>> 
>> I need to install a 10.9 image on a disk partition for development
>> testing.
>> 
>> How?
>> 
>> Apple’s dev site is getting worse all the time - wasting its time selling
>> you something you already have - OS X - but hiding away basic resources,
>> like an OS 9 installer that I can download. I’ve just spent 20 minutes
>> fruitlessly searching the dev site. It’s utterly baffling, taking you
>> round and round in circles.
>> 
>> How can I do this? Surely it’s actually possible, somehow?
>> 
>> Note that I do have an old Mavericks Installer, but it refuses to run on
>> 10.11, saying that the app is too old ro run on this version of the OS. I
>> also have not been able to set the partition I intend to use (that
>> contains the installer) as a startup disk. I seem to recall that there
>> was a thread about this not long ago, I even seem to remember pitching in
>> something, but now I come to need it myself, I can’t get it to work.
> 
> Downgrading the OS (even on a second partition) isn’t actually that
> simple of a request. If your computer was released after OS X Mavericks,
> it definitely cannot support running OS X Mavericks. It’s also possible
> that a firmware fix or disk format change may have shipped in a newer
> OS, and older OSes are not qualified against that configuration.
> 
> Virtualization of recent versions of OS X is permitted on Apple-branded
> hardware. That’s probably your best bet.
> 
> --Kyle
> 
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Re: Very basic need, very difficult to achieve.

[Quincey Morris]

On May 3, 2016, at 17:21 , Alex Zavatone  wrote:
> 
> Whaat?  Any OS installers at all?
> 
> What types of errors does it throw?

IIRC, however you get the older installer, you still have to run it as an app 
under the current OS, and it just says the installer is too old to run as an 
application. If you try via reboot with the Option key held down, you get into 
recovery mode, but I don’t think I had any success in proceeding with either 
download or installation of an older OS.

There may well be a way of going backwards from 10.11, but I also got 
frustrated and gave up before I found it.

If you plan(ned) ahead, the best solution is(would have been) to keeping 
working bootable external disks for each OS version. I didn’t.

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Re: Very basic need, very difficult to achieve.

[Graham Cox]

> On 4 May 2016, at 10:17 AM, Kyle Sluder  wrote:
> 
> Downgrading the OS (even on a second partition) isn’t actually that
> simple of a request. If your computer was released after OS X Mavericks,
> it definitely cannot support running OS X Mavericks.

In this case it’s a MId-2010 iMac, should be OK...

> It’s also possible
> that a firmware fix or disk format change may have shipped in a newer
> OS, and older OSes are not qualified against that configuration.

…subject to that of course.


> Virtualization of recent versions of OS X is permitted on Apple-branded
> hardware. That’s probably your best bet.


I’m looking into that; it’s a continuining problem, be nice to solve it 
professionally. VMWare Fusion right?


> On 4 May 2016, at 10:15 AM, Sandor Szatmari  
> wrote:
> 
> Can you make a bootable USB drive and install from there?
> 
> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372


Also looking into that, thanks!

—Graham



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Re: Very basic need, very difficult to achieve.

[Alex Zavatone]

On May 3, 2016, at 8:13 PM, Quincey Morris 
 wrote:

> On May 3, 2016, at 16:28 , Graham Cox  wrote:
>> 
>> I need to install a 10.9 image on a disk partition for development testing.
>> 
>> How?
> 
> I did start a thread about this, which might be the one you are remembering.
> 
> You’re fighting a number of road blocks. The important one is that a Mac 
> cannot run a version of OS X that’s older than the one it originally arrived 
> with. (That is, older versions may not have the drivers and other 
> hardware-dependent software needed to operate a newer Mac correctly.)
> 
> Secondarily, it does seem that the current (10.11) OS won’t run older 
> installers under any circumstances.

Whaat?  Any OS installers at all?

What types of errors does it throw?



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Re: Very basic need, very difficult to achieve.

[Kyle Sluder]

On Tue, May 3, 2016, at 06:28 PM, Graham Cox wrote:
> My main dev machine runs the latest OS - 10.11.4
> 
> I need to install a 10.9 image on a disk partition for development
> testing.
> 
> How?
> 
> Apple’s dev site is getting worse all the time - wasting its time selling
> you something you already have - OS X - but hiding away basic resources,
> like an OS 9 installer that I can download. I’ve just spent 20 minutes
> fruitlessly searching the dev site. It’s utterly baffling, taking you
> round and round in circles.
> 
> How can I do this? Surely it’s actually possible, somehow?
> 
> Note that I do have an old Mavericks Installer, but it refuses to run on
> 10.11, saying that the app is too old ro run on this version of the OS. I
> also have not been able to set the partition I intend to use (that
> contains the installer) as a startup disk. I seem to recall that there
> was a thread about this not long ago, I even seem to remember pitching in
> something, but now I come to need it myself, I can’t get it to work.

Downgrading the OS (even on a second partition) isn’t actually that
simple of a request. If your computer was released after OS X Mavericks,
it definitely cannot support running OS X Mavericks. It’s also possible
that a firmware fix or disk format change may have shipped in a newer
OS, and older OSes are not qualified against that configuration.

Virtualization of recent versions of OS X is permitted on Apple-branded
hardware. That’s probably your best bet.

--Kyle

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Re: Very basic need, very difficult to achieve.

[Sandor Szatmari]

Can you make a bootable USB drive and install from there?

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372

Sandor Szatmari

> On May 3, 2016, at 19:28, Graham Cox  wrote:
> 
> My main dev machine runs the latest OS - 10.11.4
> 
> I need to install a 10.9 image on a disk partition for development testing.
> 
> How?
> 
> Apple’s dev site is getting worse all the time - wasting its time selling you 
> something you already have - OS X - but hiding away basic resources, like an 
> OS 9 installer that I can download. I’ve just spent 20 minutes fruitlessly 
> searching the dev site. It’s utterly baffling, taking you round and round in 
> circles.
> 
> How can I do this? Surely it’s actually possible, somehow?
> 
> Note that I do have an old Mavericks Installer, but it refuses to run on 
> 10.11, saying that the app is too old ro run on this version of the OS. I 
> also have not been able to set the partition I intend to use (that contains 
> the installer) as a startup disk. I seem to recall that there was a thread 
> about this not long ago, I even seem to remember pitching in something, but 
> now I come to need it myself, I can’t get it to work.
> 
> Very frustrating!
> 
> —Graham
> 
> 
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Re: Very basic need, very difficult to achieve.

[Quincey Morris]

On May 3, 2016, at 16:28 , Graham Cox  wrote:
> 
> I need to install a 10.9 image on a disk partition for development testing.
> 
> How?

I did start a thread about this, which might be the one you are remembering.

You’re fighting a number of road blocks. The important one is that a Mac cannot 
run a version of OS X that’s older than the one it originally arrived with. 
(That is, older versions may not have the drivers and other hardware-dependent 
software needed to operate a newer Mac correctly.)

Secondarily, it does seem that the current (10.11) OS won’t run older 
installers under any circumstances. At the time this came up, I had a 2011-era 
iMac, so it should have been able to go back at least a few versions, but it 
wouldn’t. It’s possible that there might be a way of doing it if you reboot to 
the recovery partition, and then somehow force a download of the older OS, but 
I couldn’t find a way to do it.

In the end, I gave up on this and went to virtualization instead. VMWare was 
what I chose, and it worked great, although it was a bit slow. I also thought 
there was a way to run virtualization in OS X Server somehow, but I couldn’t 
find any documentation to support that idea. So, VMWare or Parallels.

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Very basic need, very difficult to achieve.

[Graham Cox]

My main dev machine runs the latest OS - 10.11.4

I need to install a 10.9 image on a disk partition for development testing.

How?

Apple’s dev site is getting worse all the time - wasting its time selling you 
something you already have - OS X - but hiding away basic resources, like an OS 
9 installer that I can download. I’ve just spent 20 minutes fruitlessly 
searching the dev site. It’s utterly baffling, taking you round and round in 
circles.

How can I do this? Surely it’s actually possible, somehow?

Note that I do have an old Mavericks Installer, but it refuses to run on 10.11, 
saying that the app is too old ro run on this version of the OS. I also have 
not been able to set the partition I intend to use (that contains the 
installer) as a startup disk. I seem to recall that there was a thread about 
this not long ago, I even seem to remember pitching in something, but now I 
come to need it myself, I can’t get it to work.

Very frustrating!

—Graham

 
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Popover anchors are frequently in the wrong place

[Rick Mann]

I have a simple UINavigationController stack with a single VC. The nav bar has 
an Action UIBarButtonItem. I present a UIActivityViewController and set the 
.popoverPresentationController?.barButtonItem to my bar button item.

But the anchor point is not in the center of the bar button item, it's more 
like in the lower-right.

I had similar behavior when I was popping one up from a UIButton in a different 
part of my UI. I fixed that by also specifying the source rect. But there's not 
really a frame for UIBarButtonItems (curse you, Apple, for not making those 
views). All the methods for getting a frame are really hacky.

For a long time now, I've had problems with popovers not anchoring to the right 
place. Why does the default API do this so badly? Am I just missing something?

-- 
Rick Mann
rm...@latencyzero.com



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Re: Yosemite NSCollectionView appropriate for spreadsheet-like view?

[Jonathan Mitchell]

> On 1 May 2016, at 17:06, thatsanicehatyouh...@me.com wrote:
> 
>  My guess is that since the basic unit here is NSTableRowView, all of the 
> columns are loaded into each row view whether they are on the screen or not.
> 
View based table views recycle their views and I have found them to be very 
flexible in use.
There is a lot of functionality in there.
If the default behaviour of NSTableRowView is causing an issue them you can 
always subclass this and provide it to the NSTableView via. 

- (NSTableRowView *)tableView:(NSTableView *)tableView 
rowViewForRow:(NSInteger)row 

J


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Re: Yosemite NSCollectionView appropriate for spreadsheet-like view?

[Robert Clair]

Model your spread sheet on a (hypothetical 2-D)TableView. Maintain a pool of 
cells starting with enough to cover the view at the default size plus a bit of 
margin. As cells scroll off the view return them to the pool;  as you need new 
ones get them from the pool. If the pool is empty you allocate a new one. It’s 
a bit complicated - you have to keep track of the scrolling in two directions 
and have to account for anything else that changes which cells are visible. But 
I’ve done it and it works. Unfortunately it was for a commercial client and I 
no longer have the code so I can’t share it.

…Robert

> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 03 May 2016 11:53:16 -0700
> From: Jens Alfke >
> To: thatsanicehatyouh...@me.com 
> Cc: cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com 
> Subject: Re: Yosemite NSCollectionView appropriate for
>   spreadsheet-like view?
> Message-ID:  >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> 
>> On May 1, 2016, at 9:06 AM, thatsanicehatyouh...@me.com 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> As I've been thinking about this problem it occurred to me that the new(ish) 
>> NSCollectionView might be a viable replacement in this case. Before I go 
>> down the rabbit hole, is it reasonable to use to create a spreadsheet-like 
>> view?
> 
> No, because it eagerly creates a view for every item in the collection. So if 
> you have a spreadsheet with 100,000 cells, it’s going to create 100,000 
> NSViews when the window opens.
> 
> NSMatrix may work better because it uses only a single view, but IIRC it 
> still preallocates an NSCell for every item. Also I think it’s been 
> deprecated.
> 
> I suspect you’ll need a custom view that uses cells or some other 
> lightweight-view design pattern to avoid consuming resources for items that 
> aren’t currently visible. (Of course, someone else may have already 
> implemented that custom view, either as open source or commercially.)
> 
> —Jens
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Re: Yosemite NSCollectionView appropriate for spreadsheet-like view?

[Jens Alfke]

> On May 3, 2016, at 12:33 PM, Alex Kac  wrote:
> 
> There is the old NSCollectionView and the new. You have to use the new 
> delegate methods and so on. Its the same class, but behind the scenes the new 
> collection view is literally the UICollectionView from iOS ported over 
> (syslog even says UICollectionView…). Its not *at all obvious*.

Oh! I was not aware of the new API. I haven’t updated the 
collection-view-related code in my app in a year or two. Should definitely do 
some work on it soon…

—Jens
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Re: Yosemite NSCollectionView appropriate for spreadsheet-like view?

[Alex Kac]

There is the old NSCollectionView and the new. You have to use the new delegate 
methods and so on. Its the same class, but behind the scenes the new collection 
view is literally the UICollectionView from iOS ported over (syslog even says 
UICollectionView…). Its not *at all obvious*.

I know I worked with it a few months ago and it was reusing the cells.

> On May 3, 2016, at 1:23 PM, Jens Alfke  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On May 3, 2016, at 12:08 PM, thatsanicehatyouh...@me.com wrote:
>> 
>> I should have been more specific - my understanding was that 
>> NSCollectionView from 10.11 onward did not do this... which Alex Kac just 
>> beat me to mentioning! I was curious if anyone was aware of limitations of 
>> this scope with that caveat.
> 
> I dunno — I have a Mac app using NSCollectionView, and before I sent my post, 
> I experimentally added some logging to the -init method of the NSView 
> subclass that draws the cells. I opened a window with a few hundred items 
> (about four or five screenfuls) and saw that all of the views got initialized 
> at the moment the window opened.
> 
> This is on 10.11.4, and I built the app with Xcode 7.3, so I should be 
> getting whatever the latest behavior is.
> 
> Is there some particular way I have to configure the collection view to get 
> the lazy-loading behavior?
> 
> 


Alex Kac - El capitán


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Re: Yosemite NSCollectionView appropriate for spreadsheet-like view?

[Jens Alfke]

> On May 3, 2016, at 12:08 PM, thatsanicehatyouh...@me.com wrote:
> 
> I should have been more specific - my understanding was that NSCollectionView 
> from 10.11 onward did not do this... which Alex Kac just beat me to 
> mentioning! I was curious if anyone was aware of limitations of this scope 
> with that caveat.

I dunno — I have a Mac app using NSCollectionView, and before I sent my post, I 
experimentally added some logging to the -init method of the NSView subclass 
that draws the cells. I opened a window with a few hundred items (about four or 
five screenfuls) and saw that all of the views got initialized at the moment 
the window opened.

This is on 10.11.4, and I built the app with Xcode 7.3, so I should be getting 
whatever the latest behavior is.

Is there some particular way I have to configure the collection view to get the 
lazy-loading behavior?

—Jens
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Re: Yosemite NSCollectionView appropriate for spreadsheet-like view?

[thatsanicehatyouhave]

On May 3, 2016, at 2:53 PM, Jens Alfke  wrote:

> No, because it eagerly creates a view for every item in the collection. So if 
> you have a spreadsheet with 100,000 cells, it’s going to create 100,000 
> NSViews when the window opens.

I should have been more specific - my understanding was that NSCollectionView 
from 10.11 onward did not do this... which Alex Kac just beat me to mentioning! 
I was curious if anyone was aware of limitations of this scope with that caveat.

I will note that I found this by Matt Ball which looks interesting:

https://github.com/mattball/mbtablegrid/

While seven years old (and a bit glitchy) it does compile. Tommy van der Vorst 
forked it a while back and has updated it, so for anyone looking this is a 
great starting point. Well, actually pretty complete as it's used in a shipping 
product.

https://github.com/pixelspark/mbtablegrid

Cheers,
Demitri
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Re: Yosemite NSCollectionView appropriate for spreadsheet-like view?

[Alex Kac]

10.11 CollectionView reuses views and doesn’t create 100,000 cells. So that 
could be appropriate.

> On May 3, 2016, at 12:53 PM, Jens Alfke  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On May 1, 2016, at 9:06 AM, thatsanicehatyouh...@me.com wrote:
>> 
>> As I've been thinking about this problem it occurred to me that the new(ish) 
>> NSCollectionView might be a viable replacement in this case. Before I go 
>> down the rabbit hole, is it reasonable to use to create a spreadsheet-like 
>> view?
> 
> No, because it eagerly creates a view for every item in the collection. So if 
> you have a spreadsheet with 100,000 cells, it’s going to create 100,000 
> NSViews when the window opens.
> 
> NSMatrix may work better because it uses only a single view, but IIRC it 
> still preallocates an NSCell for every item. Also I think it’s been 
> deprecated.
> 
> I suspect you’ll need a custom view that uses cells or some other 
> lightweight-view design pattern to avoid consuming resources for items that 
> aren’t currently visible. (Of course, someone else may have already 
> implemented that custom view, either as open source or commercially.)
> 
> —Jens
> ___
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Alex Kac - El capitán


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Re: Yosemite NSCollectionView appropriate for spreadsheet-like view?

[Jens Alfke]

> On May 1, 2016, at 9:06 AM, thatsanicehatyouh...@me.com wrote:
> 
> As I've been thinking about this problem it occurred to me that the new(ish) 
> NSCollectionView might be a viable replacement in this case. Before I go down 
> the rabbit hole, is it reasonable to use to create a spreadsheet-like view?

No, because it eagerly creates a view for every item in the collection. So if 
you have a spreadsheet with 100,000 cells, it’s going to create 100,000 NSViews 
when the window opens.

NSMatrix may work better because it uses only a single view, but IIRC it still 
preallocates an NSCell for every item. Also I think it’s been deprecated.

I suspect you’ll need a custom view that uses cells or some other 
lightweight-view design pattern to avoid consuming resources for items that 
aren’t currently visible. (Of course, someone else may have already implemented 
that custom view, either as open source or commercially.)

—Jens
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Re: Refresh View After Mouse Inactivity

[Richard Charles]

> On May 3, 2016, at 7:30 AM, Dave  wrote:
> 
> How about sending it a Keystroke then?

I tried that several days ago and it did work!

void MySimulatedKeystroke(CGKeyCode virtualKey)
{
// Key down
CGEventRef e1 = CGEventCreateKeyboardEvent(NULL, virtualKey, true);
CGEventPost(kCGSessionEventTap, e1);
CFRelease(e1);

// Key up
CGEventRef e2 = CGEventCreateKeyboardEvent(NULL, virtualKey, false);
CGEventPost(kCGSessionEventTap, e2);
CFRelease(e2);
}

The problem was that the cursor can be in a text field with the text selected 
but the mouse elsewhere in the custom view. The custom view also responds to a 
lot of keyboard actions. So the problem was finding a keystroke which would be 
interpreted as a do nothing in the text field nor would ever do anything 
harmful or cause any side effects elsewhere. I tried a lot of different key 
strokes but could not find any that truly did nothing.

I also tried other types of benign events but they did not trigger the run 
loop. In my opinion this run loop has become a very stubborn thing. Prior to OS 
X 10.10 Yosemite you could do several things to cause the run loop to run once 
but not anymore.

I have not yet investigated NSActivityOptions as was suggested by Quincey but I 
have been rethinking my whole strategy and what I am trying to accomplish. For 
now I have moved in another direction which gives the user a little different 
type of feedback but may end up working well.

--Richard Charles


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Re: Refresh View After Mouse Inactivity

[Dave]

> However if I press any key on the keyboard after mouse has stopped moving and 
> the delay time period has passed then presto the view refreshes.
> 
> --Richard Charles

How about sending it a Keystroke then?



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Apple Developer Reference Library Safari Plugin

[Dave]

Hi All,

I know this has come up before but after 20 mins of searching I’ve not managed 
to find it.

There is a Safari Plugin that add Apple Developer Reference Library support. I 
used to have this installed but I had to reinstall and I must have forgotten to 
copy it. If anyone could point me to the URL for this I’d be really grateful.

All the Best
Dave


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Re: Custom window disappears dragging to second display

[Dave]

Alex,

Have you updated your Graphics Drivers? This sounds like a different version of 
the >1 Monitor/>1 Graphics Card problem on Mac OS X 10.11.

Dave



> On 3 May 2016, at 03:33, Alex Zavatone  wrote:
> 
> Are you talking within Xcode?  This always crashes Xcode for me.  Simply 
> dragging one window that has shrunken down from the 15” MBP display onto the 
> Thunderbolt. BLAM.  No more Xcode.
> 
> 
> 
> On May 2, 2016, at 10:26 PM, Trygve Inda  > wrote:
> 
>> I have a custom window that basically eliminates the large title area.
>> 
>> When you drag a normal window to a second screen, as the drag is in
>> progress, the window appears semi-transparent on the second screen until
>> enough of the window covers the second screen, whereupon it becomes opaque
>> on the second screen and semi-transparent on the original one.
>> 
>> With my custom window, as the drag is in progress, the window portion that
>> is supposed to be semi-transparent is 100% transparent - not visible at all.
>> 
>> What would cause this?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Trygve
>> 
>> 
>> 
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