Re: Size of compiled NIBs in Xcode 9 (10.13 SDK)

[Saagar Jha]

Have you tried assetutil? Run it with assetutil —info [Assets.car]

Saagar Jha

> On Jan 24, 2018, at 13:24, Alex Zavatone  wrote:
> 
> I think I may have asked this before, but is there a tool or command line 
> available to unpack these assets.car files so that we can inspect what’s 
> inside?
> 
> Thanks,
> Alex Zavatone
> 
>> On Jan 24, 2018, at 1:56 PM, Jeremy Hughes > > wrote:
>> 
>>> On 24 Jan 2018, at 19:46, Dragan Milić  wrote:
>>> 
>>> BTW, in both cases (Xcode 9 - 10.13 SDK and Xcode 8 - 10.12 SDK) the 
>>> deployment target is macOS 10.11, so I don't think that setting matters.
>> 
>> Vince has explained why it does matter.
>> 
>> If you change the deployment target to 10.13 (which you probably don’t want 
>> to do) the application icons should no longer be duplicated. They’re 
>> currently being duplicated for backwards compatibility with old systems.
>> 
>> Jeremy
>> 
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Re: Size of compiled NIBs in Xcode 9 (10.13 SDK)

[Alex Zavatone]

> On Jan 24, 2018, at 3:41 PM, Vince DeMarco  wrote:
> 
> There isn't, if you would like one please file a bug with apple requesting 
> this.
> 
> Vince

Done.

https://bugreport.apple.com/web/?problemID=36838243

36838243

Please provide a tool or CLI to allow us to unpack an assets.car file.
Created on January 24 2018, 3:55 PM for Developer Tools

Summary:
Xcode creates .car files from asset libs, but there is no tool available to 
allow users to unpack a .car file to examine the results for problems or 
differences in two .car files.  Please provide one that can be run from the 
terminal as part of a Developer Command Line Tools installation or one as part 
of the Xcode >  Open Developer Tool menu from the Xcode menu bar.


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Re: Size of compiled NIBs in Xcode 9 (10.13 SDK)

[Vince DeMarco]

There isn't, if you would like one please file a bug with apple requesting this.

Vince

> On Jan 24, 2018, at 1:24 PM, Alex Zavatone  wrote:
> 
> I think I may have asked this before, but is there a tool or command line 
> available to unpack these assets.car files so that we can inspect what’s 
> inside?
> 
> Thanks,
> Alex Zavatone
> 
>> On Jan 24, 2018, at 1:56 PM, Jeremy Hughes > > wrote:
>> 
>>> On 24 Jan 2018, at 19:46, Dragan Milić  wrote:
>>> 
>>> BTW, in both cases (Xcode 9 - 10.13 SDK and Xcode 8 - 10.12 SDK) the 
>>> deployment target is macOS 10.11, so I don't think that setting matters.
>> 
>> Vince has explained why it does matter.
>> 
>> If you change the deployment target to 10.13 (which you probably don’t want 
>> to do) the application icons should no longer be duplicated. They’re 
>> currently being duplicated for backwards compatibility with old systems.
>> 
>> Jeremy
>> 
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Re: Size of compiled NIBs in Xcode 9 (10.13 SDK)

[Vince DeMarco]

Please file a bug with apple, and post the radar number here.

Please include a simple test project that shows the nib changes.

Vince

> On Jan 24, 2018, at 1:23 PM, Dragan Milić  wrote:
> 
> On Jan 24, 2018, at 20.56, Jeremy Hughes wrote:
> 
>> Vince has explained why it does matter.
>> 
>> If you change the deployment target to 10.13 (which you probably don’t want 
>> to do) the application icons should no longer be duplicated. They’re 
>> currently being duplicated for backwards compatibility with old systems.
> 
> I'm not talking about icons and assets, I'm talking about compiled NIBs, 
> please read my initial message again. Changing to 10.13 as the deployment 
> target changes nothing in my case, compiled NIBs are still considerably 
> bigger than those compiled with Xcode 8 (and its embedded ibtool and 10.12 
> SDK).
> 
> -- Dragan
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Re: Size of compiled NIBs in Xcode 9 (10.13 SDK)

[Alex Zavatone]

Dragan, if you are able to make a build where the .nib is not compressed, you 
could diff them or simply open them in an editor and see the difference between 
both?

Back when I worked at Macromedia on this prehistoric product known as Director 
and this other thing known as Shockwave, whenever we ran into a problem like 
this, to get to the root of it we’d first try to replicate the problem in the 
simplest manner possible.

Like simplifying an equation by removing unnecessary variables or unneeded 
complexity.

But you clearly also have cases that do exhibit the problem.  It’s a waste to 
only test the simple case if you can also test the more complex one at the same 
time and also include another set of simple cases that might spell out the 
nature of what is happening.

Running with those concepts, 
- put one of your nibs in a new project 
- add a new nib and add one field to it
- create another nib and add one image to it.
- add a high resolution image to an asset and assign it to that image.
- add an icon to your app icon in the assets.xcassets file.

Make sure either your settings are set to not compress the nibs or build a 
debug build, whichever doesn’t compile the nibs down.

Build in Xcode 8 targeting 10.12 and build in Xcode 9 targeting 10.13.

Open up each of the nibs in an XML editor and compare the differences, or 
simply compare file sizes before opening.  I’d actually think it would be more 
helpful to see the XML inside the nibs, but that’s just me .  

My suspicion is that you will see no significant changes in the nib that has 
just the field in it.  
We expect that there will be differences in the nib that you included from your 
app.
The other files will be interesting andI suspect should illustrate the issue 
clearly.

Hope this helps.
Alex Zavatone

> On Jan 24, 2018, at 3:23 PM, Dragan Milić  wrote:
> 
> On Jan 24, 2018, at 20.56, Jeremy Hughes wrote:
> 
>> Vince has explained why it does matter.
>> 
>> If you change the deployment target to 10.13 (which you probably don’t want 
>> to do) the application icons should no longer be duplicated. They’re 
>> currently being duplicated for backwards compatibility with old systems.
> 
> I'm not talking about icons and assets, I'm talking about compiled NIBs, 
> please read my initial message again. Changing to 10.13 as the deployment 
> target changes nothing in my case, compiled NIBs are still considerably 
> bigger than those compiled with Xcode 8 (and its embedded ibtool and 10.12 
> SDK).
> 
> -- Dragan
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Re: Size of compiled NIBs in Xcode 9 (10.13 SDK)

[Alex Zavatone]

I think I may have asked this before, but is there a tool or command line 
available to unpack these assets.car files so that we can inspect what’s inside?

Thanks,
Alex Zavatone

> On Jan 24, 2018, at 1:56 PM, Jeremy Hughes  
> wrote:
> 
>> On 24 Jan 2018, at 19:46, Dragan Milić  wrote:
>> 
>> BTW, in both cases (Xcode 9 - 10.13 SDK and Xcode 8 - 10.12 SDK) the 
>> deployment target is macOS 10.11, so I don't think that setting matters.
> 
> Vince has explained why it does matter.
> 
> If you change the deployment target to 10.13 (which you probably don’t want 
> to do) the application icons should no longer be duplicated. They’re 
> currently being duplicated for backwards compatibility with old systems.
> 
> Jeremy
> 
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Re: Size of compiled NIBs in Xcode 9 (10.13 SDK)

[Dragan Milić]

On Jan 24, 2018, at 20.56, Jeremy Hughes wrote:

> Vince has explained why it does matter.
> 
> If you change the deployment target to 10.13 (which you probably don’t want 
> to do) the application icons should no longer be duplicated. They’re 
> currently being duplicated for backwards compatibility with old systems.

I'm not talking about icons and assets, I'm talking about compiled NIBs, please 
read my initial message again. Changing to 10.13 as the deployment target 
changes nothing in my case, compiled NIBs are still considerably bigger than 
those compiled with Xcode 8 (and its embedded ibtool and 10.12 SDK).

-- Dragan
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Re: Icon radio buttons

[Alex Zavatone]

> On Jan 24, 2018, at 2:25 PM, Casey McDermott  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for all the helpful replies.
> 
> Was this list on hiatus for a month?  We sent the question Dec 22 and it
> was just posted yesterday.

I know that I was excessively useless during that time, but I’m not involved 
with running the list.  

What I did notice was that there was pretty low traffic over that time period.  
Did anyone else experience delays in their messages getting delivered?  

Cheers,
Alex Zavatone
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Re: Re: Icon radio buttons

[Casey McDermott]

Thanks for all the helpful replies.

Was this list on hiatus for a month?  We sent the question Dec 22 and it
was just posted yesterday.

Fortunately, it was not hard to "roll our own".  Probably would have needed
that anyhow because the buttons respond differently to double-click.

Thanks,

Casey McD
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Re: Size of compiled NIBs in Xcode 9 (10.13 SDK)

[Jeremy Hughes]

> On 24 Jan 2018, at 19:46, Dragan Milić  wrote:
> 
> BTW, in both cases (Xcode 9 - 10.13 SDK and Xcode 8 - 10.12 SDK) the 
> deployment target is macOS 10.11, so I don't think that setting matters.

Vince has explained why it does matter.

If you change the deployment target to 10.13 (which you probably don’t want to 
do) the application icons should no longer be duplicated. They’re currently 
being duplicated for backwards compatibility with old systems.

Jeremy

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Re: Size of compiled NIBs in Xcode 9 (10.13 SDK)

[Dragan Milić]

On Jan 24, 2018, at 20.03, Jeremy Hughes wrote:

> I posted a related question in https://apple-dev.groups.io/g/xcode/ 
> ("Assets.car is much larger for High Sierra builds”) but I didn’t get much in 
> the way of a reply.

Yeah, my problem is not exactly related. But thanks for the link, I didn't know 
about that group, I'll post the question there as well.

I mean, it's not really a big deal, but I'd like to know why it happens. I've 
got a small neat application I'm just about to release (one week from now) and 
when I decided to build it agains 10.13 SDK (anyway, I don't think it's SDK 
related, it probably has to do something with ibtool) in Xcode 9, it went from 
6.61 MB to 6.98 MB, just due to differences in NIBs files sizes. Still not a 
big deal, but 5.6% increase in size of a bundle due to NIBs?! BTW, in both 
cases (Xcode 9 - 10.13 SDK and Xcode 8 - 10.12 SDK) the deployment target is 
macOS 10.11, so I don't think that setting matters.

-- Dragan
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Re: Size of compiled NIBs in Xcode 9 (10.13 SDK)

[Vince DeMarco]

Looking at the info.

The size is larger because the application icons are now included in the 
Assets.car file.

When you target a newer version of OSX, the icons will NOT be stored as .icns 
files in the file package but instead they will be in the assets.car file

Vince


> On Jan 24, 2018, at 11:03 AM, Jeremy Hughes  
> wrote:
> 
> I posted a related question in https://apple-dev.groups.io/g/xcode/ 
> ("Assets.car is much larger for High Sierra builds”) but I didn’t get much in 
> the way of a reply.
> 
> It seems that Assets.car is much larger when it is built with the 10.13 SDK 
> than when it is built with the 10.12 SDK.
> 
> I don’t know why.
> 
> Jeremy
> 
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Re: Size of compiled NIBs in Xcode 9 (10.13 SDK)

[Gary L. Wade]

I would suggest addressing your concern at https://bugreport.apple.com/
--
Gary L. Wade
http://www.garywade.com/

On Jan 24, 2018, at 11:05 AM, Jeremy Hughes  wrote:

>> I posted a related question in https://apple-dev.groups.io/g/xcode/ 
>> ("Assets.car is much larger for High Sierra builds”) but I didn’t get much 
>> in the way of a reply.
> 
> https://apple-dev.groups.io/g/xcode/message/396
> 
>> It seems that Assets.car is much larger when it is built with the 10.13 SDK 
>> than when it is built with the 10.12 SDK.
>> 
>> I don’t know why.
>> 
>> Jeremy
>> 
> 

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Re: Size of compiled NIBs in Xcode 9 (10.13 SDK)

[Jeremy Hughes]

> I posted a related question in https://apple-dev.groups.io/g/xcode/ 
> ("Assets.car is much larger for High Sierra builds”) but I didn’t get much in 
> the way of a reply.

https://apple-dev.groups.io/g/xcode/message/396

> It seems that Assets.car is much larger when it is built with the 10.13 SDK 
> than when it is built with the 10.12 SDK.
> 
> I don’t know why.
> 
> Jeremy
> 

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Re: Size of compiled NIBs in Xcode 9 (10.13 SDK)

[Jeremy Hughes]

I posted a related question in https://apple-dev.groups.io/g/xcode/ 
("Assets.car is much larger for High Sierra builds”) but I didn’t get much in 
the way of a reply.

It seems that Assets.car is much larger when it is built with the 10.13 SDK 
than when it is built with the 10.12 SDK.

I don’t know why.

Jeremy

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Size of compiled NIBs in Xcode 9 (10.13 SDK)

[Dragan Milić]

My question is Xcode/ibtool related and not Cocoa, but since Xcode-users list 
is decommissioned quite some time ago, and related subtopic in Apple Dev Forum 
isn't very active, I hope you won't mind me asking here, since I couldn't fine 
explanation anywhere else.

I've finally upgraded to macOS 10.13 and Xcode 9 and ever since that happened, 
I've noticed the sizes of compiled NIBs being considerably bigger than what it 
was when compiling with Xcode 8 on macOS 10.12 (10.12 SDK). That difference can 
sometimes come close to 95% ! For example, I've got a (pretty packed) NIB, 
which compiles with Xcode 8 and 10.12 SDK into a compiled file of 51 KB. The 
same file compiles with Xcode 9 and 10.13 SDK into a compiled file of 95 KB!

What is the reason for this. I compiled projects in terminal and in the 
"CompileXIB" step I see ibtool called with pretty standard set of options, 
nothing fancy there. Currently I don't have any machine with macOS 10.12 and 
Xcode 8 installed to compare what were the options passed to ibtool there, but 
whatever they were, I wouldn't expect this kind of difference.

Can someone enlighten me here please?

Thanks,
-- Dragan
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Re: Icon radio buttons

[Steve Christensen]

You could manage the button state yourself without a lot of code.


@IBOutlet var button1: NSButton// tag = 0
...
@IBOutlet var buttonN: NSButton// tag = N - 1

private var selectedPaletteButtonIndex: Int = 0
private var paletteButtons: [NSButton]

override func viewDidLoad()
{
super.viewDidLoad()

paletteButtons =
[
button1,
...
buttonN
]

paletteButtons[selectedPaletteButtonIndex].state = .on
}

@IBAction func paletteChanged(_ button: NSButton)
{
let newSelectedPaletteButtonIndex = button.tag

if selectedPaletteButtonIndex != newSelectedPaletteButtonIndex
{
paletteButtons[selectedPaletteButtonIndex].state = .off
paletteButtons[newSelectedPaletteButtonIndex].state = .on

selectedPaletteButtonIndex = newSelectedPaletteButtonIndex
}
}


> On Dec 20, 2017, at 5:04 PM, Casey McDermott  wrote:
> 
> Is there a way to have a palette of icon buttons act like radio buttons, 
> without use of the deprecated NSMatrix?  The goal is something like the 
> drawing tool palette in the Sketch sample app (or ancient MacDraw).
> 
> In IB, it is not possible to add an image to a NSButton with style radio. It 
> automatically changes to a bevel button when the image is added. Likewise, 
> with style rectangle, the type can't be radio.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Casey McD

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