Re: Thoughts on Cocoa
> On Oct 2, 2019, at 10:14 AM, Turtle Creek Software via Cocoa-dev > wrote: > > For > anyone smaller, it's hard to justify the constant need to rewrite code just > to stay in the same place. Return on investment is just not there. Seems > like each new update is more difficult. The people I hear complaining about this are those who, like you, didn't move to Cocoa. Carbon was a _temporary_ transition API*. It was necessary when Mac OS X shipped in March 2001, but even though it wasn't yet formally deprecated, it was clear it would be. The Carbon UI frameworks were deprecated circa, um, 2006(?). QuickTime has been deprecated nearly as long. 64-bit systems shipped in the mid-2000s, even before the x86 transition, and it was obvious then that 32-bit would eventually go away. Eighteen years is _forever_ in the tech industry. At the time Cocoa was introduced, the Mac itself hadn't even been around that long! It sounds like keeping an app limping along on 30-year-old APIs, and then suddenly trying to move it forwards all at once, is a bad idea. By comparison, keeping a Cocoa app up to date isn't that big a deal. I was maintaining Cocoa apps during the 64-bit, x86 and ARC transitions and had to make very few code changes. I've been out of the UI world for about 8 years, and there have definitely been significant changes in areas like view layout and document handling, but adapting to those isn't rocket science. Yes, Microsoft is rather fanatical about compatibility. But that's part of what lost them their lead after the '90s: the amount of development resources needed to keep everything working exactly the same, and the difficulty of making forward progress without breaking any apps. —Jens * Yes it was. I was working at Apple and involved in the Carbon transition during 1999-2000. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Thoughts on Cocoa
If... ... the new platform-specific APIs are just that: platform-specific; ... there’s a way to integrate Swift code in Objective-C apps (and, I presume, Objective-C++ too); ... the most common complaint is about keeping code cross-platform; Then what is the problem with new, platform-specific APIs being Swift-only? Regards, Flavio Enviado do meu iPhone Em 2 de out de 2019, à(s) 19:07, Gerald Henriksen escreveu: > On Wed, 02 Oct 2019 15:19:43 -0400, you wrote: > >> Don’t worry, ObjC UI is not being deprecated. There are new APIs in >> Catalina that are Swift-only, but that does not and will not prevent you >> from continuing to write ObjC applications that simply don’t use those >> APIs. > > Apple may not (yet) be deprecating ObjC, but the fact that any new > stuff is Swift only inherently puts any developers/companies using > ObjC (either by choice, or by necessity if using a C++ codebase) at a > competitive disadvantage against any apps/companies that can go with > Swift. > ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Thoughts on Cocoa
> čet 03.10.2019., at 10.53, Matthew Kozak via Cocoa-dev wrote: > > Well, actually: > http://www.eat-more-burgers.com/blog/drugstore-burger > (couldn't resist). > > Maybe more like going to a drug's manufacturing plant to complain about your > PBM (pharmacy benefits manager), but yeah. Touché! -- Dragan ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Thoughts on Cocoa
Well, actually: http://www.eat-more-burgers.com/blog/drugstore-burger (couldn't resist). Maybe more like going to a drug's manufacturing plant to complain about your PBM (pharmacy benefits manager), but yeah. -Matt From: Cocoa-dev on behalf of Dragan Milić via Cocoa-dev Sent: Thursday, October 3, 2019 4:43 AM To: Cocoa-dev Subject: Re: Thoughts on Cocoa > čet 03.10.2019., at 00.49, John Randolph via Cocoa-dev wrote: > > Speaking as a former moderator of this list, this thread is off-topic for > Cocoa-dev. This list is for TECHNICAL discussion and help. > Kindly take it to reddit or wherever else the denizens of > comp.sys.mac.advocacy ended up. This whining crap seem to be appearing on the list every now and then, with mostly the same participants. While I may or may not agree with some or all of your points, This is not the place for that! Do you regularly go to the pharmacy and ask for double cheese burger in there? -- Dragan ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.apple.com%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fcocoa-dev%2Fmkozak%2540oit.rutgers.edudata=02%7C01%7Cmkozak%40oit.rutgers.edu%7Cc722025aac1443b003d108d747dddc86%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C0%7C637056890537780543sdata=Cp195jEtrxl4m6AvK3JikmgC%2BX9woBlb8AGAibohOdc%3Dreserved=0 This email sent to mko...@oit.rutgers.edu ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Thoughts on Cocoa
> čet 03.10.2019., at 00.49, John Randolph via Cocoa-dev wrote: > > Speaking as a former moderator of this list, this thread is off-topic for > Cocoa-dev. This list is for TECHNICAL discussion and help. > Kindly take it to reddit or wherever else the denizens of > comp.sys.mac.advocacy ended up. This whining crap seem to be appearing on the list every now and then, with mostly the same participants. While I may or may not agree with some or all of your points, This is not the place for that! Do you regularly go to the pharmacy and ask for double cheese burger in there? -- Dragan ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
