Re: Is the list alive?

[Demitri Muna via Cocoa-dev]

Hi,

I thought that this list disappeared over the New Year, but it turns out it was 
just a period of slow traffic. While the frequency of posts has diminished from 
its heyday, I still find this list very useful. I occasionally skim the subject 
headings in the digest, but the real value is in the archive. It’s not uncommon 
for me to search past posts for a method name and find, if not the answer I’m 
looking for, something that points me in the right direction. I very much 
dislike the UI for Apple’s developer forums, and it feels like the history of 
comments there is not as deep. The signal to noise ratio here is extremely 
high. (What I *really* miss is cocoabuilder.com…)

Here’s hoping this list sticks around for a while!

Cheers,
Demitri

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Re: Is the list alive?

[Carl Hoefs via Cocoa-dev]

> On May 29, 2019, at 6:02 AM, Steve Mills via Cocoa-dev 
>  wrote:
> 
> On May 28, 2019, at 19:46:26, Leo via Cocoa-dev  
> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hmm... my earlier message today never got through.
> 
> Supposedly, these lists are to be done away with at some point. Someone 
> started co...@apple-dev.groups.io, which many of us have moved to. Or use the 
> annoying and inferior dev forums.developer.apple.com.

Note sure if all the bugs are worked out yet... I signed up with 
apple-dev.groups.io  but my emails keep bouncing. 
I go to the web page and have to click a "stop bouncing my emails" button. Then 
it goes back to bouncing again...

-Carl

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Re: Is the list alive?

[Leo via Cocoa-dev]

On 5/29/19 9:02 AM, Steve Mills via Cocoa-dev wrote:

On May 28, 2019, at 19:46:26, Leo via Cocoa-dev  
wrote:


Hmm... my earlier message today never got through.

Supposedly, these lists are to be done away with at some point. Someone started 
co...@apple-dev.groups.io, which many of us have moved to. Or use the annoying 
and inferior dev forums.developer.apple.com.

--
Steve Mills
Drummer, Mac geek


Thanks for the info.

Now I see that my emails do get through - however, it takes HOURS for 
them to show up (like 5+ hours).


I wonder if it's normal - or should I adjust something on my end?


Leo
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Re: Is the list alive?

[Jens Alfke via Cocoa-dev]

> On May 29, 2019, at 7:22 AM, Richard Charles via Cocoa-dev 
>  wrote:
> 
> Internally at Apple I would bet that most developers get their questions 
> answered by asking another developer.

Back when I worked at Apple (1998-2007) there were internal mailing lists much 
like these — I learned a lot and shared a lot on macosx-dev-internal. But yes, 
I think lists.apple.com  is only still alive because 
nobody at Apple can locate the Power Mac G4 that runs it, to shut it down. ;-)

> I need to take a look at co...@apple-dev.groups.io 
> . It looks interesting.

I started that list, and several others. You can see all the lists at 
https://apple-dev.groups.io/g/main  . The 
xcode list there is pretty lively too.

It’s easy to create more, if someone has another topic they think deserves a 
list of its own.

—Jens
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Re: Is the list alive? (Leo)

[Casey McDermott via Cocoa-dev]

Thanks for the mention of  co...@apple-dev.groups.io
It looks promising, but this list is still uniquely useful.

Apple's documentation is mediocre.  Header files sometimes help,
but source code is not visible so it requires much guesswork.  
There are many "gotchas" lurking.

Stack Overflow has hits for any problem, but many answers are
old (and wrong).  It's even worse for Obj-C, since new answers are 
mostly Swift.  Not much sweet spot in between.

When other options fail, sometimes folks on this list have already been
there, and provide invaluable help.  Thanks to all of them!

Casey McDermott
Turtle Creek Software
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Re: Is the list alive?

[Richard Charles via Cocoa-dev]

> On May 29, 2019, at 7:02 AM, Steve Mills via Cocoa-dev 
>  wrote:
> 
> Supposedly, these lists are to be done away with at some point. Someone 
> started co...@apple-dev.groups.io, which many of us have moved to. Or use the 
> annoying and inferior dev forums.developer.apple.com.

It is a mystery why this list is still alive.

Internally at Apple I would bet that most developers get their questions 
answered by asking another developer. The current documentation is very 
artistic but not very functional or useful for serious development.

A lot of questions can be answered by looking in stackoverflow, perusing older 
documentation or searching the web.

You can always submit a technical support incident but you will most likely be 
asked to submit a focused sample project demonstrating the issue.

I need to take a look at co...@apple-dev.groups.io. It looks interesting.

--Richard Charles

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Re: Is the list alive?

[Steve Mills via Cocoa-dev]

On May 28, 2019, at 19:46:26, Leo via Cocoa-dev  
wrote:
> 
> 
> Hmm... my earlier message today never got through.

Supposedly, these lists are to be done away with at some point. Someone started 
co...@apple-dev.groups.io, which many of us have moved to. Or use the annoying 
and inferior dev forums.developer.apple.com.

--
Steve Mills
Drummer, Mac geek

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Is the list alive?

[Leo via Cocoa-dev]

Hmm... my earlier message today never got through.
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