Re: Idea for Improving Vibrancy
If you wanted to do this, I would grab the desktop image somehow, apply the effect to it once, and then use (a shifting portion of) that image as the background of your Source View, etc…. That way there is no need to mess with additional windows, or apply the expensive effect continually. There is the tricky bit (for both solutions) of determining when the desktop has changed (or you have changed screens). It is definitely possible, but requires care to get the edge cases right. FWIW, I agree with you on the effect. I may be in the minority on this list, but I like the colorfulness of the source lists, and I agree with charles that it seems like waste to spend all that processor power just to get the grey of the window behind it. It would be nice to have a desktop picture mode. That said, I am sure Apple at least considered it, and it is possible that it caused some sort of cognitive issue in testing (e.g. breaking object permanence) which sent things into uncanny valley territory. It is amazing what subtle things can have a strong effect. Filing a radar was the right call, IMHO. Thanks, Jon On Feb 15, 2015, at 6:13 AM, Charles Jenkins cejw...@gmail.com wrote: I have an idea for improving vibrancy, but right now it’s just a thought experiment. I don’t know how to accomplish it, so I wonder if you guys could provide any advice. I just posted this suggestion to Apple’s OS X feedback site: Please consider adding NSVisualEffectBlendingModeDesktop and making it the default for objects like the Source View which reside in an app's main or document window. A window with that visual effect mode would use the desktop image ONLY for vibrancy blending. Doing so would be kind to users: they have chosen the desktop image presumably because it and its colors are pleasing. Blending with other randomly intervening windows due to the current default of NSVisualEffectBlendingModeBehindWindow is unkind to users because (a) it ignores the user's clearly expressed preference for the desktop image (b) without conveying any useful information whatsoever.” Well, I’m not going to hold my breath. But it did occur to me that an app’s main/document window could accomplish something similar by creating its own secondary window that would somehow “stick” behind it. The secondary window’s only purpose would be to replicate the portion of the desktop image occluded by its bounds. That way, no matter what apps are running, it would show a portion of the desktop image, and though users would never actually see this secondary window, the main/document window would blend with it, giving the user pleasing vibrancy using the desktop image he has chosen. Is this possible, do you think, to open a window that always hides directly behind the working window? — Charles ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/jhull%40gbis.com This email sent to jh...@gbis.com ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Idea for Improving Vibrancy
Ugh. Mail used the wrong address again and bounced this... -- Seth Willits On Feb 15, 2015, at 9:54 PM, Seth Willits s...@freaksw.com wrote: On Feb 15, 2015, at 6:13 AM, Charles Jenkins cejw...@gmail.com wrote: Is this possible, do you think, to open a window that always hides directly behind the working window? Easily. Add a borderless child window ordered using NSWindowBelow. However, properly replicating the contents of the desktop within that window (especially given the desktop image can change — with animation —— and there's no way you can know when etc) makes it impractical. Then there's the performance and resource considerations. It is technically possible though. Beyond the technical side, there's the obligatory you shouldn't do this because of HIG and consistency statement to be made. (Hopefully this won't spiral into another ridiculous eww it's so uuugly thread...) -- Seth Willits ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Idea for Improving Vibrancy
On Feb 16, 2015, at 5:34 AM, Roland King r...@rols.org wrote: And for anyone, like me, who doesn't like the vibrancy effect, you can turn it off in preferences. Is this the right setting: “◽ Disable Windows® look and feel” -Carl ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Idea for Improving Vibrancy
I'm so happy I'm not the first guy to think kill it. Kill it. On Feb 16, 2015, at 7:17 AM, Greg Weston wrote: I have an idea for improving vibrancy Me too. Kill it. Ditto. I look at vibrancy as Apple showing Microsoft how to do Glass right without questioning whether it should be done at all. To me, consume extra resources in order to reduce the usability of the system is a fundamentally flawed pursuit. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/zav%40mac.com This email sent to z...@mac.com ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Idea for Improving Vibrancy
Hmm this thread is rapidly heading towards moderation - like the last one we had on vibrancy. To the original poster - nice that you made the suggestion/bug report to Apple, I don't think you're going to get far with that but who knows. I think the effort involved in rolling your own moving window which copies the screen background isn't going to be worthwhile, is going to be hard and probably rather flaky and anyone who even notices will probably just notice it works differently than everything else on the system and not like it. So I personally think you're a bit wasting your time if you try to fake that effect. Just my opinion. And for anyone, like me, who doesn't like the vibrancy effect, you can turn it off in preferences. I have (and my air battery lasts about 10% longer since I did as well). On 16 Feb 2015, at 20:21, Alex Zavatone z...@mac.com wrote: I'm so happy I'm not the first guy to think kill it. Kill it. On Feb 16, 2015, at 7:17 AM, Greg Weston wrote: I have an idea for improving vibrancy Me too. Kill it. Ditto. I look at vibrancy as Apple showing Microsoft how to do Glass right without questioning whether it should be done at all. To me, consume extra resources in order to reduce the usability of the system is a fundamentally flawed pursuit. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/zav%40mac.com This email sent to z...@mac.com ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/rols%40rols.org This email sent to r...@rols.org ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Idea for Improving Vibrancy
I have an idea for improving vibrancy Me too. Kill it. Ditto. I look at vibrancy as Apple showing Microsoft how to do Glass right without questioning whether it should be done at all. To me, consume extra resources in order to reduce the usability of the system is a fundamentally flawed pursuit. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Idea for Improving Vibrancy
I think the real technical limitation is performance. An extra window means more memory usage (for backing stores), more CPU and/or GPU processing (for compositing backing stores), and more power consumption (shorter battery life). You also have to be a bit careful about going your own way on this. Users who perceive a behavioral difference in your app may well be confused or irritated by it. Users who don’t perceive it may not get any value out of it. On Feb 15, 2015, at 06:13 , Charles Jenkins cejw...@gmail.com wrote: Is this possible, do you think, to open a window that always hides directly behind the working window? ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Idea for Improving Vibrancy
On 16 Feb 2015, at 1:13 am, Charles Jenkins cejw...@gmail.com wrote: I have an idea for improving vibrancy Me too. Kill it. --Graham ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
