Re: Java packages
Hunsberger, Peter wrote: Now, yes, I could create subdirs in cocoon/WEB-INF/classes or create separate jars for each in the libs, and have my apps each include their own. The other possibility is deploying Cocoon multiple times as different EARs, once for each application. That way if one application needs some features of a particular Cocoon release that breaks other things you're still fine. This seems like a good solution for the multiple developers / projects / releases situation. One project could use Cocoon 2.1, while another could have already stabilized with 1.8. You lose some caching and pooling opportunities across applications but the gain in scalability and modularity could well be worth it. Ryan Hoegg ISIS Networks - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Java packages
cocoon/WEB-INF/classes or cocoon/WEB-INF/libs (for jar files) -Andy Robert Bourdeau wrote: I think there was a thread on this, BUT it appears that the cocoon-users archive is not indexed, there is no web archive, and I can't keep all the Cocoon-user messages. So, apologies in advance if this question was recently asked. (I did check the FAQ, nothing there). Ok, I want to utilize application specific java classes in my XSPs that, using JSP, I would normally location within the appdir/WEB-INF directory. I'm quite familiar with the Tomcat 4 class loaders, but Cocoon is its own Tomcat servlet, so it would seem that I'm forced to utilize a WEB-INF directory within the cocoon dir? Suggestions or pointers? Using: Cocoon 2.0.1-dev Tomcat 4.0.1, Apache 1.3.24 with WARP JDK 1.3.1 Solaris 2.7 on a Sparc platform Thanks --- Bob - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Java packages
Robert Bourdeau wrote: I think there was a thread on this, BUT it appears that the cocoon-users archive is not indexed, there is no web archive, and I can't keep all the Cocoon-user messages. http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-users http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/SummarizeList?[EMAIL PROTECTED] HTH, /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Java packages
That's pretty unsatisfying. I just disentangled my Tomcat 3.x JSP apps from each other when upgrading to Tomcat 4, localizing their WEB-INF dirs to allow them to be evolved independently. Now, with Cocoon, I'm back to a single WEB-INF? Not a good solution. I found a message from Vadim in the archive (following the Nagoya link) that suggested the one other idea I had, to add a classpath parameter to web.xml. That'll probably work for now, but it introduces name collisions in classes across multiple applications. This all seems kinda unsatisfying, but perhaps there's no good solution with Cocoon XSP. I guess I want to think of Cocoon as the application server with all the flexibility in configuration, but it's an application IN the server and is restricted accordingly. It's not that these solutions won't work, but they feel awkward and seem a little like hacks. I work in a shop where we have multiple virtual hosts running on a single server configuration, and within each virtual host, multiple applications. Further, there are dev, alpha, beta, and prod configurations of everything, so I expect to be able to configure my software to allow for the independent upgrade of a Cocoon application from dev to prod without interferring with any of my other applications (except for changes in the common components, Cocoon, Tomcat, etc.) There's no best practices guide out there that I found yet for such configurations. If not, and if I ever find a nice way to integrate Cocoon into this setup, perhaps I'd write it up (if anyone else finds themselves supporting such an environment). But I'm still unsatisfied. --- Bob cocoon/WEB-INF/classes or cocoon/WEB-INF/libs (for jar files) -Andy Robert Bourdeau wrote: I think there was a thread on this, BUT it appears that the cocoon-users archive is not indexed, there is no web archive, and I can't keep all the Cocoon-user messages. So, apologies in advance if this question was recently asked. (I did check the FAQ, nothing there). Ok, I want to utilize application specific java classes in my XSPs that, using JSP, I would normally location within the appdir/WEB-INF directory. I'm quite familiar with the Tomcat 4 class loaders, but Cocoon is its own Tomcat servlet, so it would seem that I'm forced to utilize a WEB-INF directory within the cocoon dir? Suggestions or pointers? Using: Cocoon 2.0.1-dev Tomcat 4.0.1, Apache 1.3.24 with WARP JDK 1.3.1 Solaris 2.7 on a Sparc platform Thanks --- Bob - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Java packages
From: Robert Bourdeau [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] That's pretty unsatisfying. I just disentangled my Tomcat 3.x JSP apps from each other when upgrading to Tomcat 4, localizing their WEB-INF dirs to allow them to be evolved independently. Now, with Cocoon, I'm back to a single WEB-INF? Not a good solution. I found a message from Vadim in the archive (following the Nagoya link) that suggested the one other idea I had, to add a classpath parameter to web.xml. With recent Cocoon versions, this will work only with ParanoidCocoonServlet (IIRC), and intended to be used with servlet engines which do not play nice. That'll probably work for now, but it introduces name collisions in classes across multiple applications. This all seems kinda unsatisfying, but perhaps there's no good solution with Cocoon XSP. I guess I want to think of Cocoon as the application server with all the flexibility in configuration, but it's an application IN the server and is restricted accordingly. Exaclty. There is nothing wrong with how Cocoon works. It just follows servlet specification. It's not that these solutions won't work, but they feel awkward and seem a little like hacks. I work in a shop where we have multiple virtual hosts running on a single server configuration, and within each virtual host, multiple applications. Further, there are dev, alpha, beta, and prod configurations of everything, so I expect to be able to configure my software to allow for the independent upgrade of a Cocoon application from dev to prod without interferring with any of my other applications (except for changes in the common components, Cocoon, Tomcat, etc.) Every application has WEB-INF directory, thus, it has all the libraries it needs and it does not interfere with other applications. When you upgrade one of the applications, you just replace application directory with the version of the new one, replacing all the libraries old application has with new versions. This does not affect any other application deployed in the system. So, what's the issue? Vadim There's no best practices guide out there that I found yet for such configurations. If not, and if I ever find a nice way to integrate Cocoon into this setup, perhaps I'd write it up (if anyone else finds themselves supporting such an environment). But I'm still unsatisfied. --- Bob cocoon/WEB-INF/classes or cocoon/WEB-INF/libs (for jar files) -Andy Robert Bourdeau wrote: I think there was a thread on this, BUT it appears that the cocoon-users archive is not indexed, there is no web archive, and I can't keep all the Cocoon-user messages. So, apologies in advance if this question was recently asked. (I did check the FAQ, nothing there). Ok, I want to utilize application specific java classes in my XSPs that, using JSP, I would normally location within the appdir/WEB-INF directory. I'm quite familiar with the Tomcat 4 class loaders, but Cocoon is its own Tomcat servlet, so it would seem that I'm forced to utilize a WEB-INF directory within the cocoon dir? Suggestions or pointers? Using: Cocoon 2.0.1-dev Tomcat 4.0.1, Apache 1.3.24 with WARP JDK 1.3.1 Solaris 2.7 on a Sparc platform Thanks --- Bob - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Java packages
It's not that these solutions won't work, but they feel awkward and seem a little like hacks. I work in a shop where we have multiple virtual hosts running on a single server configuration, and within each virtual host, multiple applications. Further, there are dev, alpha, beta, and prod configurations of everything, so I expect to be able to configure my software to allow for the independent upgrade of a Cocoon application from dev to prod without interferring with any of my other applications (except for changes in the common components, Cocoon, Tomcat, etc.) Every application has WEB-INF directory, thus, it has all the libraries it needs and it does not interfere with other applications. When you upgrade one of the applications, you just replace application directory with the version of the new one, replacing all the libraries old application has with new versions. This does not affect any other application deployed in the system. So, what's the issue? Vadim You're calling Cocoon the application. For me, the application is my Environmental Treaty Information Service, and my Work Flow Management System, and my Guide to Global Population Projections, and my Collaborative Document Authoring Environment. These applications could all be XML applications supported by Cocoon, but in Cocoon they do not get their own WEB-INF directory. In JSP, they do. Now, yes, I could create subdirs in cocoon/WEB-INF/classes or create separate jars for each in the libs, and have my apps each include their own. I'm still mulling this over, and maybe this is all fine. Still mulling this over. In gneral, I'm wanting something as transparent as a an Apache module, or add on Tomcat core classes. Something more transparent than Cocoon current seems. Don't get me wrong. I think Cocoon is great. It's really fantastic. It's a steep learning curve, but I think it's worth the climb. This is a hunt for the right way to configure an environment for multiple developers, multiple projects, multiple computers, and a staged releases. Thanks for your comments! --- Bob - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Java packages
Now, yes, I could create subdirs in cocoon/WEB-INF/classes or create separate jars for each in the libs, and have my apps each include their own. The other possibility is deploying Cocoon multiple times as different EARs, once for each application. That way if one application needs some features of a particular Cocoon release that breaks other things you're still fine. - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Java packages
You still can keep your concept of Application. I look at Cocoon as a framework, within which my applications run. I make each application a subdirectory off the main directory, and each has its own sitemap. The benefit is that I have a clean sitemap, (i.e. very few map:component definitions except those that are specific to the application, like actions) and then I have a certain degree of portability. I have development and deployment copies of my website, which is comprised of 4 such applications. When I want to roll a new version of an application, I jar up the appropriate directory, copy it to the production machine and unjar. All automated, too. A traditional Servlet Spec-based application is a different paradigm from a Cocoon-based application which, obviously can only run inside Cocoon. In a way, you are comparing apples and oranges. A Cocoon-based application does have certain ties to the framework: the application sitemap must be referenced in the main sitemap and it shares WEB-INF/libs and the settings in web.xml/cocoon.xconf. Unless, of course, you write your own class-loader that picks up jars from your application directory structure. Regards, Lajos galatea.com Cocoon training, consulting support Robert Bourdeau wrote: It's not that these solutions won't work, but they feel awkward and seem a little like hacks. I work in a shop where we have multiple virtual hosts running on a single server configuration, and within each virtual host, multiple applications. Further, there are dev, alpha, beta, and prod configurations of everything, so I expect to be able to configure my software to allow for the independent upgrade of a Cocoon application from dev to prod without interferring with any of my other applications (except for changes in the common components, Cocoon, Tomcat, etc.) Every application has WEB-INF directory, thus, it has all the libraries it needs and it does not interfere with other applications. When you upgrade one of the applications, you just replace application directory with the version of the new one, replacing all the libraries old application has with new versions. This does not affect any other application deployed in the system. So, what's the issue? Vadim You're calling Cocoon the application. For me, the application is my Environmental Treaty Information Service, and my Work Flow Management System, and my Guide to Global Population Projections, and my Collaborative Document Authoring Environment. These applications could all be XML applications supported by Cocoon, but in Cocoon they do not get their own WEB-INF directory. In JSP, they do. Now, yes, I could create subdirs in cocoon/WEB-INF/classes or create separate jars for each in the libs, and have my apps each include their own. I'm still mulling this over, and maybe this is all fine. Still mulling this over. In gneral, I'm wanting something as transparent as a an Apache module, or add on Tomcat core classes. Something more transparent than Cocoon current seems. Don't get me wrong. I think Cocoon is great. It's really fantastic. It's a steep learning curve, but I think it's worth the climb. This is a hunt for the right way to configure an environment for multiple developers, multiple projects, multiple computers, and a staged releases. Thanks for your comments! --- Bob - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Java packages
From: Robert Bourdeau [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] It's not that these solutions won't work, but they feel awkward and seem a little like hacks. I work in a shop where we have multiple virtual hosts running on a single server configuration, and within each virtual host, multiple applications. Further, there are dev, alpha, beta, and prod configurations of everything, so I expect to be able to configure my software to allow for the independent upgrade of a Cocoon application from dev to prod without interferring with any of my other applications (except for changes in the common components, Cocoon, Tomcat, etc.) Every application has WEB-INF directory, thus, it has all the libraries it needs and it does not interfere with other applications. When you upgrade one of the applications, you just replace application directory with the version of the new one, replacing all the libraries old application has with new versions. This does not affect any other application deployed in the system. So, what's the issue? Vadim You're calling Cocoon the application. I see your point, but you can either go with approach: For me, the Cocoon-based application is my Environmental Treaty Information Service, and my Work Flow Management System, and my Guide to Global Population Projections, and my Collaborative Document Authoring Environment. These applications could all be XML applications supported by Cocoon, by Servlet engine (e.g. Tomcat) but in Cocoon they do not get their own WEB-INF directory. In Tomcat they do get. In JSP, they do. Now, yes, I could create subdirs in cocoon/WEB-INF/classes or create separate jars for each in the libs, and have my apps each include their own. I'm still mulling this over, and maybe this is all fine. Still mulling this over. In gneral, I'm wanting something as transparent as a an Apache module, or add on Tomcat core classes. Something more transparent than Cocoon current seems. That's was first way, and I guess you know it but don't like it. Other way is described in Lajos Moczar's letter: have separate classloaders. BTW, looks to me that your issue will be addressed by Cocoon blocks. Search for cocoon blocks discussion on cocoon-dev list. Don't get me wrong. I think Cocoon is great. It's really fantastic. It's a steep learning curve, but I think it's worth the climb. :) This is a hunt for the right way to configure an environment for multiple developers, multiple projects, multiple computers, and a staged releases. Good luck, Vadim Thanks for your comments! --- Bob - Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
