Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars
To be fair, I think this information isn't likely to be *that* inaccurate. Most people don't count 'the User-Agent header of your HTTP requests' alongside their age or income. MJ Ray m...@phonecoop.coop writes: Genny Engel wrote: Interesting, Safari has just pulled into the lead over here. You can't know that. With so many browser and proxies mangling the User-Agent for various reasons (User-Agent Switcher to get a nicer mobile-style experience on a small screen, or randomUserAgent to stop the evil empire tracking you through browser fingerprinting, to give two examples), reading the User-Agent header from your logfiles is a suggestion or hint of what's reading your site, not a definitive result. What's in the logs is basically reader-submitted. You don't believe people to all tell the truth when they tell you their age or income, so please don't believe them about their browsers! I predict we will see much more volatility in these results as more people install the obvious plugins to get a nicer and safer browsing experience. Regards,
Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars
In an interesting (to me) related note, jquery is dropping support for IE 6, 7, and 8 in next year's release of jquery 2.0. 1.9 wil continue that support for some time to come, but the writing is on the wall. http://blog.jquery.com/2012/06/28/jquery-core-version-1-9-and-beyond/
[CODE4LIB] GA vs User-Agent RE: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars
I actually have no idea what Google Analytics looks at to decide the user agent. Certainly not my server logs ;) It might throw away the declared User-Agent entirely and rely on its own flavor of browser-sniffing, on the theory, why bother with the User-Agent at all if you're going to run your own tests for all the other attributes: https://developers.google.com/analytics/devguides/reporting/core/dimsmets/system -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Robert Berry Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 7:37 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars To be fair, I think this information isn't likely to be *that* inaccurate. Most people don't count 'the User-Agent header of your HTTP requests' alongside their age or income. MJ Ray m...@phonecoop.coop writes: Genny Engel wrote: Interesting, Safari has just pulled into the lead over here. You can't know that. With so many browser and proxies mangling the User-Agent for various reasons (User-Agent Switcher to get a nicer mobile-style experience on a small screen, or randomUserAgent to stop the evil empire tracking you through browser fingerprinting, to give two examples), reading the User-Agent header from your logfiles is a suggestion or hint of what's reading your site, not a definitive result. What's in the logs is basically reader-submitted. You don't believe people to all tell the truth when they tell you their age or income, so please don't believe them about their browsers! I predict we will see much more volatility in these results as more people install the obvious plugins to get a nicer and safer browsing experience. Regards,
[CODE4LIB] Browser Wars
Hi Code4Lib, Ever since Microsoft announced the new IE auto-update policy, the blogosphere is fussing. This is definitely important (and good) news, but sites-Smashing Magazine has three articles on it in the last few days-are really pushing the drop IE support, and its literally slowing the internet down. I'm down, but that attitude-especially for libraries-isn't really the right one to have. It is, IMHO, an old view. A smart design strategy with progressive enhancement can deliver content to . everyone - which should be the priority for non-prof / [local-]government web presences over flare. Right? Anyway, all of this is coming from some really good web developers who don't really face the same issues that have to be considered for library sites. I was just curious what the library community actually thought about this. Thanks, Michael Here's some reading: Old Browsers ar eHOlding Back the Web (July 9th): http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012/07/09/old-browsers-are-holding-back-the -web/ Dear Web User: Please Upgrade Your Browser (July 10th) : http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012/07/10/dear-web-user-please-upgrade-your -browser/ It's Time to Stop Blaming Internet Explorer (July 12th): http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012/07/12/its-time-to-stop-blaming-internet -explorer/ A recent library blog today: Have you Given Much thought to browsers? : http://www.meanlaura.com/archives/1528
Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars
My id agrees with the calls to let IE die a horrible death, but I agree with your point: from a service perspective, we cannot just drop support for IE. Libraries will hopefully uphold a higher standard of accessibility than some other places on the web. In my heart of hearts, I assume that anyone using BlackBerry or IE is doing so because they want to have a sub-optimal experience on the web, but I can't quite bring myself to design that way. Instead, with nearly everything I design, I have to do some IE-workarounds to make it not suck on a browser that can't be bothered to join the 21st century. *sigh* Ken -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael Schofield Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 10:33 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars Hi Code4Lib, Ever since Microsoft announced the new IE auto-update policy, the blogosphere is fussing. This is definitely important (and good) news, but sites-Smashing Magazine has three articles on it in the last few days-are really pushing the drop IE support, and its literally slowing the internet down. I'm down, but that attitude-especially for libraries-isn't really the right one to have. It is, IMHO, an old view. A smart design strategy with progressive enhancement can deliver content to . everyone - which should be the priority for non-prof / [local-]government web presences over flare. Right? Anyway, all of this is coming from some really good web developers who don't really face the same issues that have to be considered for library sites. I was just curious what the library community actually thought about this. Thanks, Michael Here's some reading: Old Browsers ar eHOlding Back the Web (July 9th): http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012/07/09/old-browsers-are-holding-back-the -web/ Dear Web User: Please Upgrade Your Browser (July 10th) : http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012/07/10/dear-web-user-please-upgrade-your -browser/ It's Time to Stop Blaming Internet Explorer (July 12th): http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012/07/12/its-time-to-stop-blaming-internet -explorer/ A recent library blog today: Have you Given Much thought to browsers? : http://www.meanlaura.com/archives/1528
Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars
I go by my statistics (and you should, too). I can't make users use another browser (as much as I'd like them to). The bulk of our users still use IE (well, the bulk use a WebKit browser--Chrome/Safari--but lumping those together isn't an assumption I'm ready to lean on yet). That IE majority is shrinking, though. I'm in the middle of launching a new site redesign (old: http://www.library.jhu.edu new: http://testsh.mse.jhu.edu/newwebsite), so this is very present in my mind at the moment. My cutoff is IE8. Everything IE8 and above is fine and will work fine with the new site. And honestly, since I'm not doing anything that fancy with the new site (it's pretty stripped down on purpose), that IE8 limitation is really based on CORS support. IE7 don't got it. People will upgrade when they upgrade. Libraries aren't really in the position to force users to change their browsing habits. -Sean On 7/12/12 10:33 AM, Michael Schofield mschofi...@nova.edu wrote: Hi Code4Lib, Ever since Microsoft announced the new IE auto-update policy, the blogosphere is fussing. This is definitely important (and good) news, but sites-Smashing Magazine has three articles on it in the last few days-are really pushing the drop IE support, and its literally slowing the internet down. I'm down, but that attitude-especially for libraries-isn't really the right one to have. It is, IMHO, an old view. A smart design strategy with progressive enhancement can deliver content to . everyone - which should be the priority for non-prof / [local-]government web presences over flare. Right? Anyway, all of this is coming from some really good web developers who don't really face the same issues that have to be considered for library sites. I was just curious what the library community actually thought about this. Thanks, Michael Here's some reading: Old Browsers ar eHOlding Back the Web (July 9th): http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012/07/09/old-browsers-are-holding-back-the -web/ Dear Web User: Please Upgrade Your Browser (July 10th) : http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012/07/10/dear-web-user-please-upgrade-your -browser/ It's Time to Stop Blaming Internet Explorer (July 12th): http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012/07/12/its-time-to-stop-blaming-internet -explorer/ A recent library blog today: Have you Given Much thought to browsers? : http://www.meanlaura.com/archives/1528
Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars
Sean beat me to it, but just sharing the same opinion. I think that people need to do extensive statistics gathering of their own user base. Trends show that IE is on the decline. One study I read recently showed that IE accounted for less than 1/3 of the total browser usage worldwide. And that mobile usage will soon surpass desktop usage for web access. Statistics like this are interesting, but are misleading. It could still be the case that 95% of your users access your site on IE6. So, general statisics about overall web trends, while important to be aware of, don't tell the story of your users. My strategy has been to figure out how my users access my site, then design around those numbers. From a business value perspective, if less than 1% of my users are using IE 6, I might decide to drop support for IE. Or, better still, offer limited support. Have a good fallback strategy for users who may have css disabled, javascript disabled, be using a screenreader, or be on IE 6, 7, 8, 9, whatever. Design for your user base not for how you wish things were. :) Culley On 07/12/12, Sean Hannan wrote: I go by my statistics (and you should, too). I can't make users use another browser (as much as I'd like them to). The bulk of our users still use IE (well, the bulk use a WebKit browser--Chrome/Safari--but lumping those together isn't an assumption I'm ready to lean on yet). That IE majority is shrinking, though. I'm in the middle of launching a new site redesign (old: http://www.library.jhu.edu new: http://testsh.mse.jhu.edu/newwebsite), so this is very present in my mind at the moment. My cutoff is IE8. Everything IE8 and above is fine and will work fine with the new site. And honestly, since I'm not doing anything that fancy with the new site (it's pretty stripped down on purpose), that IE8 limitation is really based on CORS support. IE7 don't got it. People will upgrade when they upgrade. Libraries aren't really in the position to force users to change their browsing habits. -Sean On 7/12/12 10:33 AM, Michael Schofield mschofi...@nova.edu wrote: Hi Code4Lib, Ever since Microsoft announced the new IE auto-update policy, the blogosphere is fussing. This is definitely important (and good) news, but sites-Smashing Magazine has three articles on it in the last few days-are really pushing the drop IE support, and its literally slowing the internet down. I'm down, but that attitude-especially for libraries-isn't really the right one to have. It is, IMHO, an old view. A smart design strategy with progressive enhancement can deliver content to . everyone - which should be the priority for non-prof / [local-]government web presences over flare. Right? Anyway, all of this is coming from some really good web developers who don't really face the same issues that have to be considered for library sites. I was just curious what the library community actually thought about this. Thanks, Michael Here's some reading: Old Browsers ar eHOlding Back the Web (July 9th): http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012/07/09/old-browsers-are-holding-back-the -web/ Dear Web User: Please Upgrade Your Browser (July 10th) : http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012/07/10/dear-web-user-please-upgrade-your -browser/ It's Time to Stop Blaming Internet Explorer (July 12th): http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012/07/12/its-time-to-stop-blaming-internet -explorer/ A recent library blog today: Have you Given Much thought to browsers? : http://www.meanlaura.com/archives/1528
Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars
Hi... This is from the last six weeks from one of my public-facing websites. Definitely not going to drop MSIE support for the website at this rate: # #reqs #pages browser 1 18137 827 MSIE 8651437 MSIE/8 7400277 MSIE/9 186652MSIE/7 193 42MSIE/6 16 16MSIE/5 11 3 MSIE/10 2 1809441 Safari 1128299 Safari/533 202 58Safari/534 214 54Safari/7534 79 23Safari/6533 41 4 Safari/530 13 3 Safari/531 3 906 260 Netscape (compatible) 4 1287182 Firefox 442 114 Firefox/13 408 34Firefox/12 139 11Firefox/10 163 6 Firefox/3 28 6 Firefox/14 11 5 Firefox/9 6 2 Firefox/4 12 2 Firefox/6 4 1 Firefox/15 8 1 Firefox/7 5 1164175 Chrome 718 111 Chrome/19 409 61Chrome/20 23 1 Chrome/9 4 1 Chrome/10 1 1 Chrome/5 ...brig On 7/12/2012 9:33 AM, Michael Schofield wrote: Ever since Microsoft announced the new IE auto-update policy, the blogosphere is fussing. This is definitely important (and good) news, but sites-Smashing Magazine has three articles on it in the last few days-are really pushing the drop IE support, and its literally slowing the internet down. I'm down, but that attitude-especially for libraries-isn't really the right one to have. It is, IMHO, an old view. A smart design strategy with progressive enhancement can deliver content to . everyone - which should be the priority for non-prof / [local-]government web presences over flare. Right?-- Brig C. McCoy bmc...@kckpl.org Network Services Coordinator Kansas City, Kansas Public Library 625 Minnesota Avenue Kansas City, KS 66101 tel 913-279-2349 cel 816-885-2700 fax 913-279-2271
Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars
... IE 5?!?!?! On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 11:28 AM, Brig C McCoy bmc...@kckpl.org wrote: Hi... This is from the last six weeks from one of my public-facing websites. Definitely not going to drop MSIE support for the website at this rate: # #reqs #pages browser 1 18137 827 MSIE 8651437 MSIE/8 7400277 MSIE/9 186652MSIE/7 193 42MSIE/6 16 16MSIE/5 11 3 MSIE/10 2 1809441 Safari 1128299 Safari/533 202 58Safari/534 214 54Safari/7534 79 23Safari/6533 41 4 Safari/530 13 3 Safari/531 3 906 260 Netscape (compatible) 4 1287182 Firefox 442 114 Firefox/13 408 34Firefox/12 139 11Firefox/10 163 6 Firefox/3 28 6 Firefox/14 11 5 Firefox/9 6 2 Firefox/4 12 2 Firefox/6 4 1 Firefox/15 8 1 Firefox/7 5 1164175 Chrome 718 111 Chrome/19 409 61Chrome/20 23 1 Chrome/9 4 1 Chrome/10 1 1 Chrome/5 ...brig On 7/12/2012 9:33 AM, Michael Schofield wrote: Ever since Microsoft announced the new IE auto-update policy, the blogosphere is fussing. This is definitely important (and good) news, but sites-Smashing Magazine has three articles on it in the last few days-are really pushing the drop IE support, and its literally slowing the internet down. I'm down, but that attitude-especially for libraries-isn't really the right one to have. It is, IMHO, an old view. A smart design strategy with progressive enhancement can deliver content to . everyone - which should be the priority for non-prof / [local-]government web presences over flare. Right?-- Brig C. McCoy bmc...@kckpl.org Network Services Coordinator Kansas City, Kansas Public Library 625 Minnesota Avenue Kansas City, KS 66101 tel 913-279-2349 cel 816-885-2700 fax 913-279-2271
Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars
While we will support anything that our clients want supported, we warn them away from IE6 and other expensive to support antiquities. We definitely pay attention to IE during development, as backtracking to fix an issue that has been buried can be both depressing and expensive. We test in Chrome, Firefox, IE, Opera, and Safari. We test Responsive and/or mobile sites in a range of mobile clients. Thanks, Cary On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:40 AM, Aaron Collier acoll...@csufresno.edu wrote: Firefox is the leader on our stats, but I think that's mostly because it is the default browser on almost any campus system. IE is close behind though while mobile browsers are the most sparse. I guess the old develop in firefox, test in IE still holds true. Aaron Collier Library Academic Systems Analyst California State University, Fresno - Henry Madden Library 559.278.2945 acoll...@csufresno.edu http://www.csufresno.edu/library - Original Message - From: Brig C McCoy bmc...@kckpl.org To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:28:03 AM Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars Hi... This is from the last six weeks from one of my public-facing websites. Definitely not going to drop MSIE support for the website at this rate: # #reqs #pages browser 1 18137 827 MSIE 8651 437 MSIE/8 7400 277 MSIE/9 1866 52 MSIE/7 193 42 MSIE/6 16 16 MSIE/5 11 3 MSIE/10 2 1809 441 Safari 1128 299 Safari/533 202 58 Safari/534 214 54 Safari/7534 79 23 Safari/6533 41 4 Safari/530 13 3 Safari/531 3 906 260 Netscape (compatible) 4 1287 182 Firefox 442 114 Firefox/13 408 34 Firefox/12 139 11 Firefox/10 163 6 Firefox/3 28 6 Firefox/14 11 5 Firefox/9 6 2 Firefox/4 12 2 Firefox/6 4 1 Firefox/15 8 1 Firefox/7 5 1164 175 Chrome 718 111 Chrome/19 409 61 Chrome/20 23 1 Chrome/9 4 1 Chrome/10 1 1 Chrome/5 ...brig On 7/12/2012 9:33 AM, Michael Schofield wrote: Ever since Microsoft announced the new IE auto-update policy, the blogosphere is fussing. This is definitely important (and good) news, but sites-Smashing Magazine has three articles on it in the last few days-are really pushing the drop IE support, and its literally slowing the internet down. I'm down, but that attitude-especially for libraries-isn't really the right one to have. It is, IMHO, an old view. A smart design strategy with progressive enhancement can deliver content to . everyone - which should be the priority for non-prof / [local-]government web presences over flare. Right?-- Brig C. McCoy bmc...@kckpl.org Network Services Coordinator Kansas City, Kansas Public Library 625 Minnesota Avenue Kansas City, KS 66101 tel 913-279-2349 cel 816-885-2700 fax 913-279-2271 -- Cary Gordon The Cherry Hill Company http://chillco.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars
Does anyone actually generate a conditional message--say, if LTE IE7--to suggest that visitors upgrade or otherwise warn them about a wonky site? //Michael -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Cary Gordon Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 2:11 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars While we will support anything that our clients want supported, we warn them away from IE6 and other expensive to support antiquities. We definitely pay attention to IE during development, as backtracking to fix an issue that has been buried can be both depressing and expensive. We test in Chrome, Firefox, IE, Opera, and Safari. We test Responsive and/or mobile sites in a range of mobile clients. Thanks, Cary On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:40 AM, Aaron Collier acoll...@csufresno.edu wrote: Firefox is the leader on our stats, but I think that's mostly because it is the default browser on almost any campus system. IE is close behind though while mobile browsers are the most sparse. I guess the old develop in firefox, test in IE still holds true. Aaron Collier Library Academic Systems Analyst California State University, Fresno - Henry Madden Library 559.278.2945 acoll...@csufresno.edu http://www.csufresno.edu/library - Original Message - From: Brig C McCoy bmc...@kckpl.org To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:28:03 AM Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars Hi... This is from the last six weeks from one of my public-facing websites. Definitely not going to drop MSIE support for the website at this rate: # #reqs #pages browser 1 18137 827 MSIE 8651 437 MSIE/8 7400 277 MSIE/9 1866 52 MSIE/7 193 42 MSIE/6 16 16 MSIE/5 11 3 MSIE/10 2 1809 441 Safari 1128 299 Safari/533 202 58 Safari/534 214 54 Safari/7534 79 23 Safari/6533 41 4 Safari/530 13 3 Safari/531 3 906 260 Netscape (compatible) 4 1287 182 Firefox 442 114 Firefox/13 408 34 Firefox/12 139 11 Firefox/10 163 6 Firefox/3 28 6 Firefox/14 11 5 Firefox/9 6 2 Firefox/4 12 2 Firefox/6 4 1 Firefox/15 8 1 Firefox/7 5 1164 175 Chrome 718 111 Chrome/19 409 61 Chrome/20 23 1 Chrome/9 4 1 Chrome/10 1 1 Chrome/5 ...brig On 7/12/2012 9:33 AM, Michael Schofield wrote: Ever since Microsoft announced the new IE auto-update policy, the blogosphere is fussing. This is definitely important (and good) news, but sites-Smashing Magazine has three articles on it in the last few days-are really pushing the drop IE support, and its literally slowing the internet down. I'm down, but that attitude-especially for libraries-isn't really the right one to have. It is, IMHO, an old view. A smart design strategy with progressive enhancement can deliver content to . everyone - which should be the priority for non-prof / [local-]government web presences over flare. Right?-- Brig C. McCoy bmc...@kckpl.org Network Services Coordinator Kansas City, Kansas Public Library 625 Minnesota Avenue Kansas City, KS 66101 tel 913-279-2349 cel 816-885-2700 fax 913-279-2271 -- Cary Gordon The Cherry Hill Company http://chillco.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars
Sean, where are you using CORS support? I browsed around your site in IE7 and it doesn't seem to balk or have any missing functionality. Cary, I think users can be even more frustrated when a site is broken and they don't know how to fix it (or even realize it's broken). I would at least give them a heads up and a nudge to improve their own experience (and not just on our sites), while not blocking them from browsing a site with less functionality. I do tend to warn users gently they may have a sub-optimal experience if they are using an antiquated browser. Those Flash messages on the iPad are poorly implemented. If they are sniffing for flash, they should be sniffing for the user agent too... that is if there's a non-flash alternative. But really, those developers are going to be extinct soon. I don't have an iPad. How often does that actually occur? -Shaun On 7/12/12 11:04 AM, Sean Hannan wrote: I go by my statistics (and you should, too). I can't make users use another browser (as much as I'd like them to). The bulk of our users still use IE (well, the bulk use a WebKit browser--Chrome/Safari--but lumping those together isn't an assumption I'm ready to lean on yet). That IE majority is shrinking, though. I'm in the middle of launching a new site redesign (old: http://www.library.jhu.edu new: http://testsh.mse.jhu.edu/newwebsite), so this is very present in my mind at the moment. My cutoff is IE8. Everything IE8 and above is fine and will work fine with the new site. And honestly, since I'm not doing anything that fancy with the new site (it's pretty stripped down on purpose), that IE8 limitation is really based on CORS support. IE7 don't got it. People will upgrade when they upgrade. Libraries aren't really in the position to force users to change their browsing habits. -Sean On 7/12/12 10:33 AM, Michael Schofieldmschofi...@nova.edu wrote: Hi Code4Lib, Ever since Microsoft announced the new IE auto-update policy, the blogosphere is fussing. This is definitely important (and good) news, but sites-Smashing Magazine has three articles on it in the last few days-are really pushing the drop IE support, and its literally slowing the internet down. I'm down, but that attitude-especially for libraries-isn't really the right one to have. It is, IMHO, an old view. A smart design strategy with progressive enhancement can deliver content to . everyone - which should be the priority for non-prof / [local-]government web presences over flare. Right? Anyway, all of this is coming from some really good web developers who don't really face the same issues that have to be considered for library sites. I was just curious what the library community actually thought about this. Thanks, Michael Here's some reading: Old Browsers ar eHOlding Back the Web (July 9th): http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012/07/09/old-browsers-are-holding-back-the -web/ Dear Web User: Please Upgrade Your Browser (July 10th) : http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012/07/10/dear-web-user-please-upgrade-your -browser/ It's Time to Stop Blaming Internet Explorer (July 12th): http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012/07/12/its-time-to-stop-blaming-internet -explorer/ A recent library blog today: Have you Given Much thought to browsers? : http://www.meanlaura.com/archives/1528 -- Shaun D. Ellis Digital Library Interface Developer Firestone Library, Princeton University voice: 609.258.1698 | sha...@princeton.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars
It is almost worth getting an iPad just to see all the clueless messages. Borrow one and try some restaurant sites. The restaurant business seems to have the absolute worst relationship between what they spend and the usefulness of what they get. I understand and respect your view, but still contend that regardless of the reason that someone is using IE 6, they have certainly had enough time to figure it out by now. The only way that IE6 users will have a good experience is if you build a site for them. Cary On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 12:11 PM, Shaun Ellis sha...@princeton.edu wrote: Sean, where are you using CORS support? I browsed around your site in IE7 and it doesn't seem to balk or have any missing functionality. Cary, I think users can be even more frustrated when a site is broken and they don't know how to fix it (or even realize it's broken). I would at least give them a heads up and a nudge to improve their own experience (and not just on our sites), while not blocking them from browsing a site with less functionality. I do tend to warn users gently they may have a sub-optimal experience if they are using an antiquated browser. Those Flash messages on the iPad are poorly implemented. If they are sniffing for flash, they should be sniffing for the user agent too... that is if there's a non-flash alternative. But really, those developers are going to be extinct soon. I don't have an iPad. How often does that actually occur? -Shaun On 7/12/12 11:04 AM, Sean Hannan wrote: I go by my statistics (and you should, too). I can't make users use another browser (as much as I'd like them to). The bulk of our users still use IE (well, the bulk use a WebKit browser--Chrome/Safari--but lumping those together isn't an assumption I'm ready to lean on yet). That IE majority is shrinking, though. I'm in the middle of launching a new site redesign (old: http://www.library.jhu.edu new: http://testsh.mse.jhu.edu/newwebsite), so this is very present in my mind at the moment. My cutoff is IE8. Everything IE8 and above is fine and will work fine with the new site. And honestly, since I'm not doing anything that fancy with the new site (it's pretty stripped down on purpose), that IE8 limitation is really based on CORS support. IE7 don't got it. People will upgrade when they upgrade. Libraries aren't really in the position to force users to change their browsing habits. -Sean On 7/12/12 10:33 AM, Michael Schofieldmschofi...@nova.edu wrote: Hi Code4Lib, Ever since Microsoft announced the new IE auto-update policy, the blogosphere is fussing. This is definitely important (and good) news, but sites-Smashing Magazine has three articles on it in the last few days-are really pushing the drop IE support, and its literally slowing the internet down. I'm down, but that attitude-especially for libraries-isn't really the right one to have. It is, IMHO, an old view. A smart design strategy with progressive enhancement can deliver content to . everyone - which should be the priority for non-prof / [local-]government web presences over flare. Right? Anyway, all of this is coming from some really good web developers who don't really face the same issues that have to be considered for library sites. I was just curious what the library community actually thought about this. Thanks, Michael Here's some reading: Old Browsers ar eHOlding Back the Web (July 9th): http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012/07/09/old-browsers-are-holding-back-the -web/ Dear Web User: Please Upgrade Your Browser (July 10th) : http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012/07/10/dear-web-user-please-upgrade-your -browser/ It's Time to Stop Blaming Internet Explorer (July 12th): http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012/07/12/its-time-to-stop-blaming-internet -explorer/ A recent library blog today: Have you Given Much thought to browsers? : http://www.meanlaura.com/archives/1528 -- Shaun D. Ellis Digital Library Interface Developer Firestone Library, Princeton University voice: 609.258.1698 | sha...@princeton.edu -- Cary Gordon The Cherry Hill Company http://chillco.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars
I'd have to agree with this, as the one time I can recall putting this kind of message up we received complaints from faculty members. Aaron Collier Library Academic Systems Analyst California State University, Fresno - Henry Madden Library 559.278.2945 acoll...@csufresno.edu http://www.csufresno.edu/library - Original Message - From: Cary Gordon listu...@chillco.com To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:25:03 AM Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars I think that anyone using IE 6 knows that they are skiing on barrel staves. Those messages mostly piss folks off, particularly when they are on a library site. On the other hand, I really love getting please update your Flash messages on my iPad :P On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Michael Schofield mschofi...@nova.edu wrote: Does anyone actually generate a conditional message--say, if LTE IE7--to suggest that visitors upgrade or otherwise warn them about a wonky site? //Michael -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Cary Gordon Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 2:11 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars While we will support anything that our clients want supported, we warn them away from IE6 and other expensive to support antiquities. We definitely pay attention to IE during development, as backtracking to fix an issue that has been buried can be both depressing and expensive. We test in Chrome, Firefox, IE, Opera, and Safari. We test Responsive and/or mobile sites in a range of mobile clients. Thanks, Cary On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:40 AM, Aaron Collier acoll...@csufresno.edu wrote: Firefox is the leader on our stats, but I think that's mostly because it is the default browser on almost any campus system. IE is close behind though while mobile browsers are the most sparse. I guess the old develop in firefox, test in IE still holds true. Aaron Collier Library Academic Systems Analyst California State University, Fresno - Henry Madden Library 559.278.2945 acoll...@csufresno.edu http://www.csufresno.edu/library - Original Message - From: Brig C McCoy bmc...@kckpl.org To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:28:03 AM Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars Hi... This is from the last six weeks from one of my public-facing websites. Definitely not going to drop MSIE support for the website at this rate: # #reqs #pages browser 1 18137 827 MSIE 8651 437 MSIE/8 7400 277 MSIE/9 1866 52 MSIE/7 193 42 MSIE/6 16 16 MSIE/5 11 3 MSIE/10 2 1809 441 Safari 1128 299 Safari/533 202 58 Safari/534 214 54 Safari/7534 79 23 Safari/6533 41 4 Safari/530 13 3 Safari/531 3 906 260 Netscape (compatible) 4 1287 182 Firefox 442 114 Firefox/13 408 34 Firefox/12 139 11 Firefox/10 163 6 Firefox/3 28 6 Firefox/14 11 5 Firefox/9 6 2 Firefox/4 12 2 Firefox/6 4 1 Firefox/15 8 1 Firefox/7 5 1164 175 Chrome 718 111 Chrome/19 409 61 Chrome/20 23 1 Chrome/9 4 1 Chrome/10 1 1 Chrome/5 ...brig On 7/12/2012 9:33 AM, Michael Schofield wrote: Ever since Microsoft announced the new IE auto-update policy, the blogosphere is fussing. This is definitely important (and good) news, but sites-Smashing Magazine has three articles on it in the last few days-are really pushing the drop IE support, and its literally slowing the internet down. I'm down, but that attitude-especially for libraries-isn't really the right one to have. It is, IMHO, an old view. A smart design strategy with progressive enhancement can deliver content to . everyone - which should be the priority for non-prof / [local-]government web presences over flare. Right?-- Brig C. McCoy bmc...@kckpl.org Network Services Coordinator Kansas City, Kansas Public Library 625 Minnesota Avenue Kansas City, KS 66101 tel 913-279-2349 cel 816-885-2700 fax 913-279-2271 -- Cary Gordon The Cherry Hill Company http://chillco.com -- Cary Gordon The Cherry Hill Company http://chillco.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars
I agree with Cary on that point. If you're still using IE6, I have no idea where you've been the last few years and your internet is broken all over the place least of all the library website and they are likely using it for a specific purpose. I don't think force IE updates make any difference in how we develop our websites. Microsoft still officially supports IE7 and IE8, and so for the moment, do we. We develop in FF/Chrome and then test in IE, Opera, Safari (on MAC and Windows, because FF and Opera at least behave differently on the two). I say, take a look at your own stats, but I'm willing to bet, like the bulk of the people who have replied, IE is heavily used to access your library website. [this got sent a lot later, I thought I had hit the send button already!] On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Cary Gordon listu...@chillco.com wrote: I think that anyone using IE 6 knows that they are skiing on barrel staves. Those messages mostly piss folks off, particularly when they are on a library site. On the other hand, I really love getting please update your Flash messages on my iPad :P On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Michael Schofield mschofi...@nova.edu wrote: Does anyone actually generate a conditional message--say, if LTE IE7--to suggest that visitors upgrade or otherwise warn them about a wonky site? //Michael -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Cary Gordon Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 2:11 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars While we will support anything that our clients want supported, we warn them away from IE6 and other expensive to support antiquities. We definitely pay attention to IE during development, as backtracking to fix an issue that has been buried can be both depressing and expensive. We test in Chrome, Firefox, IE, Opera, and Safari. We test Responsive and/or mobile sites in a range of mobile clients. Thanks, Cary On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:40 AM, Aaron Collier acoll...@csufresno.edu wrote: Firefox is the leader on our stats, but I think that's mostly because it is the default browser on almost any campus system. IE is close behind though while mobile browsers are the most sparse. I guess the old develop in firefox, test in IE still holds true. Aaron Collier Library Academic Systems Analyst California State University, Fresno - Henry Madden Library 559.278.2945 acoll...@csufresno.edu http://www.csufresno.edu/library - Original Message - From: Brig C McCoy bmc...@kckpl.org To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:28:03 AM Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars Hi... This is from the last six weeks from one of my public-facing websites. Definitely not going to drop MSIE support for the website at this rate: # #reqs #pages browser 1 18137 827 MSIE 8651 437 MSIE/8 7400 277 MSIE/9 1866 52 MSIE/7 193 42 MSIE/6 16 16 MSIE/5 11 3 MSIE/10 2 1809 441 Safari 1128 299 Safari/533 202 58 Safari/534 214 54 Safari/7534 79 23 Safari/6533 41 4 Safari/530 13 3 Safari/531 3 906 260 Netscape (compatible) 4 1287 182 Firefox 442 114 Firefox/13 408 34 Firefox/12 139 11 Firefox/10 163 6 Firefox/3 28 6 Firefox/14 11 5 Firefox/9 6 2 Firefox/4 12 2 Firefox/6 4 1 Firefox/15 8 1 Firefox/7 5 1164 175 Chrome 718 111 Chrome/19 409 61 Chrome/20 23 1 Chrome/9 4 1 Chrome/10 1 1 Chrome/5 ...brig On 7/12/2012 9:33 AM, Michael Schofield wrote: Ever since Microsoft announced the new IE auto-update policy, the blogosphere is fussing. This is definitely important (and good) news, but sites-Smashing Magazine has three articles on it in the last few days-are really pushing the drop IE support, and its literally slowing the internet down. I'm down, but that attitude-especially for libraries-isn't really the right one to have. It is, IMHO, an old view. A smart design strategy with progressive enhancement can deliver content to . everyone - which should be the priority for non-prof / [local-]government web presences over flare. Right?-- Brig C. McCoy bmc...@kckpl.org Network Services Coordinator Kansas City, Kansas Public Library 625 Minnesota Avenue Kansas City, KS 66101 tel 913-279-2349 cel 816-885-2700 fax 913-279-2271 -- Cary Gordon The Cherry Hill Company http://chillco.com -- Cary Gordon The Cherry Hill Company http://chillco.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars
I think this is true for a lot of users who access library sites. Frequently they are using a computer they have no control over. It would only be an annoyance to have a message telling them they're on an outdated browser. On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 3:44 PM, Aaron Collier acoll...@csufresno.edu wrote: I'd have to agree with this, as the one time I can recall putting this kind of message up we received complaints from faculty members. Aaron Collier Library Academic Systems Analyst California State University, Fresno - Henry Madden Library 559.278.2945 acoll...@csufresno.edu http://www.csufresno.edu/library - Original Message - From: Cary Gordon listu...@chillco.com To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:25:03 AM Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars I think that anyone using IE 6 knows that they are skiing on barrel staves. Those messages mostly piss folks off, particularly when they are on a library site. On the other hand, I really love getting please update your Flash messages on my iPad :P On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Michael Schofield mschofi...@nova.edu wrote: Does anyone actually generate a conditional message--say, if LTE IE7--to suggest that visitors upgrade or otherwise warn them about a wonky site? //Michael -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Cary Gordon Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 2:11 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars While we will support anything that our clients want supported, we warn them away from IE6 and other expensive to support antiquities. We definitely pay attention to IE during development, as backtracking to fix an issue that has been buried can be both depressing and expensive. We test in Chrome, Firefox, IE, Opera, and Safari. We test Responsive and/or mobile sites in a range of mobile clients. Thanks, Cary On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:40 AM, Aaron Collier acoll...@csufresno.edu wrote: Firefox is the leader on our stats, but I think that's mostly because it is the default browser on almost any campus system. IE is close behind though while mobile browsers are the most sparse. I guess the old develop in firefox, test in IE still holds true. Aaron Collier Library Academic Systems Analyst California State University, Fresno - Henry Madden Library 559.278.2945 acoll...@csufresno.edu http://www.csufresno.edu/library - Original Message - From: Brig C McCoy bmc...@kckpl.org To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:28:03 AM Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars Hi... This is from the last six weeks from one of my public-facing websites. Definitely not going to drop MSIE support for the website at this rate: # #reqs #pages browser 1 18137 827 MSIE 8651 437 MSIE/8 7400 277 MSIE/9 1866 52 MSIE/7 193 42 MSIE/6 16 16 MSIE/5 11 3 MSIE/10 2 1809 441 Safari 1128 299 Safari/533 202 58 Safari/534 214 54 Safari/7534 79 23 Safari/6533 41 4 Safari/530 13 3 Safari/531 3 906 260 Netscape (compatible) 4 1287 182 Firefox 442 114 Firefox/13 408 34 Firefox/12 139 11 Firefox/10 163 6 Firefox/3 28 6 Firefox/14 11 5 Firefox/9 6 2 Firefox/4 12 2 Firefox/6 4 1 Firefox/15 8 1 Firefox/7 5 1164 175 Chrome 718 111 Chrome/19 409 61 Chrome/20 23 1 Chrome/9 4 1 Chrome/10 1 1 Chrome/5 ...brig On 7/12/2012 9:33 AM, Michael Schofield wrote: Ever since Microsoft announced the new IE auto-update policy, the blogosphere is fussing. This is definitely important (and good) news, but sites-Smashing Magazine has three articles on it in the last few days-are really pushing the drop IE support, and its literally slowing the internet down. I'm down, but that attitude-especially for libraries-isn't really the right one to have. It is, IMHO, an old view. A smart design strategy with progressive enhancement can deliver content to . everyone - which should be the priority for non-prof / [local-]government web presences over flare. Right?-- Brig C. McCoy bmc...@kckpl.org Network Services Coordinator Kansas City, Kansas Public Library 625 Minnesota Avenue Kansas City, KS 66101 tel 913-279-2349 cel 816-885-2700 fax 913-279-2271 -- Cary Gordon The Cherry Hill Company http://chillco.com -- Cary Gordon The Cherry Hill Company http://chillco.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars
On Jul 12, 2012, at 3:39 PM, Cary Gordon wrote: It is almost worth getting an iPad just to see all the clueless messages. Borrow one and try some restaurant sites. The restaurant business seems to have the absolute worst relationship between what they spend and the usefulness of what they get. I understand and respect your view, but still contend that regardless of the reason that someone is using IE 6, they have certainly had enough time to figure it out by now. The only way that IE6 users will have a good experience is if you build a site for them. iPads are especially annoying because there are so many websites that must've been re-written to support iPhones, but haven't had any updates, so they insist on redirecting you to the 'mobile' version of the website. Which often, goes something like: http://xkcd.com/869/ I actually have fewer problems on my WebOS phone, as no one bothered to write specifically for it. (or be smart, and ask for the resolution or window size, and deal with things that way ... or even use CSS sheet with '@media handheld') ... As for IE6, one of the many arguments against supporting is is that by catering to people who are still using 12 year old web browsers, you're keeping them from upgrading to a more secure browser. Now, ideally, you don't make pages that are completely useless without plugins and javascript and whatever turned on ... but we shouldn't be forced to make it pretty for 'em. ... And more scripting languages (javascript/ecmascript/whatever they want to call it) that are intended to be used across platforms without knowing what version it's going to be run from ... need to have some way of asking 'hey, do you support (x)', rather than all of the assumptions based on the browser string (which in my case, is often a lie, specifically because of those sites that make bad assumptions), and they may have no idea what stuff I've specifically limited in my security preferences. -Joe (who complains every year when I have to re-take the annual security training that won't work unless I (1) allow pop-ups, (2) allow plug-ins and (3) allow java)
Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars
Interesting, Safari has just pulled into the lead over here. 1. Safari 29.82% 2. Internet Explorer 27.73% 3. Firefox 24.69% 4. Chrome 12.88% 5. Android Browser 3.32% But that is not counting the library computers, which default to IE8 or in some cases Public Web Browser (!). We got a hundred IE6 visits last month - a tiny percentage, but they're still out there. As a public library, we avoid putting up barriers to access, and I try to be very careful about that with our website. It's a public accommodation, after all. Nowadays, I am starting to feel like the lack of a mobile site is such a barrier, because almost 10% of visits are coming from mobile devices. Not having a mobile site for that 10% feels a little like finding out 10% of our library patrons use wheelchairs, then building steps in front of the door. Genny Engel Sonoma County Library gen...@sonoma.lib.ca.us 707 545-0831 x581 www.sonomalibrary.org -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Aaron Collier Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:41 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars Firefox is the leader on our stats, but I think that's mostly because it is the default browser on almost any campus system. IE is close behind though while mobile browsers are the most sparse. I guess the old develop in firefox, test in IE still holds true. Aaron Collier Library Academic Systems Analyst California State University, Fresno - Henry Madden Library 559.278.2945 acoll...@csufresno.edu http://www.csufresno.edu/library - Original Message - From: Brig C McCoy bmc...@kckpl.org To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:28:03 AM Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars Hi... This is from the last six weeks from one of my public-facing websites. Definitely not going to drop MSIE support for the website at this rate: # #reqs #pages browser 1 18137 827 MSIE 8651 437 MSIE/8 7400 277 MSIE/9 1866 52 MSIE/7 193 42 MSIE/6 16 16 MSIE/5 11 3 MSIE/10 2 1809 441 Safari 1128 299 Safari/533 202 58 Safari/534 214 54 Safari/7534 79 23 Safari/6533 41 4 Safari/530 13 3 Safari/531 3 906 260 Netscape (compatible) 4 1287 182 Firefox 442 114 Firefox/13 408 34 Firefox/12 139 11 Firefox/10 163 6 Firefox/3 28 6 Firefox/14 11 5 Firefox/9 6 2 Firefox/4 12 2 Firefox/6 4 1 Firefox/15 8 1 Firefox/7 5 1164 175 Chrome 718 111 Chrome/19 409 61 Chrome/20 23 1 Chrome/9 4 1 Chrome/10 1 1 Chrome/5 ...brig On 7/12/2012 9:33 AM, Michael Schofield wrote: Ever since Microsoft announced the new IE auto-update policy, the blogosphere is fussing. This is definitely important (and good) news, but sites-Smashing Magazine has three articles on it in the last few days-are really pushing the drop IE support, and its literally slowing the internet down. I'm down, but that attitude-especially for libraries-isn't really the right one to have. It is, IMHO, an old view. A smart design strategy with progressive enhancement can deliver content to . everyone - which should be the priority for non-prof / [local-]government web presences over flare. Right?-- Brig C. McCoy bmc...@kckpl.org Network Services Coordinator Kansas City, Kansas Public Library 625 Minnesota Avenue Kansas City, KS 66101 tel 913-279-2349 cel 816-885-2700 fax 913-279-2271
Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars
then clearly is answer is to make your website responsive! On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Genny Engel gen...@sonoma.lib.ca.us wrote: Interesting, Safari has just pulled into the lead over here. 1. Safari 29.82% 2. Internet Explorer 27.73% 3. Firefox 24.69% 4. Chrome 12.88% 5. Android Browser 3.32% But that is not counting the library computers, which default to IE8 or in some cases Public Web Browser (!). We got a hundred IE6 visits last month - a tiny percentage, but they're still out there. As a public library, we avoid putting up barriers to access, and I try to be very careful about that with our website. It's a public accommodation, after all. Nowadays, I am starting to feel like the lack of a mobile site is such a barrier, because almost 10% of visits are coming from mobile devices. Not having a mobile site for that 10% feels a little like finding out 10% of our library patrons use wheelchairs, then building steps in front of the door. Genny Engel Sonoma County Library gen...@sonoma.lib.ca.us 707 545-0831 x581 www.sonomalibrary.org -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Aaron Collier Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:41 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars Firefox is the leader on our stats, but I think that's mostly because it is the default browser on almost any campus system. IE is close behind though while mobile browsers are the most sparse. I guess the old develop in firefox, test in IE still holds true. Aaron Collier Library Academic Systems Analyst California State University, Fresno - Henry Madden Library 559.278.2945 acoll...@csufresno.edu http://www.csufresno.edu/library - Original Message - From: Brig C McCoy bmc...@kckpl.org To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:28:03 AM Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars Hi... This is from the last six weeks from one of my public-facing websites. Definitely not going to drop MSIE support for the website at this rate: # #reqs #pages browser 1 18137 827 MSIE 8651 437 MSIE/8 7400 277 MSIE/9 1866 52 MSIE/7 193 42 MSIE/6 16 16 MSIE/5 11 3 MSIE/10 2 1809 441 Safari 1128 299 Safari/533 202 58 Safari/534 214 54 Safari/7534 79 23 Safari/6533 41 4 Safari/530 13 3 Safari/531 3 906 260 Netscape (compatible) 4 1287 182 Firefox 442 114 Firefox/13 408 34 Firefox/12 139 11 Firefox/10 163 6 Firefox/3 28 6 Firefox/14 11 5 Firefox/9 6 2 Firefox/4 12 2 Firefox/6 4 1 Firefox/15 8 1 Firefox/7 5 1164 175 Chrome 718 111 Chrome/19 409 61 Chrome/20 23 1 Chrome/9 4 1 Chrome/10 1 1 Chrome/5 ...brig On 7/12/2012 9:33 AM, Michael Schofield wrote: Ever since Microsoft announced the new IE auto-update policy, the blogosphere is fussing. This is definitely important (and good) news, but sites-Smashing Magazine has three articles on it in the last few days-are really pushing the drop IE support, and its literally slowing the internet down. I'm down, but that attitude-especially for libraries-isn't really the right one to have. It is, IMHO, an old view. A smart design strategy with progressive enhancement can deliver content to . everyone - which should be the priority for non-prof / [local-]government web presences over flare. Right?-- Brig C. McCoy bmc...@kckpl.org Network Services Coordinator Kansas City, Kansas Public Library 625 Minnesota Avenue Kansas City, KS 66101 tel 913-279-2349 cel 816-885-2700 fax 913-279-2271
Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars
No Opera? -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Brig C McCoy Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:28 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars Hi... This is from the last six weeks from one of my public-facing websites. Definitely not going to drop MSIE support for the website at this rate: # #reqs #pages browser 1 18137 827 MSIE 8651437 MSIE/8 7400277 MSIE/9 186652MSIE/7 193 42MSIE/6 16 16MSIE/5 11 3 MSIE/10 2 1809441 Safari 1128299 Safari/533 202 58Safari/534 214 54Safari/7534 79 23Safari/6533 41 4 Safari/530 13 3 Safari/531 3 906 260 Netscape (compatible) 4 1287182 Firefox 442 114 Firefox/13 408 34Firefox/12 139 11Firefox/10 163 6 Firefox/3 28 6 Firefox/14 11 5 Firefox/9 6 2 Firefox/4 12 2 Firefox/6 4 1 Firefox/15 8 1 Firefox/7 5 1164175 Chrome 718 111 Chrome/19 409 61Chrome/20 23 1 Chrome/9 4 1 Chrome/10 1 1 Chrome/5 ...brig On 7/12/2012 9:33 AM, Michael Schofield wrote: Ever since Microsoft announced the new IE auto-update policy, the blogosphere is fussing. This is definitely important (and good) news, but sites-Smashing Magazine has three articles on it in the last few days-are really pushing the drop IE support, and its literally slowing the internet down. I'm down, but that attitude-especially for libraries-isn't really the right one to have. It is, IMHO, an old view. A smart design strategy with progressive enhancement can deliver content to . everyone - which should be the priority for non-prof / [local-]government web presences over flare. Right?-- Brig C. McCoy bmc...@kckpl.org Network Services Coordinator Kansas City, Kansas Public Library 625 Minnesota Avenue Kansas City, KS 66101 tel 913-279-2349 cel 816-885-2700 fax 913-279-2271
Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars
I don't think it's entirely black and white though. It really depends on the type of site and the community it serves. What about innovative interfaces, visualizations, and apps that are valuable resources, but simply not possible without modern browsers? These are usually extended or experimental services and may have a smaller user base. I think it's perfectly reasonable in that case to let people know that they need to upgrade to join the party. In the case of traditional services, such as the catalog, I agree that they should just work without disclaimers. Right, I forgot about the dreaded restaurant sites with generic ambient loops and PDF menus. Come to think of it, that might be an iPad feature to not display them! :) -Shaun On 7/12/12 3:44 PM, Aaron Collier wrote: I'd have to agree with this, as the one time I can recall putting this kind of message up we received complaints from faculty members. Aaron Collier Library Academic Systems Analyst California State University, Fresno - Henry Madden Library 559.278.2945 acoll...@csufresno.edu http://www.csufresno.edu/library - Original Message - From: Cary Gordonlistu...@chillco.com To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:25:03 AM Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars I think that anyone using IE 6 knows that they are skiing on barrel staves. Those messages mostly piss folks off, particularly when they are on a library site. On the other hand, I really love getting please update your Flash messages on my iPad :P On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Michael Schofieldmschofi...@nova.edu wrote: Does anyone actually generate a conditional message--say, if LTE IE7--to suggest that visitors upgrade or otherwise warn them about a wonky site? //Michael -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Cary Gordon Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 2:11 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars While we will support anything that our clients want supported, we warn them away from IE6 and other expensive to support antiquities. We definitely pay attention to IE during development, as backtracking to fix an issue that has been buried can be both depressing and expensive. We test in Chrome, Firefox, IE, Opera, and Safari. We test Responsive and/or mobile sites in a range of mobile clients. Thanks, Cary On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:40 AM, Aaron Collieracoll...@csufresno.edu wrote: Firefox is the leader on our stats, but I think that's mostly because it is the default browser on almost any campus system. IE is close behind though while mobile browsers are the most sparse. I guess the old develop in firefox, test in IE still holds true. Aaron Collier Library Academic Systems Analyst California State University, Fresno - Henry Madden Library 559.278.2945 acoll...@csufresno.edu http://www.csufresno.edu/library - Original Message - From: Brig C McCoybmc...@kckpl.org To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:28:03 AM Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Browser Wars Hi... This is from the last six weeks from one of my public-facing websites. Definitely not going to drop MSIE support for the website at this rate: # #reqs #pages browser 1 18137 827 MSIE 8651 437 MSIE/8 7400 277 MSIE/9 1866 52 MSIE/7 193 42 MSIE/6 16 16 MSIE/5 11 3 MSIE/10 2 1809 441 Safari 1128 299 Safari/533 202 58 Safari/534 214 54 Safari/7534 79 23 Safari/6533 41 4 Safari/530 13 3 Safari/531 3 906 260 Netscape (compatible) 4 1287 182 Firefox 442 114 Firefox/13 408 34 Firefox/12 139 11 Firefox/10 163 6 Firefox/3 28 6 Firefox/14 11 5 Firefox/9 6 2 Firefox/4 12 2 Firefox/6 4 1 Firefox/15 8 1 Firefox/7 5 1164 175 Chrome 718 111 Chrome/19 409 61 Chrome/20 23 1 Chrome/9 4 1 Chrome/10 1 1 Chrome/5 ...brig On 7/12/2012 9:33 AM, Michael Schofield wrote: Ever since Microsoft announced the new IE auto-update policy, the blogosphere is fussing. This is definitely important (and good) news, but sites-Smashing Magazine has three articles on it in the last few days-are really pushing the drop IE support, and its literally slowing the internet down. I'm down, but that attitude-especially for libraries-isn't really the right one to have. It is, IMHO, an old view. A smart design strategy with progressive enhancement can deliver content to . everyone - which should be the priority for non-prof / [local-]government web presences over flare. Right?-- Brig C. McCoy bmc...@kckpl.org Network Services Coordinator Kansas City, Kansas Public Library 625 Minnesota Avenue Kansas City, KS 66101 tel 913-279-2349 cel 816-885-2700 fax 913-279-2271 -- Cary Gordon The Cherry Hill Company http://chillco.com -- Shaun D. Ellis Digital Library Interface Developer Firestone Library, Princeton University voice: 609.258.1698 | sha...@princeton.edu
