Re: Peer Discovery
On 12/11/06, Richard Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 12/8/06, Colin Curtin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Put two Neos in a room with no cell service - can they find each other? Even with service, if nobody punches in 'codes' on each? Oh, if only it had bluetooth. If the speaker could output frequencies above ~22kHz, and the microphone sampling rate could be tweaked high enough.. you may be able to build a primative close-range comm protocol with that? Well, I still remember modems that used acoustic couplers. So it might be a solution to just use old modem technology (300 baud anyone?) for transmitting small files from Neo to Neo. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Neo1973 + PSP == wifi proxy?
I dropped the original idea below because of its limited utility, and this follow-up has even less utility.. however, since there is some javascript support in the PSP browser.. and the PSP would export its file-system to the Neo.. it should be technically possible. I wouldn't like to guess at the approximate bandwidth though ;-) Richard On 11/29/06, Richard Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/29/06, Richard Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh wait. You mean hosting the HTML file(s) on the Neo? By pointing the PC browser to the HTML file on the Neo's memory, you could in effect set up a meta-refresh every second or so, or use AJAX to read files (requests) from the Neo's memory, and pass them on to the external Server as subsequent requests. GWT has a nice feature whereby it regards return requests as asyncronous events. All it would require is javascript support. Hey! This is the first project idea which we (the community) could start today and complete even before the first Neo1973 ships, without access to the SDK or any other data. Booya. There would be three components: 1) A small utility (cpp? Preferences?) which: * Runs on the Neo and opens up a localhost port - the Neo would connect to this. * Sets up a ring-buffer (implemented by files: request1.html request10.html) * Forwards results it receives back from the server (via the browser) to the localhost client 2) The AJAX part which handles the PC end of the bridge 3) The server utility which speaks to the PC and understands the Neo1973 requests it receives... or just passes it on in the case of an SSH tunnel. There is actually a disconnect on the AJAX-Neo side - not sure of the best way to get the return data from the browser back onto the Neo's filesystem for dissemination, without invoking the file-download dialog. Streaming is one way, but would require kernel hacking to implement a file as a ring-buffer? If it's not a ring-buffer then you run out of storage space. Oh wait, the file the PC browser writes to on the USB stick, can be implemented as a symlink by the Neo.. to a device instantiated by the app (1). Ok, good - did I miss anything? Who wants to help develop this? Richard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
A battery powered USB hub
On #openmoko someone asked for a way to attach USB gadgets that need power to a Neo, and I found this device: http://www.amazon.com/Cyber-Power-Battery-Powered-CP-H420MP/dp/B0002UQALQ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Peer Discovery
Hi Joel, I guess you want something like: http://www.mulliner.org/bluetooth/btchat/ maybe a little less interactive... I guess I will give it a try once I have a device. Collin Quoting Joel Newkirk [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Presuming that V1 devices will lack bluetooth, what other means exist for one device to recognize proximity of another? With SMS we could communicate with a few 'friends' and keep updated as to GPS locations, but that depends on cell carrier and manually inputting number/email/something. GPRS wouldn't be useful, since most GPRS services (in my experience) don't allow inbound connections, and there'd be no easy way (short of an external server) to identify the IP of a potential peer device, locate it, or push data at it. What about a scenario like a conference, where two individuals meet and want to exchange contact data? I'm thinking about people who 'beam' their business cards between PDAs, for example. Put two Neos in a room with no cell service - can they find each other? Even with service, if nobody punches in 'codes' on each? Several ideas I've read on the list depend on autonomous communications between devices, but short of entering a number and subsequently communicating via SMS, I don't see it. j ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GSM security question, mic directly connected to the GSM chip? Re: GPLv3 and Mobile Phones
Salve Sean, Stefan, *! On Sun, 10 Dec 2006, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: On 12/10/06 3:02 AM, Stefan Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Keep in mind that I'm not speaking for the FIC team here. The flash chips containing the BP OS will be able get new firmware flashed. I'm pretty sure that no GSM stack is bugfree. roving bug? Stefan is totally correct here. The GSM subsystem is most certainly not ROM. So the firmware could be changed over the network without the chance to recognince that, right? http://news.com.com/2100-1029_3-6140191.html FBI taps cell phone mic as eavesdropping tool December 1, 2006, 2:20 PM PST The technique is called a roving bug, and was approved by top U.S. Department of Justice officials for use against members of a New York organized crime family who were wary of conventional surveillance techniques such as tailing a suspect or wiretapping him. What's new: The FBI is apparently using a novel surveillance technique on alleged Mafioso: activating his cell phone's microphone and then just listening. While it appears this is the first use of the roving bug technique, it has been discussed in security circles for years. [...] The surveillance technique came to light in an opinion published this week by U.S. District Judge Lewis Kaplan. He ruled that the roving bug was legal because federal wiretapping law is broad enough to permit eavesdropping even of conversations that take place near a suspect's cell phone. [...] I think it will not be possible to do something against silent SMS¹ but that the mic could be used remotly with the close source GSM chip, is something that should be avoidable. Will the Neo1973 have a protection that the mic could be disconected form the GSM chip when not calling? Greetings, rob ¹ silent SMS a trick to have unvisible communication to cause trackable communication with the mobil. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
somewhat off topic: dreaming of a neo 1973
I had a dream last night in which I was showing off my Neo to my geek friends, who of course were drooling over the open Linux-based design and hardware features such as the VGA screen and the USB host port. Have I been spending too much time writing, reading, and thinking about this project :-)? Sean and others, keep up the good work. Remember that in spite of the length of our wishlist, and the voracity of our arguments, most (all?) of us are thrilled with this project and look forward to developing software for it. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 + PSP == wifi proxy?
Hi, PSP is not an open platform (Sony SDK costs $1), but there is the homebrew SDK (http://ps2dev.org/psp), it's kind of hacking but it is possible sometimes to get the homebrew apps to run on the PSP. So wifi proxy can be implemented in C++ (PSP 2.7/8/+ firmware also supports Flash). I think it's interesting to make a more abstract project, I mean unified wifi/bluetooth/etc proxy for various platforms. Just another example: Neo1973 = Bluetooth = Desktop PC = Internet. And so on. Best wishes, Alex -Original Message- From: Richard Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: OpenMoko community@lists.openmoko.org Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 10:08:02 -0500 Subject: Neo1973 + PSP == wifi proxy? I dropped the original idea below because of its limited utility, and this follow-up has even less utility.. however, since there is some javascript support in the PSP browser.. and the PSP would export its file-system to the Neo.. it should be technically possible. I wouldn't like to guess at the approximate bandwidth though ;-) Richard On 11/29/06, Richard Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/29/06, Richard Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh wait. You mean hosting the HTML file(s) on the Neo? By pointing the PC browser to the HTML file on the Neo's memory, you could in effect set up a meta-refresh every second or so, or use AJAX to read files (requests) from the Neo's memory, and pass them on to the external Server as subsequent requests. GWT has a nice feature whereby it regards return requests as asyncronous events. All it would require is javascript support. Hey! This is the first project idea which we (the community) could start today and complete even before the first Neo1973 ships, without access to the SDK or any other data. Booya. There would be three components: 1) A small utility (cpp? Preferences?) which: * Runs on the Neo and opens up a localhost port - the Neo would connect to this. * Sets up a ring-buffer (implemented by files: request1.html request10.html) * Forwards results it receives back from the server (via the browser) to the localhost client 2) The AJAX part which handles the PC end of the bridge 3) The server utility which speaks to the PC and understands the Neo1973 requests it receives... or just passes it on in the case of an SSH tunnel. There is actually a disconnect on the AJAX-Neo side - not sure of the best way to get the return data from the browser back onto the Neo's filesystem for dissemination, without invoking the file-download dialog. Streaming is one way, but would require kernel hacking to implement a file as a ring-buffer? If it's not a ring-buffer then you run out of storage space. Oh wait, the file the PC browser writes to on the USB stick, can be implemented as a symlink by the Neo.. to a device instantiated by the app (1). Ok, good - did I miss anything? Who wants to help develop this? Richard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: audio link Re: Peer Discovery
On 12/11/06, Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 10 bonus points if it sounds like R2D2. efficient data transmission via audio mustn't sound well for the user - DTMF for transmitting your phonenumber would be acceptable, but the other modulations? Heh! That idea was intended just for handshaking/swapping business cards - very small amounts of data. Hands up who wouldn't sacrifice a little speed, for a phone that shared business cards with a fellow Neo1973 with cute 'threeps' and 'twerps'? To beem your virtual business card via audio it would be nice when the data transmission would be encoded into a non uggly modification of a voice output: I'm beaming you now my virtual buseness card - complete Or multiplexing a higher frequency data signal, if the hardware supports it? Such a solution could be also run on other smartphones with java - send and receive business cards and more without Bluetooth or IRDA nor cable nor online connections. I wonder if it's possible to support the basic modem signalling protocol in software? I haven't touched anything like that, but if for the price of a local phonecall and an old PCI modem, I could call a PC and encrypt whatever I liked through that connection.. it could end up being a cheaper, secure, alternative than GPRS? Richard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
SoC has no soundcard - which IC will do this? Re: audio link Re: Peer Discovery
Salve Richard,*! BTW the SoC does not have a soundcard, which IC will do this job? http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/MobileSoC/ApplicationProcessor/ARM9Series/S3C2410/2410UserManual.pdf On Mon, 11 Dec 2006, Richard Franks wrote: On 12/11/06, Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 10 bonus points if it sounds like R2D2. efficient data transmission via audio mustn't sound well for the user - DTMF for transmitting your phonenumber would be acceptable, but the other modulations? Heh! That idea was intended just for handshaking/swapping business cards - very small amounts of data. Hands up who wouldn't sacrifice a little speed, for a phone that shared business cards with a fellow Neo1973 with cute 'threeps' and 'twerps'? To beem your virtual business card via audio it would be nice when the data transmission would be encoded into a non uggly modification of a voice output: I'm beaming you now my virtual buseness card - complete Or multiplexing a higher frequency data signal, if the hardware supports it? What does we know about the hardware? I hope we will use audio i/o and that the device will also have audio in. Back to the idea to transmit bcards data via audio, in some situation it would be nice to do this silently, but to make it hearable has advantage - the user knows that something happend and the can controll that the sound is loud and clear enough. And it was just my proposal to do not only focus on speed (threeps), then on nice sound to. ;) Such a solution could be also run on other smartphones with java - send and receive business cards and more without Bluetooth or IRDA nor cable nor online connections. I wonder if it's possible to support the basic modem signalling protocol in software? Yes. I haven't touched anything like that, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packet_Radio but if for the price of a local phonecall and an old PCI modem, I could call a PC and encrypt whatever I liked through that connection.. it could end up being a cheaper, secure, alternative than GPRS? I don't know about the Neo1973 but most GSM mobils does support data calls with 9600 Baud, and AFAIK does this calls cost the same price as normal phone calls. I have used a PalmPilot my mobil (with IRDA link) with a data calls to fetch and send emails... So this is an alternative to GPRS. Because the telefon audio is encoded it is not so funny/easy to use normal modem algorithem to send via GSM audio. Maybe 1200 Baud, a 1/4 of the data-calls would be possible. So I'm not shure if this would bring any advantages for somebody... But I thought about two ideas - J2ME client for business card beaming via audio for non-Neo1973 phones - audio link to PCs for internet access. BTW I'm not an amateur radio operator (yet...) but here is a link to a Knoppix image for hams http://www.afu-knoppix.de/neu/index.php?lng=1id=22 I'm shure that hams will love OpenMoko/Neo1973 for digital connections :) And because of this, could imagine that a GSM mobil with a software tranceiver (or just PMR, DMR) would be a nice thing... *g* Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
