AT commands document (Was: Fax modem? Fax software? Neo as T.38 gateway?)

[Carlo E. Prelz]

Subject: Re: Fax modem? Fax software? Neo as T.38 gateway?
Date: mar 30 gen 07 12:02:42 +0100

Quoting Andreas Kostyrka ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):

> > My question is: would the GSM chip has a modem
> > for data connections and also fax support?
> Good question. And if it is, is it a standard class 1 faxmodem like
> common with GSM mobiles nowaday?

Related question: is it possible to have (a pointer to) the document
with the AT commands that the closed telephone module responds to?
Most probably, the description of the AT+FCLASS command should contain
info about fax functionality.

Maybe, a repository with datasheets (I think about interfacing the
telephone module and the GPS subsystem, but there may be more) could
be already made available.

Carlo

-- 
  * Se la Strada e la sua Virtu' non fossero state messe da parte,
* K * Carlo E. Prelz - [EMAIL PROTECTED] che bisogno ci sarebbe
  *   di parlare tanto di amore e di rettitudine? (Chuang-Tzu)

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Re: DBus for Generic Data Access Methods?

[Marcel Holtmann]

Hi Richi,

> > > Correct, but I think what Mickey is after is that the client programs just
> > > ask for "contacts" and the translation layer checks both
> > > '/org/openmoko/contacts' and '/org/gnome/evolution/dataserver/addressbook'
> > > and anywhere else contacts or an addressbook may be.  Personally I think
> > > this is a decent idea, as I've already had ideas for extra information
> > > that could be housed in each contact, but I don't know how extensible
> > > EDS is in this regard.
> > 
> > another totally useless shim layer. Not a good idea. Fix the current
> > interface if it is not sufficient.
> 
> What example of a fix would you suggest?

the thing that is wrong with the interface. If any.

> I don't mind layers. Layers is a good thing in many cases since it
> brings some logic to low-level interfaces, effectively making them
> high-level calls. If there's a logical need for a shim layer, then it's
> not useless. There might be better ways of doing it, but "better" has to
> be qualified. That means a comparison of the pros and cons of various
> approaches.

The D-Bus interface will already be that layer. So no extra layer on top
of it is needed.

And let me repeat this over and over again, we are talking about open
source. We can fix things if we later realize they were wrong or not
sufficient.

> > Just a small reminder for people only thinking for one language. The
> > D-Bus is accessible from various languages like C, Python, Perl, Mono,
> > Haskell etc. While an enum with constants is great in C, it is not that
> > much fun if you use the Python interpreter from the command line. Let me
> > give you an example. What do you prefer:
> > 
> > bluetooth.SetMode(0x01)  or  bluetooth.SetMode("connectable")
> 
> Personally I would prefer
> 
> bluetooth.SetMode(bluetooth.Mode.CONNECTABLE) # or whatever the
> consensus is for constants

Except that D-Bus is not C# or Java. It is an object oriented approach
for an API, but it is not an object oriented programming language.

> First of all, there's that (granted minor) advantage of speed since
> numeric comparisons are faster than string comparisons. In cellphones
> and other low-powered devices, these things add up. But another
> advantage (and one most people might not care about) is that it's easier
> to make the API cross-language (human) when there's a common numeric
> value which binds concepts (ie. it's conceivable even if unlikely that
> someone might create an API with identifiers written in, say, Chinese).

We have UTF-8 and so that is no big deal. And even 7-bit ASCII is a good
common sense when it comes to string identifiers.

The problem with the common known constant is that you actually have to
known it. Ask yourself what you wanna do when you type in a Python
command line to change the mode of a device. Lookup a really long table
with numbers of simply expect SetMode("off") to work.

The advantage of speed is not that important. You don't have that many
operation at one time any. And if you do than D-Bus is the wrong
approach. An example for that would be that you are not going to
transfer a complete email (including attachments etc.) via D-Bus. It is
simply not designed that way. It is a message bus and you exchange
messages and not do data transfer.

> Granted it's easier to manually play around with settings (a'la
> gconf-editor) where the human doesn't have to convert to numeric values
> and can instead use strings, I've always been of the opinion that
> utility programs (GUI and text) should be smarter and have the programs
> do the conversion and presentation (ie. text-completion in text-based
> utilities and drop-down lists in GUIs).

What has that to do with anything. And I haven't even touched the area
of localization.

Regards

Marcel



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Re: Possibilities for commercial software?

[Rod Whitby]

Oleg Gusev wrote:
> Free-Software-only is the goal, but it's unfortunately not easy to
> achieve and depends on our common efforts.

Mike wrote:
> Are you one of the people running the OM project?

Oleg Gusev wrote:
> No.

Then on what basis, Oleg, do you make the statement "Free-Software-only
is the goal" without prefixing that sentence with "In my opinion ..." ?

Your goal may not be shared by others on the project.  Stating it as
"the goal" only incites people.  Stating it as "my goal", or "my
opinion" is not nearly so inflammatory.

In general (and in my opinion), the phrase "In my opinion" is not used
often enough on this community mailing list, and would go some way to
defusing some of the heated debates ...

-- Rod



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Re: Phone enhancements

[Ian Stirling]

Jose Ildefonso Camargo Tolosa wrote:

Hi!

On 1/29/07, Graham Auld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bryce Leo
Sent: 29 January 2007 14:31
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: Phone enhancements

>  You'd have to be doing some serious zigzagging: resolution of GPS at





I'd have to agree on this one, I use GPS systems in several areas and
generally see resolutions between 2 and 10 meters on average with 5-6 
sats

in use.

Granted to detect zig zags you'd need to be quite careful with how you 
used

the data, telling the difference between weaving and dodging pot holes...

Maybe I should light the touch paper and suggest this be a use for the
famous accelerometer that's been mentioned so much ;-)


Yes, the accelerometer :) .  And, now that we are at it, why we just


To do inertial guidance, you need to know your initial speed/direction, 
and the accellerations after that time.
However, with a 2 or even 3 axis accellerometer in the neo, you can't 
reliably do this, as there is no way of determining which direction the 
neo faces.


The constant accelleration of gravity helps with long term 
disambiguation, somewhat, though it's possible in a plane for example to 
fly into the ground, ending up inverted pulling 1G towards the ground, 
without the water in a glass of water on the console ever moving.


The phone can't tell between you spinning round horizontally with the 
phone in your outstretched arm, from you braking from high speed.


To do this it needs an orientation reference of some sort, a 3-axis 
compass, or gyros.


Micromachined gyros these days are not very expensive, neither are 
accellerometers, but you're still looking at maybe $30 in volume, and 
the resultant position rapidly gets inaccurate, drifting a few degrees a 
minute, and a meter a second a so a minute. (for an uncertainty of maybe 
  30m radius after 1m, 3Km after 10m.


(there is significant tradeoff of accuracy vs cost, you can get maybe 10 
times better than this, more gets into the range that you need to go to 
fiber optic gyros, which will not fit in any reasonable phone)



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Re: Phone enhancements

[Jose Ildefonso Camargo Tolosa]

Hi!

On 1/29/07, Graham Auld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bryce Leo
Sent: 29 January 2007 14:31
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: Phone enhancements

>  You'd have to be doing some serious zigzagging: resolution of GPS at
> street level is about 50 meters...

Exactly the point!! if you're zig zaggin that much you definately need to
have the cops get called!

But on a serious note, how could it be 50 meters? That's about 165 feet...
in certain cases about 3 different roads... Most of the Garmin products are
at 1m/3feet resolution. I'm sure that most consumer devices are within about
2m/6ft. Do you have numbers that I don't in this case?

Bryce Leo

I'd have to agree on this one, I use GPS systems in several areas and
generally see resolutions between 2 and 10 meters on average with 5-6 sats
in use.

Granted to detect zig zags you'd need to be quite careful with how you used
the data, telling the difference between weaving and dodging pot holes...

Maybe I should light the touch paper and suggest this be a use for the
famous accelerometer that's been mentioned so much ;-)


Yes, the accelerometer :) .  And, now that we are at it, why we just
don't add: pressure sensor (atmosferic), temperature sensor, relative
humidity It would just be under US$50 all of these well, plus
about 2-3 hours programmer time (more or less, depending on the
skill), and about 2 hours of the electronic engenieer (to implant the
thing into the device's design).



Graham

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Re: Fax modem? Fax software? Neo as T.38 gateway?

[Andreas Kostyrka]

* Robert Michel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [070129 22:58]:
> My question is: would the GSM chip has a modem
> for data connections and also fax support?
Good question. And if it is, is it a standard class 1 faxmodem like
common with GSM mobiles nowaday?

Andreas

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Fax modem? Fax software? Neo as T.38 gateway?

[Robert Michel]

Salve!

I know that Fax is quite outdate and I'm not
shure that I will need this but Fax over IP FoIP
is not so easy to use like Voip today.
(E.g. Asterisk miss a T.38 implemention)

So for people without a landline telephone connection
sending FAX via GSM could become intersting.

And with the 480x640 screen, touchscreen, 
and the linux printer drivers potential it would
be interesting to send/recive/view faxs with
OpenMoko/Neo1973, let me say some day - hacking
this would need some work and others will have
more priority (IMHO).

My question is: would the GSM chip has a modem
for data connections and also fax support?

Greetings,
rob

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Re: Silent mode timeout

[Marcus Haebler]

I would like to see a specific profile activated when I am in the car.

Based on recent GPS changes (vectors) the phone should be able
to conclude that I am in the car and switch the profile to my car
profile (e.g. loud ring tone + visual indication).

We could sum the whole feature up under "GPS location & vector
and time sensitive profile switching".

Best,

Marcus


I also like to see the silent mode integrated with my current gps
posistion. Define locations where you are often ond like to have a
silent phone at this place. Theater, cinema, meeting room, lecture
room,...

Of course there are unknown places and at this moment your silent
timeout comes into play.


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RE: Silent mode timeout

[Crane, Matthew]

Maybe to implement these ideas in general:

- take idea of shortcut in general as some functional aspect of the
phone
- define these with time or position data to make a cue, to allow timed
and/or position based trigger of the shortcuts

If the phone's shortcuts could be triggered via a straightforward sdk
call then these features could be implemented on top of system service
daemons like crond.  Maybe there is a similar daemon to crond that
resonds to the GPS coordinates already for linux?  If not, not hard to
make with easy coordinate info access.  These could execute a
command-line binary which calls the SDK to trigger a shortcut, with a
number as an argument to identify the shortcut id.  Of course, I don't
know if the SDK would even cover something like shortcuts. 

Shortcuts could be things like dialing a number, changing to a mode
(loud/silent/forwarding/no call waiting), changing to a service
provider, etc.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Oberg
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 2:15 PM
To: Stefan Schmidt
Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Silent mode timeout

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1



Stefan Schmidt wrote:
> Hello.
> 
> I cc openmoko-devel for interested developer.
> 
> 
> On Mon, 2007-01-29 at 09:30, Ben Burdette wrote:
>> A simple feature that I'd like to see is a silent mode timeout.  What

>> always happens with my current phone is I set it to silent mode
because 
>> I'm in a movie or a meeting, and then later I forget to turn the
ringer 
>> back on.  This leads to a lot of missed calls.
> 
> Nice idea. I have the same problem. :)
> 
> I also like to see the silent mode integrated with my current gps
> posistion. Define locations where you are often ond like to have a
> silent phone at this place. Theater, cinema, meeting room, lecture
> room,...
I was thinking the same thing for 'The baby room', etc.  However, we
might want to be a little careful with the manager that switches
profiles.  e.g. In 'airplane' mode, it shouldn't switch to 'silent with
radio on' when your flight path goes near your home:)  I suppose that
the gps shouldn't be on either in airplane mode, but I hope it
illustrates the point. In summary, I think that the profile manager
should be able to have sticky profiles or the ability to veto requests
by the gps auto-profile switcher/deamon to change profiles.

Scott
> 
> Of course there are unknown places and at this moment your silent
> timeout comes into play.
> 
> regards
> Stefan Schmidt
> 
> 
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transparent effect to overlay two calender Re: idea: World Clock

[Robert Michel]

Salve Mary,*!

Nice idea :)

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007, Mary Stovel wrote:

> The pictures of the Neo show a clock.  Will this be a world clock?

I would like that the normal calendar shows time of daylight
- brigher background during the local day 
- darker background during the nigth (maybe including the
  influence of the moon of the nigth darkness..)
 dark background during solar eclipse :))

Some Linux desktops does have transparent windows,
another idea would be charing calender informtion with
partner/friends - to see when the best time would be to
call them, or to arrange a date having the calender
of the partner in the background.

Now when the partner's calender has dark background I see
when at his localisation the sun will go up/down so it wouln't
be so important to compare the numbers of hours to call at the
right time - the overlaping calender will make it more
intuitive.

Imagine a team/group of 7 people will have a (virtual) meeting and
they want to find the best date for everybody - instead of big
anoying discussion what is with Monday... transmitt the free
times via Bluetooth or GPRS (encrypted) to the others and everybody
can see his calender in front and the other layers with free times
from the team members so it will be visibil (maybe inverted=show
only the time when a person haven't time) for everybody when
the best date would be and when there is a good date where e.g.
only on person haven't time, the 6 can ask him directly if he
can move his date

What do you think? Will it possible to use transperent effects
to have several layers on the screen?

Greetings,
rob

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Re: Another GPS post from a GL engineer

[Oleg Gusev]

Am Montag, 29. Januar 2007 16:50 schrieb Sean Moss-Pultz:
>
> THERE are four basic sorts of GPS:
>
> Autonomous - the standard hand-held device that gets a fix in 1
> to 3 minutes outdoors
>

Ok, so we have a confirmation from GL that the 50bps datastream is
available, can be decoded and used.

 Oleg.

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Re: GIS on the Moko!

[Oleg Gusev]

Am Montag, 29. Januar 2007 16:53 schrieb Paolo Cavallini:
>
> Sure, but will qtopia have a gps?
>

gpsd(8)  does not depend on GUI environment.

 Oleg.

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Re: Silent mode timeout

[Ian Stirling]

Scott Oberg wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1



Stefan Schmidt wrote:

Hello.

I cc openmoko-devel for interested developer.


On Mon, 2007-01-29 at 09:30, Ben Burdette wrote:
A simple feature that I'd like to see is a silent mode timeout.  What 
always happens with my current phone is I set it to silent mode because 
I'm in a movie or a meeting, and then later I forget to turn the ringer 
back on.  This leads to a lot of missed calls.

Nice idea. I have the same problem. :)

I also like to see the silent mode integrated with my current gps
posistion. Define locations where you are often ond like to have a
silent phone at this place. Theater, cinema, meeting room, lecture
room,...



I was thinking the same thing for 'The baby room', etc.  However, we
might want to be a little careful with the manager that switches
profiles.  e.g. In 'airplane' mode, it shouldn't switch to 'silent with
radio on' when your flight path goes near your home:)  I suppose that
the gps shouldn't be on either in airplane mode, but I hope it
illustrates the point. In summary, I think that the profile manager
should be able to have sticky profiles or the ability to veto requests
by the gps auto-profile switcher/deamon to change profiles.


Have a mode 'waypoint' have altitude too, and radius.
You only stay in that mode while your current vector will not take you 
outside it in one minute.


So you never go into a mode when flying or driving past somewhere.

Also, the GPS being on when in flight mode is safe - GPS does not emit.

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Re: Possibilities for commercial software?

[Oleg Gusev]

Am Montag, 29. Januar 2007 17:30 schrieb Mike:
>
> Are you one of the people running the OM project?
>
No.

 Oleg.

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Re: Silent mode timeout

[Scott Oberg]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1



Stefan Schmidt wrote:
> Hello.
> 
> I cc openmoko-devel for interested developer.
> 
> 
> On Mon, 2007-01-29 at 09:30, Ben Burdette wrote:
>> A simple feature that I'd like to see is a silent mode timeout.  What 
>> always happens with my current phone is I set it to silent mode because 
>> I'm in a movie or a meeting, and then later I forget to turn the ringer 
>> back on.  This leads to a lot of missed calls.
> 
> Nice idea. I have the same problem. :)
> 
> I also like to see the silent mode integrated with my current gps
> posistion. Define locations where you are often ond like to have a
> silent phone at this place. Theater, cinema, meeting room, lecture
> room,...
I was thinking the same thing for 'The baby room', etc.  However, we
might want to be a little careful with the manager that switches
profiles.  e.g. In 'airplane' mode, it shouldn't switch to 'silent with
radio on' when your flight path goes near your home:)  I suppose that
the gps shouldn't be on either in airplane mode, but I hope it
illustrates the point. In summary, I think that the profile manager
should be able to have sticky profiles or the ability to veto requests
by the gps auto-profile switcher/deamon to change profiles.

Scott
> 
> Of course there are unknown places and at this moment your silent
> timeout comes into play.
> 
> regards
> Stefan Schmidt
> 
> 
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Re: idea: World Clock

[David Schlesinger]

Speaking as someone who travels (a _lot_) widespread and configurable
support for time zones would be a very attractive feature. For example, if
there's a portion of the status bar (or equivalent) that's
user-configurable, being able to throw a second widget or gadget or whatever
in there to display the time in a second timezone would be a nice feature.

(OT: R. Buckminster Fuller had the habit of wearing three watches when he
was on lecture tours or otherwise traveling: one for where he'd been, one
for where he was going, and one for the time at his home...)

Multiple timezone support on Microsoft's current mobile OS's is horrific:
you basically have to dig down through the settings to get to a pop-up menu
item which, monolithically, transmutes everything on the system to an
alternate timezone, at which point you can back all the way out and enter
your appointment, say, in the zone you want. Then you have to deep-dive
through the settings again to change it back. There's no supplied world
clock application. Outlook desktop support is laughable as well, in
different ways.

ACCESS' Garnet OS (nee "Palm OS") is much better--you can create
appointments in their native timezones, and there's a world clock
included--but still not quite as good as it could be.

On 1/29/07 10:27 AM, "Andrew Turner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Well, what if you just entered the phone number - based on the country
> code & region/area code, the time is displayed at that location.

That's a nice idea.

> Or when you go to your address book and show a user, it shows the time
> for that person.

Also a good idea, but it should be configurable (as should contact display
in general, ideally). With limited screen real estate, you may not be able
to (or want to) display all of a fully populated contact record, so
configuring the display, ideally on a per-record basis, is a plus...

> And while you mention it - re: Alarms, the *best* interface feature
> for an alarm I've ever seen is on my current mobile. After you set the
> alarm, it confirms by saying, "Alarm will ring in 8h 40m". That is
> such a comfortable feeling to confirm the alarm is set right (that
> it's not for PM by saying 20h ;)

See, that's an excellent idea. If you can get confirmation of something in
an indirect or secondary way, that's a really good validation of the
input...


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Re: idea: World Clock

[Al Johnson]

Also time related:
Setting timezone based on location
I can see by your location you've changed timezone from X to Y. Would 
you 
like to change timezone?
Setting timezone of events in PIM
Depart Calais at 21:00 (GMT+1), arrive Folkestone 20:30 (GMT). iCal 
files can 
represent this, but I've yet to use a PIM app that'll let me set it. 

On Monday 29 January 2007 18:27, Andrew Turner wrote:
> Well, what if you just entered the phone number - based on the country
> code & region/area code, the time is displayed at that location.
>
> Or when you go to your address book and show a user, it shows the time
> for that person.
>
> And while you mention it - re: Alarms, the *best* interface feature
> for an alarm I've ever seen is on my current mobile. After you set the
> alarm, it confirms by saying, "Alarm will ring in 8h 40m". That is
> such a comfortable feeling to confirm the alarm is set right (that
> it's not for PM by saying 20h ;)
>
>
> Andrew
>
> On 1/29/07, Mary Stovel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > The pictures of the Neo show a clock.  Will this be a world clock?
> > I would really like one so that when I get to Germany next year, I
> > can keep track of time back home for making my calls.  One with
> > ability to set alarms would be great.
> > mary
> >
> > ___
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> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

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Re: idea: World Clock

[michael]

On 1/29/07, Mary Stovel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

 The pictures of the Neo show a clock.  Will this be a world clock?
 I would really like one so that when I get to Germany next year, I
 can keep track of time back home for making my calls.  One with
 ability to set alarms would be great.


Great idea, Mary. As someone who travels a fair bit, and has family on 3
continents, I need this. Please add to the appropriate page on the wiki.

Another feature I would like is the ability to have the time be the default
display, in a BIG font filling the screen. It seems that 90% of the time when
I pull my cellphone out of my pocket it's to check the time, and on my current
phone the time is displayed in such a small font that I need to put on my
glasses in order to read it while the rest of the screen is empty. Not a good
use of screen real estate.

This sounds like a fun little application that I am highly motivated to
implement, if no one else does.



On Mon, 29 Jan 2007, Andrew Turner wrote:


Well, what if you just entered the phone number - based on the country
code & region/area code, the time is displayed at that location.

Or when you go to your address book and show a user, it shows the time
for that person.

And while you mention it - re: Alarms, the *best* interface feature
for an alarm I've ever seen is on my current mobile. After you set the
alarm, it confirms by saying, "Alarm will ring in 8h 40m". That is
such a comfortable feeling to confirm the alarm is set right (that
it's not for PM by saying 20h ;)


Andrew


Great idea, that confirmation. I once had a flight to catch early morning on
the day of the change to daylight savings time. I didn't know whether my
cellphone was automatically going to change when daylight savings took effect,
and whether it was smart enough to take that into account considering that I
set the alarm the night before. I was so concerned about getting it right that
I set two alarm clocks.

I got them both wrong :-) *

Extending your idea, I'd like the phone to (optionally) say something like:
"Change to daylight savings occurs tomorrow at 2am. Taking this into account,
your alarm will ring at 6am, which is in 8 hrs and ...".

Which brings up another point: I presume that date and time updates are
provided by the carrier, but how we use them depends on the application.
Taking Mary's initial comment, I'd like my phone to be aware of the 4
different times I'm interested in, and when I switch on the phone in a new
country to automatically make that the local time and add the previous local
time as another of my "interested" times. This comes in handy when trying to
make calls along the way and for keeping flight arrival and departure times in
order in my head. I can later delete the intermediate times that were added
while making changes to connecting flights.

* I made the flight anyway, thanks to the taxi driver with a loud horn and a
bit of patience :-)

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Re: Silent mode timeout

[Stefan Schmidt]

Hello.

I cc openmoko-devel for interested developer.


On Mon, 2007-01-29 at 09:30, Ben Burdette wrote:
> A simple feature that I'd like to see is a silent mode timeout.  What 
> always happens with my current phone is I set it to silent mode because 
> I'm in a movie or a meeting, and then later I forget to turn the ringer 
> back on.  This leads to a lot of missed calls.

Nice idea. I have the same problem. :)

I also like to see the silent mode integrated with my current gps
posistion. Define locations where you are often ond like to have a
silent phone at this place. Theater, cinema, meeting room, lecture
room,...

Of course there are unknown places and at this moment your silent
timeout comes into play.

regards
Stefan Schmidt

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Re: idea: World Clock

[Andrew Turner]

Well, what if you just entered the phone number - based on the country
code & region/area code, the time is displayed at that location.

Or when you go to your address book and show a user, it shows the time
for that person.

And while you mention it - re: Alarms, the *best* interface feature
for an alarm I've ever seen is on my current mobile. After you set the
alarm, it confirms by saying, "Alarm will ring in 8h 40m". That is
such a comfortable feeling to confirm the alarm is set right (that
it's not for PM by saying 20h ;)


Andrew

On 1/29/07, Mary Stovel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

The pictures of the Neo show a clock.  Will this be a world clock?
I would really like one so that when I get to Germany next year, I
can keep track of time back home for making my calls.  One with
ability to set alarms would be great.
mary

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--
Andrew Turner
[EMAIL PROTECTED]42.4266N x 83.4931W
http://highearthorbit.com  Northville, Michigan, USA

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Re: Q: desktop software?

[Andreas Kostyrka]

* Bryce Leo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [070129 15:09]:
> >I would like to use FreeNX to use the Neo1973 from
> >a Workstation, and to have video projctor presentation
> >live from a Neo1973.
> 
> That sounds like a fantastic idea. It should be pretty simple to get
> something like FreeNX up and running on the device.

For the size of the display, you might get even better results with VNC.

Andreas


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idea: World Clock

[Mary Stovel]

The pictures of the Neo show a clock.  Will this be a world clock?
I would really like one so that when I get to Germany next year, I  
can keep track of time back home for making my calls.  One with  
ability to set alarms would be great.

mary

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Re: Silent mode timeout

[Ben Burdette]

I added the page, but somehow I managed to put a '#' at the beginning of 
the title.  I don't seem to have delete or rename authority, so would 
someone mind renaming the page? 


Ben

Gervais Mulongoy wrote:

Hello Ben,

Please add this idea here 
(http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/Ideas) so its easier to find.


-Gervais.

On 1/29/07, *Ben Burdette* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote:


A simple feature that I'd like to see is a silent mode timeout.  What
always happens with my current phone is I set it to silent mode
because
I'm in a movie or a meeting, and then later I forget to turn the
ringer
back on.  This leads to a lot of missed calls.  You could have a
default
timeout for simply holding down the 'volume down' button (if there is
one on this phone), and this default would initially be 'no timeout'.
When you enter silent mode, the GUI could display this current timeout
and allow you to adjust it then.  A checkbox would allow you to make
this the new default timeout.




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Re: Another GPS post from a GL engineer

[Dave Crossland]

On 29/01/07, Sean Moss-Pultz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


OpenMokoids


LOL

I hope this phrase is somewhere in the official documentation :-)

--
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Dave

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Re: Silent mode timeout

[Gervais Mulongoy]

Hello Ben,

Please add this idea here (http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/Ideas)
so its easier to find.

-Gervais.

On 1/29/07, Ben Burdette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


A simple feature that I'd like to see is a silent mode timeout.  What
always happens with my current phone is I set it to silent mode because
I'm in a movie or a meeting, and then later I forget to turn the ringer
back on.  This leads to a lot of missed calls.  You could have a default
timeout for simply holding down the 'volume down' button (if there is
one on this phone), and this default would initially be 'no timeout'.
When you enter silent mode, the GUI could display this current timeout
and allow you to adjust it then.  A checkbox would allow you to make
this the new default timeout.

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Re: Silent mode timeout

[Knight Walker]

On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 09:30:38AM -0700, Ben Burdette wrote:
> A simple feature that I'd like to see is a silent mode timeout.  What 
> always happens with my current phone is I set it to silent mode because 
> I'm in a movie or a meeting, and then later I forget to turn the ringer 
> back on.  This leads to a lot of missed calls.  You could have a default 
> timeout for simply holding down the 'volume down' button (if there is 
> one on this phone), and this default would initially be 'no timeout'.  
> When you enter silent mode, the GUI could display this current timeout 
> and allow you to adjust it then.  A checkbox would allow you to make 
> this the new default timeout. 

I agree with this, but not just for silent mode.  My current phone (Nokia)
has the ability to set a timed expiration (profile expires at a specified
time and returns to the previous profile) for ALL phone profiles.  It's
EXTREMELY useful, as I can set it to "Meeting" mode at the beginning of a
meeting and have it automatically return to "Normal" mode at the end of
the meeting, though with the MoKo's GPS ability, I'd also like to see if 
it's possible to set profiles to expire if I've traveled a set distance
from the current position (e.g. 50 meters to cover possible GPS
inaccuracies).

-KW

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Re: Silent mode timeout

[Robert Michel]

Salve Ben!

Good idea ;)

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007, Ben Burdette wrote:

> A simple feature that I'd like to see is a silent mode timeout.  What 
> always happens with my current phone is I set it to silent mode because 
> I'm in a movie or a meeting, and then later I forget to turn the ringer 
> back on.  This leads to a lot of missed calls.  You could have a default 
> timeout for simply holding down the 'volume down' button (if there is 
> one on this phone), and this default would initially be 'no timeout'.  
> When you enter silent mode, the GUI could display this current timeout 
> and allow you to adjust it then.  A checkbox would allow you to make 
> this the new default timeout. 

But beside of time - localisation would be also working
- Leave this place +/- 50-100m  and the phone will ring again.

"Don't ring here, now"-modus

But GPS system could have errors, so I would like to see an GPS controll
network to warn OpenMoko/Neo1973 users when GPS is not working proper
way  - ok not ALARM! BEEEP ALARM! BEEEP ALARM!..non proper GPS could 
activate  unforseen  non-silent modus and maybe will trouble you
ALARM! BP ALARM!... 
;)

So the time methode would be a more trustable one ;)

Greetings
rob

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Silent mode timeout

[Ben Burdette]

A simple feature that I'd like to see is a silent mode timeout.  What 
always happens with my current phone is I set it to silent mode because 
I'm in a movie or a meeting, and then later I forget to turn the ringer 
back on.  This leads to a lot of missed calls.  You could have a default 
timeout for simply holding down the 'volume down' button (if there is 
one on this phone), and this default would initially be 'no timeout'.  
When you enter silent mode, the GUI could display this current timeout 
and allow you to adjust it then.  A checkbox would allow you to make 
this the new default timeout. 


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Re: Possibilities for commercial software?

[Mike]

> Am Montag, 29. Januar 2007 02:52 schrieb Mike:
>>
>> If someone from OM chimes in and
>> says OSS-only really is the goal, I'll buy a Palm Treo tomorrow and
>> never
>> look at this project again.
>>
>
> Free-Software-only is the goal, but it's unfortunately not easy to achieve
> and depends on our common efforts.
>
>  Oleg.
>

Are you one of the people running the OM project?


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Another GPS post from a GL engineer

[Sean Moss-Pultz]

Guys,

Here are more comments to recent GPS related posts on this list. Hope you'll
find some answers here.

--

On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 02:38:20PM +0100, Michele Manzato wrote:
> Some additional questions on this subject:
> 
> 1. Is there any "A-GPS standard" whatsoever?

no. It's a broad term for many variants of GPS

THE SUPL (Secure User Plane) standard is promulgated by OMA, and being
investigated worldwide.
The carriers love 'em and hate 'em:
LOVE: not a big need to add N.E.  (low $$)
HATE: the carriers don't own the position fix (loss of $$)
The handset communicates using the OMA SUPL standard using objects
encoded in ASN.1 to a SUPL server anywhere on the net (that the carrier
allows access to).  (On the other side of the SUPL server is a reliable
feed of ephemeris from GPS receivers all over the world.  This is part
of Global Locate's WWRN business, and is distinct from the LTO and the
chip business.  The WWRN biz is standards based and quite competitive.)

Impressive performance results from AGPS when properly deployed.  There
are some absolutely kick-ass AGPS handsets in Japan:  full VGA, and with
Java's JSR179: many, many applications right away.

The eventual goal is C-Plane, where the assistance data is via the
telephony control plane.
Kinda the opposite of SUPL, so much more intensive protocol efforts.
But by far the fastest way to get a position fix, and most reliable for
E911.

> 2. I have heard elsewhere (Wikipedia) that in A-GPS the computation
> effort is shared between the device and the A-GPS Server. According to

> a previous post, the device just downloads the ephemeris table so
> there isn't any actual "computation sharing", but rather a download of

> a pre-computed table download. Correct?


THERE are four basic sorts of GPS:

Autonomous - the standard hand-held device that gets a fix in 1
to 3 minutes outdoors, or never indoors.

Enhanced Autonomous "etonomous" - maybe this is what you heard
about.  Global Locate predicts the satellite orbits for 2, 4, 7, or 10
days in advance, and you download that.  AKA "Long Term Orbit" or LTO.
Marketed as "Quick GPS Connection" by HP, and "Express GPS Connect" by
Global Locate.  The advantage is you can get a 40 kB burst in seconds
vs. 50 bits per second (or 0 bps if you're indoors) from the sky.  You
can cache and forward this file at your heart's content.  Consumers
don't pay for it:  the device maker pays a little bit extra per chipset
for this data.

MS-Based - The handset tells the SUPL/C-Plane server it's MSISDN
and cell tower info.  The server responds with exactly the specific SVs
that are visible right now, and the ephemeris for them.  The MS
(handset/mobile station/fill in your telephony GCA here...) computes the
position for use on the handset.  It can also send the information back
to the server.  The ephemeris is good for (on average) about 2 hours.

MS-Assisted - The server tells the MS what measurements to make.
The device responds with the measurements.  The server computes (and
"owns") the position.  No ephemeris at all.

This is a rather simple explanation, as the call flows are a little more
involved.

> 3. A-GPS involves additional data traffic and thus (potential)
> additional costs. Does it use a normal GSM/GPRS IP-based data
> transfer? does it use some out-of-band GSM/GPRS control messages? or
> does it get data from broadcasts in the local cell (e.g. GSM
> cell-broadcast)?

C-PLANE is in the future, and not a part of Neo1973.  OpenMoko AGPS will
be configured by the user to connect to whatever SUPL or LTO server(s)
you prefer.  However, location information is very, very sensitive, so
Sean and I have talked a lot about how to preserve QoS and security
between competing GPS applications.

Here's an example problem about security that touches on security, QoS,
and other system issues:

1)  Secure application needs position for reporting to a
vertical-integrated application, with 50m accuracy.  Needs it NOW, and
so the LTO/MS-B scheme is desired.

2)  Pedestrian application wants to do geo-blogging and needs to
preserve battery power, and 100m accuracy is more than sufficient
because we don't want to burn a lot of power.  Etonomous or autonomous
is fine.

3)  Malicious app wants to deny service, so it starts the AGPS daemon
with a connection to the wrong SUPL server, and asks for 5m accuracy
periodic position fix.  So app (1) can't get access to the AGPS
connected to it's server.

I would hope the OpenMoko community creates a network connectivity QoS
agent that can trade off the cost vs performance vs power vs environment
of the Neo1973 to make intelligent decisions based on these factors:
 - GPRS , WiFi $$, BT $,   USB to a PC $0?
 - Power/Environment - GPRS most?  Plugged into the wall/carkit - Burn,
baby, burn!
 - User perferences about importance - high for MS-A, low for LTO?, but
during E911, telephony regulations set the rules, not Ope

Re: Phone enhancements

[David Schlesinger]

My recollection was a little out of date. Units without WAAS correction seem
to get something like 10 to 25 meters resolution... Units with correction do
better...

See http://www.doylesdartden.com/gis/gpstest.htm

On 1/29/07 6:57 AM, "Graham Auld" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bryce Leo
> Sent: 29 January 2007 14:31
> To: community@lists.openmoko.org
> Subject: Re: Phone enhancements
> 
>>  You'd have to be doing some serious zigzagging: resolution of GPS at
>> street level is about 50 meters...
> 
> Exactly the point!! if you're zig zaggin that much you definately need to
> have the cops get called!
> 
> But on a serious note, how could it be 50 meters? That's about 165 feet...
> in certain cases about 3 different roads... Most of the Garmin products are
> at 1m/3feet resolution. I'm sure that most consumer devices are within about
> 2m/6ft. Do you have numbers that I don't in this case?
> 
> Bryce Leo
> 
> I'd have to agree on this one, I use GPS systems in several areas and
> generally see resolutions between 2 and 10 meters on average with 5-6 sats
> in use.
> 
> Granted to detect zig zags you'd need to be quite careful with how you used
> the data, telling the difference between weaving and dodging pot holes...
> 
> Maybe I should light the touch paper and suggest this be a use for the
> famous accelerometer that's been mentioned so much ;-)
> 
> Graham
> 
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Re: GIS on the Moko!

[Paolo Cavallini]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Sure, but will qtopia have a gps?
pc

Oleg Gusev ha scritto:
> Am Montag, 29. Januar 2007 16:09 schrieb Paolo Cavallini:
>> My idea is to make the same think on the OM platform.
>>
> 
> The QGIS port to qtopia4.2 should be much easier, 
> don't you think ?
> 
>  Oleg.
> 
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- --
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Piazza Garibaldi 5 - 56025 Pontedera (PI), Italy   Tel: (+39)348-3801953
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Re: GIS on the Moko!

[Oleg Gusev]

Am Montag, 29. Januar 2007 16:09 schrieb Paolo Cavallini:
>
> My idea is to make the same think on the OM platform.
> 

The QGIS port to qtopia4.2 should be much easier, 
don't you think ?

 Oleg.

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GIS on the Moko!

[Paolo Cavallini]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

So we have a target now:
http://www.freeance.com/mobile
My idea is to make the same think on the OM platform.
pc
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Fancy animation with GPS power for promoting OpenMoko/Neo1973?

[Robert Michel]

Salve,

walking across my university, passing all other students,
I thought that a fance animation with some information
and demonstration of the OpenMoko/Neo1973 power, especialy
with live GPS demonstration would be nice to promote
OpenMoko/Neo1973...
No not to atrac(?) the laydies... no, no - I just think
that everybody who's passing should see the power of
OpenMoko/Neo1973 and will 
- remember OpenMoko.org
- get interested in this device/plattform
and maybe get active himself.

When OpenMoko.org have some videos and some simulations
(runnable without installation with Java..) it could be
a way to promote OpenMoko/Neo1973 - at least to other
people who like to develope

IMHO the clue would be that the animation would include
the position - lates news - wether information and maybe
what food will be offered in the mensa/cafeteria...

Of course this would consume power, but for just 3-5 minutes
walk it would worth it ;)

Do you have more ideas? Do you have ideas how to make such
a animaiton? With which (non-flash) tools?

Greetings
rob

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Re: Phone enhancements

[Ian Stirling]

Bryce Leo wrote:
 You'd have to be doing some serious zigzagging: resolution of GPS at 
street

level is about 50 meters...


Exactly the point!! if you're zig zaggin that much you definately need
to have the cops get called!

But on a serious note, how could it be 50 meters? That's about 165
feet... in certain cases about 3 different roads... Most of the Garmin
products are at 1m/3feet resolution. I'm sure that most consumer
devices are within about 2m/6ft. Do you have numbers that I don't in
this case?


Unless the GPS in the neo is terrible.
Some numbers I did back when GPS SA got turned off, using a Garmin GPS12 
at a fixed basepoint,

http://www.mauve.demon.co.uk/gps-average.gif
10s averages are red dots,
green 100 second, magenta circles 1 hour, cyan squares 6 hours, and 
black 24h.


Percentages are percent that fall inside the circle of given radius of 
10s averages.


Some data I've later gotten from driving around with it indicate that 
picking which lane you are in (4-5m) is not particualarly hard.



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RE: Phone enhancements

[Graham Auld]

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bryce Leo
Sent: 29 January 2007 14:31
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: Phone enhancements

>  You'd have to be doing some serious zigzagging: resolution of GPS at 
> street level is about 50 meters...

Exactly the point!! if you're zig zaggin that much you definately need to
have the cops get called!

But on a serious note, how could it be 50 meters? That's about 165 feet...
in certain cases about 3 different roads... Most of the Garmin products are
at 1m/3feet resolution. I'm sure that most consumer devices are within about
2m/6ft. Do you have numbers that I don't in this case?

Bryce Leo

I'd have to agree on this one, I use GPS systems in several areas and
generally see resolutions between 2 and 10 meters on average with 5-6 sats
in use.

Granted to detect zig zags you'd need to be quite careful with how you used
the data, telling the difference between weaving and dodging pot holes...

Maybe I should light the touch paper and suggest this be a use for the
famous accelerometer that's been mentioned so much ;-)

Graham

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Re: Q: desktop software?

[Robert Michel]

Salve Bryce!

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007, Bryce Leo wrote:
> >I would like to use FreeNX to use the Neo1973 from
> >a Workstation, and to have video projctor presentation
> >live from a Neo1973.
> 
> That sounds like a fantastic idea. It should be pretty simple to get
> something like FreeNX up and running on the device.
> 
> >Then a full emulation to use the full Neo1973 power
> >(beside the touchscreen) on a workstation as well.
> 
> Other than the touchscreen what sort of power are you referring to?

Primary the touchscreen and that curser and the Neo GUI should
make visibel that a "virtual" finger has touched a button 
so that it is more intuitive to understand what happens.

Than screenrecordings with visuable virtual fingers and spoken 
comments would be nice, so that beside of live presentations,
people could get impression how the Neo and it's software is
used.

> I'm probably thinking to literally as desktops are far more powerful
> than a handheld.

Routing of Sound would be a task as well - that the sound of the
Neo will transmitted with FreeNX to the workstation which is connected
to the fix-room-installed PA (room sound system).

> >So when the Neo1973 would get lost, lay at home/in the car
> >only access to any (trustworthy) workstation would be ok
> >to use the Neo1973.
> 
> Remember for as trivial as that may be to set up for slightly more
> technical folks, imagine if a very non technical person (i'm thinking
> of my mother right now) were to have to buy a new computer and found
> herself locked out of her phone. Now it's simple to say that they
> should read the manual(s) that come with the device, however we do
> know that "no one" reads them and everyone loses them.

The documentation of OpenMoko/Neo1973 should be on the Neo itself.

> I will say that I would love love love to see that as an option!
> 
> >Then do I think that client/server solution would become
> >more important then device/desktop software one, even for
> >normal user.
> 
> I think that the client/server solution is far more powerful and
> flexible, however the simplicity of "Hotsync" the one touch backup of
> your palm device is what made it so popular in the first place. I can
> take my Treo 650 home every day, connect a cord, press one button, and
> It's connected, now that's convience. I feel that that's the sort of
> conveince and simplicty that we  should shoot for. One touch backkup
> is a fantastic convience and a big +1 when it comes to deciding on a
> phone.

This is a possible way but think about this

- installing new software
  you know apt-cache search IRC, apt-cache show epic3, apt-get install epic3
  so when there is a graphical solution that the very non technical
  person could choose directly on the device what he whants to
  installl...
  
- back up
  because the Neo1973 has a USB host and device mode, it would be
  possible that the usr can define a virtual USB memory device.
  a Backup software on the Neo could behave like this:

  Backup 
  Welcome to your OpenMoko Backup tool.
  Your Backup will create 54 MB big file,
  which you could copy from the Neo1973 
  to your PC when you connect them with your
  No1973 via
  [USB] [Bluetooth] [GPRS]
  please select.

The file will be generated and you can copy from any other maschine.
The Neo1973 will reconginice that you have copied the backup-file
complete.

The same for storing the backup back... start the Restore tool and
copy back your backupfile.

Ah you mean there are users can't work with a shell or a filemanager?
A small application for copy 
c:\OpenMoko\Backup-RoberMichel-070129-15.bz2 
back to the USB memory device with the name "OpenMoko-RobertMichel"?
A small Program that creates a Internet Routing for the Neo, when it
is connected to the PC?

I would like to see solutions as much as possible independent of the
Workstation systems and installation from the Neo1973 (maybe with 
autorun from USB-Stick) then from a CD-ROM.
And to do this on a secure way, that you can backup/sycronice
in an internet cafe with your server, your NSLU2 at home without
any risks and any problems due the restiction of normal Internet Cafes.

I think from smart client/server solutions will profit even non
technical persons.

Greetings
rob

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Re: Phone enhancements

[Bryce Leo]

 You'd have to be doing some serious zigzagging: resolution of GPS at street
level is about 50 meters...


Exactly the point!! if you're zig zaggin that much you definately need
to have the cops get called!

But on a serious note, how could it be 50 meters? That's about 165
feet... in certain cases about 3 different roads... Most of the Garmin
products are at 1m/3feet resolution. I'm sure that most consumer
devices are within about 2m/6ft. Do you have numbers that I don't in
this case?

Bryce Leo

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Re: Q: desktop software?

[Bryce Leo]

I would like to use FreeNX to use the Neo1973 from
a Workstation, and to have video projctor presentation
live from a Neo1973.


That sounds like a fantastic idea. It should be pretty simple to get
something like FreeNX up and running on the device.


Then a full emulation to use the full Neo1973 power
(beside the touchscreen) on a workstation as well.


Other than the touchscreen what sort of power are you referring to?
I'm probably thinking to literally as desktops are far more powerful
than a handheld.


Very cool would be an emulation via web with java,
(maybe with FreeNX again) without any local installation.
(in this case with an own server running the emulation)





So when the Neo1973 would get lost, lay at home/in the car
only access to any (trustworthy) workstation would be ok
to use the Neo1973.


Remember for as trivial as that may be to set up for slightly more
technical folks, imagine if a very non technical person (i'm thinking
of my mother right now) were to have to buy a new computer and found
herself locked out of her phone. Now it's simple to say that they
should read the manual(s) that come with the device, however we do
know that "no one" reads them and everyone loses them.

I will say that I would love love love to see that as an option!


Then do I think that client/server solution would become
more important then device/desktop software one, even for
normal user.


I think that the client/server solution is far more powerful and
flexible, however the simplicity of "Hotsync" the one touch backup of
your palm device is what made it so popular in the first place. I can
take my Treo 650 home every day, connect a cord, press one button, and
It's connected, now that's convience. I feel that that's the sort of
conveince and simplicty that we  should shoot for. One touch backkup
is a fantastic convience and a big +1 when it comes to deciding on a
phone.

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Re: Phone enhancements

[David Schlesinger]

On 1/29/07 3:44 AM, "Jan Van Vlaenderen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>> >When the GPS senses you are zigzagging on a street, the phone could shutdown
>> your engine too :-)
>> >Even people that are not able to drive a car can be stopped.
>> >A lot less problems in my town on sunday morning ;-)
> 
You¹d have to be doing some serious zigzagging: resolution of GPS at street
level is about 50 meters...


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Re: Possibilities for commercial software?

[David Schlesinger]

On 1/29/07 4:49 AM, "Dave Crossland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 29/01/07, Ken Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> For me, the attraction of the
>> OM phone is the functionality that I can build on it, not that it's
>> only loaded with 100% Free Software.
> 
> If you make what you build available to the public, will they be able
> to build on that functionality?
> 
> If not, isn't something contradictory going on?

If I give you a DVD player as a gift, shouldn't that mean that you can then
go into stores and take all the free DVDs you want to play on it...?

If not, isn't something contradictory going on?

(Obviously not.)


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Re: Possibilities for commercial software?

[Dave Crossland]

On 29/01/07, Ken Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

For me, the attraction of the
OM phone is the functionality that I can build on it, not that it's
only loaded with 100% Free Software.


If you make what you build available to the public, will they be able
to build on that functionality?

If not, isn't something contradictory going on?

--
Regards,
Dave

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Re: Phone enhancements

[Jan Van Vlaenderen]

When the GPS senses you are zigzagging on a street, the phone could shutdown
your engine too :-)
Even people that are not able to drive a car can be stopped.
A lot less problems in my town on sunday morning ;-)

On 1/28/07, Declan Naughton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


On 1/28/07, Tehn Yit Chin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I know, couple the breathalyser with the GPS, the phone could detect
> you are driving while drunk and call the cops! ;-)

lol!

> That would be a really neat selling point for the next version, gps
> and a breathalyser the ultimate college student phone, then when you
> wake up dazed and confused you'll know weather you should drive back
> home and also know how to get there. :-D

ha, I think we can emulate this feature with no sensor at all:

if (saturday-morning && student)
  intoxicated();

--
Declan Naughton

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--
If you don't like something, change it. If you can't change it, change your
attitude. Don't complain.
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Re: Possibilities for commercial software?

[Oleg Gusev]

Am Montag, 29. Januar 2007 02:52 schrieb Mike:
>
> If someone from OM chimes in and
> says OSS-only really is the goal, I'll buy a Palm Treo tomorrow and never
> look at this project again. 
>

Free-Software-only is the goal, but it's unfortunately not easy to achieve
and depends on our common efforts.

 Oleg.

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Re: lightwight good XHTML webbrowser? Re: wap browser? any better one than wApua?

[Jose Manrique Lopez de la Fuente]

Hi Robert!

2007/1/27, Robert Michel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

Hmm, e.G. the German Railway http://wap.bahn.de is still
using wml 1.0 so what will help me an XHTML browser to
use this wappage? XHTML browser wouldn't help - it would
be nice that OpenMoko helps to use even Old (dead) WML.

Ok the railway have also page with XHTML as well:
http://mobile.bahn.de/



That's what I mean. Old WML is dead, since 5 years more or less,
people are working in WAP2.0, so I XHTML browser is the only need.


And which XHTML browser is lightwight and good to use
with OpenMoko/Neo1973?



I think that Gtk-WebCore based one would be nice. Specially if it has
ssl and javascript support. Perhaps Koen could say something about
gpe-minibrowser ;-)


When I look into the source - I would like to see a
client/server splitted XHTML browser that on a server
runs the backand and only the frontend on the Neo.
- pictures and same pages could be cached on the Neo
- the transmission beween back-front end compressed
- and long pages would be transmitted in parts (on
  demand)



I think it would be nice if Neo 1973 or OpenMoko devices could serve
their capabilities information so servers could adapt the content to
the device. I think you should check W3C Mobile Web Innitative[1] and
Wurfl[2] project.

Another aproach is UAProf[3]. When a mobile phone does a HTTP request
it sends an URI in HTTP X-WAP-Profile header that links to a RDF file
which describes device capabilities (screen size, max storage size,
etc.). So before sending the xhtml page to the phone, the serve adapts
images and file sizes for the device, so user gets what he wants. Of
course, this needs some server adaption layer. I've done some little
python hacks for that.

Another option is OperaMini, or some OpenMoko open solution based on
that. I am thinking about some kind of "mobilizer" (similar to
Volantis one), that get xhtml code, device info and serves content
adapted for it. This would require code analisys to "discover" what is
a menu, main content, etc.

Just some ideas ;-)

[1] http://www.w3.org/Mobile
[2] http://wurfl.sf.net
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UAProf

--
J. Manrique López de la Fuente
http://www.jsmanrique.net
msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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