Re: HXD8?
On Thu, 2007-05-24 at 17:21 -0500, chris s wrote: > I've been following the openmoko project since december and eagerly > awaiting my phone :-) Anywhile while looking at the archives for > some of the other openmoko lists,such as kernel, there is several > refrences to an HXD8. Is this a new openmoko-based device in > development? Possibly with a faster cpu?? :-) Can anyone in the know > shed some light? Hehe...well it's about time you guys start asking questions about this device ;-) I can't tell you specifics about the end use at this point, but most all the hardware support is ready. Feel free to look around. -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS Navigation Software (roadster)
Thomas Gstädtner wrote: Hello, several times there was the question about (free) navigation software for OpenMoko. I found an possible alternative to gpsdrive: roadster [1] It seems that it is in a relatively early stage and I couldn't test it, but it looks nice. I also don't know what kind of maps can be used. Currently it uses a mysql database (don't know for what), maybe this should be replaced through sqlite for OM. Maybe someone wants to test the software and contact the developer. Greets, thomasg [1] http://roadsterproject.wordpress.com/about/ if it's not already there, you should investigate using openstreetmap's data ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 vs Future OpenMoko Devices - whats a buyer to do?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've not seen any of these devices except in the photos, and I've not seen any video/screen capture of the software in its current state. I understand that this is a first-generation device, and that when the Neo1973 is released that FIC will also be releasing a few additional 'secret' devices. :) If this first-generation phone isn't ready for general use, what is the expected timeline for the next round of devices? Will the second or third generation devices be far superior to the first generation? Or can I expect The idea is for the hardware to be completely ready for general use. However, it won't have wifi. The next release, in a couple of months or so will. The software is a completely seperate question - if you buy the one that's soon to be released, you will be able to install the 'release' software on it when the later hardware is released. running new software on old devices is "likely" (backward compatibility), but its a mistake if it holds back progress. running old software on new devices is "nice to have", but not necessary in an open/free device. In any case, simultaneous GSM + WiFi should work (can you say "stompbox"?) Simultaneous BT + WiFi doesn't, except where you're either a) willing to put up with the interferce b) running a device where the manufacturer had a clue, and has wired the BT & WiFi chipsets to have either not transmit when the other is receiving a packet. (As an optimization, you only have to do this when the WiFi device is running in the 2.4GHz band.) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: First impressions of Neo1973
On May 25, 2007, at 9:01 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 25 May 2007 13:37, Sven Neuhaus wrote: The software seems a lot worse than the hardware at the moment. Every reaction to user input is slow. The GUI is quite pretty but the speed is worrysome. What CPU is going to be in the upcoming faster version? I would not be surprised to hear the emphasis is on the hardware, as sofware can be field-upgraded and customized, the hardware cannot. Perhaps not the best example, but a similar thing happened/is happening to the GP2X linux mobile gaming console, the hardware differences among production runs were not that much different, software OTOH improved quite a bit compared to the not really impressive first releases. As I said, not really surprising in There is a small core team at the moment that's working on the 'vital' phone applications. The problems with speed are not inherent - simply that very little work has gone in to optimising the existing software, most work is going into adding essential features, and moving on to new broken bits as soon as it works, even though it may not be as fast as would be liked. Let me also add that the reason the hardware is getting better faster now is because the coreteam is working on the hardware. At the expense, of the software ;-) Once we get this hardware shipping we can finally all concentrate more time again on software. -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS Navigation Software (roadster)
Hey Koen pointed out today that maemo-mapper has a non-hildon port. Maemo-mapper totally rocks already so it would be a great one to work with. http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/?action=details&pnm=maemo-mapper-nohildon Brad ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS Navigation Software (roadster)
I also noted roadster as a possible basis for an openmoko based navigation package, however roadnav(http://roadnav.sourceforge.net/) seemed quite a lot farther along. It uses wxwidgets, which we don't support yet giving us two possible routes of attack: 1) create a openmoko target for wxwidgets (some interest has been expressed in this endever) 2) Just use the base library(LibRoadnav) for our own application. I'm very interested in getting involved in the development of a navigation app, so please keep me informed about your thoughts/progress. -Will On 5/25/07, Thomas Gstädtner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello, several times there was the question about (free) navigation software for OpenMoko. I found an possible alternative to gpsdrive: roadster [1] It seems that it is in a relatively early stage and I couldn't test it, but it looks nice. I also don't know what kind of maps can be used. Currently it uses a mysql database (don't know for what), maybe this should be replaced through sqlite for OM. Maybe someone wants to test the software and contact the developer. Greets, thomasg [1] http://roadsterproject.wordpress.com/about/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GPS Navigation Software (roadster)
Hello, several times there was the question about (free) navigation software for OpenMoko. I found an possible alternative to gpsdrive: roadster [1] It seems that it is in a relatively early stage and I couldn't test it, but it looks nice. I also don't know what kind of maps can be used. Currently it uses a mysql database (don't know for what), maybe this should be replaced through sqlite for OM. Maybe someone wants to test the software and contact the developer. Greets, thomasg [1] http://roadsterproject.wordpress.com/about/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: First impressions of Neo1973
There is a small core team at the moment that's working on the 'vital' phone applications. The problems with speed are not inherent - simply that very little work has gone in to optimising the existing software, most work is going into adding essential features, and moving on to new broken bits as soon as it works, even though it may not be as fast as would be liked. I for one would call this a feature: if there was nothing left to improve... what would be the fun in buying one? and the more optimised it gets, the smaller the group which can make improvements (after a point you just really have to know the quirks of the SoC). Personally, I think this is the best news I've heard yet. -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 vs Future OpenMoko Devices - whats a buyer to do?
> When the WiFi is released, I assume the GA version, will the Neo be able > to to Wifi & GSM simultaneously? I'm leaning to say yes but pose the > questino to be sure. Logic could be to be calling someone using a BT > headset and looking at a web page or doing a corporate app via the net > simultaneously. Yes, it can. Well - there is no especial reason to, so I can't imagine it would. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Re[4]: Pretty UI for OpenMoko
> >>> I have estimated memory bandwidth in following way: >>> >>> 480 (width) * >>> 640 (height) * >>> 3 (bytes per pixel, not sure) * >> It's 2 >>> 25 (fps) == 2304 bytes/s (22Mb/s) >>> >> 60 fps however. > > What kind of FPS is that 60? Display refresh rate? Yes, the native refresh of the LCD is 60Hz. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 vs Future OpenMoko Devices - whats a buyer to do?
When the WiFi is released, I assume the GA version, will the Neo be able to to Wifi & GSM simultaneously? I'm leaning to say yes but pose the questino to be sure. Logic could be to be calling someone using a BT headset and looking at a web page or doing a corporate app via the net simultaneously. Rich On Fri, 2007-05-25 at 19:48 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I've not seen any of these devices except in the photos, and I've not seen > > any video/screen capture of the software in its current state. I > > understand > > that this is a first-generation device, and that when the Neo1973 is > > released that FIC will also be releasing a few additional 'secret' > > devices. > > :) > > > > If this first-generation phone isn't ready for general use, what is the > > expected timeline for the next round of devices? Will the second or third > > generation devices be far superior to the first generation? Or can I > > expect > > The idea is for the hardware to be completely ready for general use. > However, it won't have wifi. > The next release, in a couple of months or so will. > The software is a completely seperate question - if you buy the one that's > soon to be released, you will be able to install the 'release' software on > it when the later hardware is released. > > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- GPG/PGP Key Id: 1B257AEC from pgp.mit.edu Remember, all Windows machines are, by definition, fault tolerant. They run Windows don't they!! signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re[4]: Pretty UI for OpenMoko
>> I have estimated memory bandwidth in following way: >> >> 480 (width) * >> 640 (height) * >> 3 (bytes per pixel, not sure) * > It's 2 >> 25 (fps) == 2304 bytes/s (22Mb/s) >> > 60 fps however. What kind of FPS is that 60? Display refresh rate? > 640*480*2*2 - the last two is because you may have to read/write. Heh, forgot about reading =)) =#=-===-===#=--- - -- -=#=-- - - - - Best regards, Denis ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Re[2]: Pretty UI for OpenMoko
>>> Hi! >>> >>> Are there ideas of creating TWUIK-like motion/transition engine for >>> OpenMoko? This feature would be great for consumer product. For example >>> compare UIs of Nokia 6230 and SonyEricsson K750... > >> There is no blitter on the neo1973, so moving or transforming >> full-screen >> windows is quite expensive in software. >> For example, 72 megabytes/second or so memory bandwidth can be needed > > I have estimated memory bandwidth in following way: > > 480 (width) * > 640 (height) * > 3 (bytes per pixel, not sure) * It's 2 > 25 (fps) == 2304 bytes/s (22Mb/s) > 60 fps however. 640*480*2*2 - the last two is because you may have to read/write. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 vs Future OpenMoko Devices - whats a buyer to do?
> I've not seen any of these devices except in the photos, and I've not seen > any video/screen capture of the software in its current state. I > understand > that this is a first-generation device, and that when the Neo1973 is > released that FIC will also be releasing a few additional 'secret' > devices. > :) > > If this first-generation phone isn't ready for general use, what is the > expected timeline for the next round of devices? Will the second or third > generation devices be far superior to the first generation? Or can I > expect The idea is for the hardware to be completely ready for general use. However, it won't have wifi. The next release, in a couple of months or so will. The software is a completely seperate question - if you buy the one that's soon to be released, you will be able to install the 'release' software on it when the later hardware is released. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Pretty UI for OpenMoko
Hi, You're saying to add transition effects to a window, which probably would not take up a whole QVGA display, at a reasonable rate of 15/frames second for a phone, will require 70mb/s of memory bandwidth? How did you calculate that? Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 8:58 AM To: Denis Parchenko Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Pretty UI for OpenMoko > Hi! > > Are there ideas of creating TWUIK-like motion/transition engine for > OpenMoko? This feature would be great for consumer product. For example > compare UIs of Nokia 6230 and SonyEricsson K750... There is no blitter on the neo1973, so moving or transforming full-screen windows is quite expensive in software. For example, 72 megabytes/second or so memory bandwidth can be needed for a full-screen move, which will be very close to what the hardware can do. Of course, maxing out the CPU for periods won't help battery life enormously. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Neo1973 vs Future OpenMoko Devices - whats a buyer to do?
I've not seen any of these devices except in the photos, and I've not seen any video/screen capture of the software in its current state. I understand that this is a first-generation device, and that when the Neo1973 is released that FIC will also be releasing a few additional 'secret' devices. :) If this first-generation phone isn't ready for general use, what is the expected timeline for the next round of devices? Will the second or third generation devices be far superior to the first generation? Or can I expect to survive with the first-generation device and be happy with semi-rapid development and release of improved software? Sorry, I don't code so I cannot help with this aspect, but if the first month of software/device use is difficult but improves rapidly, i could live with that! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re[2]: Pretty UI for OpenMoko
>> Hi! >> >> Are there ideas of creating TWUIK-like motion/transition engine for >> OpenMoko? This feature would be great for consumer product. For example >> compare UIs of Nokia 6230 and SonyEricsson K750... > There is no blitter on the neo1973, so moving or transforming full-screen > windows is quite expensive in software. > For example, 72 megabytes/second or so memory bandwidth can be needed for > a full-screen move, which will be very close to what the hardware can do. > Of course, maxing out the CPU for periods won't help battery life enormously. > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I have estimated memory bandwidth in following way: 480 (width) * 640 (height) * 3 (bytes per pixel, not sure) * 25 (fps) == 2304 bytes/s (22Mb/s) Actually, we could use only half of frames or so. I have some experiences in flash animation and I can say that removing some animation steps and making more valuable transformations in other ones looks smoothly. Of course, we need some CPU time for pixel blending and other operations. But now I can not estimate it :( BTW, what language TWUIK is written on? Is it Java? =#=-===-===#=--- - -- -=#=-- - - - - Best regards, Denis ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: First impressions of Neo1973
> On Friday 25 May 2007 13:37, Sven Neuhaus wrote: >> The software seems a lot worse than the hardware at the moment. Every >> reaction to user input is slow. The GUI is quite pretty but the speed is >> worrysome. What CPU is going to be in the upcoming faster version? > > I would not be surprised to hear the emphasis is on the hardware, as > sofware > can be field-upgraded and customized, the hardware cannot. Perhaps not the > best example, but a similar thing happened/is happening to the GP2X linux > mobile gaming console, the hardware differences among production runs were > not that much different, software OTOH improved quite a bit compared to > the > not really impressive first releases. As I said, not really surprising in There is a small core team at the moment that's working on the 'vital' phone applications. The problems with speed are not inherent - simply that very little work has gone in to optimising the existing software, most work is going into adding essential features, and moving on to new broken bits as soon as it works, even though it may not be as fast as would be liked. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Pretty UI for OpenMoko
> Hi! > > Are there ideas of creating TWUIK-like motion/transition engine for > OpenMoko? This feature would be great for consumer product. For example > compare UIs of Nokia 6230 and SonyEricsson K750... There is no blitter on the neo1973, so moving or transforming full-screen windows is quite expensive in software. For example, 72 megabytes/second or so memory bandwidth can be needed for a full-screen move, which will be very close to what the hardware can do. Of course, maxing out the CPU for periods won't help battery life enormously. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS - PMB 2520
> Does anyone know if the PMB 2520 GPS chip does true GPS calculations > (with correlator) or does it only do Assisted GPS (A-GPS) ??? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hardware:AGPS ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: First impressions of Neo1973
On Friday 25 May 2007 13:37, Sven Neuhaus wrote: > The software seems a lot worse than the hardware at the moment. Every > reaction to user input is slow. The GUI is quite pretty but the speed is > worrysome. What CPU is going to be in the upcoming faster version? I would not be surprised to hear the emphasis is on the hardware, as sofware can be field-upgraded and customized, the hardware cannot. Perhaps not the best example, but a similar thing happened/is happening to the GP2X linux mobile gaming console, the hardware differences among production runs were not that much different, software OTOH improved quite a bit compared to the not really impressive first releases. As I said, not really surprising in a homebrew target audience. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GPS - PMB 2520
Does anyone know if the PMB 2520 GPS chip does true GPS calculations (with correlator) or does it only do Assisted GPS (A-GPS) ??? Thanks, Brendan. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: First impressions of Neo1973
Hello, last night at the Braunschweig LUG I had the opportunity to play with a Neo1973 myself and I'd like to share some impressions. The hardware is very nice. The black material of the black/silver model has a rubbery feel to it. The phone is large, but it's not as bad as I had feared. It's thinner than a Sony Ericsson P800. The screen is excellent. The software seems a lot worse than the hardware at the moment. Every reaction to user input is slow. The GUI is quite pretty but the speed is worrysome. What CPU is going to be in the upcoming faster version? I published some pictures of the phase0/1 phones at http://flickr.com/photos/lorphos/sets/72157600262308147/ -Sven ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Pretty UI for OpenMoko
Hi! Are there ideas of creating TWUIK-like motion/transition engine for OpenMoko? This feature would be great for consumer product. For example compare UIs of Nokia 6230 and SonyEricsson K750... =#=-===-===#=--- - -- -=#=-- - - - - Best regards, Denis ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
