Re: Phone Call Security
su, 2007-06-03 kello 07:08 +0200, Ortwin Regel kirjoitti: IIRC there has been lots of discussion about this a few months back. Take a look at the mailing list archives or the wiki if you can find it! Spesifically, see subjects Voice over GPRS? and Encrypting voice communications in the February archive page at http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/thread.html Summary: Possible to code support for this using GSM data calls (not GSM voice calls due to GSM chip restrictions), which come with the quality of service GPRS lacks. May cost a bit extra depending on your provider. Compatibility with cryptophone.de probably possible, since their protocol seems to be up for reimplementation. Either way, at least Moko-to-Moko encrypted calls are quite possible to implement, just that somebody (TM) needs to do the work. -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Any updates?? now that we have passed the original date for the second test production run.
Hi, On 5/31/07, Alan Ide [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am still waiting on baited breathe for news. I know that the original test run that was slated for a couple weeks ago got pushed back, but what about the second run that was supposed to happen. How did the run go (if there has been a run yet). More problems? What about the phase 1+ specs?? Basically, any news?? Some updates here. http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/06/02#20070602-busy-busy-busy Reggies. -- Aanjhan -- a.k.a Tuxmaniac Locations: #ubuntu-in, #linux-india, #gnu-india @irc.freenode.net CyberHome: http://www.tuxmaniac.com -- -- Aanjhan -- a.k.a Tuxmaniac Locations: #ubuntu-in, #linux-india, #gnu-india @irc.freenode.net CyberHome: http://www.tuxmaniac.com -- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Phone Call Security
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:community- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mikko Rauhala Sent: Sunday, 3 June 2007 9:09 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Phone Call Security Either way, at least Moko-to-Moko encrypted calls are quite possible to implement, just that somebody (TM) needs to do the work. -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I'll repeat this again - if you use an IAX2 softphone with an asterisk server in the middle there is no work required. Asterisk already has end to end encryption built in as standard. But as you said this is only if your gprs have sufficient bandwidth (and I'm certainly not sure the Neo cpu has enough horsepower either). Cheers, Dean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Neo1973 Update!
Hi list, I got some news to share with you. As of Mickey's OpenMoko-talk at the Berliner LinuxTag (LinuxDay) there are some new hardware information: Phase 2 (GTA-02) will feature: -a 2D/3D-Graphics Accelerator -256MByte of Flash Memory -WiFi -updated battery: 1700mAh And the finally thing everybody has been asking for: 2 Accelerometers. F**k yeah. Looking forward to it. (Has anyone heard any updates concerning possible multi-touch-abilities of the neo yet?) Additional IRC-info I got: :) [16:14:29] Elrond ... is GTA02's gsm module now connected to the PMU, so that we have full control over the GSM? [16:14:29] stefan_schmidt Elrond: yes [16:14:29] stefan_schmidt Elrond: We can fully shutdown GSM [16:14:29] mickey|berlin that, and we can finally measure the current [16:14:29] mickey|berlin no more uncontrolled sucking from the battery [16:14:29] mickey|berlin at least we know how much pwr we consume then (via [EMAIL PROTECTED]) tim/minime ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Neo1973 Update!
... so excited that I completly forgot to give you my source: http://sicherheitsschwankung.de/gallery/v/openmoko/IMG_8662-slide.JPG.html tim/minime ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Update!
Phase 2 (GTA-02) will feature: -a 2D/3D-Graphics Accelerator -256MByte of Flash Memory -WiFi -updated battery: 1700mAh oh ye flippin gods! yes, now we are talking phone! im seriously looking forward to seeing what people can make of this device :D ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Update!
Samsung S3C2442/400 does 400 mHz, right? That almost beats the ancient and huge PC I am typing this on right now. (Just 50 mHz short). And if we count bluetooth, touch screen and form factor, that PC is now useless except as a file server! (Well, assuming the graphics accelerator is nice. It could be neat to operate a program like Wings3D on there). As for multitouch... unless it can be done without much added cost, I for one see little benefit. How practical is it, really, to use more than one finger on a screen of this size? It is a neat idea for gestures, but beyond that there is not much. Okay, I'll admit that my opinion would immediately change with the inclusion of multitouch, but for now there is a way to cope with not having it :) Thanks for the update! Bye, -Dylan McCall On 6/3/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi list, I got some news to share with you. As of Mickey's OpenMoko-talk at the Berliner LinuxTag (LinuxDay) there are some new hardware information: Phase 2 (GTA-02) will feature: -a 2D/3D-Graphics Accelerator -256MByte of Flash Memory -WiFi -updated battery: 1700mAh And the finally thing everybody has been asking for: 2 Accelerometers. F**k yeah. Looking forward to it. (Has anyone heard any updates concerning possible multi-touch-abilities of the neo yet?) Additional IRC-info I got: :) [16:14:29] Elrond ... is GTA02's gsm module now connected to the PMU, so that we have full control over the GSM? [16:14:29] stefan_schmidt Elrond: yes [16:14:29] stefan_schmidt Elrond: We can fully shutdown GSM [16:14:29] mickey|berlin that, and we can finally measure the current [16:14:29] mickey|berlin no more uncontrolled sucking from the battery [16:14:29] mickey|berlin at least we know how much pwr we consume then (via [EMAIL PROTECTED]) tim/minime ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Phone Call Security
Encrypted voice calls is a question that's been around for a while. When I worked for RSA and later Certicom, we had frequent discussions about the strength (or lack thereof) of the LFSR-based encryption that was then in frequent use in GSM phones. I should probably mention that GSM and CDMA provide over the air authentication and confidentiality services. So if you're worried about bad guys cloning or eavesdropping on your phone calls (or text messages), you're safe already. Now... if your definition of bad guys includes the people who have operational control over the GSM network, then the story gets a little more complicated. Now, before you start saying, oh, Matt's just being paranoid or oh, Matt's going to say something that will help the terrorists, let me just remind you that outside the US, there's some pretty clear evidence that national governments are eavesdropping on the conversations of traveling tech company executives and passing economic intelligence along to competing companies in their own nations. So end-to-end encryption is an issue that's near and dear not only to the hearts of the bleeding heart liberals at the EFF, but also the uber-industrialists of the far right. End to end security is the term used to describe confidentiality and origin integrity services that provide assurance that the two endpoints in a communication are a) really talking to the person they think they're talking to, and b) the content of the call is not being intercepted by a malicious eavesdropper. This is distinct from the existing GSM security services which protect only the over the air portion of the comm link. Approaches to end to end security on GSM phones started with layering voice data over the GSM data channel. There are some significant issues with this approach. First is obviously that you've got to have a phone that can be programmed to channel encrypted voice data across the GSM data channel. But, this message is going out to a community that groks this concept, so the only thing I'll say is... if we do something like this, let's fully specify what we do so people working on other programmable phones can interoperate with us. Next is the issue of carrier support. I don't know if it's still an issue, but in the olden days it seemed that Cingular required you to call them up and explicitly activate your GSM data line. Then at the end of the month, they would turn it off requiring you to call up and get it activated again. But that's less of an issue these days as we move into an era where we have EDGE now and HSDPA on the horizon. But... the issue of latency is important. The GSM data channel has terrible latency characteristics. Products like the CryptoPhone (http://cryptophone.de/ ) suffer from this. If your latency is too high, the delay makes a normal conversation virtually impossible. You wind up having to say over after each thing you say to tell the other person it's okay for them to speak. This is okay if you're a whacked out cypherpunk who gets off on acting like a spy, but having been in the military already, it's just annoying for me to have a half duplex channel. EDGE latency characteristics can be better than GSM data, but there's a fair amount of variability in EDGE latency. Sometimes it's high, sometimes it's low. Ditto for EVDO. A couple years ago Nick Lane-Smith gave a presentation at DefCon about doing putting encrypted voice over data over GSM voice. More info at: http://www.hbmobile.org/wiki/index.php?title=Data_over_GSM_Voice The last I heard about this project, they discovered they couldn't get enough throughput to maintain a voice channel, encrypted or otherwise. All this and we haven't even talked about SIP over DTLS and SRTP... -Cheers -Matt H. On Jun 3, 2007, at 6:08 AM, Mikko Rauhala wrote: su, 2007-06-03 kello 07:08 +0200, Ortwin Regel kirjoitti: IIRC there has been lots of discussion about this a few months back. Take a look at the mailing list archives or the wiki if you can find it! Spesifically, see subjects Voice over GPRS? and Encrypting voice communications in the February archive page at http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/ thread.html Summary: Possible to code support for this using GSM data calls (not GSM voice calls due to GSM chip restrictions), which come with the quality of service GPRS lacks. May cost a bit extra depending on your provider. Compatibility with cryptophone.de probably possible, since their protocol seems to be up for reimplementation. Either way, at least Moko-to-Moko encrypted calls are quite possible to implement, just that somebody (TM) needs to do the work. -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[Fwd: Re: Neo1973 Update!]
An one more thing.. Is there a camera for the phone too? Just because I saw on the Samsung's website that it has a camera support: Camera Interface supporting up to 4096 x 4096 resolution (2048 x 2048 pixel input support for scaling) http://www.samsung.com/products/semiconductor/MobileSoC/ApplicationProcessor/ARM9Series/SC32442/SC32442.htm Dan On 6/3/07, kenneth marken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Phase 2 (GTA-02) will feature: -a 2D/3D-Graphics Accelerator -256MByte of Flash Memory -WiFi -updated battery: 1700mAh oh ye flippin gods! yes, now we are talking phone! im seriously looking forward to seeing what people can make of this device :D ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community (i forwarded them both as they looked like they where aimed at the group in general rather then to me specific. note that when you hit reply it only sends to the original sender, not the group as a whole!) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[Fwd: Re: Neo1973 Update!]
3dacceleration? That means 3D desktop can be done now? Or what should we think of that? Dan On 6/3/07, kenneth marken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Phase 2 (GTA-02) will feature: -a 2D/3D-Graphics Accelerator -256MByte of Flash Memory -WiFi -updated battery: 1700mAh oh ye flippin gods! yes, now we are talking phone! im seriously looking forward to seeing what people can make of this device :D ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Fwd: Re: Neo1973 Update!]
Hmm, does that list mean that the GTA-02 will lose the GPS and the bluetooth? Also, it would be nice to know when GTA-02 has been pushed back to. Does anyone have any information on that? Thanks. Richard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Fwd: Re: Neo1973 Update!]
Does this mean the Neo 1973 has this hardware? That would just be fantastic :) When will Phase 2 be ready? 3d desktop would be really cool too, but I think the desktop at the moment is best for such a small screen.. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Update!
Phase 2 (GTA-02) will feature: -a 2D/3D-Graphics Accelerator -256MByte of Flash Memory -WiFi -updated battery: 1700mAh That would be f%%%ing great =) And what's about price of GTA-02? =#=-===-===#=--- - -- -=#=-- - - - - Best regards, Denis ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Neo's update news...
Some interesting news about the Neo Ph.2 upgrade can be found in the video of OpenMoko presentation at Tossug. This is the URL: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8574715471341709984 Enjoy... Saluti...:) Bernardo. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Update!
Excellent news. I'm looking forward do doing development on such a rich platform, in terms of both the hardware and software. Any word on what specific chip the graphics acceleration will be? Also, I know people have been asking a lot for Wifi, which is definitely a good feature considering the Neo's competition. I'm curious if anyone has compiled a listing of the hardware spec changes into one place. I'd like to find out what the hardware revision history is like. If its on the Wiki, or somewhere obviously, I apologize in advance. Also, how open is FIC being with the hardware design? Are PCB layouts available? Thanks, ~Zack ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo's update news...
I know it's off topic, sorry. But, what the f**k is printed on that poster behind the guy talking (in the beginning)??? lol Cheers, Daniel Bernardo Pellegrini wrote: This is the URL: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8574715471341709984 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Fwd: Re: Neo1973 Update!]
No... Look at the rest ;-) That would also mean that GTA02 doesn't have a gsm-chip :-p The GTA02 part simply says what it has extra to the GTAb_v4 On 6/3/07, Richard Boehme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmm, does that list mean that the GTA-02 will lose the GPS and the bluetooth? Also, it would be nice to know when GTA-02 has been pushed back to. Does anyone have any information on that? Thanks. Richard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Update!
Sounds great! Now I have to figure out if I wait for phase 2 or get a phase 1 device ASAP and upgrade later... I really need a phone NOW but I also need a phone with Wifi, Accelerometers and more raw power! B) Ortwin On 6/3/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi list, I got some news to share with you. As of Mickey's OpenMoko-talk at the Berliner LinuxTag (LinuxDay) there are some new hardware information: Phase 2 (GTA-02) will feature: -a 2D/3D-Graphics Accelerator -256MByte of Flash Memory -WiFi -updated battery: 1700mAh And the finally thing everybody has been asking for: 2 Accelerometers. F**k yeah. Looking forward to it. (Has anyone heard any updates concerning possible multi-touch-abilities of the neo yet?) Additional IRC-info I got: :) [16:14:29] Elrond ... is GTA02's gsm module now connected to the PMU, so that we have full control over the GSM? [16:14:29] stefan_schmidt Elrond: yes [16:14:29] stefan_schmidt Elrond: We can fully shutdown GSM [16:14:29] mickey|berlin that, and we can finally measure the current [16:14:29] mickey|berlin no more uncontrolled sucking from the battery [16:14:29] mickey|berlin at least we know how much pwr we consume then (via [EMAIL PROTECTED]) tim/minime ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Update!
Am Sonntag, 3. Juni 2007 17:00 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Phase 2 (GTA-02) will feature: -a 2D/3D-Graphics Accelerator This one needs more clarification. I doubt that it will be some ATI chipset. Oleg. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo's update news...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: I know it's off topic, sorry. But, what the f**k is printed on that poster behind the guy talking (in the beginning)??? lol http://www.lasaveurdelapasteque.com/movhd.html Regards Peter ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Update!
2007/6/3, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Phase 2 (GTA-02) will feature: -a 2D/3D-Graphics Accelerator -256MByte of Flash Memory -WiFi -updated battery: 1700mAh Well, GTA-01 is now definitely dead on arrival. Without finished software is hasn't any chance. My bet: it won't be sold at all, nobody would buy it now. GTA-02 will be the first model on sale. Am I correct? -- Tomek Z. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Update!
2007/6/3, Tomasz Zielinski [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 2007/6/3, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Phase 2 (GTA-02) will feature: -a 2D/3D-Graphics Accelerator -256MByte of Flash Memory -WiFi -updated battery: 1700mAh Well, GTA-01 is now definitely dead on arrival. Without finished software is hasn't any chance. My bet: it won't be sold at all, nobody would buy it now. GTA-02 will be the first model on sale. Am I correct? It's not correct. Harald Welte's blog [1] from yesterday says The first couple of hundred GTA01Bv4 phnes have been produced by the FIC's mass production factory in mainland china. I'll personally do QA on 10% of those phones throughout the second week of June. We want to make sure we don't have any mishaps with our first customers, do we? Hans [1] http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/06/02/#20070602-busy-busy-busyhttp://gnumonks.org/%7Elaforge/weblog/2007/06/02/#20070602-busy-busy-busy ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Update!
Developers, developers, developers!!! (Steve Balmer style, if you know what I mean). It will be a while for GTA_02 to come out. The GTA_01 batch will probably be sold to (community)developers. Hardware will of course be continually upgraded, but you have to start somewere with the software. There has been much talk on this list for a discount on the GTA-02 device, if you already bought a gta-01. Remember: The first GTA-02 samples have just hit the FIC office in Taiwan. It will be a while until they will be massproduced. These are just the prototypes. On 6/3/07, Tomasz Zielinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2007/6/3, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Phase 2 (GTA-02) will feature: -a 2D/3D-Graphics Accelerator -256MByte of Flash Memory -WiFi -updated battery: 1700mAh Well, GTA-01 is now definitely dead on arrival. Without finished software is hasn't any chance. My bet: it won't be sold at all, nobody would buy it now. GTA-02 will be the first model on sale. Am I correct? -- Tomek Z. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Update!
Well, GTA-01 is now definitely dead on arrival. Without finished software is hasn't any chance. My bet: it won't be sold at all, nobody would buy it now. GTA-02 will be the first model on sale. Am I correct? Not a chance. It's a common mistake (sometimes called The Osborne Mistake after Osborne self-cannibalized (around 1982) by releasing upgrade specs for a future machine that they didn't survive long enough to sell) but it isn't one that applies here: * the GTA-01 is late enough that noone is going to expect the GTA-02 before 2008 (or maybe 2009 :-} ) * the market for the early-adopter -01 wasn't that big anyway, and they'll probably still sell every unit they make, because they haven't made that many - but they'll sell to the right people to make the next models more interesting to the broader audience * people we trust on this list have been very forthcoming about the process (after all, if we *didn't* expect a much improved GTA-02 why would anyone take the GTA-01 seriously as a platform?) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Any updates?? now that we have passed the original date for the second test production run.
On 6/4/07, Aanjhan R [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some updates here. http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/06/02#20070602-busy-busy-busy70 Reggies. -- Aanjhan this is not a complaint as such, but the statement I can't publicly state what's going on with regard to OpenMoko internally from the gnumonks.org link given by aanjhan, i find slightly odd. as this is an open project, community supported, shouldn't all things openmoko also be open? after all, we are the openmoko development team? apologies if you're referring to things internal to FIC, i must have misunderstood the meaning ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Update!
On 6/3/07, Tomasz Zielinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Well, GTA-01 is now definitely dead on arrival. Without finished software is hasn't any chance. My bet: it won't be sold at all, nobody would buy it now. GTA-02 will be the first model on sale. /snip Actually, I think this is great news for developers... personally, I was a little worried about getting my own phone since so many power users would be vying for them... what the openmoko team has done is created a great base platform for the developers to start working on, and given those power users something to hold out for... and this means less competition for the p1 phones for those of us that are going to be making the system software work for the rest of the community... Sean... you rock! -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Phone Call Security
Matthew S. Hamrick wrote: terrorists, let me just remind you that outside the US, there's some pretty clear evidence that national governments are eavesdropping on the conversations of traveling tech company executives and passing economic intelligence along to competing companies in their own nations. So somehow you can add the US to the list, as they'll do anything to help boeing against airbus (and probably a slew of other cases)... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
