Re: Hooks in Base Code

[Kero van Gelder]

>> 1) How would you put that
>>in an engine? Where does all the relevant info come from?
>> 2) Then build aan interface to allow an end-user to create such rules.
>> 3) And finally do something trivial with dbus,
>>commandline (or even XML...) to play the appropriate ringtone. and show
>>an Pickup/Cancel pair of buttons.
>
> there was some talk about this back in january or so... it got even more
> involved than that: if the addressbook says I'm supposed to be sleeping, 
> but
> the lights are on (maybe later we'll have an ambient light sensor) there's
> lots of noise, the GPS shows I'm at a club, and the accelerometers detect
> movement (those are going to be so cool)  I'm probably not sleeping, go
> ahead and ring (is it too tacky to list attendees for "sleeping" maybe you
> don't want it to ring, but anyways)

Fun, I'll dig in the archives :)

> the talk kind of centered around a nodeset somewhere in the filesystem, but
> from what I've seen on dbus that might be a better solution.  basically, 
> you
> create a group of modules, each of which is queried for a result... then
> each contact is matched against a set of rules based on the set of results.

A module / rule hierarchy. Would that fit the exception-on-exception kind
of rules we've been mentioning? I guess it could/

> on call importance, you can also list call frequency for the contact (I.E.
> if john calls me 3 times in 5 minutes, it's probably something important...
> ring on the third attempt)

oh, greylisting :)

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Re: Neo1973 Arrived 7.17.07

[Jonas Berlin]

Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
> mokoNinja writes:
>> Our Neos have FINALLY arrived at FIC America headquarters.  We are  
>> now ready to ship.
>> Thanks to FICA for the confirmation pictures:
>>
>> http://people.openmoko.org/ninjutsu/NeoArrived.mp4
>> or
>> http://youtube.com/watch?v=Dsvyr656c78
> 
> Whoo hoo!  This is great!

Cool stuff! :)

-- 
- xkr47

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Re: Hooks in Base Code

[Jim McDonald]

Doug Jones wrote:

Take a look at EToys.


[...]

That's certainly a style of GUI that could be applied to the hooks if 
required, although at current I'm more concerned about the ability for 
the hooks to exist than the specifics of how they would be configured.


Cheers,
Jim.


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Re: Hooks in Base Code

[Jim McDonald]

Anton Afanasyev wrote:

I am not entirely sure if I'm thinking straight, but here's my take on
customizing functionality of the OpenMoko:
say, when a call comes in, the appropriate module detects that, gets
the caller ID if possible, maybe other info (such as the contact info
associated with it, if any), and then theres a few things that happen:
there could be a config file somewhere that defines a number of
'pre-processing' libraries for the call (or maybe jsut allow one such
library), which exports certain functions, such as IncomingCall([some
call info here]). Well, OpenMoko would call those functions, and the
library(ies) would output some result, such as RejectCall,
SendToVoiceMail, PlayAutomaticAnswer, etc.
Basically, what I am getting at is that instead of changing the whole
OS/kernel to support these functions, it would be possible to write a
simple library, and then those libraries would process calls, GPS
location changes, etc.


Yep that's roughly what I'm talking about but we need the base code to 
be set up such that it will make those calls and pay attention to the 
results, which is the main thrust of my argument.



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Re: Hooks in Base Code

[Jim McDonald]

Giles Jones wrote:


On 18 Jul 2007, at 23:57, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:



Note that dbus is already a part of openmoko.


Ah, always thought DBUS was some sort of HAL. But on close inspection 
it's a bit like DCOP which is very powerful.


All that's needed is a nice interface to configure the actions then.
You could use dbus as the IPC but that doesn't obviate the need to do 
the rest of the work for the hooks.  All relevant processes need to call 
relevant methods at the right times and wait for the results.  In 
addition, those relevant methods should all go to a single 'add-ons 
manager' that handles registration of these modules, holds (and allows 
modification of) configuration information and handles areas such as 
chaining.  It would be responsible for calling a method on each module 
separately, in the right order and returning the correct final result.  
It would also need to handle administrative issues such as timeouts.


So although I agree that you could use dbus it doesn't solve the problem 
all by itself.  Plus of course the major thing that you need is from the 
base code is to have the appropriate dbus methods in place.


Cheers,
Jim.

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Re: Unusual Bluetooth Gadgets?

[Mark Eichin]

Jeff Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I was thinking this phone has so many possibilities, and one of them is neat
> bluetooth gadgets we could make use of.  But searching I don't see a lot of
> innovative bluetooth gadgets to buy.

It's a hugely complicated addition to any "gadget".  Heck, you can't
even get a usb-keyboard to bluetooth adapter, and that's not even a
little bit innovative...

> Has anyone seen a small bluetooth camera you can wear on your lapel?  Even if
> it was the size of a bluetooth earpiece, it would work as a piece of jewelry
> on a collar.

Not enough bandwidth.

> And is there a small bluetooth microphone suitable on a lapel as well, for
> recording those interviews?  Instead of picking up just your voice via bone
> conduction or some such it picks up the audio from in front of you with a
> focused area.

That's probably easier (just take a bluetooth headset and chop it open :-)

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Re: Hooks in Base Code

[Anton Afanasyev]

I am not entirely sure if I'm thinking straight, but here's my take on
customizing functionality of the OpenMoko:
say, when a call comes in, the appropriate module detects that, gets
the caller ID if possible, maybe other info (such as the contact info
associated with it, if any), and then theres a few things that happen:
there could be a config file somewhere that defines a number of
'pre-processing' libraries for the call (or maybe jsut allow one such
library), which exports certain functions, such as IncomingCall([some
call info here]). Well, OpenMoko would call those functions, and the
library(ies) would output some result, such as RejectCall,
SendToVoiceMail, PlayAutomaticAnswer, etc.
Basically, what I am getting at is that instead of changing the whole
OS/kernel to support these functions, it would be possible to write a
simple library, and then those libraries would process calls, GPS
location changes, etc.

Of course, I'm not entirely sure if I'm right so please don't kill me
if I'm talking pants.

On 7/18/07, Doug Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Jim McDonald wrote:
> [This may have been better to post to the development list but as people
> are talking about it here I'll start here]
>
> Hi,
>A number of people have been talking about the cool things that they
> would like their 'phone to do but after spending some time looking at
> the information available so far I don't see anything that suggests the
> current codebase will allow people the freedom that they need.  If I
> take a simple example of an incoming call them some of the suggestions
> that we have seen so far to handle it include different ring tones for
> different people or groups of people, auto-handling of the call by
> sending it to voicemail or letting it through, different responses
> depending on the time of day, /etc.  /The point that I'm trying to make
> is that there are a multitude of things that you /could/ do but each
> person will have a limited number of things that they want the 'phone to
> /actually/ do.  As such, building out all of these options in to a
> single piece of code will not only be very hard to manage and maintain
> but will severely limit the ability of people to scratch their itches
> and develop code to make the 'phone do what they want it to.
>
>If the monolithic approach is out then some sort of modular approach
> is required.  The most obvious example out there today is Firefox, which
> comes in a relatively simple base configuration but provides any number
> of hooks to allow people to write their own extensions on top of the
> base code and as such to alter the functionality of the product very
> extensively.  If we want this openmoko to be as free as possible then it
> also needs to be as easy as possible for people to extend, and this is
> the most likely way of doing it.
>
>I know that there are a lot of potential problems that need to be
> addressed when building this out but if there is a vision from the start
> as to how this would work then it would go a long way to making the
> final product the 'phone that we are all dreaming of, regardless of the
> fact that those dreams are often divergent from others if not totally
> exclusive.  So my questions are there plans to include these hooks, and
> if not can it be considered?
>
>Or is there another way to do this other than hooks?
>
> Cheers,
> Jim.
>


Take a look at EToys.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EToys_%28Programming_Language%29

[whoa, that article doesn't even mention OLPC, gotta go edit that]

and look at these "tiles":

http://community.ofset.org/wiki/En-Presentation_of_Squeak_Visuals-Toys

Now, imagine a tile that looks like a Neo.  It represents the GSM
transceiver and modem that lives inside the physical Neo.

It has a mike at the bottom and a little speaker at the top.  Those are
the hooks  --  you connect them with little lines to the connectors on
other tiles.  It has other hooks too, for the other signals that go in
and out, like Caller ID and ring signals and such.

Of course you have a whole lot of tiles, for sound recorders and sound
players and GPS receivers and WiFi and Bluetooth and everything else you
can think of.  And all that math and program control stuff too.

You just program your Neo to do whatever you want it to do by hooking
all these tiles together.

Now most people wouldn't have a clue how to do such a thing, including a
lot of us old fogeys around here, but if the OLPC people get their way
millions of children will be learning how to do exactly that Real Soon
Now.  They will even have the same set of tiles on their little laptops.

And in a few years tens of millions of children will be doing it.  And
then, maybe, hundreds of millions.

Pretty much anything they can do in their XOs can also be done in a Neo.
  And anything they create will work in a Neo too, and it doesn't even
have to be ported.  EToys runs on Squeak, and Squeak runs bit
identically on so many different platforms that it

Re: Support for Left handers

[Mark Eichin]

Gilles Casse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Le dimanche 15 juillet 2007 à 20:43 +0100, Giles Jones a écrit :
>> I don't think the visually impaired would be able to use the device  
>> anyway.
>> 
>
> It is not obvious, but I am confident that with good willing people it
> will become a reality.

The touchscreen is more of a problem than anything else; a friend of
mine uses a Nokia with some Symbian app that speaks the UI and SMSes,
and he can feel the keys just fine... if the wheel can be clicked too,
that might be enough, maybe.

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Re: projects of interest?

[Chris Kuethe]

On 7/17/07, Daniel Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

What are the projects of interest for people?


Related to the idea of a Call Firewall

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Preferences#Call_Firewall
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:ANARM

The usual per-caller ringers would be nice to have, of course.

Because I'm such a miserable, antisocial hermit, I'd like to have a
mini-IVR on my phone to do something like an audio captcha /
challenge-response spam filter.

Unknown caller, phone says: "take the top number on the left side of
your keypad, add the middle number of the middle row, and enter the
result"

Annoying caller, phone says: "Sorry, the voice mailbox beloinging to
 is full and cannot accept new messages. Goodbye.
*hangs up*"

Don't feel like talking right now? send "ATH" to the modem, the gsm
call will be dropped, caller is directed to telco's voicemail and you
can make outgoing calls... at least that's how it works on my RAZR

Regex matching would be nice - calls matching a name, or a range of
numbers, or some other attribute can be handled internally

Of course, while the phone is playing IVR, you can't be making phone
calls and you're using airtime and batteries...

--
GDB has a 'break' feature; why doesn't it have 'fix' too?

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Unusual Bluetooth Gadgets?

[Jeff Rush]

I was thinking this phone has so many possibilities, and one of them is neat
bluetooth gadgets we could make use of.  But searching I don't see a lot of
innovative bluetooth gadgets to buy.

Has anyone seen a small bluetooth camera you can wear on your lapel?  Even if
it was the size of a bluetooth earpiece, it would work as a piece of jewelry
on a collar.

And is there a small bluetooth microphone suitable on a lapel as well, for
recording those interviews?  Instead of picking up just your voice via bone
conduction or some such it picks up the audio from in front of you with a
focused area.

Maybe I don't hang out on the right gadget website.

-Jeff

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Re: this phone, with WiFi

[Jeff Rush]

Doug Jones wrote:
> Well, here is a single part that would make it much easier to try out
> WiFi antennas, other kinds of antennas, all kinds of random hardware...
> 
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:ExpansionSpacer

A very cool idea - I'd love to have one or two of those, for up to US$30 each!
 They'd be great for research data collection devices and such where
fashionable small is not a prerequisite.

-Jeff


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Re: Hooks in Base Code

[Doug Jones]

Jim McDonald wrote:
[This may have been better to post to the development list but as people 
are talking about it here I'll start here]


Hi,
   A number of people have been talking about the cool things that they 
would like their 'phone to do but after spending some time looking at 
the information available so far I don't see anything that suggests the 
current codebase will allow people the freedom that they need.  If I 
take a simple example of an incoming call them some of the suggestions 
that we have seen so far to handle it include different ring tones for 
different people or groups of people, auto-handling of the call by 
sending it to voicemail or letting it through, different responses 
depending on the time of day, /etc.  /The point that I'm trying to make 
is that there are a multitude of things that you /could/ do but each 
person will have a limited number of things that they want the 'phone to 
/actually/ do.  As such, building out all of these options in to a 
single piece of code will not only be very hard to manage and maintain 
but will severely limit the ability of people to scratch their itches 
and develop code to make the 'phone do what they want it to.


   If the monolithic approach is out then some sort of modular approach 
is required.  The most obvious example out there today is Firefox, which 
comes in a relatively simple base configuration but provides any number 
of hooks to allow people to write their own extensions on top of the 
base code and as such to alter the functionality of the product very 
extensively.  If we want this openmoko to be as free as possible then it 
also needs to be as easy as possible for people to extend, and this is 
the most likely way of doing it.


   I know that there are a lot of potential problems that need to be 
addressed when building this out but if there is a vision from the start 
as to how this would work then it would go a long way to making the 
final product the 'phone that we are all dreaming of, regardless of the 
fact that those dreams are often divergent from others if not totally 
exclusive.  So my questions are there plans to include these hooks, and 
if not can it be considered?


   Or is there another way to do this other than hooks?

Cheers,
Jim.




Take a look at EToys.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EToys_%28Programming_Language%29

[whoa, that article doesn't even mention OLPC, gotta go edit that]

and look at these "tiles":

http://community.ofset.org/wiki/En-Presentation_of_Squeak_Visuals-Toys

Now, imagine a tile that looks like a Neo.  It represents the GSM 
transceiver and modem that lives inside the physical Neo.


It has a mike at the bottom and a little speaker at the top.  Those are 
the hooks  --  you connect them with little lines to the connectors on 
other tiles.  It has other hooks too, for the other signals that go in 
and out, like Caller ID and ring signals and such.


Of course you have a whole lot of tiles, for sound recorders and sound 
players and GPS receivers and WiFi and Bluetooth and everything else you 
can think of.  And all that math and program control stuff too.


You just program your Neo to do whatever you want it to do by hooking 
all these tiles together.


Now most people wouldn't have a clue how to do such a thing, including a 
lot of us old fogeys around here, but if the OLPC people get their way 
millions of children will be learning how to do exactly that Real Soon 
Now.  They will even have the same set of tiles on their little laptops.


And in a few years tens of millions of children will be doing it.  And 
then, maybe, hundreds of millions.


Pretty much anything they can do in their XOs can also be done in a Neo. 
 And anything they create will work in a Neo too, and it doesn't even 
have to be ported.  EToys runs on Squeak, and Squeak runs bit 
identically on so many different platforms that it makes my head hurt 
just thinking about it.


So we're gonna have a whole generation of kids who are absolute masters 
of their little personal Universal Communications Platforms.  Doesn't 
matter if it's an XO or a Neo or whatever, they all work the same, 
seamlessly.  And any task they set their minds to, as long as it fits 
within the constraints of memory and CPU time and battery life, they 
will accomplish.




Never been so scared in my entire life.



Now even if only a tiny fraction of all the wondrous stuff they invent 
is useful to the rest of us, that will be a whole lot of wondrous stuff. 
 And since it's all open source, you'll just go click on a web page on 
that little screen and there it's installed.


We'll have so many choices it's bound to get confusing for a while.  And 
then Darwinian things happen and the best solutions rise to the top. 
Nobody can predict what things will look like.


Predicting what things will look like is a popular sport around here, 
and important, but it's not really what OpenMoko is about right now. 
It's about making something that wor

Re: ringtones?

[Tim Newsom]

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:02, Jeff Andros wrote:
I haven't used a mac other than casually (checking email) since os9... 
so I'm not so up on growl.  I'd like basically arbitrary code 
execution, but with some (read LOTS) of protection on how that gets 
registered (can't let Sean's dad install malware that fire off every 
time the phone rings, can we?).   I'm also still liking a shell script 
that gets fired off, yeah, it's got a bit of overhead, but if you get 
into binary programs as fast as possible, and just use the script to 
link up the purpose built programs ( I.E. the whole reason shell 
scripts exist) it might not be too bad... something to investigate I 
guess




Why not use something like a sandbox?
I found a something on sourceforge something like 
sandboxing.sourceforge.net... But basically it just prevents 
applications in the sandbox from doing things without permission.  And 
it can be set to either send an error or block and send an event to some 
queue for other action...


Seems like we can set it up so that:
The installer is trusted...
Signed applications (with approved cert) can be auto full trusted
User can choose to give trust levels if desired...
Etc..

If its flexible enough, might this (or something like it) provide some 
or most of the unauthorized program access protection we want?


--Tim
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Re: Shipping update

[Don Park]

On 7/18/07, Ian Darwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Brad Pitcher wrote:
> I'm in a similar situation, I'm leaving for OSCON on Sunday.  I will
> attend a BoF at Ubuntu Live Sunday night and another one at OSCON
Me too; I'm teaching a 4-day Linux course next week, and showing a real
phone is just somehow more convincing than holding up a printout of the


I too will be at OSCON. Is there some way a few neo1973 units could be
sold at OSCON?

Don

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Re: Hooks in Base Code

[Jeff Andros]

On 7/18/07, Kero van Gelder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Now, depending on circumstances, your Social Other, a parent or child who
needs
to see a doctor, your bank/mortgage or person that arranges something big
for
you may need to drag you out of your meeting. Some or most meetings.
Probably
not all (discussing a raise with your boss, perhaps?)

1) How would you put that
   in an engine? Where does all the relevant info come from?
2) Then build aan interface to allow an end-user to create such rules.
3) And finally do something trivial with dbus,
   commandline (or even XML...) to play the appropriate ringtone. and show
   an Pickup/Cancel pair of buttons.

> I know that the Home page on Windows Mobile Smartphone edition is just
an
> XML file which can contain links to plugins.

That's the easy part, really...

Bye,
Kero.

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there was some talk about this back in january or so... it got even more
involved than that: if the addressbook says I'm supposed to be sleeping, but
the lights are on (maybe later we'll have an ambient light sensor) there's
lots of noise, the GPS shows I'm at a club, and the accelerometers detect
movement (those are going to be so cool)  I'm probably not sleeping, go
ahead and ring (is it too tacky to list attendees for "sleeping" maybe you
don't want it to ring, but anyways)

the talk kind of centered around a nodeset somewhere in the filesystem, but
from what I've seen on dbus that might be a better solution.  basically, you
create a group of modules, each of which is queried for a result... then
each contact is matched against a set of rules based on the set of results.

on call importance, you can also list call frequency for the contact (I.E.
if john calls me 3 times in 5 minutes, it's probably something important...
ring on the third attempt)

--
Jeff
O|||O
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Re: ringtones?

[Jeff Andros]

I haven't used a mac other than casually (checking email) since os9... so
I'm not so up on growl.  I'd like basically arbitrary code execution, but
with some (read LOTS) of protection on how that gets registered (can't let
Sean's dad install malware that fire off every time the phone rings, can
we?).   I'm also still liking a shell script that gets fired off, yeah, it's
got a bit of overhead, but if you get into binary programs as fast as
possible, and just use the script to link up the purpose built programs (I.E.
the whole reason shell scripts exist) it might not be too bad... something
to investigate I guess
On 7/18/07, Giles Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



On 18 Jul 2007, at 23:39, Jeff Andros wrote:

>
>
> Maybe go one step further... set it up as an observer pattern
> inside the os.  you could build a simple GUI that wraps around it,
> but also other programs could register to be notified on a phone
> action (damn, I really need to go over the code... this might
> already be implemented) I like the idea of moving away from the
> shell for things like this, getting into faster, native code, but
> it would be really nice to be able to fall back on shell scripting
> when you need something quick and dirty... I admit to running a
> poll on www.openmoko.com the night before it went live (it was only
> every 5 minutes, and I took it down once the site changed) with a
> bash script took 5 minutes or so to write (yeah, I built a command
> line IM daemon that took up the other 3 hours or so)
>

Indeed, I'm thinking something like Growl on the Mac, but not limited
to visual notifications.

http://growl.info/screenshots.php




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--
Jeff
O|||O
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Re: Build environment with MokoMakefile on FreeBSD / amd64?

[Torfinn Ingolfsen]

On 7/19/07, Torfinn Ingolfsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

However, it won't run:
As far s I can tell, I have all needed dependcies installed,
inclunding netpbm, lynx and sdl:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] portversion -v | grep sdl
sdl-1.2.11_1,2  =  up-to-date with port
sdl_image-1.2.5_2   =  up-to-date with port

What is missing?


Okay, that was pilot error. I hadn't done 'kldload aio'.
The emulator runs now.
Sorry about the noise.
--
Regards,
Torfinn

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Re: Hooks in Base Code

[Giles Jones]

On 18 Jul 2007, at 23:57, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:



Note that dbus is already a part of openmoko.


Ah, always thought DBUS was some sort of HAL. But on close inspection  
it's a bit like DCOP which is very powerful.


All that's needed is a nice interface to configure the actions then.

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Re: Hooks in Base Code

[Kero van Gelder]

>>If the monolithic approach is out then some sort of modular approach is 
>> required.  The most obvious example out there today is Firefox, which 
>> comes in a relatively simple base configuration but provides any number of 
>> hooks to allow people to write their own extensions on top of the base 
>> code and as such to alter the functionality of the product very 
>> extensively.  If we want this openmoko to be as free as possible then it 
>> also needs to be as easy as possible for people to extend, and this is the 
>> most likely way of doing it.
>>
>>I know that there are a lot of potential problems that need to be 
>> addressed when building this out but if there is a vision from the start 
>> as to how this would work then it would go a long way to making the final 
>> product the 'phone that we are all dreaming of, regardless of the fact 
>> that those dreams are often divergent from others if not totally 
>> exclusive.  So my questions are there plans to include these hooks, and if 
>> not can it be considered?
>>
>>Or is there another way to do this other than hooks?
>
> You have to modularise and split the applications into interface and the 
> engine code as much as possible. If clever enough you could even define the 
> interface layout using definition files in XML or some other trendy file 
> format :)

There's definitely two interfaces here. One that sets up the rules/filters
to let certain things happen (John gets this ringtone, Basil shall be ignored)
and one that lets those things actually happen. The last interface is dead 
simple
compared to the first.

The engine consists of the rules. That engine is terribly complex. I need my
agenda, to see I have a meeting, so my phone will not accept calls. However,
it needs my phonebook, to see whether one of my colleagues calls me, who
*should* be in the meeting, I better take that call after all.

agenda and addressbook are available via dbus already. No point in implementing
another interface there.

Now, depending on circumstances, your Social Other, a parent or child who needs
to see a doctor, your bank/mortgage or person that arranges something big for
you may need to drag you out of your meeting. Some or most meetings. Probably
not all (discussing a raise with your boss, perhaps?)

1) How would you put that
   in an engine? Where does all the relevant info come from?
2) Then build aan interface to allow an end-user to create such rules.
3) And finally do something trivial with dbus,
   commandline (or even XML...) to play the appropriate ringtone. and show
   an Pickup/Cancel pair of buttons.

> I know that the Home page on Windows Mobile Smartphone edition is just an 
> XML file which can contain links to plugins.

That's the easy part, really...

Bye,
Kero.

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Re: Build environment with MokoMakefile on FreeBSD / amd64?

[Torfinn Ingolfsen]

Grr.. I forgot to do 'reply-all'.

-- Forwarded message --
From: Torfinn Ingolfsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Jul 19, 2007 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: Build environment with MokoMakefile on FreeBSD / amd64?
To: cedric cellier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


On 7/18/07, cedric cellier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On the same arch I just had openmoko run on qemu, following
this advice :
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:OpenMoko_under_QEMU#FreeBSD_and_last_qemu...

I don't think that helps.


Well, it helped me getting qemu (the neo1973 emulator) built, not bad at all.
However, it won't run:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] gmake run-qemu
( cd build/qemu ; arm-softmmu/qemu-system-arm \
   -M neo -m 130 -usb -show-cursor \
   -mtdblock openmoko/openmoko-flash.image \
   -kernel openmoko/openmoko-kernel.bin )
neo_gsm_switch: GSM disabled.
Bad system call (core dumped)
gmake: *** [run-qemu] Error 140

As far s I can tell, I have all needed dependcies installed,
inclunding netpbm, lynx and sdl:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] portversion -v | grep sdl
sdl-1.2.11_1,2  =  up-to-date with port
sdl_image-1.2.5_2   =  up-to-date with port

What is missing?
--
Regards,
Torfinn

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Re: Hooks in Base Code

[Joe Pfeiffer]

Giles Jones writes:
>
>If it's just notifications then you can have a notification daemon  
>which any application can register it's events with. The preferences  
>for this would allow something like Play Sound, Display Message,  
>Flash backlight, Vibrate, Power off, Run script, Run command or do  
>nothing.

Note that dbus is already a part of openmoko.

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Re: ringtones?

[Giles Jones]

On 18 Jul 2007, at 23:39, Jeff Andros wrote:




Maybe go one step further... set it up as an observer pattern  
inside the os.  you could build a simple GUI that wraps around it,  
but also other programs could register to be notified on a phone  
action (damn, I really need to go over the code... this might  
already be implemented) I like the idea of moving away from the  
shell for things like this, getting into faster, native code, but  
it would be really nice to be able to fall back on shell scripting  
when you need something quick and dirty... I admit to running a  
poll on www.openmoko.com the night before it went live (it was only  
every 5 minutes, and I took it down once the site changed) with a  
bash script took 5 minutes or so to write (yeah, I built a command  
line IM daemon that took up the other 3 hours or so)




Indeed, I'm thinking something like Growl on the Mac, but not limited  
to visual notifications.


http://growl.info/screenshots.php




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Re: Hooks in Base Code

[Giles Jones]

On 18 Jul 2007, at 23:21, Jim McDonald wrote:


To clarify, I'm thinking not of getting in the way of the basics of  
things like gsmd, which should handle the fact that there is an  
incoming call and also pick up the caller ID if present, but what  
openmoko does as a result of this information.  Given the fact that  
there is an incoming call from number 555-123-4567 what should the  
'phone do?  Should it silently ignore the call, send it straight to  
voicemail (either operator or on the 'phone itself), use a specific  
ringtone for the user, even shut down entirely (some sort of "if I  
ring my 'phone from this number then nuke it" option!).  The point  
is, there are lots of possibilities and we don't want them all  
sitting inside gsmd, it makes more sense for them to be external  
modules that can be chained together in a clean fashion without  
requiring direct access to something as sensitive as gsmd.  At  
least, that's my take on it.


If it's just notifications then you can have a notification daemon  
which any application can register it's events with. The preferences  
for this would allow something like Play Sound, Display Message,  
Flash backlight, Vibrate, Power off, Run script, Run command or do  
nothing.





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Re: Hooks in Base Code

[Giles Jones]

On 18 Jul 2007, at 23:03, Jim McDonald wrote:



   If the monolithic approach is out then some sort of modular  
approach is required.  The most obvious example out there today is  
Firefox, which comes in a relatively simple base configuration but  
provides any number of hooks to allow people to write their own  
extensions on top of the base code and as such to alter the  
functionality of the product very extensively.  If we want this  
openmoko to be as free as possible then it also needs to be as easy  
as possible for people to extend, and this is the most likely way  
of doing it.


   I know that there are a lot of potential problems that need to  
be addressed when building this out but if there is a vision from  
the start as to how this would work then it would go a long way to  
making the final product the 'phone that we are all dreaming of,  
regardless of the fact that those dreams are often divergent from  
others if not totally exclusive.  So my questions are there plans  
to include these hooks, and if not can it be considered?


   Or is there another way to do this other than hooks?



You have to modularise and split the applications into interface and  
the engine code as much as possible. If clever enough you could even  
define the interface layout using definition files in XML or some  
other trendy file format :)


I know that the Home page on Windows Mobile Smartphone edition is  
just an XML file which can contain links to plugins.





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Re: Hooks in Base Code

[Brad Pitcher]

sure we couldn't do it directly like that.  But couldn't we fake it by have
the phone answer the call immediately after it detects it, playing the sound
file over the radio (instead of sending microphone input), and act like it's
still ringing?

On 7/18/07, Daniel Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I don't know how much of the at signaling is available at the data
terminal.  What is the signaling for sending caller ID to a cellular phone?
For example, on POTS, the digits are signaled with a Bell 103 modem between
the first and second ring.

Someone said something about having the ringback tone be a sound file that
is configurable according to caller.  I don't know if that is possible from
the phone.  The ring back tone is generated by switching equipment, not the
terminal.

--Dan

On 7/18/07, Jim McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  [This may have been better to post to the development list but as
> people are talking about it here I'll start here]
>
> Hi,
>A number of people have been talking about the cool things that they
> would like their 'phone to do but after spending some time looking at the
> information available so far I don't see anything that suggests the current
> codebase will allow people the freedom that they need.  If I take a simple
> example of an incoming call them some of the suggestions that we have seen
> so far to handle it include different ring tones for different people or
> groups of people, auto-handling of the call by sending it to voicemail or
> letting it through, different responses depending on the time of day, *etc.
> *The point that I'm trying to make is that there are a multitude of
> things that you *could* do but each person will have a limited number of
> things that they want the 'phone to *actually* do.  As such, building
> out all of these options in to a single piece of code will not only be very
> hard to manage and maintain but will severely limit the ability of people to
> scratch their itches and develop code to make the 'phone do what they want
> it to.
>
>If the monolithic approach is out then some sort of modular approach
> is required.  The most obvious example out there today is Firefox, which
> comes in a relatively simple base configuration but provides any number of
> hooks to allow people to write their own extensions on top of the base code
> and as such to alter the functionality of the product very extensively.  If
> we want this openmoko to be as free as possible then it also needs to be as
> easy as possible for people to extend, and this is the most likely way of
> doing it.
>
>I know that there are a lot of potential problems that need to be
> addressed when building this out but if there is a vision from the start as
> to how this would work then it would go a long way to making the final
> product the 'phone that we are all dreaming of, regardless of the fact that
> those dreams are often divergent from others if not totally exclusive.  So
> my questions are there plans to include these hooks, and if not can it be
> considered?
>
>Or is there another way to do this other than hooks?
>
> Cheers,
> Jim.
>
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Re: Shipping update

[Ian Darwin]

Brad Pitcher wrote:
I'm in a similar situation, I'm leaving for OSCON on Sunday.  I will 
attend a BoF at Ubuntu Live Sunday night and another one at OSCON 
Thursday night.  I desperately want to bring my phone with me.  I paid 
for 3-day shipping but now it looks like it may not get here quite on 
time. 


Me too; I'm teaching a 4-day Linux course next week, and showing a real 
phone is just somehow more convincing than holding up a printout of the 
web page.


For all who are down to the wire like this, in case your phone does come 
through, remember that some of the SH1 batch need to be reloaded before 
use (see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SH1_FAQ and 
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko). Youu might want to 
download dfu-util, rootfs and uImage, and have them on your laptop ready 
to reflash, in case you do manage to meet up with your phone in time to 
show it...


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Re: Hooks in Base Code

[Jim McDonald]

Daniel Robinson wrote:
> I don't know how much of the at signaling is available at the data
> terminal.  What is the signaling for sending caller ID to a cellular
> phone?  For example, on POTS, the digits are signaled with a Bell 103
> modem between the first and second ring. 
>
> Someone said something about having the ringback tone be a sound file
> that is configurable according to caller.  I don't know if that is
> possible from the phone.  The ring back tone is generated by switching
> equipment, not the terminal.
To clarify, I'm thinking not of getting in the way of the basics of
things like gsmd, which should handle the fact that there is an incoming
call and also pick up the caller ID if present, but what openmoko does
as a result of this information.  Given the fact that there is an
incoming call from number 555-123-4567 what should the 'phone do? 
Should it silently ignore the call, send it straight to voicemail
(either operator or on the 'phone itself), use a specific ringtone for
the user, even shut down entirely (some sort of "if I ring my 'phone
from this number then nuke it" option!).  The point is, there are lots
of possibilities and we don't want them all sitting inside gsmd, it
makes more sense for them to be external modules that can be chained
together in a clean fashion without requiring direct access to something
as sensitive as gsmd.  At least, that's my take on it.

> --Dan

Cheers,
Jim.
>
> On 7/18/07, *Jim McDonald* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
> wrote:
>
> [This may have been better to post to the development list but as
> people are talking about it here I'll start here]
>
> Hi,
>A number of people have been talking about the cool things that
> they would like their 'phone to do but after spending some time
> looking at the information available so far I don't see anything
> that suggests the current codebase will allow people the freedom
> that they need.  If I take a simple example of an incoming call
> them some of the suggestions that we have seen so far to handle it
> include different ring tones for different people or groups of
> people, auto-handling of the call by sending it to voicemail or
> letting it through, different responses depending on the time of
> day, /etc.  /The point that I'm trying to make is that there are a
> multitude of things that you /could/ do but each person will have
> a limited number of things that they want the 'phone to /actually/
> do.  As such, building out all of these options in to a single
> piece of code will not only be very hard to manage and maintain
> but will severely limit the ability of people to scratch their
> itches and develop code to make the 'phone do what they want it to.
>
>If the monolithic approach is out then some sort of modular
> approach is required.  The most obvious example out there today is
> Firefox, which comes in a relatively simple base configuration but
> provides any number of hooks to allow people to write their own
> extensions on top of the base code and as such to alter the
> functionality of the product very extensively.  If we want this
> openmoko to be as free as possible then it also needs to be as
> easy as possible for people to extend, and this is the most likely
> way of doing it.
>
>I know that there are a lot of potential problems that need to
> be addressed when building this out but if there is a vision from
> the start as to how this would work then it would go a long way to
> making the final product the 'phone that we are all dreaming of,
> regardless of the fact that those dreams are often divergent from
> others if not totally exclusive.  So my questions are there plans
> to include these hooks, and if not can it be considered?
>
>Or is there another way to do this other than hooks?
>
> Cheers,
> Jim.
>
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>
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Re: Hooks in Base Code

[Daniel Robinson]

I don't know how much of the at signaling is available at the data
terminal.  What is the signaling for sending caller ID to a cellular phone?
For example, on POTS, the digits are signaled with a Bell 103 modem between
the first and second ring.

Someone said something about having the ringback tone be a sound file that
is configurable according to caller.  I don't know if that is possible from
the phone.  The ring back tone is generated by switching equipment, not the
terminal.

--Dan

On 7/18/07, Jim McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


 [This may have been better to post to the development list but as people
are talking about it here I'll start here]

Hi,
   A number of people have been talking about the cool things that they
would like their 'phone to do but after spending some time looking at the
information available so far I don't see anything that suggests the current
codebase will allow people the freedom that they need.  If I take a simple
example of an incoming call them some of the suggestions that we have seen
so far to handle it include different ring tones for different people or
groups of people, auto-handling of the call by sending it to voicemail or
letting it through, different responses depending on the time of day, *etc.
*The point that I'm trying to make is that there are a multitude of things
that you *could* do but each person will have a limited number of things
that they want the 'phone to *actually* do.  As such, building out all of
these options in to a single piece of code will not only be very hard to
manage and maintain but will severely limit the ability of people to scratch
their itches and develop code to make the 'phone do what they want it to.

   If the monolithic approach is out then some sort of modular approach is
required.  The most obvious example out there today is Firefox, which comes
in a relatively simple base configuration but provides any number of hooks
to allow people to write their own extensions on top of the base code and as
such to alter the functionality of the product very extensively.  If we want
this openmoko to be as free as possible then it also needs to be as easy as
possible for people to extend, and this is the most likely way of doing it.

   I know that there are a lot of potential problems that need to be
addressed when building this out but if there is a vision from the start as
to how this would work then it would go a long way to making the final
product the 'phone that we are all dreaming of, regardless of the fact that
those dreams are often divergent from others if not totally exclusive.  So
my questions are there plans to include these hooks, and if not can it be
considered?

   Or is there another way to do this other than hooks?

Cheers,
Jim.

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Hooks in Base Code

[Jim McDonald]

[This may have been better to post to the development list but as people
are talking about it here I'll start here]

Hi,
   A number of people have been talking about the cool things that they
would like their 'phone to do but after spending some time looking at
the information available so far I don't see anything that suggests the
current codebase will allow people the freedom that they need.  If I
take a simple example of an incoming call them some of the suggestions
that we have seen so far to handle it include different ring tones for
different people or groups of people, auto-handling of the call by
sending it to voicemail or letting it through, different responses
depending on the time of day, /etc.  /The point that I'm trying to make
is that there are a multitude of things that you /could/ do but each
person will have a limited number of things that they want the 'phone to
/actually/ do.  As such, building out all of these options in to a
single piece of code will not only be very hard to manage and maintain
but will severely limit the ability of people to scratch their itches
and develop code to make the 'phone do what they want it to.

   If the monolithic approach is out then some sort of modular approach
is required.  The most obvious example out there today is Firefox, which
comes in a relatively simple base configuration but provides any number
of hooks to allow people to write their own extensions on top of the
base code and as such to alter the functionality of the product very
extensively.  If we want this openmoko to be as free as possible then it
also needs to be as easy as possible for people to extend, and this is
the most likely way of doing it.

   I know that there are a lot of potential problems that need to be
addressed when building this out but if there is a vision from the start
as to how this would work then it would go a long way to making the
final product the 'phone that we are all dreaming of, regardless of the
fact that those dreams are often divergent from others if not totally
exclusive.  So my questions are there plans to include these hooks, and
if not can it be considered?

   Or is there another way to do this other than hooks?

Cheers,
Jim.
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Re: projects of interest?

[Giles Jones]

On 18 Jul 2007, at 22:40, Casey Harkins wrote:


Mathew Prokos wrote:
Anti theft software would be an interesting project, possibly  
detecting if the sim card was changed, and sending its current  
location to either a known cell phone via txt msg or to an  
internet server.. Sort of the same idea of the tracking software  
that was mentioned earlier.


I was planning (with the previously mentioned tracking software) to  
report details about the SIM card as well. Seems reasonable to add  
an option to trigger an automatic push of the data when SIM cards  
are changed.




There's quite a few ideas on the Wiki about security. Might be worth  
adding and refining these:


http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List#Anti_Theft_mode




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Re: projects of interest?

[Casey Harkins]

Mathew Prokos wrote:


Anti theft software would be an interesting project, possibly detecting 
if the sim card was changed, and sending its current location to either 
a known cell phone via txt msg or to an internet server.. Sort of the 
same idea of the tracking software that was mentioned earlier.




I was planning (with the previously mentioned tracking software) to 
report details about the SIM card as well. Seems reasonable to add an 
option to trigger an automatic push of the data when SIM cards are changed.


Once I get my phone and have a little time to play with agps on it, I'll 
create something on projects.openmoko.org. It seems like there are a lot 
of use cases for gathering and possibly reporting gps routes. A single 
app to handle the basics and providing api (via dbus?) to allow domain 
specific UI apps to be created might be a good approach. Once there's a 
project created, anyone who's interested can move the discussion over there.


-casey

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Re: this phone, with WiFi

[Robin Paulson]

fantastic idea. very flexible, and allows addition of multiple microSD
(assuming the necessary IO pins are avialable), batteries, a hi-power
LED for a torch, extra buttons, a scroll-wheel, all sorts.

On 7/19/07, Doug Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Well, here is a single part that would make it much easier to try out
WiFi antennas, other kinds of antennas, all kinds of random hardware...

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:ExpansionSpacer




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Re: projects of interest?

[Mathew Prokos]

Anti theft software would be an interesting project, possibly detecting if
the sim card was changed, and sending its current location to either a known
cell phone via txt msg or to an internet server.. Sort of the same idea of
the tracking software that was mentioned earlier.




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Re: Neo1973 Arrived 7.17.07

[Frederic Kettelhoit]

would it be possibl to get some blueprints of the neo? or do we have to wait
for the first guys who receive their phones?

Good news anyway :)

On 7/18/07, Joe Pfeiffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


mokoNinja writes:
>Our Neos have FINALLY arrived at FIC America headquarters.  We are
>now ready to ship.
>Thanks to FICA for the confirmation pictures:
>
>http://people.openmoko.org/ninjutsu/NeoArrived.mp4
>or
>http://youtube.com/watch?v=Dsvyr656c78

Whoo hoo!  This is great!

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Re: ringtones?

[Giles Jones]

On 18 Jul 2007, at 21:48, Jeff Andros wrote:

it might be worth while to have no other notification except a  
script fired off when the call comes in (think SVN hooks)  It would  
allow you to customize logging(fork off a call log script), and  
make it really easy for other applications to provide call-based  
services ( I.E. if the call is not answered in 30 seconds, and wifi  
is available, attempt to run as a voip gateway and route the call  
to your [desktop|server|voip answering machine service]). oh yeah,  
and it might pull up some kind of audio player so you can hear it ring


Sounds like a plan. But I think scripts of the text form would be a  
bit too involved for a phone. I was thinking that there could be a  
notification agent in the phone which applies rules and can act on them.


So for instance if you receive a text message containing a word you  
could auto-open it or play a sound, display a message. This could  
also be used for ringtones, when a certain person calls, maybe add a  
date/time condition.


It would be along the lines of email rules, except available to  
email, sms and phone calls. It would be a sort of script, but built  
in an easy GUI fashion.





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Re: ringtones?

[Jeff Andros]

it might be worth while to have no other notification except a script fired
off when the call comes in (think SVN hooks)  It would allow you to
customize logging(fork off a call log script), and make it really easy for
other applications to provide call-based services (I.E. if the call is not
answered in 30 seconds, and wifi is available, attempt to run as a voip
gateway and route the call to your [desktop|server|voip answering machine
service]). oh yeah, and it might pull up some kind of audio player so you
can hear it ring

--
Jeff
O|||O

On 7/18/07, Giles Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



On 18 Jul 2007, at 21:11, Kero van Gelder wrote:
>> gtones can't be an application. So long
>> as the app starts and ends fast.
>
> "application" ?
>
> some playing daemon that listens on dbus?

No, I mean any music or sound generating application that can be
invoked and stopped using the command line.

A mod player, sid player, random sound generating command.

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--
Jeff
O|||O
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Re: projects of interest? - mebot

[Tim Newsom]

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 12:10, Mark Rossman wrote:

First off I think the largest amount of time would be to calculate the
distance between each possible combination of points, and I think most
people wouldn't really have that many points anyway.  Now if UPS
decides to offload their routing onto the cell phones of their drivers
it would take forever, but most people don't really go that many
places.

Also if you set up the software to solve the TSP problem as an IP,
then used the LP relaxation as your actual problem you would greatly
reduce computation time, and get a list of possible next stops ordered
based on their weight, most of the time it would give you a near
optimal solution.



I think you said that much better than I did.
--Tim

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Re: ringtones?

[Giles Jones]

On 18 Jul 2007, at 21:11, Kero van Gelder wrote:

gtones can't be an application. So long
as the app starts and ends fast.


"application" ?

some playing daemon that listens on dbus?


No, I mean any music or sound generating application that can be  
invoked and stopped using the command line.


A mod player, sid player, random sound generating command. 


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Re: projects of interest? - mebot

[Tim Newsom]

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 12:51, Brad Pitcher wrote:

Actually, I was thinking of offloading that work to a mashup like
interface.. Say google maps or what not and just displaying the result.


But google maps doesn't reorder destinations to create the optimal path 
does it?


No idea.  That's why I said "or what not" /grin.
I know you can build maplets.. But I have never done it and I don't know 
what possible there. I am going to assume that you have the ability to 
enter a starting point... (Maybe where you are right now).
Then if the mapplets are just plotting functions the best you can do is 
find a route.  However, there are functions to find the shortest 
distance, shortest time etc.. A test would need to be provided to see if 
you could enter a set of gps coords as "waypoints" or whatever you call 
them and then say map by shortest distance.  Maybe it only works in the 
order you provide the points.
In that case, (I think mapplets are only Javascript but I don't know) 
assuming there is a programming interface you could upload to the 
mapplet a set of points and the starting point... Then it could iterate 
through the remaining possibilities till it finds the route...


I.e. What the distance from start to each point...
Find the shortest and then find the distance from that one to the ones 
remaining.. Continue until completed. That gives you the order for the 
points.
Really, you could guess the order based on distance between gps coords, 
but that won't take into consideration road length... I.e. From the top 
of a mountain to the bottom might be 3 miles based on gps coords, but 
due to the winding roads its more like 10 or 15... Kinda big error 
there.


Anyway, if you include an external server and sufficient software the 
rendering could be pretty quick. And I am guessing most people won't 
have more than 20 or 30 places to go in a day... But even at 100, the 
sorting time could be pretty small.


I grant you, its not the most efficient algorithm.. But it should do the 
trick.


You could add additional features such as end where you started... So it 
could balance the travel with the last few stops closest to where you 
began, etc. Many ways to do that.


Or another variation on this theme, assuming you have access to a 
directory listing, traffic and weather data and you know the category of 
some tasks (groceries, gas, books) or maybe the category of locations 
(grocery store, gas station, book store) or how about a specific one in 
case you have a preference (76, chevron, barns and noble, safeway or 
albertsons) - btw, I am in the USA so exchange with names in your 
country -


Then once the tasks in your lists are categorized have the mapped route 
take you to the closest places based on those and sort in the shortest 
time or distance and take into account traffic and weather conditions.


Anyway, its just an idea built upon an idea.

--Tim

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Re: Possible App - Security

[Christian Stüble]

Hola,

we are planning to develop several security-related applications on top of the 
Neo device. Voice encryption is only one of them.

Regards,
Chris

Am Mittwoch, 18. Juli 2007 11:36 schrieb COMINT:
> Hi there
>
> I'm interested in putting together an encryption app to allow secure
> voice calls over the GSM data call facility.
>
> I'm looking for one or more people that would be interested in working
> together to get something running on the neo.
>
> If anyone is interested please drop me an email.
>
> Kind regards
>
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Re: ringtones?

[Kero van Gelder]

>> If it won't play arbitrary audio files as a ringtone out of the box it 
>> won't
>> be long before someone updates it.
>
> I'm sure it will do WAVs, MP3s and other files when finished.
>
> I'd like to see support for RTTL and other text based tones. as well.
>
> Hell, there's no reason why the ringtones can't be an application. So long 
> as the app starts and ends fast.

"application" ?

some playing daemon that listens on dbus?


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Re: iPhone has built in spyware module?

[kenneth marken]

On Wednesday 18 July 2007 21:54:05 Giles Jones wrote:
> On 18 Jul 2007, at 20:38, Sander van Grieken wrote:
> > Worrying news, if this rumour is confirmed, although it might be
> > positive PR
> > for open phones..
> >
> > http://vsiphone.blogspot.com/2007/07/iphone-has-built-in-spyware-
> > module.html
>
> It might just be a backup function. When you sign up for .Mac when
> you buy an Apple Mac you get the option to backup all your settings
> to a server.
>

same thought here. i smell some kind of online backup function.

question is, can someone use it to drain a iphone for info?

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Re: ringtones?

[Giles Jones]

On 18 Jul 2007, at 20:43, Al Johnson wrote:

If it won't play arbitrary audio files as a ringtone out of the box  
it won't

be long before someone updates it.


I'm sure it will do WAVs, MP3s and other files when finished.

I'd like to see support for RTTL and other text based tones. as well.

Hell, there's no reason why the ringtones can't be an application. So  
long as the app starts and ends fast.





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Re: ringtones?

[Brad Pitcher]

there are a few ringtones in subversion:
http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/sounds/

On 7/18/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Anybody know what the status is on being able to set custom ringtones or
if the
phone already has a bunch of built in ringtones?  I know its just for
development purposes right now but I'm bored at work and this question
just
popped into my head.

Richard


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Re: iPhone has built in spyware module?

[Giles Jones]

On 18 Jul 2007, at 20:38, Sander van Grieken wrote:

Worrying news, if this rumour is confirmed, although it might be  
positive PR

for open phones..

http://vsiphone.blogspot.com/2007/07/iphone-has-built-in-spyware- 
module.html


It might just be a backup function. When you sign up for .Mac when  
you buy an Apple Mac you get the option to backup all your settings  
to a server.



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Re: projects of interest?

[Tom Russell]

Cool project - I'll definitely be looking at it when I get my GTA02.
Thanks for the pointer.

Tom

On Wed, 2007-07-18 at 10:50 -0700, Jeff Andros wrote:
> some of this is implemented by FMA (http://fma.sourceforge.net/),
> however, it's about as stable and reliable as a good hotrod.  Some of
> the problems are probably due to the closed software on the phone, and
> I really commend those guys for what they've done.  Since we have
> access to the phone's os, it should be really simple to get it to
> cooperate with the desktop software. 
> 
> Anyways, I'm a fan (it was so nice back in school, I could have my
> ringer off in class and still see who was calling without jumping
> around trying to get my phone out of my pocket)
> 
> (you may also be able to use a USB connection as a fall-back...
> bluetooth and wifi aren't always available depending on your
> location/machine) 
> 
> On 7/18/07, Tom Russell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I want to be able to script (in Python?) a simple app that,
> when I sit
> down at my desk @ work, turns the ringer to vibrate and sends
> any
> incoming call notifications to my Linux desktop for visual
> display or
> ringtones through my PC headphones. 
> 
> --
> Tom
> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Jeff
> O|||O
=/


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Re: Shipping update

[Casey Harkins]

Brad Pitcher wrote:
I'm in a similar situation, I'm leaving for OSCON on Sunday.  I will 
attend a BoF at Ubuntu Live Sunday night and another one at OSCON 
Thursday night.  I desperately want to bring my phone with me.  I paid 
for 3-day shipping but now it looks like it may not get her quite on 


I'm in the same boat. Hopefully some of us will get our phones in time 
for OSCON. :-)


See some of you there!

-casey

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Re: ringtones?

[Al Johnson]

If it won't play arbitrary audio files as a ringtone out of the box it won't 
be long before someone updates it.

On Wednesday 18 July 2007 20:37, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Anybody know what the status is on being able to set custom ringtones or if
> the phone already has a bunch of built in ringtones?  I know its just for
> development purposes right now but I'm bored at work and this question just
> popped into my head.
>
> Richard
>
>
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Re: projects of interest? - mebot

[Brad Pitcher]

Actually, I was thinking of offloading that work to a mashup like
interface.. Say google maps or what not and just displaying the result.



But google maps doesn't reorder destinations to create the optimal path does
it?
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ringtones?

[richard5]

Anybody know what the status is on being able to set custom ringtones or if the
phone already has a bunch of built in ringtones?  I know its just for
development purposes right now but I'm bored at work and this question just
popped into my head.

Richard


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iPhone has built in spyware module?

[Sander van Grieken]

Worrying news, if this rumour is confirmed, although it might be positive PR 
for open phones..

http://vsiphone.blogspot.com/2007/07/iphone-has-built-in-spyware-module.html

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Re: Payment Received

[Giles Jones]

On 18 Jul 2007, at 20:00, Jason Elwell wrote:


Awesome news!!!  FIC processed my credit card!

See screenshot:

http://www.chooseopen.com/PaymentReceived.png

Regards,
Jason


Good for you :)

Another 795 orders to get through until they get to mine :(


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Re: projects of interest?

[Visti Andresen]

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 12:14:41 -0700
Myk Melez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Daniel Robinson wrote:
> > What are the projects of interest for people?
> I want to port minimo  to the 
> phone.

Just do a 'bitbake minimo' :)

Could perhaps use some minor adjustments
(the buttons seems a bit large, maybe this is intentional?) 

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Re: projects of interest?

[Myk Melez]

Daniel Robinson wrote:

What are the projects of interest for people?
I want to port minimo  to the 
phone.


-myk

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Re: Payment Received

[richard5]

*Headbangs*  I'm all excited now :D

Quoting Jason Elwell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


Awesome news!!!  FIC processed my credit card!

See screenshot:

http://www.chooseopen.com/PaymentReceived.png

Regards,
Jason

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Re: projects of interest? - mebot

[Tim Newsom]

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 11:27, Jeff Andros wrote:

On 7/18/07, Tim Newsom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



You could expand this a little and possibly select items from multiple
location lists and then select
"Find the shortest route to complete all tasks"




--Tim


just don't expect it to do so very fast... and make sure it runs as a 
REALLY low priority


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveling_salesman_problem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NP-hard

--
Jeff
O|||O


Actually, I was thinking of offloading that work to a mashup like 
interface.. Say google maps or what not and just displaying the result.


--Tim

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Payment Received

[Jason Elwell]

Awesome news!!!  FIC processed my credit card!

See screenshot:

http://www.chooseopen.com/PaymentReceived.png

Regards,
Jason

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Filesystem layout standard?

[Giles Jones]

Hi,

Is there any documentation about a standard filesystem layout?

For user data storage like music, videos etc.

On Mac OS X there are pre-define folders for Movies, Music, Pictures  
and Applications. It would save a lot of time searching with file  
dialogs if a standard was proposed for applications.


Example, an application which plays mp3s would look in Music by default.


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Re:Neo1973 Arrived 7.17.07

[Joe Pfeiffer]

mokoNinja writes:
>Our Neos have FINALLY arrived at FIC America headquarters.  We are  
>now ready to ship.
>Thanks to FICA for the confirmation pictures:
>
>http://people.openmoko.org/ninjutsu/NeoArrived.mp4
>or
>http://youtube.com/watch?v=Dsvyr656c78

Whoo hoo!  This is great!

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Re: projects of interest? - mebot

[Mark Rossman]

First off I think the largest amount of time would be to calculate the
distance between each possible combination of points, and I think most
people wouldn't really have that many points anyway.  Now if UPS
decides to offload their routing onto the cell phones of their drivers
it would take forever, but most people don't really go that many
places.

Also if you set up the software to solve the TSP problem as an IP,
then used the LP relaxation as your actual problem you would greatly
reduce computation time, and get a list of possible next stops ordered
based on their weight, most of the time it would give you a near
optimal solution.

On 7/18/07, Jeff Andros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



On 7/18/07, Tim Newsom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> You could expand this a little and possibly select items from multiple
> location lists and then select
> "Find the shortest route to complete all tasks"
>
> 
> --Tim
>
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just don't expect it to do so very fast... and make sure it runs as a REALLY
low priority

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveling_salesman_problem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NP-hard

--
Jeff
O|||O
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Re: projects of interest? - mebot

[Jeff Andros]

On 7/18/07, Tim Newsom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:




You could expand this a little and possibly select items from multiple
location lists and then select
"Find the shortest route to complete all tasks"




--Tim

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just don't expect it to do so very fast... and make sure it runs as a REALLY
low priority

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveling_salesman_problem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NP-hard

--
Jeff
O|||O
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Re: Neo1973 Arrived 7.17.07

[Visti Andresen]

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 01:28:20 +0800
mokoNinja <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Our Neos have FINALLY arrived at FIC America headquarters.  We are  
> now ready to ship.
> Thanks to FICA for the confirmation pictures:
> 
> http://people.openmoko.org/ninjutsu/NeoArrived.mp4
> or
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=Dsvyr656c78
> 
> Cheers,
> mokoNinja
> 

Great! 
Too bad they weren't shipped from Taiwan... then we might have had the phones 
this week :)

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Re: projects of interest? - mebot

[Tim Newsom]

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 7:40, Marc Verwerft wrote:

On 7/18/07, Emre Turkay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I'm planning to use it to implement a GTD[1] utility.


Yes!


Consider there is a simple market-list application, in which I note
the stuff I need to buy from market, time to time. When I approach to
the market moko starts an audio alert and tells me to stop by the
market to buy stuff. When I enter the market automatically pops up my
market list.


My wife would love this :-)



I'm thinking about a plug-in architecture so you can extend this idea
as far as it goes, bugzilla integration, mail client integration, web
browser integration, integration with an outliner/mindmapper, project
planner, tomboy, etc. Every new plug-in will open a door to another
cool idea.

Started to write it a couple weeks ago, got a sourceforge account[2].
There is a very trivial demonstration application on subversion and as
a tarball download.

If there is anybody interested I would love to discuss.

I'm sure willing to test it ...



[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gtd
[2] http://mebot.sourceforge.net

emre



You could expand this a little and possibly select items from multiple 
location lists and then select

"Find the shortest route to complete all tasks"
And have it map the entire selected list of waypoints in some order.. 
Possibly even order by the number of tasks/items in any one location to 
optimize the amount of work completed.


--Tim

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Re: projects of interest?

[Jeff Andros]

some of this is implemented by FMA (http://fma.sourceforge.net/), however,
it's about as stable and reliable as a good hotrod.  Some of the problems
are probably due to the closed software on the phone, and I really commend
those guys for what they've done.  Since we have access to the phone's os,
it should be really simple to get it to cooperate with the desktop software.

Anyways, I'm a fan (it was so nice back in school, I could have my ringer
off in class and still see who was calling without jumping around trying to
get my phone out of my pocket)

(you may also be able to use a USB connection as a fall-back... bluetooth
and wifi aren't always available depending on your location/machine)

On 7/18/07, Tom Russell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I want to be able to script (in Python?) a simple app that, when I sit
down at my desk @ work, turns the ringer to vibrate and sends any
incoming call notifications to my Linux desktop for visual display or
ringtones through my PC headphones.

--
Tom

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--
Jeff
O|||O
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Re: Shipping update

[Brad Pitcher]

Thanks for the suggestions, I may just have it rerouted to Portland.  That
seems like the best option to me.  Fortunately I have roommates who can sign
for the package for me.

On 7/18/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:





On Wed, 18 Jul 2007, Ted Lemon wrote:

> On Jul 18, 2007, at 9:35 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> Probably would be best to ask this of the shipping company. You might
also
>> be
>> able to change the delivery address to your hotel at the conference.
>
> They are generally reluctant to do this, both because it makes it easy
to
> steal a package enroute, and also because it's likely to result in
> misdelivery.   If you can change the routing at the source, it's much
more
> likely to work.

True.

Which reminds me of another possibility: When the package arrives, you can
have it redelivered to a different location. They may charge for this, but
it's an option. You'll be in Portland for almost a week, right?

I suppose you may need someone to accept the package at the original
destination, to avoid the theft issue that Ted raises.

Again, a call to the carrier to find out your options and related prices
might
be the best bet. Describe the situation, and ask them how they can help
you
solve it. If you get someone unhelpful, hang up and try again with a
different
customer support representative. You need someone who is willing to think
of a
solution. Such people do exist (they usually end up working on Open Source
projects :-)

Good luck,
Michael

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Re: projects of interest?

[Giles Jones]

On 18 Jul 2007, at 17:34, Tom Russell wrote:

I want to be able to script (in Python?) a simple app that, when I  
sit down at my desk @ work, turns the ringer to vibrate and sends  
any incoming call notifications to my Linux desktop for visual  
display or ringtones through my PC headphones.



Not sure if it's planned (but I hope so) but if there's a sync tool  
planned then I guess that it could automagically adjust these  
depending on what computer it is connected to? ie. Connecting Work PC  
would turn off the sound etc..


Assign a phone profile to a sync host.

So at work you might not want to sync your home email over pop3/imap,  
at home you might not want to sync your work email via pop3/imap




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Re: Shipping update

[michael]

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007, Ted Lemon wrote:


On Jul 18, 2007, at 9:35 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Probably would be best to ask this of the shipping company. You might also 
be

able to change the delivery address to your hotel at the conference.


They are generally reluctant to do this, both because it makes it easy to 
steal a package enroute, and also because it's likely to result in 
misdelivery.   If you can change the routing at the source, it's much more 
likely to work.


True.

Which reminds me of another possibility: When the package arrives, you can
have it redelivered to a different location. They may charge for this, but
it's an option. You'll be in Portland for almost a week, right?

I suppose you may need someone to accept the package at the original
destination, to avoid the theft issue that Ted raises.

Again, a call to the carrier to find out your options and related prices might
be the best bet. Describe the situation, and ask them how they can help you
solve it. If you get someone unhelpful, hang up and try again with a different
customer support representative. You need someone who is willing to think of a
solution. Such people do exist (they usually end up working on Open Source
projects :-)

Good luck,
Michael

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Re: projects of interest?

[Visti Andresen]

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 10:05:27 -0700 (PDT)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 18 Jul 2007, ramsesoriginal wrote:
> 
> > I though that this phone could be great for Bars/restourants/pubs: a simple
> > wifi network, and an app which syncs the order typed (or choosen) by the
> > waiter whith a waiter. There are plenty of such devices, I know, but if a
> > phone could also do this, it would be cool. We could write our own server
> > app with grafical frontend for the kitchen, or look if there's some sort of
> > standrad such that we simply implement it.
> >
> > Another cool use would be (TV|Radio|Computer|xyz) remote control, eventually
> > with a cool app which checks the channel guide from an rss feed.
> >
> > Another cool use could be as simple concert helper: simply create a
> > TuxGuitar player/visualizer. And incorporate something like Jokosher, a
> > guitar tuner. With some proper setup, could be cool.
> >
> > p.s. As Bluetooth keyboard, i recommend
> > http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/8193/
> 
> While extremely high on geek value, I've read reviews that suggest that this
> keyboard is not so comfortable to use. I'll probably get a BT mechanical
> keyboard. Anyone have recommendations for one?

And has a battery life of 2 hours...

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Re: Shipping update

[Ted Lemon]

On Jul 18, 2007, at 9:35 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Probably would be best to ask this of the shipping company. You  
might also be

able to change the delivery address to your hotel at the conference.


They are generally reluctant to do this, both because it makes it  
easy to steal a package enroute, and also because it's likely to  
result in misdelivery.   If you can change the routing at the source,  
it's much more likely to work.



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Neo1973 Arrived 7.17.07

[mokoNinja]

Our Neos have FINALLY arrived at FIC America headquarters.  We are  
now ready to ship.

Thanks to FICA for the confirmation pictures:

http://people.openmoko.org/ninjutsu/NeoArrived.mp4
or
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Dsvyr656c78

Cheers,
mokoNinja



The Art of Ninjutsu

The Ninja, at the beginning did not use that label for themselves,  
they were merely practitioners of strategies that were cultural  
opposites of the conventional outlooks of the ruling Japanese Samurai  
class. Their highly illegal counter culture went underground and it  
was for this reason alone that the art was shrouded by centuries of  
mystery and deliberate confusion in Japanese history.


The ninja clans used their art to ensure their survival in a time of  
violent political turmoil. It also included methods of gathering  
information, non-detection, avoidance, and misdirection techniques.


What was once condemned as an underground assassins technique, is  
today more recognised as a positive and powerful way of life in which  
harmony with nature, a working knowledge of universal laws and  
intuitive realisation of where the future is headed are learned  
through the experience of the Warrior Ways.




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Re: Possible App - Security

[Visti Andresen]

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 12:19:14 -0400 (EDT)
Paul Wouters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Wed, 18 Jul 2007, COMINT wrote:
> 
> > I'm interested in putting together an encryption app to allow secure
> > voice calls over the GSM data call facility.
> 
> You need IP layer encryption, not application based enpcryption.
You wouldn't actually NEED IP layer encryption

> 
> So ipsec, openvpn, l2tpd, OTR, GPG.
> 
> I'd recommend using IPsec with a ppp connection if you want to do GSM data
> calls
Sounds a lot more complicated to me that just throwing an ATDT command at the 
modem, and start sending encrypted data...

 - unless you want to do a "cryptophone" style DiffieHellman.
> 
> I am not sure if the latter one is patented.

I would just go for something out of a standard library say blowfish from
openssl's libcrypto

btw. 'bitbake openssl' creates a nice libcrypto ipk package :)

maybe twofish if I needed asymmetric encryption 


> 
> Paul
> 
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Re: projects of interest?

[michael]

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007, ramsesoriginal wrote:


I though that this phone could be great for Bars/restourants/pubs: a simple
wifi network, and an app which syncs the order typed (or choosen) by the
waiter whith a waiter. There are plenty of such devices, I know, but if a
phone could also do this, it would be cool. We could write our own server
app with grafical frontend for the kitchen, or look if there's some sort of
standrad such that we simply implement it.

Another cool use would be (TV|Radio|Computer|xyz) remote control, eventually
with a cool app which checks the channel guide from an rss feed.

Another cool use could be as simple concert helper: simply create a
TuxGuitar player/visualizer. And incorporate something like Jokosher, a
guitar tuner. With some proper setup, could be cool.

p.s. As Bluetooth keyboard, i recommend
http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/8193/


While extremely high on geek value, I've read reviews that suggest that this
keyboard is not so comfortable to use. I'll probably get a BT mechanical
keyboard. Anyone have recommendations for one?

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Re: ExpansionSpacer

[Doug Jones]

Eric van Horssen wrote:

Doug Jones wrote:
Well, here is a single part that would make it much easier to try out 
WiFi antennas, other kinds of antennas, all kinds of random hardware...


http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:ExpansionSpacer


I think this is a great idea!!

Just a small observation, isn't the battery being held in place by the 
back?

So we need to make sure when using a spacer to keep the battery in place.




There are lots of other details that would need to be worked out too.

I don't have the blueprints for the existing Neo case, and it may be a 
while before I have a phone to measure, so I had to make do with the 
photos and other information already in the wiki and the lists and so forth.


I figure we'll eventually be able to design something much better than 
what I can cobble up in a few hours with Krita and the Gimp.





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Re: mozilla based browser for maemo...

[kenneth marken]

On Wednesday 18 July 2007 05:58:29 Thomas Gstädtner wrote:
> Looks very(!) promising!
> According to the documentation on the page the UI is completely abstract so
> a OpenMoko gui shouldn't be a such big thing.
> The UI seems to be proprietary software by nokia, so this wouldn't usable
> for OM so or so.
>

yep. my understanding is that they right now have two interfaces up and 
running. a generic gtk one (not shown afaik) and the hildon/maemo one.

> 2007/7/18, Jae Stutzman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > I thought this interesting...not sure what the status of the browser for
> > openmoko is:
> > http://browser.garage.maemo.org/
> >
> > According to the information this is not based on Minimo, but the same
> > components as Firefox. The download was 7 MB to my N800! Full AJAX
> > support.
> >
> > Jae
> >
> > ___
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> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



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Re: projects of interest?

[Jason Elwell]

On Wednesday 18 July 2007 11:34:52 Tom Russell wrote:
> I want to be able to script (in Python?) a simple app that, when I sit
> down at my desk @ work, turns the ringer to vibrate and sends any
> incoming call notifications to my Linux desktop for visual display or
> ringtones through my PC headphones.

I like the idea, but I see one potential problem.  AFAIK, the phone is not 
capable of using the GSM-Voice and the GPRS Modem at the same time.  This 
means that you could not make a GPRS connection to your desktop while a call 
is coming in (i think).
A work around may be to use bluetooth or wifi to communicate with your 
desktop.

Of course, there shouldnt be anything stopping you from doing a missed-call 
notification once the incoming call has passed.

-Jason




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Re: ExpansionSpacer

[Doug Jones]

Eric van Horssen wrote:

Doug Jones wrote:
Well, here is a single part that would make it much easier to try out 
WiFi antennas, other kinds of antennas, all kinds of random hardware...


http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:ExpansionSpacer


I think this is a great idea!!

Just a small observation, isn't the battery being held in place by the 
back?

So we need to make sure when using a spacer to keep the battery in place.





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Re: Shipping update

[michael]

Probably would be best to ask this of the shipping company. You might also be
able to change the delivery address to your hotel at the conference.

Looking forward to meeting you at the BoF at Ubuntu Live Sunday night.

Michael



On Wed, 18 Jul 2007, Brad Pitcher wrote:


I'm in a similar situation, I'm leaving for OSCON on Sunday.  I will attend
a BoF at Ubuntu Live Sunday night and another one at OSCON Thursday night.
I desperately want to bring my phone with me.  I paid for 3-day shipping but
now it looks like it may not get her quite on time.  I wonder, if I reply to
the request tracker email asking to change my shipping to overnight, will
they do that?
-Brad

On 7/17/07, Ted Lemon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


 Sean, probably a dumb question, but I'm leaving for IETF on Saturday,
 so I'm really hoping that my two-day delivery will get the phone here
 by Friday.   I don't desperately need it before IETF - I just don't
 want it sitting on my front stoop for a week (well, for that part of
 a week before it's stolen!).

 Is there any chance that we'll get some kind of notification/tracking
 information when the phones ship?

 Sorry to hassle you - I know things must be really busy.   Congrats
 on getting the first batch through customs!


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Re: projects of interest?

[Tom Russell]

I want to be able to script (in Python?) a simple app that, when I sit 
down at my desk @ work, turns the ringer to vibrate and sends any 
incoming call notifications to my Linux desktop for visual display or 
ringtones through my PC headphones.


--
Tom

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Re: Possible App - Security

[Paul Wouters]

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007, COMINT wrote:

> I'm interested in putting together an encryption app to allow secure
> voice calls over the GSM data call facility.

You need IP layer encryption, not application based enpcryption.

So ipsec, openvpn, l2tpd, OTR, GPG.

I'd recommend using IPsec with a ppp connection if you want to do GSM data
calls - unless you want to do a "cryptophone" style DiffieHellman.

I am not sure if the latter one is patented.

Paul

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Re: Sorting out development interests

[Visti Andresen]

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 09:57:41 -0600
"Joe Friedrichsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 7/18/07, Daniel Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I think the thing that is missing is for people to find collaborators
> > to work on these projects.  Is this the right forum?
> 
> There is http://projects.openmoko.org/ and folks can discuss
> development ideas on a project-specific list, but I don't think the
> core team has even thought about administering it lately considering
> that the most recent project was created three months ago.
> 
> I also remember reading a while back that new projects would
> propose/announce themselves on this list as part of the application
> process. So maybe by starting a thread for the project you want, you
> can get some attention for your GForge application.
> 
> We just can't cut the core team any slack :-) First, we want phones,
> now we want projects, next we'll want a cookie!

Actually I still want a phone, keeps pressing the "get mail" button, but
alas still no "Payment e-mail" :)
and you are obviously forgetting milk for the cookie

> 
> Joe
> 
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Re: ExpansionSpacer (was: Re: this phone, with WiFi)

[Eric van Horssen]

Doug Jones wrote:
Well, here is a single part that would make it much easier to try out 
WiFi antennas, other kinds of antennas, all kinds of random hardware...


http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:ExpansionSpacer


I think this is a great idea!!

Just a small observation, isn't the battery being held in place by the back?
So we need to make sure when using a spacer to keep the battery in place.

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Re: Shipping update

[Jeff Andros]

On 7/17/07, Sean Moss-Pultz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Ted Lemon wrote:
> Sean, probably a dumb question, but I'm leaving for IETF on Saturday, so
> I'm really hoping that my two-day delivery will get the phone here by
> Friday.   I don't desperately need it before IETF - I just don't want it
> sitting on my front stoop for a week (well, for that part of a week
> before it's stolen!).
>
> Is there any chance that we'll get some kind of notification/tracking
> information when the phones ship?

Yes. We'll send you all tracking numbers with your charge confirmation.

> Sorry to hassle you - I know things must be really busy.   Congrats on
> getting the first batch through customs!

:-)

-Sean


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hmmm, it's too bad we don't have GPS with some kind of wireless connection
in each package... to see exactly where it's at... ;-)


there's going to be a couple of useless days continually checking the
tracking data

--
Jeff
O|||O
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Re: Not "the free phone"

[Arndt Heuvel]

Am Montag, 16. Juli 2007 22:14 schrieb Ken Young:
> How 'bout
>
> "For those who prefer JTAG to Bluetooth."  or
> "It's not just a phone, it's a hobby." or
> "Get one before the phone companies figure out what they are."
>
OpenMoko - and you even own the ghost in the machine.

:-)

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Re: Sorting out development interests

[Joe Friedrichsen]

On 7/18/07, Daniel Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I think the thing that is missing is for people to find collaborators
to work on these projects.  Is this the right forum?


There is http://projects.openmoko.org/ and folks can discuss
development ideas on a project-specific list, but I don't think the
core team has even thought about administering it lately considering
that the most recent project was created three months ago.

I also remember reading a while back that new projects would
propose/announce themselves on this list as part of the application
process. So maybe by starting a thread for the project you want, you
can get some attention for your GForge application.

We just can't cut the core team any slack :-) First, we want phones,
now we want projects, next we'll want a cookie!

Joe

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Re: Shipping update

[Brad Pitcher]

I'm in a similar situation, I'm leaving for OSCON on Sunday.  I will attend
a BoF at Ubuntu Live Sunday night and another one at OSCON Thursday night.
I desperately want to bring my phone with me.  I paid for 3-day shipping but
now it looks like it may not get her quite on time.  I wonder, if I reply to
the request tracker email asking to change my shipping to overnight, will
they do that?
-Brad

On 7/17/07, Ted Lemon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Sean, probably a dumb question, but I'm leaving for IETF on Saturday,
so I'm really hoping that my two-day delivery will get the phone here
by Friday.   I don't desperately need it before IETF - I just don't
want it sitting on my front stoop for a week (well, for that part of
a week before it's stolen!).

Is there any chance that we'll get some kind of notification/tracking
information when the phones ship?

Sorry to hassle you - I know things must be really busy.   Congrats
on getting the first batch through customs!


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Re: projects of interest? - mebot

[Brad Pitcher]

Yes!  For me a GTD app is the killer app.  Especially when you hook GPS into
it.  Maybe the phone could even look at the list of places you need to go to
accomplish your tasks for the day and plan an optimal route.  Thanks Emre!
I'll help with testing and maybe write a plugin for it.
-Brad

On 7/18/07, Emre Turkay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Just created a wiki entry:

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Mebot

emre

On 7/18/07, Mickael Faivre-Macon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > If there is anybody interested I would love to discuss.
> > I'm sure willing to test it ...
>
>
>
> Me too
> Did you put it in the Wiki ?
>
>
>
> >
> > >
> > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gtd
> > > [2] http://mebot.sourceforge.net
> > >
> > > emre
> > >
> >
> > ___
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> >
>
>
> --
> Mickael.
> Coding an AI ! http://faivrem.googlepages.com/antbattle
>

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Re: projects of interest? - mebot

[Emre Turkay]

Just created a wiki entry:

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Mebot

emre

On 7/18/07, Mickael Faivre-Macon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > If there is anybody interested I would love to discuss.
> I'm sure willing to test it ...



Me too
Did you put it in the Wiki ?



>
> >
> > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gtd
> > [2] http://mebot.sourceforge.net
> >
> > emre
> >
>
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--
Mickael.
Coding an AI ! http://faivrem.googlepages.com/antbattle



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Re: Hardware/Software UI Relationship

[Joe Pfeiffer]

Gabriel Ambuehl writes:
>On Wednesday 18 July 2007 09:50:36 Giles Jones wrote:
>> > The matching object is shown on top and selectable. Size on those object
>> > can depend on number of matches and can be compacted in intelligent ways
>> > like: [contacts 3] [document 12] [apps 2]
>> That sounds very similar to QuickSilver on the Mac, it works really well.
>> You start typing and then it provides matching documents, webpages,
>> applications etc.. it's very fast.
>
>Katapult on KDE is kinda similar (I think it's actually intended to be a 
>Quicksilver copy cat). It's included with Kubuntu, at least.

It's also how the PalmOS AddressBook application works.

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Re: projects of interest? - mebot

[Marc Verwerft]

On 7/18/07, Emre Turkay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I'm planning to use it to implement a GTD[1] utility.


Yes!


Consider there is a simple market-list application, in which I note
the stuff I need to buy from market, time to time. When I approach to
the market moko starts an audio alert and tells me to stop by the
market to buy stuff. When I enter the market automatically pops up my
market list.


My wife would love this :-)



I'm thinking about a plug-in architecture so you can extend this idea
as far as it goes, bugzilla integration, mail client integration, web
browser integration, integration with an outliner/mindmapper, project
planner, tomboy, etc. Every new plug-in will open a door to another
cool idea.

Started to write it a couple weeks ago, got a sourceforge account[2].
There is a very trivial demonstration application on subversion and as
a tarball download.

If there is anybody interested I would love to discuss.

I'm sure willing to test it ...



[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gtd
[2] http://mebot.sourceforge.net

emre



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Re: Possible App - Security

[Visti Andresen]

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 10:36:56 +0100
COMINT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi there
> 
> I'm interested in putting together an encryption app to allow secure
> voice calls over the GSM data call facility.
> 
> I'm looking for one or more people that would be interested in working
> together to get something running on the neo.
> 
> If anyone is interested please drop me an email.
> 
> Kind regards

Interesting application currently not the most use full app
(there are not that many phones, they haven't even shipped yet :)

I would recommend that the application also supported using TCP/IP for
sending data.
Could cut down the phone bills quite dramatically.
And besides its only the transport pipe that needs to be changed.

The phone could for instance perform a GSM data call and try to negotiate
a TCP/IP address and port if both phones has a network connection.

I have poked around building a WoIP application (without compression)
it worked relatively well even though it is very simple.
The most important missing feature was missing synchronisation between the
audio stream (to compensate for slightly different clock speeds)


Btw. I would also like to mention that almost an eon ago I have build a
Linux/palm whiteboard application (drawing on a common canvas).

I don't know if it was the data connection or perhaps the Palm V or even
my fault, but there were horrible ping times (latency) on the connection.
Therefor I would start by creating a tiny "GSM data ping" application 



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Fw: Re: Hardware/Software UI Relationship

[Giles Jones]

>The terminal must be functional. I'll have a look at the code >and whether I 
>can add something like this to play with.

Assignable buttons at the top of the terminal would be handy, allow the user to 
assign the most common commands.

---
G O Jones





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Re: Hardware/Software UI Relationship

[Frans Grotepass]

On Wednesday 18 July 2007 09:50, Giles Jones wrote:
> > My favourite for main UI is a text input tool at the bottom, where you
> > input a progressive search term, say "we br"... That might match:
> >
> > web browser (app)
> > tux web broadcast (web bookmark, document)
> > Werner Brown (contact)
> > Wera Brooks (contact)
> > Wera Brooks at the pub (photo, document)
> > etc..
> >
> > The matching object is shown on top and selectable. Size on those object
> > can depend on number of matches and can be compacted in intelligent ways
> > like: [contacts 3] [document 12] [apps 2]
>
> That sounds very similar to QuickSilver on the Mac, it works really well.
> You start typing and then it provides matching documents, webpages,
> applications etc.. it's very fast.

I have no experience with the Mac, but playing around with the emu did bring
up a few questions/alterations that would be nice.

I checked out the terminal, but found it almost impossible to use with the
Qwerty kb without tab completion. It would be nice to have a dropdown box
instead of the tabcompletion. One or more dropdown boxes appear. At first
only one to select the command. The command receives a shortlist determined
by qwerty entries. After selecting the command, more dialogues apear. one for
the options and one or more for the other command entries. From the options
one can select an option and it gets added to the commandline. Command
entries are often entering a path. It starts with the / and one can select
the path per dir. The command gets expanded and pressing enter executes it.

The terminal must be functional. I'll have a look at the code and whether I
can add something like this to play with.



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Re: projects of interest? - mebot

[Emre Turkay]

I'm planning to use it to implement a GTD[1] utility.

Imagine an application showing an action to do. There are three
buttons, "done" (I've done it delete from the queue), "defer" (defer
it to a later time), "cancel" (there is no need to do this anymore, or
it requires further thinking). When any one of these buttons is
clicked the next action item brought forward.

Now, imagine, combining this with GPS. In this case, it shows me stuff
I should do at home, when I'm home and stuff I should do at work, when
I'm at work. Pop up my feed-reader when I'm traveling, etc.

Consider there is a simple market-list application, in which I note
the stuff I need to buy from market, time to time. When I approach to
the market moko starts an audio alert and tells me to stop by the
market to buy stuff. When I enter the market automatically pops up my
market list.

I'm thinking about a plug-in architecture so you can extend this idea
as far as it goes, bugzilla integration, mail client integration, web
browser integration, integration with an outliner/mindmapper, project
planner, tomboy, etc. Every new plug-in will open a door to another
cool idea.

Started to write it a couple weeks ago, got a sourceforge account[2].
There is a very trivial demonstration application on subversion and as
a tarball download.

If there is anybody interested I would love to discuss.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gtd
[2] http://mebot.sourceforge.net

emre

On 7/17/07, Daniel Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

What are the projects of interest for people?

I am interested in working on kid's phones.  I have wanted a kid's phone
that was not as brain-dead as the phones that are currently targeted at
children.  I like that the Neo1973 has a secure tether point.  I want the
phone to be tethered to my kid's backpack or clothing so it can't be lost or
stolen.

In terms of software, I want to work on GPS related things.  It would be
good to know where my kids are and when they exit certain zones, e.g.,
school.

--Dan

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Sorting out development interests

[Daniel Robinson]

I asked the question yesteday about what people wanted to do with the
OpenMoko project and a lot of people added to the thread.  The wiki
has areas for many of the things that were mentioned.
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List

Check it out and add your project or fillout an existing project area
with your thoughts.

I think the thing that is missing is for people to find collaborators
to work on these projects.  Is this the right forum?

--Dan

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Re: Free OpenMoko...

[Ian Stirling]

Miquel Herrera wrote:



Vincent wrote:
...


On 17/07/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:





I don't think we should register those because if those were really to
be used you can be sure a lot of people will end up on
freeopenmoko.com instead.



But it could be good to register and not used, to avoid proliferation of 
fraudulent pages


OpenMoko _is_ trademarked, isn't it?

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Re: projects of interest?

[Ian Stirling]

Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:

On 7/17/07, Giles Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


We need a good use for GPS, I want something like Tomtom but this



How about POI[1] tracking?
Simple idea: when the Neo user enters a POI, she or he presses a
button (read: starts a program), the GPS waypoint is recorded, perhaps
the program asks about a name / refence for the POI, then the waypoint
and other data is sent to the user's preferred server (using GPRS, SMS
or whatever comms is possible) for storage.
Possible uses: can be combined with Google Maps or something like that
to give other people an idea of the "travel route" you have followed.

When there is an OpenMoko phone with WLAN, info about any currently
usable WLANs can also be sent

1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_of_interest

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS_Navigation
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openstreetmap


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Re: projects of interest?

[Ian Stirling]

Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:

On 7/17/07, Giles Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


We need a good use for GPS, I want something like Tomtom but this



How about POI[1] tracking?
Simple idea: when the Neo user enters a POI, she or he presses a
button (read: starts a program), the GPS waypoint is recorded, perhaps
the program asks about a name / refence for the POI, then the waypoint
and other data is sent to the user's preferred server (using GPRS, SMS
or whatever comms is possible) for storage.
Possible uses: can be combined with Google Maps or something like that
to give other people an idea of the "travel route" you have followed.

When there is an OpenMoko phone with WLAN, info about any currently
usable WLANs can also be sent

1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_of_interest


http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openstreetmap
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS_Navigation

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Re: Free OpenMoko...

[Vincent]

On 18/07/07, Miquel Herrera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Vincent wrote:
...
> On 17/07/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>
> I don't think we should register those because if those were really to
> be used you can be sure a lot of people will end up on
> freeopenmoko.com instead.
>

But it could be good to register and not used, to avoid proliferation of
fraudulent pages



True, but then again, I don't think you'll be able to avoid that
anyway. You can come up with lots of such domains...


Kind regards
Miquel




--
Vincent

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Re: Free OpenMoko...

[Miquel Herrera]

Vincent wrote:
...

On 17/07/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:




I don't think we should register those because if those were really to
be used you can be sure a lot of people will end up on
freeopenmoko.com instead.



But it could be good to register and not used, to avoid proliferation of 
fraudulent pages


Kind regards
Miquel

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Re: Build environment with MokoMakefile on FreeBSD / amd64?

[cedric cellier]

-[ Wed, Jul 18, 2007 at 10:00:41AM +0200, Torfinn Ingolfsen ]
> Hello,
> Has anyone successfully built openmoko-devel-image with a build
> environment installed on FreeBSD / amd64?

On the same arch I just had openmoko run on qemu, following
this advice :
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:OpenMoko_under_QEMU#FreeBSD_and_last_qemu...

I don't think that helps.


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