Re: another GPS idea - speed-sensitive voicemail
This suggests that altitude might be something to check as well, though as someone else pointed out that's a little late to enable flight mode :) Why do you always think of planes when speaking of altitude? What about Mountain-climbing? Paragliding? Deltaplanes? Private Ultralight-Planes? Blimps? Altitude would also be cool for skiers: if it's increasing, leave phone calls in (i'm on the lift). If it's decreasing, block them (i'm skiing and don't want to be annyoed). All this features configurable on a per-contact-basis would be cool (don't let my wife call me when i'm skiing, ..) -- My corner of the web: http://ramsesoriginal.wordpress.com My dream, my world: http://abenu.wordpress.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Neo Pouch
I found an interesting strip inside of the neoPouch. Last but not least we can fix our stylus there :) OT: My phone received at about 09:30 :) and I'm from Germany ... -homyx -- for Windows problems reboot for Linux problems be root ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Finger Graffiti
On Jul 30, 2007, at 7:50 AM, Rod Whitby wrote: Ah cripes, who freaking *CARES* about the Graffiti trademark .. Hmm ... someone could just as well say: Ah cripes, who freaking *CARES* about the OpenMoko trademark .. Is someone actually developing something which uses the OpenMoko properties? I don't think so. Doesn't sound so good when you say it that way, does it? I'm not saying don't be trademark-sensitive, I'm saying that worrying about the Graffiti trademark is irrelevant, because nobody is putting, actually, Graffiti into anything. There are plenty of Graffiti alternatives around .. it just happens that Graffiti is what people know finger painting on your PDA to be .. its common enough to warrant usage as a word referring to the activity of finger- painting symbols for recognition on a devices surface. Graffiti, itself, is useless to us. Similar techniques which do not violate anyones rights are useful; to discuss, to implement, and hopefully to use. Note that David didn't accuse anyone of breaching trademark rights, he simply pointed out that OpenMoko (or anyone else for that matter other than the trademark holder) should be careful not to release any software package with the trademarked term Graffiti in it's name. And he said he would only say it once, so as not to annoy people by continually harping on it. It would have been wonderful advice if there is actually some release going on. Don't forget that OpenMoko is a company too. You can't favour and protect one companies trademarks and not do the same for another. I don't care about the trademark issue until there is actually something to attach a mark to. So far, there is nothing in this direction. All I care about is that the technical creativity not be stifled by legalese so soon in the game .. ; ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Finger Graffiti
Worrying about worrying about the trademark issue is even more irrelevant. Pointing things like this out early is a good thing. Further discussion about the trademark issue isn't necessary, though, it's annoying. Ortwin On 7/30/07, Jay Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 30, 2007, at 7:50 AM, Rod Whitby wrote: Ah cripes, who freaking *CARES* about the Graffiti trademark .. Hmm ... someone could just as well say: Ah cripes, who freaking *CARES* about the OpenMoko trademark .. Is someone actually developing something which uses the OpenMoko properties? I don't think so. Doesn't sound so good when you say it that way, does it? I'm not saying don't be trademark-sensitive, I'm saying that worrying about the Graffiti trademark is irrelevant, because nobody is putting, actually, Graffiti into anything. There are plenty of Graffiti alternatives around .. it just happens that Graffiti is what people know finger painting on your PDA to be .. its common enough to warrant usage as a word referring to the activity of finger- painting symbols for recognition on a devices surface. Graffiti, itself, is useless to us. Similar techniques which do not violate anyones rights are useful; to discuss, to implement, and hopefully to use. Note that David didn't accuse anyone of breaching trademark rights, he simply pointed out that OpenMoko (or anyone else for that matter other than the trademark holder) should be careful not to release any software package with the trademarked term Graffiti in it's name. And he said he would only say it once, so as not to annoy people by continually harping on it. It would have been wonderful advice if there is actually some release going on. Don't forget that OpenMoko is a company too. You can't favour and protect one companies trademarks and not do the same for another. I don't care about the trademark issue until there is actually something to attach a mark to. So far, there is nothing in this direction. All I care about is that the technical creativity not be stifled by legalese so soon in the game .. ; ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Finger Graffiti
Agreed. So can we try to maintain focus on the immediate tactical and technical advances that we can actually accomplish? ; On Jul 30, 2007, at 12:21 PM, Ortwin Regel wrote: Worrying about worrying about the trademark issue is even more irrelevant. Pointing things like this out early is a good thing. Further discussion about the trademark issue isn't necessary, though, it's annoying. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Finger Graffiti
On 30 Jul 2007, at 11:21, Ortwin Regel wrote: Worrying about worrying about the trademark issue is even more irrelevant. Pointing things like this out early is a good thing. Further discussion about the trademark issue isn't necessary, though, it's annoying. What if they contribute software to the project and then claim it infringes their patents? I just think it's a bit rich to be following this project if you don't care about creative freedom. I'd much sooner create a new input system anyway. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Board only option in October?
Harald Welte wrote: On Sun, Jul 29, 2007 at 03:07:44PM -0400, Kyle Bassett wrote: Harald, I am curious, what do you estimate the cost (as a percentage or dollar amount) that the GTA02 board kit would run compared to the expected $450 base price? I do prefer your idea about selling the GTA01Bv4 instead of upgrading...some people would just rather do it themselves...bragging rights? ;) I'd expect that upgrade kit would have to be at least 350USD. So as long as you can sell the GTA01 for more than 100USD, it should be better to do so. Also, given the low quantities we run at this time, it would really hurt us to see that many GTA01 going to the junkyard. If the old ones get sold, we increase the population of Neo's. If we take them apart and re-use, we don't get more devices deployed.. On a related topic. I would like to see a bare GTA01 board being available - even after GTA02 becomes available. Low-power, small board with GSM, USB, and even a parallel LCD connector that may be suitable to some other displays. I haven't seen anything at a similar price-point - say $200? This would be a bare board in a cardboard box, in an anti-static bag. Absolutely nothing else. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GTA01 first impressions
I just got my Neo (yay)! First impressions: Flashing is frustratingly slow when you want to get tinkering ;) But really, the phone itself is a lot faster than I expected what with all the complaints; granted, optimizations may have crept in since then, but anyway I didn't feel it especially painful to use. Now, I'm used to the s60 N-gage, which may blind me to the lack of instant snappiness which _was_ present. ;] So it's not like it couldn't use improvement, just that it's not _that_ bad, IMAO. Of course, I haven't used it much yet, so my mileage may vary. I managed to even make a call. Well, three, but the first were quite silent. I loaded up the ALSA mobile phone profile settings and called again, this time from the libgsm-cli (though apparently the calls from GUI did also go through, just with the silence). This resulted in massive feedback, but some words were able to be transmitted. On IRC a developer who shall remain anonymous mentioned that oh yeah, he'd had a phone with the earpiece shot, so he put the audio out of the stereo speakers (_right_ next to the mic) instead, and that seems to have ended up in a root image... At least there should be easy to fix then ;) For now, got a prepaid SIM for my Neo playing, not replacing my usual phone _just_ yet. USB networking works out of the box (well, after flashing), which is nice. Oh, and the Freedom Mini Bluetooth keyboard did snap, with its spring-hinge, the Neo solidly enough. Neo's bluetooth seemed disabled when I tried to run hidd, and I left it at that for now (BT was recognized during bootup, though, so I don't think it's faulty, probably just needs enabling). Further tinkering will have to wait until tonight. Thanks to the team; it's been a rocky road (I'm sure I don't even know how rocky exactly), and longer than expected, but a significant milestone has been reached. And it don't seem half bad. -- Mikko J Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Finger Graffiti
Jay Vaughan wrote: it just happens that Graffiti is what people know finger painting on your PDA to be .. its common enough to warrant usage as a word referring to the activity of finger-painting symbols for recognition on a devices surface. No, sorry, this is incorrect, and precisely _why_ I have to point out that Graffiti is a registered trademark: it is _not_ a generic term for finger painting on your PDA, Graffiti refers to a specific writing system and implementation of that system, and no other. The reason for mentioning trademark status is specifically to keep it from _becoming_ a generic term (like zipper, kleenex and, to an extent, xerox, have become generic terms), and is something which, as I've said, holding a trademark obligates the owner to do. Sean and team will be obliged to do precisely the same sort of thing if they become aware of someone (mis)using the OpenMoko trademark in some way that they didn't intend. This is basic trademark law, I'm afraid. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA01 first impressions
On Jul 30, 2007, at 1:28 PM, Mikko J Rauhala wrote: Further tinkering will have to wait until tonight. Thanks to the team; it's been a rocky road (I'm sure I don't even know how rocky exactly), and longer than expected, but a significant milestone has been reached. And it don't seem half bad. Really Super review, you're making me extra anxious to receive mine .. Anyone in Austria also waiting in the queue? ; ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Finger Graffiti
I just think it's a bit rich to be following this project if you don't care about creative freedom. I'd much sooner create a new input system anyway. i'm rather fond of using xyz position sensors to roll balls around word-chains, myself .. in my opinion there definitely ought to be more 'game' in the interface of handheld toys, and we all know games riff and rip freely at great will, regardless of mark nor trade. that said, i don't really think the limits have even been moderately primped in regards to handling the touch-screen in responsive ways. yes, stylus+WIMP==short-term hack but deep down inside we all long for the true death of windows (based GUI's) in the pocket. as we are definitely seeing around the gadget-sphere, any action that comes naturally for the user is far more progressively used. the iPhone, for example, is definitely one for wankers and twiddlers, if you'll pardon my deutsch .. ; ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Finger Graffiti
Giles Jones wrote: Except that OpenMoko is a completely made up phrase which has no other use in the English language. That's completely irrelevant, I'm afraid. (By the way, there was a Cafe Moko right around the corner from my hotel in London; I've got a picture of the sign someplace...) Graffiti is a dictionary word. Trademarks against dictionary words are stupid. Microsoft should never have been able to trademark Windows either. Trademarks exist in specific contexts for particular usages, they're not a global thing. I'm obligated to deal with trademark law as I find it; if you wish it were something different, you'll need to write your Congressional representative... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Finger Graffiti
On 30 Jul 2007, at 15:35, David Lefty Schlesinger wrote: Trademarks exist in specific contexts for particular usages, they're not a global thing. I'm obligated to deal with trademark law as I find it; if you wish it were something different, you'll need to write your Congressional representative... So by using fingers instead of a stylus we're not talking about the same use case anyway. I'm in England, so there's no such thing as a congressional representative. MP is the term here, don't assume everyone is from the US. Are you policing this project for violations? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Finger Graffiti
So by using fingers instead of a stylus we're not talking about the same use case anyway. That's certainly not clear to me. Are you policing this project for violations? Not at all, that's a silly idea; as I've said, I simply _am_ obligated to point out when a trademark held by my employer is being misused, and that's simply a condition of having the trademark. My credentials aren't at issue: I've got a long-standing involvement in the community, I've presented at both the Ottawa Linux Symposium and at GUADEC (of which ACCESS was a sponsor) this year, I'm on the GNOME Foundation's Advisory Board and I'm the chair of the Linux Foundation's Mobile Working Group and vice-chair of the Linux Phone Standards Forum's Architectural Working Group. I've been on this list pretty much since it existed, and as Sean can confirm, I've had a long-term interest in the project--he and I have chatted on numerous occasions, and while I'm still waiting for _my_ unit, I can hang on a while longer... Let me add that there was = interest expressed by Mickey Lauer at GUADEC week before last in using some of the Hiker Project components--which we have made available under an open source license--in OpenMoko, something I'd certainly encourage. Let's be clear: nobody's violated anything. I felt it was necessary to give a heads-up that heading too far in the direction you seem to be trying to stake out (i.e. Graffiti _shouldn't_ be a trademark or We're using the term in some slightly nuanced way and claiming it's a 'different use case') could be potentially troublesome, if the upshot of it were to wind up amounting to the creation of a test case of either of those notions. If, say, I _didn't_ point this out and, based on the discussion, someone started a handwriting-related project called moko-graffiti or something, that _would_ be troublesome. Just sayin'. I think I've pretty much made the issues clear, and there doesn't seem to be anything useful being added here. If anyone wants to delve further into this, they're welcome to email me off-list. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Finger Graffiti
On Jul 30, 2007, at 4:35 PM, David Lefty Schlesinger wrote: Trademarks exist in specific contexts for particular usages, they're not a global thing. I'm obligated to deal with trademark law as I find it; if you wish it were something different, you'll need to write your Congressional representative... US Congress is a fictionary hussle perpetuated by criminals somewhere over the horizon, in many decent places. 1000-moko airdrop over zimbabwe in t-minus, 54 .. 53 .. 52 .. ; ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Finger Graffiti
On 30 Jul 2007, at 16:08, David Schlesinger wrote: Not at all, that's a silly idea; as I've said, I simply _am_ obligated to point out when a trademark held by my employer is being misused, and that's simply a condition of having the trademark. True, but these are just ramblings, the inner workings of a project. I'm sure at Microsoft they don't avoid using people's trademarks in internal discussions? It is the individual who mentions the idea and implements it who is responsible for it. If the OpenMoko project decides to merge it into the core code then it becomes the responsibility of the project. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Finger Graffiti
Bah, forget graffiti! It's too difficult; the computer should be able to help you with it, but it doesn't. It essentially says do this unnecessary work. Using graffiti is like using a help file. (And I have a pretty long rant on those somewhere). If a really clever person sat down and drew lots of pictures, he might come up with a good messag-ease-inspired input method where fingers are moved in patterns similar to real letters. Letters start being drawn from different places (or at least in different directions), so instead of graffiti, it could be like connect-the-dots. Start your letter in one point, a bunch of dots appear that you can drag your finger to, with labels for what letters those dots would lead to. For example, one dot may be labelled I, while another could be labelled L U. You could drag to the I dot and lift your finger right there to get the letter I (or keep dragging if more dots exist for that letter, though there wouldn't be much point). If you drag to the L U dot, new dots appear out of that one for the letters L and U; drag your finger to the one you want, as with I. Graphically, there would be no static keyboard graphic; the keyboard would not obscure the screen but rather expand (smoothly) when in use. This would save screen space /and/ look cool. All the different letters could be tied into a nice little database which would contain the paths for different letters. Still no ability to lift one's finger, but since the input would be completely guided, that would not hurt like it does with graffiti! To easily look up letters, paths in the database would have to intersect, consistently, at specific points. I guess a grid (where the size of each box is recorded somewhere) would work there. Thus, each letter in the database would have a whole bunch of grid points stored in the order they must be touched. A program could generate the point that one must be moving from to reach a certain grid point for a letter. Otherwise, completely unrelated letters would pop up from points that happen to intersect with other points! (For example, I on point 0,-3 would require contact last with point 0,3). Some kind of tree would have to exist, generated by a magical program (once), using that direction information, saying what letters can be led to from other letters. That would be entirely to speed things along in the case of really big alphabets, so the computer doesn't have to look through every single letter in the database. For example, I at 0,-3 leads to L and is the end of the path for I. Point 0,3 leads to a lot of letters; I, L, J, U, etc. (Sorry, I seem to have changed the story from that first example :p As I said, we would need someone clever to sit down and figure out the connections). Bye, -Dylan McCall On 7/30/07, David Schlesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So by using fingers instead of a stylus we're not talking about the same use case anyway. That's certainly not clear to me. Are you policing this project for violations? Not at all, that's a silly idea; as I've said, I simply _am_ obligated to point out when a trademark held by my employer is being misused, and that's simply a condition of having the trademark. My credentials aren't at issue: I've got a long-standing involvement in the community, I've presented at both the Ottawa Linux Symposium and at GUADEC (of which ACCESS was a sponsor) this year, I'm on the GNOME Foundation's Advisory Board and I'm the chair of the Linux Foundation's Mobile Working Group and vice-chair of the Linux Phone Standards Forum's Architectural Working Group. I've been on this list pretty much since it existed, and as Sean can confirm, I've had a long-term interest in the project--he and I have chatted on numerous occasions, and while I'm still waiting for _my_ unit, I can hang on a while longer... Let me add that there was = interest expressed by Mickey Lauer at GUADEC week before last in using some of the Hiker Project components--which we have made available under an open source license--in OpenMoko, something I'd certainly encourage. Let's be clear: nobody's violated anything. I felt it was necessary to give a heads-up that heading too far in the direction you seem to be trying to stake out (i.e. Graffiti _shouldn't_ be a trademark or We're using the term in some slightly nuanced way and claiming it's a 'different use case') could be potentially troublesome, if the upshot of it were to wind up amounting to the creation of a test case of either of those notions. If, say, I _didn't_ point this out and, based on the discussion, someone started a handwriting-related project called moko-graffiti or something, that _would_ be troublesome. Just sayin'. I think I've pretty much made the issues clear, and there doesn't seem to be anything useful being added here. If anyone wants to delve further into this, they're welcome to email me off-list. ___ OpenMoko community
Re: another GPS idea - speed-sensitive voicemail (Power usage)
While I do find most of the GPS based ideas intriguing I do have one comment. Power usage! I wonder if you have realised that the GPS consumes large quantities of current. (45 mW according to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Power_Management#Approximate_power_draw_of_various_subsystems) The 1200mAh battery will be drained in 1200mAh/(45mW/3.7V) = 98h ~= 4 days And this is for the GPS receiver alone and no power conversion losses, but GPS reception also requires CPU power.. If the CPU @ slow mode is 50mW and the GSM at idle is 30mW, then I would consider 45mW quite an addition power drain. It of course gets even worse if the GSM can wake the CPU from SYS_POWER_SLEEP http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Power_Management#SYS_POWER_SLEEP Hence only the GSM has to be active? (plus some minor power drain for the CPU) That said I might actually still opt to have my standby time cut to 33-50% ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Finger Graffiti
Giles Jones writes: Are you policing this project for violations? Look, he pointed out a potential trademark issue, which will have to be considered if some sort of ungraffiti is to be distributed. There really isn't any reason to keep going on about it. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
imei number
Hi folks, Does anybody know how can I see the IMEI number? Thanks, emre ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: another GPS idea - speed-sensitive voicemail (Power usage)
On 30 Jul 2007, at 16:45, Visti Andresen wrote: While I do find most of the GPS based ideas intriguing I do have one comment. Power usage! Then you simply have an update timer. Tell the phone to update it's position at a configurable time period, say every 5 minutes. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Finger Graffiti
Are you policing this project for violations? Look, he pointed out a potential trademark issue, which will have to be considered if some sort of ungraffiti is to be distributed. There really isn't any reason to keep going on about it. right. so how would this ungraffiti work, exactly? what about if there's a camera, we move the camera around some handy dot, say the Sun (tm) for example, and use it to paint ungraffiti into some sort of action queue? ; ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: imei number
On 30 Jul 2007, at 17:05, Emre Turkay wrote: Hi folks, Does anybody know how can I see the IMEI number? Thanks, emre Tried *#06# ? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: imei number
At least on my phone, this was printed out underneath the battery, inside the case :) cheers! -scott Emre Turkay wrote: Hi folks, Does anybody know how can I see the IMEI number? Thanks, emre ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: imei number
Hi, On 7/30/07, Scott Rushforth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At least on my phone, this was printed out underneath the battery, inside the case :) Just in case! I believe you can also use AT+CGSN. SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko future.
On 07/29/2007 Jim McDonald wrote: [...] We want to build _the_ best open mobile device in the world. 100% open. Only when we reach this point will our strengths be appreciated by the mainstream user. I understand the thinking here, but the mainstream user will neither know nor care about open source. If a 'phone is available that fixes a lot of the existing hideousness within UIs, if a 'phone is available that allows people to do what they want with it, if a 'phone is available that allows them to make calls at the best prices without suffering the whims of the network operators, *that* is when it will be appreciated by the mainstream user. Of course that I understand that open source is the way that openmoko is going to use to enable these things, and also that without a solid foundation it won't be possible to do so, but there needs to be some focus on getting there rather than just having a cool 'phone. And although we wouldn't expect to sit back for someone else to make this a reality we would hope for support where required. I think that what makes us different (both as a company and a community) is our understanding of FOSS. This is the reason why we created this device and platform. And I think it's our responsibility to educate the general public as to why an open phone is important. Neo (and OpenMoko) will change this industry not because it will scroll or look sexier than the iphone. Not because we will build a better device than Nokia. But because it will allow us all to rewrite (again and again) the rules until we come up with the next thing -- something more than the phone. This is what we mean when we say free your phone. We will turn the phone into something that far excedes the power of what most people (even myself) ever thought possible. FOSS will be the tool that will get us there. We must not forget this. It is our greatest strength. Always, remember the three requirements of making a kick ass brand: focus. focus. focus ;-) -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko future.
On 07/30/2007 Mark Arvidson wrote: [snip] Freeing the phone to be a platform, not just a crude, limited tool is where this project needs to go. It may seem like a slow couple of years before this really infects our entire culture, but I think it's inevitable now. Exactly! -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: another GPS idea - speed-sensitive voicemail (Power usage)
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:59:51 +0100 Ian Stirling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Visti Andresen wrote: While I do find most of the GPS based ideas intriguing I do have one comment. Power usage! I wonder if you have realised that the GPS consumes large quantities of current. (45 mW according to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Power_Management#Approximate_power_draw_of_various_subsystems) The 1200mAh battery will be drained in 1200mAh/(45mW/3.7V) = 98h ~= 4 days And this is for the GPS receiver alone and no power conversion losses, but GPS reception also requires CPU power.. This is not quite correct. The GPS can be turned off and on. 45mW is for continuous positioning, 1s/45s will give completely fine positions, though not as accurate as if it was on for longer. If the 'Resume in under 1s' from sleep entry on the table at the front of the above page is done, then the numbers change again. If it takes 350mW for 1s to wake the device, and then 80mW for another second (CPU in slow mode and GPS on) that's 430mWs. One position per 45s, that's some 9mW average, or around 5% of the battery per day. It seems likely from the basic figures that this can be stretched to 1s wake every 3 minutes or so, for around 1.5%/day. After this, you need to wake up for more than a second to keep the position current, so after 3 minutes, the next halving in battery use might end up at 4 hours or so. This can also do bluetooth and WiFi polling of course (at a slight power cost) But does a GPS not require large amounts of time to get a new fix? Hot startup 12s, average Warm startup 38s, average Cold startup 60s, average (random data from http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/11694061/Bluetooth_GPS_Receiver.html) I must admit I don't know when one needs to reacquire the fix... Of course even a 38s/60s power consumption reduction would be quite noticeable, even if one has to switch to continues operation when moving (in order to notify me that I have to pickup groceries) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: another GPS idea - speed-sensitive voicemail (Power usage)
Visti Andresen wrote: On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:59:51 +0100 Ian Stirling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Visti Andresen wrote: While I do find most of the GPS based ideas intriguing I do have one comment. Power usage! I wonder if you have realised that the GPS consumes large quantities of current. (45 mW according to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Power_Management#Approximate_power_draw_of_various_subsystems) The 1200mAh battery will be drained in 1200mAh/(45mW/3.7V) = 98h ~= 4 days And this is for the GPS receiver alone and no power conversion losses, but GPS reception also requires CPU power.. This is not quite correct. The GPS can be turned off and on. 45mW is for continuous positioning, 1s/45s will give completely fine positions, though not as accurate as if it was on for longer. If the 'Resume in under 1s' from sleep entry on the table at the front of the above page is done, then the numbers change again. If it takes 350mW for 1s to wake the device, and then 80mW for another second (CPU in slow mode and GPS on) that's 430mWs. One position per 45s, that's some 9mW average, or around 5% of the battery per day. It seems likely from the basic figures that this can be stretched to 1s wake every 3 minutes or so, for around 1.5%/day. After this, you need to wake up for more than a second to keep the position current, so after 3 minutes, the next halving in battery use might end up at 4 hours or so. This can also do bluetooth and WiFi polling of course (at a slight power cost) But does a GPS not require large amounts of time to get a new fix? Look at the Hammerhead/Protocol page on the wiki. As a very brief recap, not if you have a sufficiently good knowledge of where the satellites are, and the local clock has not drifted by more than 1/3ms or so. (I'm involved in the reverse engineering of the GPS chip) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: another GPS idea - speed-sensitive voicemail (Power usage)
On 30 Jul 2007, at 17:54, Visti Andresen wrote: But does a GPS not require large amounts of time to get a new fix? Hot startup 12s, average Warm startup 38s, average Cold startup 60s, average (random data from http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/11694061/ Bluetooth_GPS_Receiver.html) Depends if you have assistance from the cell network or not. It also depends on when you last obtained a fix. I don't see that 12 seconds would be too bad for location based services. 12 seconds after entering your workplace the phone mutes etc.. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: imei number
Thanks, I looked all over /dev/ ;) emre On 7/30/07, Shakthi Kannan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, On 7/30/07, Scott Rushforth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At least on my phone, this was printed out underneath the battery, inside the case :) Just in case! I believe you can also use AT+CGSN. SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 3G plans
On Sun, 2007-07-29 at 15:14 -0500, Adam Krikstone wrote: I see no mention of GTA03 (2.5G/EDGE?), GTX01/02 (3G?) on the official wiki anymore. http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counterredirect=no#Other_future_devices Another: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/HXD8 I would rather take Quadband EDGE and UMA hardware over 3G as it is going to become difficult as carriers in the US and around the world deploy 3G on different bands e.g. only AWS 3G for US Tmobile. http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/aws/index.php?p=b What is wrong with quadband edge/grps along with 3g(umts)/hsdpa like my current phone has? It is going to be REALLY hard going back to sub64k speeds after having over a megabit -Greg ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
UPS tracking number wrong, but [EMAIL PROTECTED] responds permission denied
I tried to reply to my Order shipped message, since the UPS tracking number listed in the message is not recognized by UPS's online package tracking app (it says the number is not a valid tracking number), but [EMAIL PROTECTED] responded Permission denied (see below). How can I get a correct shipping number? -myk Original Message Subject:Message not recorded Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 22:58:33 +0200 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Permission Denied ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [UI/Graphics] Ever heard of graff ?
On 7/27/07, Florent THIERY [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I never heard about it, but it looks interesting (following the
physics-inspired/verlet integration ramble some months ago on this
very list)
http://www.mdk.org.pl/articles/2007/04/23/chapter-1-in-which-we-meet-graff
Be sure to check out this one (scrolling list with inertia scrolling)
http://files.mdk.am/demos/graff-demo-3.avi
No mention of OpenGL ES, but software rendering seems to be sufficient
on Nokia 770/800. Let's wait for more news of graff (any additional
data would be appreciated), and code. But it looks definetly promising
!
A python app, tracker backend, using graff (clutter/evas) as frontend,
with gtk offscreen rendering and builtin mutimedia support (gstreamer
or whatever lighter) ... Makes you want to have a GTA02 already :)
Speaking of which
* jnpatel's arena will be a clutter tracker frontend with direct
webservices integration (ex: flickr).
http://njpatel.blogspot.com/2007/03/im-not-even-supposed-to-be-here-today.html
* some nice clutter toys news:
http://njpatel.blogspot.com/2007/07/clutter-foo.html
Any benchmarking news ?
Sorry being late to reply, but I was out for few days.
I've not seen any code for Graff and that demo for sure don't run on
N800, but flash, we do some prototype here using it too.
Cairo, as suggested, will not be an option in near future, since it
does 32bpp graphics and the conversion will kill our hardware.
I'm working on Evas for embedded systems and have it working for
Maemo/Nokia N800 using software_16 (which I wrote with help of
rasterman), python bindings and even some examples (with source
available):
http://blog.gustavobarbieri.com.br/2007/07/24/iphone-like-virtual-keyboard-for-n800/
you may also search for EFL on my blog history and see expedite
(benchmark) demo running.
all the code ({evas,ecore_evas,etk,ewl}/software_16, python-efl,
demos) is being done in e17 CVS, so code is already integrated and is
available under BSD license for those who care.
I work for INdT, thus our focus is Maemo/Nokia products. We have at
least 3 guys working with EFL, fixing bugs and writing tests and
prototype for our next version of Canola. But I know of Koen, Mickey
and Rasterman working with openmoko hw and they may report status on
this hardware (which I still don't have).
--
Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri
--
Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ#: 17249123
Skype: gsbarbieri
Mobile: +55 (81) 9927 0010
___
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Re: UPS tracking number wrong, but [EMAIL PROTECTED] responds permission denied
The number they gave you was probably issued to them by their UPS shipping program or from their shipping book. If it hasn't been picked up yet and processed by UPS' shipping system, it won't be recognized. Check back at the end of the day and you should be good to go. On 7/30/07, Myk Melez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I tried to reply to my Order shipped message, since the UPS tracking number listed in the message is not recognized by UPS's online package tracking app (it says the number is not a valid tracking number), but [EMAIL PROTECTED] responded Permission denied (see below). How can I get a correct shipping number? -myk ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What is the FCC ID of the neo1973?
ma, 2007-07-30 kello 15:51 -0500, Adam Krikstone kirjoitti: I see no mention of it anywhere on the wiki or lists. Does anyone know the FCC ID? The unit I received today has a sticker saying FCC ID: EUNGTA01BV4 -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What is the FCC ID of the neo1973?
mine has it printed under the battery: fcc id: EUNGTA01BV4 cheers -scott Adam Krikstone wrote: I see no mention of it anywhere on the wiki or lists. Does anyone know the FCC ID? -adam ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: UPS tracking number wrong, but [EMAIL PROTECTED] responds permission denied
Lon Lentz wrote: The number they gave you was probably issued to them by their UPS shipping program or from their shipping book. If it hasn't been picked up yet and processed by UPS' shipping system, it won't be recognized. Check back at the end of the day and you should be good to go. Hmm, yeah, I've run into that before, but I got the email on July 26, four days ago, so I don't think that's the problem. -myk ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [UI/Graphics] Ever heard of graff ?
Cairo, as suggested, will not be an option in near future, since it does 32bpp graphics and the conversion will kill our hardware. fwiw, its quite feasible to do nice assembly-based BPP conversion on ARM and involves a decidedly negligible hit on performance .. don't count cairo out of the libpack just yet .. ; ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Total Control over the phone
On the wiki, I've seen this information (assumption): http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counterredirect=no#P2_.28GTA02.29 snip GTA02 Hardware: Probably: New power management (Upgrade or change: Should now allow to remove power completely from GSM part) snip Does it mean that, in GTA01, we can totally switch off the GSM part to prevent a 'switch on' ordered by the carrier? But not on GTA02? Any pointer to the source of this information (IRC, maillist,...)? Regards, Le samedi 28 avril 2007 à 03:44 +0200, kenneth marken a écrit : Marco Miani wrote: snip I recently bought a Motorola Motofone F3 and my carrier ( Vodafone Italy ) called me for a firmware upgrade because the cellphone sends periodically an sms to a UK number, even if the phone is power off. Call me paranoid but I don't like a features like this. If my phone is power off, it must be like death . given that more and more phones use a soft key like power switch. the only way to be 100% sure a phone is dead is to yank the battery iirc. snip ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
US: T-Mobile plans
This is addressed to people who have successfully navigated t-mobile's thicket: wouldn't it be nice if their web page gave good, complete, technical information? Anyway, my reading of their page is that to get web access on the phone I need to add their T-MobileWeb service, but I don't need their T-Mobile Internet? The latter clearly includes features I don't need: unlimited wi-fi hotspot access, for instance. But the former mumbles about the mobile internet, so I wonder if there's some filtering going on distinguishing the mobile internet from the whole thing. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: US: T-Mobile plans
More info than you probably want: http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=518666 http://wiki.howardforums.com/index.php/T-Mobile http://www.howardforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=52 Joe Pfeiffer wrote: This is addressed to people who have successfully navigated t-mobile's thicket: wouldn't it be nice if their web page gave good, complete, technical information? Anyway, my reading of their page is that to get web access on the phone I need to add their T-MobileWeb service, but I don't need their T-Mobile Internet? The latter clearly includes features I don't need: unlimited wi-fi hotspot access, for instance. But the former mumbles about the mobile internet, so I wonder if there's some filtering going on distinguishing the mobile internet from the whole thing. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Board only option in October?
Ian Stirling wrote: I would like to see a bare GTA01 board being available - even after GTA02 becomes available. There was some previous mention of available parts. I'd like to be able to buy the plastic case. That way I would have the option of possibly doing a little hardware hacking along with case modding, but still have the option to go back to the stock case. Looking at the Photos of the current version, the processor appears to be BGA. That'll make some things a bit hard. It'd be really nice if FIC routed any unused pins out from under the chip for us, *if* they have the board real estate for it. There's still a lot of interesting things that could be done with the existing available interfaces. Anybody have any clue how many layers the PCB is? (just curious) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: US: T-Mobile plans
Dan Trevino writes: I have their $5.99 internet plan working with my unsupported Treo 680. After reading the posts to howardforums (thanks Adam!), I have to ask: when you say it's working, does that mean you can go to an arbitrary URL and see what's there? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Where's the Micro-SD?
Not physically -- I had no problem plugging it into the phone. But where does it appear to the software? where is it in /dev? Is it automatically mounted at boot time? What's the mountpoint? Foolish question, I know... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Where's the Micro-SD?
it mounts on /media/card if it has a supported filesystem (fat/ext2) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: US: T-Mobile plans
On 7/30/07, Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dan Trevino writes: I have their $5.99 internet plan working with my unsupported Treo 680. After reading the posts to howardforums (thanks Adam!), I have to ask: when you say it's working, does that mean you can go to an arbitrary URL and see what's there? The only difference between T-Mobile Web and T-Mobile Internet on the phone is that T-Mobile Internet allows VPN while T-Mobile Web doesn't. You can access any arbitrary html or wap site on your phone with both plans. I've been using the cheaper plan since their t-zones unlimited days and haven't had any problems getting online. Tethering should also work with T-Mobile Web. All the info you need to set it up here if you haven't found it already: http://support.t-mobile.com/knowbase/root/public/tm21625.htm? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What is the FCC ID of the neo1973?
Jeff Rush wrote: Adam Krikstone wrote: I see no mention of it anywhere on the wiki or lists. Does anyone know the FCC ID? I'm curious of what use that information is -- does the registration point to information at the FCC that says something about the functioning of the phone? Are you worried that it is an illegal phone? -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community You can find the FCC ID behind the battery on the sticker with the Model Name, Serial Number, etc. -Cassj ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What is the FCC ID of the neo1973?
Just curious. It will give info like SAR and other testing information like the upcoming Nokia E90 here: http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/fcc_query.php?gc=PYApc=RA-6 I was more curious about the draft consumer documentation/manual that they submitted or lack their of. When it does get approved I would guess it will go live here: http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/fcc_query.php?gc=EUNpc=GTA01BV4 or http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/fcc_query.php?gc=EUNpc=GTA02 Jeff Rush wrote: Adam Krikstone wrote: I see no mention of it anywhere on the wiki or lists. Does anyone know the FCC ID? I'm curious of what use that information is -- does the registration point to information at the FCC that says something about the functioning of the phone? Are you worried that it is an illegal phone? -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: US: T-Mobile plans
Nkoli writes: The only difference between T-Mobile Web and T-Mobile Internet on the phone is that T-Mobile Internet allows VPN while T-Mobile Web doesn't. You can access any arbitrary html or wap site on your phone with both plans. I've been using the cheaper plan since their t-zones unlimited days and haven't had any problems getting online. Tethering should also work with T-Mobile Web. Many, many thanks. This is *exactly* what I was looking for. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
